Johannes Radebe

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1:05Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and we are in New Cross today. Lenny's looking particularly zen. Zen? Well, I've had... And I'm a bit flappy, aren't I? I've had a lovely time recently. Have you? Tell me why. Well, last night, I went to the opening night of Plaza Suite. Mum, you're essentially like an influencer now. No, I'm not an influencer. A lovely influencer. No, I'm not. SJP inviting you to the opening it was fabulous everyone was there that you wanted to be there Bill Nighy Samantha Bond, Miss Moneypenny from James Bond Russell Tovey, your mate Jake our mate Jake I sat next to Mo Gilligan lovely, did you have a chat?

1:54no I didn't but the highlight of the night was meeting Anthony or Anthony? Shaw! Anthony, we're talking about as the character in... Mario Falcone. The character in Sex and City and just like that. Yeah. How was that for you, Mum? You were getting closer. He gave me a hug. I didn't get that close to SJP even though I went to the after party. Did you see her? No. Oh. I left before she came. It was... There must have been 500 people there. Wow. It was very exciting. You are booked and busy, Lenny. Susan Hampshire, Martin Freeman, fabulous. Sheridan Smith. Great. Yeah. And the beautiful Hannah Waddingham who looked magnificent in a fabulous blue suit.

2:37Did you get up to her? No. I did look at her and watch her and champagne in tumblers because they had run out of champagne glasses. How did that make you feel? So I said I'll have a tumbler darling fill it up.

2:53That sounds great. So yeah today we have somebody that we both adore well i've adored him since i first saw him dance he must have the best latin technique i've ever seen surely yeah oh arlene phillips was there as well oh my god mom she looked great you know she's bloody 81 or 82 she looks like in her 60s she looked fat um we have johannes rodibe on the podcast can't wait i was very lucky to do the opening of strictly this last year and And Johannes danced in that. And for me, that was so special. And I loved meeting him. He has a book called Jojo Finally Home that came out last year, all about growing up in South Africa and his journey into dancing and being a gay man.

3:44He also has a tour happening. The show is called House of Jojo, and it's going everywhere from High Wycombe to Liverpool. Well, where are we going, darling? London Palladium. I can just imagine how fabulous it's going to be. Well, he is a totally fabulous person. Yes, he is. And I've got lots of questions for him about Strictly. Yeah, me too. He had such a good year. The most memorable was him dancing with John Waite, doing the Paso Doble. That was fantastic. Was that when they were like Pirates of the Caribbean? Yeah. That was really good. I just loved that. And they kind of threw it. They flew literally through.

4:21If I was ever going to be on Strictly, I would want him. Yeah, me too. I'm cooking. um so i made it last night um i've done it before on the podcast a couple of times just because it's easier and i've been away for the weekend so i did the jamie oliver pooled brisket like chili and i'm not going to serve it with rice today i've got corn tortillas like tacos great and i've done a thomasina myers you know the bean and mango yeah um lime and spring onion and tomato thing um and then also i've done a coleslaw with red cabbage spring onions i'm quite into putting spring onions in instead of onion i think it's kind of a bit less oomphy which i like carrot apple a little bit of chipotle tabasco and some lime and yogurt i used and a bit of mayo so Not too hot.

5:17Not too hot. Okay. And then you've done pudding. Well, thanks to Maria Barker, who I tasted this recipe at her house. So it's, I hate the description of it, it's a moist orange cake. Oh, you're very... It's made with a pulp of two oranges and just ground almonds, eggs and sugar. The topping's genius. It's cream cheese with some cream, grated orange and lemon zest and some lemon juice. So they call it a cheesecake topping. So it's kind of like a carrot cake topping? No, it's more like a cheesecake topping because it's very citrusy. Well, you'll try it. I thought it was fabulous. Yum. Johanna's coming up.

6:08Cheers. Now, what do they say in South Africa for a cheers? Not even, you know, there's no word. In African language, no, there isn't. Oh, what a shame. What does Jojo say then? You see? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, darling. What's that mean? Let's go. Oh, wow. Because you know once you have this. Oh, darling. Oh. Is there anything better than a glass of champagne at lunchtime? A bolly. A bolly. Nothing better. At lunchtime. so promo's over now have you been busy this morning i haven't been busy this morning well i woke up thinking about you two and i know you do i i can see you give the eyes and you make every woman and man feel special special yeah you do and like you're devoted to them why shouldn't we in this world that's no very good good answer very good answer do you know what i mean i'm calling you Jojo now that's it because when I when I was at Strictly and we were doing our dance together which I requested you but I think you kind of you know did you I did when I saw the powers that be ascend I was like okay something is happening but they will never do this if the artist herself or himself did not request for this to happen yeah obviously I requested Jojo You know what is mad about it all?

7:332020 in lockdown, I was introduced to you. Oh, thanks. And by fluke. I thought I'm not coming back to the United Kingdom. Why? I thought that was, no, because of the whole flying thing. Right, okay. I was stuck in South Africa. Where were you? Okay. I was stuck in South Africa for something that felt like forever, but it was only five months. But as you can imagine, it was 2020. Like, I just thought, even Stickley said, we don't know how we're going to get through here, and the show might not even go on. So I thought that's the end of our careers, as you know it. I've just started off. I am at home feeling quite depressed.

8:05My friend said, I've got baby weight on. Let's get into the studio and dance. We were not allowed to go into any government facilities. So we found a hostel, cleaned the floor up, started playing music. We danced. And at the end of the session, she said, I just want to take it easy. You've hammered me the whole day. And I was like, OK, fine. You know, Kylie. Kylie will sort us out. let's just swing about and do what we need to do. And on the playlist, just under Kylie, and it was just a random playlist, was this beautiful woman. Oh, the algorithms. We love an algorithm where I am next to Kylie Minogue.

8:41You know, so you can imagine when I say this introduction happened organically. Of course. No finger was lifted. So I even, I said to my mom, coming here today is quite special because this is what dreams are made of. And I really do believe... Yeah, my dreams. Not yours. Forget about yours, Jojo. Oh, you know. I mean, when I said to my friend, I said, Jessie where is in the building, Mahaut? She lost her mind. She was like, no. I said, I'm going to send you a vid of the rehearsal. I can't tell you. Thank you for her. Oh, that's a pleasure. Absolutely. Yeah. She wouldn't be the person she is if it wasn't for you.

9:27so thank you I love mothers I'm going to start to cry stop we haven't even got the music going there I love and I support mothers I can't tell you so the reason why you're fabulous is because I know you're standing on shoulders of a queen absolutely but you mean the world to some of us thank you well you mean the world to me and I so appreciate you I've been dying to say that to you for years even when you send me a message on Strictly I was like, you know what? Glitter balls, stand aside, I'm fine. Listen, when you and John didn't win, you did so well that year. We were talking about that year being a brilliant year.

10:07You know the Pirates dance? But we were reaching for you. Was that the Paso Doble? Yes. Yeah, that's what I said. Thank God I got it right. You were brilliant. You flew. Both of you flew. It was fabulous. It was magical. Absolute magic. Yeah. Life-changing. Yeah, I think it was. For everybody in our lives. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the beauty about it all. You know, I kept on thinking, oh my gosh, I didn't realize the impact it would have in my circle, within my family. So when I tell you that I'm in a better place with my family right now because of that. Well, because, firstly, I've never ever discussed my sexuality with my family.

10:49I come from a very conservative family. We're a Zulu family. You know, when my uncle's talk is that to say a man is a man and a woman is a woman. so you can imagine how it has been in my life to try and you know, and exist in two worlds, so to speak I always say that Strictly has given me that, Strictly was my coming out party when I put on those Peyton Hills and danced to David Bowie that was me saying this is me, take it or leave it and that's... So your family didn't know? No, not at all No, they must have known They knew, I mean disgusting you know i mean you can't be twirling around the house at the age of four and five and and not know and the thing and my dolls and that's the thing it that was never hidden and i always say in the house with my mom with my dad with my sister and my granny at the time who i was was never frowned upon or called out or anything of that sort so i know i grew up thinking i was perfect until I went out into society you know that's when I was reminded and told and obviously extended families as well I mean my uncles used to ask me when are you bringing the wife you know what was your stock answer in due time okay yeah you know what I mean you know I was like not now and when I started with television and I started earning money it was like, we can find you somebody, have children, we'll look after them.

12:18And I said, oh no, I don't think you guys are okay. Go and deal with that. And that is why I think I really tried to move as far away from that world as possible. Is this your home now? This is my home now. Are you British yet? I've just done my Britishness test. How British are you? You know, you see how British I am. I was shocked. I was shocked at what I had to go through to get What were some of the questions? How do you take your tea? No, none of that No, they should be asking who won Strictly last year That would be a good one It's a British thing It definitely is I mean, what took me by surprise was learning about Huggies Huggies?

13:01Yes Huggies? That's Scottish Oh, I suppose it's British It is Did you know what went in Huggies? That is the thing I was quite surprised as an African boy Because I enjoy tripe Oh, does tripe go in as well? No, it doesn't. It's like meaty muesli, isn't it? Really. It's like cereal and all the bits that go in there. I was like, oh, okay. No. I wanted to know, what a strange thing to ask what goes in purpose. Were there any more food-related questions? No, I think that's just basically it. What is England? What is Scotland? Northern Ireland? Wales? what do they eat and everybody has got like i mean fish and chips of fish and chips you know what's your favorite food about britain that you think was a revelation and you thought this is quite delicious and i didn't think i'd like it because the food in south africa is brilliant it's quite similar isn't it as well you know your meats and your king clip and your butter all of those lovely fishes that you don't get here yeah true you can say that again you can say that again British food and your meat is great it is that it's that it tastes different to here let's be honest I don't know what something else when you do when you do your porky course with that you know I remember I was working in Johannesburg doing what my real job is which is social work and I stayed at the Rosewood Hotel in Johannesburg and opposite in this little shopping mall was this fabulous chop house and it had the best lamb chops I think I've ever tasted in my whole life.

14:40And wine. The wine is divine. The wine is so divine. it's so, you know, answering all these questions, I'm such a late bloomer and I literally, I grew up with local cuisines. So what did your mum make? What was your, what would your mum make on a Monday evening or a Tuesday evening or the weekend? You know what? We've got what we call, it's a staple food for every African family in South Africa. Pap. Pap. Pap. Thick polenta. Think of thick polenta. Now that is every single day. And I don't, you know, sometimes I look back and I'm like, oh my gosh, we could have had a little bit of variety, isn't it?

15:18But Zuba was an issue. It fills you up? Beautifully. And then do you put like a sauce on top or a soup? Yes, we do. You will do a gravy with it. You'll do a piece of meat if you can afford. But it can accommodate anything. Chaka laka, which is just like your carrots, your green peppers, spices. baked beans, put in a thing just for a little bit of taste, and just paprika, salt, and you have that with pap. Cabbage is very famous. I know that mum used to get bones from anyway, from whatever animal that they've slaughtered at the butchers. They buy the remains of that, and they put it in the pot, and they make a nice stew that will go with the pap.

16:02Did you love your mum's cooking? I absolutely did. I absolutely did. Now, knowing what I know, I think it was quite bland. But it's obviously what she... She is paprika. Well, you say paprika. That was the few things. And I think she also learned it from where she used to work. Where did she work? She cleaned at this. And lucky for her, she found a job at a garage. You know, it was in somebody's home or so. But that family took her in as well, you know. And so it was nice because she would come back with all these spices. from this family because she was a Portuguese lady. And that's, I think, that's how the paprika thing came into the family because, I mean, even my cousins now, I'm like, what do they ask?

16:45What is that? I mean, I'm like, it makes it nicer. Do you like hot food? Spicy? I always say I'm an African child. I eat everything. And that's the truth. And I think that's also because I've lived everywhere and nowhere, you know. So whatever was on the table or whatever I could afford, I shoved in my mouth. so I eat anything. How many were in your family? There was my sister, my mum, dad, gran. That was us. Gran passed away. Mum and dad separated. Me, mum and sis moved in with my aunt who had two boys. So it was always a big table. There was no table. Okay. This is the thing. There was no table.

17:31And I wish that we could have had that in my family. We could have been at the table and enjoyed a meal. firstly because of the status at home dad was never at home in time to enjoy dinner with us so i've never and we never used to have a table so we'll sit in the lounge and that's the thing you know it's either we had to wait for him with mini meal or bring a little bit of piece a piece of meat so we used to eat at random times there was never a set time too and it was only when i left my family in the township to go live with this family outside in johannesburg south of How old were you? I was 14.

18:08Why did you move to live with another family? To further my dancing. Okay. Yeah. So it was obvious that that was going to be the direction. Oh, listen. I had to convince everybody that that's what's going to happen. Because you can imagine, mum was like, no way. Do a proper job. She was hoping that I could be a doctor or a nurse. Obviously. Was that ever on the cards? It was. Yeah? It was. Even through the dancing. Like I went to school, university, after I finished secondary schooling, I went to university and I tried nursing, never worked. I tried clothing and interior, never worked. And all because of finance, you know.

18:45And then I dropped that and I just said, okay, fine, ma, I'm going to try and make this dancing thing work. When did you first start dancing, when you were little? At the age of seven. What was the song that got you moving? It definitely has to be Twist and Shout. oh I thought you were going to say Miriam Makiwa well listen she as well Pata Pata it's probably one of my favourite songs but I remember hearing Twist and Shout in a recreation hall in Bupilong and first time I went to a dance competition actually I think that was for me the aha moment I was watching the high section of the evening there was no professional dancers but they were amateur because nobody black was allowed to be professional at the time you know from where we were and that association that we were with so when I saw this amateurs dance the song it was something electric like you should have you must see how there's just this different interpretation right and because we were not trained you know it came from a different place altogether because we were it was more of we aspired to be and I can't tell you oh shake it people were it I was just like this is what I want to do for the rest of my life I want to be this happy you know what I mean and that's why I snuck it out so you were seven when that happened yeah and black people weren't allowed to compete so when did that change how old were you when that changed because when you're 14 you're saying I want to go and be a dancer absolutely I think that I think I went to dance in a different federation at the age of 10 11 and were they allowed interracial that is when it really took off so you were allowed to dance white people were dancing with indians mixed ways we were all there and how was that feeling at that time was it unnerving for you at that time because did you feel wanted or did you feel like the person that everybody wanted because you were of course so talented but it felt new and and and positive and change was coming?

20:57It was a place of refuge. Right, okay. You know what I mean? Was there kindness to you? There was a lot, there was lots of kindness. I made friends. I made, you know, and like you're saying, I felt seen. Yeah. You know, because outside that, I was bullied, severely bullied. You know, I hated school with all my heart. How could someone, you're so tall. I was short. You were short. I was short. Johannes, when did you... I don't know where... And the reason why I even left my township to go to Johannesburg was because my partner was starting to be taller than me and they were like, well, we've got somebody who's your height and who can match you.

21:36Come. And that's why they poached me as well from this beautiful girl. But something happened in my teens and I just shot right up. What height are you now? 6 '2". You seem taller, actually. He's got heels on that, Mum. I've got a couple of years. It's got a heel on. That clearly is the key to everything and a beautiful hat. How do you say that, ma? That is a gorgeous hat. Thank you. A friend of mine makes them so, you know. It is incredible. When I'm missing them, I do throw something on me. You were obviously doing ballroom for me. I was doing ballroom dancing. Latin or ballroom? Latin. That was your...

22:13Latin was my thing. You've got the bottom for it, darling. You say that, my darling. The best bottom in the business, I think. Listen, something about Latin American dancing, I think, you know, I mean, all of those dancers do originate from Africa, you know, it's the drums. It's the, and that's what got me about it. Whereas ballroom was quite ethereal, you know, it simply said, you don't belong. And honestly, like, you know, the Latin outfits, you could, you can literally take a piece of material and throw your mother's brooch, you know, and make something that looks and walk onto the dance floor with it.

22:49Whereas with ballroom, soups and... Exactly. And that is why I did not pursue my ballroom as much as I did my Latin. But your ballroom's fabulous. It is the most beautiful thing. But you made Annabelle Croft. She became a princess in your arms. Yeah. She did. Oh, my God. And a great dancer. You know what blows my mind is the fact that you guys watch Strictly come dancing religiously. Oh, we never miss it. It's so... I've never missed it since the beginning. We love it. It's our favourite. It's our favourite. That blows my mind. I don't want to tell lies. A mere dance show to have such an impact.

23:23But it's more than a dance show. It honestly is. But when you look at it from my perspective, darling, never in my wildest dreams did I ever think. But you know what? It starts off and you think, oh, I don't think much of these people. Then you fall in love with all of them. And every one of them you feel connected with. Absolutely. Well, how is it? How does it do that? You know what? The way I look, the format is brilliant. the amount of time I've spent with Annabelle I haven't spent with my sister in the past 10 years she's that's the reality it's intense it's intense yeah Jesse it's intense it's bad well I have a question for you because you're beloved and celebrated as a uh uh you know you could see the relationship you and Annabelle had you and John had you know this is like it was it was friendship it was real you know when you was dancing for her her late husband that was so beautiful and like you you were feeling it we all were feeling it but it's interesting because how much do you have to be the friend but also the coach that you're trying to push them and you're not trying to intimidate them there must be a fine line with how far you can take it or do you've kind of just do you think that's just from understanding the contestant you have and their potential because I think that's the most important thing yeah you know well that's a great dancers and some of us are great teachers yeah I think that's true I think I've done it long enough to understand that it's not about me yeah yes yes I've got an opportunity to come back next year she doesn't or he doesn't yeah it's true you know and when you take it from that perspective you really you really thrive you know when you take yourself out of the equation as a pro I always think watch them fly everybody needs encouragement that's the first thing that I start with and dancing itself has the power to transform somebody I always say anybody can dance if they were afforded those 13-14 weeks everybody you would see miracles you look at somebody like Krishna I mean I adored him when he walked in I know because I came to the launch party and I thought, I looked at him and I thought, but he was so smiley and he loved it loved every minute of it and I've watched clips of him on tour and he's still adoring every second and that's what's needed do you have a little team of your best mates and who do you practice with who's your dance partner for practicing or does it change all the time Because Nadia's very tall.

26:06She is. So you often are partnered with her. No, we dance with everybody. No. No, but she needs a tall person. She does. Yeah. She does, but there's been instances where she's danced with Gorka. Really? We love Gorka. We love Gorka. So hamptured. Gorka is a realist. I tell you. I have to say, they're all individuals, aren't they? Yes. We all are. Look at me. I'm going to ask you about babuti. Does anyone ever eat that in South Africa? They say it's like a dish that everyone eats in South Africa. Yes. Do they? Not everyone. Not where I come from. And you're a Zulu? And I'm a Zulu boy. So do you speak what language?

26:54I speak Sosotu. That's not click talk, is it? That's not click talk. Can you do the click talk?

27:03yep yep yep yep yep that that repertoire of music i've actually brought into my tour good for the past two years and what's been interesting is that you you talk about miriam mckeba and that's just my favorite oh listen i can't tell you when i was 18 that was the music i was dancing to in discos oh patta patta with a gorgeous boy called soul and we moved to patta patta it was my favorite Thank you. Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change, you really only need one good reason.

28:11But with Zinn Nicotine Pouches, you'll discover many good reasons. Zinn is America's number one nicotine pouch brand. Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction. But there's only one Zinn. Check out zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical.

28:41Oh my goodness, this looks delicious. I could never. It's like pulled brisket, chili with bits and bobs. So that's what you have. Oh my gosh. Honestly. Jessie, pass me a tortilla, darling. These are corn tortillas. They're like from a really great place. It's called the Chili Company or whatever. The Cool Chili Company. But they're like corn tortillas. So slightly more kind of authentic taco tortillas. So, but like, you know, take it or leave it. It's fine. You can just try it. If you don't like it, I won't be offended. I didn't make them. It's fine. Okay. Just shove it all in. They smell divine.

29:12Good. Fine. Great. The corn is coming through. Mmm. There. You haven't got any meat. Oh my God. Here, darling. This is divine. Thank you. Thank you for this. Such a pleasure. Thank you, Jessie. Can you cook? You know what? Jessy. No. I get the feeling not Jessy. I shouldn't have gone to Celebrity MasterChef. I don't know what was I trying to achieve. How badly did you do? Not bad, seeing that I was not the first one to kick it out. Okay, that's fine. So, I mean, my agent said to me, well, Jo, sometimes it's not about winning. It's about taking part, isn't it? But is that quite hard for you to not win?

29:47Yes. And that is what I was arguing to. I was like, I'm not going to win. He's like, it's all about winning. Just take part, you know, push yourself. Do you really hope to win Strictly? You will. I kind of feel like you win it every year in a way. Do you know what I mean? Your stories that you have both. Yeah. It's a beautiful journey that you create with your contestants. Thank you, G. But we would like the fucking ball. Give them the damn ball. Listen, I've made peace with it. You know, I really, really have. Something that I haven't given up on, I'm talking rubbish. Because it would be lovely, I think, after all these years of never winning it.

30:23I've done it in South Africa for three years before I came here. And you never won it then? And I've never won it. You talk about that community that you had at the beginning of your career, your dance career. It was your sanctuary. But you're always in competition. So I've met plenty of dancers that give me the DL on various tours. There are dramas. Dancers have dramas. Oh, baby.

30:53How do you deal with that? Because it's like anything. It's like creatives and being intense, you know, whether it's a tour or competition. It's like, can it sometimes get a bit too much? Or do you know how to avoid the drama now? Are you there with your cup of tea? I'm there with my cup of tea.

31:14Of course you love the drama. I am there with a cup of... Hot tea. Hot, hot, hot tea. because I always find it so interesting what you're saying and I'm so observant and thank god this came to me at a very young age you know having to deal with different people and different personalities and finding myself in different communities I think that really taught me a lot so when I eventually got my break and I was traveling the world with world-class dancers that had titles British Championships Italian Champs and here comes Johannes with his South african champion i'm like oh jesus china this is not even a world title fine but i always understood that and just thought to myself be the hardest working one in this room also just given my it's just that has been my motto and say i was like you know that the odds against you and i've always been the first black one in everything that i did that was amazing so to speak so the pressure of having to keep up has allowed me to firstly be kind to myself in that situation I always say to myself just step back a little bit let the divas do their thing and that I always find worked for me to say that you know what make space but ultimately put on the music and let's dance if we get to the job of it let's just let's do the job because we can walk away from it after we are done with it, that always always centred me, that I can walk away from it whenever it gets too much.

32:49So therefore, I remove... I think you've got a very calm presence, don't you think? I think Jojo can turn it on and off and we'd have a good night out and still turn up for work professionally on the next day. Absolutely. The thing that blew my mind, when you came in for a cuddle and I was like, sorry, you smoke? I was like so I didn't think dancers smoked and you had like a power fag before we'd done the bloody run free and I was just like and you're still the fastest you're still the most like it's like it blew my mind how many dancers smoke a lot I bet a lot do you smoke more when you're doing strictly yeah right okay you know that I'm weaning myself off it right now because I'm like, you're not stressed.

33:41Why are you smoking so much, you know? But it's a lot, isn't it? Of course. It's a lot. And I think, honestly, thank goodness for where I come from because my sister, you know, people like that have always just, they call me to order every time I grow wings. They're like, ah, ah, ah. I think your wings can get bigger and bigger and you can fly higher and higher. I'm going to come to your meal now. Starter, where are we going? Starter. Who's cooking it? where are we going? It's not going to be you cooking it, is it? It definitely is not going to be me cooking it. Do you eat out a lot? Or takeaways?

34:17This country has spoiled me. It has really, really spoiled me. Who spoils you the most on delivery? I mean, there's a place called Spoon and Rice. Spoon and Rice, never heard of it. Filipinos. Oh. Is it amazing? They are pork burritos with a sweet and sour sauce. It's like bringing a tear to your eye, Nelly. I can't even begin to tell you. I'm scared to confess that ever since I've discovered it, I've had it every day since then. And I'm talking about 2021. Stop. Jesus. I've got a relationship with them. I hope they're giving you a discount, babe. They definitely are. I walk into the kitchen to fetch my order.

35:04So you are a creature of habit. and routine. It is terrible. And do they love you? Yeah, I bet they bloody do. He's been bloody keeping them in business for the last two years. They've got my money. They have all my money. I can't begin to tell you. And it's not only that. And that's the beautiful thing about it. I live next to a box park. And you guys know what that is. So I'm quite... Lots of things. I have. You know, it's a variety of things. Was that burrito going on the last supper? That burrito is definitely going into the last... Is it the starter? Or is it the main? I think it should be the main.

35:39Oh, wow, you love it that much. Absolutely. I've recommended it to everybody that I know, everybody that comes and visits. I take them there. But there's also a beautiful place that makes curries around the corner, and it's an unknown. I normally jump onto the train, two stops Baker Street. There I am in front of the Hellenic Centre. There's an Indian place at the corner. Right. What's your order there? The chicken korma. Uh-huh. with naan bread. What kind of naan bread? Are you going pesciaro? Jesse. Are you so happy? I can't. That is the thing. And they also put me in a corner where I can have my fag and a heater.

36:22Stop, cotton. Stop. Do you know who's actually got cotton? Oh my God, I'm obsessed. I am, you know. So, I'm obsessed. So, okay, we're having a korma and we're having a burrito. Spoon and rice and then this place, two stops, what's it called? This Indian place. Do you want to tell everyone the name? No. It's a special one. It's a special place. You don't want everyone to take your smoking spot. Because people might find me there on an odd day. Okay, so we've got the two mains. Are you going korma starter or are we going korma and burrito for main? With the fag. Love you. It's just, your body is irritatingly divine.

37:02And you're there having kormas and burritos and smoking. It's just not fair I know and I know it's going to stop at some point Darling you've got to let him eat Yeah you need to eat Eat some food We have not finished the last hour No and I want to know if Annabelle's cooked for you Yes Good cook Amazing cook She's an all rounder that girl You know what I mean When I tell you that I've never gone hungry with that woman She's a feeder just got three kids and they're all grown they're gorgeous children beautiful yeah and when your kids sing your praises ma you know that you've done your job isn't it what i found incredible was the fact that they're not they're not young they're not young anymore but they seemed to to care so much about what their mom was going through as if they were not going through with themselves that used to hit me hard and i know that their mother was also aware of the fact that she's crying and her kids needs comfort as well it's quite raw though it's not long it's not even a year yet when they said i'm dancing with her i was like what are they trying to achieve and i say that because two weeks before i started i buried my cousin who committed suicide oh i'm sorry so i didn't feel like honestly i didn't feel like anything you know i wasn't excited as i normally would be because I was like this is supposed to be the most exciting period I've just come back off a very successful tour but you know I had to then go home and I went home to go sort out my credit cards and my my driver's license because I was like I don't want to come back and have a struggle and he did that and I could have stayed out there for longer but after we buried him I had to fly back and do my audio book that was hard and when Strictly started I was just like okay just felt like I was going through the motions so you can imagine when they said oh you you know he had the partners I was like okay great I just really wanted to deal with it but you never allowed the time to deal with whatever it is you're going through in your life for that however long it's on that's the truth and yeah they said Johannes we think that you're the person to partner this woman.

39:22And I just thought to myself, they're reaching. They really are. I remember calling my agent. I was like, I don't know what's trying to happen. Maybe we should say that I shouldn't get a partner this year because I just really need some time out. Did you know her story, her backstory? I read, as soon as they're announced, I pull up my phone, Google, and I do my research, you know. The people that I spoke to, they were like, you need to dance with Annabelle. we know we know we know her you know and I was just like do you think it was because of your mindset because you were still grieving and because you weren't it was then did they know about your cousin I did I did mention it I did mention it but she but she's so so you needed each other but she's yeah maybe it was and that is the thing I mean a lot of people say oh Johannes you helped Annabelle no Annabelle helped me I want to talk about the book because I feel like you're incredibly open and generous with your words yeah And you confide so beautifully.

40:20But you also are a private person. You don't want people to know the curry places that you go to. You need that separation. So why did you decide to do Jojo, the book, A Finding Home? Because there's no life-affirming stories for my nieces and my nephews. None. Absolutely none. People that look like them don't go off to do great things. Do you see what I mean? My agent said to me, Johannes, I think you should write a book. And I said, oh, stop. I'm too young. What am I going to say? And it was at the back of coming back from Buckingham Palace and meeting there, the king. And how that came about.

41:04How did that come about? Oh, don't even ask, yes, because we're still trying to figure it out. I can't even tell you. My agent just called them up and said, I want Johannes to come to the state banquet. and they were like oh we would love to have him so but that was because I was there prior with you know so people I've been to the Buckingham Palace before but I haven't been inside Buckingham Palace I was outside yes I did walk through do you know something like how it came about was the fact that he he the king no oh your agent my agent just thought is this your agent here this is my agent here and hi he and just thought I'm going to call these people for the second time and say why is Johannes not invited to this event oh hon hon I got you the invite oh my god we were invited good agent we were invited earlier by the L of Essex he invited me for the Duke of Edinburgh Award to come give a keynote speech to 3000 people not students but participate how did you find that?

42:00that was nerve wracking yeah but what was beautiful was that I got to take my mum away so my mum is obsessed with a monarchy she's obsessed with a monarchy she is obsessed she didn't have a hat on I said by me nobody's going to mind I don't think everybody's going to have a hat it's a garden party, just chill but I've got a Victoria Beckham should have seen her have you got a picture? yes I do, I do I'll show you did she have a good time? she had an amazing time even though you know my mum I can't I'm like girl, you forget where we come from but she was looking at the mugs my agent was telling me you could see the thought process why is there plastic mugs?

42:40oh my god Why were the plastic much? Why were the plastic much? We should be fine China. We're paying our taxes for plastic. There were 3 ,000 people and I think they were going to take out the best of the best. Do you know what I mean? I could hire them. That is iconic. Plastic. I think my mum was just like, what is going on? I would be saying the same. She is a queen. Shall I go and sort out the cake? What were the snacks like? Oh my gosh, what's the snacks? I don't even remember eating. Just remember the plastic bags. I remember there was biscuits. Sorry, my darling. Just going to filter out the cake.

43:13Okay. Oh, my gosh, there's cake. Yeah. Have you got a sweet tooth? Gosh, I do. That brings me to your dessert for your last supper. What would the dessert be? There's something that we call a quick sister in South Africa. A quick sister? A cook. A cook sister. A cook sister. Cook is a cake. Okay. But it is dough. Yeah. You plate it. Uh-huh. You fry it. Oh, yeah. You dunk it in syrup or honey. Mm. And once it comes out as hot as it is, you just throw coconut on it. It's the most divine thing. And of course, my mum was like, that's just pure sugar. You might as well just drink cellulite. But that takes me back to my childhood.

43:54Would you say that's a nostalgic taste? It's a nostalgic. I can't even begin to tell you. The minute you smell it, because I think it was done in each and every household. So you would walk and it would just smell that syrup. Was there a particular day that people made it? Sunday. Okay. Sunday morning, we had to go fetch the cook sisters. And because, at the time I was living with his family, and they were a mixed race family, you know, whereas, and of course, different cultures, different traditions, especially when it came to food, they used to do all kinds. And that's where they trained my palate.

44:27Was that a positive experience for you? It was a very beautiful experience. Because like I said, I was introduced to everything else. Are you still in touch with them? I am. I am. I've wrote about them in the book. they're my dance parents you know they i call them that and they have nurtured me i can't tell you sometimes i just wish i could win the lottery you know just and just i don't know and do and do and do what they and get just make sure that they're comfortable in life you know i just got my mom my medical health insurance i wish i could do that for them as well you know i i just don't have enough money but it's it will it will come you're you're on the rise you're gonna be it's gonna be fine yeah so that would be your pudding that would be your dessert that would be my pudding what would be your drink of choice i always like i said you guys have spoiled me i've learned new things i have to say but i'm a jack and coke boy jack and coke oh my goodness you can imagine my secondary school in that school i mean you had we had to fundraise for that jack we had to do a couple of things and wash cars.

45:31Okay. To get a bottle of Jack Daniels as a young... I know. And I was not a big drinker and I never was. But then ever since I've come here and I've gone to nice places where they make all kinds of drinks. I absolutely love a Ponce D 'Amatoini. Oh, I am... There's this place in Wembley that makes really nice ones. It's called Escapada. Escapada. They're very sweet. They are. Sweet too. I mean, my teeth are hurting. You're just thinking about it. It's the passion fruit syrup, isn't it? And it can't be done without the passion fruit syrup. No. And the vanilla vodka. Do you love it? Do you think you could get good at making cocktails at home?

46:09I definitely could, you know. I believe in you. Definitely could. I have to say, though, like you said, I'm such a private person. I really am. Very rarely that I would host or bring people around. You know, very few people know where I live. Do you like your own company? I do. I've learned to understand that I won't have drama to deal with. I guess because being a dancer, and particularly the way that you dance, you know, you're in pairs. You dance with other, not even just pairs, groups. All of it. Oh, mum, yes. Oh, my goodness. Start with that. You can have more. It's cream. It's cream and it's like a citrusy...

46:50With all my heart. With all my heart, yeah. See what you think? I think it's delicious. Start. Do it. Yeah. Thank you, Mum. Oh, this looks great. What do you think? Okay, so we have... Is it good? Are you happy? I am floating. See what you think. Okay, let's see. Oh, my gosh. Okay, let's see. Oh, it's good, Lenny. Yeah. Oh, you've done yourself proud there. It's divine, Mum. That's good. That is good, Mum. Excuse me, how moist? Now, before we let you go and do more promotions let's talk about yeah the tour that your mum is coming over for it's a big old tour it is just you're going everywhere from the clan yeah i mean it is listen and the house how many is in the house the house of jojo how many are in your house there is 12 of them two singers and 10 dancers and i'm happy to announce that one is the x on the S-Factor.

47:54Yeah. Okay. They're soon to be announced. But three years ago when I started off, Jessie, I had to go to Freedom to seek out a singer. And I was like, give me any black woman who belts out those numbers at 12 o 'clock at night making all the gays happy. Send her my way. And funny story, I did find one who was from South Africa and that was her gigging every single night. And I said, would you like to do a tour? And she went on. And Elisa, I can't tell you how I've been, you know. That's so lovely. It's the most beautiful thing because that is what House of Jojo is. You've been doing it for a while, right?

48:32I have, I have. I started off as Freedom after John. I thought this is the best time to go on tour, you know, because people wanted to see me. People wanted to see John. Did John come? He did. I wanted him to do it with me. Thank goodness that I did it then. because honestly it has given me an opportunity to dance to my own tune. Yeah, I mean, it's a brand. It's your house. It is, because I think it has also been a dream of mine to honestly have something I could call my own and tell my own narrative on things. I think I've been dancing to people's music. I don't think people even knew about Miriam McKay.

49:17You have to be over 17. Do you dance? I dance to all African music. I dance everything. You know, I bring the singers from South Africa to sing in the language. You must have the best national anthem of any country in the whole world. It makes me cry. Do you cry? Oh, my God. Zikolone Africa. Oh, my God. If you ever hear it, especially, do you remember when you had those children, the choir, we had little girls staying from the South African choir, and they stayed and they sang it for us. And every night I'd say, sing it for me. and they'd sing in the garden and sing, yeah. They'd go in the garden and sing, didn't they?

49:55Your mum is so well-versed, isn't it? Just gorgeous. She is well-versed. It was just so beautiful. I want to ask you, have you ever tried Peck's anchovet? No, Mum. Okay, they made it in South Africa and they've discontinued it. She was hoping your mum could bring some over. And then I heard that they were going to start it again in pick and pay, you could buy it. So maybe I'll ask your mum to bring some over. It's an anchovet spread. It's anchovies spread. And it's a South African spread. It's only made in South Africa by this company called Pex. And one year I bought so much back, I had to pay£200 in excess baggage because I bought half kilo jars of it back and I thought, I'll bring 20.

50:38And I got 20 kilos. So if your mum could do us a favor, bring some Pex and Travert. Johannes, you've been such... Well, we knew you would be, but it's just such a pleasure to sit and eat with you. What's your question? Karaoke. Do you sing? Well, let me be honest. I've just heard my first voice. Yeah. Lesson? My singing lesson, yeah. He's going on the Western. That's it. Yeah, absolutely. I needed somebody to say to me, somebody with expertise to say to me. Who's your teacher? Her name is Jo. Jo who? Jo Thompson. Jo Thompson. She was my singing teacher. Stop. Sweet Joe and he's... Sweet Joe. And an acting.

51:22And an acting. Oh, my God. I love her. Oh, really. She's lovely. She was encouraging, isn't it, Jess? She's amazing. And that is the thing. Also, she's not, like, over the top. She just kind of plays the chords, and I love her. She comes to my game. Does she think you can sing? That's what she said when I walked out. She said to me, well, you know the baritone, you're definitely a turner. Oh! And that was the lovely thing. I thought, that's the thing. I was like, you know what, Jesus? I found my girl. The show Thompson's amazing. She said, come in, this is my house. We were at tea. I said, okay, we sat down, we had a chat.

51:55She said, let's walk into the small room. She said, relax. She said, you're a dancer, throw your arms about you and your hips about. And while you do that, sing. I can't tell you, I had the most beautiful day. She's a good woman. Beautiful day. Okay, so what's your karaoke song? Who do you see yourself, if you could be anyone singing? We're thinking about this one. I am, because... You're not Whitney. Are you Whitney? Somebody that I really don't. No, you're not saying me. No, no. You know what I mean. Don't. Would you do me in the karaoke? Definitely. Oh, wow, Jessie. I'm honoured. No one has said that.

52:32Really? I'm honoured. No, babe. You're going to have to do it now. That's it. I want video proof. I'm honoured. I'm honoured. And which song would it be for yourself? Don't Stop. Don't Stop. Oh, you like that song. Oh my gosh. That's a fun dance that we do. You have to come to one of the shows. I need to. I need to. And I am. I'm giving myself the permission to live. I'm going to give you the dates of which ones you should be at. Okay, definitely. And that's what we need to do. Thank you so much for being here. It is always just so wonderful to see you on our screens, but to have lunch with you, an absolute pleasure.

53:09Can you become our best friend? I thought I was already your best friend. That's fine. Perfect. You know what I mean? thank you good luck with the tour I appreciate that and you should be so proud of yourself we feel very proud of you thank you I think the whole nation does you say that my darling thank you we're very proud thank you I appreciate it

53:45where's my baby boy where's my bottle of bollinger in the cab with johannes no i'm joking we wanted him i love it that is the sign of a great dinner party guest i know he was like that champagne's very nice and I went yeah there's I'm not gonna I'm going on the school run in a minute go and take it and he went really and I said yeah hello you can come in baba do you want to come sit on mommy's lap and be very quiet johannes was such a great guest he's brilliant I love him he taught lenny a little move maybe you'll be in the house of jojo mum maybe not is he casting lenny would like to join no um thank you so much johannes um for coming on hearing his stories really just beautiful and i love how much he appreciates everything that happens to him yeah you know he doesn't take any of it for granted that was really really fun and i do like somebody who is willing to drink half a bottle of champagne in the in the taxi on the way to northwest london love that thank you johannes for coming on his book jojo finally home is out already and i've got a signed copy now and we're all going to the tour we are i'll be at the palladium the matinee with the kids probably see you all there and we'll see you next week

55:26We'll see you next time.

55:36We'll see you next time.