John Gregory Smith

0:03Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm sitting opposite Mum who has managed to find something that's very kind of on theme with Wicked being out. You've got green and pink, and then you've added the Lenny flair with a little dash of leopard. And your shoes. It's quite genius. And your shoes. Let's see. Oh, my God, the leopard print shoes. Where did you get them from? Clark's. Oh, fabulous. Are they comfortable? So comfortable. Oh, I'm thrilled for you. Yeah. Also, should we talk about the fact that we were at Euston Station on Friday afternoon and our train to North Wales had been cancelled?

0:37Yeah. and Lenny was in the most... Was it me? Vintage leopard. Yeah. So when you were complaining about the trains being cancelled, we also had fans coming up to you and revealing their leopard print in honour of you. Yeah, yeah. Total leopard. Total leopard. How are you? Well, I've got a sty. Oh, working too hard. Yeah. But besides that, I'm fine. Why do you think you've got a sty? I think I'm run down, Jessie. Oh, snap. A lot of work going on. So we have been a bit lucky today. Well, you have. Well, yeah, actually I have. I've done my bit. Yeah, thank you. Okay, I have been very lucky. And we have a chef coming over.

1:23We have the king of the tray bake, John Gregory Smith coming over. And he's offered up, actually, let's be honest, we asked him to, the greatest tray bake cookbook ever. So he's making something. Great. At Lenny's request. Yep. So what is he making today? Well, he's doing a monkfish carillon curry, I think. Lovely. I'm desperate to see how you make it, because I'm not good at making curries. I'm not a confident curry maker. Well, I think... He's good with spice. Well, we'll be chatting to him about this, but I think he's kind of prepped the sauce. Oh. Yeah, he's not going to make it here, Mum.

2:02Oh, I thought he might show me how to do it. That's not a show and tell. Okay. But he's going to do the fish here. Great. So we're very excited to have him. Great. And then you've made pudding. Yes. What have you made? I've made a chocolate, pear, hazelnut and cardamom taut. Oh, nice. Whose recipe is that? From The Guardian, Helen Goh, G-O-H. It looks quite nice. Amazing. Yeah. John Gregory Smith coming up on Table Men's.

2:38John Gregory Smith, thank you for being here. Oh my God, thank you for having me. I'm very, very excited to be here. I think, as I just explained to you, I'm in like three different universes of missing a record and doing album artwork, and then you've just bought beautiful, gorgeous energy and gifts. So first we're going to pop the champagne. Yeah, let's do it. Thank you. It's a nice way to break the ice, isn't it? Have a little glass of fizz. And also, tell us what else you brought. Oh, okay. So I brought some tray-baked recipes from my book, Delish. Yeah. I bought a cheese advent calendar. Who told you about this?

3:10Is it from a food PR? No, I just saw it and thought that it should be in all of our lives. And the dreams do come true. So that's why I bought it. It's delicious. A little tiny little cube of cheese. Well, I haven't opened it yet. So I'm hoping that's what it is. Should we? Is it bad luck that we should open it? Yeah, no, you can't open it. Why not? Why not? What will happen? Because I want to know. Yeah, nothing's going to happen. Father, Christmas won't come. Won't exist, will it? You won't come. Okay. But I think maybe we should just see what December the 1st is. I think we should. I think we'll do that after dims.

3:42Are you worried? No. No. Okay, fine. Have you been a good girl, Mum? Yeah. Don't care. L 'chaim. Good things. Cheers. This should be to your new cookbook. The greatest trade bake cookbook ever. Does what it says on the tin, like Ron's Hill. Yeah. Thank you. So everything in there is a trade bake. Yes. So basically, I've sort of morphed my cooking style. That is really delicious. That is good. So nice. And it was on offer as well. Well, I love that for you. Love a bargain. No, absolutely. My cooking style has changed so much because I sort of cut my cloth really as a food writer because I didn't want to become a chef.

4:20Why didn't you want to become a chef? So it's quite a weird but cool story. My sister, who I just adore, she's so cool. I'm very close to my family. Very close. She was out on the razz in a bar in like the early noughties. And she met a little known chef called Gordon Ramsay. And I don't know what happened, but she basically said, give my brother a job. And he went, yeah, right. Here's a fax number, right? This is how long ago it was. Give him this fax number. And I was like, Rosie, it won't be a real number. Like, this is just fake. So I faxed it and off it went. What do you write to Gordon Ramsay?

4:57I wrote sort of, hi, you met my sister in a bar, which sounds weird. And she said you'd give me a job. I mean, the whole thing sounds really bizarre, right? A fax comes back going, yeah, that's fine. He warned us about this. Call this number and we'll set you up with a stash. It was Royal Hospital Road. Wow. And I went for two weeks and worked in the kitchen at Royal Hospital Road. And my main job was... Was he there? He was there a little bit, but it was... I can't remember when it was. you know when you reach a certain age just everything kind of morphs into one he something horrific could happen to one of his chefs and he was very like on another planet so he wasn't really there much and he did breeze in and out and i was either like picking crabs so you have to put you have a huge box of crab yeah and you put a small spoon here and you go like this to pick out shells yeah or you get the smallest brush known to man and brush um mushrooms like the dirt off the mushrooms and I'm very very very impatient have like no attention span and talk too much so it was just a strange place for me to be it was like being in a silent retreat it was very weird it was like very was it testing it was just it was both fascinating and boring all at once if that makes sense because he shouted you no he was he was so nice and actually I met him a few years later and at a restaurant launch of his in New York.

6:20And he just beelined to my table. I probably met him twice for about five minutes. And he was like, you might need some help picking mushrooms. And I was like, how the hell do you remember that? That's quite presidential. It was so cool. Do you feel like he'd been informed by somebody that you were there? I don't think so. Wow, that's quite amazing. What he did say to me, because I was like, how the hell do you remember that? And he said, I will never forget face, but I've got no idea your name. and I was like that's you know good skills but it was it was a very strange experience because I was like I'd always wanted to get into food my whole life and I didn't know that there was such a thing as culinary school even existed and then I had this opportunity and and it was like I probably didn't even understand at the time how amazing that opportunity was and then I was it was a bit deflated because I don't really know what to do with it we did go back actually as um it was quite hard to get a booking there and we went as a family after I had worked there and I sort of said oh look can we have you know my family quite big family there'll be like eight of us and I don't know whether you've ever been but it's quite a small room it's little tables and there's one sort of table in the middle and they gave us this table and we all turned up and it was you know back in the day hammered we'd been at some like we'd been for pre-drinks with my mum dad and we've got quite family that family sounds quite fun they're really really good fun and we were sort of very rowdy and we got in there and we sort of had they were so sweet with me and they were like we're going to do the set menu it's going to be amazing and it was just one it was we had one of the best nights ever I think for the rest of the clientele there they were like less enthused by us because we you know we drank we only drank the house wine but we sort of drank all of it at one point this gorgeous French man who was like one of the maitre d's came out and was explaining what we were eating my sister was like I just thought I was like why are you serving chocolate like moose I don't get it he was like it's a pork tarrine and we were just and then eventually they I at one point my mum was making friends for someone in the loos at one point I was in the kitchen like wielding a knife trying to like I'll help you all prep and then they just came up the table and went you'll be thrilled to know we've ordered you a car you can go anywhere you like so that was you know that was that but it was um it was a funny experience but it made me kind of then figure out what on earth do I want to do in food?

8:38Not have a restaurant. Definitely not have a restaurant. Did you ever get a reservation there again? No. We did drunk book one when we were there, though, and we cancelled it pretty quickly. I'm obsessed with your family. I suspect they were thrilled when we cancelled it as well. But it was weird because it was like before internet was really a thing. It was before social media. So I was like, I just don't know what to do. So I actually set up a food brand. So it was back in the day when you like Yahoo'd something or Ask Jeeves. Do you remember that? Yeah, Ask Jeeves. Like so long ago. So retro.

9:09And I was like, how do you set up a food brand? Like one thing came up because there was no information on the internet. There was no AI then. There was nothing. And so I launched a food brand into Sainsbury's. And it was all about, for me, I didn't like classic cooking because it was like French, Italian and English. And I like to eat it, but I want to cook it. So I was like, how do you kind of do more exciting cuisines? And that sort of started a very long food journey of doing lots of very random jobs within that industry to sort of where I am now, which is like sat in your kitchen a million miles away from that.

9:43What would you call yourself, like your job now? It's so weird, my job. So how would I just so it's really weird. So I kind of define it by it depends who I'm talking to. OK. So if like I was at my parents house for dinner on Tuesday with a lot of their mates, my mum is 79, my dad's 80. and their friends are really cool, I just say I'm a chef. Okay. And I say, don't work in a restaurant, but I'm a chef. And then they kind of get you work within food. Okay. If I say content creator, they'll just go. Got it. But I think that is my job. Okay. I think it is. I mean, I do it every day. So, and I get paid for it.

10:18That makes it a job, doesn't it? Yeah. I think by definition. But you create your own recipes. Yes, that is true. And very good recipes, you were probably about to say. Fabulous recipes. And your content is so good because it's from what I, from following you on Instagram, like you make very delicious things that are enticing, but also really doable. Yes. So I think when I consume food content myself, I either want to watch like very weird and wonderful. Did you know you can watch Village Life on YouTube? So you can watch like, so people in villages all around the world will sort of film their daily lives.

10:55and a lot everyone's a bit confused but a lot of it is like cooking based so i for example i love traveling and there's certain places that i can't get to like iran being one of them so i got really fascinated by watching iranian village people cooking right and oh so you watch like i love it i love sort of like weird niche obscure stuff but i'm not going to make that in the week so for me like when i make content i want to do stuff that is like you on a wednesday night you can throw it together for the family for a load of mates and just be like you know what this is wicked and delicious and I've made it and that to me is a great recipe is there anyone that you modeled yourself on or do you feel like it's just been quite I mean who did I love when I was younger I think because I've been sort of doing so many different things for so long you know it you sort of roll with the punches and morph with it but like when I got into food I loved Jamie Oliver when he came out with floppy hair down yeah So everything was simple.

11:54Well, he taught us you could chuck it in. Yeah. Unlike Delia, who weighed a glug. It was wild, wasn't it? But then actually Delia was fascinating. So I remember watching a Delia show with my mum where she'd stand like that. And we went to M &S in Richmond to buy this paste that she told us all to buy that was apparently huge in Italy called Pesto. And we were just like, this is wild. And we took this tub home and we literally like stared. Like, what do you do? And I was like, she stirs it into pasta. And, you know, back then, even my mum was like, we've got, like, I don't know what pasta we've got.

12:27And it was just nuts. But I used to love her. And then, do you remember Ken Hon when he had a moustache? Loved that. But didn't you adore Nigella? She was just, like, she purrs like a kitten and I love her. She is famous all over the world. All my friends in Greece sit and watch Nigella's Christmas special. But she's just gorgeous. Because she's just so gorgeous. She's sort of aspirational, but at the same time, she doesn't feel otherworldly. You know, she'll sort of do something utterly fabulous, but whilst with a bit of cream on the side of her face or something and just be wicked. And also she always has a fabulous kitchen.

12:59Fabulous. Yes. And I'm really into fairy lights. And that woman is into fairy lights. Oh, she loves fairy lights. So how, what does your kitchen look like? What have you got? Have you got an island? So I'm in a rental and I don't know how much I can actually say about this because I've completely changed my kitchen. because I felt I'll just zhuzh it up within the confines of what I can do. So yeah, I've given it a nice zhuzh up. But it's a very nice kitchen. It's like bright and breezy. We put in lovely, because of filming, like light cabinets, light marble. Is that where you do all your filming?

13:35Yeah. Let's take it back to your family. Okay. Your very fun loving family. They are fun. Tell us who was around the dinner table and what was a very kind of memorable dish from your childhood? so we where i grew up in richmond um i had our family and then my two aunties with so all my cousins we all grew up within a few minutes walk of each other and we're still really really close now which is so nice so there's not no six grandparents my mum dad are two nine cousins of which i'm one and there's like 21 grandchildren so there's a lot of us and we've always just hung out together so like when we were little you know if it was a birthday on like a tuesday night or whatever everyone would come for like a glass of wine and a colin the caterpillar we were always sort of all together and it's always been about food sunday roasts were massive curry curry night was a big thing chris i mean christmas dinner i think is one of my favorite events of the year with my family i just i literally love it who's cooking this year darling so i do majority of it yeah have you got a double oven so my mom so we cook at my mom dad's they've got double oven but Much to my father's disdain, he hates this, I cook the turkey the day before.

14:50Because it's for 32 people. It's a lot. And the main thing when you cook for 32 people is carving takes hours. And if I'm wearing a lovely smart shirt or some fun cardi, I don't want it covered in turkey juice. And that's like 40 minutes of cutting it. So I cut it and then set it in a very thin turkey jus. so it stays very moist yeah there's what you said not me the word it's very moist and then you just bang it in the oven reheat it for 20 minutes and we always have late dinner so we we have dinner like at nine and nine o 'clock at night we've always done so do you know why we started doing it oh my god it started when we were young because we had you went out for a big walk no we went out for really big christmas eves they we really like to celebrate jesus and it went until very late at night oh so you went to church no to the pub okay oh yes we were at church celebrating yeah no we're just in the pub and then um everyone was hung over everyone was deeply hung over and just like vile and then you had a big brunch and my mum used to get really cross because she'd be like i put so much effort in today and you're just all moping around with like rugs on awful and then when everyone started having kids they were like actually if we can do dinner we can put the babies to bed and they won't bother us.

16:10Okay. So that's what, and we've just always done that. What about the 21 grandchildren? So now they're all there and they're all grown up and they're all like, they, so it used to be we'd have like the adult table and the kids table. Yeah. And you know, it literally all swings in. Nine is quite late though, even for posh people. That's so European of you. Oh, it's very European, darling. No, Europeans eat the night you fall. Okay, it's very Greek of you. Well, I mean, it's funny because we're a very like just, we're, I mean, my surname is about as British as you can get. Do you know what I mean?

16:39It's too standard worth. But no, we're more like a Mediterranean family when we're all together. Everyone's just very loud, very yelly and loves the food. Right, a clock is quite late. You'd love it later. Will you have pudding later as well? So we'd normally do. It's a bit like a buffet situation, if I'm honest as well, because there's so many people. You sort of lay everything out. Everyone gets a plate. We've all sort of done the table. You know where you're sitting. You know where you stand. You know what's going on. And then pudding, again, so I will clear everything up and then I'll put out cheese, pudding and then an alternative because I don't like Christmas pudding or mince pies, which is slightly weird.

17:12Do you just not like currants? I find cooked fruit bizarre. Oh my God, you haven't made cooked fruits there. I have. Oh my God, fuck, you have. No, it'll be delicious. I bet you'll win me over. No, it's a tort though. It's fine, you can take the pear out. Is it a ginormous mince pie? No, it's pear. It'll be delicious. Best thing ever. You can take, Oh, don't look worried. I'll love it. I'll literally love it. Well, you can just take the pear out. Yeah, you can. It's a pear and chocolate. No, it's a chocolate. A pear, chocolate and hazelnut taut. So chocolate is one of my favourite things ever.

17:45Oh, well, well, you're really clawing this back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love everything. Good. No, I love chocolate. So, yeah. So there'll be something else and then lots and lots of cheese. Like a lot of cheese, I think. I'm interested. Your partner is... He's Croatian. Croatian. Yeah. So how, does he enter into this or is he very much like you're all nuts? He's gone back to Croatia, I think. Well, no, he... He wanted his dinner at five. He wants an early dinner. He loves it. He's sort of funny. You know, he's from a Mediterranean family, but their family's very little. And he just loves the big, loud vibes.

18:19What are you doing about Christmas presents this year? So I, okay, so I love Christmas, but I'm a massive scrooge with presents. I just don't really bother because there's so many people. Yeah, you can't do it. And what am I going to buy? like 30 kids like their parents won't get them anyway I can give them hugs that's fun I'll get something for my mum and dad because they're amazing and they're worth spoiling but everyone there's just too many and I give the gift of Christmas dinner which I think you know what done I'm out do you do your stuffing separately then we would probably just buy stuffing interesting very Nora Ephron of you a bit of shortcuts you know stuffing the little sausage rolls with the bacon just pre-buy do you do like Jamie Oliver and do like a get ahead gravy.

19:04I do do a get ahead gravy. Yeah. Is yours very different to Jamie? Is yours thick or thin? I've been watching Instagram. Yes. Very thick. My dad would disagree with a thin gravy. Yeah. There's a Northern man somewhere with my father. He likes a very thick, rich gravy. And he's so sweet. We're about the same size, you know, quite little. And he'll get his plate and load it up with all his stuff. And then he'll put his gravy on. And he has to do sort of a, almost like sort of, you know, finishing school etiquette to keep it absolutely balanced, perfectly straight. There's so much gravy on it. You know, one little wobble, a little tidal wave gravy.

19:37But we do it ahead. And my mum taught me to, you brown the flour. This is your content this week on Instagram. You brown the flour for like 20 minutes. Yes, you have to, because otherwise it will just burn and it will taste like death. but if you just do it like very gently you know and you don't have to be over it like a risotto the whole time you just every now and then give it a quick shake and it gives you a sort of smoking is the wrong word like a nuttiness but then it gives you the colour so you get that beautiful dark colour do you remember browning yeah like in the bottle gravy browning Jessie's too young oh damn how old are you 44 you're kidding I'm only three years younger than you how do you not remember browning I don't know because I didn't use gravy browning you've obviously had a great gravy maker No, you used to put a few bistos.

20:23I always put marmite. There was nothing more bistos. I used to put marmite in. Did you? Only in lamb gravy. Okay. But I would use granules or... But do you put in your Christmas gravy? Yes. I like red currant jelly in my gravy. Wild. And some wine. Wild. It's a bit, that's a bit sweet meat fruit. Kind of. Yeah. Oh, you don't like sweet with meat? No, weird. Do you not have cranberry sauce with your turkey? Personally, I don't, no. So would you not have mango chutney with what you've made us today? Okay. Tumbleweed. Do you want to tell everyone what you've made for us today? Okay, so I've made two delicious recipes from the cookbook.

21:00One is a... Two? Yeah, well, I'll tell you why. So one is a monkfish curry. Yum. And it's just so nice. You just make a sauce, heat the sauce in the oven, bang in the fish, done. It's so delicious. Bang in the fish. Wow. And then the second recipe, because I felt like you need something delicious to go with it, rice. But I've made coconut beef rice. and it's so yum. It's really, really nice. So what is it? Like beef stock? No, you fry the mince but you fry it in the oven with onion. Fry the mince in the oven. If you were to choose any cuisine... Ever. Ever. Yeah. So we're coming to your last supper but if you were to choose which one do you love and it's your go-to and you couldn't not have it...

21:40Can I lump a sort of territory to I would say Middle Eastern. I just love everything about Middle Eastern food. You've done lots of cookbooks on Middle Eastern. I think I find it all that area, that region is so different from us. The food is old and it's got lovely stories and lovely flavours. And they use really evocative things like rose petals and pomegranate molasses and pomegranates. All these lovely fresh mint and stuff. And when I was sort of learning about food, that's why I never wanted to train to be a chef. Because I was like, why would I want to learn how to make like some French sauce when you could be eating that?

22:15That is the best for me. And I feel very, very strongly about hummus. I love. How do you make your hummus? I actually was going to make some and then didn't have the right chickpeas. So I just use really good organic chickpeas from a can or bowl bean. Bowl bean are the best. Whatever you want. And you have to have very, very good tahini. Yeah. Tahini. And there's a brand called Al Nical. And it's the best. I've got three tahinis in here. In the like brown jar, green lid. But there's actually two of them. There's two different brands. Both of them are really good. And it's. No, I've got Bellazu or I've got...

22:48That's really good. It's good. The Bellazu one's lovely. But they should be pourable and try and avoid anything in a jar. Do you put garlic in your hummus? So you want chickpeas, lemon juice, chickpea water. No, it doesn't do anything. I thought it did. I think that's a lie. No, because if you think about it, if you've got like a blender that's not strong enough to blend a chickpea, how the hell is it going to blend an ice cube? It'll just stay in there until it doesn't. So you're basically just adding water? It is complete lie, that. I don't know why you ever thought an ice cube would be... I got obsessed with that and was like, oh my God, this is the future.

23:23My hummus is going to be smoother than anything. It doesn't make any difference. Just get a really good blender. And if your blender's not amazing, just drain your chickpeas, boil them. Bold beans you don't need to because they're so soft. Boil them until they're squidgy, but keep that chickpea water from the tin. Oh, I never boil a chickpea. Right, should we put the food on? I say we, I'm doing nothing. I'm watching you and your sexy Tupperware. OK, let's get that Tupperware out. It's very good, yeah. You can take your drink over if you want, babe. I'm quite clumsy. I'm at the pre-drinks of Christmas dinner with John.

24:01So, you've got prawns going in there that you've defrosted. Splat in these prawns. So these, like, are really nice, massive, more like, you know, American-style prawns. Some monkfish. Monkfish, gorgeous. I love monkfish. Do you use upper scale, John? A scale? Upper scale. It's a fish delivery service. So this is from a little... So where I live, I live between Chiswick and Acton, right? Okay, which road? There's a fish shop in Chiswick. It's called The Avenue. Yeah, I know The Avenue. Come any time. We're opposite the Plum Duff Bakery. Okay. And there's a little fish shop in Chiswick, and you go and you buy one prawn for£700 because it's Chiswick, or you can go to Acton and buy, you know, lovely monkfish for just like normal prices and they and funnily enough they serve all the restaurants around there.

24:47Really interesting. So you just put that in and then how long will the monkfish need and the prawns? I'd say like three or four minutes. So this is a really easy kind of tray bake. So this would usually be in the oven. So if you were tray baking this the you basically bang it oh god i can't quite remember okay so you start with your onion yeah onion goes in the oven for like 10 minutes get a bit of color on it i think it's just onion then you add the sauce which you just whisk in a jug pull that in a couple of minutes heat up add the fish couple of minutes cook through so it's slightly layered yeah but if you did it all at once the it would just wouldn't work it'd be a bit gross so what are you doing now you're gonna make like is it called a tut tut I don't know.

25:33Taka. Taka. Taka. So you know like dal, takadal. A takadal, yeah. Yeah, so the tadka, tadka, is, so you make your dal and then you heat oil flavour it and you pour that over at the end. That is a taka. So because it's a tray bake, you can't do the spices and the oils you do at the end. Oh, wow, what's going on? So just the curry leaves, they get a bit crackly. Are those curry leaves? Yeah. Fantastic. Get that in. Do you two like... How spicy do you like food and life? I don't mind spice. Mum's a bit... OK. Less... Yeah, I'm a bit of a wuss. This looks delicious. There you go. Bit of that, bit of that.

26:11So that's mincemeat. Yeah. And rice and any spices. So there's coconut milk, stock, soy sauce, fish sauce and oyster sauce.

26:29so john this looks absolutely exquisite take us through each okay each dish on the table this is a south indian inspired curry based on a dish called mean moly which literally just means fish in sauce you'd find in kerala and it's just a very simple monkfish prawn curry with kairi leaves mustard seeds, coconut, ginger, garlic. Delish. This is literally an oven-baked beef coconut rice. You sort of slap the rice, beef and onions with like lots of soy, ginger, garlic, all in the oven with coconut milk and cook it. And there's a trick where you cook it on high for like 20 minutes so the rice will absorb all the liquid and then oven off and just leave it.

27:11So it's in the cookbook? Yeah, and then you get this fluffy, yummy rice. So is it cooked with any water and stock? So there's stock in there as well. Okay, fine. And then that's just what I had in the fridge salad. I love that. The bejeweled salad. I mean, it looks perfect. Thank you. Pleasure. Right, curry. I think this may have to be our New Year's resolution that basically everyone cooks for us because this is heaven. Makes life way easier for you too. Has your partner got some of this back at home? No. Okay. No, fair enough. Thank you. Absolutely not. He's very funny. He's like a cat. He can smell fish.

27:44So he came last night and went, oh, you can eat fish for me. It's like, sorry, love. No, there's no fish for you. Mum, would you? No, I'm going to do it. Oh, he's going to do it. Should I do you then? Yeah, go on. That sounds weird. You can do me, yeah. Okay.

27:57Whatever. We're in. Yeah, we're in. Okay, thank you. I'm going in. Do that. Mmm.

28:06Oh, my God. So nice. And I would never think to do, like, minced beef with monkfish. It's a slightly weird combo. It works. Oh, it's delicious. I thought just coconut rice with coconut. So nice. Have you been to like Malaysia and stuff? Yeah. And they'll serve that coconut rice with all the coconut curries. And in your head, you think, oh, is that going to be too much? But no, it's not. More is more. Delicious. This is amazing. Honestly, it's so wonderful. And you promised me this is actually easy. And you could serve this up for a dinner party. You could make, I can look you in the eye and tell you no word of a lie, you two.

28:44Monday night you could make this after work like that either of them they're that honestly they're so easy darling I think you should have a restaurant oh I'd be awful no you wouldn't I'd spend the whole time like gallivanting round the front sort of trying to talk to people like inherently I love people you could be like Russell Norman from Brucho wasn't it Russell Norman I mean he's dead now yeah he was Russell was like the best front man he was very tall I remember wasn't he he was fab and like would come over and it was the anniversary of Prince's death or his birthday and he just like cranked up Purple Rain.

29:22And like, oh, he was amazing. I feel like you'd give that energy. This is so delicious. I can't get over the rice. It's so nice rice. I think I'd just be too over familiar with people. Actually, in a rational experience, especially if like, imagine if you were like trying to sort of seduce someone on a date and then I just come over like, oh my God, tell me everything about you. It just wouldn't work at all. Also, it's bloody full on running restaurant. It is really full on. Do you want to shout out any local restaurants that you love in your area? So my favourite is a little dumpling place called Mr.

29:55Dumpling. Yeah. Just off Shepherd's Bush Roundabout. And it looks like it should be in Chinatown. So they've got sort of ducks and people in the window. And it's the best northern Chinese dumplings that I've ever had in the UK. Really? They're so good. So you get like pork and chive or prawn, pork and egg. And they are so juicy and delicious. And the pastry gives you that lovely bite. And then they do this sort of garlicky dipping sauce. That is, I mean, you literally stink the next day, but it's just so worth it. It's so yummy. And it's really nice going to eat there, but they deliver. And they've got this handy delivery system where when they send you the dumplings, You get a neat box and each dumpling comes in its own handy slot so that it doesn't slosh around on the bike.

30:43So good. Oh, man. That sounds amazing. We need to move to Chisit, Jess. Come. How's next door up for sale? Come. Okay, so last supper, starter main dessert drink of choice. Okay. So I think starter would be those dumplings because I've always loved a dumpling. My brother used to live in Hong Kong. And one of the highlights was I used to go over there and I spent, I used to do the Thursday night flight, get there Friday, go out Friday night, eat dumplings all day Saturday and then leave on Sunday. It was so fun. Because if you lived there, you'd just pop over. You went for a weekend. Pop over to Hong Kong.

31:21Yeah, you used to literally go all the time for the weekend. But this was like years ago when flights are now so expensive. Back then they were sort of, you know, to a penny, just grab a flight, off you went. And we were quite greedy. So, you know, my brother's, funnily enough, much taller than me. But dumplings I've always loved. So I think that would be my starter. I love all the sort of soy and chilli and all the bits. And it gets all a bit sloshy and messy. And I love all of that. Main. Oh, what would my main be? Are we going to go Middle East here? Am I allowed a snack before the main? Yeah, I love that.

31:51So my snack would be, if you were, if you happened to find yourself, you may find yourself, in Armenia town in Beirut, there is a restaurant called McDeus. and it's like a tiny little hole in the wall kebab shop. They have the best chicken shawarma ever. And they do like this amazing, it's not the shaved shawarma, it's like a chopped shawarma. A tray baked shawarma. Exactly, they wish, Lenny. And they basically have crispy deep fried chips that they toss all together in the meat juices of the shawarma. Oh my God. And then put like garlic sauce, it's called tuam, the sauce. It's so nice. It looks like a cloud in a jar, it's so nice.

32:30and then wrap it in this beautiful bread with salad and it's just amazing. And actually, I remember taking my parents there years ago and my mum was like awfully like... Was that another weekend just popped up? No, we were there for quite a while actually. Were you doing work there? Were you living there? So I was there for three months to write a book, which is like the greatest job ever, you know. And I'm quite stubborn and I decided when I got there that I was like, I don't need a translator. I don't need to pay because Lebanon's not on any tariff that we have so I don't need to pay for my phone I'm just going to use old-fashioned maps and I'm gonna that's me done so the fucking map I had was from like 1950 and had nothing on it so I got completely lost at one point my actual car got wedged in a road in Tripoli and I had to get all these people outside a cafe to help me push it because I'd gone down, you know, down like a little wrong lane.

33:33I love that was one of the funnest things I've ever done. It was totally bonkers. But I was there with my mum and dad, took them to the skabab shop. My mum was awfully sniffy about it. But then once we saw it, she was eating it. She was like, this is so good. So that would be my little snack. My main would be. I think Christmas dinner. I think it would be the full. Am I allowed the full shebang with everyone so that I can get I can ship them all in? Is this my death row dinner? Am I dying the next day? Well, no. Not dying. What do you think? You're going to a desert island for six months at least.

34:05Jesus, and no talking. Maybe 60 years. 60 years? I don't know. Do you want to die or do you want to go? I'll be fucked.

34:15Cheats will be hanging to the floor. Okay. Want some more? Let's go with that rather than death. So they're not going to see me for quite a long time. I would want our Christmas dinner. With all your family. All the fam there. and there's a very funny point with our Christmas dinner. Once all the, I think I said, once I lay out all the desserts and the cheese, my mum, you'll hear the chords of when the thunder calls you. Do you know? From the mountain high. She loves E17. It's so weird. I need to go to your parents' house. And my mum will literally be like, everyone up. And we have to all start dancing.

34:53All the grandkids are kind of slightly confused. to E17 Thunder when the thunder calls you. Yeah. And she loves a bit of that. Time to spread your wings in. Wasn't it a Christmas hit? No, that stay. She went for like the B-side. So she loves that song and then it all just descends into like a disco, which is great fun. So that would be my main. Oh my God. This is amazing. You've got to come. Jessie, maybe we should have disco this year. Well, we could fit in nine o 'clock because we eat at about three. So we'll maybe see you there for the E17 moment. Double dip. Yeah, love it. Maybe I'll start getting my daughter to do a traditional song.

35:28A traditional boy band 90s song. Get her to learn something on the piano. Yes, Dana. No, that's exactly the same song, isn't it? Want You Back For Good, surely. Want You Back For Good, that would be good. That would be really good. But then they've got that drawn out, whatever I said. Maybe you should add that to your mum's playlist. That is on her playlist. So she's very committed. Can she play the piano? No, she does cattle walls and has the best time ever. Oh my gosh, she sounds fantastic. She's great fans of that. This high and so cool. What's her name? Sal. Sally. She's very cool. I love my mum.

36:04So we've got Christmas dinner with your amazing family, with all the trimmings. Yeah. How many different stuffings do you have? Always have a really basic pork stuffing. Okay. Which is essentially just a giant sausage. Delicious. And you cut it into cubes. And then someone will bring nice balls. What, like the Paxo one? Like a sage and onion stuffing. Yeah. I just don't see the point when you could be having extra pork on your plate. Okay. Do you know what I mean? I like it. We do two really nice ones. Do they? They'd be too fine of apricot and walnut. And do you hand make them? But he wouldn't eat it because it's cooked for it.

36:41So listen, that I would try. That's one thing that is super easy to make. So that I would be all over. I think because we cook for so many people, we'll pick our battles. So you want really good turkey, really good gravy, really good roast potatoes. and then red cabbage peas are peas aren't they no we're quite basic with veg I'll do like a quick tray of roasted things okay and then that and then it's all the gubbins you know do you like bread sauce love it do you I find it the weirdest thing ever it's so strange her brother will have it on a sandwich really bread sauce on a sandwich which is weird bread on bread I find that the strangest thing you do this thing when you finish cooking something on Instagram and you go like this and you go, just do it.

37:25Like an orgasm face. Yeah, you do that face. Just do the face. Go on. You do it every time. Let's get into character. You've got to watch him. He goes like this. Okay. Ah, he always does it. And I love it. I think what I more normally do, if I'm not aware of that, I do a slightly weird jig when I'm really happy. or sort of involuntarily clap. This is so delicious. Are you a sweet person? So I'm obsessed with chocolate and I'm not just saying that to suck up. I love chocolate. It could be anything from like, literally like a dairy milk or if I'm feeling really fancy, I love like a bar of green and blacks with salt.

38:11Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, we have dessert. It looks beautiful. You said you're going to be a big boy and try the pear. but would you add in I think your chocolate dessert so what would be the dream dessert my favourite because I wouldn't make them is a chocolate fondant I oh I could have done that would you really like a melt in the middle yeah do you never make them I just think it's really fussy that's what I want to eat in a restaurant I can't be bothered why don't you find a way to make it not fussy Jess do you want some could have been in the greatest trade bag buy it in delivery yeah fair enough Jess do you want some little sliver please yeah that's perfect No, I'm not Desserts, I kind of like chocolate brownies Something easy But if I'm out, a chocolate fondant I find it so thrilling when you cut into them And they just go Do you make that many sweet things?

39:02You don't really on your, it's more savoury your channel Yeah, I love savoury But sweet is like, yeah, chocolate brownies I pride myself on making a very good brownie See, I'm just like, I find the whole fuss around chocolate brownies But if I made them for you Can I have the ice cream? You would do that face that I just did. What the? That was a slightly odd face, yeah. I just, I don't really get the fuss. So I think, unlike a cake, a brownie has to be sort of almost beyond moist into a world of like ooze. Yeah, it's got to be gooey. Ooze is too much, isn't it? This is really good. Really gooey.

39:37I'm going to just go for it. Well done. Can you taste cardamom? Well done, John. No. Weirdly, I just feel, why have I been so strange about them for so long? It tastes quite nice. I just went full on, ate the pear. Well done. Delicious. And it's almost like... Now try it with the chocolate. It's almost a bit fragrant, isn't it? A pear. Yes. It's quite delicate, isn't it? Yes, it is. They're also quite al dente, so it's not mushy. I really like that. Delicious. This is lovely. Whose recipe is it? I'd pay for that in the restaurant. Yum. It's Guardian Feast. Is it? Oh, yes. Who's it? Helen Goh. Helen Goh.

40:14Yes, she's amazing. What is on your Christmas list? What do you want? From Santa? World peace, obviously. Okay, so I think I mentioned earlier I don't buy presents for people, so therefore I don't think you can expect much back. Do you know what I mean? And does that happen? So I will still get a lovely stocking from Father Christmas, and there's always a sort of satsuma or some deodorant going. And that could be it, but I'm happy with that, you know. And it's funny because I'm not, I love a present, who doesn't? But I just, yeah, it just doesn't bother me. I think, you know, again, it sounds so cheesy, but as long as we're all together and we're having a nice time and everyone's in good form, that's enough for me.

40:53What would be your gift? If you were going to give one culinary, like, equipment, piece of gear, like food gear, cooking gear, what would you give somebody? And I have all the money in the land. Okay, let's go for all the money in the land and then let's go for stocking filler. Okay, so if I had all the money in the land and I was buying, say, for you two, I'd give you the KitchenAid Artisan Blender because it's like a kitchen-grade, like a restaurant kitchen-grade blender. So you can do soups, smoothies, everything, but you can put your chickpeas in and that's where you don't need ice. They will come out smoother than smooth, delicious.

41:32We just need the most amount of money in the world. It's expensive. I think it's about 600 quid. Wow. It's a really expensive piece of kit. For a blender? Yeah. But when you sort of see it, It's like almost like heroic, Lenny. But does it need to be on your table top, your work surface, your cock? You hide it away. You put it away, but it's heavy. Yeah, that's the problem. But it's amazing. Okay, so that's the big, big. Would you have a ninja crema? What's a ninja crema ice cream maker that's£1 ,000? I would. Even on Black Friday. If I was getting it, I would. Do you know what I thought when I saw them?

42:04Imagine if you made frozen margaritas in them. Oh, yeah. That would be a, imagine having a really fun party, perhaps some of your disco music on, and a frozen margarita stand. That would be so fun. You could like trick the top of your glass out like that. Are you a good party kind of poster? I love partying. Do you? The only things I've ever liked are music and cooking. That's it. Oh, fab. From a very young age, when my parents used to take me out anyway, you know, like, do you remember that when you were younger? You'd go with mum to like a dinner party and you would just be put in a room. and they'd be having like an amazing time.

42:39Did you used to do that? No. My parents would do that. You had dinner parties all the time though and I'd always want to come down. And you'd sit on the stairs when they were at home and stare and every now and then run down. If we were at someone else's house, all I'd ever do is get all the saucepans out and play with saucepans or music. That was it. They're my two favourite things in the whole world. God, that sounds annoying, John. I think it really was. I think it really was, yeah. Oh my God, John! I wouldn't have invited your parents over again. Fucking child. You love music and you love cooking.

43:06What do you listen to when you're cooking? So I've just started listening to a guy called Somba. Are you listening to him because he's cute? No, that's not my style at all. He's very good. I could be his dad. No way. He's very good. Amazing. And he's all like wiggly like Mick Jagger. He's wicked. He's really good. He had Sophie Ellis-Bex to come on stage with him the other day. Oh my God, amazing. Where? Why wasn't I there? Coco, I think he did. Yeah. He's really cool. He's a star. What's your kind of music? E17, obviously. E17, with like natch. any kind of like 90s grunge music I just love it all still same you know it's because it was so nostalgic and then I love like old rave music Lenny 90s rave music was so good like people like Carl Cox amazing he's an amazing DJ he still works now or the kind of more like cheesy stuff like so you don't listen to write said Fred did we ever listen to write said what's his name I'm too sexy No, Fred again.

44:07Very different to right. Fred again, I love him. And I've still not seen him live. And I really want to see him live. Why would you want to see him live putting records on? Because it's more like the vibe. And I think he doesn't just put records on. I think he does play it while he's doing it. And if you have to sing karaoke, do you do karaoke at the Gregory Smith parties? I think it's more, karaoke would be really upselling it. It's more just people yelling. Okay. So what's the song that everyone wants to sing? Champagne Supernova Oh wow, yeah Did you go and see Oasis? Oh my god, it was one of the greatest things Oh, wasn't it?

44:40I literally, I've always loved them And I never had a, actually, Blur Oasis, I always liked both It was so amazingly nostalgic to see them all together And I was with my brother and my sister and my sister's husband And I've never seen that many overweight bald men crying I know It was so weird, wasn't it? It was beautiful Did you wear a bucket hat? No, never back in the day either. Did you nearly buy one there? No. And then I nearly did. And then I was like, I'm never going to wear this again. No, stay in your lane, GS. No way. No, but I was yelling every word to every song and just doing this weird hopping because I was so happy.

45:21Wasn't, did you watch Richard Ashcroft as well? He was so good. He was really good. And they're also, they're from like a bygone era, those guys, aren't they? It's like the swagger. and that, like, imagine, can you imagine you going on stage and telling your audience, like, fuck off. You just wouldn't. I don't know. Whereas they do it and we all kind of go like, yay! I know, I know. Let's buy your merch. I know. It was so good. Before we let you go, John, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere? What would it be? It would be a chicken tikka masala takeaway and it would be at my aunt's house because we used to get them round there and she had this gorgeous old dining room and we'd get a takeaway curry.

46:05And do you remember when you used to get takeaway curry, they'd give you a little sad bag of salad? Oh, they still do. Do they? Yeah. Okay, so you get a bag of salad. No one really wants it. No one touches it. And you get chicken tikka masala and rice, lots of beer. Love that. That would be, I think there's something so nostalgic about chicken tikka masala. I love it. When was the last time you had a chicken tikka masala? So I would more make one now. I'm that kind of guy. but yeah quite often I quite like a chicken tikka masala or a butter chicken. Do you have lots of dinner parties? I try to yeah I love it I love entertaining.

46:37Can we come? A thousand percent a thousand percent but I don't cook at a dinner party I'll cook and then it's done I won't cook when anyone's there because I get extreme FOMO I can't bear the thought of anyone chatting if I'm not right in there. Oh my god I love okay so can you give me a tip I'm having like local neighborhood Christmas drinks and the last mum is pissed off because she's not invited because she's not in the right postcode can we have one yeah one night away from each other we'll chat after so when I did it two years ago all I was doing was getting bloody canapes from MS out of the bloody oven nightmare boring I was sweating I was hot the whole room was hot because the oven had been what would you suggest did you get hot hair you know when you go a bit wrinkly and sweaty And then you try and down a dirty martini and it was just like, it was slightly unpleasant.

47:28I'm sure everyone had a nice time. They had cold things. Do people want cold? What would you do? So how many people, roughly? Well, I'm hoping not that many because I hope they've all gone back to wherever they're going to. Like more than 10? Yes. Okay. More than 20? Probably about 20. I would definitely do everything pre-done. So like an array of delicious dips, labneh, baba ganoush, hummus. Okay, yeah. And some thrilling things to dip in. Yeah. And then something warm that you don't need to do anything to. What could that be? Mini sausages. I love them. Cocktail sausages. Everyone loves them.

47:58I've got them on the avocado order already. And then just loads of crisps. Got 72 ordered. Done. Yeah. Slam them in the oven. Job done. Honey and mustard. Bit of honey and mustard. And then just do little ramekins of ketchup and mayonnaise. And then what more do you need? Just ply them with booze. Would you do a big cheese board? I love a cheese board. I think that's so nice. and if you're really fancy you could put like olives and cured meats on. Dates. Yeah, like a grazing tape. Yes. Grazing tape. Delicious. I think they look fabulous. Now, how do you feel on paper plates? I think it's fine.

48:30Me too. Because then you don't need to do any washing up, bin it all and then the next morning you wake up and you're like, oh my God, my house is fine rather than my house is trash and I'm never doing it again. You've been a great help. Thanks. Thank you for coming over. Thank you for having me. I think maybe we need to do this again where you just come and cook for us and we talk about, you know, how you're getting on with stewed fruit. My pear journey. Yeah, your pear journey. When is the cookbook out? So the cookbook is out on the 29th of January, available in all good bookstores. And we can vouch that it's delicious.

49:01That sauce for that curry. Winner. It's divine.

49:19John Gregory Smith, what a guest. Gorgeous man. Loved him, cackled with him. He was kind of filthy and fab and brilliant and generous and had the best stories and the food was delicious. Delicious, great fun. I mean, I'm rather stressed. Got a lot going on at the moment, so it's helped so much that he cooked today and he was so fab. And gorgeous. And just lifted spirits. just such good fun yeah I loved him but his family parties are great do you think we can get an invite? the idea of his mum Sal going onto the piano not being able to play and then going when the thunder calls you it's just bonkers and fantastic and maybe I'm going to have to adopt that Christmas tradition that was a brilliant episode I loved having him on your tort was delish you changed his life eating pears now maybe he'll enter into eating a cooked apple so the guy never will eat a tart to tart.

50:18He's missing out. It's very narrow-minded for a chef. Very narrow-minded. Very. Thank you, John, for coming on the podcast, for being such a fabulous host. I guess he kind of did host me and my own. Yeah, he was good fun. Also, shout out to Joe, who's sorted my larder out today and is just the best. Joe can do. Joe bloody can do it all. And we'll see you next week for another episode of Table Manners.

50:46We'll see you next time.