Kadiff Kirwan

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1:06Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and it's a bustling kitchen behind me. Sam is making the noisiest coffee. Do you want to be a co-host or something? No, no. I want to get my barista job while I'm a student now. It's the sort of thing that students do. Guys, Table Manners. My husband will be a qualified osteopath in three and a half years and Sam is on coffee duty today because I have some delicious coffee straight from Down Under. Now, I'm going to start today's episode by giving the biggest shout out to all the Table Manners fans in Australia. They are plentiful. Oh, they're a lot.

1:43Mum, I had at my gig at summer camp, people, you know when they asked DJs for a tune, they said, where's Lenny? Well, obviously. They love you. They love the podcast. and I'd never eaten so well. As in Australia. Oh my goodness. I like those earrings. Oh, do you? They look like little Sputniks. What's a Sputnik? Like things that go in the sky. Oh, right. Anyway, it was amazing. I went to some brilliant places and we have a guest today and it's brunch and Australia is obviously famous for its brunch. So I've been inspired. But shout out to St Ali where we went on our first breakfast in Melbourne and also I have to give a shout out to Ange.

2:29Now Ange was put in touch with me on WhatsApp through my good friends who live down the road, Jess and Ben and they said Ange is like the time out of Melbourne, she'll sort you out. So me and Ange became pen pals, like WhatsApp buddies, never met each other. She gave me all the recommendations, so thank you Ange and she's a massive fan of the podcast but I didn't know this until she was three martinis in at Gimlet and decided to spout quotes from the podcast she says sometimes she will listen to the alan carr episode just to cheer up her day she has repeatedly listened to it so then i was like oh i'm with a psychopath she was a super fan had the book loves it so this is a big shout out to you and my new food friend who we may need to have a restraining order um if you ever come to london and you get close to lenny um so on the menu today we have a dutch baby which i think last time you did one was for billy porter maybe it's new He told me he was allergic to everything that I'd put in the Dutch baby.

3:30Do you remember? Oh. He didn't eat sugar. He didn't eat flour. Oh, well, we're doing a savoury Dutch baby. Is that the New York Times one I sent you? The New York Times one. It's goat's cheese and dill. I've never made it before, so it could turn out terribly. I've done some backups. This was inspired by a cafe that I went to in Melbourne called Florian. And actually, I put up a picture of this pea and asparagus toast. and they actually messaged back saying that they love the podcast so this is a big love and shout out to you guys um i'm semi it's the noisiest coffee machine ever it's just telling you what an attention seeker that's sage um so i had this toast it was pea and asparagus it was so vibrant mine isn't as vibrant and then i'm putting some anchovies on top so that's like a pea asparagus anchovy toast you're doing a toast as well as the dutch yes options mother wow um and then they do it with a jammy egg but because we're having the dutch baby i'm not going to do that okay and then i've made a caraway seed cake why i don't know actually showing off well actually i've cocked the recipe up and forgot to put i was like god this is so much energy when you've just got back i feel like i've got a new lease of life after going down under i actually think we should move there why I think we should definitely do a series there why because the food is great I've had a really good time and I feel like it was cold here going to Madonna tonight I took your daughter in the freezing cold the horse riding drive-thru McDonald's she was thrilled she loves that anyway so that's the menu but who we've got on this morning is my friend Kadif Kerwin he's so very handsome wow he likes to call you Dame Lenny that's fine and I've been waiting for this meeting he looks I've seen him I looked him up because I've not watched Slow Horses which he's in well it's the third season that's out and he has quite a big part in this season I mean he's been in the last but he always plays a policeman yes he's always quite a sexy policeman yeah a very handsome policeman he was also in Chewing Gum Michaela Cole's first programme which I adored he was also in My Policeman that film with Emma Corrin and Harry Styles and he was also in I May Destroy You.

5:47So he's been in so many things. Every actor adores Khadif and he's always at every opening of theatre or musicals. So we always talk about what we're going to see. So yeah, I'm sure we're going to talk about theatre. We're going to be talking about the new season of Slow Horses, which is on Apple TV. We'll be talking about food. He lives in South East London and is probably nearly here. Khadif Cohen coming up on Table Manners.

6:20Kadeef is in the kitchen. You've met Lenny. I've met the Queen. I've met the Queen. He's looking magnificent. Beautiful, always good, always smells great. Now, I have to say that Kadeef and I are quite in the early stages of our friendship, romance. Oh, yeah, blossoming. Yeah, we're coming up to a year of knowing each other. However, I've been watching you since Chewing Gum. Oh, my gosh. But the first time I ever saw you, you were on a plane. We were going to Morocco. Quite glamorous. It's kind of been downhill since then, to be honest. And you looked so cool. And I was like, who the hell is that?

6:53And then we ended up spending a whole weekend together and having so much fun. Yes, we did. And then the rest is history. But you've been busy. Yeah. Busy life. Busy year. Busy time. Really exciting time. Let's talk about slow horses. Oh, my gosh. Best job I've ever had. Lenny, you're going to love it. You haven't watched it. See, I only started watching it because my new best friend's in it. Also sound like it. But you're only in the second season. I joined from season two. So it's brilliant. No. You don't want to go for season one. No, season one's good. It's brilliant. It's sort of like, so elevator pitch.

7:23Gary Oldman is the boss of the slow horses, the rogues, the sort of the agents who, for one reason or another, have been ousted from the top jobs. So you've got a unit of basically down and outs, sort of the cretins, sort of really shit spies. Okay. Yeah, and they're not that practical, and you've just got one unit of people who are just rubbish, and they get ostracised to this unit called Slough House, and it's just what they get up to. They sort of get given the really crappy tasks, and it's sort of situational comedy slash drama, slash action film, slash... But, like, you know, you used to love Spooks, Mum.

7:59Yeah. And it's, like, got more humour than Spooks, so it's brilliant, and there's always kind of this big climax to the end. Oh, my gosh, yeah. And it's quite a big one for you in season three, right? Season three is massive, yeah. I'm so excited to be a part of it. I joined from season two, so my character is called Marcus Longridge. He is in the unit because he's a gambling addict. So when he's supposed to be on the job, like, snibering people, he's, like, on the roulette on his phone. You know, like many of us out there. Did you do any method for that? Did you do a bet? Yeah, loads of betting.

8:29Gary Oldman, who plays our boss. He's from New Cross. Oh, yeah. You know this. He's from down the road. You must invite him over. I don't think he lives there anymore though. He's a big foodie as well actually. On set he'd be talking about some wonderful meals that he's had. He travels the world quite a bit and he's a big foodie. So I want to be him when I'm a little bit older. So where is it filmed mostly? We film in London. Though some of the seasons have little extras. So the start of season three was filmed in Istanbul. Were you there? I was not there. Oh that's so annoying. I was fuming. But it's amazing because each episode, it's like a feature film.

9:06Apple are incredible at sort of pumping their talent and their money into the shows and they really look after us and it's the most incredible show to be a part of Is it out very soon? Is it out now? Out now, so episode 3 is out currently and weekly on Apple TV It's weekly, so this is coming out next week So episode 4 will be out today Nice! And please, please check it out It's the reason to get Apple TV I'd say And you get to see Gary Oldman be an absolute legend He is so good I just want to know because his part is like he farts in a bit Miriam it's a bit Miriam but like what's it Kristen Scott Thomas who's so good in it but like he's just disgusting he's got greasy hair did he smell bad on set or did he smell good Gary Oldman smells like money and success he might look he might look as the character like a down and out like a tramp like but he smells divine he honestly does Do you know what he uses?

10:06No, I don't. I'm going to ask him actually what he uses, but it's a beautiful smell. Okay, that's because I've always thought, does he like method that as well? Smells of money and success. That is a great expression. Eau de cologne, money, success. Now, let's get back to you. And growing up, where did you... So I was born in the Caribbean on a lovely little island called Montserrat. It's a tiny... The French one? It was French. It's British now. Well, they kept fighting over it. Good old colonialism. So I was born there. I was there until I was eight, but I moved to the UK because there was a volcano on the island, an active volcano.

10:41Yeah, I remember. And so it's a tiny island, 35 square miles, population, 14 ,000 people. Who was around the dinner table? Dinner table, my siblings. So I'm one of five, but in Montserrat, it was myself, two of my older brothers, and my parents, my mum and my dad. And my mum, honestly, the world's best cook. She was just everything. In preparation for this, I was so nervous because my mum recently passed away last year. But I was also, there was so much joy inside of me because I got to speak about food. And for me, food is my mother. Let's talk about her. And love language was her acts of service and cooking.

11:19So what's her name? Matilda Curwen. That was her name. She was one of 14 children. Yeah, my nan was a goer, innit? She was like, she was busy and she, yeah, she was, my mum was just amazing. the kitchen was would always smell of like bakes like fried dumplings and salt fish and ackee or things like curried mutton or oxtail or it was just classic caribbean classic caribbean the odd sort of french thing thrown in there she um she was caribbean french and food was just the center of all of our lives especially in the caribbean with all this exotic fruits and stuff it was amazing have you been to the Caribbean?

12:00I have but also my sister-in-law's from the Bahamas so they have it's not quite as Caribbean but similar sorts of things like acky but more conch and things like that is it conch or conch? conch conch got that right and soursop soursop oh beautiful beautiful soursop they don't do so much acky and salt food that's quite a Jamaican dish yeah we went to Jamaica pretty disastrous holiday really we ended up in a holiday inn that was all inclusive and it was rough oh dear yeah but i remember even in the hotel we had ackee and saltfish and it was delicious and festival festivals yeah yeah that was a revelation so it's like all the different caribbean islands have like festival is basically what we'd call a fried dumpling or bakes it's all the same thing but everyone's got their name for it but we called it bakes in monserrato and dominica where my mum was from they call them bakes and they're beautiful you'd have them for breakfast instead of having like toast or bread they'd she'd fry those in the morning before church on a Saturday and um did you ever have grits so my sister-in-law's mum used to make grits and fish stew on a Sunday oh we have fish stew on a Friday oh yeah was it was it you knew what you were having every day we sort of yes but my mum had this amazing sort of sense so my siblings and I were all quite different and we all like different things yeah so they'd be like four different meals on the table ready at the same time because i know she was she was she was pretty intense and pretty amazing at that but she it never seemed to fluster her or bother her but lots of caribbean women or families that i know they always have a big cook-up so on a sunday you never have one roast no you have chicken you have beef you have a curry you have everything yeah at least four or five different types of meat yeah and does that keep you going all week yes it does yeah yeah basically big roast on a saturday not saturday sunday and that'll get you through to wednesday yeah then wednesday you'll have um a little mix mash of things and friday night dinner or something fish yeah yeah and then saturday was there's lots of caribbean islands that have fish friday don't they yeah it's like barbados yeah boissons fish yeah beautiful because it i mean it's local produce isn't it it's just like you're not exactly going to go in the thames and what's your favorite fish um red snapper me too love they have that a lot in the bahamas yeah love red snapper it's quite bony it is quite bony but if you get a big one yeah get them to debone it for you it is delightful how do you like yours fried or steamed or okay lovely do you like yeah you're gonna come i'm gonna cook for you good i love cooking i love a bit of fried snapper yeah they do some really nice there's a really nice where do you get your snapper there's a fishmonger in um near me and um in South East, in Lewisham that I go to.

14:49Yeah. It's really good. Really, really good. Yeah. When you moved to England, where did you grow up? So we moved to London initially, and then we moved to Preston. Preston? Lancashire, yeah. So I come from Manchester. Yes, you are. So did you used to go to the Blackpool Illuminations? Yes. My mum, oh my gosh, one of my fondest memories when I was about nine years old, our neighbours told us, oh, you've got to go to Blackpool Illuminations. I think we'd been in the UK maybe a year. There's a Blackpool pleasure beach. And my mum was like, oh my God, a beach? We missed the Caribbean. Are you going to take us to a beach?

15:22This is amazing. We got to Blackpool. Oh my God, with the brown sea. With the brown sea, the donkeys on the beach. Yeah, which are fabulous. Which, I mean, it's amazing, but it doesn't quite compare. Everyone wrote Popeye the donkey on the beach. Popeye the donkey. It doesn't quite compare to like a Caribbean beach though. Honestly, it's probably one of the first times I saw my mum crying with laughter. Because she was like, this is a beach. you're mad but I love Blackpool we used to go every year and yeah fish and chips on the sea I remember the first time we had fish and chips as well oh it's great fish and chips are great aren't they stunning stunning when we first moved to the UK our neighbours they were so lovely they're still in Preston they brought over fish supper fish and chips in newspapers for our family fabulous and my mum was so offended because she was like you think I'm going to eat out of paper what is this and they were like no this is this is this is it's British It's like a tradition.

16:15You eat it out of the fish paper, the newspaper. And yeah, she was like, oh, OK. Right. We tucked in and it was stunning. Fish and chips are great. Beautiful. Up north. Yeah, up north. Beautiful. So what did your dad do? My dad was an electrician, Peter. And yeah, he used to cook as well. When mum was like away or annoyed at him, he'd have to do the cooking. And he was quite good, you know. Was your mum a Sunday go to church lady? Saturday. Saturday. So I was raised seven day Adventist. Oh, seven day. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like, they call it like a Jewish Christianity, don't they? Yeah. Because it's quite literal.

16:48Like, we go to church on Saturday, we celebrate the Sabbath. Yeah. Do you celebrate Christmas? Yes. You do? Yes. I think it's Jehovah's Witnesses who don't. But Saturday was church. And again, Saturday lunchtime, all the aunties bringing their Tupperwares full of food they've cooked. Amazing. Great coleslaw, potato salad, fish, chicken, oxtail. Amazing. And was there a big one in Preston? Huge. so my mum and my dad were in the choir at church as well. Were you in the choir? No, I was, oh my god, I can't believe I'm going to say this I was in a Christian boy band with my brothers and my siblings.

17:25Oh my goodness, I've seen a picture of this. You've seen a picture, Jessie, yes you have. We were called Like One, it was sort of like How did you spell the one? Like one, not W-O-N, no, like one. Not Aero One in LA. No, it was acapella, boys to men-esque. That sounds amazing. church songs we were wearing like oh mate it was a moment that I'm happy that's passed it's awful man can you like give us a little ditty of one of the songs I don't think I can actually I'm a proper heathen now I don't remember any church songs this is this is this looks insane what you know what I've never made it we have a Dutch baby oh wow which is goat's cheese and dill and it's kind of made like a that actually has worked out quite nice That looks stunning.

18:13And then I've got pea and asparagus toast, some griddled leeks with a hazelnut and like orange and sherry vinegar. I think I'm going to get some light spoons, sorry. I'm getting spoiled, yeah? We're getting spoiled, don't we? Absolutely. This is stunning. Yeah, she's cooked and she goes for it. That's more than me. I didn't like to have a day off. Do you like... Well, yeah, I mean, look... See how relaxed I am and cry. Usually I'm bright red in the face and look like a bug. Look, I get you all to myself while Jessie's cooking. This is amazing. This is kind of how it should be. Right, Mum, you serve up.

18:47This is so good. I have to say, because it's not my recipe, I would do this recipe again. Who is this by? I used to do New York Times one. Wonderful. Yeah. The Dutch baby, yeah. Honestly, Jessie, it's the best subscription I've ever done. Yeah, it's good. Melissa Clark, we need to get her cooked pork. Khadif, if we were coming round to yours, what would you be cooking for us? Would you go Caribbean? Well, it depends on people's level of spice. I'd get that out of the way. Yeah, Lenny can't do spice. Okay, so I'd do... Are you a hot sauce person? Oh, yeah. The world is divided between hot sauce and non-hot sauce, I think.

19:23Hot sauce or the marinade when I'm seasoning stuff, I'll let it stay there for 48 hours if it's something spicy, yeah. I'd probably make some saltfish fritters to start off with. Some garlic dip or something from scratch. My mum used to do this incredible cucumber sort of like, she makes her own vinaigrette and these like coils of cucumber. Oh nice. And you just have it soaked in this beautiful garlic and it's very garlicky I'm afraid. That's okay. You know, I do that. Then probably some Caribbean stew chicken with some mac and cheese and some rice and peas. How do you do your mac and cheese? Well, three types of cheese.

20:02Is it quite dry? But do you like it dry or creamy? me well it it's a bit of both my sister-in-law in the bahamas they would have it quite dry and you'd serve it in like squares yeah exactly like that like a pie like a pie yeah no breading on top but it like a pie um because when people tell me it's like mac and cheese is a main i'm like you're you're actually mad it's a side so do some chicken some mac and cheese although i went vegan for three years and how yeah that was worse than when i came out to my parents jesus christ honestly my mum had a worse reaction to me coming out as vegan than when I came out as queer because her love language was food she was just like what am I going to cook for you what am I going to cook for you I was like you don't have to cook did she start cooking more vegan stuff absolutely she'd do this most amazing spinach lasagna and she would substitute all the like for vegan cheeses and stuff it didn't taste the same but it was stunning and she'd do a cannelloni with vegan cheese as well Matilda I know I know None of my siblings would eat it though But I did It was really delicious Where do you like eating out?

21:11You know, you've lived in London for a while You're a South East Londoner South East London, through and through Yeah, represent We're basically neighbours Yeah, that was just like Sealed the deal, didn't it, babe? So where do you like to eat out? In London or South East? There's a beautiful restaurant in Blackheath Called Copper and Ink Oh, I haven't been Oh my word Blackheath don't normally have It's beautiful, it's all seasonal Must be a new one it's seasonal the chef was a previous master chef contestant mum you should know who was he I'll know him he had bald head glasses bit of a curly oh I know him I know him you know which one I'm talking about yeah exactly and the food we were there two weeks ago copper and ink okay great stunning they're wineless all organic oh my lord I've tried pretty much all the wines on that list they're really beautiful do you like a little natty wine I do I do I love any sort of wine, to be fair.

22:05Yeah, me too. I love any sort of alcohol, to be fair. What would be your wine of choice? White, I'd go for a Chablis. Nice and crisp. Or if it's a summer, something a bit more floral. Do you like rosé? I do, but it's not really... I'm not fussed about it. People keep thinking it's like you were a whispering angel lady. Oh, of course you are. I love it, but there's not many notes in it. I like it because it's very... dry you can drink it quickly can drink it really quickly it's not kind of syrupy at all like um like a chardonnay i like chardonnay i think i only like californian chardonnays because i was trying to feel a shabli is chardonnay yeah i like a riesling though like a nice german riesling stunning i just don't know what i'm doing you do i don't i kind of say that i like something and then i don't really know what i'm talking about um what about red what are you like on the reds You can keep Pinot Noir far away from me.

23:05What? I hate Pinot Noir. It's pissy. It's my worst drink. Wow, thankfully I didn't bring you a bottle of that. Whenever they say, would you like which red wine? I say, as long as it's not Pinot Noir. I like a Red Bull of Cello. Yeah, me too. I like Primitivo. Primitivo. I like Gros Zermitage. I like a nice Cabernet Sauvignon, actually. You know what? They're coming back. I tried a really incredible Greek Cab Sav. Oh, the Greek ones are amazing. I went to Caffalonio on holiday this summer and the wines in Greece. Christ. Really good. Yeah. It used to be that everyone laughed at it because it was Retzino or Domestika.

23:42No. Stunning. And now it's fabulous. Okay. Last supper. You know the drill. Mm-hmm. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice. Who's going to be around the dinner table? Okay. Probably me and a podcast. No, I'm joking. No, no, no. Who's going to be around the table? All my pals. Obviously you two. Thanks. I have a half, my besties. Okay, for starter, can I have it from two different restaurants? Yes, I like this. Okay, so I want... You're speaking our language. I want half a dozen oysters, dressed oysters from Bentleys in town. They do an incredible dressed Vietnamese oysters. Ooh, so what does it have, like lemongrass in it?

24:20Loads of lemongrass. So, so beautiful. Oh my God. Half a dozen of those, and then half a dozen of oysters from Seabird, the Carlingford oysters. Do you like Seabird? I love Seabird. I'm an oyster girl do you like the big fat ones? honestly the bigger the better we won't be fighting over the oysters no? no I can do like three and feel fab and then I'm like yeah no I'm done now give me something else I can't eat oysters I'd have oysters with a glass of Chapel Downs English sparkling wine yeah this is great Khalif you have prepped, you're a professional and I like this. Yes. Have you been to the vineyard, Chapel Down Vineyard?

25:00I feel like I have, but I haven't because I've drank so much of it. I feel like I am the vineyard. This was earlier in my career. I did three plays back to back at the Donmar Warehouse and they were sponsored by Chapel Downs. So we had to do all these fundraisers and got to speak into all the people. I drank so much. I was like, yeah, I want to join the family. I'm not quite sure how to, but you've been, haven't you? No, well, I did it on my friend's hen do. We got somebody from Chapel Down. bear in mind there were three pregnant people including myself including the bride and we did wine tasting great because I only thought it was fine because you know a little taste and you can choose to spit it out if you're not if not I was you know about six months pregnant so I did not spit it out and it was amazing and we did it in Rye and it was just fantastic is it in Kemp then?

25:46it's in Kemp okay Maine yeah my mum's oxtail okay my mum's mac and cheese how long does she take to cook her oxtail? about a day yeah yeah And she'd start cleaning it maybe two days before with lemon and vinegar and everything in the back garden. She'd be washing it, getting out all the fat. So no extra bits. And she'd pressure cook it and steam it. Bit of browning in there, garlic, chilli, onion, scotch bonnet. Oh, just stunning. Can you eat scotch bonnet? Yeah, but I mean, the problem is I always forget that I've got contacts in. and the amount of times I've put scotch bonnet in my eyes. Have you got contact lenses then?

26:28I do. You could never tell. Would you ever get laser surgery? I'm a bit terrified. Me too. My friend had it done and she said she could smell the flesh of her eye when she was getting it done, whilst they were burning it in. But did she get good eyesight? Great, she's got 20-20 now, but I'm happy for her. I'm also happy to keep wearing lenses. Yeah, right. How long have you worn glasses? I've worn glasses since I was nine. Did you take them off when you were in the Christian boy band group? I did. Honestly, there's a photograph of myself at secondary school and I looked like a black Harry Potter because I had the bottle, you know, it's insane, oh, dessert.

27:06Yeah. I would have... So you're just having Oxtel. Oxtel, mac and cheese, rice and peas. All my mum's. Any veg on the side? No, I don't want any greenery on my plate. Nothing. You doing well today then, babes? Jerk is such a... What did they say? Chicken is the most social meat. I have it all the time. It's not that special for me. Yeah, right. Where do you get your jerk from in South London? I make it. Oh, fair enough. Or if I'm going to a Caribbean takeaway, there's a place called Woodfire Grill on Lehigh Road. There's a beautiful lady. It's family-run business. Go and get my Caribbean takeaway some there.

27:37Do you make your own jerk seasoning or do you buy it? No, I don't buy it. Duns River? Yeah, Duns River. Or if I go up to Preston, my auntie will make some for me and I'll take it back with me and freeze it and then I'll have it to marinade. I love that I've got one of those chest freezers you know it's got a bit of everything in it I can just defrost I've still got a couple of my mum's dishes in my freezer oh yeah pretty insane but my mum used to do this amazing thing of when I'm doing a play in the West End or wherever she would send my dad down to London with maybe about 14 frozen meals for me batch cooking for you batch cooking for me so that when I came home from rehearsals or tech or whatever I could just stick it in the oven or the microwave and I have a kind of cooked meal.

28:21She sounds so amazing. She was just the best thing at night. She passed away quite abruptly, didn't she? She did. How old was she? My mum was 58. Oh man, she died. Yeah, so my dad died the year previously. Oh, I could have. Oh no, this is getting really cheery, this podcast, isn't it? I'm sorry. But no, my dad passed away at 59 from COVID-related complications 2021 and that was really tough for my family because we were all really close and I was he was shielding because he was diabetic so I hadn't seen him for about a year previously and you know that was really tough but we're a really close family and then my parents were together from the time they were 19 so you know I always thought during that year was like I really don't want to lose my mum to grief because she was so grief struggling with losing my dad and then later that year she got breast cancer but we got rid of all that and then the year to the day of my dad's anniversary my nan passed away so my mum was I know it's like an awful film but um my nan passed away from and she was in Dominica in the Caribbean so the whole family went including my mother I didn't go um to go and bury her and you know and then when my mum was there she didn't she didn't feel very well she was there for about a month she came back to the UK we took us to the hospital and they were like you've got pancreatic cancer and they told us six months and she passed away four weeks later so it was really um it was really tough and it continues to be tough but one of the most beautiful things is that I've got so many my parents were so kind in the fact they've left us with so many great memories because they always told us how much they loved us they cared about us how proud they were and I attribute even me being here today our friendship Jesse our budding friendship Lenny and all the good things in my life down to my mum and all those memories started in the kitchen being around the table cooking watching her but you felt love oh my god enveloped by it i think i literally feel her here today the most important thing anyone can give their children love and care and a nice meal and oh they were so proud absolutely so proud my me and all my siblings we're a big old family myself so um i've got eight nieces and nephews No other actors?

30:33No, I'm the only, well, there's other actors, I'm just the professional one. Okay, so just tell me, you went to school? I went to school in Preston. Yeah, till? Till I was 16, then I went to sixth form, Runshaw College in Leyland, shout out Runshaw. Then I moved to London, I auditioned for drama schools that year, didn't get into the school I wanted to go to. Were you acting when you were at school? So, what made you interested? I was a really naughty secondary school person. Were you? I was awful. I got suspended twice, yeah. For what? For doing what? Fighting. Yeah. Had you come out of that?

31:09No, it was all to do with being queer and being gay. It was all to do with that. I was so sort of trying to emulate what masculinity was and be like, oh, cock of the wall. Because I had two of my older brothers at the school. They were taller and bigger and stuff. So I sort of never had to worry about being set upon by others. But I just wanted to hide myself. And I wanted to hide in plain sight by being really like, sort of, quote unquote, masculine. which was awful and so I got into quite a few fights and then I had this one drama teacher Mrs Pamela Haywood-Connor who still teaches at Walter Nidale High School and she hounded me she was like I think you need to come to drama class after school I think you need to come because I think you really enjoy it and I was just like F off I don't want to come Is that because she thought you'd be able to express feelings She could see something channel this sort of frustration and she rang my mum after school and my mum was like this woman keeps calling can you just go please because it's really annoying and I walked into that after school drama class and it changed my life completely and she's still there she's still there I ended up getting 13 GCSEs I went to sixth form did performing arts I still did maths on the side because maths was my favorite subject and then I took a gap year in London because my parents wanted me to go and do maths and be an accountant um you know nice and sensible and I was really good at maths like you know it was something I excelled in not anymore I've got an accountant for that now.

32:30I moved to London and I was like, I need to work out a way that I can go to drama school but pay for myself. So I got a job. I got a job as, do you remember Gary Rhodes, the chef? Yes. So I worked for Gary Rhodes in my gap year. So where were you working? What was your job? He had a Michelin style restaurant called Rhodes W1 in Marble Arch. And I was the host there. I started as a commie waiter, then a waiter, then head waiter, and then I moved on to host. Because you're so charismatic and they needed to have you at the front. Because I was 18. I was 18 and Gary was so kind and so lovely. But if you're bright and smart and engaging.

33:05I loved it because I loved the food that the chefs there were. Was Gary kind in the kitchen? Gary was extremely kind. He wasn't there that much because at that point I think he had four restaurants. He had one in the city. He had two in Marble Arch and one somewhere else. And he was opening somewhere in Dubai. And Gary was very kind. We'd have wine training and food training twice. That's why you know all this stuff about wine. Yes. Okay. But he had a place in the Caribbean, didn't he? He did, yeah. In Grenada. Yeah. You didn't say what you have for dessert. Oh, yeah, we haven't finished. Sorry.

33:37Dessert for me? Oh, my God, I've got you to thank for this. Well, what happened? So, when I went to Lisbon earlier this year, you obviously gave us an incredible... Yeah, I gave you some recommendations. We were there for five days, and only three meals... Three? This is three. Only three meals weren't on that list that you recommended. so for dessert I had this most amazing lemon like deconstructed lemon tart from Denoy oh my god Denoy was so good in Lisbon and that was amazing and I'll have that with a dirty martini three olives very very vodka vodka bit of kettle one that's why we get up so well very very heavy on the brine yeah you'd have a martini with your pud I would why because then if I introduce the sweet into the savoury I can continue drinking Okay.

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35:37If there was one course you could give up, what would it be? It would be dessert because a starter, essential, because you've got to have an aperitif with it. Main, that's the main course. And for dessert, you could just have another drink. Well, Bailey's, I think Bailey's is my dessert now. Oh, Bailey's, okay. I've already opened one bottle. Have you? My Christmas bottle. For you, though, is it purely seasonal, or can you drink it all year round? I would drink it all year round, but it's so fattening that I can't drink it all year round. Who cares? You've only got one life. Enjoy yourself. Yeah, I might not have a very long one if I carry on enjoying myself, yeah, to be honest.

36:10I love Bailey's as well, though, or Tia Maria. Oh, I don't do Tia Maria. It's quite sweet. It is, but I now put a bit of squirty cream on top. Do you? I do, yeah. That's a good idea. I love that. That's really delicious. Do you like Cointreau? Love Cointreau. If you put that with ice and it goes all milky, I love it. I love Cointreau. I even love Sherry as well. Are there a particular spirit in Montserrat? Spirits? Yeah. Is it just rum? Lots and lots of rum, yeah. But Montserrat has this thing where it's British and Irish. So basically, in Cromwell's Britain, they sent a lot of the slaves and stuff over to Montserrat.

36:49so I was born in Cork Montserrat, my last name is Curwen it's like we celebrate St Patrick's Day our colours are like red green and white they call Montserrat the Emerald Isle of the Caribbean, there's all these like and there's also some accents in Montserrat that sound completely, our mutual friend Aisling Bean we're thinking of doing something to encompass that some sort of documentary and stuff that could be fascinating because she's Irish she's Irish yeah of course you're in this way up I'm in this way up with Aisling which I loved and Aisling has been a really good friend to you hasn't she honestly like it's so rare to do a job and basically leave with a family member and that's definitely what I found in Aisling completely kind completely just personable and just she's the most brilliant person biggest heart ever you have this where well because you're absolutely wonderful and gorgeous and brilliant you and Michaela Cole have this you're like siblings right?

37:49Yeah she's my sister she's literally my sister my actual sister who is also called Michaela is going to be fuming I said that they're friends now but she gets so annoyed when I talk about she's like my sister Michaela she's like do you mean me or Michaela Cole I'm like both of you but Michaela Cole is again another beautiful friend of mine and seeing her rise to stardom well actually seeing everyone else catch up to what we've already known has been beautiful but I feel like it's my lot in life to be surrounded by wonderful women like between Michaela and Aisling and my lovely sister with you two even like my career like it's Michaela and Aisling and Phoebe Waller-Bridge and Daniel Lawrence all these wonderful people that have given me my step up so I'm like yeah all right that's that's pretty lovely.

38:34Well speaking of steps up I mean you we can't talk about what you're doing but you're going to be doing something very exciting. Yes I'm in the process of talking about doing a play next year at the national which i can say that much would you be the starring role uh yes it's going to be really exciting once we finalize all the details but i'm so excited to go back to theater slow horses has been the most incredible job and it continues to be the most incredible job we've shot more as well so there's there's definitely more to come with that but i'm excited to pop back into theatre for a little bit I also write as well so it's like, oh thank you you don't, are you working on something else?

39:16so yeah I'm under commission with BBC Studios and my own show it's been in development with them for a little while, it's sort of semi-autobiographical slash not it's a brilliant show, set in Manchester Lenny so, might be part for you is the boy band going to be in it? no, god no Jess you have not recovered from that I'm just obsessed with like these what did you just sing we just sang yeah you didn't play an instrument all a cappella that's amazing yeah my cousin Nadia has had this little one of those little whistle but I haven't heard you sing no I've done a bunch of musicals though as well my first job when I left drama school was Sister Act with Cynthia Erivo oh no big deal I also noticed that you play Sky Masterson the last theatre job I did I played Sky and Guys and Dolls I put the Sheffield Crucible 2021 to anyone yeah jesse played miss adelaide i think maybe i want to know what you're doing for christmas so for christmas i will be spending it up in lancashire with my siblings um my brother's just had an extension done so he's very excited for us to come around and rub that in our face so we're going back to my brothers um normally on christmas morning i will stay either at the family home or in a lovely hotel because i don't really want to still there yeah so my um well another one of my older brothers when um my parents passed away he took over so he he now lives there with his kids because it keeps it in the family and it's yes it's beautiful all the family are up in in preston so i've got so like i said i think my mom was one of 14 my dad was one of eight so there's just loads of family i've got family in north london loads of family in north london lots in preston lots lots in preston in the particular village that we live there's 14 houses of my family in this one village.

41:04So there's going to be lots of knock, knock, knock. Is there a pub nearby? No, they just have a bar in their house. A proper bar in the house. So Preston, Christmas, I'm in charge of the bar. So have you got to bring the booze? Yeah, so I've already had some stuff delivered actually. What's going to be on the menu? So we're starting off with some Mai Tais in the morning. Oh, you're like going to be like Tom Cruise? Mixologist, yeah. Oh, should we do that Jess? No. A Christmas cocktail, go on Somebody else can be on cocktails then Because I have this bloody oven That I need to be monitoring the whole time We'll have a Cosmo Cosmo Martini Oh mum I have to say I did this gig In Australia where I had to do like An acoustic intimate performance And people had dinner At this place called Farmer's Daughter Also by the way I'm not a baker And it looks a bit sad but it will taste alright Mum will you cut please and no it's not don't have the bum end if you don't have the bum end go from that side and I had to sing and I felt like I was at a bat mitzvah or wedding it was very it was very sweet but they started the cocktail with one that was called Beautiful People but I think it was like a Cosmo I felt like maybe it was because of you oh yes because when Raven Smith was on you two were obsessing about the Cosmos weren't you?

42:24yeah because he thinks they should be brought back I do too to be fair I think they're the best cocktail. There's a lot of, they're quite sharp. A good one is quite sharp. That's what I love. Okay. That's the best thing about a Cosmo. But the reason she got into them was because of calorie breaches. I don't know that I did, but I just like the taste. This is amazing. Mm, quite nice. Oh, my God. Babe, it's definitely easy. Oh, you need to give me the recipe with this. It's BBC Good Food, babes. Because I use those really nice St. Hugh yolk eggs. What's that? Caraway seed. Right. So what will you be eating on Christmas?

42:56Christmas will be, we'll do a leg of lamb. We don't do turkey because turkey's, I'm sorry, bruv. Turkey's the worst meat. Turkey is dry. I love it. No. I'll have a turkey sandwich from Pratt, but I won't have an actual turkey. I don't know. What is it about it that you love? You and Girls Aloud love the turkey sandwich from Pratt. Yeah. I started the Girls Aloud fan society at my secondary school when I was 13. Did you? Yes. And you weren't out by that point. I was not out. I mean, come on. No joke. that's amazing we're going to do lots of meat so we'll do oxtail we'll do okay so there's this thing in the Caribbean called sauce that we eat on Christmas morning and it's like all the joints of the cow carry on and it's done with okra and like a stew when you have fried dumpling with it and it's like this so it's kind of like using like the broth yeah all the jelly bits is it delicious it's so lovely but to look at it, it can come out a bit hairy.

43:58Like, actually. Really hairy? Yeah. Because it's like the hooves and the... Yeah. Look. Fallow would like that, man. I think you should try it with your son. You couldn't even eat marrow. It's delicious. So we're probably going to have some sauce. We'll have chicken. We'll have fish. We'll have, like I said, lamb. Maybe beef as well. And then we'll do all the trimmings. and I think I'm going to do some d 'oeuvres. Will you cook any of it? I'll do the bar and I will point at what's going wrong. I'm with you. Perfect. No, to be fair, the food was so important to us. There's quite a few good cooks in the family, so I'm not worried.

44:35I think I'm going to have a good meal. When you start this theatre job, will you eat one of your mum's frozen meals? I will. That's the next time I'm going to eat one of her meals. Do you know which one you're going to choose? Yes. I've got one of her veg lasagnas from when I was vegan, so double-edged. I think I'm going to have that maybe before the first preview. It's a little like, good luck. But yeah, I'm going to have one of her meals. Really delightful. Working at Gary Rhodes, being a host, did you deal with some real tricky customers? Yes. Anything spring to mind? I remember someone asked me to debone their fish, and they presented me with a pair of tweezers in front of them.

45:16Did they bring their own tweezers? They brought their own tweezers. This lovely lady, who I thought she was lovely initially, she ordered the place and I said to her, it's going to be really bony because they're doing it flat and it's just coming as it's going to be really bony on the sides. She was like, it's absolutely fine. I'm sure I've got some tweezers. I was like, cool. I think they were actually for her eyes, but you know. And she was like, is this too much? I was like, I did say, but I'm happy to take it back to the kitchen. Customer's always right? Always. And she was like, no, you can do it.

45:45It's fine. And I was like, I started. I started to debone her place with her tweezers. And I was just like, I'm not paid enough for this. So I'm actually going to take it back to the chefs. And they were just like, just tell her to order something else. I want to know if you like karaoke. Oh, do I like karaoke? Do you know what? I do. What would be your song? People do, Jessie. No, you're right. My song, Donna Summer, Tina Arena, Enough is Enough. Tina Arena? don't you mean Barbra Streisand I'm in chains you were going to say oh my god call yourself gay get out of here Donna Summer Barbra Streisand enough is enough so who's going to sing the I'm singing both okay I'm singing both even if Barbara was in the room I'm singing both even if she would love you yeah just started her her audio book 48 hours she's really nice though you know like people use Harry Styles with the Calm app basically you can nod off and you come back and she's still in the same chapter so you don't feel like you've missed anything it's fine it's very nice well Kadif it's a pleasure I'm really glad that you got to meet Lenny I'm thrilled I finally disappointed no if anything I'm more in love with you now oh my god can I give ask you one more question you can indeed a nostalgic taste that can transport you back to somewhere happy or sad it would be climbing the kinnip tree in the Caribbean they're called Kinnips Kinnips, why are you oh sorry Kim, how to say the tree, no no no, Gwen calls them Kinnips, but Gwen is from Bahamas okay darling, thank you, they're like little hardball even, correct why don't we let Kinnip explain so for me I love you two, you two are amazing it would be climbing a Kinnip tree in the Caribbean, these wonderful it's like they're only locals in the Caribbean and they're like these little green things and you you cut the top off and it's like orange inside and you suck it off like lychee and it's so beautiful and it smells so fragrant my mom would take the leaves of the guinea if you're a smoker or vapor ready to make a change you really only need one good reason but with zin nicotine pouches you'll discover many good reasons zin is america's number one nicotine pouch brands.

48:05Plus, Zinn offers a robust rewards program. There are lots of options when it comes to nicotine satisfaction, but there's only one Zinn. Check out Zinn.com slash find to find Zinn at a store near you. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You dry them out and you can make a beautiful herbal tea with them and they were really, really delicious. Boilet and it was just, yeah. Can you ever get them here? You can actually, You can get them in Lusham. Yeah. I'll bring you a box around when I come around. Oh, yeah. I really want to try them. I will. They're stunning.

48:38Do you think they travel? They do. They do. They'll travel green and then by the time they get it, they'll be ripe. That's the Caribbean for me. I know we do bananas and all that stuff. The first time I ate a banana, I was 14. Why? So basically, my mum, when my mum was a teenager, there was a hurricane on the island that she was from and all the bananas fell off the tree. So they ate bananas for like three months. So she just could not stand a banana. like so yeah they were just never around in our house and then i finally tried them when i was like these are lovely oh my god she couldn't even look at me how often do you go i haven't been back since i was 11 i think should we all go please i'd love to revisit it and um say thank you to the island you know and on that note thank you khadiv for being on table manners and being gorgeous thank you both so much and thank you for that meal that was stunning no you're welcome i I would do that again.

49:32Yeah, we've got clean plates. Yeah, perfect. Would you like to take a little bit of cake for your other half? He'd love that. Okay, great. All right, thank you, Khadija. Thank you.

49:56Mum, didn't I tell you you were going to love him? Completely in love. he's the best human but not only that he made me feel small

50:07because he's so big sexy man yes yeah I love him I mean he never stops I don't think working very hard working very talented very kind can do everything can do everything yeah I love the idea of him with the tweezers doing the place taking fish bones out Khadiv Kirwan thank you so much for coming on and eating all the food and talking all the talk and also talking so beautifully about your mum Matilda and it was just really it was a real pleasure to have you on and have food and have food you can see Kadif in Slow Horses which the new season's out now you can also see him in This Way Up you can see him he's been in everything everything that's kind of a critically acclaimed British something or other This Way Up chewing gum I may destroy you this is going to hurt he's in everything and so i can't wait to see what happens wait to hear what what's happening at the national i know um exciting year for him thank you uh to kadif kowen for coming on thank you to mum for matching with me so we both look like we're butlin's hosts in that uh selfie with kadif and um thank you to australia for inspiring me and please can you have me back very soon i really think we should do a series in australia fine we'll see you next week it's the christmas special next week.

51:26With all the tips for your Christmas lunch. Yes and it's quite a Christmas cracker. Wow. It's a bonanza. I think it's one of the most exciting episodes. It really is. For Christmas. So if you need some ideas for Christmas we've got you covered with the creme de la creme of the cooking and chef world. They've all been on the podcast. They have. They're all friends to the podcast and they are all offering tips. The best tips for a relaxed, lovely, gourmet Christmas. We'll see you next week.

52:20Thank you.