Marina Hyde

0:03Hello everyone, welcome to Table Manners. I'm here with my lovely daughter Jessie. Hello, Mum. Hi, darling. Sorry, is this how it's going to go now? Yep. You're leading this one, aren't you? Yeah, because I could not be more excited. Pray do tell the listener, Mum. I have followed this person's column for almost 20 years. She's so clever. She's so funny. She's so insightful and so incisive. I hope she likes us, Jessie, because if we appear in her column, tomorrow we'll be in trouble. This is like where you really hold your own. Watch our P's and Q's, darling. Hold your own, like you are going to nail it, Mum.

0:50I'm proud of you. Well, we have got the fabulous, fantastic, clever Marina Hyde. And she's going to have something to eat with us. And I think she's going to talk about a new book. What Just Happened, Dispatches from Turbulent Times. It's a huge book made up of, I wonder whether it's her favourite column moments. It's got chapters on the royal family. Well, there's a very big section on Boris Johnson. You won't be surprised to know. I mean, there's a lot around the time of the pandemic. There's a lot about footballers. She loves football, you know that. Yeah, I know that. She writes football. And I agree with Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

1:29Thank fuck for Marina Hyde. is the quote on the front. Yeah. We've got Marina Hyde coming up. This is somebody that mum has been desperate to have forever. My mother-in-law bought this for me for Christmas, actually. Did she? Yeah. She makes you laugh out loud. Every day. She's so razor sharp. So sharp. What are you cooking, mum? Well, because we're still madly in love with Alison Roman, I've done her spatchcock chicken. Yeah, the one that she recommended. to do with paprika and lemon long schlep around the houses to get a spatchcock chicken where did you find it from moans in the end i've done rainbow chard and actually rainbow carrots and some smashed potatoes that i'm going to put some of the juice from the chicken on the top that's what she recommends and bakes it off slightly so it tastes nice yeah then as a tribute to my lovely friend Anne who made it yesterday because I had people for lunch I've made Nigella's olive oil and chocolate cake got some nice ice cream or mascarpone or even sour cream I've got cranfresh got fresh cream got sour cream and I've got raspberries to go with it I think we'll be all right okay so we had a really interesting email from one of the listeners and I feel like it's important to share this because it's a safe space and we love getting messages so this was an email it's subject just a quick one which I really hope you get this is very important obviously hi ladies I just wanted to say that I love listening to your show thank you very much your interview with Danny Minogue was great this week I'm from Australia so it was nice to hear the Aussie accent brilliant so far so good I need to tell you that I have a totally weird obsession with your podcast thanks and that is I love hearing you all talk with your mouth full I don't know what it is and people shouldn't talk with their mouth full do we talk with our mouth full I think you do sometimes Jess oh my god I think I don't because I'm lady okay well this lady Jenny loves it I don't know what it is and people shouldn't talk with their mouths full but for some strange reason i'm obsessed with it this is where it gets really juicy guys and we'll re-listen to interviews where i know the chewing is loudest yotam tom kerridge nigella and jamie oliver to name a few they're all chefs are they the ones that are chewing we need to get confirmation on this jenny is it us chewing the loudest or is it all chefs that chew the loudest it's us chewing it must be them i'm not sure if you'll get this No, we got it loud and clear, Jenny.

4:17But I really hope you do. And please don't stop talking with your mouths full. Love to you both, Jenny. Jenny, thank you. This is by far the strangest email we've had. And I don't know whether our other listeners would agree. And poor Alice, the producer, is so bereft with the fact that chewing a mouths full has even been caught because she tries so hard to take it off. So I now am quite intrigued. So we shouldn't wait for people. We'll just get cracking and eat right the way through the whole thing. Is this called ASMR? And maybe we could do a filthy Friday ep for everybody just with all the chewing and masticating.

5:01On that note, I'm going to base my chicken. Ooh, Lenny. Marina Hyde coming up on Table Manners.

5:16marina you are in clapham i'm you've got the seat next to lenny i am actually in pride of place honestly you don't know what a big deal it is for us i think it's a little bit of a bigger one for me thank you very much girl don't think so we've been so excited well i have the because i've always followed your column so very kind yeah don't read any of that nonsense but thank you no no no but I love it. And, well, I'm just going to get this out of the way. I was particularly touched last week about that column about the postal worker. Oh, my God, I keep writing about the post office. But we've got, I mean, it's the biggest thing.

5:52It's the biggest scandal. And people just can't believe it when you tell them the story. Tell the listeners the story. The story of the post office, which I hope more and more people should get. Everyone should know. Everyone should know, was that there was sub-postmasters and postmistresses, real backbone of... Happy Phil Road post office. Yeah, I mean, backbone of a Britain kind of people. A new system was imposed on them in the sort of noughties by the Post Office Central Management and created by Fujitsu that was faulty. But they didn't believe the post people when they kept saying that there's a fault.

6:25They kept making them pay back out of their own pocket or threaten them to prosecute. And in the end, because it kept going wrong, and they knew because they had so many people ringing in saying, I'm sorry, I mean, you know, I've never been wrong with my accounts ever before. and of course I haven't stolen£25 ,000. They prosecuted so many of them. 726 people were prosecuted. So instead of listening. But convicted. And convicted. And people were sent to prison. Like a lady who had a baby in prison. She was sentenced on her son's 10th birthday. She never thought she'd get custodial. She was sentenced.

6:56She went to Ashfield, which is really rough. On her son's 10th birthday, she had to be pulled out of the courtroom and taken. Put straight on to suicide watch. While she was there, she found a hanged body of a prisoner. Terrible things happened within the prison. She was right. She was innocent. She was completely innocent. So what's happening? They were all completely innocent. Nothing. There is an inquiry, absolute glacial pace of British justice. It's not even really actually a sort of public inquiry that's compelled to bring certain witnesses. And the CEO of the post office, while all of this is happening, was a woman called Paula Venels, who has yet to appear in front of the inquiry.

7:29And wasn't she elevated? Oh, she continued to fail upwards. You know, these people, she was given a CBE. She was brought into some sort of number 10 kitchen business cabinet she just continued she was an anglican minister she's now had to step back from all these things but it's the most horrendous story kill themselves oh yeah 60 are dead before they've ever been justice served at least four have killed themselves but can you imagine the frustration also that you know the and these tiny towns where these post offices were shut down yeah and they've I've never had a post office since. Yeah, I remember.

8:03Is that a trial or something? Because they said that she'd stolen money. It's the most extraordinary story, and everyone should be shouting for the rooftops. You have to think that if they trust computers over humans, then this is the sort of thing that really could happen if the system and the people who wanted not to say it was their own fault allowed these people to have, I mean, the most awful stories of imprisonment, and 19-year-olds in prison. And I mean, just absolutely dreadful what happened to them. Yeah, but it was such a good piece. I mean, normally everything you write makes me laugh, but that was so important.

8:39I mean, there aren't that many jokes, are there? And I have done it before and I will keep doing it. I will try and go to the inquiry. How is writing at the moment? Is it kind of... It's been a very rich vein for you, Marina. Really? Come on. Lenny, I've been drowning in material for... Drowning? Like, about eight years now. The whole government, the pandemic, the mismanagement. So even though it's been the misfortune for us, it's excellent for your column. It's been good for business. I don't mean actual business. No, no, of course. I mean just my business. Yeah, yeah, of course. But yes, but I mean, I would certainly sacrifice all that if we could just return to an even keel for sort of, you know, 15 minutes, I think we'd take, wouldn't we?

9:18Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in the old days, you would ignore the news for about two weeks. And then if you check back in with it, it'd be a little bit like Coronation Street. you missed a few episodes but you still know what's happening and now I used to feel like I mean I don't understand anything I've you know I've had to go under for a small surgery for two hours and now I don't understand anything this is what happened after Brexit it just continually there were about four news cycles a day and everything went crazy and the same happened in America and I think it's quite hard to see how things become this is such an awful word but sort of sane again but I think it's quite hard to see how things become you know something you can ignore for two weeks again.

9:55Strangely, Liz Truss was still smiling. Oh, I know. At the coronation. How did she get to it? She wished to be there. She'll be there forever, Jessie, at every event, at the cenotaph every year. Yeah, because she was a prime minister. Oh, 15 minutes. Someone said it's like when your sister gets married and you bring a girlfriend and she's in all the photographs and then you dump her and the most important day of your sister's life and there's the old girlfriend that you don't like. I've got the other way, my lovely mother-in-law, who you know I love dearly didn't allow me in any of the wedding photos of her and her husband my lovely father-in-law this was 20 years ago because she didn't think I was going to stick around well I'm still here Tess still here and I love you and she bought me your book so we do love her yeah we love you I wonder if you could be like I mean you could for one of the sort of big anniversaries have yourself re yeah kind of photoshop yeah sure yeah why not I mean why not i mean we bought each other everything by this stage if you're anything like our family bought each other by everything by this stage in our lives so you have to come up with a new present let's talk about family where where do you live now are you in london i live in nottinghill with all the other assholes and and i've lived there for gosh i mean really so long now more more than 25 years i'm jealous of you i i cycled there yesterday but i cycled there yesterday it's idyllic i mean it's really gorgeous and i'm i feel like a tourist when i'm there yeah i'm really near the park and it's lovely but yes i mean it has become in the in the length of time that we have lived there it's because you know i mean like a lot of pubs shut down i think people had and restaurants because i think people had private chefs but i think they're i think perhaps more of them are opening now but anyway it's uh but it but it is lovely so where are some of your top spots that you will eat out when you're not having a private chef at home oh well i tell you joke let me think okay well I'm not exactly no I am the private shit I do all the cooking so um where am I okay so my fit what my ones I love to go to I love to go to Fishers I love a schnitzel so it's my favorite I mean schnitzel's my favorite yeah I mean if we get on to Last Supper's okay it's gonna have a number of entries schnitzel's my favorite so I love to go to Fishers Fishers in in Maryland which I love you feel like you're abroad as well yes you do it feels continental Yeah, it's got a Viennese feel, hasn't it?

12:17I mean, yeah, it wasn't very like that in Vienna when I went, but it's like my Disney version of Vienna. Do you think you could serve schnitzel for brunch? Yeah. You could serve it at any... Yeah, with a neg on top. Yeah. The Holstein. The Holstein, yeah. How do you take your schnitzel, Maureen Hyde? I will take it all sorts of ways, and I make it all sorts of ways. Ultimately, I would like a Viena with the gravy, you know, whatever the gravy is, the nice one. I don't want to have the lingonberry or whatever it is. The gravy on the side, but ought to go all over. I've never had a gravy with my schnitzel.

12:49Oh my God, the gravy is really... The one at Fish's, yeah. The one that they do. Do you do fresh breadcrumbs or do you use panko? I do matzo sometimes. I do, yeah, matzo is, I do a lot. Medium matzo. And you're not a Jew, are you? I'm not a Jew. But that's quite unusual for a non-Jew to use matzo milk. But it's very good. Is it matzo milk that you're using? Yeah, medium. Okay. Ah. Or I do panko, then I do basically like katsus and things like that. Or you can do milanese with that, with all the, you know, with the parmesan. Or what else do I do? Oh, yeah, there's a really good Ottolenghi one that's just like about a million different seeds, which I feel is doing me the power of good.

13:25Oh, that is delicious. That's a really good one in the so-called simple book. Yeah, yeah. You know why it's called Ottolenghi's. Because it's simple for him. Yeah, I love it. What other versions of it do I can't even remember? You love a breaded chick. Yeah, I know, but it's really, I mean, I just, we have a version of schnitzel once a week in our house. Do your children eat it? They love it. How old are your kids? They love it. 12, 10 and 8. Okay, so you're the kids. I came from three, so I felt I had to have. That's what I did too. Yeah, I feel I have to have three. And do they all eat well?

13:56Yeah, they're all great eaters, thank goodness. Have they always been? Yeah, they have been pretty good. Yeah, they have been. I mean, I did sort of make them get on with it. And, you know, maybe that's wrong. We have to get some tips. Maybe that's wrong. I did what was done with me, which is he kind of had to finish it up. Well, Sam, my husband's doing pancake night because it's a Tuesday. I mean, it's definitely not Shrove Tuesday. He's doing that tonight. That's lovely. Yeah, it's really sweet. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, he's very good. When you aren't making a version of schnitzel, what would you cook for Lenny and I?

14:25If we were coming over, we don't need fancy pants. We just want like pure marina. I would probably cook. Okay, I would want it to be quite, I've got better over the years and not trying to do everything at the last minute and say no I must do the souffle you know like some sort of horrendous housewife it's all going to go wrong and whatever so I would have lots of things on the table I would do some form of chicken maybe I would do like flat iron chicken and hammer it out and do it on the griddle and then have a big plate of all of that and with you know lemon and garlic or whatever and then I'd have lots of salads and then I'd my husband I would always have to have some form of potatoes and some bread is your husband a journalist no he's not he works at the bbc but he's not a journalist he works on the sort of business i really don't it's a little bit like chandler and friends i don't quite know what he does imagine imagine how long we talk about my job every week what am i gonna write yeah i mean i'm dimly aware of what he does and he um yes he is he runs the bbc clearly did he big opening at the moment for a new person did he when you started going out did he tell you that he read your column no but we've been together forever this is it's my 24th wedding anniversary congratulations i was not i was like i worked as a temp i was a temporary secretary i mean actually i was too bad at typing my typing speed was too slow so i was a temporary receptionist when we met um and he did work at some sort of form of financial journalism company again i hazy on the detail how many years has your column been going now it's 20 it's been a long it's been a long time that I've, since, I think since 2005, I then had like my, I did the diary column in the paper before in the Guardian.

16:07I've got to ask a really important question. Which football team do you support? Chelsea. Sorry. Oh, I know. What can I tell you? I was doing so well. Have you heard me talk? Oh, my God. I know it goes, yeah. How did Frank Lampard come back? He's the crappiest manager in the whole of the Premier League. Is he coming back? He's back at Chelsea. He's back. Did that just happen? because the taxi driver said yesterday when I was driving to the theatre, he said, I really want Frank back. Oh, he can't. Well, he is back temporarily. Yeah, right. He won't win in 20 games. Yeah, for any club. He won't win for any club.

16:43Everton are definitely going down because of him. Yeah. Aye, aye, aye. So you support Chelsea. Well, you were always a Chelsea supporter. So where did you grow up? I grew up in Surrey, sort of on the Surrey-Sussex borders in the countryside with my parents who are still together and super fantastic. I'm the eldest of three girls. So my sisters are still my sort of best friends in the absolute world. Oh, that's nice. Yeah, they're fantastic. Yeah, so we're all really close. So I was really, really very lucky. But I went to a boarding school. Did you? I know, but I loved it, you see. Did you? I know, you see.

17:19I know it's very unfashionable to say it, but I absolutely... What age did you go at? 11. And I absolutely loved it. So which boarding school? It's a school called Down House, which is in Barclay. Oh, I know Down House. Yeah, yeah. And was the food good? Yeah. Well, do you know, I mean, I think now it'd probably be regarded by the standards of probably modern schools as not very good. But it was totally fine. We loved it. And it was a big thing, you know, of course, all the mealtimes. And we all sat with different ages. And you had to have sort of two girls from each year on your table. But I loved it.

17:51You know, you heard all the grown-up chat. You know, it was, I absolutely, I'm sorry to say, we had an amazing dining room. really old with all sort of paneled but then with a gallery all around it and a sort of big beautiful mural countryside sort of some sort of rural idyll on the back wall it was very unusual because the school looked quite unusual sort of halfway between a kind of convent and a prison but I really liked it but obviously it's not for everyone so I've as I've read quite a lot about and you've always spoken out so did you get in trouble at school oh my god I was in trouble the whole time but that's what was so fun you see it was sort of war really um and I loved you know you have that independence and you live with all your best friends and yes I was always so naughty I was always so naughty my eldest is just the same unfortunately now I'm having to say you know but my parents didn't really boss us around and tell us we I think they regarded the stuff that happened at school stayed at school I mean I hope I wasn't malicious but yes I was naughty but it was such fun you know trying to get away with it and when you came home what was the first meal your mum would cook when you said oh mum you know I really want such and such oh I can't even remember if she'd make us things up.

18:55We'd ask her to get things because I tell you what, my mother hates cooking. She did about five dishes in rotation. And if she listens to this, mommy, I, you know, I adore you, but you'd be the first to say that it's not your first love. But you know what? So she'd do about five dishes in rotation always, but we always talked forever and ever around the table. And sometimes, you know, we'd all bring home two friends. So my father would have basically, what does that make? 10 women and him. Poor son. Yeah, I know. But actually he really liked it. He's very outdoorsy And people, I think, always thought he wanted boys, but he didn't.

19:25He was thrilled to have girls. And was he quite political? Well, funnily enough, they were always interested in politics. But his father was an MP, was a conservative MP. And his father had been Frank Whittle's best friend. Whittle was the guy who invented the jet engine. And when Whittle had invented the jet engine, he started a company. My grandfather started the business for it, which was called Power Jets. And then they tried to get the government interested to fund, and they never really were very interested at all. And so they had a bit of a nightmare, but they kind of by ingenuity and drive and force of will obviously created this incredible world-changing invention.

20:03Not my grandfather, he did the business bit, but Whittle created this. And then straight after the war, Stafford Crips nationalized it for the Labour government. And he was really annoyed about that. He felt that, you know, we'd never had any help and it was annoying that their business was nationalized. So he went into politics, but you know his greatest friend was like his Labour pair and it was I guess it was just a different time in politics really. Have you got any political friends? Not really no I haven't and I've actually I don't I'm not friends with any politicians at all and I refuse I mean I don't think probably anyone want to be friends with me.

20:36No they probably don't but I did but I refuse all sort of invitations to drinks and things like that I've just always felt there was this old Guardian critic right back in the Manchester Guardian days Neville Cardis who was brilliant who said he never wanted to meet any politicians because it would dilute the purity of his hatred. And whilst I, you know, I know that's quite harsh, isn't it? But I do feel like if I would have had hung out with these people, and I know I'm actually really British, and if I had had a drink with them, I would think, oh, that's a bit awkward. I don't think I'd better say that because I saw them.

21:08You know, I don't know. I would just feel like I would just, I know I'd pull my punches or I wouldn't maybe, I'm not saying I see straight in the first place. I mean, I'm not trying to claim some great thing for what I write, but I just think I would end up being compromised in some way by myself. I would self-edit. Which politician has really vied for your friendship? I bet you Rishi Sunak has invited you to something. No, they don't. No, none of the Jories would Labour invite you to bits. They should be very careful. No, not really. I tell you what, I mean, actually, most of them... Are they scared of you?

21:40No, I do. I'm sure not. This is not going to work very well because I'm trying to do a visual impression on a podcast. but there was this one time I did see Boris Johnson at some, I can't remember what it was, and he saw me and he was like pointing from, you know, wherever he was on a stage. He probably fancied you, Marina. He was pointing at me and going like that, really glowering at me. Were you thrilled? No, I wasn't. I just thought, you're such an idiot. This is so uncool. Why don't you just pretend you've never seen it? You know, Orson Welles used to have this person who wrote about him, really mean things about him all the time.

22:10Not Walter Winchell, who was a big gossip columnist, but another guy in the New York Daily News who always used to write mean things about him. and Orson Welles used to say said every time I saw him I greeted him like an old friend just so he'd never think I'd read a single word he'd written and I really think why did Boris Johnson just like act like he'd ever seen any of it I mean it was such a show of sort of yeah weakness and smallness I mean just be cool just be like it really doesn't matter I'm the prime minister and you're some little dick who wants to the guardian so but he really showed a sort of I don't know I thought it was such an odd way of being.

22:45But it means that he reads your art. Someone tells him about it. I don't know that he reads very much, Jesse, people say. I think he's one of those people who's got that dangerous thing, which I actually think that King Charles has slightly got as well. Those people who wish they'd been born in another time and that they've come too late in the arc of history. And it would have been all right. If they were mid-century people. Now, Johnson kept thinking, oh, you know, I can't be like Churchill because what are my challenges? is but of course he got this enormous challenge in the shape of the pandemic which required him essentially to be on the television making a kind of walk of time broadcast every night and look how he handled it he was found completely wanting so he actually did have a kind of multi-generational you know one of the big challenges of the century in lots of ways uh so he had all the opportunity to prove himself and he proved himself in a certain way didn't he He didn't surround himself with the most able people either, did he?

23:41But I think he was the least able of all of them. I mean, really. I really do. He was flattered by them. Have you had to develop a very thick skin? No, I don't. No, I don't. Because do you... I don't care what anyone says about me. Oh, really? Really? Have you never cared about what people say about you? No, I did before I had children. Now I don't care. Oh. Now I don't care because now I've had children and I've actually become much more of a risk taker and I think anything good that I've ever written and all the other things that I'm doing in life that I think are good has all happened after I've had children now I'm only saying this because I get that lots of people it feels like it you know that their career gets limited after that or whatever and I'm just saying as a counterweight because you don't necessarily would hear this because it made me much more of a risk taker I also felt like oh I mean honestly with someone what does someone say something about you online I mean really who cares it's like you know this is not the real my real world is them and my real world is and it just really it's a terrible thing to say to have had three children to put things into perspective for you I didn't have them for that reason but it has been a lovely byproduct I really feel that and I feel I've taken so many more risks that I wouldn't have had the confidence to do because I in a way I just didn't mind failing so much because I felt like oh I see you know these guys are the important thing so I felt able to fail in a way or to risk failure in a way that I hadn't before have your editors ever been like you know what you can't put that in.

25:04You've taken it too far Marina. Oh no that quite often they'll query something on taste grounds at which point I have to say you know this is a resigning issue if this is removed like some actual ridiculous knob gag or something but just just as a point of principle but if it's quite query on taste. You don't get legaled. Oh no no. Lenny I'm never out of legal. Yes I know you are. Good okay. Because I remember in my acknowledgements to the Guardian legal apartment who I have a very special relationship but yes I do get legal but I actually don't have much trouble with legal anymore because I have learned over so many years how to get things into the paper rather than have them taken out of the paper so there's always a way that you can kind of slightly tweak it and essentially say to what anyone normal would look like exactly the same thing do you still enjoy your job yes look although I always like to do new things and I'm doing I'm doing new at the moment at the moment I'm you've got the book I'm doing yes I've got I'm doing quite a lot of TV writing in fact I've been doing some TV writing for a while I can imagine this, this makes sense so that's been, what like comedy?

26:08yes! sitcom, you know amazing! and that's been great, you know that is something that has been brilliant to do to be sort of frightened again can you talk about any of the projects? I've got one that's sort of coming up we're about to shoot the but the writer's strike has made a bit of trouble for it but we can still do our episode one which is called The Franchise which is for HBO and it's sort of behind the scenes on a superhero franchise movie which has been exciting I've been in this I mean this wonderful writers room with this incredible show this guy who's a showrunner called John Brown who's fantastic who writes and one of the big writers on succession and various other things and I really feel like we we've had to sort of we've got a hiatus now for our um the writers right but I honestly felt like I didn't really feel like I feel like this anymore like I really love these people there's seven of us and it's and two brilliant writers assistants actually but I feel like we're a little band of brothers and sisters.

27:02And I actually didn't think that it was still available to me, that feeling that almost like when you're 17 and you first go on holiday with your friends and you're like, oh my God, I've got this new thing that I'm, you know, it's been so fun. And exciting. Even though it's been like, I've sort of had to work two jobs, so I just have to get up so early in the morning, I have to get up at four or whatever, but it doesn't matter. But that's okay. Well, because I have to do the guardian job as well. Crikey. But then is this all on Zoom? No, we do it in the proper room. oh are they over here or you've been over there no we most of us are british there's two american women who are fantastic so most of us are british but it is but so we've done it here and we'll film it at leavesden do you think you've got a whole series in you for something else that's like a i've got a few deals on other whole series so i wish i can't go about this yes but anyway yes i've got a few sort of other things well no i hopefully i can keep going on all of it but it's been it's been really good to do something again where I was really sort of frightened again and to feel like oh my god I don't know actually know what I'm doing now um but you are so funny no everybody should know how funny you are I was very disappointed you're already you're gone you can float with marina a little bit more and I'll get through that oh this is so lovely I was so excited about coming

28:27well whilst mum is carving the old chicken let's talk about this last supper oh right yeah okay last supper starter main and i think it's pretty you're gonna find it pretty okay right drink i'm all i am a huge fan of all pre-meal drinks i really enjoy like yeah really big fan so i think I would I mean I do love a dirty martini but I think actually for this last supper I would go for a margarita oh yeah I love a margarita love a Rita I do love a dirty martini very dirty so what people call them now I thought it was Marks but you called them Rita no no I just I don't think any people are doing this and I don't think it's cool maybe they don't like that but I and I like my dirty martini so dirty that I have to always say can they be filthy yeah which is do you do vodka or gin gin oh okay yeah I do vodka What gin do you go for?

29:17Oh, I mean, I'm not that fussy. If I'm buying them at home, yes. I hate to say something. Oh, look at that. This is dry. Oh, shit. I promise you. Well, we're blaming Alison. But she said two and a half hours, and I took it dry. Do you want to make a little jute? There is no jute. It'll be sensational. Whatever. It'll be sensational. I'm so grateful. I do all the cooking, as I say, so this is so nice that someone else is cooking me Tuesday night. So you will make your own dirty martini at home? Yeah. I feel like I need to get to that level on a Friday night when we're lighting the candles for Shabbat that I've learned how to make a dirty martini.

29:51I don't know why I'm scared of it. Like vermouth. It's so easy. Is it? And you've got the olives in a jar in your fridge. And you're going... I'm not using the jar every week. No. I am using it every week, obviously, for dirty martinis. But you're just working all day. What kind of olives do you go for? I mean, I'm not that fussy. I want it to be in a jar so I can have the juice just tell me something where it dries out thank you for this it's so wonderful and then am I really helping myself? yeah yeah I would get the bottom bit because I think it's a bit dry wow I'm sorry okay so then the starter I can't make this myself someone's going to have to do this for me I am about to die presumably so it's yeah let's be honest Marina you're dying fine it is a tuna carpaccio oh I'm just not that good with my knife work so I'm going to have to have someone do that for me okay and my choice of person to do it is whoever does it at La Familia in Chelsea which is oh I love La Familia it's my birthday on Saturday we're going there for Sunday lunch because that's what I want is it it's still going it's survived no the daughter has made it incredible out the back oh good They had a little sort of area that was like a sort of, I mean, I assume just a horrible old...

31:13It was Kylie's favourite. Now they've made it so nice out the back. It's all sort of Italian families, basically, and us out the back on a Sunday. Oh, fab. That would be fun. Yeah, so that would be nice. Okay, so I'd get them to do the tuna cop. Oh, thank you. I'd get them to do the tuna cop at you. Now, for the main course, possibly controversial. But the reason I cook a version of this as well as schnitzel every single week is because it is really comforting and I love it. And what's the point of saving it for best the night before you die? I will always have a form of roast chicken every single week.

31:46And I think, actually, I can dick around with saying, oh, I'd like someone to flambe this and flambe that. But actually, I think for my last supper, I'd quite like to be comforted. And I would have a form of roast chicken of one type or another. And then for my pudding, I would have something like some great blousy thing, like a lemon pavlova. I love a pavlova. maybe a pavlova, a meringue, something like that. A thing that's kind of heavy and light at the same time and like a sort of just a confection. That was very decisive. Well, OK, but there's a lot of other things I could have as well because I absolutely love food and I live to go.

32:23I do a midweek roast. Yeah, I never do it on Sunday. And I really love it and the kids love it. I don't think it is. You're being very, very self-critical. What do you think, Jess? I'm saying nothing. No, it's dry. It's okay. I'd like to know who would be around your last supper, and I'd like to know which politicians you would have around your last supper. Have I had to have them? Yeah. I think I'd have to be delving back in history, don't you? You'd have to know. I think I'd be on, you know, sort of Thomas Cromwell and Bismarck and those guys, wouldn't I? I think, you know, Emmeline Pankhurst.

32:56I think we'd have to be going back in history. I'm really sorry because it's really horrible when people say, you know, do you see anyone among politicians at the moment to give us hope? and it feels so negative to say, well, I'm sorry, I don't really. Probably there's some fantastic people on the backbenchers who haven't sort of surfaced into our public consciousness yet and maybe they're wonderful. There's no Tories left. But I have to say that I think it's, consequently as well, I think none of the big ideas are happening in politics. All the big ideas are happening in things like international aid and really the voluntary sector is incredible dealing with some of these enormous challenges that the state has kind of failed.

33:31Tech, obviously. all these big ideas are happening somewhere other than politics. Ed Miliband. Do you think it would be like tech leaders leading the world soon and going into politics? Do you think? No, I'll tell you what. I think they already do in lots of ways. I think that they would see the sort of, a bit like Murdoch really, has always seen prime ministers as sort of junior personnel. And I do think that Mark Zuckerberg for a long time was thinking I'll run to be president. And he even went on some hilarious, like I will be doing a listening tour in Iowa, Pennsylvania. I was like, what? Okay, are you running for president?

34:04He went and sort of stood at truck stops. And I think after, and people were like, okay, he's definitely running at some point, even if it's in whenever it was. And then I think he just thought, why would I do this? I mean, I'm so much more important than, you know, president of the United States. We've had a really weird email. A shout out to Jenny. This one's for you. I've got to speak with my mouthful. I'm true. Someone's written to us, say they love us speaking with our mouthful. It kind of turns around a bit of exciting. Oh, it came from Jenny, who's Australian. I didn't think that. Can I say, this would have been fine if it wasn't spatchcock, if it had been a whole chicken and kept the moisture in.

34:43Can I just say to your listeners, this is so much more than fine. This is absolutely delicious. It's really yummy. You'd be thrilled to have this on a Tuesday night. It's actually very tasty. It's delicious. So have you had many kitchen disasters? Not really. Now, I taught myself to cook because I didn't have it from your mother. my mother wasn't totally interested in cooking so i taught myself to cook really sort of late i suppose i suppose i started in my early 30s or i had done it a bit before but i really taught myself and now i cook every night and i really think about it all all the time and it's a big part of everything i set a hell of a lot of alarms on my phone because i i that is my disaster area thinking there's no possible way i could speak in 12 minutes i won't remember to take these biscuits out but unless I set an alarm on my phone believe me they will be destroyed so things like that I have to thanks to the development of the iPhone I have to avoid do you bake a lot yes I do I bake a lot and I I mean I do it all a lot I suppose I don't make my own bread I always feel like I have done it but I always feel like weirdly considering I will do quite complicated things by this humble thing I feel quite intimidated but I wonder why do you You know what my friend said she was going to do, she was going to get a bread maker, because her sisters have bread makers, and so they have fresh bread every day.

36:03That's the last thing I need. She says it's really good. Some more chicken. Marina, have it up yourself. And she says it's really good, but I'm like, is it going to be a bit like the air fryers? Is it just going to sit on the side and gather the dust? I'd like an air fry. Have you got an air fry? No, I'm sworn against big things on the side, unless they really sing for their supper. You know what? It was a bit dry, but it was very tasty. It had a kind of Portuguese piri-piri thing about it, even though it wasn't spicy. There was hot paprika, smoked paprika, two, well, I put three garlics grated, olive oil, pepper, and fennel seeds that I ground up.

36:43The thing is that we've done the slow roast the other one. Jessie, we've done this one with tomato and oregano, and you just shove it all in. For two and a half hours or something. Two and a half hours. Is it spatchcock? No. No. don't worry it was whole and it's delicious it's really good I might have to take the recipe off that one can you give me the recipe yeah okay mum what have we got I think that you're going to redeem you're going to redeem yourself now this is Nigella chocolate and olive oil it's moist in the wise words oh is this the chocolate olive oil yeah I've really wanted to try this and I haven't I haven't tried it I've got the book yeah as Rick Astley would say it's moist and he would like that very much hold on a second that's your spoon chocolate and olive oil cake with raspberries you've got some Kelly's ice cream or you've got some cream or you've got sour cream what are you going to go for it's tough actually you can have a bit of both I can have a bit of everything can't I maybe I'll try the thing first and then decide what I most want to do with it if that's not very rude Mr Kelly we love Kelly's ice cream because when I was a child in Cornwall sorry I just do my hands we always went on our summer holiday for two weeks to Cornwall, to a place called Harlem Bay.

37:57And Mr. Kelly's van was on the beach. Oh, wow. And in the afternoon, we were all allowed at Mr. Kelly's. And so I've got a real crush on Mr. Kelly, basically, because of that. Oh, don't tell me you're going to tell me this is no good now. No, it's like a sexy... Right. It's like a sexy... What are those... I love it. Those cakes that you can make in a pack. What are they called? Like the devil fudge cake. Betty Crocker. It's like a sexy Betty Crocker. Fuck off. Is it? That's not a bad thing. What do you mean it's not a bad thing? This was made from scratch, you fool. I'm saying it's a sexy Betty Crocker.

38:31Oh, my God. See what you... You'll see what I mean. I've had it yet. It's made with grand almonds. Sexy, sexy Betty Crocker. Betty Crocker's never seen an almond in her life. She's an ultra-high process. I do know what you mean, slightly. Oh, thank you.

38:53who wants some more Betty Crocker it was really delicious I loved it but I don't do you know it's only made with cocoa I know it's amazing isn't it I never it's like a strange how much sugar and cocoa and olive oil how much sugar not that much so it's actually good for us it's not that overly sweet no it's not that overly sweet it's really delicious I absolutely love it will you take it home for Sam please yeah we've talked about Mr Kelly on the Cornish beaches, but is there another nostalgic taste that can transport you somewhere? Oh my gosh. Well, I'm afraid it's, for me, it's so many of those weird, like, sweets, penny sweets, all of those, everything.

39:30Toffee, bonbons, oh my God, lemon sherbets. My children, if we ever go to some little town now, my children will smell out an old-fashioned sweet shop from a million miles. And I'm like, can we go, can we go? Oh, of course we can go. I'm literally just trying to get there as quick as possible. I love all those, the chocolate limes, any of those sweets. They're so, God, they can take me back anywhere. Although another thing that every time I smell it, when you get an English strawberry, a British strawberry at the start of the season. Yeah, and they're really delicious. And I'm always right back in a pick your own with my mother on my knees in the straw when we were all little.

40:06Eating more than you put in the basket. Yeah, eating far more than you put in. And you've got juice dripping down your mouth. Yeah, I'm always, if you smell one of those, then I'm just back in those fields on my knees in the straw, always. You are good, Marina. Every answer you've given us, you've delivered. I don't think I have. You absolutely have. And you're warm and fabulous and brilliant, and we're so thrilled to have you on today. Oh, my God, thanks so much for having me. I can't wait to watch the TV shows that you will be putting out. Oh, well, I wouldn't go that far, Jessica. Do you think you'd like to have dinner with Gwyneth Laltrow?

40:40Oh, God, yeah. With one of her candles burning in the background. Yeah, the fanny one. Yeah, absolutely. Listen, I will tell you that one of the great things about being a writer is that you get this kind of get-out-of-jail-free thing to just go anywhere and say, oh, I had to see what it was like. So, I mean, I don't really turn anything down on principle at all. In fact, many of my greatest regrets in life are things I've turned down on principle. Did you start your journalism at The Sun? Yes, but I was the secretary. I was a receptionist. Oh, you were a receptionist. It was completely by accident that I've ever become a journalist.

41:15But looking back, lots of things in life, it makes sense. What did you think you were going to be? Because Jessie thought she was going to be a journalist. I didn't know, I'm afraid to say. I'll tell you what I did think I was going to be, which is that until I was 18... A singer. No, I wanted to go into politics. I wanted to be the Prime Minister. I wanted to go into politics. And when I got to university, I went to Oxford, and I thought, oh, this thing, the Oxford Union, everybody joins and they will, you know, this is a big political thing. because it'll be really interesting. Yeah, it'll be really interesting.

41:42And I went to the Freshers' Fair and you could sign up for one year or for three years. Yeah, obviously I signed up for three years, gave all my money away. And when I got into it, I just thought, oh my God. I mean, immediately, immediately, from the very first time I attended, I was like, oh my gosh, every scale fell from my eyes. And I thought, this is what people in politics are like. And I knew immediately that I didn't like have a bad crop or whatever, or whatever. It was just like, I hadn't fully understood what it would be like. You are political. Yeah, so I'm interested. But then immediately I had absolutely no interest and it killed all of it.

42:14And I mean, actually, some of these people... Was it a boy's car? No, I mean, there were people like Liz Trout. She was in it. Oh, my God. The same year as you? Yes, but I mean, I saw these people twice in my life and then just thought, this is just... And only the second time because I paid three years of money. But she was left wing then, wasn't she? She was in the Liberal Democrats. I mean, I don't really know. I think they just had the politics of getting ahead, if I'm really honest. I don't think there were any positions where, as you can see, I think they were rather lightly held. Did you ever go to house parties with those trash?

42:44No. Although, funnily enough, someone told me, a friend of mine at Cambridge, Kwasi Kwarteng was a friend of a friend of theirs, and he'd come round to their house one time, and he went to a student party at their house when he was a student, and he stayed on their sofa and he vomited all over their sofa. And do you know what he did in the morning? What? He simply got up and walked away. What did he fucking do? And I feel in many ways we all still live in that sofa, don't we? Right now. Yes. Metaphorically. He formatted and walked away. After what he did last year. Do we not all at some level live down the crackdown that's over?

43:17Marina Hyde, thank you so much for joining us and just being... Sorry about the dry chick. It was absolutely... And the inordinate, she's thrilled. She might write a column. She may be a bit pissed now. She might write a column tomorrow about my dry chick. Oh my God. It would only be a hymn to you both. Okay, thank you. I can't thank you enough for having me. It's such a joy.

43:51I felt like that was a really good one, Mum. I'd like that to have stayed for a week. The picture that I've got of you is like the look of love with you two. She's looking at you like she's so proud to gossip with you. so proud that you're her new friend I loved her she was better than expectation except for one thing Chelsea it's not you Marina it's a nightmare that was the only thing that let her down I really really enjoyed having Marina hide over I think she's fantastic I think that everyone should read her words her book. But I can't wait for the TV. She's so witty. The new TV shows are going to be fantastic.

44:42Marina Hyde's What Just Happened is out now on paperback. It's also on hardback. It's Dispatches from Turbulent Times. Thank you for getting us through it with your wit and words Marina. What was that? That was the chair but it sounded like... Oh god I thought you had wind. Christ. I thought she's let herself go here. oh god um i'm sorry it was um betty crocker no it was nice it was really nice didn't taste like that yesterday hers was more dense that was quite light wasn't it i thought it was delicious no butter no dairy no dairy dairy free no dairy and no gluten that is a great thing for people that are dairy free and gluten free i'm neither of those things mother good thank god for that thank you for listening Jenny I hope that satisfied you with the eating with mouth masticating and please listeners please send your complaints about mouths being full at hello at tablemannerspodcast.com we'd love to hear from you thank you so much for listening and we will see you next week

45:58You