Martin Freeman

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1:57Am I okay? I've been dealing with children with tummy bugs. Very long tummy bugs at the moment. I don't know if anybody else has had that one. That was fun. I've been writing songs. I went to a new opening, One Club Row, which was really cool. Really good spot. This guy who used to live in New York, one of the restauranteurs, and then the other guy is the guy who, the guy, his name's James, has Camberwell Arms has Frank's in Peckham has Bambi in Hoxton lots of London places I'm sorry guys but yeah One Club Road was really cool it was where the Le Trois Gasson used to be was that? yeah Le Trois Gasson the three interior designers is in that building they've made it into a pub underneath that does really good chicken and then they've done a really nice restaurant upstairs and they're going to like have a pianist there and stuff it's very New York had a delicious martini also shout out to Pappy that I went to 40th in Hackney annoyingly lots of very good restaurants are in Hackney and that's quite inconvenient for me but Pappy and their fried chicken have you been in at all this week?

3:04I thought all your children were sick and you've eaten out three nights that was on Saturday thank you very much a lunch time where you had the children thank you Lenny and one was on a Tuesday and I got my birth chart done, astrology chart but yes I have been dealing with sick buckets as well, is that okay? Are you judging me, Lenny? Not judging. I'm just looking at the work-life balance here. Yeah, it's fantastic at the moment, actually. I'm loving it. I never want to go on tour ever again. So we have Martin Freeman coming on the podcast today. He is in a new play that was in Edinburgh two years ago with Jack Loudon.

3:41Can you just say how excited I am to see this iconic actor? I don't know. You can say it. Okay, fine. I'm going to say it. How excited are you? Very, very, very. Because I think he's an immense actor. Incredible. When you think of all the different parts he's played. You know, from... Tim from The Office. Tim from The Office. Did you watch The Office? Of course I did. Oh, right, okay. Bilbo... Is it Bilbo Baggins he is? Yeah, yeah. What's the other bloke from Sherlock? Watson. He was Watson. He was Watson. He was Watson. He was with our mate Daisy Haggard. In Breeders. In Breeders. Which is his baby, actually, I think.

4:20I think he kind of created that one. Fargo, the very interesting Minnesotan accent. And now he is going to... The responder. He was in the Pinter season. He played with Danny Dyer, didn't he? I think they were in the play together. We'll ask him about that. So we'll ask him about how he felt about Danny's pauses, Pinter pauses. And now he is going to Soho Place, the new theatre in Tottenham Court Road, and playing opposite Jack Loudon from, well, Jack Loudon who is... In Slow Horses. Slow Horses, husband of... Saoirse. Saoirse Ronan. Yeah. And now the new Darcy mum. I know. Anyway, so Jack and Martin are in a new play.

5:04But also Jesse the Responder. Oh, yeah, the Responder. He's up for the BAFTA for the second season. Yes, I know, because he's so wonderful in it. He's so good. That is a very heart-breaking show. But it must, I wonder if he was depressed playing that part. We can ask him in a minute. He'll be in five minutes. And that Scouse accent. Oh, the Scouse accent was amazing. Amazing. The script on that is just so good, the stories. But he's coming here to talk about the new play that he's starting this summer with Jack Loudon at Soho Place, and it's called The Fifth Step. I just hope he likes the meal, because I couldn't get tickets on the night I wanted.

5:41You text me, like, do you want to go to this? Absolutely, yes, couldn't get tickets. It's sold out probably in a second. And so, yeah, I think it starts in May. Do you think we can schmooze a bit, Jess? Absolutely. Bottle of wine, that'll do it. It's slightly worried that he's given us forewarning he won't eat dessert. I'm interested about this. Does he have to get his kit off in the show? I think when he sees what I've made, he thinks, fuck it, I'm having it. Let's see how much self-restraint he has. And let's respect that. If he doesn't want it, I will respect that willpower. Right, right. What have you made, Mum?

6:16So I've done a lamb recipe from the Sunlight and Breadcrumbs. Your favourite. Good old Renee Dickson. And so it's got, it's kind of been marinating all day in ginger and savoury leaves. Do you know what savoury leaves are? Well, it's, you can put any sort of kind of normal sage and things like that. So it's olive oil, garlic, as you can, I think, smell throughout the house. anchovies and ginger and it's on the lamb so i've made that and i've done these potatoes from georgina hayden's love georgie so which one which which cookbook it's a greekish yeah so they're they're like little sliced potatoes that you stand up and then you put olive oil lemon and fresh oregano on them yum and they're in the oven baking away gorgeous that's quite greek Like syphilis, greens.

7:13And then I've made a salad of courgette, carrot and walnut. We're done in yoghurt. Yeah, I think it's quite nice. Mum, you've really pushed the boat out. I have for Martin. You really want those tickets. I really want the tickets, Jess. And then... For the pudding that Martin's maybe not going to have. It's a tart recipe. Yeah. Which is a Spanish lemon cake. You make it without butter. It's done with olive oil, lemons. It's got rosemary in it, and then on the top is cream, mascarpone, honey. Plenty. Yeah. He's missing out if he doesn't have a bit of pud. Well, listen, on his off-menu, his final thing was a lemon meringue pie, so I feel like it'll be hard for him to...

7:58The lemon, yeah, I think it'll be hard for him to resist. They know. Martin Freeman coming up on Table Manners.

8:12Cheers. Cheers, darling. L 'chaim. L 'chaim, very nice to see you. Nice to see you. I must mention one thing, since we're talking about sex. Oh, yeah. Did you know that Jason Isaacs, you know when he does the full frontal, that's prosthetic? I would imagine so. I'm so upset. No, I would think so. It's one of those weird things that even though it's probably a good likeness, I just don't think you can have someone's knob on the table. Did he have his willy out in White Lotus? he opens his and all his children go it's open yeah so his robe is open and you see you know you saw it didn't you you see a penis yeah do you know Jason no he's really nice he's really nice but it's very it's been interesting the whole White Lotus thing because I was thinking about like I mean not that I read the Dome out at all no you work for it don't you you just have a column yeah I'm 3am so does Jason yeah yeah but I was like they're trying to make a whole thing about like this riffs because of something that Jason Isaacs said about it being like Lord of the Flies and like summer camp because it was kind of you were living and breathing and you were living in this resort everyone hated each other they didn't get on no but I was I listened to your off menu episode which was really lovely and you were talking about like method well there was a Jim Carrey thing was it Man on the Moon yes and you had things to say about that I did and I sort of I only partially regretted because I meant everything I said about that particular thing I actually really like Jim Carrey he's made me laugh a lot and I don't know him but he's made me laugh more times than he hasn't and I do think he's really good it was just that particular thing of that particular method he thinks doesn't float my boat I mean I now want to watch that so I'm going to go and watch it it's a very interesting documentary but I was thinking because it was Walton Goggins apparently was very method in the White Lotus and we're not just going to talk about method acting on food podcast yes but I was just thinking like that would be that would suck you're like basically on holly bobs for like seven months like have a good time bro I remember someone said I can't remember who it was it was someone with a good turn of phrase or someone made the very good point of why does no one ever stay method when you're not being a cunt like why does no one stay in character really really hard when they're just being lovely and fun I mean it's always when you've got to be serious yeah yeah yeah no seriously do you do any method acting not I thought with a capital M.

10:36I think... The Responder. So good. Thank you very much. So amazing. I stay in the zone and I stay in the accent all the time. I mean, not when I go home, you know, but from pick up to rap in the course of a day from the moment I get in the car to the time that we've rapped for the day. I stay in that just because it's easier. But I don't demand that everyone calls me Chris. I don't think I'm an actual copper. When you're in America, do you keep your American accent going all the time? Always. Yeah. For the same amount of time. Hannah's my sister who's an actress. And she said she has to speak an American accent because she just starts to think in an American accent.

11:14You do your whole rhythm. It is partly that thinking and talking to yourself in whichever accent you're doing, I think. It just helps. It helps internalise it. Where was Fargo filmed? It was filmed in Calgary in Canada, in Alberta. Oh, right. Yeah, so it was set kind of Minnesota, but it was filmed in Calgary. it was funny because my friend has just started on EastEnders and she's playing Vicky Fowler and she gave me a voice note, we were talking about our friend who's been a bit unwell and she was giving me a voice note and she sounded like Vicky Fowler when she was there, she was like, alright babe yeah so like, and I was like babe, I think it's brilliant because she was on set so it made sense yeah, you do feel, or I did anyway I felt a bit not pretentious but I felt slightly twattish if I would have to be calling home to my kids I remember my kids were quite young when I was doing Fargo or if I'm speaking to my agent or my missus or whatever and you're doing it in the act but if you've got 10 minutes off and you're in your trailer you don't want to then come out speaking like this when you then have to go back in 10 minutes speaking like completely somebody else making different shapes with your mouth and your tongue and your lips I never ever want to watch something that I've done full stop, no, I never want to watch something I mean, I've done and think I should have done that better.

12:33I mean, I'd always want to, you know, just want to be specific. Do you watch your stuff? Yeah, I will always watch everything once at least. And sometimes I genuinely do like things I've been in, some of them. But I will always watch something once, even if I don't like it, because I find it instructive. You know, I just think, OK, what didn't I like about that? What did I like about that? What are you proudest of? Would you say? I think being here.

13:02I'm proud of a few things I've been genuinely honestly very fortunate in that I have done several things that are up my street taste wise the office was up my street taste wise I love Fargo I like Sherlock I like The Responder I like Black Panther and I like you know I like The Hobbit there's lots of things I think yeah I'd watch that I'd watch that is there something you'd really love to do or a part you'd really love to play that you haven't quite done yet. Or one that's been on telly that you were like, fuck, I should have done that. That bloody part. I think there are lots of things that I see over the last 25, 30 years that I think, oh God.

13:40I like being jealous of people in a good way. Because I don't think any of us are going to pretend we're not faulty human beings who have all the vices. Jealousy is one of them. It's like, well, of course you're jealous sometimes. I like it when you're jealous and you think, good for you, mate. That was fucking great. We are here to talk about food and we want to talk about where it all, well, can you paint the picture of your dinner table? Who was around it in your childhood? And what were you eating, a memorable dish? Without trying to play Oliver Twist, I wasn't, I had a slightly... Which is your favourite musical, isn't it?

14:18Oliver is easily one of my favourite musicals. I love that you put West Side Story on your Desert Island Discs, by the way. I think it's one of the greatest things that's happened in the 20th century. I really do. Oliver or West Side Story or both? West Side Story, just. Oliver is, you know, that's Premier League, always top four. But West Side Story, I think, is one of the greatest things that mankind's ever produced. I really do think that. I really do think it's that good. It's wonderful. It's amazingly good. Did you like the first one? the second one by a country mile you know the answer yeah yeah and God bless him you know I mean I love Spielberg and it was really good but that's it's really watchable it was very watchable but it's just ingrained it's just ingrained into my soul that's the I've got a big framed poster of Rita Marino up in my kitchen oh really yeah an old poster of West Side Story it's the best it's just it's amazing like every single strand of it the choreography see Natalie Wood She wouldn't be allowed to be.

15:23No, not a chance. Not a chance now. No way. Nor would George Chakiris. Nor would George Chakiris, because he was Greek, I think. He was Greek and she was wasp. Yeah. Have you ever been able to do it? Did you ever do it at drama school? No, I haven't. No, I haven't. I used it as an audition to get into drama school. Did you? Who were you? No, I sang the Jets. Boy, boy. I sang the Jets song. I sang the Jets song. Yeah, of course. Or When You Were a Jets. Yeah, When You Were a Jets. Okay. I sang that. I can imagine you being really good at that. I'm glad you can imagine that. Let's just keep it as your imagination.

15:56I'm liking you, Martin, because you're a serious, important actor, but you like musicals, and I always trust so many that likes musicals. I do. However. No, no, I do. But I realise that there's a caveat to that in a little way, and I'm not trying to backtrack on that, because I think a brilliant musical is a brilliant thing. It's a wonderful thing. And I'm always a little bit, come on, when people go, oh, I hate musicals, do you? All of them? Yeah, exactly. It's like there are terrible musicals, they were terrible plays yes but no I think it's I you know I like Bernstein I like Sondheim you know I mean I I like other people too but I think Sondheim there's a whole load there's a strand of modern musicals yeah let's I'm gonna just go out there let's go I'm gonna go out there post-rent musicals yeah the i-classes why did Sondheim bother kind of musicals like just lots of talking like this we're going to have some dinner fuck off man yeah write a proper score yeah write proper music absolutely with you like that kind of something that you'd knock up in the sixth form common room in about 20 minutes we're having dinner I'm going to do that as our theme tune I'm going to literally that's going to be our outro we're having dinner we're having dinner and I look and I just think why did Sondheim bother because apparently you know you don't need to write beautiful semi-classical music you know what mum never got me into Sondheim because you have an issue with him and I feel like you've I feel like you've denied me a whole I did see Into the Woods and I did see...

17:22You denied me this, though. I haven't seen Merrily We Roll Along. That was fantastic. That was the first thing I ever did in youth theatre in Tango. I wished I'd done that. When I was 15. Wow. I haven't seen it. That's quite epic. It is quite epic. But it was 1987 and it was a kind of failed Sondheim musical. So it wasn't a successful one and it was a much lesser known one. Who did you play? Oh, no one. I was like one of the people, you know, one of the cast, one of the chorus doing various bits. And I was 15. I had a kind of Andy Warhol flick, just as me. You know, me. I had a big wedge haircut.

17:55I was tiny. I mean, you can imagine. I wasn't the giant of a man I am now. You know, so I was small. And there was not an ounce of anything on me when I was 15. And I was just like a rabbit in the headlights. I loved it. I loved it. And then we went to Berlin with that. We took it to Berlin for a youth festival. And it's at West Berlin. And then we had a day trip in East Berlin. And then we went back to Berlin four years later with Blood Brothers. Oh, wow. And in the interim, we went to the Soviet Union, as was then. Wow. 1989, we went to Kiev. This is the National Youth Music Theatre. No, it wasn't.

18:29It was Youth Action Theatre in Teddington. That was my playground. So where did you grow up? Teddington, right? Yeah, Servant in Teddington. Yeah, around that way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was born in Aldershot, but I kind of threw out my life, moved further into the suburbs. And yeah, I was a suburbanite, you know, green bit of London. Teddy's quite nice. Let's talk about that dinner table then. Who was around the dinner table? Well, when I was much younger, yeah, my parents had split up when I was very young. I'm the youngest of five. So, and I'm, I'm quite the youngest. So I'm six years between me and the next one.

19:12So it was, it was quite fractured. And again, this is where I come, not being Oliver Twist, so I'm not trying to paint a poor me picture at all, because I was very loved, thank God. What did your dad do? He was, by inclination, a painter. An artist? Yeah. Yeah, not a painter and decorator. He wasn't a painter and decorator, no. So he went to art school, I guess, in the early 50s. And then the twin loves of his life were the sea, because he was also in the Navy, National Service. It's him and his twin brother, National Service in the Royal Navy. And painting. And alcohol, which is why. Okay. Which kind of wasn't very good for him.

19:51But yeah, I spent a long time really with my dad. Because when my mum and dad split up, I was actually with my dad for a long time. And then I went with my mum. So yeah, it was kind of a bit fractured. There was a dinner. There was a table. But I don't remember. There wasn't like a whole family around it. Not my first memories. Did your mum work? Yeah, she worked as all sorts. as all sorts of things. Did she meet him at art school? Were they both arty? No, she was quite arty, but they didn't meet at art school. I think she met him at a party in North London in probably 1956. Were they kind of art school?

20:28Do you know how art school-y people dress? A bit beatnik-y? No, I don't think they were beatnik. They weren't that cool. Okay. And I think maybe they were slightly... I mean, my dad was born in 1930. My mum was born in 1933. So maybe they were a few years older than the Beatniks then would have been, I think. Okay. But they grew up in the 50s. Yeah, they were. That was kind of their young years. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my dad... Yeah, so my dad would have been out of the Navy. They met... But he had to do military service. He did, yeah. And he loved being in the Navy. Him and his twin brother went round the world and, you know, had a good time.

21:04So they both enlisted together? I think so, yeah. How sweet. Yeah, I've seen... And did they look alike? Oh, they were what they call mirror twins. Oh, my God. So the party was on the other side. Yeah, yeah. But they both died fairly young. Oh, Shane. They both died fairly young. What all? Alcohol. Oh, bloody hell. Yeah, yeah. Maybe being in the Navy. Well, there was a tot of rum with everything. Yeah, everything. That was part of your rations. Yeah, I mean, like a lot of people at that time, I guess, drink was totally a thing. It was just a thing. It still is. It is. It is. It is. And cheers.

21:39Cheers. I'm just going to finish my another vat of wine. So not necessarily memorable. It wasn't the Waltons around the table. Even though there were lots of siblings. Lots of siblings. They were kind of everywhere. Yes, and lots of, you know, genuinely, I have to make this clear, there was lots of love, but it wasn't, we weren't all together. What is a memorable dish or, yeah, a meal that you remember from your childhood, eating a lot of or liking? I remember one thing that I knew how to ask for when I was probably about five, And this, again, without being all of a twist, walking back from the pub with my dad, because I used to go to the pub with my dad a lot, he said, I think he said something like, what do you fancy for tea or something?

22:22And I remember it coming out of my mouth, going, this is a sentence I'm saying. I said, beef burger, chips and peas, please. And I thought, that sounds good. And I must have had it before. I can't have just invented that in my head. So I liked beef burger, chips and peas. I loved spaghetti bolognese. and the next day. I always love cold spaghetti the next day. Loved it. Still do, actually. So those were early ones for me. Was your mum a good cook? She was okay. She was all right. She said that, you know, I think my dad was horrified because he met my mum. You know, they were married in the late 50s.

22:58Women were definitely supposed to be able to cook. My mum was one of 14. What? So... Are you Catholic? Yeah. Okay. So... just trying to work that one out so

23:14I think he just thought and why wouldn't you well I've married a woman she'll be able to fucking cook and she could sort of cook but not really I think certain bits of knowledge got kind of skipped over various bits of that brood of kids and I think my mum was just like I think but she was working as well she was working and she wouldn't have called herself you know again she was born in 33 she wouldn't have thought of herself in as any like she she didn't self-mythologize so she wouldn't have said well i was a proto-feminist but i think she sort of was in in her head in a way that she was like why should i cook for you i think she probably thought that like genuinely yeah what the fuck you've got two arms i think there was part of her that was like that so um he'd been in the services he'd been in the services so everyone makes your food for you and he also he was from up north originally he had a very traditional working class background I suppose, where understandably women cooked.

24:09And you know, I have no judgement on that one way or the other. What's your expectation now, Martin? I think bitches should be in the kitchen. No, I don't. Christina, that was a joke. We all know it's a joke. It's fine. I love Jim Carrey and I love women working. Next. Are you a good cook? I'm not bad. I describe it as I can keep everyone alive. And Rachel, my girlfriend, you know, I think we both like cooking. She's pretty good. I'm quite... Well, she's French. She is French. Is she a cordon bleu? She's not a cordon bleu. She's a massive cheese and wine whore. That's what she would say about herself.

24:45She says that about herself. Let's rephrase that show. But she does say that about herself. I'm a cheese and wine whore. It's not old she is. But no, she loves all that stuff. She loves it, yeah. I know. And we like cooking. And we do, recently we have tried to be mindful of how much processed food. I was a vegetarian. I was a vegetarian. Well, no, it wasn't that. I know you were a vegetarian. I was a veggie from 14 to 2023. I was, no, I was vegetarian for a long time. Then I was pescatarian. Yeah. But basically I hadn't had meat since 1986, right? Hadn't had any meat, chicken, nothing since 1986.

25:23And at the end of 2023, I, you know, things in my life had happened which I won't go into. But you lose enough people in your life and you go, yeah I'm gonna have a little re-evaluation of what I'm doing and what and why I'm doing this is this do I really want to do this or is just habit you know and I thought I love love I really do love vegetarian food what occurred to me was we talk a lot in our life in our culture about balance and about getting back I thought well I can't have had that much balance because I haven't eaten meat or chicken since 1986. Do you know what I mean? There must be something slightly lacking in that.

26:04I don't know. Basically what it was is I like replacement meat, like a Beyond Burger is amazing. Some of that stuff is genuinely lovely. But then when, you know, you read the ingredients and there's 28 ingredients, most of which you can't pronounce. It's very processed. It's very, very processed. It really is. It really is. And even though I, in an ideal world, I wouldn't eat animals, but I've just decided I want to give myself as much potential health as possible. So actually, I started eating meat again as a health thing. Because usually the other way around is, well, you give up meat for health.

26:39And I get that as well, because you shouldn't be eating, you know, 10 meat pies a day. But again, balance, you know, not eating red meat all the time, but having some chicken, just having more protein, basically. So I just need to know, what cheese is always in your fridge? If you're cheese and wine... Well, I'm not. Rachel is... Compte. She loves Compte. My kid now knows to go to the cheese man at the farmer's market. My three-year-old. And he knows... Why does he like it? He loves a Compte. It's smelly. He loves it. So Rachel's always got a Compte. I mean, she's got lots of things that I don't really know about.

27:15You know, like, you know... like I don't know that much about wine other than I know some little things that I like, you know. But I like soft cheeses. Me too, I think. I like a blue cheese. Do you like a smelly cheese? I don't mind it, but I'd rather have a, well, does brie count as smelly cheese? Slightly, if you leave it long enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it sort of goes like it, yeah. Yeah, and it has a little crust on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I do love that. And I like a sort of baked brie. Oh, gorgeous. Or a baked camembert. Oh, lovely. That's what I meant. Yeah, you made... Me and Camembert are kind of cousins, aren't they?

27:49I love a baked Camembert. Yeah. Yeah. And which wine would you have with that? I like Cabernet Sauvignon. I like Cabernet Sauvignon. Oh, I like a Cab Sav. A Cab Sav. A Cab Sav. I do, yeah. Love it. I do too. I went to New Zealand a long time ago to film The Hobbit. Of course. And in New Zealand, people really care about wine, right? Oh, I know. Young people, like normal people, like 25-year-olds are going to tell you about wine. And I got onto Pinot Noir there and I thought, oh yeah, I love Pinot Noir, I love Pinot Noir. and actually after a while I thought I don't know if I'm in love with that It was a bit thin It was a bit at that time though I reckon it was quite trending In 2011 sort of thing Yeah, maybe so Martin, I would like to know if we were coming over for dinner what are you cooking for us?

28:30Oh God And vegetarian meal maybe that's like is that going to be your way too? No, it would be I think I would now cook you meat or chicken I was trying to save you with the vegetarians No, I think I'm already persona non grata with them I don't know I mean, you know, or are we ordering in? No, we're not ordering in. Okay. For a period, we would have been ordering in. That's fine. If there's, if there's, if there's an, over a certain number, Yeah, I think we're ordering in. Uh-huh. Because I have a fantastic Japanese canteen down the road that I just love. I just love it. Can't get enough of that.

29:03You like Japanese food? I do love Japanese food. Also, I don't feel well versed enough to be able to cook a Japanese meal well enough. No. Better than, No, I know. So is it, I almost don't, I almost don't want to learn that well enough. You know what I mean? Like there are some that I believe in specialities and I believe in people's specialisms. Yeah, yes. And I think, well, in the same way that I'm not going to get in your territory and make your album, I'm not going to start trying to do sashimi in the same way. Like that's what that restaurant's for, you know. So do you go out for sushi? We order that one in a lot.

29:37We occasionally go there because it's a very not jujee, very unpretentious canteen. There's a place up the road in Hampstead Village Yeah. called Ine which is posh Japanese. Oh wow. Where you have a a sake sommelier and it's like Wow. Yeah. I mean I'm not I don't work for them. Yeah. I'm not on Insta for them. Okay. Yeah this place Ine I-N-E accent. I think we should go darling. It's really beautiful. I think we met years ago. I know where we met actually. Oh Jessica. Okay let's say it one word at a time. You've never said this. Let's say it one word at a time. Okay. You go first. Harold Pinned Carry on Fill her in The season I was next to That's not one word Okay sorry Okay Daniel Kaluuya Okay We had not Was Joe Dempsey with us too?

30:27I don't know Maybe You and Daniel I know Yes You know Daniel I think Yes I know Daniel a bit And we were talking And then you arrived And we were introduced briefly And then You've got such a good memory because I was not I was going to bring it up because you don't care you don't give a shit I don't give a shit about what? about meeting me what are you fucking talking about? she doesn't care Jessie you've never even mentioned it no exactly oh my god because A she doesn't care B she forgot C because I'm not Joe Dempsey yeah it's like it's just not as important excuse me Martin I was being professional and a bit fucking cool no you weren't Jessie you were about to mention Danny Dyer I'll tell you why because Martin was there because we were seeing a play.

31:12Do you remember? It was a double bill, wasn't it? It was a double bill. It was The Lovers, which I really liked. And it was The Homecoming. Was it The Homecoming? I think it was The Homecoming. Russell Tovey was in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because we went for Hayley. And Souchet. David Souchet. Oh, David Souchet. Yeah, he was in it. Right. But you were, so you were part of the same season. Correct. And we recently had Danny Dyer on. Yeah, he's lovely, isn't he? And were you in the same show as him? Yeah, we did The Dumbwaiter, which is a two-hander, which was... I've seen that one. Yeah, it was very fun.

31:43I really liked Danny. How did it feel being with Pinter's Muse? Well, interestingly enough, when we were both younger actors, I was up for a couple of things that Harold did, and I remember getting a recall and hearing that it was between me and Danny for it. This was like 1998 or 2009, something like that. And he got it, and I remember not minding because I'd actually seen it in that way that when you really like an actor, you go, God go with you, fantastic, good for you. And I'd seen him in a play at the Almeida in early 99 called Certain Young Men by Peter Gill where he was playing a rent boy and he was just, he was fantastic, he had a real charisma, he was natural, it was like he wasn't acting.

32:34So I've always been a big fan of Danny, yeah. What made you get into theatre? Your mum and dad didn't chat It was the tight trousers The tight trousers It was the lederhosen No it was I thought I was going to be a squash player From about the age of nine Can you play squash? Yeah He thought he was going to be a player mum I genuinely was a very good squash player You were very good I was in the Surrey squad I was in the national squad Oh wow My age group And I was a really good squash player Who got you into that? My mum and stepdad Worked at a place In Weybridge in Surrey Yeah They worked at a place called St George's Hill Oh I know that Yeah How do you know Because I used to work in Weybridge Oh right Okay So between At an approved school Did you Okay So between 79 and 83 I lived there Because we lived on site You know we were the help basically My mum ran the kitchen Correct Yeah Tim Jones They all lived there All the greats Dick Emery On this particular Well you're like a ball boy for them Don't do that Oh no Don't say ball boy and do that

33:38don't say were you a ball boy that's just that Jessica it's not that kind of podcast I wasn't a ball boy we lived there, me and my brother Jamie lived there with my mum and stepdad my mum ran the kitchen, my stepdad ran the bar and we lived upstairs, we lived on site and that's where I found out I was good at hand-eye coordination, I was good at tennis so did they have a squash court they did they had like four squash courts and i sort of tentatively went down and played and i and i was i was quite good immediately i was sort of quite good and then i got better and so anyway i i loved it loved it loved it until i did so i'm gonna stop hitting this table i loved it until i slightly fell out of love with it because competition came in and i was going up and down the country for various competitions and you know sometimes when you are when you do something just for pleasure and it's completely untutored it's really good fun and then the deeper you get into it then it becomes a bit of a schlep, a tiny bit of a schlep and then I sort of didn't love it anymore and I just thought I don't really want to do this so then I thought what do I want to do I thought at 14 you should know what you wanted to do with your life because from the age of 9 I thought I'm going to be a squash player and then when I didn't anymore I thought well I better hurry up and find something and I had done a play at school, I'd done a musical at school and I thought I was okay in that.

35:05I certainly enjoyed it and we're from a family of kind of show-offs. You know, there's musicians and there's a performance element in my family without question, you know. So I joined a youth theatre. I joined a youth theatre up the road from Ian Teddington. I find it really interesting. If you had musicians in your family and it seems like you turned your hand to things, anything, You could have been a sports person. Right. And you're one of our greatest actors. Not my words, the words of Jessie Ware. Yeah. But okay, and you have this love for music. I do, yeah. That's the first of everything.

35:45I mean, I love that more than anything. Was that almost too sacred to even touch? Kind of. I think I have too much respect for it in that, like I know I know what it is it's like being a eunuch in a harem I know what it is I just can't do it or I can't do it as well as I would want to do I was in a band with one of my brothers for a while doing backing vocals and percussion and I really enjoyed it and I do definitely have a musical brain or a musical heart or whatever or a musical instinct if she keeps on making that kind of noise I am going to go absolutely apoplectic with rage. What spice do you need, Mum?

36:25I'm joking, Lenny, I'm joking. What spice do you need? Genuinely louder than your gigs. Yeah, no, it's good. It's all good stuff. But no, I think when I sort of learned to play, when I was about 19, I learned to play a bit of guitar. And then I thought, well, I'm not going to be amazing at that. I was like, what's the point of putting more mediocrity out into the world? I was already at youth theatre by that time no I'm going to be an actor that's what I think without sounding 2 % I think that's what I'm supposed to be doing and I think what I'm supposed to be doing with music is loving it and really cherishing it

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39:43So we're going to start eating and this may... By the way, I'm a slow eater. I chew. I just chew. I like chewing. I don't like hoovering anymore. Okay, you like to masticate. Yes, I do like to masticate. Okay, do you want some red wine? I'd love some. Which one did you bring? Did you bring this one? Let's open your one. I did. Let's open your one. Yeah. I think it's quite nice. I think I've had it. what's that? what's that salad-y thing? oh it's a Turkish thing is it? it's courgette and carrot oh lovely and yoghurt and I forgot what else is in it but it looked quite nice but actually I think I should have got it out the fridge earlier because it's a bit cold looks really good and those potatoes look fantastic well they're stuck forever and it was this girl that's staying with me it was actually a two person job was it?

40:27because they didn't stand up the standing up bit is quite impressive Yeah, unless somebody... Oh, yeah. It's kind of like a vertical dauphin wasp. Will you help yourself? Oh, sorry. Mum, it looks delicious. I will help myself. I'm just going to do that. It looks really, really delicious, Mum. It does look good. Thank you very much. So, the fifth step. Yes. Jack Loudon. Lovely Jack Loudon. Have you spent much time with him? I have not. No, I've met him once in the flesh. So, did you have to read opposite each other? No, that's not what happened. It was a play he had done last year at the Edinburgh Festival.

41:00and so he's already done it once I think it's great and it was sent to me just before Christmas and then I read it and immediately thought oh this is dangerous because I want to do it so it's all very well reading a play that you think I like it, it's really good, I like everything involved but I can pass on it because it's too long or whatever but it was too good to not do and I didn't know Jack but I do like Jack's work I think what he does is very good and thank you do you like slow horses? I do like slow horses but also he's done various things over the years I just thank you I think sometimes you can tell well I hope you can tell I think I'm right you can tell what someone is going to be like as a human I think you can tell a lot by the way they by the way they are you know and who they marry because you know Searsha Ronan's a catch yes and a very good actress she's been on this eh yeah She was amazing Now she was good Now she really was good Now she was amazing You know he just He seems Like The way I hoped he would be which is a very normal Unshow busy Unpretentious person So tell the people that are listening It's at the Soho Place Which is a new theatre It is a new theatre Yeah, it's right next to Tottenham Court Road Tube in London.

42:29And it's an exciting new venue for the young people of today. And is it just you two? It's just us two. It's no interval. Straight through. Thank you. Love a straight through. Me too. So do I. So do I. As a doer and as a viewer, I love a straight through. It's not because I'm lazy. Well, maybe I am. I love theatre. I absolutely love theatre. But I do appreciate it. Do you need it to last five hours? I don't. Apart from the Layman trilogy, I didn't mind that lasting for a very long time. Oi, look at that. Bloody hell. Jeez Louise. Fantastic. Oh, that wine's delish. I'm really going to take my time with this, don't you?

43:07I hope that's okay. Okay, you're absolutely fine, darling. But it will be very appreciated, I know that. I hope it's nice. Thank you, darling. So the premise of the play... The premise of the play is Jack and I meet at Alcoholics Anonymous. Right. I end up being his sponsor. I'm a generation above him I've known the game a little bit more we talk, get to know each other and we kind of run the gamut of Do you like each other? We do I think my character Help yourself to watch Thank you. What unfolds is that there's a slight between human beings I guess there's a slight status thing going on whether you're a sponsor or a mentor or whatever i think it's i've always been interested in that thing of you know if you you know there's a young singer who you see and you really want to help her you really want because she's amazing and you love her you love you want to help you help her until she's more successful than you you know and then it's like oh christ i didn't make no this you were meant to be my padawan you know whatever you know um so i think there's a little bit of that in it I see a younger man who needs help I want to give him help but then I also probably want to control him a little bit as well the fifth step the fifth step yeah and of the twelve steps in AA what is the fifth?

44:37the fifth step no the fourth step is when you have to write out every bad thing that you've done everything you feel bad for what they call resentments and fears and harms done to others everything that you're and then you have to give it to your let's say your sponsor and you have to just lay it out there like a confession on steroids sort of thing people have described it to me and I guess how it's been described to me by a friend of mine if you wanted to do it properly you don't need anything out so that to me is pretty terrifying the idea of everything that has made you feel when you know you've done something wrong in your life and God knows if you live long enough in your life then you would have done a few things that you think that wasn't great, that wasn't great and telling someone who is not your mum I don't know, maybe it's easier I don't know Do you need salt and pepper anymore?

45:40I don't, no I think it's delicious. Thank you. Like how... I love that salad. I know, it's good, isn't it? No, that's a really good salad. No, it's Turkish. Yeah. It's in a cookbook that I thought, oh, great. It's a vegetarian Turkish cookbook. La-di-da. And a born-again vegetarian, really. Very good. Delicious. The jus on that is like unreal. I can't taste oregano in that. It's delicious, though. I'm really enjoying this mum me too it's really lovely thank you good darling okay last supper starter main pud drink of choice he doesn't eat puds Jo I do what is this? Lent I give it up for Lent oh you're going to really regret it tonight oh don't say that you are so you do Lent every year I do it's like the last vestige of my stomach we just thought you were a diva up.

46:39Or like you were trying to get naked in the show. Yeah, the Maui bod. No. Like, oh wow, he's in competition with Jack Loudon, so oh god, he needs to get a bit naked on stage. No, it's just I always give, there's a set load of things that I always say I'm not him. No. But wine is fine. Yeah mum, because I haven't said I'm giving it up. So wine is fine but chocolate, sweet stuff. Crisps, biscuits, chocolate, cake, pudding, dessert, sweets. It's quite specific. Mum, we can't fuck with that. So, yeah, fair enough. But we will have it. Of course. I'm just going to tell you what it is. But what have you made?

47:16Yeah, please do. So it's a Spanish lemon and almond cake. Fuck off. Yeah. With a mascarpone, honey. Oh, man. Can you not just, because you're with Jews tonight. Yeah. It's a different thing. It's Passover tonight. God will let you. I know. God will give you a bit of a pass. Jessica. It's a dry house. Okay. This is very nice Primitivo, darling. I love Primitivo. I think it's one of the best. You know what? I've forgotten to drink wine. Yeah, wine's hot, mate. God almighty. Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. It's delicious. Are you having me? Yes, it's delicious. It's really good. So, okay, so last supper.

47:58Oh, my God. Your starter, what are we starting with? Okay, my starter is tuna tartar. Oh, I love that. because it's light yeah tasty yeah it does what it's supposed to do and wake your mouth up yeah and tantalises you but it's not too filling it's still light where have you had your best tuna tart mmm I the Walsley does a good one oh yeah the Walsley does do a very good one yeah do you like the Walsley I do I love it yeah it's not snobby do you have a cocktail with your tuna tart Negroni mum mmm I just love a Negroni yeah I love a Negroni. It's like pudding at first. So a Negroni with a tuna tartare.

48:45Nice. Main.

48:50I really love fish and chips. I love a posh fish and chips. Where do you get yours? Anywhere. I don't care. Big batter. Do you like the batter? Don't talk to me like that. Do you take the batter off? Of course not. What? Some people do. Why would you get fish and chips then? Because they pretend that they can't eat the batter. No, I know. I have seen people do it. This conspiracy theory is you're starting. I have seen people do it. I've seen people. Jessie, they take the batter out. Why would they order fish and chips? Because they try and be part of the gang and then don't eat the batter. What gang?

49:25The fucking heart disease gang. And then Seashell's good. Do you live? Yeah, Lyssen Grove. Lyssen Grove, yeah. very nice we've got a good one in Dulwich opposite Brockville Park I usually finish my kids fish and chips because I don't think I could do a whole fish and chips I know what you mean especially when it comes out like that and that is not me judging you because I can eat but I don't know if I'd be able to do it no I am what is known in my family as a fat pig and I love eating do you? yeah mum I love eating Friday night though must have been fish and chips night when you were little yeah mum yeah don't eat fish Okay, so fish and chips.

50:06Any sides and condiments? I know, I want to know which fish it is. Oh, sorry. Haddock, cod. Cod, cod. I do like haddock. Yeah. I also like place. Me too. But there's nothing like cod, really. Cod is great. Yeah. Vinegar? Vinegar? If you ever interrupt me again. Sorry. This is terrible. Take over from Alice. I'm going to go fucking mad. Yeah, I know. I didn't realise I'm storing up a lot of anger. I know. Oh, gosh. And it seems to be really projected over here. I'm fine, darling. just keep don't wake the beast vinegar salt and vinegar of course love it plenty of salt and vinegar if you fucking have to ketchup yeah I do do the ketchup and mayonnaise and mix out you're the only person that is silence well I mean she's not she's not silence but she's definitely quieter yeah I'm quieter mushy peas no you're not having it yeah mushy peas yeah really no I don't like it You said you're doing that like you've never heard of this.

51:04I have. I'm from Manchester. We have curry sauce on here. I've never seen you have. I love clums. That's the gang you try and be in. I've never seen you with a curry sauce chip. Because we're not in Manchester, darling. They don't sell it here. They do. Where? Does Listen Grove Seashell sell curry sauce? That I don't know. No, definitely not. Did you film the first responder in Liverpool? Yeah, both of them, yeah. So did you get curry sauce all the time? Yeah, you see. Yeah, I love curry sauce. I love that. But it's down here. It might not be as good as the Northwest. It's not everywhere. But do I want to choose that?

51:43Or do I want to just choose a massive platter of beautiful Japanese food? I think, you know, maybe that. I don't know. Speaking to Mark Gatiss about this, and he said, and I kind of agree, is there really, really anything just nicer than beans on toast? Maybe not. Maybe not. immediately satisfying with butter do you like cheese on top? she's scared to ask a question I was actually terrified babe I was acting he was acting he's back in the room I would ever do that with someone I felt comfortable with and Martin, I don't care she's going to keep on trying, don't worry you won't keep me down she doesn't care, she doesn't remember me it's so hard being me Harold fucking Pinter, Martin Daniel fucking Kaluuya fucking hell okay so we've got tuna to tart we Japanese omakasi and fish and chips and fish and chips and beans on toast yeah oh my god no it's great the reason this is the last supper is because it will kill me yeah and then are we going to have a little are you going to have any wines in the main I mean well yeah I'd have a Cabernet Sauvignon yeah this is this is giving me a lot though this is really good I don't know where you got this from but I like it It's organic, Jessie.

53:01There you go. You can rub your rose quartz on. Shut up. Can't say that anymore. So pudding, it's obviously, have you got a sweet tooth? I do, I love sweet tooth. And that's why you've given it up for Lent? Yeah, I try and give things up that I actually will find slightly difficult. So what is, is it still the lemon meringue pie? I do love lemon meringue pie, but because it's you, I'm going to choose something else. Okay. I love, I like a really thick chocolate cake. I just do with cream I just love it mum but like are we why are you disagreeing no I'm just wondering I just need to know whether like it's a is it a sandwiched one like what kind of conditory they were they're very nice actually what would be a nostalgic taste or scent that could transport you back somewhere happy or sad taste or scent I don't know the answer to this but something is drawing me to Christmas oh there is some I do feel the smell of a Christmas tree genuinely puts me back to, I had a specific Christmas when I was nine, 1980 Christmas.

54:10John Lennon had just been killed. Crikey. Not that that was all of it, but there was a lot, at the time we didn't have a telly, so radio was on all the time. So John Lennon was on all the time, Beale was on all the time. Were you a big Beatles fan at that point, as much as you are now? I really like them, almost like you like cartoon characters. I love the Beatles just because they were so appealing to a nine-year-old as well as to everyone else. And that is like my benchmark Christmas for me, 1980, for some reason. What present did you get? Can you remember? Well, one present I got was a pocket fruit machine.

54:48So you press a little button. The pinky thing. Oh, yeah, that sounds great. Yeah, I bought one on eBay the other day. just to kind of I think you get to a certain age you might not have got there yet but you get to a certain age and you think you really crave stuff from being a kid it's just weird it's not frankly it's not very interesting but like in the last few years I started rebuying all the old football magazines that I used to buy Who do you support? I used to be a Man U fanatic Me too Oh you're not supporting Man U anymore? Not anymore No I just like watching football now I'm an England fan and that's painful Yeah I know My son is a Spurs nut.

55:24So is her husband. Yeah. And he's made all her children dress. They had fun last night, though. Okay. But he's made all your children dress. My fun, yeah. And I don't need to get my weekends ruined anymore by that, you know. I like watching, you know, I support England. That's enough of a pain. Will you go to the LA? I feel like that could be quite, maybe try and get like a, you know. Maybe. Well, I've been to, I've taken my, I took Grace to the Euros last year. Amazing. The final. Okay. Wow, amazing. I took Joe to the Euros in 2021, as was at Wembley. Very exciting. I like the fact that we're a decent team.

55:57So what is, if we were being invited round to your house. I mean, that won't happen. It genuinely won't happen. I was hoping for Jonathan Ross's Halloween party. I think we've got more chance of that than going to his house for dinner. Yeah. Yeah, you have. To be fair, yeah. But could you get us into your play? Because it's sold out. I know it's not fucking sold out. Is it not? No. That's why he's fucking doing this. Oh, okay. Do you think I'd be schlepping around here? Christ. Fucking hell. Oh, the day that we wanted to do. No, to be honest, I actually genuinely don't know how to do it. There are very few tickets I can tell you.

56:31I think it's doing okay. Okay. I would love to see my play and, you know, come backstage and I will definitely say hello. Not for long. Not for long. Especially if it's a two-show day. I'm not going to fucking hell. I've done enough of that shit. When it's two shows, do you have a little schloff in the middle? Yeah, you try. Do you feel like cabin crew? Well, you feel cabin fever-ish. Again, this is not meant to be a humble bragging anyway, but because I have people who come and see me, and they don't necessarily all leave between matinee... When you say people that come and see you, fans. As in fans, you know, fans.

57:11Are these Sherlock fans, or are these Lord of... Because you've been in such kind of everything. Yeah, no, I think Sherlock is definitely, you know... see it's weird because I haven't done a play for six years so it's genuinely interesting for me to see the people who were coming to see me multiple times they might be doing something else now genuinely I have no idea who there might be Love Actually there might be American tourists who are a Love Actually fan but they don't leave so you can kind of feel like I want to go out and fucking have a walk around but then you can't you can't always do that on Soho Theatre where is it?

57:49No it's not Soho Theatre but that's on Soho Place correct yeah Soho Place it's actually you know what I found out the other night it's called At Soho Place that's the name of it I want to thank you By the way you can have dessert No it's fine Why? We felt it was disrespectful No honest to God of course not No we're not going to like throw a fucking delicious cake in your face I don't want God striking us all with lightning coming through the ceiling I mean he's already got your fucking number I know he's got my number already This is lovely I love this Do you love it, darling? Thank you so much.

58:18Such a pleasure. Would you classify that nearly as a crisp? Don't do that. Don't do that. Do you know, this year, this year is the first year I never break Lent. Seriously. You look scared. And I'm not a very religious person, but as soon as I go, oh, it's for Lent, I just don't break it. This year, I have, a couple of times. And it's never happened before. So you could have my pudding. I know, but I've done it already. I've done it already. Do you think three strikes and you're out? Yeah, I think so. And on that note, Martin Freeman, you... Yes. Martin Freeman, you... Yes. You're rude. I am. You're funny.

58:58And I do fucking remember you. That's my best review ever. And you're a delight. God bless you. Thanks so much. It's been such a pleasure to get to know you. Thank you. And to chat with you. And good luck with the play. Thank you very much. At... At Soho Place. At Soho Place. The Fifth Step. Yes. Jack Loudon. It's going to be amazing. By David Ireland. We haven't even mentioned David. He's an amazing writer. It's going to be, you know, Finn Denhertog is our director and David Ireland, I think, is one of the best writers around now. I cannot wait. Me and Jack are occasionally texting each other going, it's going to be so exciting.

59:33I can't wait to see you on stage together. You're not getting in, but... No, but I mean, I'll tell you about it. Yeah, no, cool, yeah. No, thank you very much. It's been really lovely to meet you both properly. have some lovely food. This is really good. Thanks for coming. Thank you. You're very welcome. Maybe you can. I don't know that I could get it to stand up for that long. Oh, you can't say that anymore.

1:00:06I mean, apart from the fact that Martin Freeman just told me that this just completely annihilated my outfit. What's he say? He said, Jesse, next time, please, can you just wear a slightly bigger white shirt that looks slightly more like a Victorian's sleeping gown? I went, He's so funny. I loved him. He's great. He silenced you. He silenced me, but he was teasing. He only silenced me for a second, darling. I loved him. I loved him too. Just gorgeous. He was fun, he was flirty and all the things you want in a man. And he loved your food. Yeah. Ate a few helpings. He did, we loved that. He potentially is up there in top three, slowest eaters.

1:00:54But he did acknowledge that. So I have respect for him. Yeah, I do. And since he hadn't eaten meat for about 30 years, I think he did well. Yeah. It was a real pleasure to have him on and chat to him. Just like a really funny, nice guy. Can't wait to see The Fifth Step. Absolutely. The Fifth Step, playing at Soho Place Theatre. Previews the 10th of May. Go and get tickets. He didn't have pudding because he's doing Lent. Yeah. So more for us, darling. OK, make me a slice. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next week.

1:01:57We'll see you next time.

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