Ralph Fiennes

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0:39Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I have a bit of a lisp because I've just been to the dentist. So enjoy that. Oh dear. How are you, mum? Not well. The hip's not good. Oh, mum. Yeah. Are you going to be Bionic Woman by next season? Possibly before then. Are you going to go off at security? to? I don't know, darling, but there's something not right. And he said, I've got to try and walk with crutches. 74, I'm not going to manage crutches, am I? Anyway, Sarah's bringing them over tomorrow. You do look fabulous with walking stuff. Do I? Do I? I don't know. I look really hobbly and old woman-y.

1:13I'm sorry. Good week this week for you, darling. Why, what happened to me this week? Well, I heard you sing again.

1:18Lennie Ware: Oh, that's very sweet of you. Yeah. Yeah, I sung in Kingston. It was so nice. I did an acoustic show, which is the last one that I'm going to do before I go and do the big arena show. Do you think you'd do any acoustics on your arena shows? I don't know, maybe. Yeah, I think you should. It's nice. Yeah. I also want to do a big, big show. Yeah, we'll give you everything. Darling, I was thinking champagne kisses come down in a champagne glass. Who's the person? Dita Von Tees. That's it. Yeah, no, I can see myself exactly like Dita Von Tees. Yeah, I can see you in a champagne glass. Okay, we'll see what we can do with the old bougie.

1:52Lennie Ware: Okay. I'll hold the string. not with your shaky hip thanks no um thank you though for you came on and and people loved it did they yeah they love you you're an icon am i now um we have ray fines on today you went to see the play this week grace pervades grace pervades um it's at the i thought it was going to be a person called grace pervades but it's not it's grace pervading the stage it's a new David Hare play. Yeah. I feel like Ray Fiennes has lots of connections with David Hare. He's done other stuff with David Hare. I don't know. Anyway, Ray Fiennes, everyone knows him. He's kind of, when I was collecting the chicken yesterday from Ginger Pig, everyone said, who's on tomorrow then, Len?

2:39And I said, oh, Ray Fiennes. They said, the best of the British actors ever, ever, ever. And people regard him so highly because he's done, He's so loved because of all the things he's done. From English patient to...

2:57Lennie Ware: Menu. Oh, the menu. I love that. Conclave. Could he not have been the best ever in that? He was Heathcliff. See, I can't say Heathcliff. Now who is? Juliette Binoche, I think it was. Oh, my word. Yeah, on telly. I never thought... I wonder if he's seen Jacob, what he thought of Jacob's performance. So she was... We had a French Cathy. I think so. Cathy. Cathy, come on. We're very excited to have him today. This is a big deal. He's, you know, got a show tonight. I know. So we must feed him well. I wonder if he wants a little glass of wine to keep him going. He does like a drink. Okay, so I've got cold white and I've got cold...

3:31Well, I don't know yet. I don't know him yet. I haven't met him. I haven't put champagne in. Maybe it's not good for the vocal cords. I don't know. We'll find out. And what have you cooked? Well, it's kind of a... It kind of was a spring day when I decided to do it. And I'm going to Greece this week. so I decided to do Greek chicken with lemon potatoes.

3:53Lennie Ware: I was listening to his episode with Ruthie Rogers and he does love to cook. Oh, does he? He's got a place in Italy. Oh, and I've done Greek. That's okay. If I'd known that before. I'm not giving that safer. Okay, safer. And then what have you done for food? I've made a panna cotta with sour cherries on the top. Oh, my God. Or he can have, I've left them in the bowl rather than blobbing them out. He can have passion fruit on the top depending how passionate it is for you to do. I really love it when you do the sour cherries. When was the last time you did that? It was so good. Yeah, it was a while ago.

4:25Lennie Ware: Ray Fiennes coming up on Table Mamas. Can't wait.

4:35Lennie Ware: Ray Fiennes, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. And making such an effort. You look so dashing. Do I? Yeah. You came in with a really fab hat as well that's not here now, but thank you. I took it off. How are you? I'm good. I'm just starting this run of Grace Pervades, this new play by David Hare, which we transferred from Theatre Royal Bath, which is a season I helped to create last year. And it's exciting to have a new play in the West End. Yeah. How was the show last night? It was good. I mean, I think my own compass on how the show's going is very subjective, so you don't really know.

5:12You have a sense of it, but often your sense of how a show goes is not accurate. I don't know how to market it. You have a vibe about how to market it. Everyone was on their feet when I was there.

5:23Lennie Ware: Mum went to see it. I'm really annoyed that I couldn't make the same night. You'll have to go. Mum loved it. I loved it. It's an interesting story. Yeah, well, for people that haven't heard about the play, can you just explain what it's about? Yes. Well, the title Grace Pervades is actually taken from a description of Ellen Terry. Whether in movement or repose, grace pervades the hussy, which was what a theatre writer called Charles Reed wrote about Ellen Terry, a great Victorian actress. And I read a wonderful book by a man called Michael Holroyd, a great biographer, Michael Holroyd, wrote a book called A Strange Eventful History, which is the story of Ellen Terry and her acting partner Henry or Sir Henry Irving.

6:15Who you play. Who I play. And the story of their partnership as two actors in the late 19th century in London is extraordinary. Henry Irving created a very particular kind of theatre. At that time mostly audiences went to see in the dramatic theatre great actors do their stuff but there was the idea of a director's theatre didn't really exist. So Henry Irving was a driven man, driven to be a better actor, became well known, was given the run of the Lyceum Theatre which is where now the Lion King plays and he created using extraordinary stage effects, lighting effects, the best painters of the day to paint the scenery, design the scenery and he was becoming a great and recognised actor and he invited the young Ellen Terry, who had come from a family of actors, to be his leading lady.

7:12And they shone together. The English theatre had never seen anything quite like the sort of detailed magnificence of his productions. Something extraordinary. Audiences came in their thousands and hundreds to see what he was doing. But expensive productions. Expensive. Very, very expensive productions. But initially, the attendance was so great that he was in profit. and it was a big, big thing. And then fashions changed, and then his theatre became outmoded, and in the end the play reflects how in the end he got into trouble, had to sell the theatre. But I think the play celebrates their relationship, which we think was at one point romantic, and also the play examines her two illegitimate children.

7:59So another interesting thing is that she had conceived two children out of wedlock with a well-known architect called William Godwin, with whom she was very in love. Before that, she had a disastrous marriage to a famous painter called G.F. Watts, who was about 40 and she was about 18. That didn't work. So she had had quite a dramatic love life. And she was an extraordinary woman. And she got married to an actor. Victorian society is really interesting because people were doing their thing under the radar. but you couldn't do it on the surface. I mean, you could not have, obviously, love opening it.

8:38You couldn't live with someone and be unmarried in Victorian times. It would be scandalous. So she was out in the wilderness for a bit when she'd conceived two children, was living with William Godwin. That's background to the play. The point of the play is about theatre and the people who make theatre and the relationships behind the work that they're doing. so the central theme of the piece is Ellen and Henry and the theatre that he is making and her relationship. Running parallel to that is the story of her two children which is very, very, very interesting because her son, Edward Gordon Craig, their illegitimate son, became one of the most important ideas people in the theatre, an iconoclastic, opinionated, brilliant artist, difficult to work with, by his ideas, his revolutionary ideas.

9:32I mean, provocative ones. Get rid of actors. Let's just have puppets. But basically, he was trying to upend the sort of theatre Henry Irving was creating. And he didn't do a lot. He did do a famous production of Hamlet in Moscow with the great Russian actor, director Stanislavski. The designs are incredible. You can see the designs. They are stunning. He was a great artist. I think he was not a great director. but he became very very famous because his ideas were sort of exciting his sister edie edith also directed plays mostly with a feminist or political slant out of a barn in kent and she produced a lot of plays living with her girlfriends she was certainly lesbian and they lived together in a sort of small woman's community and that's in the play you see an insight into the way David Hare has imagined that but she was an activist and the irony is she's not that well known but she probably produced loads of plays and her brother was very famous and did very little and David Hare has fun with that though that in the play you said

10:40Lennie Ware: that you read a book about this yeah and then did you approach David Hare to write this play I pitched it as an idea I mean he may well have said doesn't interest doesn't interest me Rafe but I had a feeling, I know David and admire him hugely and I know his passion for what the theatre can do and that's been his life, writing for the theatre and what the provocation a play can create and how it can move and excite people's souls, I think, as well as their minds. Anyway, I've worked with him and I've just had a hunch that the theme of the theatre and how the theatre has changed in this country, I think I thought it would appeal.

11:23And he went away and read the book and then read, and there's a massive amount of material on Irving and Ellen. I mean, there's lots you can read. And he researched and researched and came up with this, I believe, wonderful play.

11:36Lennie Ware: So how long has it been in the making for? Well, I must have thrown the idea at him about three years ago now. And then he went away and read it and read the stuff, read the book. and then I was invited to run a season at Theatre Royal Bath by Danny Moore, the artistic director of Bath. And I said yes, and I wanted two new plays and David had written it in time for us to do this season of plays that started a year ago. So a year ago we were in rehearsals for Grace Pervage the first time round. How do you wind down after a show? Is there any food that you eat particularly or you need a drink? or a drink is always a good thing a drink oh yeah yeah what are you having yeah uh well i will try and offer a glass of champagne to guests in the dressing room um otherwise i i love a martini how do you take your martini very dry ideally i don't do that i haven't got to this stage yet in the dressing room but if but a dressing room post-show blah blah aside you should chill the glass freeze the glass so it's cold yeah and the vodka or gin i prefer gin i think you should keep the gin in the freezer what sort of gin tanqueray tan i like tanqueray and i think you rinse the glass the frozen glass with a little bit of dry vermouth right just rinse it yeah and chuck it so it's just coated get it out of there yeah yeah then pour in you shouldn't need to shake and all that stuff because you your gin is already frozen okay so that was all silly with bond the shake and not stirred thing yeah i mean i think what happens is you tend to get a lot of the ice starts to melt in the shaking you get a bit exactly so pouring your tanquerade hand into the rinse the glass has been rinsed with the dry vermouth and a little sliver of lemon see i like mine wet and filthy rave unfortunately so we wouldn't be sharing i would like i would like to try a wet and filthy martini it's i just i like it with i i more is more for me so i want like the blue I mean so what do you tell me how you I like a vodka one and I like lots of vermouth lots of vermouth oh no yeah I know but I do think it sounds more chic doing a rinse I like and then you check it out I like it it's dramatic and I like it and I like a blue cheese olive and lots of brine a blue cheese olive yeah have you never had a dirty martini with a blue cheese olive is it olive with blue cheese in it yes no no this is blasphemy heresy but it must all leak how to make it Yes, delicious.

14:15Lennie Ware: But it makes it look delicious. Cheese in a martini. I think you should not knock it until you've tried it. Let's start from kind of the beginning. Can you paint a picture of who was around the dinner table and what was a very memorable dish from your childhood? Well, a lot of people around the dinner table. Yeah, well, I'm the eldest of six. Wow. So there was mostly eight around the table. And meals were, I mean, we didn't eat fancy food. I mean, my parents were often up against it financially, so there were regular trips to the cash and carry to get supermarket food. Your dad was a farmer? He started off farming, and then he became a photographer.

14:56But a Sunday lunch would be roast chicken and potatoes and vegetables and things like that. And I do remember occasionally my parents making spaghetti bolognese. And I said, well, food was, it was get the food in the mouths of the children. you know get your carbs in the kids mouths and my mother my mother made wonderful soups they but they were very good cooks but often i just have a my childhood memory is you know often it's a bought pie or something from a supermarket just eat for ease but macaroni cheese or fish pie or shepherd's pie or those sort of stalwart dishes that just give energy and feed people and you were the eldest and how many brothers how many sisters uh there's four boys and two girls and did you live on a farm initially yeah but then me the i was my father was a tenant farmer in suffolk farming what it was crops and he did have some sheep but i think it was peas and barley wheat did you have to help i was no i was a child i mean i was six years old But didn't they have the children helping, like collecting eggs?

16:05Probably less help. You have to remember that I was six years old when we left.

16:10Lennie Ware: Oh, fine. And where did you move? We moved into North Dorset and then my father became a photographer. So memories of the mealtimes were kind of home-cooked food. Sometimes, I'm afraid, sort of bought supermarket food for ease. But then I think as we got older and that sort of pressure to get the food, I mean, there was a time when we'd moved to Ireland, and my parents were very... We had a romantic move to the coast of West Cork and built a house. But there was this difficult financial time. So we'd sold the house in Dorset and built this house. My father built a house in a fantastic site on Dunmanus Bay, but there was no income.

16:53He didn't really have a... I think he thought he would buy... There were lots of wonderful sites there. with planning permission that you could buy an island i think he thought he would develop properties but it wasn't his thing he wasn't i mean he was he's brilliant with his hands and he could build and make a house but he wasn't that wasn't his business so we were sort of stuck out there what age was that i was 10 stuck out there with this wonderful house and this amazing ocean and mountains behind and a lake behind us and and um my mother going what what the deep deep are we going to eat and how did we get by and we were there were weeks how we existed our lunch time we might have had a piece of chicken or a pie but as lunch was nor packet soup with mashed potato oh that's what it was did you like it we were hungry kids so we just it was fine it was food i was just telling jesse that my friend had some italian friends staying over and they stayed in the ellen hotel in kensington which was her house oh really yes so there's a hotel called the ellen hotel and that's her house you'll have to go there the place that people if they're interested at all in is ellen terry story was to visit small hives in kent which is the home which is featured in the play yes she bought what she bought an edie her daughter lived there then it's now a National Trust property.

18:20It's a wonderful museum with artefacts from her working life and artefacts from Henry Irving's working life and the famous Lady Macbeth dress she wore with the green beetle wings stitched into it. That's there. It's really worth the trip. But she was very avant-garde, so she accepted her daughter was a lesbian and lesbian friends and she liked being with them. Yes. And her son, she promoted him as much as she could. Yes, that's right. Exactly right. And they're all very... I think she's very open. That's what I liked about the play, because it was about emancipation as well. It is. It's about emancipation.

18:58Yeah, and I thought that was very interesting. Yeah, that's a big thing. Do you eat before... Is this going to be your last meal before you go on stage tonight? No, I'll probably have something a bit later on, around about five.

19:09Lennie Ware: What will you have at about five? Does it change? Or are you kind of stick her for... Well, I was very lucky that last weekend I had some friends over. I didn't cook myself because I get up late from here into this place I have in Suffolk. But I had asked someone I know to make a wonderful fish stew. And I've still got... A little bit over. Yeah, so I'm finishing it off. Oh, I hope you've had it in the freezer. Oh, yeah, I've had it in the freezer. Good, otherwise you'll have a bad... No, it's... You're quite... When I listened to your Ruthie Rogers episode, you're really good friends. We've had Ruthie on the podcast too.

19:45Lennie Ware: Love her. She talks about how you'd call her up from the market in Italy and tell her what you were thinking of making or what you've just eaten. So are you quite a foodie? I am a foodie, yes. I love food. And, of course, Ruthie's River Cafe is great. but um yes i have i have asked her advice and um probably annoyingly i'm often referring to one of the river cafe cookbooks and we'll ring her up must be very irritating what this recipe ruthie what do you think should i add more of this it says this i'm not sure about this um but i love yeah i um i love to cook but i cook simple food i think i like hang on you did talk about having otolenghi and liking liking a lot of cooking of otolenghi which is not simple no that's not simple when we had lockdown and i um i was experimenting i was in suffolk but in a little cottage and i did experiment with otolenghi but i had the time to excuse me come go with my to the supermarket and get all the things you need all those um exotic are you Good.

21:00I haven't eaten yet today.

21:02Lennie Ware: Oh, okay. Well, mum's made something delicious. It smells great. So if we were coming around to your house and you were cooking for us and you had the time, what do you think that you would be serving? What's your go-to dish that you know is a bit of a showstopper? I would try to... I've loved cooking the Ottolenghi slow-cooked lamb, which you have to marinate if you can for a day or two before and you cook it for four or five hours. And then it's quite easy because you just bung it in and then you don't have to think about it. Yeah, but it's also, it soaks in all these spices and juices. What are you serving it with?

21:43Probably with some simple green vegetable, like some spinach or something. It's a meal in itself.

21:49Lennie Ware: Oh, has it got potatoes and stuff like that? No, it's got carrots. I think it's got celeriac and garlic and, yeah, it's a lot of stuff with it. So I would then serve something light and green. Right, OK. And I would probably most likely. I'm big into steaming. Steaming. Yeah. Is that a new thing or you've always been big into steaming? Relatively new for me, the steaming. That looks amazing. It's a Greek chicken, really, with lemony potatoes, very lemony potatoes, I hope. They're my favourite. but help yourself to whichever bit you want. See, that's it. Something green. Yeah. Exactly. That would be my green salad.

22:30Spinach salad, is it? Spinach with sugar snap peas and some asparagus and pumpkin seeds.

22:38Lennie Ware: That's a bit of you, right? This is exactly my perfect meal. Oh, you're good. Yeah, I bet you say that to all the girls. So, have you got a sweet tooth? Yeah, I don't eat puddings a lot, but I do have a sweet tooth. Take the potatoes. They should be really lemony and nice, I hope. Thank you. This juice looks great. Does it? Yeah. I hope so. Did you get enough asparagus? Because there's loads at the bottom here. The chicken is perfect. Can I just say the chicken is perfect? Okay, good. It's lovely. It's light, Mum. It's perfect. But he's got to go on stage. He doesn't want to go to sleep, does he?

23:19Lennie Ware: No. I love a sugar snack. I do too. So the acting, when did the... Because from what I gather from your siblings, you're all quite artistic. And they will do very different things. Isn't there an archaeologist with one of you? Mick, who was adopted by my parents, who became an archaeologist, yes, he made some fantastic discoveries up in Cheshire a few years ago. And I have two sisters who are filmmakers. So where did that all come from? Your dad was a photographer, your mum, did she work? My mum was a writer. She, well, most of the time she was bringing up her children. She had six children, as I said.

24:06She'd published two novels before she met my father. Wow. And had good response as of being an interesting young voice. And then she met my father and they started to have children in rapid succession. And then we all grew up with my mother voicing increasingly her frustration that she couldn't find time to write, which she did, but it was always a struggle for her to sort of leave the children to go and write, but she did. And my father lent into the photography, which for many years was a struggle. But we went to Ireland, came back to England. Was she completely mad about him? Yes. And so wherever he went, she was prepared to follow.

24:50Well, I think she led some of the... She was very much a motivator for the move to Ireland, being Catholic and loving literature, and they went on a photographic job to Ireland, and my parents together fell in love with it, my mother particularly, because at the time having six children in England was quite a big thing. In Ireland, it was nothing. There were families with 8, 9, 10, 11 children. So you were completely accepted. Are you Catholic? I was Catholic, yeah. I'm brought up Catholic. So Conclave, that was amazing. Was it filmed in Rome? Not in the Vatican, but it was filmed in Rome, in Cinecita, the Rome studio.

25:40My Catholic upbringing was useful. I mean, I've always had an interest in faith and belief, and I think that's the sort of legacy of my upbringing. On my mother's side, my mother's brothers were priests and or theologians, and her uncles were priests and or theologians. Benedictine monk, my great uncle, Sebastian Moore, who's quite well known. So I've had sort of God discussions around the table often with my mother, leading the charge on discussions about God. So she was a believer throughout her life? Yes, she was. I think she started to be more questioning about the way that any religion can be dogmatic.

26:26Yeah. And to some people that dogmatism is appealing and other people, they butt against it when the rules of religion sort of start to sort of go against what you're living through when they become pedantic. And I think everyone wrestles with the rules different religions want to impose. But I think Conclave was interesting about whether you could move forward as a religion and have someone as your Pope who was completely different, who had a different kind of following, really, and a different mission. But I think the Catholic Church has changed massively anyway. Do you think it has? I wondered about them.

27:10Yeah, conversations I had with priests as part of my research, I get the sense of, you know, the Catholic Church has been challenged by lots of issues. There are priests in the Catholic Church who recognise the challenges that the modern world presents the Church.

27:26Lennie Ware: I mean, you've played so many different roles, but which one do you feel didn't leave you, which was the hardest to leave you after immersing yourself in it? I think the three films that I've been lucky enough to direct and play in, those were the hardest because the combination of playing a role and directing, so that you're also going on to edit and confront the part you've shot. And for some reason, you're left still having to look at your film and you in it. And that's hard to leave because you're confronted with having to edit. yourself as well as other people and so by necessity you can't let go it's quite a funny place to put your head because usually it's actually a relief you've played the part you've done the research whatever you've been in it you've tried to immerse yourself in the path every shooting day then they come the last day of filming let it go it's done you know i can um i mean there are parts i've loved you like some more i would yeah please which bit and i would And if you get the potatoes from the edge, I think...

28:34Lennie Ware: That's got the most chicken on it. That's a piece of breast there. That's a bit of breast. Have you ever had someone here, you opened a bottle of wine? Yeah. With other guests? Yeah, we've got very drunk. And they sit and they don't have to go off to do a play. Stanley Cucci was so drunk with Stanley Cucci. And you could unravel here with... Are you wishing you didn't have to go and do the play tonight? I can imagine another version of this where we opened a really good bottle of wine. and we relax. Mum prefers it. I much prefer it. Yeah, I would, if I didn't have this. She had to kick Ed Miliband out.

29:10Lennie Ware: Yes. Stanley Tucci had, do you want some juice on it? Thank you. Stanley Tucci, we had two bottles of wine. Yeah, okay. We were drunk. He did bring wine with him and he's a very good man. He is. He's good fun. I bet you ate well with him. We did, we did, yeah. He's great fun. Speaking of Stanley Tucci, has he ever cooked for you? He's always at that kitchen doing a demo for us all. We all want to be invited over to that gorgeous... Stanley, you haven't actually cooked for me. You took me out for lovely meals in Rome. And I have a memory of us talking about you cooking for me. But I can't remember that you've honoured that suggestion.

29:50Lennie Ware: You know what? I'm going to look at the camera too and say, Stanley, I think it's time for you to invite us over. And he says that no one invites him over. Well, I don't see the invite here. Stanley so Ray, Lenny and Jessie will come over for dinner and I'll bring a six pack of wine what? a six pack of wine like we're going to a house party six bottles so you love breakfast don't you? me too but you haven't had breakfast today is this something that you don't do when you're on stage? well I thought I knew I was going to have a substantial lunch why deny yourself a little boiled egg? I did have a boiled egg oh well you did eat them you're a liar yeah I do not have the breakfast.

30:31It's not a full English, darling. I must have a boiled egg just to have something to keep me...

30:35Lennie Ware: Just to line the stomach. Do you like it hard-boiled or soft? I like it hard-boiled, yeah. I will eat a soft-boiled egg, but I will. Maybe just a slightly, slightly soft yolk, but not... Did you have bread with it? No. Just the egg? Salt and pepper? I just had egg and I had a bit of cucumber, a bit of cheese. You had a breakfast. I hate to break it to your own that's a breakfast you did eat before you came that's not what he feels that's a snack smoked salmon scrambled eggs oh delicious smoked salmon can go very wrong I feel no it can't you have to be in control of the right smoked salmon otherwise I feel like if it's too thickly cut it makes me feel gross yeah it can be slightly too fishy yeah like it has to be from the right spot so what do you like I always buy it and then I forget about it and then it goes off in my fridge and then nobody else eats it in my house.

31:30Lennie Ware: So, I, yeah. There are, don't ask me to name the brand, but there are brands of smoked salmon which are very good, I think. Yeah, Goldman's and Panzers. Panzers is good. Yeah, Panzers is the best. If you live in St. John's Wood, you're blessed. Yeah. Panzers? Yeah. Okay. It's a wonderful deli that just is so delicious. All the food is great there. Okay, I'm going to remember that. Do you, do you, so you usually, Do you live in London? Yeah. OK, fine. But you've got Suffolk as well. I've got a little place I can run away to, a field I can go and hide in. And then Italy. Do you go to Italy still?

32:11Lennie Ware: I do, yeah. What brought you there? A friend of mine was renting a house, an American friend, and said to me and my then partner, please use it. and we went there and loved it. And then when this friend gave up the rental of that house, I took it on and had kept it. So I rent it all year round. Is it near a big town? It's about 45 minutes north of Perugia. Oh, lovely. And have you got a local restaurant? Yeah. And what would be your favourite dish there? Chickpea soup. Oh, wow. Zupa di ceci. Zupa di ceci. I've never heard that. Nonna Gelsa. What's that mean? I think it means Granny Gelsa. Okay, I thought it was without angels.

33:00Oh, Nonna, Nonna Gelsa. Nonna Gelsa. And then after? They do this wonderful lamb chops, Agnello Scotta Dito. Oh, I love lamb chops. You love lamb. I do too.

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34:03I've made panna cotta. And you can either have a topping of cherries or passion fruit. They're sour cherries, though. Well, they're not very sour because I made them. Or passion fruit. What do you recommend by hand? Well, I don't know whether you've got a very sweet tooth because it's quite sweet. and I quite like the cherries but I think passion fruit might make it a bit crunchier and sourer. Why don't you have a bit of both? Because it won't work, darling. What do you want, Ralph? This is how it works. This is us on best behaviour. This is us not shouting at each other. I like to try the passion fruit.

34:41Lennie Ware: OK. So, last supper, starter. What are we having, Ralph? This is going to sound so boring because if it's my last supper, I want to eat things that are fresh and pure. And so I would just have a selection of raw vegetables. OK, let's not say you're not dying. You're going to a desert island instead. Would that change it from raw vegetables or would it still be? Well, look, I like very simple things. So if I had like some asparagus just grilled with, and I like maybe some hummus with some chopped fennel or a carrot. A fruit detail, you like it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I swear, Chris, like, I swear this is very similar.

35:31I don't want anything really rich. I like stuff that's just genuinely fresh. It's got to be fresh. It's got to be pulled from the ground just before, or if it's cooked very gently, but really, really fresh. So if it's my last supper, I want to taste the fruits of the earth from the purest form. I mean, I don't know, something that's come from someone's garden or my own garden that is just... And then I think I'm not a vegetarian, so I would love, I suppose, a really good steak.

36:07Lennie Ware: How are you having it cooked and what are the condiments? No, we're just, it'd have to be really one of those steaks that's hung for dry aged 40 whatever days, hung really, really tender beef, grass fed. Chips or mash? Yes, some really good chips. Okay. Yeah. Bernays? No. No. Just make sure the steak is salted to the right degree. Yeah. Are you good at making steak? Mm-hmm. I'm not. Can't do it. Always cock it up. Yeah, I mean, or as a, it would be a fish alternative, like a healthily sourced, well-sourced fish. Which one? Lion caught, I guess, a sea bass. No, it's not my favourite. Sorry, I know it's your last episode.

36:50Lennie Ware: I like turbot. It's not doing it for me, Ray. Do you like turbot? Yeah, I do, I do. I like halibut. Sea bass hills. Do you ever go to Jay Sheiky after? Mm-hmm. Yeah, everyone goes to Jay Sheiky. You've never been, have you? No, I know, but they invited me to be an ambassador. You should be. And I was like, I've never bloody been. like how can I be an ambassador if I've ever been the thing is the last supper is a hard one isn't it because you might think it's got to be the most extraordinary voluptuous meal if it is the last supper if you know it's your last supper like you know you're being let out to die oh damn they're not doing that then I don't I want to have something that's really simple that's my instinct speaking not some not indulgent no No.

37:35Lennie Ware: Pud? No. Nice cheese. Okay, what's on the cheese board? I don't know. I mean, any, any, I'm a selection. You love cheese. What did you have with your breakfast this morning? It's a piece of manchego. Oh. That's unusual for breakfast, because it's quite hard. It's my snack. I keep on saying it wasn't my breakfast. It was my snack. Sorry, yeah. Did you have membrio with it? No. Oh, membrio is good. I've had that. You love membrio. Manchego, membrio. Oh, delicious. I love a sweet condiment I don't like thick, gooey over sweet pods, this is fantastic Do you like it? This is great mum These are the tiniest cherries I've ever seen in my life Oh, they're frozen cherries darling This is really, really, really good Maybe I'd have this Do you like the passion fruit?

38:20Would you cook my last supper? I will do darling, of course As long as I can see you every day I might have to come again actually because I enjoyed it so much Will you come again? Yeah, I think I would actually. You come together?

38:34Lennie Ware: I'll bring the blue cheese olives and we'll have a drink together. We'll have a martini. No. Okay. I'm not invited again. Michael McIntyre was sitting behind me in the theatre. Did he come back and say hello? He did, he did. Good. Do you find it a bit annoying when people come back and say hi? Are you a bit like, oh God, I can't be arsed tonight. It's a funny one, because of course you're really happy people have come to see the show. and I love it but often after every night people are coming you do suddenly find yourself say is there a night when no one's in so I can just go out with my mates yeah oh yeah of course but it's like you have to entertain yeah yeah but I mean you want people to of course in the end you're very happy people to come it's all who's in the mix you know I mean also and what the part you've played this I've played some parts say Macbeth for instance where you're completely wrecked afterwards and it's hard because of what you've gone through on stage and what you've tried to reenact on stage it's all you're wrung out so your social skills are kind of very diluted playing henry irving in this play isn't so bad i mean i love the pop and and also on top of all that you come off stage with a sort of energy and adrenaline you're adrenalized so you're so with this i feel i come off stage it's it's a there's a there's a sort of lovely bittersweet ending to the play it's not is not a horrendous cut your wrists tragedy.

40:02And so I think, you know, and also you're often happy to see people who've come. Yes. And so you're ready for a bit of a drink and a chat. Yeah, yeah.

40:13Lennie Ware: Before we let you go, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere?

40:22I used to work with a dear friend of my father's who was a farmer. I worked on his farm and he used to cook saffron sausages in saffron. Oh, wow. And if ever I have sausages in saffron, which I sometimes make for myself, I'm transported back to working on a farm in summer. That's a lovely, lovely memory. How do you put the saffron? Just put it in the frying pan? Yes, yeah, yeah. Wow, because it's quite a strong taste. Yeah, it doesn't put too much. Do you like music when you're eating? Or do you like to read or sit in silence? Different moods on different days. I think sometimes you're ready to have some background music.

41:06Who would you choose for your soundtrack? I love solo vocalist singers. So it can be anyone from Nina Simone to Johnny Cash to Bob Dylan to famous opera singers like Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau. I mean, I love the human voice singing. I think it's the most wonderful thing to hear a great vocalist sing. and so I would put on Edith Piaf or Billie Holiday. And I like PJ Harvey. I like, is it Rosalia?

41:38Lennie Ware: Oh my God, I'm so angry that I missed that performance. It looked incredible. I mean, I like, you know, singers. I come across new singers. I love that. Did you get pulled into Rosalia when the kind of more classical reference stuff or were you a bit of a Motta, what's it, a Motta Mami? No, what's the recent album? Yeah, it's quite... Sophia went this week, that's why she's got the merch on. Is it white, is it quite religious? Well, she's playing... It's religious notes, isn't it? I mean, she sings in about nine different languages. She's very beautiful as well. She's incredible. What do you like to listen to?

42:15Lennie Ware: Oh, my God. No. Can you sing for us now? No. Can you act for me now? Yeah, probably can. You can, yeah. he's just turned it off no you can come to a show of mine Jessie's performing at the O2 so you'll have to come and see her in November if you're here yeah you should come okay I'm going to come it's fun anyway Ray Fiennes break a leg tonight thank you so much for coming over and being such a wonderful guest thank you for having me for such fantastic food wonderful chicken I've loved talking to you both and how long is Grace Pervades on the floor Grace Pervais is at the Theatre Royal Haymarket until July the 11th Thursday and Saturday matinees I'll sign my programme

43:15Lennie Ware: Ray Fiennes wants to come again and have a boozy dinner with us I think he was a bit jealous of Stanley's lunch. Yeah. Two bottles of wine and he didn't drink at all. Poor Rafe has to go to the West End now to do a very good performance. I know. Thank you to Rafe Fiennes for coming on the podcast. You were brilliant, intense. Yeah. Thoughtful. I love the way he talked about the play because he's so passionate. And passionate about it. And it really is a tribute to great Victorian actors. I'm very excited to see it. and it's like a packed house. You were there and it was absolutely packed. Everyone stood up at the east.

43:54Lennie Ware: I mean, he's one of the greats. He is. The food was delicious. Thank you. He had seconds. Bit hard potatoes, but then they softened. They were nice potatoes, though. Yeah. They weren't undercooked. They just weren't like... But then maybe it's better than them falling apart. They're not exactly as I'd take... They're not a Greek potato. No. Why is that? Because you didn't use Greek potatoes, Mum. Do you think that's the reason? Yeah, that'll do it. It was still really nice. Good. Your panna cotta, very delicious. Good. Thank you so much, Mum. And all done on a bad hip. All done with me. It's on me next time.

44:23Poorly hip, yeah.

44:24Lennie Ware: Rafe Fiennes is in Grace Pervades until mid-July, so go and check it out. He signed it. Did he leave his telephone number? No. He said, please give Jessica... No, he didn't. We'll see you next week for more Table Manners.

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