Raven Smith

0:03Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware. I'm drinking a glass of wine because I'm Feeling stressed, Mum. We lost all the bloody microphones. They are somewhere in London. Potentially somewhere in my house. Potentially. But thank God for music producers that live nearby. Thank God. And we do have three microphones, but you'd think after five years we'd have a professional set-up. How is everyone? How are you, Mum? I'm OK. You're quite rested. Because I haven't had to do the cooking. You know what? Although I was almost at your house when I was told to go back home to look for microphones.

0:41Do you think the Buddha's got them in the... The Buddha. The Buddha might have taken them. Well, yes, I am on meal duty. Yeah. Now we've got quite a foodie coming over. Have we? Is he a foodie and a whiny? A whiny? Not a whiny. I hope he doesn't whine. Well, he likes wine. He's had wine named after him. Has he? Yes, and I've drunk it before. I wonder if he's going to bring a bottle. Of his wine? Maybe. He's also had pickles. I don't really understand the pickles thing. Oh, I do because he had a big pickle in the first book that he did. He got in a pickle. Or he likes pickles. Yeah. I've seen a picture of him eating a cucumber or a pickle.

1:21A pickle. Anyway, we've got Raven Smith coming on, who is somebody that I've known for over 15 years. How? We used to see each other at raves. he used to wear a jaunty hat and we were at raves in east london and he was always with the cool girls he was quite cool too and we couldn't forget him as well because i didn't know many ravens you know it's great name great name and he has become one of the most popular voices on instagram he is a writer a journalist he is very funny and he is coming over to talk about his new book oh wow he's had two books he's had raven smith's trivial pursuits which was a sunday times best seller and he's had raven smith's men which is out in paperback in july um so we're going to talk about that but he's a married man he's a married man very handsome husband um so i've got a very lovely thing happening at seven o 'clock in about 20 minutes mum what we've got people that listened to the john batiste episode firstly everyone was so enthusiastic about that episode it was because he was a joy to meet him right a huge talent and we were talking about pizza and him and john was saying how he loves a little bit of honey on his pizza and i talked about dinner for 100 my favorite local spot up the hill yeah i bought the children pizza they were thrilled so thrilled in fact they decided to dedicate a pizza for the next two weeks to me now when you're listening to this it'll be one weekend and it will already already be a bestseller no doubt i said sure of course but it has to be called the hot jesse so it's called the hot jesse because it's in do you it's honey um whipped feta or goat's cheese i'm not sure which one and we've put a bit of rocket on there and pine nuts.

3:18You are making such a face, mum. I can't imagine, honey. Well, you're about to have it in 20 minutes. And I don't like Nduja. I'll squidge the Nduja off. You're going to eat the whole bloody thing. Me and your daughter like pepperoni. Well, Nduja's like that. No, it's not. It's hotter. Is it Nduja or Nduja? Is that like me going, Gia Bada? Yeah, it is. I would say Nduja. Okay, anyway, you're lucky enough that we're getting that. Where does Nduja come from? Spain? Yeah, I think. You squeeze it out like toothpaste. Stop. It's supposed to be a sausage, but you squeeze it. Yeah, delicious. Fab. Don't like squeezing my sausages.

3:56Oh, my God, Mum. Anyway, we've got that. So the boys are bringing it over. You can meet Jacob. Everyone, I'm sure, is... Oh, Daniel's son. Our osteopath son, yes. It's a family affair on the hill. Now, I've been given the task of the meal. Yeah. I've gone for a summery evening meal. I've got two pink sea breens that I got from Sopers in Nunhead. Great, great fishmonger. And I said, why are we getting the pink ones? He said, they're only in season for 10 weeks of the year. Little pink sea breens. Sweet little pink sea breen. I'm going to eat you up tonight. Now, there's a guy that I follow on Instagram because that's where I always get my meals now.

4:36He's called Laurent de Garnier. And he did something whilst in Greece, which just looked fantastic his fish was very big and he did a fennel and citrus salad so I'm doing sea bream on the barbecue it's a gas barbecue because I don't have time to deal with coal it's got thyme and rosemary in it red onion salt and olive oil and we're going to put that on the barbie and then I've done a salad which has fennel red onion green beans very thinly sliced all within these size orange segments with the juice um the little persian cucumbers or lebanese cucumbers the beautiful sweet ones um some basil i don't have white balsamic vinegar so i'm going to use rice wine vinegar instead and then i've got some roast new potatoes in the oven because fabulous and so it's very simple now we're very excited on the hill that there's a new pub um and by the way i'm not getting paid for any of these sponsored these are not sponsored posts this is just pure enthusiasm for your community for my community which i love there's a new pub called earl of derby we've all thought it was going to get changed into flats it's been made into a pub it's really lovely fabulous restaurant well there's these guys called larry and george they used to cook they sound like gilbert and george yeah larry and george they are called Gengeli Gengeli it's their surnames put together okay they used to cook at Good as Gold which is a really good coffee spot in Broccoli they have taken over the kitchen in the Earl of Derby and what's it like?

6:10it was so delicious I went there twice because I was so enthusiastic about it last week went there what was the most like? they're not doing roast yet but they did a brilliant chicken ham hot pie fantastic however the puddings were so sensational that I, because you know I don't do puddings very well. Everyone that listens to this knows I can't be arsed. I like to apply the Nora Ephron method to hosting. Now, what did Rita Wilson say when she was on? She said, Nora Ephron would always recommend that you get something from the store. So I've got the puddings that I adored, that I ate at the weekend for pudding.

6:45And you're all going to thank me. Good. So simple, simple's on the dinner front. Gorgeous pudding. Sadly, must be starving. Raven Smith coming up on table menu.

7:05Raven Smith has come over for dinner. And we're going to... I feel like you and Lenny are about to hit it off. I hope so. I'm ravenous. I bought some wine. Oh, please tell me you bought the right... I bought my own wine. So exciting. I love... Thank you. You know what? I was going to try and bring... What's it called? Summer? Summer wine. Oh, that's nice. Strawberries, cherries and an angel's kiss in spring. Summer wine. How the hell does Raven Smith get a wine? And us table manners people who've been talking about food and wine for five years. How do you get a rosé with top cuvee? I can't remember.

7:38We just talked about it. Do you have to be an alcoholic? You have to enjoy wine a lot. I've got a house near where they harvest the grapes. Darling. Job done. So you were picking the grapes, yeah? I was out picking the grapes on summer and I thought... Yeah. Oh yeah, they're not... I mean, they're miles away. but they do same day delivery so I'd love this well listen we may as well open it that's correct how sick of your rose are you um I've had a lot of it okay should you save it you should save it yeah okay something really special it's just you in my speedos drinking my summer wine is that what you wear the illustrator had really didn't enjoy the rounds of notes he was like enough I was like three stripes on the speedos please oh yeah deal that's incoming yeah sure yeah I think that's love a wine merch moment so I have a white wine do you want a white wine?

8:32lovely very nice thank you Raven I know that you're a pescatarian I am I have to celebrate the moment I've got a pizza special called the hot Jesse coming because you have your wine I have my Indugia pizza so sweet jacob have you ever tried dinner for 100 at the top no it's the pizza it's amazing we love it it's the wrong way for me i'm too far into camberwell you are far deep into camberwell and you have great food places there oh yeah the best but you used to come here when you had sweet hayley here and you used to kind of do birthday parties here we used to sit in the park a lot during covid covid god yeah terrible not a great time not a great time but anyway so sweet Jacob is coming.

9:17Did he start the pizza place during Covid? He did. Yeah, they started it later. And tell Raven White's call. Cheers. Thank you for being here. Tell him why it's called Dinner for 100. Sounds charitable. It is. Social enterprising. I can hear that in the name. He wanted to kind of have intergenerational pizza. I think. Anyway, they're lovely. They're bringing a hot Jesse. Great. Are you the only person that they've named a pizza after? I feel like it's better than the Larry David sandwich. Okay. Because Larry didn't like his sandwich. I love my pizza. I don't think I'm the first. Okay. I think I'm the first pop star they've had.

9:53Okay, that's cool. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually pretty legit. Let's talk about Raven Smith. Raven Smith is incredible. But has the greatest shirts. Always. Always. Yeah, I love a nice shirt. I love it. I love something that feels like no one else has it. And I feel like this, whoever else bought the tablecloth, I think only one shirt was made from it. so it feels like its own thing so where did you buy that? there's a company called Bodhi and they do a lot of they do a lot of like they buy a lot of stock of stuff and make lots of shirts and then they have a few like that is gorgeous Harry Styles wears Bodhi a lot doesn't he?

10:28yeah he is Raven and Harry good friend of mine has a just my old mucker has it's a great brand is he your friend? no no I feel like his energy is very strong would you like to oh my goodness this is a pizza this is a pizza But I am feeding you. Would you like to be his friend, do you think? He seems like the kind of person... I've heard he's got that energy that's, like, magnetic in a room. I heard Bill Clinton has the same thing, but it's, like, pure charisma. That's how he does it then. And everyone in the room is like, oh. Everyone, this is Jacob. Hi. Oh, hi, Jacob. Come and sit. OK. So I'm sharing, but sweet Jacob, who's supplied pizzas to us for...

11:05And I know your dad. ...over two years. Mum knows your dad, cos he's everyone's favourite osteopath. and Jacob kindly after hearing our episode with John Batiste decided to approach me about maybe having a special yes exactly that's why we have the hot Jessie right here because what's hotter than Jessie thank you very much Jacob so how are we doing it's the first hour of sales has anyone bought a hot Jessie yeah sales are flying records are broken oh my god like it's becoming a permanent menu item 100 % That's all she wants. That's all I care about. I always need to win, Jacob. She's told all the parents in the school to buy it, so you keep it on the menu.

11:49OK, OK, OK. You're all going to hold me to that. I know you will. But no, it's going to change the game. Tell everybody who has heard me talking about your pizzas for many years what Dinner for 100 stands for and what you're about. Oh, OK. Well, thanks for having me. I'll keep it really brief. But basically, Dinner for 100 was all about bringing people together around the table and we used to mix young and old people together this was before covid and then obviously covid happened and myself and my partner jake we were passionate about bringing people together we still wanted to find ways of doing it and obviously we couldn't do the events and then we struck gold we started selling pizzas in my mum's front garden just the one street parallel from here yeah jake's an amazing pizza chef he's been in the pizza game for like 10 years he's about five so he's old he started young he started young it's the dinner 400 philosophy mum's garden style pizza we got a pop up at the top of Telegraph Hill it turned into a permanent site we turned an abandoned substation into a kitchen and now we've got a thriving pizzeria in the hills and we're opening a bar in Nunhead you kidding wow a bar in Nunhead hammer station mum now you definitely don't eat sausage even when it's a hot Jesse even on a hot Jesse My mum tastes that.

13:05Mum was not excited about this. I'm not excited about the endearth squeezy sausage. Interesting, interesting. What do you think? It smells delicious. Actually, it was really good. Is it hot honey? This actually isn't hot honey. The other pizza that Jesse, that inspired this on the Baptiste episode, was the MacGyver pizza. That's hot honey. That's whipped feta. So that's sort of where this came from. But instead of whipped feta, it's whipped goat's cheese. And instead of hot honey, it's normal honey. Yum. I'm glad you like it. You guys are smoking hot. Thank you. I'm hot now. I really want my own pizza.

13:40So, Mum, you were unsure, however. Unsure, I love it. Absolutely love it. There you go. Wow, I mean, I'm burning up over here. So am I. Have you got fire extinguishers in the building?

13:56Thank you, Jacob. Guys, thanks. This is amazing. Heroic. Well, you're amazing. Thanks for having me. Great to meet you guys. Thank you. Enjoy the pizza. When does the bar open? We're opening first week of August at the soft launch. Second week of August, we're going. So you can come get our pizzas. We're going to be trying a few other bits of foods, cocktails. What's it called? It's going to be called Bar D4100. Okay. Okay. You can remember that. Yeah. And you're all invited, so. Brilliant. It could also, I'm just thinking, now that it doesn't have the dinner, it could be like Dick 4100 as well.

14:29Has that ever been thought about? Many things have been thought about. we welcome the contributions so keep them coming nice to meet you guys bye darling thanks thanks cheers okay bye Jacob thank you darling thank you what a charming young man I can't wait to get a pizza named after myself

14:51so what's your your little drink a little slifter of an evening I like a Campari spritz I find Aperol just too sweet. You know, there's that bit in Sex and the City when she drinks a Cosmopolitan and she's like why did we stop drinking these? And Samantha says because everyone else started. Well, I've never stopped drinking Cosmos. No, but I mean I love a Cosmo. There's no other cocktail that's as good as a Cosmo. In my honest opinion. And it's a silly colour and it feels fun. It's pink, it's wonderful and you feel luxurious. Yeah, I had a campaign for about three years trying to bring them back and I was like ordering rounds of them and it never no one really tipped into them i've even got them going in greece where they don't even have cranberries so i don't know what the bloody hell they put in there i went to some something in um i went to like a beach club in crete and i was getting them ordered under the parasol i mean a cosmo under the by the sea under a parasol it's perfect so i like i do love a cosmo and i like a campari spritz anything red really i like do you know montenegro yeah that as a spritz is a great one.

15:58Yeah. No, I know the place. Oh, right. It's like a, it's an Amaro, but it's like 20 different flavours. with fresh orange juice. Yeah, that's nice. Has that got a name? Is that like Campari Sunrise? I don't know. I mean, that's what I would call it. That would be a good name. Do you, when do you have that? If I'm away and I fancy a Campari, I really like the orange juice. If I'm not having vodka before my Cosme. Just mix it in one. I just love Cosmos the best Cosmo is the Carlisle Hotel in New York I'm actually having a dinner there next week oh my god it's my favourite favourite snacks are off the wall you do pay about£300 for the Cosmo but you get great snacks they're putting us up we're not staying there but they're putting on a dinner for me for the book launching in America so we've got like 20 people coming it's the most beautiful place on earth have you been before?

16:55We went once and I think we sat at the bar for ages and I fell completely in love with the idea of sitting at a bar. The black and white floor. Beautiful. And then you see elderly people who live in the Carlisle. Yeah, that's the coolest thing about hotels in New York. I mean, Stritch used to come down. Yeah. And I remember we were there and there was this elderly couple and he said, I'll have the same as I had yesterday. Great. He could barely walk, but he could drink a cocktail. I love that people live in hotels in New York. and it's kind of the jazz is playing, Woody Allen plays. Yeah, the walls are amazing, that amazing sort of like illustrated silk.

17:31It's the one. It's just beautiful. So we're doing a dinner there next week. You're so lucky. I know. Jesse the Carlisle for dinner. Oh, it's a big deal. I didn't realise you were such a big deal, Ty. So I'm launching my book in the States and that is like the kind of, it's like 10 days before it launches. Is this the men book? Men is out in this, American men, but not what it's called, but men in America in two weeks. And the paperback's coming out. The paperback came out in the UK, so the American launch is 18th. So are you trying to break America, Ravensmith? I mean, I guess. I have no profile there, but the Carlisle said yes.

18:03So that is the first step. That is fabulous. I would invite Carrie Bradshaw. Yeah. Oh, I mean, imagine. Can you imagine? Don't have her number. You know who I feel like you should invite? Who? Who is kind of a similar voice to you online. He doesn't want a similar person. No, the New York Evan Roskatz. Oh yeah, that's actually a really good shout. You should, because he's wonderful. He, much like you, kind of pop culture, fashion. A lot of TV stuff. TV, he does. Making his own memes. Yeah, he's kind of... He's great. You should invite him. If you want me to connect you, let me know. So exactly what do you do besides writing books?

18:42No, good question. And get wine and like, you know. Good question. You have your own wine, you write books. The wine is so silly. The wine is amazing and I don't know whether... I'm a bit jealous. such a silly wine it's so silly to have a wine they were like do you want to do wine i was like 100 yeah i'd love to do it's just it was like in kind of covid times so i hadn't been out i hadn't been drinking and i went to see them we had like six glasses of wine and i just rolled home and then went next day went on two hour walk but top cuvee really fun they're the best it was a great day they are really the best and they are fast their ideas are really good their marketing's great like they're always doing stuff that's really fun they do that easter egg easter wine hunt at Easter no brainer so tell mum what you do well I do what do I do I would say I'm a writer I mean it took me a long time to say that but I guess you don't feel it was a bestseller I'm a best-selling author I think I can I have to say right I have to say you're not an imposter no well I mean but yes and no do you have imposter syndrome no I the thing is I always just find I always know i'm wherever i go i'm gonna get on with people that is my skill you are you're lovely thank you yeah you are very warm and lovely and i feel i've known you forever good thanks and i feel we could chat forever about everything we're not getting anywhere tell me where did you grow up so i grew up in brighton and then i came here for university so but my dad lived here so i was up here every weekend when i was going up where did you go to university at london college of printing it was at the time oh down at elephant yeah when it was when printing was still a medium to be played with now it's like art school wasn't it yeah it was definitely art school it was like so i did a photography degree yeah yeah so i did like fine art photography and you know talked about the importance of depth of field so did was your being the meaning of an image a lot of that did your mum cook at home my mum i love my mum and she's going to listen to this she's not a chef chef what does that mean i think she's really confident cooking for kids so she's really good at like jacket potato and beans and lasagna like she makes a few core things really really well she does an amazing blueberry cheesecake and she does an amazing trifle at christmas so she has like her things she can do stable what's her trifle at christmas like what's my husband does not believe it's christmas until he's had it he's and so even in covid we got Is she a jelly in her trifle or not?

21:13Yeah, it's jelly at the bottom. Oh, you see, not us. Oh, she's, and no, hundreds and thousands, I don't think. I think, I know. Almonds? Almonds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we have, like, the flavour in the bottom. I actually don't know how she makes it. Is the custard hard or is it thick? Thick. Oh, it's quite hard. And I was like, how do you make it thick? And she's like, I do the thick way. And that is all I know of it. You just put extra. You put less milk, extra powder. Same thing. So not that fancy, like. No, it's not. It's not fancy. It's like birds. You also love trifle. That's what we love.

21:40And it's not in a glass thing. So you just only see the custard at the top. It's like in a bowl from my gran, RIP. And then mandarin oranges. We get those on the top. It's really quite 70s. So what is the fruit in your trifle? At the bottom, it's like red jelly. Oh, okay. And some jam with the fingers. Then it's the layer of whatever. Custard. Custard. And then we have. Then the cream. And then we have. And the mandarin oranges on the top. With hundreds and thousands. No hundreds and thousands. No hundreds and thousands. Just the mandarin. I'm quite pure. Oh, wow. It's sort of... No hundreds and thousands, Jess.

22:14Just the mandarin oranges. Can I just apologise? Because my fish basket was supposed to arrive. What's happened? A fish basket. A fish basket is so that you can turn your fish without messing up the skin. The fish basket did not arrive. Therefore... I said put it in tinfoil, darling. Okay, and I didn't. It could possibly be too late for that. What did you do? It's too late. Is the fish on the coals? The fish is not on the coals. Exactly. The fish is still there, but the skin is on the coals. Is gone. Yeah, yeah, it's dancing around the skin. I'm sorry, and the presentation is not great, and I'm angry and I'm blaming Amazon for not sending my fish basket quick enough.

22:52Okay. It's going to ding-dong in a fucking minute, isn't it? It turns out to shove his fish basket where the... I'm really gutted, because I was really excited about using that bit of equipment on the barbecue. Yeah, it sounds... I thought you were going to use your thingy there. My thingy? You said one of the tops of the grills. Yeah, and then I forgot, didn't I? So let's not talk about that. It's still going to taste like fish, isn't it? It doesn't matter. It smells really good. It could be the pizza. And do you know what it is? It's pink. What fish? Sea breeze. You can't see it's pink anymore because all the skin's gone.

23:21Only the skin was pink. Yeah, so they are only in season for 10 weeks. Very chic. Very chic. I knew you would like that. Yeah, I love this. It's been lovely to have seen it. I love this. It's like the blossoms in Japan. Did you picture it? did you take a picture before you took you put it on sadly not we can google it yeah we'll google it we can google it but anyway it's a secret anyway my mum's cooking she gets nervous trying to cook new stuff but i worked as a kp and i was a chef kitchen porter right when i was 14 15 oh no wait when can you legally work 16 a place called the dorset which is a fish restaurant in brighton yeah it's really famous yeah yeah yeah so i worked there cooking and i was on one day i noticed that no one had cooked any new baguettes for the baguettes and I said to the chef shall I put some more baguettes on and I was marked myself out as like a I don't know an upstart yes uh so I became a chef almost immediately the same week and I did puddings salads and like sandwiches so I did like BLTs all days on Saturday so I was just cooking cooking cooking so I'm really confident with like salads sandwiches and puddings like I'm just like just chuck I don't need a recipe I don't need to think I'm just like I will just go with my guts and things work out really well so you know how to cook yeah I do and I really like follow I do like recipes and I really like to bake as well darling I'm calculating all the things you've done you're not still 21 I've been you're at least 25 I've been 32 like I said in my book I've been 32 a couple of times couple of times yeah give or take did you have a big 30th no I actually don't like my birthday really do you know what I love everyone else's really Other people's birthdays are their best.

25:02They're like the best one ever. Actually, you know what? I have been at a birthday party with you. It's just, I love other people's birthdays. And you and Dickie, you don't stop dancing. No, no, no. Who's Dickie? Oh, my husband. But my party trick is stamina. That is what I do. Darling, I think that fish might be done. I just never stop. Like, I will be the last one on the dance floor at any party. I love a wedding. So, before it's a party, do you go into training? uh no my training is just hydrating hydration that is what you need to go into and come out of a party fairly unscathed but i when you were young did you have parties that involved dancing yeah i always love other people's parties and i always feel like want i want the energy to be like let's all get on the table rather than i'm on the table doing a performance i'm funny about parties i'm very sociable yeah but i like parties where i know people rather than parties where I don't know people.

25:59Oh, I love not knowing anyone. Oh, shit. Oh, wow. Okay. Do you see what I mean? Okay. Do you see what I mean? So what's the first question you, to meet people when you're at a party? Oh, well, what's a good way to break the ice? Yes. They say the thing you should say is, how do you know so-and-so, the person who's giving the party? Yeah. That's supposed to be the first thing you ask. I don't really know. You just dance. Well, I just feel like, like I really like going to weddings. I don't care if I hardly know anyone. I will be on the dance floor. I'll be chatting to everyone. It's going to be a good night.

26:33Yeah, because especially once you're married, other people's weddings are like, you're so full of joy because you know how they feel getting married. Everyone in the room is happy for you. It's like the best feeling ever. Where was your wedding? Rich and I got married at the end of our road at Camberwell Registry Office with our mums as our witnesses to just the four of us. and then we took lunch at Rochelle Canteen. Oh, nice. That was a bit of a schlep. It was a schlep. It's worth it. It was. We'd only just recently moved south. So most of our friends were east. We got a cab. My parents and my in-laws got lost in their cab and they'd never met before and I think they had, I don't know if they had the best fun.

27:15They were all just very stressed, thought they were missing the wedding. Okay. I didn't tell Rochelle it was a wedding. I just said, oh, can I book for lunch on a Wednesday? 40 people. And they were like, Well, that's capacity. And they were like, yeah, come on a Wednesday. And then showed up with a cake. And did you choose the menu beforehand? Yeah, it was like fish or chicken, I think. That was it. It was really good. Like, we really underplanned our wedding. It was cheap as chips, really. And all the things that could have gone wrong didn't. It was fine. And that is fluke. What did you wear?

27:43I wore a black suit that I bought, like, the year before. And my husband already had the same suit in navy. So we wore matching suits. Please help yourself. Okay. but I'm good luck it looks amazing well I don't it doesn't look amazing Raven let's be honest what's in the salad the salad is fennel love fennel orange segments Lebanese cucumbers onion basil olive oil salt do you want me to try and help you with the fish or can you do it yourself go on you do the fish you know why it's quite a light supper yeah why because we've got the greatest pudding oh okay no spoilers or you're going to tell me?

28:24I don't know. This is exactly how I'm answered. I'm like, toy with me. Okay, I'll toy with you. You just have it later. Fine. Thank you. It looks great. Oh, good. A bit more, darling. Yes, I will. Yes, thank you. And these are potatoes that I was going to do a potato salad and then I roasted them and I put a bit of muscatel sherry vinegar on them. So a bit like salt and vinegar crisps. Oh, that is ideal. Yeah, and you know where the idea of that from? Nigella? Well, yes, Nigella does do it. But also Jolene does it. You know Nigella always replies to people's tweets and I wrote one. She's the sweet we had on the podcast.

28:58I did salt and vinegar potatoes and tweeted and she didn't reply. I know. Someone told me the key is to make up a problem with the meal. She's so... It doesn't taste quite salty enough. What should I do? And then she replies. They were like, give her a problem to solve. She's so sweet though. She's a really lovely person. They're great to salt and vinegar potatoes. Yeah, if you need a little bit extra. Thank you. You just let me know. Yeah, this is a light supper.

29:32And let's talk about Camberwell. Yeah. Can I have a bit more please, Mum? Darling, help yourself here. Camberwell's got such good food spots. Yeah, the best. Can I have my fourth back, darling? Have you been to Toad Bakery? Yeah. Richard will march me down there. It's like not that near us when we all marched to Toad. And what's your order at Toad Bakery? Oh, I like the sandwiches, but I'm a real... I really love nipping out for a sandwich. So the sandwiches at Grove Lane Deli. At where? Grove Lane Deli, so at the bottom of Grove Lane, right next to Theo's. That nice deli, yeah. The sandwiches at Italo are just delicious.

30:09Where's that? What is it called? Italo. Italo, where is it? Italo. Where is it? It's Jackson's dad's place. Oh, right, in Bonnington Square. Italo. Italo. Italo. I'm not sure. Very good sandwiches there. Jackson Boxer. 40 Maltby Street. So I will do the 40 minute walk there and back for a sandwich at 40 Maltby Street. Because it's delicious. It's always the best sandwich you've ever had. I love that. Have you had a Dusty Knuckle sandwich? No, because every time I try to go there, they're like, we are closing in one minute. Please don't come. Like, it's so, it's like the one, right? It's amazing.

30:42Have you tried a Mondo sandwich? No. Which one's Mondo? That's incredible, babe. Where is Mondo? I found them on Instagram. Okay. hey we're in a pub and then they did deliveries oh yes i know a hefty sandwich okay that's next on my list but i will i will travel far for a jesse this is delicious well apart from it it was supposed to be really crispy and when i have my fish basket it'll be i'll fucking change the game fresh easy really good boom i wish i'd made a aioli with it but never mind it's great great good i like this salad actually i haven't done this salad before i like the cucumbers yeah well they're the little baby ones that are sweeter and nice Do you know what else I like in Camwell Arms?

31:20I like it too. Just the best. The best. It's so good. I like it because they do like Brussels sprouts with pickled onions as a starter in the winter. They just really hit it. The dishes really hit it. I actually really like sitting at the counter and just having a quick dinner with my husband and walking home. Raiden, you've mentioned your mum. Yeah. She does a mean trifle. Who was cooking round the dinner table and who's round the dinner table when you were a young boy? Me and my mum. Are you an only child? I'm an only child, single parent, mother, and I'm gay. So it was very close. We were tight for a really long time.

32:00She met my stepdad when I was about 14. So I just passed the age of wanting a father figure. I found him quite annoying coming into the picture. Right. For the first time ever, there was like traditions. But when it's just the two of you, you're just like, whatever, what are we doing? And he was like, we're just going to have a roast on a Sunday. And we were both like, okay. And then it was like, oh, how nice. we had a lot of yeah yeah yeah yeah it morphed slowly over time into something that's like really close i don't know when i realized it was like my relationship with him isn't dependent on him on my mum at all it's like he's my dad that's it so that's really nice and he cooks he is a real cook and is a real one for like i think like me he quite likes going to the fridge and just looking what's in it and making a meal out of it rather than thinking about following a recipe or making cooking did you know your real dad lives in brixton still see him very occasionally he really can cook a really mean chicken and well i don't really eat that much rice used to do me like jamaican chicken and pasta i was growing up you don't like rice when i was young i was like i just don't get it and now I'm like yeah sure I would never cook it so what would you cook for a dinner party oh that's such a good question we're coming over got the wine sorted in the summer, the winter oh that's so tricky I really like cooking a dal and I know that's not very exciting I think I admire you anyone who can cook Indian food love a dal I can't do it and I like all the bits that come with it and doing a nice radish pickle that has rice babe Yeah, but sometimes I just...

33:42Would you have the rice or would you just have like breads and rotis? Yeah, I wouldn't. At home, like during the week, I wouldn't have any of the breads. I wouldn't have any rice. I just have the dal. The lentils are enough. But then in the winter, I really like a gratin. I really like eating... What is it I really like? What's the one where you put salmon on crout? That's the one. That's the key. It's so rich. Mmm. Really? Delish. Yeah. I used to make this like meatballs. That's very retro. Yeah, I know. but I quite like because I didn't have the trifle after yeah I know because I didn't have many traditional things when I was going up I'm quite drawn to like traditional British fare I find it quite exciting how have you and Richard made traditions yourself like maybe free food good question well we just I mean my husband loves the snack he's always got a snack also his love language if you want to call it that is like buying sweet carbs so I know that he like he'll be like would you like some cake or like I've got you a treat and I was like is it sweet bread and he's like yeah that's really nice I used to be really into like cooking a dinner every night and I think that's fallen away into the pandemic and back out again I think during the pandemic I was cooking a lot yeah I was quite excited about getting a box of food and making lots of different stuff it really occupied my time making a lot of nice like rhubarb cakes and stuff like that and I think it becomes so convenient in the last couple of years i wish i actually wish i was cooking more but we get a veg box every week so so you're quite veggie throughout the week we get a veg box every week i quite like that it has stuff i wouldn't pick up in the supermarket so then it's like oh i have to do something with this beetroot and then it means we eat more varied stuff but i feel like you're a man about town like you're always out raven i love being up i am a real homebody when I'm out I'm out people always say to me like how I am like I'm good because if I'm not good then I just go home like I don't really push myself to be out when I don't want to be I'm like oh I'll just be at home I spend a lot more time at home during the day now I'm freelance which used to which when I first went freelance and I was still looking for like lots of work it was like four days a week just at home just like mooching like worrying about making some money and now it's like if I get a day at home it's heaven it's like heaven on earth what's your favourite hotel in London?

36:06Oh, Hazlitt's. Did you stay there? Oh, in Soho. It's really small. Yeah. We stayed there on our wedding night. We stayed there on our first ever Valentine's Day. Need I say more? We stayed there on a few birthdays. I've always had this romantic idea of living in Soho. And the one time we did, it wasn't great. But I still think of it as like a great thing to do. But it's really... When did you live there? If you just want to get to the Tube, it's like 20 minutes walking through people. Yeah. But if you just want to potter around, it's really nice. And it's less a square tube. It's not great, is it?

36:38It's a bit stressy. Yeah. Also, they clean the streets five times a day because it's the dirtiest place on it. But also the cleanest at the same time. But you get the best food. You get to go to Dumplings Legend like every night. It's great. No Dumplings Legend? I kind of want, no. A white room, loads of white tables and it's like dim sum, but it's really, really good. Oh, I love dim sum. Yeah, it's really, really good. Always over order. They do have a spinning table so you can just have some of this. I think I want your life. Dumplings legend. It's really good. There is. Do you want some? There you go.

37:13You can see a little bit of the pink there. It's positively rosy. It's making me a bit sad. Oh mum please. Look at its little teeth. Oh shut up. No I mean I didn't know that I was meant to put you off. That wasn't meant to put you off. No there isn't any fish. No there isn't I'm afraid. We'll just have to go on to the pudding. Your cats will be happy. Suck on the grill. I'm sure there's some there. Yeah, would you like to eat the eye? Oh, do you know we had this fellow round? Yeah. Andrew Wong, who's got that restaurant. Yeah, Michelin star chef A Wong. A Wong. He came round and he had the eye.

37:47Yeah, great. Oh my God. That feels like a challenge. I don't know how to get it. If you give me the eye. Would you? No. No, don't. Neither of you are telling me to. Do it. Do it. Would you eat it? No, don't. I wouldn't eat it. and it pops. If I give you another glass of wine. No, do not give him the eye. He wants to fucking do it. He's thinking about it. He might have seen something bad. I'm thinking about this purely because I'm trying to say yes to new things. Oh, no. Don't do it. Do you want to eat the eye? No, thanks. Okay. So, Raven, we ask everybody our last supper. Okay, okay, okay. Starter, main, pud, drink of choice.

38:23This is really tough because there's a bit in my book where I talk about what I would have for my dream meal. Has it changed? Probably, because in my dream meal, in the book it is a small creme brulee a savory creme brulee a normal creme brulee at the end uh what would i have for my perfect meal my most favorite thing to eat is like french bread and salted butter like i just can't the french salt yeah yeah yeah so that is one of my most favorite things to eat where do you get your bread from well the boulangerie by my house in france does a pretty mean baguette so i would get if it was my dream it would be from there okay and that butter with the crystals.

38:59You clearly don't have veneers, darling. I've got the butter with the crystals here. I can't eat them anymore. Oh, right, because they're toughies. Yeah, and it brings off my veneers. You know what I've learned, though, what you're supposed to do? You turn the baguette upside down so you bite with the hard thing underneath. That doesn't matter, Jess. What I do is break it up and put it in the back burner. No, it doesn't like rip your roof of your house. I'm like storing it for winter. Like a little squirrel. The squirrels put nuts in their cheeks. Yeah. Yeah, interesting. Only when they're gathering them and then they put them down somewhere.

39:32Yeah. Do you have any animals? Got a cat called Hastings. Of course you have. I read about this. He's the best. How old is Hastings? Oh, he's ten. Younger than you. Younger than me. He's ten, so halfway. My husband said he's not young anymore and I started crying. Like, I can't deal with the cat not being around. There forever. This would be a bad fight. Would you like my cat? I've gone off my cat. How young is a cat? My cat's 15. It's like needing euthanasia. It's fucking good. We haven't finished your last supper. Oh, okay. The main. I want lobster. What was your starter? The French bread? Is that a nut?

40:13I love a prawn cocktail. Oh, have one. I think it's coming back prawn cocktail. It better be. We should do a dinner. It's like Cosmos and cocktail. Crayfish cocktail. Yeah, delicious. No, prawn cocktail is the best. Yeah. What I like to do, when I went to Scots, I had like a really fancy like tiger prawn fancy thing and then I just had fish and chips for my main. So I'd probably have fish and chips for my main. Mushy peas? Mushy peas, maybe. Tartar sauce? Tartar sauce, 100%. Vinegar on your chips? Vinegar on my chips, vinegar on my fish. Okay. Do you like a good batter? I like it when I don't I really just like it when my lap is burning in the car and I'm eating fish and chips and it's like cold outside that is it there's two different puddings okay now shall I explain the puddings yeah I have not made them because I've gone for a Nora Ephron approach okay where you order in it's called lazy no I haven't written about them no it's not called lazy it's making people happy and I know that you're going to leave really thrilled there is a new pub around the corner and they have new a new restaurant it's an old pub it's an old pub that they've redone up we're thrilled that it's not luxury flats and there's these guys called gengelys who are fab and i went and i had their puddings at the weekend and i thought i feel like you as a south london i will appreciate a really delicious pudding so so something of a local pud myself.

41:46So we've got a lemon butter slice, which is kind of like a lemon tart, with some creme fraiche and lemon zest. And then we've got Yorkshire tea ice cream with a little biscuit crumble and a whisky roux. Oh, well done. I really thought about this. I knew you would like this. So you want a bit of everything on the plate. Well, I'm just thinking, should I just do two plates and then we do spoons and fit in? or would you like your own lemon size? I would prefer to dig in with a spoon sword fight. Just needed to check that. Table man. Mum, I feel like you're already having a loving with Raylan's gift.

42:25I'm having a good time. I love him. We're having a good time. So what else your dad cooks? Do you go round there? My dad did cook a lot. He used to cook really good Jamaican food and I went a couple of years ago. What's your heritage then? My dad's Jamaican and my mum's from North London. North, North of London. I loved my dad's food, but I couldn't tell you if it was good on the scale of like how other Jamaican people cook food. Like it was delicious. Jerk. Jerk, chicken. We used to have a lot of like really long cooked chicken. We used to have plantain. Did you know his family? Yeah, but we didn't, I don't remember eating with them ever.

43:04Okay. And I remember him always saying you should have a hot breakfast. So we'd do hot milk on Weetabix. that was a major thing did he come to the wedding no just your two months this is so like therapy but like just before when after richard proposed i was like i should probably make contact with my dad and i did and it was really nice and i was like but i don't need to invite to like i didn't feel bad so you're not close close to your stepdad oh yeah man he's like my dad like if my mum died we'd have the exact same relationship like it's not contingent on my mum at all he's great, there's a whole chapter about him in my book it's a lot of people's favourite chapter because it talks about how masculinity that isn't overbearing but is long term caring is really powerful and that's what he is to me he retired a couple of years ago he was a civil engineer so he's used to building stuff and he makes your mum happy oh my god she's sublimely happy, it's a little bit annoying This looks so good.

44:06It does, doesn't it? I'm just trying to get a photo of it. What's the cream? So the cream is, which I thought was really clever. It's a whiskey roux. So it's like a white sauce that they've made with a little bit of whiskey. Wow. There you go. Ask any of our family about sharing with Jessie. How does it go? It doesn't go well, so I'm going to step away right now. Oh, oh, oh. And let you have a few bites. She eats everything before you've even started. Okay. I had a boyfriend like that once. Did you? Not anymore. Yeah, you have to get rid of the ones that eat milk. This is great. Mmm. Nice, right?

44:45Yeah. Really good. Yum. Really yummy. And the whiskey. See, I'm not good at pudding, so why would I give you? Oh. Whiskey Roo. Is it called Whiskey Roo? Yeah. I wouldn't be able to tell that was tea. No, I know, but that's what's quite clever about it, right? I'm getting tea. I know what you mean. I like that. It's like tea and biscuits. I prefer the lemon. Do you? I'm gonna have a bit of lemon. We like that because it's closer to a creme brulee. Yeah. I like a lemon tart. I feel like pastries are a lot of hard work. Oh yeah. Really hard work. Do you make your own pastry? No. I avoid pastry dishes.

45:27I love a cream. Are you butter and sugar in a blender poured over rhubarb. I mean, that's literally... Was that her galette? I don't know. She was like, when I met with her, she was like, you're an old, old, old school fan. And I was like, yeah. That lemon is bloody good, isn't it? I think the ice cream needs to defrost a bit. I think it's too hard at the moment. I don't even know what that is or how she's made it. He calls it his nana's, his nan's lemon butter slice. So there's a lot of butter, a lot of lemon and eggs. It's like a lemony custard. it's got a real school fate feeling i like it so raven yes i feel like you have given us so much food so much indulgence so much pleasure cocktails cocktails have you got good table manners yes oh my god was on the table as you asked me but that's the main one isn't it and isn't that really not a bad one i don't think what is next for raven smith apart from conquering america and maybe getting a chilled red on the old summer wine selection.

46:35What is next for you? I'm thinking about my next book. I'm really hoping to have a summer of very little and then I'm going to Egypt in November. Why? It's my birthday. Oh, it must be a small birthday. It must be the third year. It must be 32 again. So that's it. Work for me just like suddenly it appears out of nowhere and I'm like, let's go. let's talk about the book men yes people in the uk that listen to this can already get it but in the states it's coming out in the states it's out july 18th is it about all the men in your life yeah it's a memoir told through the men in my life and the man i've been at different stages uh but it also i think is funny and has good crack i mean i fake an orgasm in the first chapter on a beach how feedback of you you and you and meg what's her name meg ryan yeah uh so it's got it's got good stories from things that have happened to me but it is also i've found that in the pandemic i was stuck at home with all of my thoughts and feelings remembering my history and i realized how much of them are caught up with like my relationship with men so i just that is the kind of framework that tells the memoir but i work in a kitchen i work all over the place lived in new york for a bit so that lots of different stuff happens so people that haven't men go and read it otherwise they can read your column in vogue yep uh american vogue columnist weekly column heart of the internet and i write about american vogue too american vogue i feel like i have to always put american in there um i was at british vogue for a bit left was at the sunday times and then did an interview about my first book and then i was like i should get a column there and i basically just didn't stop i kept being like i think this is a really good idea they were like we're not sure and i was like let's just try let's just try and they so we tried it do you think you could be the next editor of it no you're essentially carrie bradshaw i don't think carrie bradshaw could edit vote what's his has the editor just gone edward in the uk has just gone yes he's got he's moved into like a bigger global role so there will be a new editor of British folk where I don't work.

48:48Yeah, we're all part of the same folk community. No, we are. It doesn't matter. We are, but my editors are in the States. Do you know who it's going to be? There's always rumours, and it's always like a surprise and not a surprise when you find out. Why don't you do it? Why don't you go for it? Do you have to be more fashion? I think your desire to talk to tell good stories is also alongside managing the expectations of a lot of people, and that's not... I've been really lucky in the last five or six years where I get to do things that I really want to do. I'm very like, sit on my own and write the story I want to write rather than get someone to help me do this, this, this and this.

49:22I've become very independent in how I work. I have always said no. And then I had dinner with a friend of mine. I had lunch at Quo Vadis with a friend who's a novelist. And she was like, just write it. And I was like, yeah, maybe. Like, I just feel very differently about it suddenly. But if you can write, you can write. I also think it's just, it's just what's the story. Not that I don't have a story to tell. I think something will happen. What normally happens to me is I'm like, have a moment of not working and my head is clear and then I'm like, this is what I want to do next. Raven Smith, you have been a treat.

49:58Thank you so much for coming on. Actually, I feel like this is the most kind of comprehensive conversation me and you have ever really had. That might be true.

50:21Well, Mum, have you got a new friend to go to theatre with? It's my Cosmo partner, darling. He was absolutely lovely. What people didn't hear is when Raven was getting his cab, Mum shouted to him, When you drink a Cosmo, think of me. I hope I haven't sport Cosmos for him forever. I don't think you're the first thing on his mind as a gay man. A 70-year-old woman, 71-year-old, comes to mind when you have a Cosmo. Thank you to Raven Smith. His book is out now. But if you're in America, then it's coming out for you at the end of July. It's called Men, and you can also read his column. Or follow him on Instagram.

50:59He's very funny on Instagram. He knows everybody. He does. Well-connected, we say. And also, very good food anecdotes. Very. Mum, how was the food? It was delicious. The fish was gorgeous. The thing is about fish on the bone... You never fucking get anything. You don't get anything. What is it? I know. You're best with a fillet. Or are we greedy? No, darling, that was... I'm so sad my basket didn't come. It was a mouthful at the back of your tongue. Honestly, it was not a lot of fish. I have to say, my salt and vinegar potatoes were really yummy tonight. And they were very crispy and hard at the outside.

51:33Well, you know what? I boiled them first, thinking I was going to do a potato salad. And I thought, that just depresses me. Yeah, this was delicious. That salad was quite nice too. Delicious. How did you like your pudding? Delicious. Everything was great. That was so lemony. I know. It was like a lemon meringue. It was like a lemon tart. So it was like a very... Tarts is wrong. No, it was like a lemon meringue pie almost. But you know what I like? The pastry was quite thick. And chewy. It was yummy. Anyway, Gengalese. Go check it out. on Telegraph Hill, New Crossgate. And what a delight Jacob is.

52:14See, do you see why I put on like two stones since living in New Crossgate? He's an entrepreneurial gem. What a guy. What a lovely boy. But what about the hot Jesse? You even liked Indusia. I don't think I did. Did you lie to Jacob? I thought it was delicious. I wasn't sure about the honey, to be perfectly honest. What are you talking about? You shoved that in your mouth and that is why you've got it on your chest, mum. Dolly, I got on my chest because you didn't give me a napkin. And it was dripping down us. You had it dripping. Delicious. The Hot Jesse is out for another week, unless you make it your firm favourite, and it stays on the menu.

52:49Raven Spitz Book's out very soon, but it's available now in the UK. And, oh yeah, I have an album called That Feels Good that came out two months ago. Shove it in there too as well. You can go and buy that too. Oh shit, I forgot to give him a dishcloth. A dishcloth? Who am I? An American. A tablecloth. we'll send him on he'll probably make a shirt out of it