Sara Pascoe

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1:05Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here at my house on cooking duty. And we have a comedian. We haven't had a comedian for ages. Ages, I love a comedian, Jessie. We've wanted Sarah Pascoe for years. She's fabulous. She's coming over and we are making a vegetarian meal. I think I thought she was vegan, but apparently she's a vegetarian. I've had quite a stressful morning. I'm trying a new heart rate thing. this whoop thing and i why are you trying that i want to understand myself better um anyway i'm doing that and i just had a very stressful thing where i got to have to get into the children's activities we did go for brunch at gicconi's at the weekend ravinda bogle has a new gicconi brunch menu i have to say that bread and butter and bacon and grier pudding was very delicious we loved it i'm still thinking about it um how was your weekend mom i was with you

2:08christ i wouldn't have thought you'd forget that and we're tethered when we go to los angeles um speaking of which so pudding wise is our friend from los angeles benny blanco has a new book out called open wide it's coming out in april sometime and so we tried out one of his recipes which is key lime pie yep i feel like every great cookbook has to have a key lime pie mother absolutely done and then for mains i'm i've done anna jones has also got a new cookbook out and it's called easy wins and it is so good for any vegetarians you should absolutely be getting anna jones cookbooks and this one is brilliant um and it focuses on different ingredients like staple ingredients so an onion or garlic tahini chili um tomatoes and how you can use them so i'm making an aubergine parmigiana but it's done with chili and a really nice oregano breadcrumb topping and then um I've done her wedge salad which I didn't have the herbs for the chives and dill but it's really nice it's wedge salad you make a tahini and yogurt dressing with some lemon juice and some garlic and you do some croutons with um green olives in it too and it just looks really nice so we're doing that for mains uh we have sarah pasco who's coming over to talk excited well lots of things but she does have a new book out called weirdo well actually it's not a new book it was hardback last year and now it's come out in paperback it's called weirdo it's her first novel um she also has a podcast with an old table manners guest lovely carrie ad lloyd called the weirdos book club and she is coming over for lunch sarah pasco coming up on table manners

4:04Sarah Pascoe thanks so much for being here thank you so much we have wanted you on for so long I wanted to come on because my best friend Cariad said this is one of the best things she's ever done not even like not even like promo like the best things she's ever done We loved her. She loved you. We loved Cariad. She had such a lovely time. And mum thought she was incredibly confident about her... Confident about her meringues. Her meringues. Have you ever tried a Cariad meringue? Well, she said, I actually want to tell you, I make the best meringues you've ever tasted in your whole life. Mum said, that's quite...

4:36I've only seen them. She wouldn't let you taste them. Well, no, it's because I'm a vegan, so... But she... They're quite ugly. Oh, my God. No, no, no, no, no. Actually. Hold on. No, we have to... they said you were vegetarian yeah you know i am vegetarian i'm vegetarian i'm vegetarian i i okay what i should say is i have i have i've always been a vegan and then with pregnancy and breast feeding i became okay more lax because i always thought you were a vegan yes i was a vegan are we okay with some cheese today shitting hell did you see our faces also if you'd cooked a burger i probably would have eaten it condense milk no it's all great it's all going to be fabulous Okay, God.

5:16It hasn't got meat in it. But my point with the... No, but it's cream. Yes. But my point with the meringue, to bring it back to Cariad, is they always look very sloppy. But maybe they taste amazing. And I'm sure they do. Sarah, you and Cariad went to Sussex Uni, didn't you? Yes, that's right. I wonder if we overlapped. I was at Sussex. Oh, were you? I finished in 2007. Oh, so I finished 2004, so just before you. What did you study there? English literature. Oh, I had no idea. What did you study? English. So did Cariad. um so a few years ago they would have asked you they did an alumni thing where they wanted to inspire their students and that they could go on to do anything so they asked lots of the i guess notable alumni if they wanted to have a mask made of their face do you remember this i did not get that email it was probably a dm on instagram rather than an email okay so maybe tell me more well everyone said no apart from me and frankie boyle which meant and i so i thought every you Everyone would have said yes.

6:10Lovely to say to students, you can do whatever you want with English rather than you can do nothing. You've got a stupid degree and lots of debt. And so, yeah, these students were all in a lecture hall and they had a choice of me or Frankie Boyle. That was it for their future. For a mask? And they were all wearing the masks. How did they make it? Oh, my God. The mask? You know those paper ones with holes in the eyes? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a picture. So it wasn't like a COVID mask. So you were like wearing your face on your mouth. No. Okay. Did you get one? No. Did they not even send one in the post?

6:43No. So I was thinking of those for your 40th, darling. Of course. We all wear them. That's a good idea. Like a hen do, yeah. Now I'm thinking, just to discuss, I'm not going to do Studio 84 anymore. Why? I'm going to do closing parties. I thought you were Studio 54. Well, because we were born in 84. Oh, sorry. Of course. I was doing a little play on, you know. Okay. What are you doing? I'm going to do a closing party, like they do in Ibiza, but it's a closing party to my thirties so it's going to be a big how do you feel about that lenny maybe it's a bit niche we don't know closing parties i know closing ceremonies from the olympics is that what you mean yeah we'll bring the flag around yeah we'll get danny boyle to direct it for you amazing jesse i'm not sure about that okay it sounds too full-on clubby yeah and everyone sounds like they'll be hungover and tired where's the food you are tired at the moment you're on full coffees.

7:38Yes, but I also think the whole thing of turning 40 isn't like, oh, now I'm exhausted, my 30s are done. You've got loads more to do. No, but the closing parties in Ibiza are the big party. Oh, are they? Okay. Clearly, I've never been. And also, I don't know. I've been, I just didn't go to any parties. I don't know about you, Sarah, but I've been going to a few big birthday parties, and I feel like there's too much small talk. And I think people, if you're going for a night out, you've got two kids, young children. If you're going out, you've got that babysitter maybe you've got the babysitter you've got like she wants to talk to people without little ones i want to dance i don't want to talk you're both wrong the whole point of having a job in the evenings is you never have to go to anyone's parties or anyone's weddings or anyone's anything because you're booked up well in advance they go what are you doing june 25 and you go sorry i'm in manchester you don't have to ever go anywhere ever so are you more of a kind of a A brunch gal.

8:36Oh, no, I just don't. At the moment, I don't socialise at all. Except a podcast. A podcast, yes. I get to see Carly because we have a book podcast. I get to see you today because we're coming out of your house. I love work, but it's very limited at the moment because we haven't yet really worked out childcare. And my husband's Australian, so his family are really far away. So we don't really have a lot of family support. Oh, we can come and baby. Oh, Lenny, that would be lovely. We'll steal you. Do you live locally? No, we're in New Finsbury Park. You won't come there. Well, it's fair enough. I used to live in Lewisham and then I would have been the same.

9:10Yeah, I used to live there. Do you miss Lewisham? No. I found the trains hard. I love being on the Victoria line, actually. And you really appreciate it after you've been overgrown. Is that because you're always in Soho doing comedy? Yeah. Yeah, I'm always travelling back from a gig. That's the thing, yeah. It is important. You don't want to be standing on one of those like, oh, no, it's cancelled. There's one in 40 minutes in the drizzle. Yeah. who's looking after your babies when you're doing comedy at my husband who also does he's a comedian yes so we're having to balance we're having to balance and negotiate at the moment did you meet him on the comedy circuit i kind of did i was introduced to him in edinburgh but i don't remember because someone also came in with a really nice spaniel so someone went oh this is steen that's his name and i was like oh my god look at that spaniel so i really like accidentally he had good game.

10:04Does he make you laugh? I'm trying to remember. Oh my God, that's terrible. No, he does. Is he funny? He's adorable. He's, you know, when you're in the trenches with young children and earaches and not sleeping, you do need someone who's good company through that, going through it with you and then doing something funny. So do you all have a big laugh in the middle of the night? Except the baby. There's lots of games and silliness I would say there's lots of when one person's down you know it's the other person's job to bring a bit of his back to bring the performance yes yeah um let's take it back to where you grew up where did you grow up and who was around the dinner table right so I grew up in mostly in Essex and um we didn't really eat at a table but mum and then two younger sisters and I think we're a bit feral.

10:58I think there's a lot of sort of coping. So my mum had to work, you know, because she was supporting a family by herself and so there was a lot of microwave pizzas and Christina, my younger sister, she only ate microwave chicken curry. Any particular brand? I don't know, I can't remember the brand. I know it was had a paper box. Oh, it was eco-friendly. Yeah, back in the day. It used to be bird's eye, darling. Was it? It was paper. Yeah. It was always a little paper box. Was it? Yeah. So that's what I remember. And we very rarely ate around a table. And both of my sisters have rebelled from our childhood, Christina especially.

11:36And now they are very much, they've both got children. And they very much sit at the table, don't have phones, have conversation. And then now they grow vegetables and things in their gardens. Very healthy. Because we didn't have a healthy diet growing up. And what about you? I like Deliveroo. I'm very excited by the fact you can order anything. And what was your last Deliveroo order? Shopping from Waitrose. Oh, no, I did a Gales this morning. Theodore, my son, who's two, gets really excited by the doorbell because he always thinks people just bring, like, these bags of cakes. And he's like, what is it?

12:18So Gales was this morning, and what was in the order today? I feel really ashamed of this. oh god why am i ashamed um because i i like my son gets to he's only two but he gets disappointed if i've only bought him one cake so because his favorite is the honey cake but i think he likes the like oh i've not seen this one before have a bite of that and then my husband will eat them all but so two flat whites second coffee of the day how did that travel do they deliver flat coffee yes yeah i mean it's expensive it's expensive it is yeah i mean i think they're 4.20 for a flat white before you've put in your own milk.

12:52But they're a good flat white. No, no. Plus delivery cost. I would say, I would say actually, controversially, not strong enough. The very weak coffee. Why don't you make your own? Well, you already have. So this, this is the current system. We keep going, the coffee isn't strong enough. We're just such addicts because we're so tired. So go to the kitchen, you make one with one of those little French press. Yeah, yeah. Boily ones. Because that's the strongest we can make it. Do you mean the, the espresso one? The Italian one. Yes, yes, yes. The Italian one. Jessie's got those. And then that was too far away.

13:22So I bought a sort of like an espresso machine for the bedroom, like a hotel. For the bedroom. So you have a little shot to get you to the kitchen. So you make your proper coffee. God. And then sometimes, so the Gail's coffee is more like a milkshake to drink. Sarah, you're definitely living on caffeine. I am, yeah. I love the shot to get you out of bed, like just to get you downstairs. Jessie, I hate to say this, but that jacket is strictly Lewisham or Peckham Market. How long have you been waiting to say that? But I've just noticed how extraordinary it is. Well, actually, I've got it in Margate.

13:59Have you got the matching trousers? No, but I'm ready for Glastonbury, so go do one. God, she's a bitch. There is something about a mum's gaze. Do you think? Oh, I think so. I now feel like I'm really standing out. You're not. I've got very neutral. I'm just going to take it off. No, I really liked your jacket. There was definitely not a comment necessary for your jacket, Lenny. That looks lovely. Absolutely. I can't even get it off. I've got this new thing. It looks like I'm on a tag. What is it? What is it? It's called Whoop. Oh, yeah. And apparently it tells you all your things, your stats.

14:39Oh, yeah. And so how you slept. Yes. You should not get one at the moment, Sarah. But you know how you slept, don't you? No, you don't. You don't know how much REM sleep you had or deep sleep. And there's lots of things that affect your sleep. But what's the point of knowing that? Can I tell you? Because you can't alter it. I'll give you an example. If you have one glass of wine, just one, you know, you will have less deep restorative sleep that night. And when you see it tracked on an app, you might make different decisions. Sugar, the amount of sugar you eat in the daytime might not affect one person, might really affect you.

15:10and then you start going, oh, I'm having bad night's sleep. I'm waking up a lot more because of my diet. I would never sleep if I didn't have one glass of wine. I would actually not go to sleep. Well, actually, Whoop may tell you otherwise. Yes, Whoop might say, have a Horlicks and a bath and read a book for a bit, don't look at any screens. That wine isn't serving you well. Tell us about your book, please. And why, we want to read all the books. Do you always talk about this much? Yes, sorry. No, it's great. I thought it was a nice I thought it led in quite nicely She was thrilled with that segue She thought that was Holly in film I thought it was nice you weren't insulting anyone's clothes You look gorgeous Is the book out?

15:58It came out in hardback last year and then it's just coming out in paperback Okay, need to buy it Yeah No, because it looks really, really interesting and fun. I've tried to be fun. I've tried to be fun in it. It always feels like to ask someone to read a book of yours is asking them to spend such a long time with you, really, isn't it? It's hard. I think it's okay. No, I think it's okay, but you want it to be good. Like an entire album or a play or a film, someone's going to spend a lot of time with you. Do you describe yourself as a comedian or an author? Comedian. Comedian's my proper job. Okay.

16:40Yeah. All right, your proper job. Yeah, my proper job, yeah. So when do you find time with two children and your proper job to write books? Well, comedy is amazing for two reasons. One is that it is a short amount of time at night. So actually it's quite good with young children because you do have your day. and then conversely it is quite good for writing because you have a lot of time around it and once you've got a set or a show you don't spend a lot of time working on your comedy you might do stuff I might end up doing a little bit of writing before or after a gig but you do get chunks of time I mean because most comics would work 20 minutes a day and then you have the travel as well which is good for writing I know it's a brilliant job well where's most of your comedy Just rooms above and below pubs, a lot of it.

17:30And then theatres and things as well. You're too well known for that now. No. The other really beautiful thing about comedy is it's very levelling. Like you don't really ever get... You get the status to an extent and you tour on things, but really when it's new, you're right back to the beginning with brand new stuff, trying it out. Have you watched Hacks? I love Hacks, yeah. Is it quite authentic? I think it's always awkward watching stand-up that's been written by writers because her stand-up in it isn't great and stand-up's never great in anything when it's writers comedy writers writing stand-up and an actor performing stand-up so actually they do quite a good job considering it's not that funny I think it's funny the show is funny but then when she does a gag isn't that the point that she's kind of lost her But the audience in the room laughs, so they always think it's funny.

18:24Yes. Well, there's Mrs. Meisel. Yes. But her stand-up bits are sometimes funny. Yeah, not always. But sometimes they're not always. Have you ever been in the writer's room to do any writing for television? And would you? No. Maybe you need to go on a third series of Hacks and sort it out, babe. I don't like working with other people, Jessie. I like being by myself. And I think the more you do stand-up, the more you become this little one-man band who doesn't like collaborating. I find stand-up comedians to be... I mean, it's my idea of hell. Yeah, most people think that, which is great. And why did you...

19:02I'm sure you've been asked this question a lot, but when did you think, I'm going to go and put myself in front of a room full of strangers. I... It wasn't a conscious decision. It was a meander. It was an accidental thing. I was trying to be an actor. I'd always wanted to be an actor. I lived with Carrie Ad and her mum, actually, in Barnet. And that's what we wanted to do. We were auditioning for drama school. We were trying to do all of these jobs that were acting adjacent, like TIE or working in old people's homes doing plays and all these kind of things. What was TIE? Theatre and education.

19:34When you do plays in schools and stuff like that. That's what I really wanted to do. And then I was doing a topical sketch show and there was a boy in it who did stand-up comedy. And I'd never been to see it. I thought stand-up was improvised. I thought Jack D was making it all up. Billy Connolly just went on stage and went, hey, a funny thing happened on the way here, and then it just grew. I just had no idea. No, you scripted it before. And then I went to watch a gig with all these lads in raincoats with pads, and they weren't very good. And I was like, oh, I can do that. And then I did stand-up for a while as a character, so I did it as an acting thing to try and keep my hand in while I was temping and doing proper work.

20:15What was your character called? I can't remember. I had some few... I had Mrs. Nudy, who's a detective who was naked underneath her coat. And she solved crimes. I put all of these clues underneath the audiences. How clever. And they had to sort of read out the clues. Would you ever bring Mrs. Nudy back? As I said it, I was like, where's Mrs. Nudy? I feel like that's quite Julia... It was nighty-night. It kind of feels like she could be quite... Maybe not. Maybe, yeah. I love her. But you should bring... You should bring Mrs. Nudy back to yourself. I should. Maybe I should. but what I discovered through the live performance I there's a few things about stand-up comedy which are just delicious number one is it's quite democratic in that the audience don't want to see you and don't enjoy you then you don't have a career and if they do you do it feels it felt so much fairer than the other crafts and arts yeah there were lots and lots of people in other fields we all know who are amazing at what they do and don't make enough money and stand-up there's a lot of people who are fine and have a mortgage and you can just you can just work and gig and and the other thing i absolutely loved compared to acting was that you could ring up and get a gig you can or turn up somewhere and go can i play next week and they just the at the point where no one's getting paid everyone's doing five and tens and then what i realized is the reason i was a terrible actor is i really what are five and tens slots so five slots five minutes okay five and ten minutes But if you're doing a comedy night and you're doing 10 minutes, people aren't there for you particularly.

21:46No, which means you have to win people over really quickly. It's like doing festivals. Yeah. I love that. And there's something very grounding about it because you don't get this like, hooray, you're the reason we left the house. It's like you're meeting someone who's shaking their hand going, hello, I'm Sarah, this is some stuff about me. And then I think it's very good for the ego. The reason I was a terrible actor was that I didn't ever lose myself in the way that incredible actors do. they become and I always resisted it and I really as soon as I did stand up I was like oh it's because I want to talk about myself I didn't want to be lady in my birth do you still enjoy talking about yourself I think I find that's where I connect with people as in you find bits about your life that are both idiosyncratic and universal and then this beautiful thing happens where people go I understand or I feel the same and that's what you're looking that's why you make stuff is to make yourself feel better about yourself and hopefully you know other people feel better about themselves and that and stand-up comedy that's what it is that's why people go on and talk about themselves in quite negative ways or the things that go wrong or the bits where the things that happen where you're a fool it's it's all to go like you know oh we should laugh shouldn't we where was your first comedy gig it was in balham actually really where at the bedford which is has a new act oh yeah it's got actually it's it's got a very good comedy night yeah yeah i heard so they have a big room with banana cabaret and then they have a small room where they yeah again a night where everyone would be doing five minutes and lots of people very very new to comedy or trying new material and so audiences who did who i'm gonna say who want to go to those kind of things when you see people who are very new or new acts doing very new material it really is the it's watching a process yeah yeah you know it's it's uh it's watching the sausages being made and people um some people really enjoy it so it's quite a safe safe-ish place to do it it does smell lovely oh so um you must know anna jones because every vegetarian must know anna jones okay so anna jones is amazing okay and she's got a new book out and i just made something from it.

23:53It's an aubergine parmigiana, but it's got a little bit of

24:00chipotle. Mum thought it was chipotle. I would have said chipotle, so I'm... Maybe it is chipotle. I don't know. I thought it was chipotle. We've now got three different things. Chipotle. Chipotle and chipotle. I thought it was pronounced giappolinos. And it's not. So these wheels are really hard. I thought there was a whole restaurant chain in America called chipotle. Oh, Chipotle? Is it not called, the restaurant chain's not called Chipotle? Maybe it is. Oh, it is Chipotle. Oh my God, you're wrong. I'm wrong. You're wrong. At least Mum's wrong too. Chipotle, not Chipotle. So I'm not so... Yeah, you're right.

24:37You were extra sort of... Chipotle. Chipotle. Well, I wasn't just far away as I thought. It's a combination of the three. Yes, it's a combination of the three. Fair enough. We each had a syllable right. And then this is a salad that actually is vegan. Oh, gorgeous. but it's um and this is another recipe it's it's tahini with kind of oat creed oat oat milk creme fresh because i didn't have greek yogurt and then it's just got croutons and olives i'm so sorry my brain is not working today anyway just yeah put some in thank you you're welcome i never eat aubergines you know what my instant reaction is like no not an aubergine and then you just cook them so brilliantly.

25:18I don't think I actually have. I feel like some of them are a bit uncooked. I think that's probably better than soggy. I think you probably really have. Okay, you're being really sweet. Thank you. Can we ask you, so would you call yourself a foodie, Sarah? No. Right. So it's a lot of delivery gales, which is pretty delish. But if we were coming over, what would you order in? Or would you cook? If you were coming over, my husband, who is half Greek, half Australian. we love greek he does the most incredible roast potatoes oh anytime i think our marriage is on the rocks you know we've not had enough sleep he brings out the roast potatoes yeah she just thinks about them yeah or he's got he takes pictures every time does he do it with lemon does it with a few things but yes lemons are involved do you look at a picture of the potato and you go yeah i know i married him yeah yeah so he cooks it if he were coming over we would do you he does a i guess a greek style roast which is much more potatoes and salads and he would make you a big, some kind of hunk of meat that he's cooked for six hours.

26:21I wouldn't eat. Who's not veggie and you still love him? So yeah, was it like my big fat Greek wedding? When you got together and was it like were they all asking you to eat lamb? Well, the opposite, Jessie. He'd already had a big Greek wedding. I was his second wife. We were planning to get married. Right. But then he didn't apply for his visa in time. And there's another comic called Sikisa who's amazing and she's um her other job is that she's um immigration lawyer and she said if you leave the country and come back in married that's the quickest way to get so that's what we did we captain ryan was marrying her husband bobby yeah and copenhagen yeah and they knew this loophole that if you got you only had to be in copenhagen or in denmark for 24 hours to get married there and it's it's so much quicker to come back in married and apply for a marriage visa than it is to apply for a fiancé visa which takes six months.

27:14She kind of grep in the green dip but in Copenhagen. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. And it was that weekend or that week where, you know, the Thomas Cook sort of folded. I was in Cuba doing a documentary and then we didn't have a flight back and I hadn't told anyone. My documentary crew were like, oh, it's actually, you know, the production company is going to put us up in this incredible hotel until the planes are back and I was like, I had to get to Europe, I'm getting married. And then we came back on an aeroplane, which was the Thomas Cook staff but they'd all lost their jobs so they were crying and just going home and obviously not working but sort of tokenly just doing their job that's so wicked that's not the most fab well it was live and done and it was very very sad for them but one of our crew the sound guy Sam this flight was so over packed you know full of so he didn't want to sit next to anyone and we told him if he took off his trousers because it was unallocated seating that no one would sit next to him but then he took his trousers off why did he do that?

28:20I don't know is that Miss Moody talking? no it's Miss Moody but it just made us laugh so much because we were on a different road to him he was by himself and you know that thing where the doors were about to shut and then people get on and the only seat they had was next to him and he was in his pants so everyone was crying but we were laughing that is so mean so you made it to Copenhagen? yes and where did you eat? we had a tie one of those incredible noodley you know coconut base with sort of lime grass and things in a noodle soup, that's my favourite food laksa laksa, yeah I wish I'd known that, I could have done you one I would say that is, yeah, oh god that's the best is there a place you order that from?

29:03I don't think you can get good enough ones I guess banana tree do one but no, I think you have to make that at home really so your husband would be in charge of the meal if we were coming over now do you like drinking? do you drink? yeah I do like drinking and it's just creeping earlier and earlier into the day now because I've got young children it used to be like it's five o 'clock somewhere and now it's like it's three o 'clock somewhere what's your drink of choice? at the moment my life's a champagne I'm just drinking champagne by myself out of a mug I'm with you while I'm waiting for bath time it's the bottle so open you might as well I've realised that yeah if you're sort of by yourself and you don't have a social life obviously I don't drink if I go out to work I can't do stand up after a glass of wine but at home have some wine in a mug my husband will drink red wine and I like champagne do you have champagne on your rider so you have like infinite amounts of No, no, no.

30:08I've been buying it because I don't spend my money on anything. So I've started adding them to the Ocado delivery. What's your champagne of choice? Whatever's got an offer on. Oh, right, yeah. You want some champagne now? No, no, I just feel like I've admitted some real dirty secrets about my life. Do you want champagne now? No, I don't. I don't. I really don't. Do you need a mug now? No. All the drudgery in childcare, I think it's coming out in odd ways. So my splurges are food or drink related. because we don't go out. Okay, so last supper, you are going off to a desert island. You will be able to sleep there, but you will have none of your comforts and your favourite food.

30:48So you've got starter main, pud and drink of choice. Right, okie dokie. So you're just making yourself the stuff that you like, right? You don't have to make it. It can be all delivery. Okay. I'd like a sweet potato salad with cannellini beans that my husband makes. It's really lovely. Yeah, and you can do it with or without feta cheese. Some black calamari olives on there. It's really, and it's really, you know when a salad is really filling? What's the dressing on it? Just oil and... Yeah, probably balsamic and olive oil. Very classic. Oh, my favourite food is soup, which is, I know, a boring thing, but I just love, I love soup.

31:31I love like a homemade minestrone with all the leftover vegetables. Do you ever make it yourself? Yeah, that would be my favourite thing to cook at home. Have you got any tricks for your minestrone? Yes, thank you for asking. A couple of Christmases ago, I bought my agent a cooking course and then I decided I wanted to go on to it and it was Italian basic cooking. So the whole point with a soup is don't chop the small stuff at the beginning. You have to mince it really tiny. So with the olive oil, you need to mince your... This is what the Italians would do. your carrot, celery, brown onions and garlic.

32:04You mince them all and then put them in cold oil and heat the oil. And then your soup will have a texture to it. It won't be really, really runny. Right, okay. And that's what you put in as the basis of the soup. And then it doesn't matter what else you put in, but you would put mushrooms and tomatoes and things like that. But there shouldn't be chunks of those things. Minced, you just get all of the flavour from it. And making your own stock as you go with all of the cast-off bits, which you always think would be a hassle but it's not. Do you always have a bit of veg stock that's kind of like...

32:35Oh no, I never keep it. I just make it as I'm making the minestrone. So it's not days old or anything. Oh, that's a really clever idea. You can still put a stock cube in there but just all of the outsides of the onions, the garlics, and all the old vegetables in your fridge in a stock taste incredible. I'm going to start doing that. Yeah. Do you put pasta in your minestrone? Sometimes, but lots of beans I'd put in. I put in two cans of cannellini beans and some butter beans and do you put the rind of parmesan in? no, because parmesan comes from cow stomachs oh of course, sorry, okay but I'm not telling you off for doing it there's parmesan in this I'm now freaking out you mustn't freak out, it's such a tiny bit you mustn't freak out, please don't freak out are you sure?

33:18I'm not freaked out did we not get the brief? they said you were vegetarian yes, they were right to say no did they say no cow's mouth? Fuck. No, no. Are you about to throw? No, no, no, no, no. Okay, fine. It's not cow... This is me telling you the distinction. Okay. But it's not. So, parmesan isn't vegetarian because it's from cow's stomachs, so it's meat. What would be counted as meat. I'm telling you that in case you have other guests, but that's not... I don't have a problem and this is delicious. Oh, my God. Do you need cow's stomach? So, they take the lining, rennet, to make cheese. Are you fair?

33:51Yeah. Some really good cheeses that people like, so that's why. so it's not a dairy product where the cow stays alive that's the distinction so I basically could have made this bag both no no no it's a tiny little bit of parmesan on a thing that's going to be there anyway okay do you like parmesan? it tastes lovely

34:19I won't be offended if you don't want to eat it eat the salad I am eating it and it's delicious and as I say yeah it's all been very vegan-ish for me for a couple of years um pudding are you a big produce person? um I'd just say some of Carrie had some incredible pavlova that sounds so nice I feel like you need to try it now yeah I definitely will I bet you I've had it and she'll be angry with me for forgetting yeah ice cream chocolate this is the trouble with having small children you just eat what they've left on the plate or dropped on the floor you just end up going like no no no don't give me one because I'm going to eat what he spits out I know the thing with me is I have theirs and then I have my own helping too good okay yeah so we have pudding for you yeah it's key lime pie lovely yeah sounds lovely yeah really great condensed milk doesn't have any no it's all going to be fine okay would you like a tea or a coffee no I'm all good with water thank you thank you what's a really nostalgic taste from your B &H

35:27is it the gold pack or the lights you're just walking down the street and you just get a that is a full strength cigarette when did you smoke when I met Cariad Cariad and I smoked out of a window for many years when did you start I started at the Millennium Dome when I was 18 Millennium Dome celebrating the Millennium No, I worked there. It was my first job when I was 18. In the body works? Was it when it was the exhibition? Yeah, back in the day. I thought it would never close because it was so brilliant. I couldn't believe people said it was only for a year. And I was like, no way. Did you love it?

36:05We went, didn't we? Did we see the body works? We went to the body works. I don't really remember the other bits of it, but everyone was like, oh no. Did you see the show in the middle? Possibly. Probably. We've seen one show there once. What? Prince. No, I've seen it. But did you, so, what do you see? What did you used to eat when you were at the Millennium Dome? Millennium Dome. What did I eat? Did you bring back lunch? No, I feel like I definitely had no money. That would have been in the days where I'd have had a mashed potato pot that you poured hot water into from the kettle. Like a... What, like smash?

36:41Smash, yeah. I think you've really had slim pickings as a student. I don't think you understand that budgeting a pound for your lunch kind of thing. no they definitely had food in the millennium dome they had a covent garden soup company i like soup yeah but no i i i would i would have survived on cuppa soups and smash yeah for many years millennium dome so you just have a benson and hedges just get you through the day smash when did they stop allowed smoking inside the millennium dome i don't think you would add inside but it's right on the river thames which is a lovely place to smoke they'll be looking for a nice view you've got to smoke next to the Thames looking at the river going one day I'm going to be someone were you writing comedy then?

37:27no but I was I was doing character work which basically meant they gave you a costume you got to improvise with members of the public and so I really felt at 18 like oh my god this is going to happen I'm going to do this I'm going to be an EastEnders that wasn't one of my lofty ambitions to be in these standards just to act but definitely so the characters in the Millennium Dome was it kind of like going to like London Dungeon that kind of thing but I would say probably maybe quality wise not even as good as London Dungeons because we were kids I mean this is what's incredible about that job right Millennium Dome I didn't know what it was it had people from all over the world all suddenly employed in one place and for the people who were like doing acting we worked hour on hour off and that means that you got paid for half of a shift you didn't work you just sat around smoking and chatting and reading magazines, it was just brilliant and then you had these costume cupboards where you just went in and you got given your roles for the day like you had a rota and you're like okay I'm money man this morning then I'm girl in Orchard this afternoon or I'm an alien and then you just decided what it was I had an old lady character who just walked around telling people she was lost it was just like that you're just making things up, you're just being silly it was silly do you want to help yourself?

38:48because you'll know how much you want or do you want me to you ready for a bit of a slice alright, ok, are you a generous slicer? no, I don't know that's not generous no, more hold on, I think you should start with that

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40:20do you have something in your back pocket if things aren't going well on one of your stand-ups and you think i'll have to bring this forest joke out yeah yeah or uh yeah some joke that you know is always going to make people laugh. What you should have is a toolkit where you get more used to the fact that the different ways that things can go wrong and how to deal with them. But I've found that the only thing that makes you go really wrong is pretending something that's happening in the room isn't happening. So you just have to be with what's going on. So for instance, let's say it's the nightmare.

40:53You start your set and it's silent. I do think you then have to address the silence in a way where you aren't scared of it. because you know you're not any less worthy so like how would you address the silence then would you be like honestly I would say look you know the thing with making jokes is it's a lot like sex in that it's more embarrassing to stop than it is to just carry on going pretending that the other person's enjoying it and then I say and I say but this is just awful shall we stop, shall we do something else because that's what you should say if you're in bed with someone Rather than both doing your best moves, this work with the last person, why aren't they going for it?

41:33So I use that analogy, and I pretend we should just put on a Lee Evans DVD or something. And then usually what you would do is try and talk to them. To hecklers, if you had a shocker ever. Shockers, mostly, again, the rule should be that a heckler is an open door. If it's too much about you, because it's so different to like having like i've got to sing this song right you know i don't have an audience who've come to hear they don't know what i'm gonna say it's not like you know they've bought an album they're thinking oh when they're gonna play that one they don't know what i'm gonna say at all so someone heckles you it's a door opens you go through it and so it all has to be about the only problems are if they're too drunk you can't hear them yeah because you think that the worst nightmare would be someone saying you're not funny but it's only a nightmare if you're scared of that it's so much more you really do have to sort of lean into that either they're right and you are normally funny but i'm not tonight what's going on and we investigate that together yeah or just more like that's a team we workshop it almost like an escape room slash one of those fantasy novels where it's like are you gonna do your adventure it is a bit like that it is a bit like that and that's it's a live performance and it only happens then and the audience they just have to know that you're not scared like that you're fearless that this is the show the show is whatever happens now and it could be nothing that I thought was going to happen or it could be everything and and usually those things they warm everyone up you get to know each other and then the rest of the show is just it just falls out of you this different rhythm have you felt the need for that like it's adrenaline right it's kind of a junkie like it's yeah this need for this kind of mad sense of fight or flight or whatever do you feel like you need it even more like you need that Nespresso in the morning at the moment since having children or do you think that actually you're like you know what maybe this could just go quite kind of like everyone I know who's had children all the women I know who do comedy had children got better and I watched them and I thought this is something incredible is happening on but because it made comedy less important it made them better at it because comedy isn't important it is throw away it's inconsequential don't ever think it and all of them got better and I have a similar version of that where I feel much better on stage at the moment because when it's over it's done and I'm not thinking about it anymore I'm literally thinking about getting home for a feed what we're doing tomorrow what's prepared the drudgery yeah and there's something I'm having my son might take a bottle which is really hard and um it means that just before I go to a gig at the moment I'm literally doing his last feed hoping he will last until I get home and not just otherwise I get texts at work saying that he's screaming and there's something about like literally being in the dark with no almost no clothes on no makeup not ready feeding my child there's something so earthy about it that I go to my gig and I'm not having this big like oh my god I hope it's okay so I just go on and then it's happening and there's something quite healthy about that as a new state a bit like if you're you've got jet lag or something you know you just have an altered state and you suddenly go like oh wow I was plugged into something else I totally get that feeling and that I think, yeah, you're on to the next thing.

44:48There's no wasted headspace. There's no headspace to waste, so it isn't. And then also what I feel is incredibly grateful for my job because sometimes I get to go out and do something. The other day, someone cancelled letters live and so they asked me if I wanted to do it. So I literally went, I said to them, I can't get for the first half because I have to do, you know, we've got this double bedtime. So I got into it. They were both horrible. I got into the cab at half eight, got to the Albert Hall at nine o 'clock, went on at quarter past nine. I was on with Harriet Walter, reading a letter with her, after Benedict Cumberbatch, I had a little flirt with Damien Lewis, went home.

45:24And I was like, I wish I could say to my babies, mummy's okay. Mummy had a little mummy night for mummy. I was cooking when you, I mean I was sorting food out when you were talking about Weirdo. Oh yeah. Is it your first novel? Yes, so I wrote two non-fiction books and then this is my first fiction. Do you feel writing a novel? I really, I'd always wanted to write a novel. And I always, when I was 14 and I planned my life, I had that I was going to, in my 40s, you know, start my... Who were you going to be married to? Oh, I hadn't planned. When you were 14. Probably take that, all of them at once.

46:03All of them at once, yeah, of course. Because I couldn't choose. And I would never have left Jason out or Howard, just not to be me. You couldn't be him out. No, it wouldn't be me. No, it's all on a thing. Polygamy from 14. Yeah. So I knew I wanted to write a novel and I knew I loved books. And then I obviously, like you, studied English. And I think there comes a point, because you know that there are so many brilliant books in the world. How arrogant to add one. And the weight of that. But yeah, I pitched it and then I wrote it as Theo was born. so I wrote it in my very early mum stage he was waking up in the night and I didn't realize I had a mania so I was I thought I didn't need to sleep anymore so I was getting up I've been told did you have postnatal kind of I just like a bit a mania just I just was so adrenalized I was really happy yeah and um I'd been told to pump to make more milk so I was feeding and then pumping so I was just like what's the point of going to bed for 20 minutes I'll write a novel and and so um so the beginning months of it that but it did mean I got lots of words out and I loved writing it it felt like being at primary school again like crayons and proper creativity and you just get to tell yourself a story and I had something that if I'd heard another writer saying it I think it's very pretentious but where the characters decide things for themselves you sort of you think up some things and then they start doing them by So you just facilitate that.

47:35Yeah, you're just typing it up, you know. And they fight against you sometimes. You know, you've done a plan where this is going to happen, and then they're like, no, I'm doing it over there. I just watched American fiction last night. Oh, we've started that. We're watching it in stages. And he starts the book, the bad book, and he starts with a title. Is that how it is? You start with a title and then work around it? When I was doing, with my non-fiction, I was doing an evening with Faber. they do these sort of author events where everyone reads five minutes from their books for their booksellers and I watched a novelist and I was really making fun of her because this is her speech she's so serious I had an image I had an image in my head and it was of a girl and she was on the courthouse steps and I thought what is she doing there and my novel was born bloody hell but it is a bit like that you're not that person No, I'm not that person, but you do have this...

48:31You kind of want to be that person at one point. Not with that voice. That's my... When I do my author readings, good evening. But I did have this image of a girl in a pub in Essex where I grew up and where when I had, you know, minimum wage jobs, I was very miserable because I thought I had this stuff to give to the world. And I think what happened to me is I was quite delusional. I had absolutely no one had told me I was good at anything and I was really sure that I was going to have a certain kind of life. And then through a variety of steps and mutations, a lot of those things have happened.

49:07And it's like this odd kind of... It makes reality really soft if that happens. It feels a bit like you're God, like you wished a thing to happen or that it's not real. But what I wanted to write was a character where she has exactly the same delusions but actually maybe it's not going to happen. so I just wanted to explore just that thing of your life not quite reflecting yet what you want who would play the part if it gets made into a television series? What I would love to do is actually to go into a pub in Essex because the whole thing is if you're working in a pub and you think someone's going to come in, especially because so many people are performers, they're waiting for a director to come in and go, it's you, you've got what you're looking for so I'd have to cast it like that like Willy Wonka, go on a ticket well you are invited go round the pubs of Brentwood looking for a girl going hey you can have lots of mugs and champagne that's it tax deductible I believe I'm casting my TV show Sarah Pascoe thank you so much for coming on it's such a pleasure to meet you and thank you for coming away from I know the precious time so yeah I know it's lovely it's so nice of you I'm worried about you how are you they get bigger when I go to yoga I finish yoga when they're bigger and I did my gym top than when I started

50:36Sarah Pascoe is very funny. She is very funny. The whole science behind comedy. I loved hearing her talk about comedy. She's very clever. She's really bright. She is a bit of an overachiever, let's be honest. she's just brilliant and I really appreciate that she took the time out she's got a five month old at home who won't take a bottle and she you could feel her clutching her breasts and knowing she's time to go yeah um and um I just fed a vegetarian beef stomach apparently so I'm really embarrassed and I apologize to Sarah because I actually feel really let down by all the fucking vegetarians we've had that either didn't know this vital information um or um chose not to share it because i've just given sarah something that she did not want to eat and she was so sweet it was like that thing where your kid hits somebody else in the park and somebody else's kid in the park and the mother says don't worry it's okay don't worry it's okay it was a bit like that like i've literally broken your kid's um arm and you're going don't worry is fine.

51:49She was so sweet to me and I now feel really guilty. Do you? No one has ever told us about this information. Not only have I learnt a lot about comedy I've learnt a lot about brennett in cheese and I'm now really regretting it. Sorry Sarah Pascoe I'm really sorry. You were so sweet. And gracious. And gracious. And gorgeous. She's very serene. That's the second serene comedian. Who's the other serene? Catherine Ryan was very serene. Both very serene, in control, I felt. Or just really tired. Do you think? They've both got very young children. Maybe just really tired. How many coffees had she had before she came on?

52:34I'm obsessed with the Nespresso before getting down. Like putting a hotel one. In the bedroom to get her downstairs. That's genius. Sarah Pascoe's book is out in paperback, Weirdo you can listen to her book Club podcast with Carrie Adloy you can probably see her in Soho or somewhere in London on any Friday or Saturday she seems to just live for it should we go to a comedy night? yes thanks for listening be with you next week

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