Second Helpings - Emerald Fennell

0:00Lennie Ware: Hi, Mum. Where are you? Darling, I'm on your favourite beach. Oh, lovely. You're in Greece. Mum, I have news for you. What, darling? We are down to the last 20 in the British Podcast Awards Listener's Choice Award. Wow. If you want to vote for us to win Best Podcast for the Listener's Choice Award at the British Podcast Awards this year, you vote on Spotify. Thank you so much to everyone that has voted already. You've got us very, very far and we're really thrilled. And I will let you get back to your holiday now, Mum. Thank you. I'm having a lovely time. Just about to go in the sea, darling, with my rubber ring.

0:34Lennie Ware: Amazing. Bye, darling. Bye. See you soon. At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect. helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Boar's Head, committed to craft since 1905. Summer's supposed to be the easy season. So why are so many people quietly Googling a therapist between summer Fridays? Because more daylight doesn't fix the hard stuff. Sometimes it just turns the volume up. Grow does therapy differently.

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3:14Lennie Ware: Hello and welcome to Second Helpings. This week we have director and writer the phenomenal Emerald Fennell coming round to Lenny's for Tarragon Chicken and Banana Ice Cream. It was when Promising Young Woman, which starred Carey Mulligan, it'd just come out and it's such a great film. She is such an interesting director and people love working with her. Of course, she directed Wuthering Heights and Saltburn. She's a fantastic female director. She talked about her time in Call the Midwife playing Patsy. She was pregnant at the time. Were you pregnant at that time? as well. Yeah, we must have both been pregnant because I was, it's July 2021 and that's when my son was born.

3:57Lennie Ware: Classic me, working till the edge. No maternity leave for me. Here is Emeril Fennell on Second Helpings.

4:11Lennie Ware: You've come in as I expected you to, with the most beautiful, brilliant energy goddess-like, ready to pop. Thank you for being here. Thank you. We're going to race through this. We've got you for about an hour. And I know that we can go longer. And you've got to eat. I really do have to eat. Are you starving? I'm always starving. I'll give you in 20 minutes if you can eat. We'll just chat a bit. It smells so delicious. Is it spaghetti bolognese? No. Is that what you really wanted? No. Oh god I'm so sorry. Tarzan chicken. That sounds delicious. No no that sounds amazing. I was just You thought you got a whiff of spag bol.

4:50I thought I got a whiff of spag bol and I was very excited, but actually, tarragon chicken sounds even better. Sorry, I've never given anyone spag bol. Spag bol was the thing that induced my,

4:58Lennie Ware: I feel like it was a great induction tool. I had it the night before I had Alex, hadn't you? I'm telling you, anybody who's a bit... Really? Yeah, it's a bit weird, that, isn't it? Do you have a little spag bol? A little spag bol. Well, maybe I'll have one a little bit closer to the time to bring it on. Yeah. So how are you? How is life post the most mental... Has this been the most mental year of your life? Yeah. And throw in the mix a baby too. Yeah, I think so. I mean, like, I actually feel like the last three years have been a sort of, and like people say a whirlwind, but I don't really know how else to describe it because I feel like I've been just not, you know, living, also especially because of COVID, like living my normal life with my lovely husband.

5:40We've been together forever, you know, at home. But then all this other stuff, you know, the work stuff has all just been going mad all around it. So yeah, I feel like after this baby, which is due in a couple of weeks, I'm going to take a couple of months off, which I didn't do for the last one. And it's been, yeah, I'm just, I can feel, it's that thing, I was trying to explain it to someone, it's a bit like when you've been on a really long car journey and you've needed the loo the whole time, but you've held it in and then you can see your front door and you're like, oh no, it's happening. It's that last moment.

6:18And so I think I'm, you know, I'm a couple of weeks away and then I can just fill my whole body. Yeah. Sort of the opposite. Oh no. Like a sort of staggering kind of to the, in the desert, sort of in rags, sort of sunburned. But so you're in rehearsals at the moment. So we're in, was that my phone? No, it's probably mum's. I'm so sorry if it was.

6:41Lennie Ware: No, no, it's mum's probably. Mine always goes off. So in rehearsals for Cinderella. So Cinderella. the longest wait you've ever had for, when was Cinderella supposed to come out, the musical so Cinderella the musical was supposed to come out oh my god, probably like a year ago at least I can't remember because we've changed it so much I feel so sorry for him it's been like, I just, do you know what it's everyone, the thing is and it's the same for you and your industry like any live entertainment but live theatre and in particular comedy, all that stuff it's just a disaster And for so many people as well, they fall between two stools of freelance or employed.

7:21And so they weren't able to get any help. It's just, yeah, and it's been kind of dispiriting. Of course, for everyone. Everyone struggled really badly, of course. So nobody's in a different boat. But I think it has been. the last few weeks have been quite tough because yeah because you just see so many other you know you see sports and things being everyone not being able to social distance and stuff like that and then and that's fair you know of course but and you want to be safe but it's really tough when it feels like there's there are different rules for different things yeah I think the rationale seems to be if it's outside it seems to be okay but if it's in indoors it seems not to be and when

8:07Lennie Ware: we spoke to Andrew he said it's all about ventilation he spent fortunes on the theatre to ventilate it and also everyone's masked everyone's facing forward nobody's talking you know there are lots and lots of safety I mean of course like we're in a pandemic so I do feel like and I'm naturally like a real law abider so like whatever I'm told to do I will just do it um that's if the rules are clear um sometimes yes I suppose so sometimes they haven't been as clear as they should be. Yeah, it's just like, it's just really complicated, isn't it? But I do feel really bad. Every time it gets moved, we have to tell people that their tickets are no longer, you know, it's that stuff.

8:51So has it opened yet? No. So we start previews on this Friday and then we open, well, you know, TBC. And it's still

9:01Lennie Ware: half full. So it'll be at 50 % for the next few weeks and then hopefully if it does open up on July 19th we will be opening at full capacity around that but you know but I don't yeah I sort of I've become quite because also with Promising a Woman that was supposed to come out in April of the Covid year in cinemas everywhere simultaneously and so and then obviously everything changed and so I kind of got used to that thing of everything getting pushed and pushed obviously a film is much easier much much easier to kind of contain or Promising Young Woman is one of the best films I've seen in so long.

9:40Lennie Ware: It's so important. I watched it yesterday. But for anybody who hasn't seen the film, can you just kind of... It's really hard to explain quickly, in a nutshell. Yeah, it's a real... Honestly, because I have spent a year trying to explain it in a nutshell and I'm almost the worst at it. But it is based... It is a film. It's called Promising Young Woman. It's got wonderful Carey Mulligan in it. And it is about a woman who goes to nightclubs and bars and pretends to be incredibly drunk and sees if anyone approaches her and takes her home. And the repercussions. And the kind of, yeah, and then the sort of fallout of what happens when they do.

10:18Lennie Ware: I was so disappointed when the boyfriend that I thought was... I know, Beau. Also like Beau Burnham, the most dreamy, lovely, perfect kind of person. So it was sort of like extra, it was extra cruel. But that's what you did with a lot of the guys in it. You know, you had Seth from the OC, first opening scene. You're like, oh, Seth, you welcome him with open arms. And he's a wrong one. And that was an intention, wasn't it? That you used these kind of familiar, warm, funny men you would actually want to sleep with. You know, the thing is, is that all of the whole thing about Pregnancy and a Woman for me certainly was like, it's just endemic.

10:59There's stuff in this film. There's nothing in this film. that wasn't in a comedy film, like, you know, to be laughed at, like, five years ago, or big, like, comedy TV series would have jokes about, like, drunk, taking drunk all the time. Yeah, The Hangover. Something like that. But even more, like, mainstream kind of stuff, it's, when you look back, it's sort of, you don't need to look very far back, and so it was really important for me to be like, okay, well, what we're talking about here is something that feels really icky because it's very close to home. And it is, you know, it is a lot of men and boys and women who kind of, you know, cover up for it or sort of apologise for it.

11:45It's your friends. It's your friends. It's people at parties. It's your friends' boyfriends. It's people you were at school with who were really nice and who just like, you know, it was not treated seriously if something happened to a girl at a party it was not it was a whoopsie that they were expected to make a joke of otherwise it was kind of on them um so emerald you are

12:16Lennie Ware: pregnant you are doing cinder other the musical you're going to rehearsals now um i want to know how you are fueling this pregnancy and how has the pregnancy been and are you eating well what are you enjoying um I'm eating so badly I don't understand the thing is the worst thing that happened with my first pregnancy was I had a very wonderful and very sort of like chilled doctor and she was like the great thing is is you can eat anything the baby will just take the nutrients away from you so you just and so I was on a kind of diet of like solid milkshakes I was like nearly like four milkshakes a day by the end um yeah no I'm really bad I'm really bad I'm bad at that stuff because for me I mean food at the best of times is just so wonderful and you as a woman I still think well I mean certainly for me there's always quite a complicated relationship with the kind of food you want to eat i.e cake and ice cream and burgers and so being pregnant is sort of slightly naughty get out of jail free card so so yeah so i've just been i mean and also because so busy it's like it's deliveroo on it's like don't look at the deliveroo money that has been spent in the last two months who's doing the cooking in your house i at the moment my husband completely um what does your husband do he works in advertising okay yeah so he doesn't have much time then well I but but we're lucky you know we have help with our with our toddler um a lovely nanny and yeah there's I mean weekends and stuff we try and cook and I love cooking I just have completely lapsed I just it's just at the end of the day I just can't I mean I just I'm just like crawl I just will crawl into bed basically and just eat whatever's nearby and what was growing up who was around the dinner table and who was doing the cooking what were you eating so growing up it was my mum and dad uh my sister Coco my younger sister Coco and mum I think mum's probably one of those 70s girls who just like she ran away from her home in rural Wales at 16 to go and kind of work in a clothes shop on the King's Road she was like get me to wear those like snakeskin boots are getting me to wear the rock and rollers and so and she just was like uh very much her she always said her cookery style was pierced film lid so it was all it was just i the thing i remember most and i should say like my mother is a wonderful cook and she cooks a lot now but when we were little it was it was absolutely chicken kiev m &s did a really great carbonara in a sort of in a inner sort of thing that you pierce the film lid and yeah it was kind of all of that stuff but we were quite we we weren't did you live in london we lived in london on the king's road half the time yeah no we lived in like we lived in kind of fulham earl's court area and um but but half the time we were in herefordshire which is where i kind of think of mostly when i think of uh of growing up and and when we were there was it was always the best because on the way in on Friday we'd stop at the fish and chip shop and get fish and chips in the car and on the way back on Sunday if we were lucky and we'd been good we'd hit the McDonald's on the Isles Court road dad would go in and buy much too much too much and then and so it was always kind of framed by as you can tell very healthy the haute cuisine that we all grew up with.

16:01So your dad was a jewellery designer? So dad's a jewellery designer, my mum was a, for a long time she was a photographer's agent and now she's a writer, she writes lots of very brilliant kind of dark sort of dark comedy books with quite a lot of sex in them. Oh crikey, what's her

16:18Lennie Ware: nom de plume? No, her nom de plume is her, is her nom which is Louise Fennell and so she yeah so she's really amazing and so she yeah when we grew up she started writing you know when she finally had the time I think it's such a there are so many female writers that you look at them and they started when their children have grown up yeah when did you start writing because I was acting because I was doing Call the Midwife and then we had a hiatus so half time it's Call the Midwife and then half time you have six months off and so I wrote books in the the hiatus because I loved it and I really always wanted to write films and telly and things but you know it's very difficult thing to like get into and the first thing I wrote was a very long book that was truly terrible like a real a real nonsense and it was like an epically long bajillion words and I and I took it to a few publishing houses and they were like this is just really really dire actually and they were right but but I'd written a sort of tv script for something called shiverton hall which was the sort of doctor who type thing because I love sci-fi and all of that and and so I pitched that as a book and then bloomsbury very kindly gave me a shot to write that and then yeah it was just I was lovely I don't know that I could weirdly I don't know that I could write a book now I think I just don't know how I honestly look back I just don't know how it was possible.

17:43Maybe it was having a baby.

17:45Lennie Ware: You wrote the script for Promising Young Woman or the screenplay. Yeah, both. The screenplay and the script, yeah. But was it based on a book? No. It wasn't based on anything. So it's all from you? Yeah, yeah. So I think, but now the idea of writing a book is because it's so hard. I think I just don't know. It's so crazy. I've also got a very bad memory for my life. so I look at the books and I just it feels like it just feels like magic that they appeared somehow because I can't remember I love that you're like oh it's so daunting but yeah you are you're doing everything yeah now do you think you'll act some more I don't know I think I mean I love acting I really love it and there are some things like I mean the crown you were so good fabulous oh thank you oh god is that are you doing are you in the next series of the crown It's a completely new cast for the next series.

18:43Lennie Ware: Oh, who's... So, don't know, don't know. Yeah, don't know yet who Camilla will be. Really interesting. So how old is Camilla in the next bit? I don't know. I don't even know the time period that they're doing. Because... Maybe, you know, maybe it's been announced. There must be the death of Diana. I don't know. You don't know. Because, well, I know that Elizabeth Debicki, they announced Elizabeth Debicki who's playing Diana. Oh, yes, it is. So it must be, there must be some... she's quite young isn't she yeah she's pretty young Diana was very young I just was looking it up the other day she was like 36 I know which of course when we were so young when it happened she seemed like a grown up but 36 just nothing it's so young but I don't know who the next people are I'm fascinated also like I'm really excited because I was such a big fan of the show and then when you're in something it's just much more frightening to watch it because you sometimes you just never know when you're going to come on so you're just enjoying like josh o 'connor's lovely performance and suddenly your like face looms into view and you're like no fast forward so it now it'll be it'll be very nice to be able to watch it without that kind of fear so so is when we had sir andrew lloyd weber on he kind of said that the way that cinderella started was you're at a dinner party at his house or something or with Randa Dintem because you're family friends.

20:07It makes my life sound very, very much more highfalutin than it is.

20:12Lennie Ware: It sounds fabulous. Yeah. And he, I don't know, the conversation went something like, I want to do this. And you said, give me a pop at it. I'll do it. And he said, yeah, yeah. And it was a bit of on a whim. Was that the first thing? Kind of. And you're like, come on, Andrew. I had already a deal with a... No, I think that, again, you're like talking to an amnesiac this is the thing that's really like weird that I always find terrible about kind of talking about stuff is I just have such bad memory that even remembering basic facts about my life is very difficult but from what I remember Andrew has been obsessed with writing Cinderella for years because of the Rogers, he's a big Rogers and Hammerstein fan and they did one and I think, and he likes doing stuff when you think of when you think of this like back catalogue it's such a rich and unusual we take things like cats or like jesus christ superstar for granted but the idea of doing a rock musical based on like a bible story is quite out there and then you know and then a kind of dance show about cats and you know just like i think he is like sort of naturally inclined to try things that seem if not impossible difficult or he was smoking the wacky bucky i've never thought about it no maybe maybe he doesn't i mean i look i don't i don't know i don't know anyway but um but definitely it is like kind of because i think when things become hugely successful and part of our culture we forget that often they start as things that aren't very mainstream that are kind of unusual and so i think the thing with cinderella that he was interested in is like if something and what interested me as well it's like how can you what's what why I suppose why and so when he was talking about it and he was talking about kind of a way of doing it the first conversation we had which was I think at that dinner is I said something like the problem with Cinderella is that it is it hinges on the idea that you have to the woman has to change herself to make herself appealing and so if you do it that needs to be interrogated that needs to be the thing that okay you've got to keep it but you've got to like ask why and you know what that says about us and about fairy tales and it was always important to me that we as an audience are kind of complicit in, this makes it sound very dour, I should say it's a romp with a lot of mail stripping but yes get your tickets, everyone get your tickets It's family friendly, don't worry.

22:53But I think the thing is, is that we still, as an audience, want to see the makeover. No matter how much we love a character, no matter how much we respect them, there is something about us where we want to see women be sort of physically improved. And so that kind of was the idea that it all kind of grew out of. And that was the conversation that we had really in the beginning. I just said I'd kind of want to see if it was possible to have all the pleasures of Cinderella, have all those story beats, the shoe and the ball and the midnight and all that stuff, but also make it feel like something I would care about, something that I would, a character that I would identify with who wasn't just a kind of sad, beautiful cypher in a sexy, ragged dress.

23:44Yeah.

23:45Lennie Ware: And were you involved at all with the music? I mean in the sense of like did you get a say in the music? No I mean I wouldn't I mean You just wouldn't step on Well David Zippel who's the amazing lyricist and Andrew we did it all together so the thing that was really exciting for me having never collaborated on anything like this was that we sit in a room and we talk about stuff and then you know David and I will have a big conversation about what the song needs to say and then Andrew will, you know, just being in a room with someone like Andrew and he's like, oh yeah, what if it's something like this?

24:21And he just starts playing the piano and you're just like, what? How? It's so completely, I mean, obviously it's like the thing that you do, but it's beyond... No, but I don't play piano. It's beyond my comprehension, the kind of musical ability. And also with Andrew, he's got a completely photographic, or maybe photographic, phonographic? I don't know what the right word would be. he can remember every piece of music he ever thought of so like not just things that have been not just things that are published you know he has like he has an orchestra in his head and he has a memory of a little piece of music that was nearly right for something but you know from 35 years ago that then might it's just it's exciting to see somebody work like that whose brain works just in a completely different way and David Zippel's the same way because like lyrics I suppose I've never really stupidly sort of thought about lyrics before in quite a stupid way

25:19Lennie Ware: like I know the ones that I really respond to do you think you take a song more on the basis of the melody before the lyrics I think so even though you're a writer I think so also because I well if the amount I get lyrics wrong like whenever I'm on karaoke and the words come up I'm like that is not what I thought the words to this song well that leads nicely into mum's question for you What was my question? It's usually what we ask at the end. Oh, gosh. Do you like karaoke? Oh, no. Is this a trick question? No. No. I love it. I hate it. So if I was to have a birthday party this year, which seems unlikely, but if I was, I'd definitely have a karaoke corner.

26:01I mean, we have our own karaoke machine at home. Oh, you do like karaoke. Oh, you see. Me and my husband, before we had a child, we would often just have karaoke for two to cheer ourselves up. Jessie! Wow.

26:15Lennie Ware: What a girl. Would you do duets or would you do battles? Occasionally. Battles, duets. You know, I think our poor friends, we've whittled up, we've not whittled them down. The friends that love it, we will always separate. We would never torment you. I want to go to an Emerald Fennel karaoke dude. now is it a thing is it like no no because that makes it sound like it's more sort of fun that so like i think probably our poor friends just suffer it but we definitely do like usually every year before this year we would do eurovision and karaoke and so everyone will come to eurovision we do the full thing the scoring has made eurovision very difficult now because the scoring takes too long yeah yeah so i've got a lot of thoughts about you have to get very drunk and that's a hard year this year how was this year for you did you watch it this year was sensational it's one of the best years did you watch it yeah i didn't a bit but i do like um eurovision i i really it's one of the well and also because if you do the kind of eurovision drinking games every time there's key change every time there's costume change uh every time somebody gets down on their knees winks at the camera you know it's like all of those people you know not anymore because we're all so old but like people just crawl out of my life somebody once lost a tooth they called the next day and said if anyone found my tooth i was so proud because honestly i'm really quite square so just the idea that anyone would have lost what were you drinking they i don't drink but they were drinking aftershock oh oh yeah oh people drink on park benches yes yeah okay big time well because what happened was is all the booze got finished and you only had aftershocks and then there was an offie over the road and my husband went over the road and came back with some classic 90s sort of bench fare and then everyone just lost their minds and lost teeth would you ever like so which song would you sing there's quite a wide category I definitely overreach every time.

28:25So I'm not very talented at all. Are you a rock chick? It's Celine Dion. So it would be Body Tyler, Total Eclipse of the Heart. Oh yeah. Classic. Then it would be Think Twice. Do you don't wish a wash? You know, Celine. Yeah, I don't think I can feel. Yeah, it's a little bit. It's actually quite good but there's a key change in there that I absolutely can't reach. I mean, not many people can. That's why she's Celine Dion. That is true and then what else was we always end as tradition with danny boy and everyone cries about five in the morning i should say that there's no name there are no Irish in your family i don't even know where it came from this sounds so fun no it's not it's really nightmarish you'd hate it you'd hate it even i acknowledge that it's unbearable but i love it

29:17Lennie Ware: so much i want to know because you know i think we've got graham norton now for the the voiceover for Eurovision and he's fantastic. Terry Wogan was amazing. Yeah. Maybe you're the next person that should be lined up. You've got such a beautiful voice. Thank you. It would be my dream job. Really? I have, I think I've watched every single one since I can remember. Like I, I love, I love everything about it. I genuinely, and not ironically as well. It's not a sort of ironic like kitsch. I genuinely love it. I find it really heartening and fun and, and lovely. I mean, it's lovely. How did you feel about GB this year?

29:55I felt, well, do you know, I feel sad for anyone who gets nil poir. Because it's not a nice place to be. No. But, you know, we've really screwed the pooch. Euro-wise in the last few years. Do you think it was a punishment?

30:13Lennie Ware: I don't think it's a punishment. To be honest, we've got nil poir quite a lot the last few years. Yeah, but they really went for poor James. And James, actually, I've written songs with him before. he's so brilliant and he's so lovely and he was so modest and I loved his song and he was great I think I think that we just got to separate the judging from the show that the show itself is just magical and they're all winners

30:45I'm Serena Williams and I'm healthier on Roe I've lost 34 pounds in a year with GLP-1's diet and exercise. On Rho, you can access GLP-1 options, including the first FDA-approved GLP-1 pill for weight loss. Go to roe.co slash journey to see if you qualify. 14 to 20 % average weight loss in one year in non-diabetics with obesity or overweight with a weight-related medical condition versus 2.2 % to 3.1 % in placebo R. RX only. To stay informed about serious side effects, go to roe.co slash safety. At Boar's Head, we've been going back to school for over 115 years. And this year, every school lunch is reason to celebrate with the flavors your kids love and the exceptional quality you expect.

31:31Helping you make school lunch fresh, easy, and delicious. Ring the bell. The deli is open. Orzette. Committed to craft since 1905.

32:10the tap all on the app. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today. Do you keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example, but always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're Acast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget, and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at acast.com slash advertise.

32:56Lennie Ware: So have you been enjoying restaurants at all? Or is it strictly delivery at the moment? Because obviously you're in, you know, theater land at the moment. Are you in this theater at the moment doing rehearsals. So have you been going out for dins or no? Sadly not because our schedule is sort of two till ten. Oy vey, that's hard for a very pregnant person. It is quite hard for a pregnant person. So actually, really, it's your Pretz and your Ritzus for lunch, I'm afraid to say. Which I love. Of course, they're the best. They're the best for a reason. What's your order at Pretz? Oh, okay, well, it will depend on the time of day but obviously the posh cheddar and pickle.

33:36It's so good, the baguette. It's so good. And it's by far the most calories. That's why it's so good. What would you go for?

33:44Lennie Ware: I like the Italian chicken salad. Oh! It's very nice. La-dee-da with the olives, pitched olives. Yeah, yeah. It's good. It's great. Look, it's because I'm constantly on a diet. But I like the soups. The soups are fine. It depends which day. Yes, absolutely. And I kind of wish they'd just lay off the tomato soup every day. A thousand percent. mushroom and rice absolutely lovely chicken laxer was pretty good for a while but nobody wants a tomato have you ever got a free coffee at Pratt this is the thing have you heard about this thing not only have I heard about it my friend Jess Knappett who is an amazing comedian and we worked together for many years writing together every single time we go to a Pratt together she gets free coffee what's she doing that you're not doing I mean, I...

34:34Lennie Ware: And is that a mask as well? Okay, I have not seen it. I've not been witness to a masked free coffee. But I couldn't believe... Like, it became a sort of, like... I actually was starting to get quite resentful. Because also then I would become much, much needier. And these are, like, assorted pretz over London. This isn't one guy who's got a crush. She just... Is she gorgeous? She's gorgeous. Well, so is Emerald. well what's she fucking doing she's really no she is gorgeous she's charismatic there are a million reasons why I would give her a free coffee but at the same time it's like it's like a magic trick and you say what's wrong with me and I'm there kind of like I'm pulling my top down I'm really kind of leaning in to get some action nothing they're repulsed by my my sheer naked need to be given a free coffee they can smell it on me I think the thing with Jess is she's cool she doesn't need it she doesn't need it so they just give it to her I haven't made the plates hot it's okay mum Jessie thank you before mum plates up what would be your last supper?

35:48Lennie Ware: oh my god starter, main, put, drink, choice oh I get everything yeah okay then for starter to be really posh arsehole I would have oysters from where? There's many, Malvern Oyster Cut, which is, it's just like lots of food. They're just like, I think, Essex oysters. And it's just amazing, just with lots of shallots and red wine vinegar. As many as I could cram in. So how many is the most? I'm just going to put this over here. Okay, Mum. This looks so good. How many have you crammed in on a night? I would say, I'm a daytime, a daytime oyster person. Okay, fine. Only because I want to be near home in case something goes on.

36:31Never has, touch wood. But I still, I think part of what I like about it is the danger of it. Yeah, okay. Of being food poisoning. So good.

36:39Lennie Ware: Can I help you? Oh my God. Would you have an oyster whilst you're pregnant? Thank you so much. No, I wouldn't. Do you know what? I'm pretty, oh God. Do you want me to, I can do it if it's easier. Can you? Yeah, yeah, of course. Sorry, I didn't want to. No, no. No, I think I can probably do it. That's just a bit slippery sucker, isn't it? Oh my goodness, this is so delicious. This is the kind of thing I wish I could cook. Oh, this is. It's like proper cooking. I'm just saying, oh, this is really easy. No, I'm kidding. It's all dark. Thank you so much. Do you not want any more? No. I might do some.

37:07Lennie Ware: If you want some sauce on the potatoes, do that. Right, so oysters are the starter. Oysters to start with. Yeah. I'm going to have a Coke, full fat Coke, pint in a pint glass with lots of ice. And then for a main course, my mum's macaroni cheese. Oh, what makes it so good? just I think the mum factor she's got bacon she adds bacon and she adds tomatoes yes my grandma used to do sliced tomatoes on the top and they go really sweet yes and it's kind of like it's the best of all worlds because it's sort of like a pizza as well as not to bring it back to Pret, don't Pret put tomatoes on the top of theirs or am I making that up I don't have you ever had the Pret?

37:54I've had the Pret one, but I had the depressing kale Pret one that's kidding myself. I'm like, oh yeah.

38:02Lennie Ware: We've all done it. They do one that's like slightly, like marginally 20 fewer calories that makes you feel like you're not. And you try and give it to your children and then you go, what's mac and cheese? Yeah, and they're like, absolutely nice try, mum. So your mum's mac and cheese. Mum's mac and cheese. And then for pudding. Oh my God. it's so hard how can you how can you choose one pudding is that the thing that you love I think I would go bread and butter pudding feels like a lot of carbs and custardy things lovely do you make a good one ice cream sundae I'm just going to go ice cream sundae with a variety of toppings that I can add sounds great I think that's basically a child's I want to know how did you meet your husband?

38:55Lennie Ware: because you said you've been together for a long time yeah so we met we met it's just so cringe there's no way around it I was on my gap yard in Paris learning French because it's very shaming you weren't drinking buckets on you know, Côte Panniers no, that's true and he was on his year abroad and he'd done French that yeah we just met and we were yeah we were kids we were teenagers that was that and and so you must have had so many romantic Paris falling in love in Paris I suppose it was romantic but at the time we didn't we didn't like each other we met it was like a bad rom-com we really didn't like each other we argued we had mutual friends in common and we argued a lot a lot a lot but in quite an unpleasant way.

39:46And I never argue with anyone, ever, nor does he, really. And it was, you know, so again, it literally was just like a D-list kind of rom-com. Sounds like my kind of film. It was, yeah, I mean, it's definitely a film. Would you make this film? Oh, no, no, no. I don't think so. There's not, there are no stakes. The characters are too unlikable.

40:09Lennie Ware: Where was Promising Young Woman shot? In LA. I love that little house not where her mother lived but where Nina's mother, I love that little wooden house where was that in LA? because we had to shoot, we shot in LA because I was very pregnant and couldn't fly anywhere so we shot in LA but we had to shoot it for like any American town it was quite hard because LA is so idiosyncratic. It didn't seem like LA good. It seemed like a small town yeah so that was in just a kind of weird desolate there was this kind of place outside LA that's just an old um town that's sort of run down and we kind of yeah we shot a lot of the stuff there um yeah I mean it's all of that stuff that American kind of so you were heavily pregnant directing your that was your first direct job yeah yeah yeah of a yeah the feature I'd done like short films before but yeah and so and I gave birth three weeks later wow yeah so it was quite it was quite full on did it change the way that you directed do you think at all that's a very masculine thing for me to say I wonder whether I don't know sorry no no no because it's a subject matter it's a fair question I think I think honestly I don't have a frame of reference so if I'm allowed to do it again then I think I'll know better what I think it did do which I'm sure you feel and I'm sure lots of women will identify with is I didn't have time I felt I was on the clock so it gave me more I think confidence to be straightforward, I'm naturally not very you know, if I deal with anything that's difficult I'm quite passive aggressive and British about it which is not helpful when you're on a clock and I think being so pregnant I could be a bit more like spicy a little bit more decisive as well.

42:03I think not so much decisive, but I hope that I am. Spicy, I like that. I hope that I'm decisive. It's more about communicating things because I think you, especially if you're a girl, especially if you're making your first film in a country you've never worked in before, my worry is that I would be too kind of like, oh yes, okay, maybe that's, oh, I hadn't thought about it that way. I mean, sort of quite the opposite. I was sort of like a sort of monstrous dictator, I think. But partly because, yeah. Because I was... You have to get it done. Yeah, and it was... They're 14-hour days. It's like 35 degrees, scorching heat.

42:40You're so pregnant. And it's so, like... It's the thing I've wanted to do my whole life. Like, desperately. I like to have the opportunity to get a film made, financed and made, in the way you want to do it, with the cast you, you know, could only dream of. It's just so, you know...

42:57Lennie Ware: But Emeril, they must be knocking the doors down. because it was so hugely acclaimed. You're nominated for Oscars. They must be saying, Emerald, come and direct this, come and do that, will you do this? Is that what happens? They're just... A little, yes, yes. I mean, yes, that is. See? But it's... Quite rightly. But it's kind of funny because, again, like those conversations I've had with other people, it's kind of like... It's a bit like falling in love. In theory, it's lovely. to have Tinder and lots of sexy men or women at your fingertips. But the truth of it is, is there are very few people that you fall in love with or even like, you know, that happens once in a blue moon.

43:41And I think the thing is about work is actually, I've been really lucky the last few years that I've fallen in love a few times with the project. But now I kind of know that even though things sound very appealing, you kind of know that they're not, you know, I'm sure it's exactly the same for you. So I think, yes, there are lots of amazing opportunities that I'm incredibly grateful for, but I also think I know more now what I want to do next, so I can be a bit more picky.

44:12Lennie Ware: So do you know, are you going to tell us what next? Are you allowed to? Have you got anything in development? Well, I've got, well, no, because the way that I'm working now is I just, I'm writing something that then will go out. So I won't sell anything before it's done, because I think that just makes it a lot easier. But what I am doing now, which is like in the world, is Zatanna, writing the script for Zatanna, which is a DC Warner Brothers superhero film, which is really fun. Oh, that's fun, yes. Really fun. Excuse me, I'm going to make... Jessie, right, I'm going to make some banana ice cream, which is only...

44:50Lennie Ware: Oh, my God. It's only frozen bananas, and I've had it, and Jessie says, oh, it's going to be terrible. What? I bet it's delicious. I think it's very easy. That sounds absolutely amazing. Thank you. Why do you just... I did banana ice cream for my kids to try and trick them that that was ice cream and I found it quite miserable. I'm willing to be... I'm willing to be... My mind to be changed. But like, I... Are you picky about... Because you've obviously grown up with a very, very good cook for a mother. Yeah. Does that make you more... do you think you're more critical about food no i very much when it when it comes to food it's quantity versus quality every time me too like i think i don't have yeah i'm telling you anyway but i but i definitely feel like with food i love it but i have very low standards like i am truly the happiest at mcdonald's or like a pizza express what's what's your order at pizza express Oh, Etna Romana used to be.

45:57They got rid of the Etna. It's absolutely devastating. What was the Etna? It was like a spicy, it was like a Diavola, but it had Ndu - I never know how to pronounce this. Ndu-sha, yeah, yeah. On it, in little dollops, so it was really salty. Now, now, because I'm pregnant, it's a margarita.

46:14Lennie Ware: Oh, really? Bleak. Yeah. I had so much Domino's when I was at university. I ordered Domino's so much that the man on the phone asked me out on a date and all he knew about me was that I ordered like three to five large solo Hawaiians at like 2pm he really went for it mum turn the fucking thing off Jesus and I'm telling you banana ice cream is shit I'm telling you I'm telling you, it's not going to be working. But this is the thing is that... If you do it, it would be fine. But also, can I just say, this is the poshest... This is the, like, nicest pudding anyone has made me ever. You've got very, very high standards.

47:02Lennie Ware: Shush, Jessie. This is like... No one's ever made homemade ice cream for me. But the thing is, we're doing... What was this? Eating into the whole time with emeralds, but fucking bloody... You could have just had a banana. I think it's going to be delicious. I don't think you'd tell us even if it wasn't. Of course I wouldn't. No, exactly. Because you're lovely. I know this is going to be the most delicious thing in the world. No, it isn't. I don't think it is because it should be much more whippy. So I want to know, did you go on the date with the Domino's guy? I wish. No. Did he sound like a kind of...

47:37Lennie Ware: He sounded like a great guy. This is another rom-com in the Make It Emerald. I feel like we're just doing a bit of a brainstorm here today. But I should say, it sounds like I'm boasting. Why? Because the Domino's Pizza Man asked me how to do a date, but I must say, I should say, he never saw me. We never saw each other in real life. We only spoke on the phone. Well, I mean, look, look, your order and your voice, I think that was it. No, I mean, the order of my voice made me rightly and a fair reflection of the facts at the time. Well, I was in absolute state. I really hung over and miserable and sort of, yeah, but...

48:10No, I didn't go on it. Well, no, because I was with my boyfriend, slash now husband. Oh, sweet. So I've never been on a date with anyone, basically.

48:18Lennie Ware: Oh, Mum, you know what? It's quite good. Hey! It's quite good, but I think it's maybe the double cream on top of it. Oh, my God. That works really nicely. But if you whipped it, if I... Oh, my God, it's so good. Oh, Mum, it is quite good. Oh, it's really good, is it? No. So that's literally just bananas. Is that just bananas? Just bananas. A bit of lemon? No. Not even lemon? Just frozen bananas. is and then but i do think the double cream on top just is like hits it yeah but double but double cream is basically medicine it's good for you um i take it all back i don't know what i'm talking about it was worth it i'll take it back if you let me do it a bit longer it would have been whippier i actually quite like it this yes it's good because i'm getting a little kind of al dente something rather.

49:07Lennie Ware: Yeah, it's got a bit of a, it's like quite chewy. Yeah. Mum, it's really good. I apologise, I apologise. I know nothing. Do you cook every day, all the time? Yeah. Have you always? Even if I'm on my own. Really? Yeah. Yeah. That is amazing. What would be the dish that you would cook if you did cook? I would make, it's usually cakes. I'm making cake, probably. or anything by Nigel Slater I love Nigel Slater so much yeah me too I'd love to meet him the recipe book that he's got where it's not that many ingredients really easy to eat I really like it I never remember what anything's called we've got the kind of seasonal one it's just like I love toast so much and I think really, if it's got vegetables, cheese and carbs, I can do without, I could be a vegetarian, I think, probably.

50:09Lennie Ware: Really? Well, I say that. I'm not. Probably not. Emerald fennel, I'm going to answer this question for you, but I'm going to let you answer it. I've just got great manners. Emerald fennel, do you think you've got good table manners? Definitely not. What? Okay. I think I'm one of the most polite, lovely... That's very kind, but elbows on the table. I just don't think that's eating, I eat preferably with a spoon hunched over the food and I will eat it, I won't look at anyone until it's done, like the way that I eat is not you focus on the job in hand like a male friend once said that it was like distressing to have dinner with me and he's not wrong so I hope that, I mean Yeah, I don't think they are very good.

50:59I like food too much, to be polite. So, okay.

51:03Lennie Ware: Maybe. When you're not going to Mackey D's or PrEP or Itzu, where, when your schedule is a little less mental, will you be going for a lovely dinner out? I will go to the Quality Chop House. Oh, yeah. My very, very good old friend, Will, it's his restaurant so Will is one of the first people I ever met at university and we became friends because this really dates I mean this dates our friendship very much I quoted the Mighty Boosh which at the time was a very underground underground comedy hit and he overheard it and turned around and said Mighty Boosh and it's just like you know being at university what a time he had Clipstone as well yeah Clipstone in Portland and there was one in the centre of town that I don't know if it's still there there was one near an auction house it's the Italian place it's really good but you could get to Clipstone easily from the Palladium yeah but I think for me quality shop there's something so I mean I love all of them also because it sounds so silly but whenever your friends do something like that it's just such an amazing achievement to have a restaurant and one that's like so good like so actively good and i'm so just like proud to know him um and so and not only do i love the restaurants but i think quality chop has so like romantic and the food is they just bring you like a hunk of meat and sides and do it really well yeah it's just sort of it's like as close to going to somebody's house for dinner i think as a restaurant could be.

52:47So that's where I'd like to go with all my friends.

52:51Lennie Ware: I love that. Good luck with Cinderella. Thank you. Good luck with the birth. Good luck with trying to have some time off. Thank you. And thank you for being here. Oh my God, of course. Thank you for having me. I love the podcast so much. And I'm just eating. I'm still. No, I'm eating too. I'm looking at the clock, like shoveling this in.

53:26Lennie Ware: The brilliant Emma Fennell, who just enchanted us and enthralled us with all her work and her stories, and she's just the most engaging person to have met. I still want to be invited to one of her Eurovision karaoke parties. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next week for more Second Health Things.

54:14Go to row.co.slaught.

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