Second Helpings - Nigella Lawson

0:03Hello and welcome to Table Manners. Well, this guest that you're about to hear again was someone that we desperately wanted on and planned to have on for months. Sorry, can I just cut in? What? If I'm going to give you, if I'm going to pass on the baton to give you the chance to do the introduction, at least bloody introduce yourself and me. Thank you. Oh, do you really need any introduction, darling? Well, I don't, but please indulge me. Right. Hi, and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Lenny, and I'm here with my fabulous daughter, who has just been nominated for her second Mercury Prize. Of course, for the fantastic That Feels Good album.

0:51I really appreciate that introduction, Mum. I think you went a little bit too far, so I feel like maybe rein in the pushy Jewish mother if you're going to do it for the next episode okay and what is it is it table manners or is it table manners second helpings mum come on this is a second helping of the most fabulous guest someone we longed for and planned for for months and it involved your brother as well doing most of the cooking it is the goddess that is nigella lawson yes nigella lawson came on back in season four it was at lenny's and we were so excited to have Nigella she was on our wish list since the beginning mum was so nervous about cooking that she that I didn't cook well I did Alex did the prep and I did the cooking Alex was sous chef yeah and you were head chef I was head chef Alex made two custard and blackberry tarts yep you ate one of them I ate one of them before just to check that the one that didn't look so good it was quite delicious and mum made well mum created the menu of it was pistachio crust rack of lamb yes it was really with cocoa beans oh yeah and rainbow chard so this is nigella lawson talking about her favorite places greece greek food her mum's chicken soup recipe midnight snacks and being a fussy eater as a child go and enjoy it this is nigella lawson on table manners second helpings

2:24we have are you sick of being called a goddess or does it ever get does it get boring um it sort of gets boring but i feel you know fraudulent because i so not oh sure so not a goddess you absolutely are we have the goddess that is nigella lawson at my mom's house thank you so much for being on table it's it's so nice to be here um thanks for coming now so okay you kindly bought a candle yes like so alex my because my mum basically we were like searing the lamb we're having lamb tonight and we were searing the lamb before mum's like it smells like a bloody kebab house nothing wrong in that nothing wrong but she and then mum was like gonna light a candle and alex said no no you can't do that you can't have a scented candle if you're going to eat food no i think that's right not in the kitchen he knew we've got not not around food but i think I think you could, if you wanted one, stay over there.

3:16But I think not around food because you just want to smell the food. You're right. So I'm quite happy that we're at a kebab shop. But I've got an open, it doesn't smell like a kebab shop, but I've got an open plan, sort of one big room. So I do have scented candles in there, but they tend not, you know what I mean, they don't waft far enough to where I'm going to eat. What have you been doing today? Well, I got back from Greece last night and I have been doing all the things that pile up. I mean, I wasn't away that long, it's like one week, but all the things that pile up and I've managed some writing.

3:50It's funny that you brought up Greece because we go to Greece every year and Mum was saying about how huge you are in Greece. You're massive. Were you there just on holiday? Well, sort of. I went to a wedding first and then I've got a friend who comes from Mykonos. oh nice were you in Mykonos? So I was in Mykonos too but I wasn't doing any of the things that people do in Mykonos because I was just sitting you know on his veranda speaking to his sisters doing things meeting his friends there and I kept and every I kept they kept making plans to go out and I said oh I just can't well I went a bit I'm you know I just I felt like I don't know I'm not really someone who wants to go dancing before in the morning although I did do a lot of that for the wedding did you eat good food there because i hear the mykonos foods are really good they're a bit more fancy schmance well i did eat good food but also because i was you know you eat the best food in people's houses and so i ate at people's houses because i was with chefs no just people who are okay you know great um no when i was in my course you know this friend of mine is a very good cook and he lives in mykonos he's in london mostly but you know goes back to mykonos and his friends are good cooks and so it was you know really great nice you can buy lovely tomato everything tastes delicious the cucumbers taste the cucumber and the melon smell the most incredible capers oh yes fermented they've just been put fresh in a plastic bottle with lots of salt until all the liquid the salt and the capers all turn into liquid and there's foment oh that's so good do you think you'd be able to make them here or would they just never get fresh capers right okay speak there you couldn't they can pick them i mean it was i think but chrysula's always got jars with things in the bottom fruits or vegetables with some sort of liquid on the top you can do that yes you can do that here but you know you have to get the ingredients but you know the greeks are so wonderful and hospitable i you know just you only have to talk to them they start slicing a sausage I know putting some bit of cheese on the table unwrapping a little something it's so nice I didn't realize you were Jewish so and mom's like of course she is but it's that similar thing is it it's kind of like is there a problem here's some chicken soup is there but also that just putting things in front of you all the time you know and um lots of you know watching to make sure you are eating not as much as my great aunt who is jewish in your family well all my family are but we are not religious but you're still well we know we still claim like you know the jews will still happily proudly talk about you and jc and yeah of course and claim you and you eat chicken soup of course i do certainly can we talk about have you got any particular ingredient that you put in your chicken soup or is it just like no nonsense well no because I do change it a bit and I don't really I do make chicken soup but it isn't really quite chicken soup because I do it more as because of the you know as we do you know the way my mother did it I do it's more I call it my mother's praise chicken because I always say it's part braised and part poached and it's an act of devotion for us my mother died very young and so really what it is is that it's a whole chicken cooked in a pot with carrots and leeks and you know lemon and whatever whatever you want but and a lot of water and so what you do afterwards is that you make a chicken so you've got a chicken soup but you've got whole bits of and you put bits of chicken in yes so you don't have a boiling hen well no otherwise you can't eat that no i don't have a boiling hen i do have a good good chicken if i want to make just chicken soup i use wings not yeah because wings are the best they flavor a lot i buy a lot of wings so i could because i i mum goes to the effort for getting the boiling hen which i she'll go to i didn't the other day that was good chicken that was not bad but will you bother with the matsubals or loxion well i don't because i'm i'm not used to it although i have to say when my son was little he really did because my mother-in-law used to make you know proper uh matzo balls and that sort of thing and all those things as they said lots of things ending in look but i do but i do like all that kind of food when i'm in new york i'll go somewhere that has proper chicken soup yeah where's your favorite i know this is a bit of an annoying question but your favourite country to eat in?

8:33I don't know, because I'm so fond of, you know, Italy, I could eat Italian food all the time. And I lived there when I was young. Where did you live? Mostly in Florence. I was a chambermaid. I was in between school and university. God, you wouldn't mind having Nigella as your chambermaid, would you? But I moved around a bit too. I went south a bit as well. But if I'm in Italy for any length of time, and I really love it, I just come back really longing for some Thai food or a curry because I miss heat. So I do miss heat. I think, in a way, I think England, London, which is really where I'm from, London, is a fantastic place to eat in because you can get everything.

9:18And you get everything. And it's from really little places. I don't mean the fancy places. I'm not mad keen on that. London's a good place to eat. so where are your favorite restaurants oh well it's you know my favorite restaurants are a lot to do i think with habit and that so i love the river cafe because i've been yeah you know i went there when my kids were little you know sunday lunch and there's so it's where i would go for a special occasion yeah if it's you know someone in the family's or one of my children's birthdays you know i will go there and it's lovely especially in summer when you can sit outside so i love that When Hannah graduated, we went there, didn't we?

9:56Yeah, and we had those lovely bellinis with their pink peaches that they'd grown outside. And it's just a good, you know you're going to get a good meal. But also, I know some of the people who work front of house, they've been there since I've been going there. I've been going there since the beginning. It must be a great place to work. You know, so I remember, I went there 30 years ago, maybe 31 years ago. Yeah, I think I did. Or something. And they've been working there. So you feel that great sense of continuity. And I like that. I mean, I do sometimes like going to a new place. But... My new favourite place is spring.

10:34Yeah, that's... I do love it. The food's... The skies are... And it's such a pretty place to eat. I don't really like going to restaurants a lot. I do more when I'm abroad. Is it because you get recognised and it just feels like... A bit. It just makes it unpleasant. Because you feel like people are watching how you're eating. Not that I mind that, but a bit. But it's a bit that. But I think sometimes it's a bit that I do cook quite a lot at home and I eat quite a lot at home. So when I go out, I tend to want something plainer. Oh, I see. So when I'm away, I'm not eating that much. So even then, though, I like quite plain things.

11:16Roeville is quite good. Have you been to Yotam? I'm taking her for her birthday. because they are taking it for birthday. Okay, you've got to have the celeriac. Yeah, the celeriac. Celeriac shawarma. Yeah. And the lobster crumpets with sesame. We're going there for your birthday now. Oh my God, it's so good. But when you say, so you enjoy cooking at home, do you ever feel like it becomes like work? Because I sometimes... You know, us doing this podcast, I mean, you know, my pleasure of, I mean, I know your pleasure has gone from doing, you know, I mean, not that you ever enjoy cooking in the first place.

11:49That's really odd. I made her do this fucking podcast. Yeah, it's really odd. I think it's more pressure because we want to make it kind of special. But I think cooking for people you don't know is terrifying. So if you're just talking about cooking for friends or a family or myself, well, that's fine. But if I feel there are people that I don't know or I don't feel at ease in front of, I always think people are going to get so disappointed because they expect it to be really fancy. and it is really, you know, roast chicken. But that's what I've always liked about your programme. It was always about, like, this occasion, but it was just friends.

12:25It wasn't supposed to be something over-fancy, especially communal eating. But we all sometimes feel, you know, exhausted. There are times when I feel I am just too exhausted to cook. However, once I'm actually pottering about in the kitchen, you know, stirring something, I decompress and I feel better. but I think that there are certain moods when you when it does all feel like too much but actually it's like so many things you know the thought of it um looms so so much and you have such dread but then when you do it I like it but I think that whenever it is too much it's because I've I've decided to do too much and that's why I nearly always write my list and then read it again and then cross half the things out because I've thought oh I'm gonna do too much you don't need all that much I mean I think that there's a slight I find it slightly difficult sometimes if I'm cooking and I have to remember what I'm doing when and then people sort of you know how they want to talk to you and they suddenly lounge in front of the stove and you're trying to get something or I forget yeah but I think mostly it doesn't really matter and it's as long as you kind of keep your calm calm it's that that's more important than whether things work or not I mean I am you know I do tend to be someone of those people that says oh that should be more like this or that that's over yeah that's undercooked but I will only allow myself to do it once because I think otherwise it becomes a bit boring a burden on other people what are they meant to say you know so that's the wrong thing yeah but I also feel that um I don't you know the clearing up on the other hand sometimes that you know sometimes I just think oh god I can't face that um does that make you decide like have you ever been like you know what I'd love to do that but that is going to require so much clearing up i can't be asked i'm going to do a one potter well i never do fancy things anyway but it is just more that sometimes it's about this which is that i've got some plates i really like but they just don't fit in the dishwasher and you can't be asked and and it's just that thing of there are lots of people but actually again when you do it but i'm one of those people see i don't mind washing i can't stand the putting away again yeah i get that but i have to say though but i don't particularly want people to help me clear up because i need to do it in my own time yeah yeah and just leave it and do it but but i you know i don't cooking as performance art has never interested me right so it's it's just got to taste try and taste as good as possible it does but also just it does make people feel welcome but also one of the things that's quite good about being in greece is you realize they don't make a distinction between whether something is made or bought you know if it's a lovely bit of cheese for example i'm going um to a talk yeah on thursday and with a friend and obviously i can't really cook i mean i cook at something before and i'm in the studio all week so i just said to her afterwards so well you know let's come back and have smoked salmon at mine after and that is really nice so i think the thing is it's nice it's wonderful to eat with people and share food with people and i don't think you have to fetishize whether it's i don't feel i have to start you know chiselling you know radishes into chrysanthemums to go with it you know I might make a salad as well and I might then feel a bit inspired to put different things in it at the same time but actually I just want to know there's food there that we're not going to have too late a night and yes you know because I'm going to be up early in the next morning so I don't want to make a big deal of it but do you I mean have there been any kind of brilliant mistakes you've made in when you've been kind of because you know you've got you're a chef you know well I'm not though that's the no but that's a really really big distinction it's a really big distinction but how can you not because she's not because i've never i have no but i've never cooked for in the in public like having a restaurant even like when i do demos i think oh my god please do i have to do a demo because i mean i don't you've seen me on tv i don't cut properly you don't need to but i think that's the charm yeah but that's not you know i'm not a chef i'm not trained and i speak to your time about it i don't think it he's not a chef though he's trained as a pastry chef I think but okay would you call yourself a cook yes but I'm yeah I call myself a home cook okay god I won't call you a home cook yeah but I suppose makes it you sound like us no but that's only because home cooks always you know talk themselves down I think of myself predominantly as a food writer to be honest because it was writing about food that made me yeah I wondered how you learned to cook I learned from such a young age because my mother believed in child labor and of course you know in the olden days that people didn't worry about you know child safety you know so we had a very rickety sort of or we had an old it was called something like new world gas range and um you know we'd she'd put a bricky chair me and my sister we'd be standing on the chair stirring things and just getting things on so we weren't doing it as amusement you know now you know you were helping we were yes we had to help and do things properly so the for me the big challenge um when i wrote my first book was learning how to weigh and measure because certain things are certain things i did weigh and measure for but things like making a white sauce you know bechamel I had no idea how to do it except by sight and feel and then I had to I think it's called reverse engineer and I do that quite a lot a lot of my recipes come because I just cook something then I have to work out what I did it's so tedious that part isn't it because it doesn't come naturally to me but I've got a slightly obsessive streak which comes in handy what did you do at university medieval modern languages oh no no I'm at maths not my strong point i did manage to pass an o-level but not that's it medieval and modern so what languages do you speak oh god hardly any now french german and english oh piss off nigella no i don't mean french german english i mean french german and italian um but i actually don't think i would be able to remember any german now although i did rather love it and which medieval language well all of them go you know going back but mostly you know but mostly italian and you know going from sort of medieval latin and also provencal with the with the french people but i mean you don't you just read it you're not having to talk anything how exciting i like reading i'm a reader so i was going to do english but then i thought i'll do languages because what was the last book you read that you loved i am reading at the moment a book that i am rather transfixed by called i think it's called the overstory and it's uh it's i've heard about trees yes people and their connection to trees.

19:10Isn't it on the book of shortlist? It is, yes. Is she Australian? She's not the one that's terribly young. No, I think it's written by a man. I can't remember his name and I should because I read it on the iPad. You don't have the book in front of you. Oh, God, really? I can't do it. It hurts my eyes doing the iPad. Well, I read with snipers lenses at night, so I've got lenses which are yellow, which block out the blue light. It's only because when I go away, how many books can you take? And also, I'm a very bad sleeper, so if I read a book with a light on, it's going to keep me awake longer than reading with my iPad and my sniper's glasses.

19:51That's where you read, in bed? Or anywhere. Oh, you read a lot? How many books a month would you read? It's difficult to say because it depends what I'm doing, because if I'm out a lot. Okay, if you were really busy. I would probably read one or two books a week oh my god no but I don't do other things no it's not about good or bad well I do sometimes but it's not about so it's like you're reading I don't watch TV a lot you see there's so much good TV at the moment I know there is and I do watch some but I do feel I need a certain amount of quiet so I can only do noise for so long I need to learn to learn about that But you see, my idea of, you know, a really great evening is going to bed very early.

20:38No wonder I don't see it, because they always say you mustn't go to bed really early and just read for hours. Why? And if I'm not doing anything at the weekend, I get up, I have tea, I might do some, you know, yoga class or something like that. And then I go back to bed with a book and that's what I do in the daytime. See, you're a bit of an insomniac. Or you're a bad sleeper. Well, I am an insomniac, but I try and live with it, and I try and do things about it. I mean, I'm kind of with you on the thing of going to bed. I love early dinner. Do you see, you're not an insomniac. I'm not an insomniac.

21:14I'm not an insomniac. Jessie could sleep standing up. No, but you see, they always say, and every time I've seen anyone about my bad sleep, they always say, you must go to bed much later, and you mustn't lie down and read in bed. Why? Because you're meant to just go there for sleep and give yourself a shorter window. But if I go to bed late, I worry, because I wake up early, I worry about how little sleep I'm going to get. But I think this is a function of having children. I think you never, ever lose. You never lose that thing of working out backwards how much sleep. You know, when you stay out longer than you mean, you always try and count how many hours sleep.

21:53If I actually get to sleep when I get home, how many hours sleep maximum am I going to get? And you never quite recover from that. And then you stress out about it so much you stop yourself sleeping. I know, I know. And I always get worried about, oh, I'm going to be tired when I do that and I'm not going to get enough sleep, which is a really mad way of thinking about it. But I think it leaves a scar. Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. I mean, you know. I mean, so, because actually my brother, because my brother really is a big fan and that's kind of why he had to leave the room. But he wanted to know, like, you know, because you talk about going down for like a midnight feet like you've well i do that in tv more than i do i mean i try not to is that an actual thing when i try not to still um i try not to i only really do that if i've been drinking at all because i'm not very good at alcohol so any i mean in the sense do you not drink yeah i do but not very often i mean i did you know quite a lot in greece i have to say but what i mean is is that so if i come back from having if If I have even two glasses of wine...

22:57You get to go with snacks. No, but it makes my blood sugar go up and then I need to have lots of food afterwards. So I often will go out for dinner and if I have wine, I have to eat something when I get back. So when you go out for dinner, do you drink wine then? I do sometimes. I try and drink wine with people. Not always. Sometimes I just can't face it. Have you never liked it very much? Yes, but I've never been a big drinker. Okay. It's like you, really. But I do like it, but I'm a bit... I mean, I do try to, because I think sometimes if you don't drink, it's like after the first hour of a party, you're in a different room than everyone else, and that can be quite difficult.

23:35I mean, I feel that I'm quite an anxious person, and drink can really exacerbate that anxiety. Or the other way. It depends. Well, I think at first it doesn't. It gets rid of it at first, but then after, words you don't that horrible you know tight feeling of you know worry and just generally just not feeling quite right Kingsley and Miss always said there were two hangovers the physical hangover and the metaphysical hangover and the metaphysical hangover was worse yeah definitely wondering what you said the night before but it isn't even that it's just that I mean I don't mean that much drinking it's just it does something to me but I think maybe it's an age thing too after a certain age you don't well the hangover you don't deal with wine as well you have you know what it is it's being out of practice so um i last year training last year i went into training a bit because i was went to italy for three days and so the two weeks before that i started having a glass of wine a bit each week to go to training to get myself used to it i love that I this is actually quite selfish of me I've got my best mate's hen coming up and I've decided we've got this beautiful house in Canberra Sands that it's kind of it's like this Scandinavian like beautiful we've basically put all the fucking budget in the house which means that I'm kind of stumped with maybe trying to be quite genius about what brunch we're going to do what would be your best go to brunch thing for 12 people that's kind of feels like I can feel like I'm slightly effilious I was thinking Kedgeri Yeah, I think that's a good thing.

25:14It's quite good. It is if you've got big enough pots. I've got quite an easy recipe too that I do quite a bit in the oven. I call it my Asian flavoured one. Oh, yeah. And it's made with salmon. It's not traditional. No, that's fine. It's got lime and coriander and that sort of thing. So it doesn't have smoked haddock in it? No, it's not at all like that. I just, but you know, but Kedgeri is great. Or you can do one of those things, I think they call them strata in American. I've got a croque monsieur bake. yeah which is so so really you're doing like a savory bread and butter pudding so that's delicious i've got so you i've got brown bread yeah uh plastic brown bread yeah you know because you're the thin um like sliced kind of yes not with i mean you could use any okay um and i make sort of i make um cheese and ham sandwiches i think it's gruyere and ham with some Dijon mustard, and then you beat eggs, and you can put that in the fridge the night before, and you put eggs and milk in it, and you let it soak in, and then you just put it in the oven in the morning.

26:19That sounds good. Like eggy bread. Well, it is, but it's like a pudding. It's in a dish. It's in a casserole. Oh, yeah. Do you know what would be quite nice? More. To do, like, a Chinese congee. You know, if you had a slow cooker. Oh, what, like the rice? Yes, that ricey soup with chicken stock. But not everyone likes that. I know. I feel like that could be a bit like Marmite. I'd quite like rice pudding and jam, wouldn't you? In the morning? I wouldn't mind. Actually, I don't... You see, I... Do you know the funny thing is, breakfast is the only time I actually have to make myself eat rather than...

26:51Oh, really? And so because of that, I have the same thing every day, more or less. And what is it? Porridge? No, I don't. You know, I don't understand. Porridge just makes me starving. You know how everyone says it fills you up? Yeah, me too. It makes me completely starving. Me too. I mean, I love it. Porridge with golden syrup, delicious. And they say it's got this slow release energy. I'm still waiting for it. For me, not at all. No, I have poached egg on toast. We do. Do you add Marmite? I don't. I sometimes do. But, you know, I'm a traitor to my people because I like Vegemite. Oh, get out.

27:21I'm sorry. How can you? Because Marmite isn't what it used to be. What? Does it change? Yes, I do. I feel it lacks the bass note now. It's all squeaky and high. Where's the bass note in Vegemite? I don't know, because it's matte rather than shiny. It's a bit more base note-y. But I do... There was one that Marmite they brought out some time ago that was XO or XS or something like that, and that was delicious, and it tasted more like... Like meaty. Yeah, it tasted more... Like that strong, rich flavour. Oh, God, I didn't even know about the XO Marmite one. I still love Marmite. Anyway, so it absolutely has to be done.

28:00Poached egg. So you have poached egg on toast. Yes, I do. I used to have I used to have boiled egg on toast but since I taught myself how to poach an egg very late in the day tell us how you do yours if I'm doing it for fancy like people coming I first crack the egg over a tea strainer to get rid of it because a French chef told me this is that the point about eggs is that the older they are if they're not really fresh the older they are some of the white turns watery and that's what makes all the strands but when I what I do when it's just me at home or you know the kids I crack the egg into a little cup yeah and I pour lemon juice or vinegar just on the white and leave it there while the water heats up and everything and then when I so I don't get the water boiling it's just nearly bubbling very very low and then I tip the egg in and I leave the watery bit that stayed in the bottom of the cup in the cups and then so it's more it's a bit more solid as I say I strain it if I want it perfect and everything and then I leave it and I leave it on very low sometimes if it's only got one egg you can turn it off and leave it for three to four four minutes yeah um just in the turned off water but I but if it's only more than one egg I think you have to have it very low but I have it so low that I often forget to turn it off altogether anyway so I leave that in and I take it out with a slotted spoon pat it on a bit of a kitchen towel and then I put it on my toast

29:35is the food ready do i need to turn on the celeriac mum wanted to drizzle the truffle oil in front of you okay celeriac so how did you do how did you do the celeriac i just boiled it i find peeling celeriac and cutting it so hard you know It's so difficult. Have you ever tried Yotam's whole baked celeriac? It's about three hours. I haven't, but I keep meaning to. Because I find it impossible to peel and cut.

30:07We've done rack of lamb with a pistachio crust. And it's just sitting there, so I'm going to cut it. So what was the kind of most memorable dish from your childhood that your mum used to make? Well, do you know what? I really, really hated meals as a child. And whenever people come to me and they say, oh, my child doesn't eat, I will say, listen, I did later, but I never did as a child. I didn't like it at all. You didn't like the sitting down? I don't know, because I didn't like... I don't remember enjoying the eating either, but I was brought up in a very strict way. So you were given your food, and you had to stay at the table until you finished it.

30:50and if you didn't finish it, the plate was given to you cold at the next meal. And that was actually old-fashioned even when I was a child. And so I didn't like that. But I liked quite strange things as well. I loved spinach, which I still do. I adored spinach, a lot of spinach with butter, my idea. So that was what you were having when you were younger? When I went to my grandmother's. And she would let me have what I wanted. so if I wanted a big bowl of spinach I could have that and um uh but and I used to go I used to go to Panza's with her she lived in Cavendish Avenue and I used to go to Panza you know Panza's yeah of course you do yeah and it's Circus Road Circus Road near St John's Wood yeah and um so I'd go there and we'd buy things and we'd go to the butcher and we'd go home and make something and I ate weird things like I you know I like brains and uh brown butter and I didn't and I'm so you I was very, very young.

31:49I didn't realise it was actually brains from an animal. I just thought it was something called brains. You know what I mean? Oh, wow. Do you still like brains? I do. I do like... I had something in Greece called kokoretsi. Kokoretsi is fabulous. It's like awful. It is all awful in a row. And then the intestine on the outside, almost like intestine all crackling on the outside. It's so delicious. If you were going for a bring a dish, bring a dish to a friend's party. Oh, God, she would make me so nervous. Would this stress you out? It would, actually, because I feel like I was being judged. But you probably, I mean, people expect something up front of you now, right?

32:27Bait pasta, I think, is quite a good thing. Bait pasta? Okay, so come on, tell me, just like a tray bake. Well, yes, but I mean, so I might do a bait, I do one with mushrooms. I do a kind of like a bechamel and lots of mushrooms and stir them all in together. or but I do want to when I I suppose one of the things I do remember from when I was a child that my mother um used to cook was leeks and white sauce and I cook it in the same way so I don't say it's different so she would cook the leeks in water cut them into you know short logs cook the leeks in water and then mix that water with the milk to make the best smell I put I put vermuth dry white vermuth because I don't drink enough wine to have open bottles of wine yeah you could So I put a bit of, you know, I don't mean the best, you know, a bit of martini.

33:14Bianca. And with the water, not that much for the leeks. And I use that to make the sauce. And I use, and sometimes, my daughter calls it pie insides, because when I used to make pies, I used to put that in. Oh, yeah, lovely. But sometimes I make that into a pasta bake. Oh, that sounds nice. With cheese, and it's just leeks and cheese. Oh, I could do that. When we're having the manicures on the Saturday at the end. Do you think you're ready to eat? Yes, I'm starving. always ready yeah are you in kind of mad working mode at the moment promoting because how to eat has been re public I mean yes I don't know there's a reissue there's a sort of 20th anniversary so I'm doing a bit of that you've got a book tour other yeah I am I'm going I'm looking forward to that I like doing this lovely lovely fantastic um from wonderful gingerbread yes i know this so how many would you like that's unfair to us and would you like four yeah that's how much i would eat three or four and do you want me to cut them through or will you cut them through will you cut them please okay unless that's a nuisance mum is being really different to how she usually presents no i know it doesn't suit you um but you've got a book tour yeah so it's a sort of a book tour but it's really it's not really going to be just about how to eat i i'm going to various theaters yeah but i'm looking forward to it because what's really nice i've got such wonderful people yeah um interviewing me yeah and also so the second half you know it's the first half is sort of talking so it's you know in a way as you know when you interview people it's where the questions go and it's a conversation but then what I really like is the second half is questions from the audience and that's always interesting because I you know you never know what you never know but I never know when someone's interviewing me I don't ever want to be told beforehand what you know you've got to answer in that moment it's actually really yeah it's because otherwise otherwise you start you know trying to think what would be my answer you know but also to have different interviews I mean I've I've never done a book tour, so I don't know how it is.

35:30But, I mean, it's just... And to choose such brilliant people like Dolly. And who else have you got interviewing? I've got Diana Henry. I've got Charlotte Mendelsohn, a novelist. I've got... Did you choose these? Were you like... I quite like these people. Yes, I was. I wanted people from different... You know, of different ages, different... Who'd written different sort of books. But people who are interested in food or writing. Yeah, yeah. Oh, thank you. yes please mum that pink lamb is just perfect that is cooked to perfection Michelle Rue Junior would be very impressed mum

36:11mum this is great oh my god that's great that's so perfect it is it's just perfect we ask everybody last supper you see that's such a difficult one okay desert island supper No, no, no. I'll tell you why. Because I feel there are so many things. I feel making choices and leaving things out is going to be so difficult. Okay, so first I would have either guacamole, but the one I do without any tomatoes and not with red onions, but just spring onions, green chillies, lime, salt, coriander, avocado. or rockamole, which I do, which is blue cheese and guacamole mixed. So it's got spring onion, sour cream, blue cheese.

37:05And I won't have, I have one and I think maybe I'd have the rockamole. Go out with a bag and have the rockamole. And I'd have some incredible bread and butter and bread and olive oil, every sort. What kind of incredible bread? I think I would have incredibly good French bread or English white loaf with butter and I'd have some extraordinary sourdough. Okay. I had some incredible sourdough from the Dusty Knuckle. They're my friends. Are they? Yeah. Funny enough. Oh, my God. Becky's going to be so happy. And my God, it was so good. I had their potato sourdough. They're phenomenal. Oh, my God. It was so good.

37:45So I'd have that. And then I think I would have linguine with clams. you know with garlic parsley and a bit of chilli no tomatoes anywhere white wine oh no tomatoes no absolutely I forbid the tomatoes and then you see then you see it's difficult because you do get quite full up so I would want a proper roast chicken dinner but I would also like I love that that was a primi a primi oh yes but but also you know it's your last dinner you're going to have dinner but I would also like you know a proper steak and chips with bearnaise sauce as well. I think that could be a match. And I would like a fennel and lemon salad with or without maybe some very thinly bits of pecorino.

38:29Very thinly cut raw fennel lemon juice cleansing. I'd have peas. I do frozen peas which I cook for a very long time so they go grey and they're so delicious. Why? Because they just cook them with. Well it depends. Sometimes I just do a bit of vermuth and mustard or sometimes I just do a bit of oil and butter and So they kind of look like those miserable peas that you get in the fish chips. They look like the French bottled ones. No, because they're small. Because they're petit pois. They look like the French bottled ones. So I might have to have those too, but certainly. And then I think I would have some gorgonzola.

39:06Yeah. And then either like blackberries and cream or lemon meringue tart. Well, hopefully you're going to like the pudding. Yeah. Which Alex made. It's a blackberry and custard tart. Yeah. With your recipe for the pastry. Oh, good. Yeah, he did it. Oh, so nice. Well, that's actually the first time that we've done kind of a cook. And it's not meant to be sycophantic. It was just Alex is obsessed with this. Because we've just received your book. Yeah. I think that crust was very good, wasn't it? Everything was very good. It was pistachio and mint. I love mint. So underused.

39:47Do you think you have good table manners? well i think i don't know judge i don't know but you see everyone um i think as in the rest of life what man is really i was being considerate to other people see my mother brought even though there was old-fashioned strict in some ways had these rather she was quite quirky as well so she's to say don't ask stretch because you know when you were little you were told really she said it there's nothing she said it's very rude to interrupt people's conversation so if people are talking don't say excuse me can you pass potatoes just get them oh no you see with the other way i know the other way around everyone was brought up the boarding house reach everyone was brought up the other way around but she said that but i think that really manners are about being considerate to other people yeah i agree um i mean it is difficult there are certain people who you you really need not to be looking at when they eat and that's not pleasant and I think probably a lot of them are in my family but um I don't think that I mean I think if you're when you see people sitting around a table and they're not being together that's quite a sad thing I think so what would I say I have certain rules I don't like which I know that I don't like cross-contamination so I can't bear it if I see someone putting um i haven't i i have servings yes and i don't like it and if people use their yes and people use other spoons and i don't like it if people put anything a butter knife is a butter knife i don't want people to be putting um i agree jam or crumbs in the butter i don't like that i think that's perfectly reasonable but i wouldn't tell someone else off but i wouldn't tell someone else i realized that that was because i was brought up very strictly about that and so i have a thing about it why were they so strict do you think i don't know this were but was eating important in your family because food was the food was and the appreciation of the food because in i think in those days it was considered rather vulgar to talk about food whereas at home you know other people said you know it was not considered the done thing whereas we were always We're always talking about what we've eaten, what we're going to eat, other things we could be eating as we're eating.

42:08But even when, you know, but as I say, as a child, I wasn't so much like that. But as I grew older, like teenage, I did get much more interested in eating. And I think it's because I, and this is, I think it's because I like being in control of it. And I, in a way, I love being cooked for, but I can't imagine what it would be like not knowing what you're going to eat every day. but I knew every day what I was going to eat no but what I mean is that some people are cooked for always oh I see what you mean and they don't mind what they eat do you think that even applies to when people just basically eat out every night because then they know what they're going to I mean I don't I couldn't do that I feel like I need that control too and I it's not just that but I it panics me if I'm out and I don't see anything I want to eat I get a bit panicked oh my god me too you see I think often as well with hunger is that I don't always experience hunger like in my tummy that I need to eat.

43:06My mood goes. Yeah. And I experience it as panic and despair rather more than actually thinking, oh, I need to eat. And every now and then I think, oh, maybe I need food. I never forget. No, I never forget. But I never forget. But sometimes if you're working, you can't. I feel you have to. And when I'm traveling, sometimes I miss food and it's really hard for me. I get a bit hysterical when I'm not fed. I think we should have dessert. Oh yeah, let's have dessert, sorry, yes. Are you left in charge of what goes on top? It's crème fraîche, but it was supposed to be whipped crème fraîche, but we didn't whip it.

43:41We don't need it. We don't need crème fraîche with the custard tart. You don't think? I think you need the tartness. I'm going to have it, but... I'm going to take a picture. I'm going to take a picture of Nigella taking a picture. I have to say, your pastry's very good, Nigella. Alex has done a very good job Mum's quiche dish which is a bit deeper got broken today Nigella said don't use quiche dishes Oh yes, because ceramic makes it a soggy bottom This is so good isn't it I like the creme fraiche with it because it gives a little tartness I can understand that but I don't know Let me try it with as well It's a very good pastry recipe But it's very crisp it is isn't it I can taste the nutmeg in the um custard so how did um forgive me if you've talked about this so much but how did you get into starting because you were a journalist before you became well so what I wrote about um all manner of things I started off in the literary side in arts and arts journals and then literary um the literary pages and then I wrote sort of being a columnist but I also at the same time did write a restaurant column from quite a young age but that was once every two weeks but the other stuff I did you know more days a week so you were a restaurant critic how did you find that?

45:14Well that was in the days when there weren't restaurant critics much they had stopped and they had been but then they'd sort of stopped and I started it again. That was very clever It was only, you know, but I've, you know, in a way it was quite interesting because I felt that my job was to sort of give an idea of the experience to people. I mean, I didn't do that way it's done now often when it's a funny turn. Yeah. You know. But I think we've all become a nation of critics, don't you think? Because of MasterChef and Bake Off. And Twitter. Yes. Yes, I think social media, because of social media, blogging and social.

45:54And talent shows and XFactor. So we're all very critical of things. And I think that's what makes people nervous of cooking because they almost feel they're going to be judged. Absolutely. I think you're right. How do we reverse that then? Well, I think you just have to surround yourself by people you like and then they're not judging. Would you like coffee or tea? Tea, maybe. I've got some fresh mint for tea. I'd love that. I'm very happy. Thank you so much for doing this. we've wanted you to be on this podcast since we thought of it. Oh, I'm so pleased with it for... I mean, I couldn't feel more at home or...

46:27I'm happier than... Good. It's so great. But no, this has been bucket list ticked. Oh God, I hope I haven't been a disappointment. Are you kidding? That's worse. You've given me all the ideas for my hen do that I'm looking for and you've been amazing. Thank you.

46:54Darling, it's just as fabulous to listen to her now as it was then. She was a wonderful guest. And do you remember she wrote beautiful thank you cards? Yeah, she did. One to Alex in beautiful brown ink. It was such a privilege to have Nigella. Classy. Well, I'm going to go off and ping Mum Mikrawavi and you are going to not put a scented candle on whilst you cook. I'm not. Big faux pas. Thank you for listening to Table Manners' Second Helpings and we will see you next week.