Second Helpings - Sam Smith

0:03Hello and welcome to Table Manners, a very special edition. Mum what are we going to call these bonus episodes, these revisited episodes. Rehashed? Rehashed. Isn't that what you do with the beans, those Mexican things? Re-fried, that's re-fried. Re-fried, maybe we'll call it re-fried. I don't know if that's good. That kind of looks like we killed the episode the first time round, I don't know. Well let's call it seconds, we're giving you a chance to taste it again. Second helpings? Second helpings or another taste. I think we've got it, by Jove we've got it. Welcome to Table manners second helpings i'm jesse ware and i'm here on zoom with my mum how are you mum as you know you can't see me darling do you want to tell the listener why the veneer came off last night eating the crust of a pizza with your children you're making my children sound like they were complicit in they were they don't eat the crust so i did no that's just you being a greedy cow That's exactly right.

1:08You know, people that listen to this podcast know about Lenny's veneers and how scared she is about them. And it took a soggy crust to rip that veneer off. Actually, it wasn't that soggy. It was the most delicious crust I've ever tasted. Well, was it worth it? From your local pizza place. No, it was not. Anyway, so I can't see you, but we shall reminisce about some of our past guests. We are going into our 16th series and some of you may have just joined us. A lot of you joined us during lockdown and we have plenty of amazing guests that we had way back when. But maybe you aren't scrolling that far back.

1:48You know, this is five years of episodes. So we thought we'd give you a refried, rehashed, reintroduction to some of the early episodes. and what better way to start than right at the beginning, our first ever episode, which was in, oh my God, 2017, November. Oh my God, nearly six years ago. Who'd have thought I'd be sitting here six years on? Oh God, that's quite bleak. I'm glad I'm still here, darling. What, like professionally or kind of - Or physically. Physically, okay, right. We are starting from the top. It's Sam Smith. They came on to talk about an album, but really they did me a favour.

2:31And I think from what I remember, mum made her fabulous turkey meatballs, which then went on to go into the cookbook. They'd just done Saturday Night Live. Since then, Sam has gone on to have a brilliantly filthy song called Unholy, which we all love. It's on tour at the moment. It's just quite fabulous. also we need to say you know this was six years ago we've learned from our mistakes we no longer call the last supper a death row meal however it is called a death row meal in there so before you go and email me telling us that we are awful human beings we know and that's why we changed it about one year in however apologies it's called the death row meal in this and mum is getting a Deliveroo.

3:17Why are you getting a Deliveroo at nine in the morning? That's what I want to know mum. Because I've got no milk for my coffee. Fair enough. Without further ado, less of Lenny's milk dramas and teeth dramas, actually altogether calcium dramas. I feel calcified yeah. This is Sam Smith, our very first Table Manners episode. Enjoy.

3:56Hey! Hello Sam Smith! Right what can I get you to drink? Coffee. What? Coffee please. Oh Harden I know about this. I made a bet with Max. Who's Max? Max Gerrans. I know who Max is but everyone else doesn't. I made a bet with him that I basically said I didn't want to drink to Christmas Eve and he said I couldn't do it and I was like I'm gonna show you and why don't you make it to Christmas Eve he used to get a tattoo of my choice he's never had a tattoo before and isn't it gonna be on his bottom on his lower back and what are you gonna put down Dick Whisperer

4:38he thinks I'm gonna make him get Dick Whisperer how are you finding not drinking it's interesting it's cleared my head massively so the last week is super stressful and I really just want a bloody drink just wine but it's fine it's fine it's why I'm smoking yeah well I'm gonna get you coffee do you want black coffee I've got almond milk thank you right I'm heating up the food babe it's like so I thought that you were being really healthy that's what max said your manager he was like Sam's on a healthy tip so I was like yeah fine. So we've done something relatively healthy. I mean mum got you courgette, she didn't know what cauliflower rice was.

5:20But we've got it but we've actually just got white rice which is far more delicious. I've fair rice. I've fair rice. I wanted to save myself for this. Okay fine. But it's still, it's not gonna like make you hate yourself after. No, god no, jeez. I've been eating so badly in New York. Did you go to Carbone? What's that? Oh my god, it's the best Italian ever. They do this vodka pasta, which is insane. I went to San Ambrosia. Have you been there? No. Oh, it's incredible. It's Italian as well. They do good Italian in New York. They really do. So, you were there because you were doing SNL? Yeah. It was stressful, I'm not going to lie.

5:58Was it? Why? Why do you think, Mum, it's his first thing back from being the biggest pop star in the world? But it's like, Do you know what it is? It's like in that moment, I mean obviously you feel like you're in a team, you know this Jessie, but you have a team around you. But in that moment it's all on you. It's all on you and it's live. I nearly puked in the dress run whilst I was singing because I was starting to feel a bit sick as well. It was horrible. But then I just had a bit of Coca-Cola, chilled my stomach out. really that bad yeah and then I got through it which was great because I always just think of you as brilliant at live well you're the most capable singer I know but like you are brilliant at singing live and I had to get a hypnotherapist for my Jules Holland performance no I didn't think that you got that scared I'm getting more and more scared it's really intense why I don't know fabulous why would you be so in the moment I don't I forget to sing, how to sing, you forget everything.

7:06It's the live TVs that are so intense. And it's like, I think the thing that people forget is your voice, like as soon as you're nervous, dry throat, clamps up, can't do it. It's not like playing a trumpet and you can just like play it. So true. There's no room for human error, is there really? No. And it's sad because you think back at all the music that I'm inspired by and I know that you are too, is imperfect, you know. All those old soul records, you know, those look at Etta James performing live and all that stuff she was messing up all the time but it was part of it and it was part of the but because of Autotune and because of all of that I feel like everyone just wants you to be on the money every time and I think talent shows too because I know that I talk about when they go a bit flat but then I listened to like I saw the Whitney documentary recently oh my god me too cried the BBC one the Nick Broomfield one yeah yeah and you know she goes really flat and I don't care yeah completely you don't care No, because it's feeling.

8:03Yeah. It's feeling. It's... No, it was great. New York's amazing. Well, I mean... It's exciting. It's... SNL, I've never done it. It's like the biggest TV show to do. Yeah. Because you what? You do how many songs of your own? You do two, but then you rehearse on the Thursday and the Saturday you come in and you do two more rehearsals. So it's like this big performance that is built up. And do you have to do like comedy skits? No, no, I didn't do that. Fuck no. But you're funny. We can swear, right? Babe, it's my podcast. Come on. So to bring it back to the reason we're here, firstly, thank you so much for doing this.

8:43Babe, are you joking? Any excuse to see you. Any excuse to see you. And any excuse to eat with you. Yes. We've had good meals together. So many good meals. We love food. I love food more than my family. It's the best thing in the world. It's the only thing that actually gets me through every day. So can I ask you, because I guess for me, just to explain, I decided to do this podcast because obviously, you know, my mum's a really good cook. She always does this face where she goes, she's great and food's been always important to our family. Like, with you growing up, were you a foodie family? Massively.

9:22My dad couldn't cook, so my dad was a house husband. Well, he could cook, it's really bad for me to say that, but every time he'd follow a recipe, he'd just pour water in it. I remember him cooking this amazing curry once, and he'd follow the recipe, and it was this Jamie Oda recipe, it was incredible, and then he just put the whole entire pot under the tap. I don't know why he did it, it's really weird. Maybe he thought it wasn't enough sauce. Yeah, maybe, but he never trusted the recipe, so Dad would always ruin the meals at the last minute, but food-wise, as a kid, it was my mum. My mum's cooking was outrageous.

9:55but we also as a kid I was very lucky I went out to eat a lot which was great but you grew up in near Cambridge yeah near Cambridge countryside so there's some beautiful places to go to um but yeah food to know I've always had a weird relationship with food though it's something that I love so much like my sisters were never that fussed by it I live to eat rather than eat to Me too, it's not a problem, I think it's a gift. I really do believe it's a gift because I don't, I watch, I used to watch my sisters and being forced to finish their plates every day. I don't understand that! I don't understand that!

10:34It's mad. I'm already thinking about my second plate when I've just got my serving. I'm thinking about my meal, I'll be thinking about breakfast on the way home tonight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's mad. So your mum was a really good cook? Mum's unbelievable, she's got even, like, she's got better now. but she was incredible but it would because she worked in the city it'd be once a week which made it more of an event I guess so what would it be like weekends weekends yeah like roasts roasts she's amazing at all different types of Thai food but she just loves following recipes so she'll just go in so they're both quite they do follow a recipe yeah yeah massively dad tries to oh bless him he used to just cook a lot of jack of potatoes and cheese and beans which is still my favourite thing in the world me too loads cheese and beans well I like So Sam, my husband, who you know, likes to have cold baked beans.

11:22Oh. Don't. I didn't understand it until I had it. So we love jacket potato night. It's one of my favourite nights. Where you have it and you have all the different toppings. So you do tuna mayonnaise. Tuna, yeah. Coleslaw. Coleslaw. Nice salad. I like to do grated carrot with some cheddar. Just because you feel a bit less guilty. And then he has cold beans. That's strange. I don't like that. Yeah. Does it taste good? I just don't understand why you'd have cold beans Me either I don't know if it's his way of trying to be salt of the earth and like brings him back to camping in the Lake District I don't fucking know but you had a stove there too babe but anyway I have to have cold beans but I do love a jackpotato Unbelievable Do you cook?

12:06I try to but for me cooking in my family actually my mum's side of the family is a huge thing that I link it with getting older like I can't wait to get like 60, 70 and just like cook. It's like my retirement plan. Would you open a restaurant? No, just like family cooking. I just think it's something that I just want to do when I have more time. I really do it every night. So like, do you ever cook at home? I do actually, yeah. I cook, but mainly really basic stuff. Like what? Roasted butternut squash with feta and all that stuff. Okay, that's good. I go to like the butchers and stuff and get amazing meats and stuff like that.

12:45I always ruin the amazing meats that I get from the butchers because I always kind of am impatient and I just turn the heat up really quickly. You should tell them how to... I ask them, I'm like, how do you cook it? And they'll tell me, it's incredible. But you, yeah, I mean, I remember you came over here. I loved it. You got trained by my husband, personal training. And then to celebrate your training, you brought over cakes for me and you to eat. Healthy cakes. Healthy cakes. They were heaven sent. I had one today. Ridiculous. Can you just explain what they are? They're called aphrodisiac cakes and it's like this gooey chocolate tart thing.

13:15but it's all made with cacao and raw and like coconut butter and stuff like that. It's great. Will you tell Sam what's on the menu tonight? I did turkey meatballs. That is not exciting Sam but it was because we were trying to do it lean. I like turkey. But actually they're really very light and they're almost as the Greek ones that we eat, the susulakia, you know the ones that are very very light. So they, and you make them, you put parmesan inside. So they do taste nice, I hope. Beautiful. So we did get some rice. We did get you cauliflower rice and courgette but I'm taking... Let's just go rice.

13:57Okay fine, thank you. I thought Mexico was in Europe until last year. I got a plane with my manager and he said, and I didn't have any hand luggage, and he was like, why have you not got any hand luggage? and I was like, it's just like a two hour plane journey to Mexico. And he was like, no Sam. What the fuck? Where do you think Mexico is? And I thought Mexico was like near Germany. Sam, hey! Because if you look at pictures, it looks very Spanish. Not that Spain is near Germany, but it looks very Spanish and everyone speaks Spanish and I just didn't realise it was so far away.

14:35So, had you packed correctly? Nope. Why are you and Mexico on a holiday? No, just gigs. Got a shock of my life, it's a 12 hour plane journey. Very different to Spain and Germany. Can I whip cream with a hand blender? Fuck's sake. I'm not fucking whipping it for like, I've got one of those bloody things, I just can't find them. Hold on mum. Mum, we need whipped cream, this is going to be an issue. Have you got a whisk? I don't mind having non-whipped cream. No, I mind. How do you whip cream? Have you got ice cream as well? This is an absolute mess mum. Oh hold on, hold on. I found a whisk. Okay well that could take 20 minutes.

15:17Oh hold on, no. That could take 20 minutes. Oh my god look at that whisk. Should I just try and do it for a bit? I mean how long is it going to take? A little while darling. Think of those arm muscles babe. No, haven't been able to work out babe. I just have one Pete Zampras like bloody bicep. Oh no mum it's already whipping. Good. Oh my god, I'm incredible! Into shape. It's not too late. I've overdone it. How can I even do that? Oh my god, that's whipped so quickly. What the fuck?

15:53We froze our guinea pigs by accident when we were kids. What? How did you freeze them? We left them in the garage and they froze. Shit! I know, but we thought the garage was warm. Yeah. And we put like padding and everything there, but they died. Oh my God. We had a nightmare as kids with pets. We had like, all our hamsters got eaten by the cat. Oh yeah, the gerbil, yeah. Jar Jar Binks was my first hamster, just got mutilated. Sorry, can you please, just because. Oh God. No, it's just because I feel like not enough people know how, well, I mean, a lot of people know you're funny, but like, I've never, no, it's going to be really embarrassing for you, but I don't care.

16:30Do your impersonation that I love you to do. Colin? Yeah. It's gonna sound weird with a cold. No, it's gonna sound amazing. You stupid fat cobbots! It's good, isn't it? You ruined it! My brother. Is it good? So good! Very good. My brother. Now you've got the role. Frodo Buggins. It's so good! I'm not gonna tell, we had the best Glastonbury of our lives, me just basically making him repeat that till 6am. That's my memory of you babe you know I'll never have to tell them. Pissing in a bush together. Oh my gosh. Do you remember that? When you were pith you were squatting in the bush at Glastonbury I was dead.

17:10Babe you were pissing right by me dad. Oh my god. But the my favourite. Your daughter. I don't know if you know this but the first time I ever met Jessie I was working in a bar in London and I took two days off of work to go to Bestival to perform with Disclosure for the first time. Is that when we met? Oh god I've done the wrong story then. No. Is that when we met at Bestival? first time we ever met and I and I was on the side of the stage and I'd taken a day off work and I was shitting myself because I'd never performed in front of anyone before and I had to sing latch and sing with like disclosure and I wasn't familiar with dance music I remember watching YouTube videos of you performing in Ibiza with Annie Mack before I'd even met you just trying to gauge like how I would perform and I stood side of stage in the best of all in the big top ten and I watched you do your set and then I my favorite my first memory of Jessie is she met me before she was like how are you and you were very sweet no no before I went on in festival we met outside and then I was performing Latch and my something was wrong with my in ears and I panicked because I'd never performed with in is before and I turned to my right and you're on the side of the stage and you ran around the back of the stage to the sound desk and you were helping me with my sound and we'd only just met and you literally saved me the people's princess they were just such a beautiful person oh babe no that i i was saying that my intro well i got the wrong bloody day i thought we met at um plan b when the uh okay but i just remember it was basically how our romance started that we would dance and vogue on the side of the stage to the disclosure.

18:48We knew the set off by heart. Something is boiling. Oh my god, yeah, it's incredible. And then it'd be like, when the fire starts to burn. Vogue. Yeah, and it was just so much fun. It was so, back then it was, there was an excitement, wasn't there? And there was an innocence about it. Yeah, it really was. There was a real scene and it was just like. None of us knew what we were doing. Oh, wow. You don't have to have all of it. Yes, I do. Okay, good. Oh, thank you. Okay, sorry, it's a bit trash pudding. Mum, please announce what we're eating. OK, so there's meringues with cream. Overwit, another batch of overwit cream.

19:25Did you make the meringue? No, I didn't. Oh my God. No, but they're not shop-lot. My friend Anne's Sweeney makes the best meringues. She basically made them. Yeah. Do you want berries? Yeah, please. That's enough then. OK. I'm never mad about summer fruits. Oh, I do. I don't really like fruit. I like them with yoghurt. That leads me to my next question. What is your comfort food? What's your go-to comfort food? Crunchy peanut butter with jam on a cinnamon bagel with loads of butter, toasted, with a glass of milk. Oh sweet, that's a nice one. Why is that? Does it take you back to your childhood?

20:06Yeah, my grandma used to... My grandma was the reason why I got fat. She used to feed me up, my mum and dad would be like, you need to stop eating, when I was like 13, because I was getting huge. and grandma would be like, he's young, he's growing, let him eat. And my parents were really strict, so they were like, he can't eat bad food. And I have a very fond memory of my grandma waking me up at three in the morning on my summer holidays and taking me downstairs and just sitting with me on the kitchen bench, just feeding me peanut butter and jam on a spoon. I love her. Yeah, she was amazing. Which grandma was it, your mum's mum?

20:41It was my mum's mum, yeah. She was incredible, incredible. When did she pass away? When I was 19. She got really sick and we thought she was going to die and we all said her goodbyes and then she had another year. Yeah, and she was amazing. She was smoking weed to the very end. Because she was in so much pain, they just gave her weed. So she was just high, basically, for the last year of her life. She had a fabulous time. She had a fabulous time. Was she a good cook? No. So she was just kind of the naughty influence, the bad influence? Yeah, just a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches and stuff. but she was such a...

21:17Oh, God. There's nothing better than having that grandma that it just gives you all the things you shouldn't have. And it's just amazing. It's like, oh, Gaga, my mum's grandma. My mum's mum. I mean, hers was mostly predominantly, like, gefilte fish, which I don't know, I had a really big thing for it. It was, like, fried fish. It's mixed fish, and you put it in balls, and you... It's a Jewish thing. Fish balls, really. some people would like it but it was good. What's your favourite thing to cook? I like doing Friday night dinner so I like doing chicken soup with matzo balls, chopped liver. I've never had that you know.

21:58I think everyone should have that. I know sorry we should have done it. No I've never had it. Friday night dinner is great. We'll come round to mum's for a Friday night dinner. Yeah we have we've had lots of people it's always fun so I like chopped liver have you ever had that in not in New York so it sounds horrible but it's chicken when you've been in New York never been never been but I know the history of it yeah chicken soup with matzo balls which are very light they're just like a dumpling they're delicious and then roast chicken often just smashing it yeah smashing it with other people's yeah but it's um okay Clever.

22:38Resourceful. Otter Lenghis Meringues. Have you ever seen them? Yeah, they'll do pistachio ones. I love carrot cake. Do you? Yeah, I'm obsessed with it. That's your go-to cake? Yeah, isn't it weird? Why? I love carrot cake and a Horlicks. I love Horlicks! Oh my God, I haven't had a Horlicks for about 20 years. In Whitley Bay, near Newcastle, they do this Horlicks by the seaside, which is just the best. Why do you go there? That's where my mum's family come from. But Whitley Bay is beautiful, but it's recently it's really run down I think they're putting more money into it and because it's such a beautiful seaside town So what you'd go there for family holidays?

23:17Yeah all the time like four or five times a year. And you'd have a Horlicks on the beach? Yeah, there's this old cafe called Rendezvous and they haven't changed a thing for like 50 years Oh, it's beautiful and they have this amazing Horlicks that they give you in those How do they do it differently or is it literally just like milk? It's more creamy and milky. Is hot bovril just a northern thing or is this a London thing? I'm never trying that. You get it at football. You get it at football, but I don't know if they do it at football in London. Do they do it at football in London? I don't think they do, you know.

23:49No, I think it's a little bit. They're more pucker pies here, aren't they? Yeah, pucker pies. I fucking hate football. Pucker pies. It's just like pies, crappy pies that are quite nice. Do you like football? Yeah. I used to adore it and I feel like I've neglected it since I've been a singer. I can't kind of have my attention on both things. I can't stand it. My dad used to force me to go since I was like five. Who does he support? I used to eat the pies and just look at the boys. Just play I didn't get punched in the face because everyone was so aggressive around me. Who does he support? Fulham.

24:20They're not even that bad. It's aggressive for me. I used to dread when they'd score because everyone would just go fucking mental and it would scare the shit out of me. I'm just sitting there with my pie just trying to chill time yeah yeah yeah you know they've taken it away I know I know but it's a beautiful ground it's the best ground if you're fed up and you go out for a hamburger you can see all the river yeah it's pretty beautiful yeah all my family work on the vegetable stores on North End Road. Oh do they? Yeah, market traders, they're proper cockney. Is this on your dad's side? Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating.

25:04They all still work there now. How did your mum and dad meet? They met in a pub in like Turnham Green. So then how did they end up out in Cambridge? Well my mum was working in the city, my dad was working with mentally handicapped people. They, I don't know actually, I think they just wanted to move into the countryside but then and they moved to a place called Linton and then I was born but I was a mistake. Really? Well not a mistake, is that the wrong word? I wasn't meant to be in terms of her being pregnant but yeah I'm the oldest but then I think when I was born it changed everything and then three years later my sister Lily was born and then they got a bigger house in the countryside and really set up there and then they broke up and now they're both...

25:52Mum lives back in London and Dad still lives there. And parents not together. No, but it's like... I always dread saying it because I think people think, oh, no, that's really bad, but they're best friends. It's really lovely. That's really rare. When they were splitting up, I remember being 18 and just being like, I won't accept, I won't allow this to happen if this is going to be a nasty thing. Like, we can do this and you can break up and still be friends and they're still really good friends.

26:27We were talking before but like you were saying something about your music and how you decided on the songs on this record, how did you do it? Meals Like This were a huge part of the making of this record because I'd go to the studio and for the whole year my aim was just to be there for my family. For three years it was about me all the time And I just wanted to be there for them For it to be about their issues Of what they were going through So that's what I did in the whole year and a half I was off I'd be in the studio during the day Finish at 5, 6 And just go and spend time with my family every night But that's how I shared the music with them as well We'd sit and have amazing meals And my mum's all drink some wine And then after a bit of wine I felt a bit confident to be able to play a few tunes And then I'd play the tunes And they'd give me their honest opinion and you'd see in their faces if it moved them or not.

27:17Does anybody else sing in your family? My mum could hold a tune, my sister Mabel couldn't sing, but not professionally or anything. So how did it happen that you became so kind of crazy about singing? When did you realise you got a voice? It's got the most amazing voice. Well I know but when did you realise that? Do you know what, it's so weird for me because I didn't, singing wasn't even something that I was just like I love this so much. It was more like, I remember just singing, being like eight years old, and I'd sing along to all my mum's songs in the car. Because it was a 20-minute drive from our house into town, because we lived in quite a remote countryside.

27:55So what would she be playing? Aretha, Whitney, Stevie, Shaka Khan. And I used to just belt away. And it was my dad who, he said, would you be up for doing singing lessons? And I was like, yeah, sure. I think I remember just being young and wanting to be good at something, because I wasn't very good in school or anything else. And I was like, yeah, of course. And Dad, really, I don't know why he did this. And I do think it's the main reason why I sing how I sing now, is he went to a local jazz singer who wasn't even a teacher. So clever. And he was like, would you teach my son how to sing? And she was like, I don't teach, but yeah, let's have a lesson.

28:35And she just... How did he know her? He just heard her voice in like local jazz bars. Oh my God, that's so clever. Yeah, and then my dad, and then she was like, just bring the music you want to sing and we'll sing it. And I remember being like 10, bringing Amy Winehouse, You Sent Me Flying. Which is probably not appropriate for a 10-year-old to sing. But I remember bringing the musical score and playing it, and she'd play the piano and I'd just sing. And that was my singing lessons for like four or five years, was just singing songs that I wanted to sing with her. I wished I'd done singing lessons like that.

29:08I did classical. I got into classical after, which is equally as important. It's important, but like... And I just wanted to do the jazz musical numbers, so like... But the classical gives you that support. Yeah, maybe, yeah. But you've got it too. You're all right. But that's from my musical theatre training, that's how I got the stomach support that you need. Did you want to be a musical theatre star? Or did you want to be a pop star? I had a really weird period when I was 14, 15 I was so I had my first manager when I was 11 bloody hell how'd you find that? it's a guy that wanted to help me out locally he was managing the jazz teacher well then your voice must have been pretty remarkable at that age so that was before your voice broke yeah I remember sitting with my mum crying one time because I was like I need to decide right now what I want to do and how old are you?

30:02because I was like I needed to do 14, 15 I was like, I need to decide what I want to do career-wise because I need to start work now. That's what I remember. And I used to sit and cry because I was like, I don't know what to choose. Do I attempt to be in musical theatre or do I try and be a pop singer? And then... And what did she say? My mum actually said, you should... She said, I feel like musical theatre would be harder for you because it's... Why? Just because, she said, because of how many people are in it. And I don't know. she said it would be harder but she also said she thought I should do musical theatre just because I was 14 years old and I was gay and I was living in a village with no gay people and I was going to school and there was no gay people in my school I think my mum just wanted me to be around gay people or just people of an artistic mindset like me so she wanted me to go to drama school but at the same time she was just like do whatever you feel did you get a place at drama school?

31:00no I never auditioned Because your best friend went to Arts Ed, didn't she? Yeah, and I went to Sylvia Plath's Saturday School. And I went four times. Sylvia Plath or Sylvia Young? Sylvia Plath. Sylvia Young. The most depressing Saturday School ever. Yeah, I can imagine ever. Reciting poetry. Singing the bell job. Right. But I went four times to Saturday School, to Sylvia Young. Was it horrible? It was great. Oh, you liked it. And the fourth time, the singing teacher. Who was in your class? It wasn't the proper school, so it was just like a Saturday thing. Was she a lot or something? No, no, no.

31:31She went to the main school. She was a Talioconti, wasn't she? Yeah, she was. Winehouse got kicked out of Sylvia Young. But I was... Is that why you wanted to go to Sylvia Young? No, no, no. I just wanted to go because I wanted to do musical theatre. But the singing teacher took interest in my voice and he asked me to start coming to his studio. And I started to go to his studio instead of the Saturday school and record covers. So people were hearing this voice and thinking, we can do something with this immediately. Before I met Sam and Jack, I know of him. Your managers. I had seven managers.

32:08I'd recorded one album when I was 15, was trying to get out of a record deal that my mum signed. I didn't even sign it. Uh-oh. And was already, yeah. So by the time I met Sam and Jack, I'd felt like I'd been working for years. I had been working for years. And I felt like it wasn't for me. What? Doing... Pop music. But that's mental. Just before I met them, I was 18, 19, just moved to London, and I was like, do you know what, I don't want this life. I was like, I'm going to travel. I said I'd give it one more year of trying and trying to write music that fits, but if it doesn't work out, I'm just going to try and be young and just travel.

32:52Wow, I didn't know that. And then it happened, yeah. And Latch. Lay Me Down first. Lay Me Down? Yeah. First day I met Jimmy, we wrote Lay Me Down. Oh, wow. And then Sam and Jack met me and said, would you be able to write with Disclosure? So Jimmy is Jimmy Napes, who is an amazing songwriter who you write most of your stuff with. Yeah. And Sam and Jack, your managers, also manage Jimmy. And they were managing Jimmy at the time, were they? Yes, yeah. And Disclosure. And Disclosure. And so they heard Lay Me Down and they were like, we're having a piece of this incredible play. Yeah, they played it to the boys and then I met Disclosure and the same damn it that we wrote Latch it's like a weird domino effect that first two years was just like it just all happened so quick but yeah so thankful it did wow have you written a lot with Jimmy this time yeah yeah he's got and he produces the record you went away from each other for a little bit and tried to kind of do your own thing there was a two month period where I had to walk away yeah and discover what I wanted to say as an artist you know I love Jimmy he's amazing but it's my album so I have to figure out what I've got to say and also me and Jimmy were writing the same song again and again because we listened to In The Lonely Hour too many times Yeah and then you're probably trying to second guess you're trying to make a stay with me round two not because you necessarily want it I can presume but you kind of go well that worked and people like it But then our distance after that two and three we came back and me and him went to Ireland together and we were just writing we wrote Midnight Train and Pray.

34:29You had this, I remember because Jimmy's wife was over here and you were having this kind of romantic getaway in Ireland you were drinking loads of whiskey. Yeah, Guinness Guinness, what were you reading? We just got to reconnect with each other and being, it was so important to just be in the middle of nowhere and we had no phone signal we just had to sit and chat and it was just amazing. He's such a vital part of what I do He really is.

35:00Do you want children? You do? Massively. Yeah, it's like my life plan. And I'll do it with or without a man. Would you do adoption or would you do...? I don't know. I think I might do both. Fair enough. Yeah, I don't know yet. When I went to Iraq, to the camps, it made me want to adopt. Yeah. Yeah, just because there's so many kids out there that just don't have families at home. Who got you involved with? Was it War Child? War Child, yeah. It was amazing. Amazing. Are you going to do more work with them? Yeah, 100%. They're incredible. But, yeah, I want kids so bad. I just feel like it's nature's way of reminding you that it's not about you.

35:39It's certainly a way of reminding you. It makes you, like, not selfish. Yeah. But I've never had a kid that you two have, so I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It's a thing I ever did in my life. Yeah. Without doubt. I mean, it's been wild this year, but it's also pretty amazing. Yeah. That's the best thing. Yeah, but also you've got so many stages to go through. I know. Are you excited for when you can just sit and have a glass of wine with her? What, with her? Yeah. I have a glass of wine with her when she's in the bath, I'm having wine. Yeah, don't worry, it's already started. But when you can sit and talk about life and like...

36:13I know, I can't wait for her to start talking actually. I think that's like... Yeah, I think she's going to be a great talk... And she's quite funny. She's quite entertaining. and she goes for the laugh which is quite good fun which is going to be wonderful no it's going to be it's going to be a mad year you're not doing festivals no which I'm a bit upset about actually I wanted to do them well would you do them the year after maybe but it depends how long how long it goes on how long did the last one go like two and a half years yeah yeah too long or not it felt too long but it was longer because of the Bond thing but it's I don't know I don't know the music It's changed so much.

36:51I know. Going into it, like, it's crazy how much has changed in three years. Streaming. I know. It's mad, like, and I don't know. It's weird, I was talking to John Mayer the other day. He said something amazing to me. I fancy him so much. He's beautiful. But he said something amazing to me which will stay with me forever. He was like, he said, we make red T-shirts. Everyone's making blue T-shirts right now. Don't make bad blue T-shirts. carry on making good red t-shirts and camp out. And it's so true. That's such a good idea. Yeah, it's true. I think it's so true. Because I just think in the climate of music right now, people aren't really listening to singer-songwriters.

37:28I'm talking about more just like the climate of pop music when you're performing at award shows and stuff. It's just, I feel like the odd one out a little bit sometimes. We're both kind of waiting. I mean, I think we know your album's going to do all right. But it's just this weird period before the album comes out where you're just in this thresh up, it's just slightly unnerving. When really all you want to do is play the gigs. Completely. Once it's out, it'll be beautiful and fun. It's just the hype that is a lot, isn't it? It must be hard for you at the moment. It's fine. It's fine. You're dealing with it really well.

38:03I feel really, I feel really chilled. You seem really relaxed. I think it's the non-drinking that helps. Really? Yeah. But you're not a massive drinker. No, but I think before, when something good would happen, I'd go out and celebrate, and then it just made everything more, like oh my god oh my god oh my god whereas now I just go to hotel room and chill and kind of wind down and I don't know I'm not still watching Bake Off at eight o 'clock on a Tuesday whilst promoting a record is great

38:33right back to the food death row we haven't asked this one what's your final meal fish and chips from large fish and chips from a legit like really good seaside fish and chips shop. Okay fine. But fish and chips with a pickled onion, a battered sausage, bread and butter, the shop, bread and butter and a savoy for the walk.

39:01So you're not even going starter? No just like the biggest main meal. You just go like three meat maids. Basically everything that's in the fish and chip shop. Is that like one of your favorite things? Yeah. When do you have it? And curry sauce. I forgot. When do you have that? Do you have it a lot? no but it's one of those it's quite a hard one to digest you eat it and then you have to open your buttons and just like lay back and roll around it's like Christmas dinner on Christmas dinners do you have to excuse yourself and lay on the bed for a minute no I lay on the sofa and then I rev myself up for the turkey sandwich really?

39:34that I'll eat whilst watching TV like I don't give up I knock myself out I have to go and lay down and I roll around in pain like a buffalo and then come back down and do it again. Who's cooking Christmas? We change, we alternate between mum and dad. So last year was dad's Christmas, which is great. And will your mum go? We see mum Boxing Day. Oh, OK. So we just change it. So we have mum Christmas this year, which is great. And she's great. That'd be better food. Yeah. Will you cook anything? No. No, mum loves doing it. But I think we might do something for Boxing Day at my house with my dad and his family and stuff, which would be nice.

40:16Right, okay, last question. As this is called table manners, what table manners do you require or what really pisses you off at the dinner table when people are doing certain things? Do you know what? My mum was huge on table manners. Really? Huge, yeah. It was her big thing as kids.

40:39She... Like, what would she make you do? Because my mum used to always say... I hated it when you'd eat and then hold your cutlery up like that when you're talking. So you'd have to put your cutlery down. Put your cutlery down when you're eating. I hate when people rush and just have their head in it. That's me. Other than that, nothing. For me, sitting around a table eating dinner is about taking your time, conversation, sharing food, I think. Me too. I share too much. I take all the food before everybody can share it. That's the problem. I'm like grown for my team in the restaurants. I'm always like, start us to share whenever we go anywhere because...

41:16Me too. I don't see the point of being in an amazing restaurant and not experiencing the same thing together. Agreed. The only thing is if you share with Gessie, she's eaten it. I don't understand why people in curry places get their own mane. Oh, weird. I'm like, fuck you. Weird. Me too, I get aggressive. Thanks so much for being on this. I should be. It's so nice. It's just nice to see you, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. No, I'm really, really happy we got to chat. Me too. And thank you so much for being on Table Manners. Thank you for having me. Thank you for cooking. Pleasure, darling. Thank you.

41:49We'll do Friday night dinner next time. Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah.

42:06Oh, yeah, yeah. and that was it that was second helpings uh with sam smith thank you to sam for coming on the podcast i feel like they are due coming back on i think so i wonder what they're eating nowadays thank you for listening and during this summer we will be giving you more of these second helpings of brilliant guests that we've had on table manners hope you enjoy them if you fancy chatting about these episodes these wonderful divine guests send an email into hello at table manners podcast and we'll see you next week