Second Helpings - Stanley Tucci

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1:35Hello and welcome to Second Helpings. And this week we have, well, the much-loved. Much-loved and such a fabulous guest. The gorgeous Stanley Tucci. Yeah, he was the season opener for our season 12 in October 2021. And we recorded it just after your 70th party, Mum. So it must have been late October. Stanley Tucci is Hollywood royalty. he's in Hunger Games Devil Wears Prada Conclave Julie and Julia he'd also just won an Emmy for Searching for Italy and his memoir had just come out Taste and I think he's done another one since Mum what did you make? I made Tagliata I made something simple because Stani doesn't like spice and so I made Tagliata and I can't remember what I served it with Salsa Verde roasted asparagus with tomatoes and pine nuts and then I think I think I made a polenta cake with orange.

2:33But I had forgotten the orange that you wanted me to bring for the Mascarpone, so we had to borrow one from next door. What I remember most about that occasion was drinking at least two bottles of wine. Yes, he rivaled Yanis from Foles on getting through the wine. And having fun. Here he is, Stanley Tucci, coming up in the second helpings.

3:01Cheers. Cheers. What a pleasure. Stanley, thank you for being here. Thank you. Well, I hope the food's up to snuff. Come on. You guys have cooked for... Come on. Are you kidding? You're like... But I've heard that. The queens of food. This is an interesting taste. Is it bad? Is it bad? Did Stanley bring this? No, I didn't. Oh, good, because I was about to be like, I'm not going to say that. It's just interesting. It's not like... It's very dry. What do you think? Oh, no, you're both making me... What, 12 quid a bottle? She really pushed the boat out for you, Stanley. That's weird. Okay, let's just...

3:34Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. No, I'm glad that, like... Can we have this wine? Yeah. Have anything but that rose? No. I have got some red to have. Do you want me to crack it open? Yeah. Yeah. I want you to sit still. Do you live near each other? Yes. Near enough. Near enough, yeah. Yeah, that's good. I live in South East London Okay And this is South West London Okay Where do you live? South West Barnes Oh nice Love Barnes Yeah I love it How long have you been there? Eight years I'm not Like You're kind of a Londoner now Completely Can't you tell by my Accent? Do you just Do you miss The States?

4:20I miss my family Yeah I miss my parents I haven't seen my parents For almost two years And that is And I used to live when I used to live because of the pandemic. But I used to live, my parents were still living in the house that I grew up in when I moved from Westchester, New York, and I was living 10 minutes away. So it was, I even see them all the time. Is that quite a common Italian thing to do, to not fly too far from the nest? Not as much anymore, but the first generations, like my parents, well, my grandparents came over, but yeah, my parents never lived too far away from them. And then I ended up not living too far away from my parents.

5:00Let's try this one. No, I know I like this. Do you know what? You know you like this. Yeah, I love it. Oh, so you were just giving me the cheap stuff. Because you were saving this for yourself for after the podcast. Hey, listen. Sammy, I went over£12 for me as a lot, and it was reduced from£15. Really? Yeah. Really, you shouldn't have. Because nobody was buying it. I almost poured it right into my microphone. You're right, exactly. Oh, my God. No, I love this one. You like this one? Yeah. Let's hope it's a bit better. Yeah, I like it. Now you're going to have to say you like this one too. Actually, I feel like we're getting on that you'll be like, you know what, I'm not sure about it.

5:36No, this is nice. Yeah. No, it's not really heavy enough. No. But it's fine. Perfect. Yeah, for what we need. Not too woody. Are you a wine connoisseur? Probably is. He's just bought wine for us, darling. I mean, he bought two lovely parcels. I haven't even opened them. They are nice bags. Yeah, the wine is just... But we appreciate it. No, I'm not a wine connoisseur by any means. I only know what I like. And I don't go for the big fancy sort of stuff. I always try to find a bargain. Do you not like Italian wines? No, no, I love Italian wines. Primitivo. Primitivo is delicious. I'm happy. And I really love basically any of the wines from Piemonte, like that Lange area where the Barbaresco and the Barolo and all that sort of.

6:20Barolo. Yeah, all that. It's so gorgeous. It doesn't have to be like the really expensive ones or anything. It's just... Do you go on holiday in Italy? When we... Yes, we used to before this happened. Where's your favorite place? That's very hard to say. I don't know. Do you go seaside or... Sometimes. Sometimes. Or the Tuscan Hills? Sometimes. Wherever. You know, we rent different places different times. You know, I really do like up north a lot. Like I love Lake Como and I just think that's so beautiful. Well, that's where you met your wife. That's where I met my wife. If I could live someplace.

6:56Beyond the edge of Blake Coleman. Yeah, if I could have another something. Can I grab a little of that ice over there? Yeah, of course. So, you have a TV programme that has just come out. Yes. Searching for Italy. Yes. And some friends of mine, such as Bella Mackey, who listens to the podcast, was so in love with this programme. She said, I can't tell you anything about this because it's not out yet. So can you tell us about Searching for Italy? Yes, I can. Searching for Italy is this... CNN came to me about two and a half years ago and they said, do you have any ideas for a show? And I said, yes, I have three different ideas.

7:36One was about cancer, and I saw their eyes glaze over. And then one was about refugees and food. And then there was this one. And this is an idea that I've had for a really long time, which is breaking down Italy region by region and the food and why that food is the way it is. But also to sort of, in a way, sort of hopes of clarifying what Italian food is, which is it can't really be clarified. The only thing that can be clarified is that it's from really simple ingredients and it basically is cucina povita. It's like all poor food. But the influences over the centuries and millennia are profound because of where it's situated geographically.

8:23So if you think about it, the most southern point in Italy is on the island of Lampedusa. That's 90 miles away from the coast of North Africa. The highest point, farthest northern point, has a German name, and you're in the Alps. So everything in between is a combination of, strangely, both of those things. And the influences from the Arab world, from Africa, from Spain, from Germany, from Austria, from France, from the Baltics. It's just, it's incredible. So what would be a dish in Lampedusa that you really feel the African influence? Something like, I think they call it beka fiko, which is like, you'd have pine nuts, you'd have orange in there, you'd have raisins.

9:10and it's made with these tiny little fish and breadcrumbs. Oh, my goodness. That's delicious. Yeah, it's really cool. And then up north in like Lombardy, right, which is where, you know, Lake Como, farther north into the Alps, you'll have a dish called pizzokuri, which is all buckwheat noodles. You very seldom see a tomato or an eggplant or anything like that. And you'll have buckwheat noodles with this special kind of cheese that's just from cows from that area, cabbage, lots of butter, garlic, and potatoes. So this program takes you, basically, you went on a food expedition all around Italy.

9:54The best job in the world, right? Yes, but more tiring than I thought it was going to. Yeah, yeah, I have to say. Who did you go with? Did you go with your wife? She came a couple of times, so she's in a couple of the episodes, and then we're going to go back and do more. But we, again, we just break it down region by region. But it's much, it was much harder than I thought. Do you speak the lingo? I do a bit, yeah. Enough to sound authentic? Yes, yes. Yes, enough to get by. Yeah. So I lived in Italy when I was a kid for a year. But that was, I was 12. Was that your parents making you go for a summer?

10:26No, no, that was my dad went to, my dad studied at the academia for a year. And so this is 1972, 73, I was 12. and he studied for a year and I went right into an Italian school. So within two months I spoke. I had to speak. That must have been quite daunting, right? I don't know. I don't remember it as being daunting. I remember it as being much easier than I thought. I still couldn't do maths, but I could speak another language. And so how old were you? Twelve. Is that why your lunchboxes changed to being fabulous? Is that why what? Your lunchboxes. I read in your book, So your book Taste, I'm enjoying it so much.

11:06It's so beautiful. And there was this moment, we always ask our guests, well, actually, we kind of sometimes forget because we drink so much wine, but we asked what their lunchbox was at school. And you do a whole week of lunchbox options that your mother used to give you. Can you go through some of these options? Sure, yeah. Because the food was so bad, right? In America. At school. Oh, right. In any school, probably anywhere in the world. Let's face it. But you were, and my parents didn't buy it. It wasn't worth the money to buy it. And so we would have, whatever I had for lunch was usually what was left over from dinner the night before.

11:45So if we had eggplant parmigiana. Oh, my favorite thing on earth. Then I would have that, but as a sandwich. So within a sandwich. Did you resent your mum for that? Because was it that thing that yours were quite fragrant and everyone else had like cheese and ham? Your mate had marshmallow fluff. Yeah, fluffernutter. Yeah. Which, what is that? You know, what even is it? Every now and again, I would swap with him. But I would feel guilty, and then I would wait another few months. Guilty because you loved your mum so much. Yes. Are you Catholic? Huh? Are you Catholic? Well, I was. Okay. Yeah. God, I'd swap the aubergine parmesan.

12:19I know. Wow. So we'd have that, and then if we had, like, veal cutlets. So in the 1960s, right? Oh, yeah, nice veal cutlets. The 1960s, veal was cheap. Yeah. Right? You could get veal. Now it's like, I made veal the other night. You know, I had to take out another mortgage. Yeah. with all the kids. But if you, you know, you should have a veal cutlet sandwich one day, the eggplant parmigiano. My mother would make almost like a frittata. She'd make just, at the end of the week, she would make just like sautéed peppers, potatoes, scrambled eggs and you put that on like a half a loaf of Italian bread.

12:52That was amazing. These were amazing. But did you appreciate it at the time? I did, I did. And then you have moments where you go like, I just want to be like all of the other Americans. You know what I mean? Yeah, Bart or Biff or, you know, Sandy, you know. But, yeah, but then I was like, this is so fucking good, you know. But you actually, it's really funny because I had a dream of Bart. Absolutely. Do you mind? I love it. He wants to get into the mirror of our mom. Come on. Let me just... So cute, darling. It's really interesting reading your book because you celebrate your mother's cooking and you say that you...

13:33Just like you, Jess. Well, actually, I do celebrate your cooking. But is that how it started? Yeah, and actually I wrote my own kind of food memoir. Do you know you can call it a foudoir? How do you feel about that? Oh, I like it. It sounds really French. It sounds like a loo. It sounds even more French. I mean, it sounds a bit more kind of... Collabagy a bit. So anyway, I call mine a food memoir, but mine's very much about kind of my Jewish upbringing. and mum's food and her always having food on the table. And you marvel at your mum doing that too. There was always a home-cooked meal on the table every night.

14:06And you and your sisters liked different bits and bobs. I loved what she said about the neighbour. Please tell everyone what she'd say. Oh, she'd say, what are we having for dinner? And she'd say something like pork chops, which I hated. I don't know why I hated them, but I hated them. I'd go, really? why don't you go over and see what the neighbours are having because the neighbours wasn't that fabulous oh no it was horrible there was no one none of my friends parents now this is suburbia but pretty kind of more rural a little more rural suburbia than it is now Westchester New York about 60 miles north of the city I saw Barry White sing at the Westchester whatever it is the biggest place on earth Really?

14:54Yeah, I was in New York with my brother. The Westchester, yeah, what's it called? Yeah, it was some big kind of... Arts thing or something. Yeah, my parents went and saw Frank Sinatra. I saw Barry White there and it was wonderful. Really? And I had to go on a train. It was quite a bit of a way, but I was desperate to see him. Was he living in New York, your brother? Yeah, my brother lived in New York for a little while and I went when I was, I must have been 21, 22. Right. And we lived quite near Grand Central Station. Oh, wow. He was in an apartment there, and I saw Barry White was playing, and I was there for six weeks, and I just thought, I'm going, so I went.

15:31Oh, yeah, you just get to train up. It was like near White Plains or Rye. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was great. Yeah. Westchester County. Westchester County, yeah. Yeah. Which is huge. It's huge, isn't it? It's huge. Yeah. As soon as you come out of the Bronx, you're in Westchester County. So do people, it's like moving from London to Windsor or to something. Yeah, exactly. To a bit more rural. A bit farther, but yeah. Yeah. What I loved about the recipes in your book were, you know, you talk about how to make a pomodoro or your ragu, the family's ragu, but there was something so simple about it, yet, and not, I believe every dish is so satisfying and beautiful, and it reminds what you said about Italian cooking, the simplicity of it, but like when done well.

16:19Yeah. Did your mother like cooking? She says, and I wrote this in the book, that she said she couldn't cook, she didn't know how to boil water when she met my father. I still don't believe that to this day. Her mother was an amazing cook. You know, it's just a sort of, one, you have to have an innate talent for it, right? But I think that for the most part, the people of Italy have that talent more than almost any other country. So there was just an understanding of taste. There was an understanding of flavor, but there was also an understanding of the genesis of the vegetable or the meat or the whatever.

17:02Where did it come from? Why did it come from there? What do you do with it? How do you make sure that nothing goes to waste? And then how many different things can you make out of that that tastes good? That's the lesson. And I don't even think, as a kid, they knew my mother or her sisters knew that they were learning that. You just learned it. It was just a part of you. And then you're eating the food, and you know what it's supposed to taste like. And then when you go out into the world and you start to taste things, you kind of go, ooh, what's that? That doesn't taste like blah, blah, blah.

17:38Should we put the... I'm going to do it now. Okay. Am I... No, so... We're having tagliata. Tagliata? Yeah. Si. Is that okay? Si perfect. Was this a silly thing to do because we're cooking tagliata for an Italian? Why? I don't know. I'm kind of slightly nervous about this. Do we cook together? How do we do it? I mean, you can if you want. Mum was just going to whack it on because it takes such a short time. Yeah, it's quick. Yeah. Yeah, whatever you want. And I'm going to keep on asking you some questions so we don't... Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Yes. Well, unless you want to cook. No, no, no. Are you a bit of a backseat driver in the kitchen, Stanley?

18:09Do you need to oversee mum's tagliata? No, no, no. No. Do you need to oversee Mum's Tagliata, which sounds so dirty? No, I don't. I don't need to oversee her Tagliata. Are you sure? Yes, I'm positive. Listen, if you feel like she's not doing something right, like the roast potatoes, you can go over there. He's so appalled by the way we speak to her. I thought, don't Italians speak to each other like this too? Constantly. Okay, fine. Constantly. Okay, fine. Yeah. But maybe you've been with a British woman for too long now that you've been so polite to each other. Well, I'm not, but she is. Sometimes if I say things, and she'll say something, and I'll go like, well, I don't know.

18:47Maybe the guy went over to the blah, blah, blah. She goes, why are you yelling at me? There's no need to take that tone. I'm like, I wasn't yelling at you. She goes, why are you so upset? I go, I'm not upset. I'm just telling you that, I don't know. I don't know. The guy, I don't know why the guy did that. You know, something. And then it becomes a sort of conversation about, were you actually upset? It's like, no, I wasn't upset. Well, what is upset? Do you know what I mean? There's no question a lot of it is cultural. So listen, I need to know about this Meryl Streep situation with the, how do you say?

19:25Undo it. Undo it. Undo it. Undo it. Yeah, cool. Yeah. That too. So that. Please paint the picture. Because we've had a similar story with another person in this podcast. Oh. Roisin Murphy, brilliant singer. Yeah, yeah. Tried this thing. So now people may not listen to that episode. The same thing. Yeah. Where? And she had a similar reaction. She tried it in Paris, I think. Yeah. It's a very common reaction. So can you explain for people that haven't heard of it? So Andrea is made in Normandy. And it's basically like a kind of a sausage. However, it's filled with entrails. So it's not filled with meat.

20:11So a sausage is an entrail, right, an intestine filled with meat and spices, whatever. This is just like an entrail filled with entrails. And they're strongly spiced. I don't even know how much they're really cooked. I don't quite know. They're cleaned. I think they're maybe boiled. I don't know exactly. But they'll also use, well, we didn't know. So we thought, okay, so it'll use like the colon of the animal. I mean, like everything you don't, you just think, I don't want to eat that. It's in there. Whatever you think. Don't get a noise. Okay. All right. Whatever you think you don't want to eat of an animal will be in there.

21:01Okay. So, and it's a delicacy. And sometimes they're quite big. I mean, they'll literally be, I mean, obviously there's a podcast, you can't, but they're big. So, Marilyn, I said, oh, Marilyn, they have andouillette. Do you think she, she goes, oh, yeah, I go, have you ever tried it? She goes, no. Did you know what you were doing? No, I had no idea. Okay, so it wasn't like a trick. No, I thought it was like andouille sausage, which is a little sausage that's really delicious. You know, maybe slightly spicy, maybe, you know, but delicious. and I thought andouillette et even smaller make even smaller so tiny little sausages sweet little lovely little maybe spicy things is that what yeah so she goes I go have you try one she goes no I go should we try she goes yeah she goes I love sausage love andouillette me too so she ordered it I ordered it Chris Messina ordered it and Meryl's brother Dana ordered it and you're you're filming what do you No, we're not filming.

22:05No, we're doing a press junket. We're on our way to do a press junket in Paris. We went to the Deauville Film Festival. Right. Which is a really amazing... To promote Julia and Julia, which is an amazing festival that is so much fun and beautiful, and the food there is incredible, and you have the incredible wines, and you have Calvados because of the Normandy area, and that morning we went to the D-Day beaches, and we had a tour of that, and it was just kind of your dream. then you're going to Paris you're going to do an incredible you know press tour for a movie that you actually like which doesn't always happen and you're going to be with your friends and you're going to eat and you're going to have a good time and you're with Meryl Streep and you're with Meryl she is great she's the loveliest person I mean incredibly generous person and like a very dear she's a devoted friend that's really sweet.

23:04She's amazing. All right, so we go, all right, we'll have this. So we have some wine. We have our little appetizers. So our mains come, which is the andriette. And basically, and this is what I wrote in the book, what is put before us, I can only say it resembled a horse cock.

23:27And I looked at it, and I thought, it doesn't even really look like it's not only does it look like a horse cock but it looks like an uncooked horse cock. Oh, delicious. So we both sort of looked at each other and I went, wow, that's not what I expected. She goes, no, it looks like a horse cock. So we tasted it and needless to say I almost vomited. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, it was that. As soon as it just touched my tongue, I almost threw up. Her brother took one huge bite, swallowed it, took another bite, and then looked at me like he was ashen. Meryl tasted it, and she said, Oh, well, it does have a bit of the barnyard about it.

24:19And needless to say, then the owner comes over, and he looks at us, and he goes, so the Henriette we go oh no it's really great it's just not what we expected you know it's just not it's a little like you know it's different than others we've had you know you're just lying and lying trying to was he offended? not at all not like a Parisian no he goes okay would you like anything else and we said yeah can we just have four omelets

24:53so the studio had to pay for our mistake Oh, my God. But it wasn't, I mean, it was really horrible. I'm very adventurous when it comes to food, but I'm sorry. But I have to say, if you ever get the chance, you have to. Do not try it. No, do not try it, but you have to at least see it and smell it. Okay. Not when you're pregnant. No. Yeah, that would be not good. But because it is unlike anything. And just look up the Wikipedia. I put the Wikipedia definition in the book because it's a really funny. description of it. I will. Now, I want to know, because you are adventurous, but you can't eat spice, can you?

25:33No, I can't now. Was that something that happened? I never cared for spice, but since I had treatments, I haven't been able to eat spice. Do you feel like, do you miss any dishes? No, I like a little bit of pepperoncino every now and again, but I never was a really spicy, I was never interested in spice that much. I mean, every now and again, a little chorizo or something, but I never, I would like sometimes like a Thai curry, you know, not, but not mild, but mild. Could you not even have a green curry? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, right. No. That's like somebody takes a blowtorch to your mouth. Oh, really?

26:12It's the, if you have radiation, and I had very high dose radiation, because I had a tumor in the back of my, base of my tongue, you, it destroys so much. your soft tissue, it destroys your taste buds, it destroys your saliva, it destroys, and it takes a very, very long time to come back. And it burns out your nerves. So because those nerves are burned, this is what I was told, that anything that touches them is like hypersensitive. And you'd think it'd sort of be the opposite. You'd think they'd be dulled, but in fact, the opposite is true. So a doctor suggested to me a little while ago that I take a little Tabasco sauce, I'm not kidding and put it in water and drink it he said because what that's going to do is that's going to help them it'll help them work again and how did it feel i haven't done it you haven't done no i'm too afraid right yeah

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28:52I really was fascinated by, well, it makes a lot of sense, but you're very prescriptive about, and I now probably understand that most Italians are the same, about which pasta goes with which sauce. I've been doing it wrong. Have you? Well, I think so. No, I wasn't here. But like it really gets your goat. Yeah, it gets my goat. What's the worst thing that somebody could do though? Cutting the spaghetti. It's just an absolute no-no. No, no, no. Unless you don't have teeth. Or you're a toddler. Yeah, or you're a toddler, yeah. But even then it's just fun to watch a toddler eat spaghetti. My son usually chokes on it because he's such a greedy bugger that he kind of doesn't chew it.

29:45So then he's got all these things and then it's kind of like he's got like... He's like Medusa. Yeah, exactly. So would you say that that's like... I guess that's quite a kind of... It's an Italian table manner that you don't appreciate to see. No, it's egregious. I mean, you just don't... You just don't do that. I saw somebody do it recently and I was like... I had to do everything I could to restrain myself. No, it's just weird. And will you never go out for dinner with them again? Or just not in Italian with them? Yeah, I can't, yeah. I'll give them a piece of steak. I really, I kind of... It's tough.

30:24It's like people rinsing off their pasta after you cook it. Hold on, what, to like cool it down? I don't know. Why do people rinse it? I have no idea. That is a really good point. A lot of people do it. They cook the pasta, they put it into the colander, then they run cold water on it. And you're like, why would you do that? You basically just took all of that beautiful starch, that gluten, all that stuff, and you just got rid of it. That's a very good point. Yeah, it's weird. Have you found that more people have offended you since you've come to old Blighty with how they eat pasta? No, no, no.

31:00Not at all. Actually, no. No, not at all. But you've been living in London. Yeah. Or the UK for eight years, did you say? Where are some of... I mean, I don't want to give away the whole book, but where are some of your absolute favourite places to eat? Oh, my God, there are so many. Okay, but, like, you know, the one that you booked as soon as you were allowed out of lockdown. Riva, which is in Barnes. Amazing. Really? Yeah, amazing. A lot of the chefs go there. Okay. And they love Mr. Riva, who runs it. Giorgio Locatelli's restaurant. That's delicious. Bocca del Lupo, fantastic. In Soho. um francesco matze's restaurant sartoria so if you are going out do you go for italian quite a lot because i guess quite a lot of restaurants are off you know limits to you now yeah a little bit yeah a japanese i love japanese food i love chinese food i mean i can't really go to an indian restaurant now i can't go to a thai restaurant now as much as i'd like to and even Japanese is hard because sushi rice has vinegar in it and I can't really eat vinegar that much now because it's so stringent.

32:13When you have the treatment I mean so it's in the back of your tongue. Yes. I mean that for somebody that I mean wants to to live but also likes food. Yeah. Were you terrified that I was terrified. I was terrified. I thought I was never ever going to be able to do what I'm doing right now. Sit here and have a glass of wine and talk to you. And your mother would be cooking a steak. You were the only two I thought of. That was us. We got you through it. I thought I'd never be able to do this again. It was so bad and it lasted for months. I had a feeding tube and I mean I couldn't eat orally for months.

32:55And then eventually when I did it was it was very slow going. I still like certain things. I can't really eat fruit that much. It tastes odd to me and it sort of hurts a bit. So yeah, I was really frightened. And it was very depressing. And there's no question I suffered from depression during it. And yeah, during the treatment, after the treatment, it was really hard. Is that why you've potentially, I mean, you've made this TV show. you've written this book maybe you were writing the book before you got the treatment but you're celebrating food in so many different yeah i think it's spaces i think it's really just honestly it's coincidental um i had written i had a bunch of stuff written down about food before i never intended to write a memoir i never thought my life certainly would ever be worthy of a memoir I'm still not sure but because it's through the prism of food then I do have something to say I think about it honestly I'm loving it so it's brilliant but yeah I was writing stuff because I always wanted to write a little book about just little essays about food so it would be just sort of you know a collection of little food essays little stories and maybe some recipes a few sketches stuff like that I thought that would be cool I never expected it to take this you know to turn into this but also the show it's a show that I had thought about 12 15 years ago almost and I had made notes about it and came up with this sort of like little mini treatment for it and then they came to me and they said what would you like to do and then I thought oh my god really and I said this and they went you saw their eyes light up the CNN people, you just saw their eyes light up and go, and like almost immediately it was okay Would you do another series?

35:04Yeah, we're doing more So will you go to other countries? No, and we talked about that, but I don't know that I'm the right person to go to other countries, it was interesting, somebody sent me a review in The Guardian and The Guardian review of our show was amazing, it was really lovely and the guy said, but if he were to go to France or blah blah blah whatever he said it wouldn't be the same because there's a connection and that's what I had said I don't feel that it's my job to go to to France or to Scandinavia or to China or to whatever first of all I would never see my family second of all I don't have a connection to those places I have a connection to Italy but what we are going to do uh we have now we're planning spin-offs of the show that I'll produce.

35:55Oh my god, how gorgeous is that? That I'll produce and then with the same production company and with CNN, we'll spin this off and start to do. We'll do Spain, we'll do Italy. We'll do France. With people who are like me, food obsessed. Maybe they're actors, maybe they're whatever. Jesus. Jesus. Sorry. Yeah. Jesus. Do we swear more than your family swear? No. Okay, fine. That's good to know. No. So that's the plan. Because I think it's really important that you have a connection to that country. Thank you so much. I think you have to. Thank you, Mom. This looks really sweet. Wow, this is an absolutely gorgeous saliata.

36:44I hope so. Would you like some more wine? Because you're a bit empty. Yes, I'll do. Good. I like saliata. Do you want some red wine? I'm okay right now. This is great. Should I pass you some asparagus? Sure. Jesse, make sure you get the tomatoes in. Look at how beautiful that is. Oh, guys, this is gorgeous. Are you a good cook? Sometimes. So which recipe did your mother pass on to you that you feel like you were talking about that with saying it just kind of becomes inbuilt in you? There's a lot of them. I mean, like, to me, the eggplant parmigiana is just one of the greatest things ever. The lasagna bolognese is one of the greatest things ever.

37:23Steak oregano is amazing. Chicken ala caccia torre. Rabbit stew. Veal stew. Which one is the one? If we were coming over to yours and you were like, Lenny and Jesse are coming over, I'm going to pull out the big guns. Which one are you going to do? Lasagna bolognese. Really? Yeah. Oh, Jesse, we never do lasagna. It's really, really hard to make. Well, that's why we don't do it, Mum. Because Stanley's not there. Well, no, because it's really hard to make. Why is it so hard to make? Is it... Because you've got to make the pasta. It has to be the right... Well, you make the pasta. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

37:59I feel fine. Fair enough. Yeah. What would be your last supper? Are you going to return to your mother's kitchen? Or are you going to go somewhere else? No. Why would I go anywhere else? Jesse, take note. I think you have to... I think you have to... You know, it's comfort food, isn't it? So what would be... Actually, I think aubergine parmigiana is going on my desert island meal. Don't bloody steal his island. I'm about to say that. You've reminded me how it's delicious. I'm going to make you some. I'm going to come. I'm going to make you some. So, starter. What are we doing? A starter's hard, but I almost feel like I want to say something like a starter that I had at Scott's.

38:45You know the restaurant Scott's? which was razor clams with a little bit of maybe it was It's a vongolet Is it a vongolet? No, no, a razor clam Oh, I hate those I don't know why I don't like them Sometimes they can be a bit gritty They're chewy No, no, no, that's because They haven't been cooked properly They've been overcooked That's why, you have to cook them really fast I think a razor clam they had like olive oil and they had like maybe a little bit of pancetta or a little bit of prosciutto or something. I mean, they were like... Heaven. Absolutely delicious. Okay, that's your starter. Delicious.

39:25Then probably as a main, lasagna bolognese. Made by you or your mother? My mother. Not by me. Okay. No. Yeah. And then what? Pud. Dessert. You a big pud man? No. I probably just have another helping of lasagna bullion or a cheese plate yeah a cheese plate after the lasagna you're taking it to sit I know but I'm thinking about it and then drink well to begin because you like a cocky tea don't you what's a cocky tea cocktail oh me too which one's yours well I have a martini dirty? Dirty? No. Clean? Very clean. Yeah. I'd like to have a really beautiful gin or vodka martini. Do the James Bond people know that you're partial to the odd...

40:23I think they're casting the new James Bond. I know. Listen, listen. I know, I know. I'm just, you know, 30 years too old and too short and bald. So not. But the... Yes, that. and then I'd have the martini and then with the Bolognese I'd have a little bit of white wine in between and then you'd have a proper like a big glass of red yeah a nice glass of red something of real substance and then with the cheese plate with the cheese plate I'd have the Barolo with the Bolognese I'd have something I don't know what like something a Nebbiolo grape I don't think you drink, I don't think you're a big drinker.

41:08What are you talking about? He's paired every meal with a drink and he's drunk a bottle of wine with you in bloody hour. He's ready for the next one. That's a little slow. I think that's a little slow. So, okay. Do you like karaoke? I bet you don't. I don't, I'm, I... Would you if you had to? If Meryl said, do a duet with us. No. You wouldn't? No, no, she has a beautiful voice. Has she? Yeah, gorgeous. She didn't sound like it in Florence. Oh, my God! What's her name? Who? I've never seen she didn't sound like it in Mamma Mia. No, the Florence thing. What? Correct? No, the one with Hugh Grant.

41:48Well, no, that was the point, that she didn't have enough. Shit, what are you having? What is it? You had a piece of potato. It's gone. No, it's gone. It was a piece of potato. This is great. A lot of highlighting glow for you, but no, potato. I thought you were going to say she wasn't good in Mamma Mia. No, she did a good job. going on that. Amazing. No, the Florence Foster Jenkins thing. She wasn't supposed to be able to sing. No, I know. No, I thought you would. Okay, so what would be your karaoke song? Oh, God. Can you sing? Huh? No, I don't. Because you have a very nice kind of fruity voice.

42:20Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, but I'm not a singer. I like the, I know the lyrics to a lot of, like the American songbook and all that. I love all that. I might sing, it's something like. Do you like musicals? Yes, I do. Me too. Yeah, I do. What's your favourite? Hard to say. On the Town's pretty great. I don't know that one. Yes, you do. Jean Kelly, we're going on the town. We're going to take that city. I think you've got a good voice. I think you should do West End next. Stanley. Stanley, you evoke lots of memories of food. What's a fragrance that would remind you of your mum? A fragrance that takes you back somewhere.

43:02that takes you back somewhere. I think really something simple, like just, when you just have olive oil in a pan with a little bit of garlic and onion, just that, and then my mother starts to make a marinara. It's just, the whole house just changes. You know, that's what I do. Like if we rent a house someplace or if I go on location and I have to stay in a hotel, an apartment for an extended period of time, I will, the first thing I'll do is stock up and I'll just light the stove and just cook my dinata sauce so that the smell goes through everything. And then you just feel better. You feel slightly grounded.

43:45I love that. It just makes you feel better. It's like you doing chopped and fried, Mum, fish balls. Never again. Yeah, I just feel right at home. What? What did you have? Fried fish balls, Jewish. It's something called gefilte fish. Oh, gefilte fish, yeah. Yeah, so whenever I've cooked it, My mum used to cook it every week. But if I cook it, it's powerful. Yeah, it is powerful. And you stink. So you can only cook it before you have a bath. Is gefilte fish from herring? Is it herring? No, it's just a white fish. It's just a mixture of white fishes. Cart, place, hake, haddock. And then you mix it all together with onion and egg.

44:24And that's a meal. And then you fry it. That is one thing I miss about New York. The Jewish, yeah. Oh my God. Because I lived on the Upper West Side. We had so many Jewish delis. You had Zabar's on the Upper West Side, which is incredible. What a Zabar? Eli Zabar, this guy, opened this place, I don't know how many years ago, 50 years ago. It's huge. It's basically an emporium of food. But particularly like sort of New York Jewish. Then you had Barney Greengrass, which was an amazing deli. meaning like you'd go in you could order stuff you could sit down and they'd make you know sturgeon and eggs and all that sort of lox and bagels and I mean I really miss that you know chicken noodle soup soup and matzo balls borscht all that but you can't really get it you can't get it no

45:22so your book is out yeah and the TV show's out yeah Can people watch it in the UK, by the way? Now they can. What's it on? CNN International. Okay, fine. So I guess if you have Sky... Okay. Maybe you get it on old Netflix. Well, I... Maybe. I agree. But that was not... Can it? Under my... Well, maybe someday, if they choose to sell it to them. But it's up to CNN. They're the ones who... They control it. So what's next? Are you shooting anything at the moment? No, we're going to shoot the London episode here. So we're shooting an episode of our show, but here, with Italian chefs and Italian immigrants and so on and so forth, telling the story of, because you have, I think, close to 400 ,000 Italian immigrants in London.

46:11I didn't know. It's huge. It's huge. And a lot of them are in the hospitality business. And as you know, we have incredible restaurants here that are Italian restaurants. So that's going to be the focus of this episode. We're doing it because we can't go to Italy. And we thought, well, let's. You live here. it's authentic. Yeah, why not? And you have and what are those stories? Why are so many young people coming from Italy still to live and work in London? That's a really interesting story to me and a lot of them end up going into the food business but even if they don't, we're telling stories that are connected to food because Italians are always connected to food no matter what their sort of social status is.

46:52A cab driver and a princess will be on equal footing when they talk about food. And that doesn't happen in any other country as far as I know. Even with the north-south divide of Italy, there's still that common thread with the food, or do you think, I mean... I think without question. I think it is the common denominator. It's the thing that brings everybody together. I mean, Garibaldi united the country in the 1860s. The real thing, one of the reasons we wanted to do the show was to show the diversity of Italian food, but also to show that no matter who you are, no matter what your social standing, no matter what your upbringing, there is this obsession with food.

47:39And it is the only way that they communicate. Yeah, that's the kind of very, there's a real similarity with that. And Jewish food, but it's kind of, it's not the same because I think that well it's not the same because there isn't you know because you know the Italians come from this one place the Jews are scattered all over the world so there are dishes that are similar from you know if you go to Israel if you go to you know to Eastern Europe there are dishes that are similar but it's it's it's different because it's not necessarily a single race of people. I'm leaving it on the bottom of the thing.

48:27What is that? Stop it. But you don't have to eat. I feel like you have used quite Italian ingredients today, Mother. This is gorgeous. Gennaro makes one of these. And that's some mascarpone. Jess, do you want a... You're a lovely guest. Jessi, do you want some? Yes, a slither, please. Is this the way you grew up, like this? Yes, my mum has always done this. I mean, look, she's zhuzhed it up today. She's cooked like this every day. There was always a kind of dessert after, even if it was, you know, the offering of ice cream in the Frick Palace. This is gorgeous. Mum, this is great. You've really done good today, gal.

49:08Good. Amazing. Perfect Italian meal. Aw. It's been such a pleasure having you. I mean, we knew you were going to be a goodie, but we'll have to do a part two when you've got your next meal. book or series out because yeah and you can bring the um parmigiana let's do this again thank you thank you thank you don't mind me saying you look very young and very handsome thank you your skin is beautiful and that is not the wine talking oh baby wow your skin is shut that mic up

49:56Jessie, after that session with Stan, my head was swimming. Oh my goodness. He liked a glass of wine. As do you. So he was my perfect companion, perfect guest. He also name-checked Eli Zabar and Barney Greengrass, which came up a lot in our New York season. So it's Eli Zabar that we met. Yes. Oh my goodness. Talking about how he missed the Jewish food from the Upper West Side in New York. So that's a funny, serendipitous moment. How funny. We both totally fell in love with Stanley. Total gent, full of stories and grace. Yeah. You're welcome back anytime, Stanley. Fun, warm. Make it good for us.

50:34Yes, I'd love that. And we'll have another second helping next week for you. So we'll see you next week.

51:10We'll be right back.

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