Second Helpings - Tom Jones

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1:35Hello and welcome to Second Helpings with me, Jessie Ware and Lenny Ware. This week we have Sir Tom Jones, who came on the podcast in April 2021. He had a new album out called Surrounded by Time and he had fantastic stories to tell us. What did you make, Mum? I made lamb shanks with vegetables because I thought he was Welsh and he'd appreciate lamb. And then I made a lemon curd roulade, which is one of my strong points as a dessert. But little did we know. And really, little did we know that he'd helped in a synagogue when he was a boy and he would have preferred a whole Jewish meal with chicken soup and matzo balls.

2:13And he likes chocolate, so I got it all wrong. Tom Jones coming up on Second Helpings.

2:33We have Sir Tom Jones in Mum's kitchen. I feel faint. Well, I'm not going to say what you said to me when I walked in. About the knickers? No, I haven't said that yet. Jessica! I said, I wish I'd had two jabs because I'd have hugged you. Well, I mean, I'm sorry. I feel like we've got two flirters in the room. This is just going to be a big flirt-off. But, Sir Tom, it is a pleasure to have you over for dinner. Thank you. And just before, we've already been chatting and it's been glorious, but the first thing we got talking on was about how you were a Shabbos Goy. So can you please tell all our listeners what that is, what happened, what was going on?

3:11Okay. Shabbos Goy is when you, the Goyim, who was non-Jewish. So we were kids. The street that I grew up in, when I got married anyway, which was like 16 years old. And the house was there. My wife was Catholic. She used to go to a Catholic school, which was only a couple of doors away from where she lived, where I lived there later on. Next door to the Catholic school was a Jewish synagogue. About 20 doors down, if that, was a Baptist chapel, all in a small street. So on Saturday, Shabbos, of course, we'd be outside the kids playing waiting for the rabbi to come up and you know the people who was going to open up the synagogue that morning and then they couldn't do anything of course as you know so we would be waiting for one of us to be picked to go in and put the lights on and was it like my father told me that when he was young and they had boilers then you know With us, we just used to turn the heater on, like that, as a switch.

4:22But when my father was a boy, they used to have an oil stove, a wooden stove down in the basement to heat the synagogue. So he would have to go down there, when he was a Shabbos guy, and get the boilers working. So for anybody who is a Goy, and I'm sure the Goyim that are listening, basically on Shabbos, you aren't allowed to. if you are... Electricity. Electricity, because it's... Yeah, you're not supposed to do anything, are you? It's supposed to be your day of rest. So that's... I love the idea that Tom and all his mates are waiting to see who the rabbi's going to pick. Did they give you money?

4:56Yeah. Good. Well, that's why we were there. Good. What, do you think I'm a schmuck? Sometimes you don't get paid and they think you're doing it as an owner. What, and they pay you in gefilte fish or something? No, we would hope, you know, but they always did. Yeah. You know, fair play. And so, Hold on, I didn't know that you got married at 15. 16. 16. Yeah. Wow. How did you and your late wife meet? We were kids together in that same street, outside the synagogue, funny enough. It was after the war, you see. They used to have an air raid shelter built in the middle of her street, you know, with a concrete base and reinforced red brick building that the locals would go in there from their houses.

5:43so at least you'd all be in one I don't know whether that's a good thing or a bad thing because when the bombs were dropping we'd all be together they'd have to know where everybody was so they would count in and you'd go in this place which was in the street outside the synagogue and we used to go in there as children of course because they were dropping well we thought they were dropping bombs but we were lucky you see in South Wales Cardiff they bombed Swansea they bombed all of the dock areas. But then if you heard planes over Pontypris, where I come from, they had come in too far. Now, the problem was they couldn't get back to France where they were coming from.

6:24German planes, of course, but they were coming from France. So they couldn't get back with a full load on. So they'd have to drop the bombs that they didn't use because they missed. Bloody hell. Yeah, so you think, oh, shit. You know, they're going to... Yeah. We're going to... I mean, I didn't know. I was born in 1940, you know, so I didn't know. I remember the noise and the siren and everything, you know. But then it was explained to me later on, if you heard the planes come over, then they think, oh, my God, you know, they're going to drop it wherever they can in order for them to get back.

7:00So there was a problem, you see. So they had big guns up on the hills, you know, around the valleys just in case. If they come in too far, They try and knock them out before they can unload. So you and your wife would have been babies in this air raid shelter? Yes, I was born in 1940. She was born in 1941. So when did you start going out, when did you start being boyfriend and girlfriend? Well, after the war, they knocked this shelter down, and they kept the concrete slab, you know, the big slab there. Well, she used to play marbles on the concrete slab. and I was walking with my friends because she lived in a different street to me, just around the corner, really.

7:45But you'd have to go out of your way off the main drag to go into the street where she lived, where the synagogue was. So as I was walking through, I saw her playing marbles and she had great legs, you see. You weren't impressed by her skillful marble play. No, no, she was there giving it that and I went, who is that? You know, like when I was, I don't know, nine or ten or something like that. You know, when you first start noticing girls they become different things and just a pain in the arse they become more interesting yes you look at them in a different way so there she was playing Marvel so that's the first time I was aware of her but I remember she used to go to the Catholic school and us Protestant kids I did anyway I used to look at the Catholic girls and think wow exotic because they all wore earrings see Why?

8:37Well, when Catholic kids are born... Oh, they get their ears pierced. They get their ears pierced when they're young. So we thought that that was, like, very exotic because the Protestant girls didn't have that, you know. So I remember seeing the Catholic girls around there with these earrings in, you see. Didn't you used to have your ear pierced? I did at one time, yes. And so you were already married when It's Not Unusual came out. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I can remember watching you on Ready, Steady, Go. Yes. And this fantastic, you had hips like snake hips. Yes. Fabulous. Yes. You wore the rabbit.

9:12Rabbit's foot. And you were real sexy. And they were kind of putting you forward as this sexy bloke with this fantastic baritone voice. Yes. And no one knew you were married, I don't think, at the time. No, exactly. Yeah. They kept it quiet. They kept it quiet, which they used to do then, you see. Like marriage, oh, my God. You know, you can't be married. Because none of the young girls will buy the records. That's what they thought. Yeah, right. So, you know, it was the front of the Daily Mirror. I remember seeing it. After I had It's Not Unusual, number one it went to very quickly. Then, oh, sorry girls, but Tom Jones is already married.

9:49And where did it go in the charts after that? It stayed, it was no problem. Jesse, it was such a good song. I know. But I remember doing a Ready, Steady, Go. And I was talking to T-Bone Walker, who's a blues guy. Yeah. And the girls were looking through the glass, you know, the studio. Oh, Tom, you know, you're married. Oh, my God. You know, they were all like, oh. But the general public, thank God, it didn't affect it. But the young girls were a bit upset. I want to know about this 16-year-old wedding. Like, did you get a say on the choice of meal that you had? No, because, you see, what happened?

10:30And the honest truth is my wife and myself really started going out properly. I left school at 15, which was 1955. She was still in school because she was seven months younger than me. So I finished. I started working in a glove factory. She was still in school. So after I would finish work, I would go and she would just come out of school. and we started going around the hills of South Wales. You see? And one thing led to another, of course. Started with Kiss Chase. Kiss Chase. Before I had TB. I had TB from the time I was 12 till I was 14. Shit. Two years? Yeah, two years in bed, in the house.

11:16And your lungs held out. Yeah. Well, see, it was a blessing in disguise because they said, whatever you do, you can't go down the coal mine. My father was a coal miner, you see? so I'd knocked that out so it was a blessing in disguise because it stopped me I would have become a coal miner but that stopped me so for two years yeah from 52 to 54 I was bedridden and I could see my wife you know outside with you know going up the hills with kids you know playing because all the hits are all around and I'm like oh my god and I remember feeling an ache in my chest. You know they say about heartache.

11:54Well I felt heartache. Honestly when I was 12 and then when I was 13 of course like that but all through especially from 13 to 14 when I could get out of the house you know I was then moving around a bit and I could see her through the window going up the side of the thing you know. But a friend of mine used to keep a check on her because he knew I liked her so I said keep an eye on Linda and make sure that she's right, okay. And so when you had your wedding, what did you eat? Wait a minute. Okay, sorry, go on, carry on. Kiss Chase. Come on, we were at Kiss Chase. This is about food, I forgot.

12:33And Kiss Chase. We like a little Kiss Chase. Okay, it was Kiss Chase and she said she realised because when I kissed her when we were kids it was something different there. So when we got married, we had to have it done quickly because she was pregnant and by the time you know, when the shit hit the fan, pardon the expression. You called her then, Tom. Pardon? Kiss Chase, you caught her. Yes, exactly. I caught her on the Kiss Chase. So anyway, we started, as young people do, together. But we fell in love, you see. We were in love. A lot of kids fall in lust, you know what I mean. But we didn't, thank God.

13:08It was the real deal. And I mean, I remember when I had TB and I was like aching for this girl. Had you kissed her by that point? Oh, the Kiss Chase. Kiss Chase, okay. that was like 10 okay 12 exactly so then i was there but i was you know i knew there was something about this girl you know i just felt strong for for her so i come out of bed and then um i used to go to the local shop for my mother to pick the groceries up and she would be using the same shop so if we were there by ourselves we would we would find some excuse to go and get the shopping in by ourselves rather than go with our mothers which we used to do as well so when we'd got a chance to I said, do you want anything down the shop, ma 'am?

13:50You know, yeah, go and get me some potatoes or whatever it is. And I would be down there. And Linda, of course, nine times out of ten, she would be there. And my mother had to come around the corner and she'd say, come on, for God's sake, your father's waiting for his dinner. You know, you've got the bloody, you know, stop talking about Linda Trenchard, her name was. Linda Trenchard, you know, come on. So, you know, you try to like, you know, try to be cool. But ma 'am's calling me. Okay. so that was it so then when she became pregnant you see she she didn't show for a long time so when she did it was like you know she was getting close and then they said well what do we do now there's a big kerfuffle then you know my grandmother came to the house and my mother you know all the family came around oh you can't you know you can't let this boy get married at this early age i was there with linda we were in the kitchen talking right and all the family was there you know trying to work out what's going to happen right and my mother god bless her she said look at this we're all disgusting what these kids are going to do with their lives and they are oblivious to what we're saying and i said what you know like we were like boom you know like that she said you can see them if this child is born out of wedlock which was this is him there yeah this child you're that's mark mark is here and also is your manager yes yeah see so he did very well out of this so married on march the second yeah because it was all like january and february was all oh oh so anyway so by the time they made up their minds and my mother said please that's not getting away because you can see i know true love when i see it and there it is so um she said if we if we don't let them go ahead with it now and the child would be born out of wedlock which which was a big deal in those days, they're going to get married anyway.

15:47As soon as they turn 18, and we won't have a say in it, they'll get married. I know they will. So which family did you live with, hers or yours? Well, we didn't live together at the beginning. It's a good question, because her father had tuberculosis, but he was in hospital with it. So they didn't really want me to go close to her house because he would be coming home in the weekends and things like that, and I was susceptible because I'd already had TB. So that was a bit of a problem there. But we got married in a registry office because religion again came into it, right? So she was brought up Catholic, you see.

16:26Her father was Church of England, but her mother was Catholic. She went to a Catholic school, went to a Catholic church. And I was Protestant, right? Went to a Presbyterian chapel. So we thought, and it's got to be done fast, so we don't want to be getting all this stuff together. and my sister was about to get married. Oh, see, oh no, you stole her limelight. Well, so all this came together very quickly. We went to the registry office in Pont-a-Pri-D and got it done fast. Went back to our house and I think, I don't know what it was, my mother did a, she used to do a great pie. She used to do a corned beef pie, my mother, in a big tin.

17:02Yeah. Because, you know, during the war and after the war, everything was on ration. So she could make something out of nothing. You know what I mean? Was she a good cook? Oh, great cook. Oh, my grandmother, my father's mother, was a professional cook. Oh, really? Yeah. So anyway, so we had one of these pies. So it was corned beef, onions. My father loved onions, so gravy, you know, it was a big thing. Lovely. Yeah, so she... How many people came? Only just a close family. My sister, her husband, a to-be, who were engaged at the time. And my mother and father. You were there. Mark was there. Mark was there, yes.

17:39but when did you start singing like i mean were you singing a choir when i was a child i never went in for choir singing i didn't particularly like it you know i didn't i didn't want to be locked into anything i always wanted to be a free spirit even but from a child you know i said i'll sing what i want to sing when i want to sing it not uh you know like that so when i was in school the first recollection that i had about soul singing you know gospel music yeah i sang the lord's prayer you know in religious instructions and they said you you you were sounding like a gospel singer i said i don't know i go to a presbyterian chapel we'd sing hymns on a sunday afternoon you know but that's that's about as far as it goes jesse and i i was talking about your new album which i love yes it's very bluesy yes but i said to jesse well i think tom's really a blues singer and jesse's no he's a soul singer what are you well that's a good point it with soul singing you see it all comes from the church you know al jolson for instance i was a big al jolson fan when i was a kid yeah and i loved what he did so who who are your real fabulous the people you look up to your your idols when you're growing up besides al jolson well Oh, besides Al Jolson.

19:04Were they blues singers? Yes. You see, Jesse? Yeah, yeah. You see? I knew I got it right. Well, but gospel as well, though, you see. There's gospel, blues, and then it turned into what we know as soul. But that only kicked in in the 60s, where they used soul music. Well, it's interesting because, obviously, I did a BBC show that you presented and sung on with Beverly Knight. Yes. And it was a gospel, it was on Christmas Day. In Cardiff. And in Cardiff, and we had these choirs, and I fantastically lost my voice. I'm worried about that. I lost my voice the day before, which is always really great when you're doing a television special on Christmas Day with Tom Jones.

19:43But I remember hearing you sing, and it just being... And you told stories about these gospel songs that you were singing, and it was so beautiful to hear. And to hear you singing with this choir was, I mean, it was gorgeous. It totally makes sense, that the origins of... Yes, so that's what I was influenced by. I'm sure like Al Jolson was when he was a kid. He must have heard people singing that kind of music. It's not unusual, your first... Yes. So what was that thought of at the time? Was that a pop song? It was pop, wasn't it? Pop song. What happened was, we tried a song, first of all, called Chills and Fever, which was like a rock...

20:24Good title. Yeah, rock soul type thing. and that's what Peter Sullivan who my recorder manager was thought that's what I would get a hit with and I thought so too but I could sing almost anything really which is sometimes I think it's an asset but people can't put a label on you you see that's the problem so we did Chills and Fever it didn't make it then I did a demo for Sandy Shaw that Gordon Mills and Les Reed wrote I did the demo on it to give to her manager this. Anyway, she wanted the song for Sandy's show. Now, Sandy's show had already had a couple of number one records. So I did the demo on it.

21:04They sent it to her. And that was, so she said, whoever's singing it, God bless her, whoever's singing this, it's his song. Well, I had to fight for this song. You know, I said, excuse me. You know, after I did the demo on Denmark Street, I said, that's it. So they said, what? What do you mean, that's it? I said, that's the song we're looking for is right there. now you know I can write a million of those Gordon Mills said he never did but which song was it I'm still waiting it's not unusual oh she was going to sing that song yeah bloody was she pissed off that you didn't send it because it was bum chupa bum see and she'd had a couple of you know bum chupa bum chupa bum yeah there's always something there to remind me yeah those kind of things was that her oh ok those things you see and you said no well Well, I said, I want that song.

21:53Yeah. So thank God for her. She said, whoever's singing this, I can't sing that like that. So I'm glad they asked me to do the demo. If they'd had a girl to do it, she might have done it. So how old were you then? 24. 23, 24. Living in London? Yeah, yeah. We were living in Ladbroke Grove. We had moved to London. Yeah. You know, trying to crack it, waiting for the song. You know, so we tried this Chills of Favour in the summer of 64, didn't make it. So towards the end of the year, when I finally said, I want that song. So Peter Sullivan said, look, if we tried it, a milder version didn't happen.

22:29He said, it's not happening. I said, I know it can happen, you know, with the right arrangement. I don't know what it is, but I know it can. And then Les Reed, who was a ranger as well, said, what about if I put brass just to play the same bap-t-ba-dap as the bass drum is doing? So Peter Sullivan said, well, give it a shot. Let's see. Because he said, it's got to kick before you even open your mouth. Right? So we lifted the key, put it in C, which is high. Yeah. And that's it. Was it hard for you to sing it? No, easy. I mean, I've done... You can sing anything, Jesse. No, I've done the demo on it, you see.

23:06So I do the song inside out. So to me, it was easy. And of course, boom, there it was. So how did Linda feel about when it went big? Right. Was it weird for her and you? Well, no. She knew I was after it. She knew because she used to hear me sing when we were kids. And then in the pubs and clubs, you know, she'd come to these work amongst clubs with me to see. She used to get more nervous than I did. In Wales? In Wales, yeah. With a band, I took a little rhythm section in there and we did these shows. Mark, can I ask you, if you don't mind? Well, I'll ask your dad. What was one of your mum's, your favourite dishes that your mum did, or your dad did, actually?

23:46Was your dad a good cook? Did he cook? Not me, no. I couldn't boil an egg. No, I can't. He was on a cooking show once when we were doing a promo tour in Europe. Yeah. He nearly freaked out that he was standing by a kitchen sink or whatever. But see, my father was a coal miner. Yeah. My mother was in the kitchen. She ruled the kitchen. Yeah. I used to help her when I was a child, you know, peeling potatoes and doing all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And I would like being in the kitchen with my mother. but when I got a bit older my father said, look, excuse me stay out of the kitchen, alright? To me.

24:21So you just never you got to enjoy but you never really learnt any dishes? Love cooking, no. My father loved my mother's cooking. At one point he wouldn't need anybody else's cooking. So who's cooking for you now? Well, I've got a man that works for me. Ben. And he cooks? Yes. And he good? Yes, he's my assistant and butler come assistant. Oh yeah, come cook. Do you know that's all I'm after in my life You would like a butler that doesn't wear any clothes No I would Fantastic He cooks different things He was just cooking over there this afternoon now When Mark came over And we tried a little bit of Meatballs Just a little bit So you've still got an appetite for what we're giving you Oh And you tell me it's lamb and I'm Welsh Well that's why I did it So mum did I mean, yeah, Mum did lamb shank, which we hear you are a fan of.

25:14Love it. Good. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, go on, Mark. Sorry. So, Mark, what did your mum used to cook that felt really memorable, that you really loved? I can't remember. I mean, in the 50s, everybody was going after things like fish fingers. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It was the beginning of, really. That felt really exciting. No, it was. Convenience food. Convenience food was starting to come alive. Finder's pancakes, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It was so exciting. What a food take. But was Linda a good cook? Oh, yeah. What did you love of hers? Well, she could cook anything. Yeah. Like my mother, she learned a lot from my mother.

25:51That's good. And she learned to cook. So she could cook anything you wanted, really. She got to become a really good cook. But you lived in the States for a long time. Yeah, yeah. Where? Belle Aide and Beverly Hills. Oh. Yeah. Why did you come back? My wife died. after she died you felt better here yes well Mark and my son and daughter-in-law and grandchildren are here so what was I doing over there no it's true so thanks Mark but if you remember I love the fact that your poor mother you went I loved fish fingers she was a very young woman you see because I was don't forget she was still growing up when I was a baby really so we had an interesting time the three of us to be honest it must have been quite a ride like being in it together exactly I mean you must remember so much of your dad's career like the start did you go to all his gigs no he was too young he was too young in Wales you see oh but when I was playing the clubs and everything yeah oh yeah Mark was only a kid but then when It's Not Unusual came out of course the press were well Mark will tell you they were all after him in the playground you know oh no do you remember it Well, vividly.

27:07It was a shocker for me. Oh, that's so horrible. That's when your life changes. You remember the day. It was on St. David's Day in 1965, so I was eight. And all of a sudden, that's... It was amazing. You hope for the best, but it changes your life. But here we are today. Look at this.

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29:07do you love doing the voice i love it just kind of what do you love about it what is well i'm still in the business without singing yeah well i sing sometimes yeah but you've got an album out now like well yes but you know what i mean i'm sort of uh with music musicians yeah you get a chance to go and you know have a bit of a sing as well yeah but i can i can help young singers as much as I possibly can. You know, and to try and give them some wisdom that people gave me when I was growing up. You know what I mean? You pick up information as you know. Oh, I love it when you sing. You know, yeah, so...

29:42Oh, I love it when you tell a story and you say, oh, when I was singing with Elvis. Yeah. Or when I was singing with, you know, Bob Dylan, Frank Sinatra, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He's sung with everybody, Jess. I want to know, are there any really memorable dinners with any of those people? Frank Sinatra, Elvis, did you ever have any dinners that we must know about on Table Miners? Uh, yes. Are we allowed to know? No, Elvis Presley, he didn't like to go out. Oh, you're kidding. Just because he was too famous? Well, he said that. I said, but Elvis, if you're going to have six fellas walking in front of you saying, get out the way, Elvis is coming.

30:18I said, it's not very, you've got to dress down. You've got to, you know, you've got to put a hat on or something. Oh, did he always dress up in those suits? Yes, but he loved. Oh, my God. Elvis Presley loved being Elvis Presley. But he would say, oh, how do you do it, Tom? You know, how do you go? I said, because you go unannounced. There are places. You've got to make sure where you're going. You can't go wandering about, of course, but it can be done. So he would have dinner in his suite, and we would sometimes eat up there. But he loved junk food, you see. Oh, really? He used to keep a pizza under his bed.

30:53Oh, my God. What? Just in case he had munchies in the middle of the night. Oh, my God. That's a great... I mean, he's my kind of guy. I knew I liked Elvis. Pizza under the bed. Cook pizza's great. But I was in Hawaii with him when I was in Hawaii. And he had pineapple on his pizza. Exactly. In 1969. And we went... I went to his house to hang out with him because he was staying in Hawaii and I was doing some shows there in 1969 when I had my TV show. So I went out to his house in the afternoon and we had hamburgers. Well, that was like the big thing that he loved, right? Yes. Yeah. So that was it.

31:30You know, I remember having lunch there, hamburgers and salads and stuff like that. Was he handsome? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Striking. Striking. I think that that's, I mean, he did sound different as well, mind you. But that became, it was like almost an accident, you know, because he liked blues, rhythm and blues, gospel music especially. But they wanted him to, you know, what we're going to do with Elvis. They didn't know because he loved a lot of things. you know had a gorgeous voice yes so we happened to trip over you know we're doing the first one that's alright mama you know it was like that so but he had a different sound but it was his look you see yeah it was his look he looked better than you think of the most handsome fella you've ever met he was so beautiful you can't imagine and then he walks in you know what I mean in his day when he before he put on that weight which was a shame that they've got footage of him like that because he wasn't.

32:26I knew him when he was young and like that. But he didn't wear the best outfits then, did he? Well, he loved it. You know, he got into that, you see, that Vegas thing. That Vegas thing with the collar up and the shoulders. But he loved it. I mean, he got married in Las Vegas, you know, before he started working there. So, you know, he did love Vegas. Did you have a residency in Vegas? No, I used to go, well, sort of. I would play there when Elvis was there at the same time and Frank Sinatra and Sammy Davis, you know, the Rat Pack and all that, in the 60s, late 60s, early 70s, I would do a month straight, one month per year.

33:02Two shows a night for a month straight. Your voice must have been... Unbelievable. ...exhausted. Yeah, I got nods on my vocal cords because of it. So anyway, that was it, and we were all there together. So as far as food was concerned, I had to eat and... I'll tell you what I used to have. You're not support, sir. Exactly. I'm going to send you... Penicillin? I'm making some. Jewish penicillin. Tom, I'm making some this weekend because it's Passover and I'll send some to you. Definitely. Mum, I'm actually really hungry now. Can we get the old lamb shank? Do you want me to? Yeah, sure. I was looking forward to chicken in a pot or...

33:36Oh, I'm so sorry. I thought I'd grab a Jewish meal here tonight. No, I love lamb shanks. Tell me about Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Nice guy? Yeah, oh yeah. What did he drink? He drank bourbon and coke. And did you join him drinking that? Oh, yeah. One night, I'm walking through the casino in Caesar's Palace to go and see Sammy Davis. Yeah. I was following him in. You also sang really well. Yes. Oh, great singer. I mean, actually, amazing. A nice Jewish boy, you see? Yes. So I was going to go and see him. I was following him in. I was going to go into Caesar's Palace after him. So I go in a little bit early to see whoever was on.

34:20Yeah. So I was going to, and I knew Sammy Davis, you know, from 65. And so I went in there. This was about 1970, 71, somewhere around there. And so I'm walking through the casino past this Galleria bar, which was a big bar in Caesars Palace, on my way to see Sammy Davis. And I hear, Thomas. And I said, oh, that's Frank. So I turn and he's there at the end of the bar, roped off. You know, nobody else can go in there. Right. and so he says Thomas and he tapped the stool by the side of him so I said well look I'm going to see Sammy Davis he's going to be going on anyway he can wait he said I said well I wouldn't want to be the one to hold his show up no no he said just a quick drink you know you won't be late so I sat with him and I had a he was drinking I said what are you drinking he said bourbon and coke he said that's what I like okay great So he had that.

35:19I can't remember what I had. And so we were sitting there, and a young lady came past and said, oh, my God, Frank Sinatra and Tom Jones together. Oh, my God, like this, right? Could I have a picture? She came up with a little camera to take a picture of the both of us. And he said, Frank Sinatra said, if you want a picture, there's got to be a good one. So he calls the camera girl over that's working there in the thing, and he said, this young lady would like a picture of Tom and myself, so let's have it done properly, not with that little camera that you have sweetheart he said and and that was it and thank god that happened because i have the picture now oh you know a proper picture of the two of us at the bar it would have been you know i wouldn't have had it otherwise so uh so that yeah that was it so he was which music did you enjoy listening to did you like frank sinatra not so much as i liked elvis presley but i got i learned to appreciate him more when i got older yeah me too his timing see i was i was phrasing as well yeah exactly but i was i was rock and roll began i was 15 years old yeah you know what i mean it hit like a hammer you know so anything that wasn't rock and roll to me in when i was a teenager was nothing yeah you know so then you get older and that's why we call this album surrounded by time because it does make a difference you see when you get older you look at life in a different way all the different parts of your life so when i got into um yeah when i got into my 20s 30s i was then starting to realize what how good frank sonata did sing you know you got to listen to him to know how really well he sang and uh so i got to appreciate that you know with the thing but i went this is ironic i went to elvis right and i'd recorded an album of standards, right?

37:12Yeah. So he said, I got your latest album, Tom, right? Okay. I love Elvis saying that. On my life. And he said, but let me tell you something. He said, if you don't mind. I said, no, I don't mind. He said, we leave songs like that to Frank. You know what I mean? We leave. We. He said, we don't do those songs. I kind of love that, that he said we. Did you feel like, was that like the greatest song? Yeah. So I thought, wow, you know, this is it. Then I see Frank. you know, another night, like that night when we were having a drink. Oh, my God. And he said, Tom, you can forget that rock and roll stuff.

37:44You could do great jazz records. They all wanted you in their gang. Well, so I thought, what a situation to be in. Elvis Presley telling me to do more rock-type numbers or big ballads as well, but not standards, you know, not what Frank Sinatra would be doing. Leave that to Frank Sinatra, he said. I said, well, I like doing them all. and I thought Elvis is trying to pull me one way, Frank Sinatra's trying to pull me the other way. What a position to be in. What a predicament. Yeah. I wonder whether, because it seems like you were so loved by everybody, not only fans, but you know. In the business.

38:23In the biz. Yes, I was lucky. You were. Because he's nice. No, I get this, but I, maybe I'm putting words in your mouth, but for me, I've been with my husband since I was 18. Yeah. And there's something that's quite grounding about having that. And I wonder whether there was something about you that you were, yes, you were living in Beverly Hills, Bel Air. You were hanging out with Elvis. He still had Linda there. Frankly, you still had Linda. Yes. And there was something quite grounding about that. You were huge, famous, but... Well, she woke up, you know, when we would go to see Elvis Presley, you know, Linda was with me nine times out of ten.

38:58And he said to me, you're lucky, Tom, to have Linda. Because he said, I fell in love when I was young and I was on the road a lot. so she I didn't you know we never went any further than that but he still thought of that girl he said that's the girl I wanted and I couldn't get her because she went off with somebody else because I was too busy doing my thing but you got married before fame happened right which is true so then you realize my marriage was solid you see before it's not unusual and that I think kept me going You know, well, I not think, I know. Because sometimes I'd get a bit large.

39:40You know what I mean? There were some Americans came over to the house we used to have on St. George's Hill, right? Yeah. So I had a snooker room up on the top floor. Uh-huh. And I'm playing snooker with this fellow from New York, Berk Zanft, who's a good Jewish man. Oh, my God. So he was up there. He said, he'd be doing Passover. Exactly. Do you want to come to my mat mitzvah? We'll get on to that in a minute. But yes, carry on. Yeah, so Berk Zanft was over there. He's a plastics manufacturer. Yeah. I got to know. He used to come to the corporate to see me sing there. So anyway. The Copacabana.

40:10Copacabana, yeah. Oh, my. I didn't even realise there's a real place. Oh, yeah. I thought it was just a song. No, no. Anyway, OK. This is a... Wow. Which was owned by Jules Podell, who was, again, Jewish. OK. Yeah, we've got it wrapped up. OK. It's quite amazing. Like, Tom speaks like he's a Jew, because we always talk about who's Jewish. The Jews just talk about, but I feel like you've got it. You're claiming them. Hey! That's why Jewish people go short necks, you know. That's amazing. Exactly. So come on, the snooker, on the penthouse snooker. So we're up in the house, St George's Hill, and playing snooker with...

40:49In Weybridge. In Weybridge. St George's Hill. It's a posh place in Weybridge. Oh, OK, got it. Before we moved to the States. Where Cliff Richard lived. Oh, OK. Yeah, and John Lennon and Ray Gostar. Yeah. So we're playing snooker up in the top room and I supposedly got a bit large. This was in the early 70s. What's large to Tom Jones, though? I need to know this. Well, I'm drinking a glass of Dom Perignon champagne and I'm smoking a big Cuban cigar and I'm sort of saying, well, you know, when we were in the thing, and then, and then, and then, going on like this. I was getting a bit out of my pram, as we say.

41:25And Linda said, just a minute. You know, I mean, she's sitting there, you know. With some other people. And she said, just a minute. She said, you don't really think you're Tom Jones, do you? And I said, well, yeah, I am Tom. I am. No, she said, I married Tommy Woodward. Soon as you start believing that you are Tom Jones, forget it. Oh, is your name not Jones? Thomas Jones Woodward. Oh, we never knew that. Yeah, yeah, we just chopped the Woodward off. Excuse me. So, she would do that to me, you see. so I could not and I loved that because I realized this girl I can't bullshit this girl you know what I mean and she will not take bullshit from me I can't there's no way around it and all my life when she died I said to Mark because he was there you know we were in the hospital with her and everything and I said and he said you'll be alright you'll be okay I said no I said your mother you see she used to keep me grounded now who's going to save me from me.

42:28You know what I mean? Because you can get carried away, you see. Like I started drinking a lot after she died because I thought, oh, the only way I've got to get through this is be large. It doesn't work. You can't do that. So you've got to be real. So you needed to come back to the UK to be with Mark. Exactly. So thank God Mark keeps me grounded and he does. You try it. No, but honestly, because I say just a minute. You know, he's like his mother speaking to me, you know what I mean? Just a minute, you know what I mean? Shall I just serve everyone up? Yeah, sure. Do you want to serve everything?

43:07Yes, please. Wow. Just like Mum used to make. So how old are your grandchildren, Tom? My grandson is 37. You're kidding. My granddaughter's 33. Good voices. Yeah. Yeah? Oh, yeah. Would you say, get into the industry, or would you say, just stick it? If they wanted to. Yeah. Because I said to my grandson, he could be, and he's a good-looking fella, plays guitar, sings, loves music, knows a lot about it. You know, he likes what he likes, and he didn't like that. So I said, wouldn't you give it a shot? I mean, I'll help you as much as I can. If you want to, he said, I don't think I got the nerve for it.

43:53I love to sing around the house and everything, but he said I don't think I'm cut out for it I said well it's a lot easier than you would think once you make that first step but you know you know at the beginning if you look at it from the outside you think how do those people do that so about your new record I mean did you when you do a Michael Kiwanuka cover I mean were you listening to Michael or was somebody like were your grandchildren telling you listen you really need to listen to this or do you consume a lot of new music as well no Ethan Johns Yeah, produced Ethan Jones. He produced the original record that I've just done.

44:29Yeah. So we were playing music by different people. Yeah. And have you heard this one? And I said, no, I know who the kid is. I've seen him, you know, on the Jules Holland show and everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I hadn't really listened to him. And then he played this song. And I said, wow, that's some song that I wouldn't mind having to pop at that. You know, so he said, I think it was the only time Ethan did a song with somebody that he'd already recorded with somebody else. But he loved the song, he believed in it, and I said, yeah, yeah, we'll have a go at that. So we did. So right away, you see, you start thinking, I do anyway, especially now that I'm older, as time has gone on, into the lyrics, you see.

45:13So these things, you know, I won't lie. You know, you can't be, you've got to tell the truth. Things like that, you see. When I was young, I just wanted to sing. But then when you, I think, hopefully, I've gotten more selective in the things that I'm recording now because of my age, and you think, wait a minute, I can't be trying to do something that I did in the same way as I did then. I can't. You know, you just can't. so you learn and the knowledge that you get hopefully shows in your vocal performance and the material that you pick so it's even more important to me now than it was then and what's happening with touring will you tour?

45:59oh definitely with the new songs I can't wait have you got anything in the diary? well at the moment I think it's the Isle of Wight in September amazing yeah in September yes but hopefully we'll be able to do things before then but we've got to see how things go you know with the situation that we're in but you could do like a Tom Jones special and like you could I mean I'm sure you've done plenty of them but you could probably have you know Saturday night television I know it's not the same as having people in the audience I mean hopefully they would be I feel like you can do anything really well I mean I'm still equipped like I was when I had my original TV show in the late 60s, early 70s, you know, anybody that came on, I could sing with them.

46:46What fun. So that was an asset, you see. What was your favourite duet that you ever did then? Well, there was a few of them. Aretha Franklin. Oh, come on. Amazing. What did you sing together? We did Seesaw. We did a bunch of things. We did like a lot of things. But Seesaw being one of them. And Jerry Lee Lewis. Oh, wow. Yeah, cool. Yes, because I was in the 50s, you know, he was the one for me. and Little Richard, you see. So I was doing duets with these people. I'm looking across the piano, both of them, because they both play piano. And I thought, my God, I was buying your records when I was a teenager, and here I am, looking at you and singing with you.

47:26It was unbelievable. So all those people that Tony Bennett came on there, you know, and I sang with him. Tony Bennett. Yeah, Sammy Davis. You know, there's a lot of people from different genres of music that I liked, and I could do it. Did you ever feel intimidated? No. You just felt like... Jesse, he's got a voice. No, I know this, but, you know, I mean... No, I never did. Oh, man, I mean, I honestly could keep on asking you questions. Did you meet Prince? Yes, yes. And, like, did you share a meal with Prince? No, I spent a night with... Sorry, let's rephrase that. I didn't spend a night with him.

48:02I was... After we did a show in Germany, in Corona, TV show, we got together afterwards, and he was very chatty. He wanted to talk to me. What did he want to talk to you about? All about the recordings and what was it like when you started recording. All about music, really. So I said, what happened to you? You know, one time I tried to talk to you, you know, and he said, that was then, this is now. What era was this? Was this like 90s, Prince? No, no, no, this was, wait a minute, let me think. Because it was after, because I had sex bomb. Yeah. He was a bit ticked off for the show that I did in Germany.

48:40and he was like a top of the pops in German. Why was he ticked off? Because he was a little bit out of favour at the time. He was, you know, he had slave on his cheek and all that. Oh, and he was the artist formerly known as. Exactly. So he was going through all that stuff. So he told me this afterwards. They said, Prince will not be doing the TV show tonight. I said, oh, what's the matter? Is something wrong with him? We don't know. And I thought, oh, he might be ill then. You know, if you don't show up to do something, normally you'll be ill. So we were staying at the same hotel. So I did the show, had something to eat, went back to the hotel to go to the cigar bar that they had there.

49:16And as we were walking in, his bass player, Larry Graham, was standing there. And he said, what are you doing, Tom? I said, well, I just did the show, didn't I? I said, how is Prince? Is he all right? And he said, no, no, he's upstairs. He's going to come down in a minute. I said, well, why didn't he do the show then? He said, I don't want to get into it. Okay. I said, I'll ask him when he comes down. So he comes down, he gets out of the lift, and there was nobody in the lobby. So I'm about to go into the cigar bar. He's walking towards me. So I said, how are you feeling? He said, I'm fine. I said, well, then how come you didn't do the show?

49:51He said, because you topped the bill. Oh, my God. How embarrassing. And I said, I wasn't aware of that. He said, top of the pops. He says, you know, Sex Bomb is one of the songs. Yeah, of course. And it was doing really well, obviously. Well, of course. Yeah. You know, it's number one all over Europe. So that's what ticked him off. So he said, I thought, no, he didn't swear. He said, you know, I'm not going to do it. I kind of love that he told you that. Oh, he did. Because you talked. So I said, I wasn't aware of topping a bill. Yeah. So he said, anyway, he said, you're coming to the after show party?

50:25I said, well, you didn't do the show. He went to the after show. He said, well, I can go to the after show party. I loved it. Just because I didn't do the show. I loved it. I said, well, if you're going, I'm going to just go and have a cigar in the bar there. because, you know, you couldn't smoke. It started to close down a bit. But it was a cigar bar, so I said, I'm going to have a quick cigar. And, you know, he said, we're going to be at such and such. But had you recorded Kiss, by the way? Yeah, yeah. I met him, it was his birthday, because we had the same birthday, June 7th, a different year, of course, but it was June 7th.

50:55So if anybody is born, I'd like to know if anybody else has absolutely amazing voices that were born on June 7th. June 7th, please, if anybody, yeah. so so tom we ask everybody on the podcast if they were going off to a an island and they were about to have their last meal before they were going and they just you know their perfect meal and it was a starter a main and a pudding and drink of choice what do you think would be in that in that meal starting with the starter or you can start with the pud i don't know if you're a sweet Well, I love smoked salmon. Oh, me too. So smoked salmon would be...

51:36I like the grill, you know. I used to go to the Savoy Grill when I used to stay at the Savoy. I love the Savoy Grill, yeah. So it would be smoked salmon starter, some kind of meat dish. Yeah. Could be lamb shank like we're having now, something like that. I've always chocolate for dessert. Chocolate dessert. I love chocolate. Well, I'm really glad we've done a passion fruit, lemon curd roulade, but, you know, we've got chocolate too. That'll do. Okay, fine. So chocolate is your thing? Oh, yeah. Do you have it every day? More or less. What's your fave? What's the one that you go for? I like dark chocolate.

52:13Me too. Darling, your spoon's there. Thank you, though. Thank you, Mum. It's delish. It's got a real chew about it. I like it. It's good. So, Tom, we have two more questions to ask you. Yes. I'm not going to ask. Yeah, we are. Karaoke? Yeah, we are. Okay. Do you like karaoke? In what respect? Do you ever go to a karaoke bar? Have you ever done it? No. If you were going to do it, well, I mean, maybe this is hard. Which song would be the one that you'd go and sing? I know, but like, which song would you go and sing? Well, see, 50s rock, I was a teenager in the 50s. So any real Little Richard song, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis Presley, Fats Domino, Chuck Berry, they were the ones.

52:57So any one of those songs you want to pop on, I can sing it. I have no doubt you can sing it. Well, I mean, I know it. Yeah. You know. And then Tom Jones, do you, Sir Tom Jones. Oh. Sorry. Do you get annoyed when people don't add the sir? No. No. What was it like getting knighted? Wonderful. Who did it? The Queen? The Queen. I had the OBE from the Queen and knighted by the Queen. Why? Can you not, who else does it? Charles sometimes does it. Oh, yeah, the other members of the royal family, you see. If she can't do it. But thank God, both times that I was honoured, she was there. So, Sir Tom Jones, do you think you've got good table manners?

53:41Good table manner? Yeah. I'm talking to you with my mouth full. How can I... Don't worry. I think you are the most perfect guest, and I feel like we need to have you kind of do a residency here just so we can hear all the other stories that we haven't even got round to. Well, there are many of them. So I've got to try and tone it down because I get carried away. No, you don't. This is what we live for. This is perfect. It's amazing. So, Tom Jones, thank you so much for coming on Table Manners. My pleasure. Thank you for having dinner, and thank you for telling us your amazing stories, and everyone go and listen to the new record.

54:14Thank you. My pleasure. Next time, chicken soup.

54:30Wow He was a great guest What a guest The story about Elvis But his stories Every story was amazing And I think we could still be listening to him Because he loved His son had shut him down Because his mamma's doing his son manager. But yeah, you're right. The story about Elvis and the pizza under the bed. He really does have the most phenomenal voice still. Gorgeous. It's just outrageous. There are a few people of his age that can still sing as you expect them to and he does. Thank you to Sir Tom Jones for coming on and giving us all your work. Regaling us with stories. Absolutely. We could have him back, Jess, I think.

55:10And there'll still be a few more stories. We'll see you next week for another Second Happens.

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