Tommy Banks

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1:05Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here, sounding quite serious, with Lenny, who is positively glowing. How was Safari Mum? The best thing I've ever done. Next to having my children. Oh, yeah, thank you. Sorry, just magical. How were the leopards? The leopards came probably half a metre away from me, just strolled past, stealthily looking for food. The lions are, oh, I'm telling you, Jessie, if I'd gone when I was 15, I'd have learned a lot about the male species and saved a lot of heartache. Why? Very selfish. Don't look out for food except for themselves, the lions. Were they the male ones?

1:49Yeah. But the females are the biggest hunters and the biggest killers. I mean, it is the circle of life, definitely. A kula mitata. that means no worries well whilst you've been there I've been in Los Angeles in the rain yeah and I've been back here um what did I eat in Los Angeles that was very very amazing I had whole bosh whole box whole bosh it's a Mexican restaurant I think it may have a Michelin star now it's lots of crudo it's lots of raw fish right up your alley mum and it's in a mercado and it was really quite beautiful that was my most memorable meal I think did you go to Greek absolutely of course the lemony potatoes are still delicious and the lamb chops well I ate a lot while I was there yeah lots of Swahili recipes oh yeah they do a very nice stew either with beef or with chicken that has peanuts in.

2:53Yum. Yeah, I think I might try and make something like that. We had something like that in the Gambia, didn't we? And it with lime. I think it's an African thing. It's so delicious. You are very excited about this, yes? Do you think I should give him some of the... I thought you were going to say something else, Mum. No, some of the saffron I bought back with me. Yes. I might start selling it on the black market. I bought loads of saffron. You know you pay about four quid for about three... Strand, yeah. Yeah, I've got that much. I'll let you have some. I'll allow you to introduce this guest, Mum.

3:23Right. Well, I've seen him on the great British menu, which I'm addicted to, as you know. Love cooking shows. He's always a real kind of breath of fresh air, really talented chef himself. Always very helpful to the people who are competing, who are other chefs. I have been very anxious about my food today. Yes. because he's got this look when things aren't quite right with the competitors it's not I'm not angry I'm just disappointed look right and I just don't want to see that face you're not competing though mum no I'm not but I just don't want to see the disappointment we have had a little upset in the kitchen yeah I've had a problem with my mango never try and puree fresh mango buy it as a pulp in a tin I should have done that yesterday but I didn't because I didn't think it was necessary so I can't do my mango frosting that's okay for my coconut cake what are you serving today so I've done some green pancakes and I think I I saw something very unlike you I mean I know it's been pancake day when we're recording this it's a yeah the week of the thing was I saw him cook um on his Instagram something that must have been a matcha sponge which was very green I I thought it looked interesting.

4:40And I came across a recipe for green pancakes. So, Hon, you've done it because you saw him do a green sponge? Yeah, kind of. I just thought I was... Paying homage. Yeah, I was paying homage. But I think I'm out of my comfort zone completely. Why? Because I've never made it before. I've used gram flour, which is interesting. Spinach. I wasn't sure. The consistency was too thick. So I added a bit more milk. and then it was a bit thin and then it took you know how your first pancake never works yeah well there was about four that didn't work right and it took me a long time to get it right so I think they're okay and also they were supposed to be 10 centimeters round I had to get my ruler out to try and make sure that they were going the right way anyway I'm not in my comfort zone I've made that I've done roasted tomatoes.

5:33I've baked some leeks that you're going to add some beans and thingies to. There's a garlicky yoghurt dip that he will never be able to speak to anyone today. It's very garlicky. And it has a fried egg on top. Gorgeous. So I've got to do that. He is coming for brunch. Yeah. So that's why we're doing this. Yeah. Very excited. Tommy Banks coming up on table mornings.

6:04Tommy Banks is in my house your house yeah I'm going to eat your food mum oh Christ I'm very excited don't be excited she's not she's terrified I've been very anxious because I love Great British Menu and you have got that face I was saying to Jessie it's I'm not angry I'm just disappointed that's a very different thing but I think the other thing about the Great British Menu is you're not supposed to give it away I know why I think, do you know, this series, I think the judges have been quite mean. Meaner than normal. How do you feel about that, Tommy? No, not the chefs, because I think the chefs are really encouraging the veteran.

6:41Mum, you were just trying to kick one of them judges out so you can get a seat at the table, maybe. Won't, but... What a job, by the way. Yeah. Because competing on it is really tough. It's so hard. Stressful, it's exhausting. I mean, incredible. but like when you get to be a judge you just rock up and eat food and tell people what you think about it and you do become a little bit like no that's rubbish and you sort of start to forget how hard it is the person i mean i watched them yesterday and the the guy who won yesterday aj oh yeah scotland yeah and they kind of where does he cook and he's indian and his food was amazing and it was so hard and the the judge was like oh don't like that tom carriage i've never heard him be quite so harsh and they were absolutely exhausted both of the guys yeah i mean you had the girl didn't you uh louisa yeah she was brilliant she was brilliant but she didn't go through no but well she got through to the judges on the friday um and yeah she was awesome yeah yeah the other guy went through yeah he was great yeah really good really talented oh it is but i think i think with the judges it's as the days go on like because if you've eaten all day sometimes By the time you're having your eighth dish, you're like, yeah, no, I'm not that fussed about that.

7:57And the poor chef's put so much effort in. The worst is like finals week when they've got to eat like eight main courses. If you're cooking the eighth, you're like, they don't want to eat this. So there's definitely a sweet spot around lunchtime. If you can cook at that time, then they're going to enjoy it. Yeah, that's true. How has your week been? You have come on your own. No entourage for Tommy Banks. No. Well, everybody wanted to come. like I've been inundated from everyone in our team and my wife wanted to come but I've been down so it was Valentine's this week wasn't it so were you away for Valentine's?

8:31no I actually had to cook Valentine's night in our pub and then get the first train down yesterday and I was working yesterday I've stayed over and so yeah so I'm on my own what did you buy for Valentine's Day? oh so are you familiar with with York or Yorkshire? yeah yeah Bette's I went to Bette's yeah no this is it so that's the only thing so I Yeah, I went to Betty's and they do these lovely little heart-shaped cookie shortbread things with the jam in the middle. So I got one for my wife and one for my little daughter. Low-key, I mean we're married now so it's not... You don't have to make an effort.

9:03She doesn't get extravagant gifts, just thoughtful ones. So I tried to go to your, well one of your restaurants. I tried to go when we were on our way up to Edinburgh when we were doing the festival. This was years ago because I definitely didn't have as many children. And we stayed in an area called Moulton. Malton, yeah. Malton, it's so lovely. Yeah, yeah. Quite near you. Yeah, quite near, yeah. There's a really cool food festival there as well. Yeah, there was so many great bits of food that, like, anyway, I am very sad to say I've never eaten at your establishment. Well, I think we better come, Jeff.

9:36We will. Because also, the train, actually, it's not that long to get there, is it? Not at all, no. From London. An hour and 50 into York, yeah. Minor. It's really commutable. That's the thing, often when I turn up here and I do something, people are like, oh it must took you hours i'm like an hour and 50 that oh took me that long from essex you know it's like the same thing so we are yeah it's well it's well connected and i mean i'm biased but it's a beautiful beautiful part of the world is that where you were born yeah no i've always lived in north yorkshire so that i mean that is where i love because i'm a farmer first before for a chef yeah so we have a farm and and that's sort of i'm really passionate about that so you're brought up on a farm yeah yeah wow what did you have um so it was mixed sort of arable and livestock then so like I I mean I don't think kids really grow up like this anymore but I grew up and like we'd milk the cow before going to school and stuff like it was proper old-fashioned even though this was like the 90s when I look at it feels like must have been in black and white um it was so long it feels so long ago but now actually it's quite nice because uh like my niece and nephew live on the farm now and they kind of have the same thing really and they're milking the calves yeah well carving season's just started so we've had our first two calves in the last two days and I've been away so I've been I've been getting the pictures through and the kids name them so they're alphabetical so a I think it was Annie and Bertie so far do you always do it alphabetically yeah yeah like hurricanes yeah exactly are they alphabetical storms are aren't they I never knew that um have you has your two-year-old been milking any of the cat will will she be doing that soon she's so grabby i wouldn't trust her poor cow yeah um no i think she will do that growing up i think it's really cool to sort of have that uh understanding and that interaction but no the poor cattle i wouldn't let her near them i wouldn't be worried i'd be worried about their safety rather than hers but when you milk now you're not doing it manually you put machinery on them so there is yeah you can use so we have two cows that we milk so it's not like a big dairy and And my dad tends to milk them on the morning.

11:41And he does have a machine, but it very rarely works. So he tends to, I don't know why, he just, you know, he fixes everything not very well. So yeah, he does milk them by hand, yeah. So talking about family, who was eating around the dinner table when you were younger? And how many brothers and sisters do you have? Yeah, so I've got one brother. So there's sort of four of us. Who's now got the farm. Yeah. And my grandma and granddad live next door on the farm as well. So it was quite a nice sort of family. It's like the Archie. Yeah, it really is. And mum, I mean, I think everyone's mum cooked from Delia Smith cookbooks.

12:14But that's what we had. All the Delia classics was what we had. She's a great cook. Oh, I love Delia. And you always look certain it will work. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the sort of things that we grew up eating. So what was a memorable dish from your childhood? Well, Sunday lunches were the one. But I have a bit of bone to pick with you because I listened to your last episode, which was your Galentines. And what did you say? you cannot get a good Sunday lunch I haven't been to your place I know you're quite famous for your roast but I actually agree with you I love that you're saying you can't get it in a pub you're like Michelin star our pub got voted the best Sunday lunch in the country so you've got to come and have that well fine, that's fine maybe you'll redeem pubs I actually think you're right the thing is it's something that's quite precious to people you make it at home and you know how you want it I like soggy Yorkshire puddings straight out the oven don't you whereas obviously in a restaurant they make them puffy and dark they take up too much space you need so much more gravy well what we do is we make giant ones but then we fill them with so if you have beef you have pulled oxtail in it or if you have pork you have pig's cheeks so you make a toad in the hole with it and I think that then becomes good so was your mum doing anything sexy in the 90s with your roasts No, God, no.

13:37And I was the fussiest eater ever. It really was, yeah. I didn't used to eat anything. There's hope for all people listening with fussy children. Yeah. I was so fussy. Like, I just used to have cheese sandwiches every day. I was terrible. So did you have the same thing? You and Nigella. Nigella was fussy too. Was she really? Yeah. You wouldn't imagine that because she's just so... Well, her mum was very strict as well, and they had to finish everything on their plate. Yeah. Oh, see, I had that problem too, but we had cats and a dog. So that's where the tactics come in. like i mean it's quite good now having a two-year-old and she throws all the food on the floor and well the dog just eats it so it's great i think animals are your friend when you're a child and you have to eat eat everything so when did things change for you was it when for for your like your taste buds well they didn't really i i was a really fussy eater as a teenager um i had no interest in food whatsoever i didn't want to be a chef um you wanted to be a cricketer yeah so I left school sort of after GCSEs with this dream I was just going to be a cricketer it's fine you were very good I was good I don't know whether I would have made it or not so who were you playing for were you playing for the county yeah yeah like representative level cricket and that was well if I didn't well if I didn't make it that I would be a coach or a physio or I don't know something in sport so in the cricket world yeah that's I think I think like a lot of young men that was pretty narrow minded on sort of sports so you were a terrible eater well you were eating your cheese sandwiches going off to cricket all the time and then what happened uh so i got a disease called ulcerative colitis when i was 18 so i'm sure lots of people know know what it is but it's basically a disease of your bowel and that was it was quite aggressive for me so i had um i saw 18 months where i had a lot of surgery i had a colostomy bag and i was 18 years old at this point so yeah it was pretty pretty rubbish times but um that put a stop to all sport and cricket and so then i'm this guy with no left school with no qualifications and no way of you know nothing to do really um and mum and dad had used to run a bed and breakfast at the farmhouse and they kind of thought well maybe we'll have a go run in the local pub so that was so they'd taken on the local pub and i just sort of I was watching TV and seeing TV chefs and stuff and I thought well I've got to throw myself into something I was quite an angry young man at the time because you know you've had it you know frustrated I want to and it was it was a muse I could sort of get into um so I just sort of fell into cooking and worked harder who were the TV chefs that you were looking at was it Jamie uh well Delia would have been on wouldn't she Gordon would have been really big at that point well you were angry weren't you yeah no I don't I wasn't angry like Gordon was angry I was more like frustrated with the world that I'd been dealt cards I wasn't particularly pleased with whereas no he's more like idiot sandwiches me um I wasn't like that um but yeah no so I think and I think that was sort of a real rise of chefs so I just sort of threw myself into the kitchen so you started watching these chefs and when did you start tasting differently um I guess having bowel surgery as well you probably were having to be really strict with your diet yeah I probably should have been.

16:49I think that's like everyone who has strict with a diet, you sort of know what you're supposed to do and you do the other thing. But isn't it better if you eat blander food? You have to be careful what you eat. Yeah, I wouldn't say blander food. Maybe just things that are difficult to digest, really. And was, once you got rid of the, is it, I'm so sorry, because I don't really, is it still, is it flare up? Is it kind of like a... So a lot of people live with the disease and they manage it and they have flare ups, things like that. Mine was too acute. So I actually had my whole bowel removed. So I had like three bouts of surgery.

17:23So yeah. But that got rid of it. Right, okay. So it was all gone, literally. And yeah, and then I started on my cooking career. But I think to answer the question, I think it takes a long time. I think you know people, like sort of dishes that you make all the time, you become very confident with them because you know exactly what they should taste like. and I think from a chef's point of view I think you just have to gain that experience through years Did you have training? No, no, no no formal training Did you work with any famous chefs? No You literally you were involved in the pub Yeah, so we we obviously employed like head chefs at the pub and I would like work under them and then when I was I was 23 the sort of head chef left and I just took over but it was winging it like I was making up as well along most of it came out of cookbooks but at 23 when you became head chef did you decide to change up the menu at that point did you feel like you knew what you were doing and when did you basically get your flair that felt your identity as tommy banks well i think it takes a long you still work your identity changes all the time isn't it but i think no at that point it definitely was very generic i want to change every dish on the menu because I want it to be mine obviously ego but um I didn't I never left home I had no experience hadn't gone uncooked anywhere so I largely did it from cookbooks really um thank big shout out to Phil Howard he he had a really good cookbook at the time I nicked some of his recipes um but I think the big thing happened sort of later about a few months later won a Michelin star and then suddenly I was the youngest chef with a Michelin star how old were you 24 24?

19:06So do you kind of feel like Phil won that Michelin star? I'm joking I hope he doesn't listen because he might steal right now but that was very difficult because obviously I was growing up in the middle of nowhere as well I wasn't used to media or anything and suddenly your youngest Michelin star chef so I was sitting down with journalists and they were like you must be some sort of genius and I was thinking I literally know massive imposter syndrome so I was like oh god I really need to get this thing now like this identity this purpose so um I was like well the only thing I know about is farming and growing up in the countryside so I was like I'm just gonna cook with things that we farmed things that we grow and things I can forage and I put these like very strict um things in place these sort of and that I think promotes a lot of creativity because suddenly you have to make a dish out of what you've got and that sort became my style and then I think we did have very interesting food after that I come on you you got a Michelin star like there's a reason you got it like there's a question from a cook no that you you must have been adapting recipes yeah I think I think just also just a ruthless hard work um so at that period because I was wanting to sort of achieve I worked every day of the week and I cooked every single dish that left so I kind of there was no management I just literally did it all and that's how I knew it was going to be good and I guess that's why we went to Mission Star because I was single-handedly making everything perfect.

20:35It's talent as well and also understanding food and I mean you could follow a recipe and it might not work or it might work brilliantly just because you know how to do it so you can't I mean 24 is real I can understand the pressure but also you obviously had such drive from a young age whether that was wanting to be a cricketer and of course that got derailed so unfairly and then you're like I mean you're tenacious like you've got like this but were you eating at restaurants to taste different things I did start going out and eating trying things I remember the first time I went to Gordon Ramsay's restaurants that was the first which one?

21:20the three mission star royal hospital road in chelsea it was the first like really posh place i've ever been i remember wearing like my school leavers suit and it didn't really fit because it's like growing i remember feeling like so uncomfortable um why did you choose there uh because it was like the the best restaurant in the country at the time um and i i really vividly remember that because i just remember being so nervous and scared and you look back now you think I'm going, why would you feel nervous and scared about going out for dinner? But that's, I did seek a lot of inspiration from, you know, places like that, for sure.

21:55But I always make a real point when I see like real young, because you often get real young chefs who come and eat in the restaurant. They do look a bit sort of nervous and scared. I always try and make a point of going over and putting them at ease and talking to them because like you should never go out for dinner and feel nervous. But I do feel like food and dining has changed. like it used to be when you go to Michelin it was fine dining and that meant you know it was quite stuffy yeah totally um and in a sense more elitist than maybe it is now what food that is winning Michelin stars so I think you know you look at something like Thomas Perry with with Mountain that just got Michelin I think yeah and that is like very much like a bustling yeah vibey restaurant where where do you like to eat in yorkshire where would you go if you're not eating at your spot where would be the first place that you'd go and what would be the dish that you would have so there's a really cool pizza restaurant called cresci which is run by two italian guys and it's proper neapolitan pizza it's like really good um but you know like i just love the way italians do hospitality it's like really family friendly so like you can take the kids in it feels really great and there's just like you know they bring you a little limoncello at the end you don't want it but it's kind of nice it's nice that they've given you it right it feels hospitable yeah we had a guest on recently a guy called jacob collier who has limoncello on his rider i was like you are the only bugger having that because no one likes no one likes it's like medicine also the poor like that's not something anyone has in this in their cupboard anywhere is it so so you know that everywhere he goes there's some poor runner going out and having to buy it.

23:41Yeah, right. Weird ride. So what would be, what's your pizza order there? I always have something with a little bit of meat on it, something spicy, but whatever they've got on the specials. And then, well, shout out to anybody who's in York, but they never have tiramisu on the menu. But if you ask the waitress for tiramisu, she'll wink at you and she'll go in the back and bring it out. Oh my God, an off menu thing. Yeah, we love that. How cool is that? That's why it's, that's what restaurants should be like. Is that because it's you? Well, they have, they must make them real quick if they are making them I feel like they have them but it's just like an if you know you know and I love that about restaurants that's like animal fries in a in and out burger in California what?

24:20yeah animal fries are they? well it used to be a thing I think please tell me it used to be a thing that wasn't on the menu but everyone would be like oh I'll get the animal fries and it was just like it's like a fast food chain I know but it's really good though it's tasty yeah I thought it was awful oh alright but it just tastes like you know the way it tastes like it's been chewed before that's okay it's served oh i kind of know what you mean yeah so so is your daughter your two-year-old daughter she could eat her rubbish uh she was really good uh and now she's gone gone rubbish because often like um if i'm like cooking on tv i'll bring the ingredients home and just do a little run through at home sometimes because it's sort of too easy at work and you want to cook on something which isn't very good like my stove at home and then you sort of feel equipped to do it on tv and sometimes i just want to tweak things or whatever and i cook things and my daughter would just eat them like i remember roasting a whole mallard and at home and it was like eight o 'clock in the morning i was like to my wife charlotte i was like would you like some mallard she was like no it's eight o 'clock in the morning and i was i'm just doing it so i can just like i'm happy i've done that now before i do it on on camera and i just walk over mallard breasts and she just eat it and i was like wow my daughter is the daughter of a chef.

25:35Now, no, she just eats, yeah, she won't eat anything really. What about your nine-year-old? Really fussy as well, yeah. Oh, Matt, well, there's still hope though, isn't there? Yeah. You just have to wait, you know, 20 years. Alex was really fussy. I think it's all right though. I think like kids are fussy. Yeah. Yeah. But your wife. Yeah, and I want to know how you fitted romance in to this busy... I was going to actually just ask what your wife's best dish was, but Ron wants to know a little bit more. No I want to know how you met him because you're busy working you haven't been well so you've been at home and then you start to cook in the pub.

26:12And as you say you were doing every dish you were seven days a week how did you give yourself time for romance? So I mean I think from that I met Charlotte a few years later than that and I think but I did start by that stage I had a team and I was doing my own rota so then you know suddenly you start rotaring yourself off on Saturday evenings and things like that where did you see her? our first date I actually made a little picnic and we went for a walk but neither has ate it you know when you're really nervous too busy kissing? not on the first date it wasn't that successful you over conversate don't you so I think I made a huge spread and then we probably ate next to nothing what was in the spread?

27:00do you remember? I like a picnic sort of thing where it's like sausage rolls homemade sandwiches I think some of it was homemade some of it was from a deli not from M &S but from like a deli because you I love M &S but you can tell that it's M &S whereas I think you can you know pull it off a bit more if it's from a deli is Charlotte a good is it Charlotte? yeah yeah is Charlotte she's a fan of the podcast mum and we're very sad that you're not here Charlotte why didn't you bring her? oh because she wasn't here yeah is she a good cook? she's a brilliant cook she's a very good baker like much better than I am at that sort of thing it's a different skill isn't it almost yeah and also I think cooking at home is a different skill like I make a mess at home I get frustrated whereas she just sort of glides around and makes beautiful cakes but no she rang me up yesterday and she said have you listened to the latest podcast and I was like no and she was like you need to listen because Jessie says you can't get a good Sunday roast anywhere that's fine thank you Charlotte because I will be coming to eat and you will be joining me.

28:00Do you want me to do the... Yeah, you can do the leaves. No, should I do the fried eggs? No, I'll do them again. Oh, we have them fried eggs. Well, yeah, do you want to know what we're having? Yes. Okay, she's been very stressed. I've been very stressed because I wanted to not impress you but not disappoint you. I am just happy to be fed. I know. But so I've made these green pancakes. Tell me why. Because I was looking at all your Instagram posts And I did want to know that piece of beef that you were cooking on the bone. Oh, yeah. On a barbecue. It looked so fascinating. Was it Tomahawk? What was...

28:35Oh, it looked fabulous. So I noticed that you'd served a green kind of matcha sponge that was a little round thing. That was a dessert. And you were putting... Or someone was putting... It was on your Instagram, definitely. I'm trying to think what that's going to be. So I've done... Anyway, I've done these green pancakes that are made with spinach and herbs. Okay. and gram flour. It's like a high-protein thing. Oh, healthy. Very healthy. Gluten-free, I think, too, yeah. Yeah, it's gram flour. Because it's chickpea flour. Gram flour is a chickpea flour. So it's got cottage cheese and all different things.

29:10Oh, my God, yeah, you can go to the gym after this time. But it was stressful because it looked too thick, so I added some more milk and then possibly shouldn't have added the milk. So you know, like, the first pancake is never very good. Yeah. The first three words. And also they said 10 centimetres diameter. So I got my ruler out to make sure I was... Do you think Tommy cares if they're... I care. Okay. So anyway, I've made these green pancakes and you serve them with a fried egg. Mum, you're sounding a bit Kathy Bates in misery at this point. He's literally running for the door. Yeah, he is.

29:46And garlicky yoghurt. And then we've done what else? Some roasted tomatoes. And I've done something that actually doesn't suit it. I've just done some beans and leek with bay leaves and then you can have it on toast and with some creme fraiche. Sounds great. Yeah. Anyway. It's a lot. Shall I get pregnant? You're going to be overwhelmed, I think, and a bit like... And then I've just been... I've just been to... There's no meat, though. No meat. Do you mind? I don't mind. No, but we've got eggs. Oh, he hesitated. I know. Well, I mean, I'm a Yorkshire farmer, so like, here's meat, but I mean, eggs...

30:19But it's brunch, you see. I didn't want to give it... Right. Do you cook your eggs in butter or would you cook them in oil? Butter. I would as well. So I was just going to do that, but I didn't want to end anyone. So I'll get on and crack on with the eggs. Would you like me to just do it and then you and Tommy can talk? Well, you can't. No, I don't trust you. I'm very good at eggs, Mum. I'm actually really good at eggs. Thank you. You need to sort your leeks out. I will. You carry on. Would you like two eggs? I'd love two eggs. Yes, definitely. Certainly. There's more eggs in the fridge, Jess.

30:55Do I need to warm up the pancakes? They're warm, I think, because they're in here. And where's the yogurt? It's in the fridge. You see, this is why it's easier to dip myself. Just let me do it. No, it's easier, I'm telling you. I love... This is actually everybody's family dynamic, though. Yeah. I said, no, you don't need that. Unless you want to put it on, I was going to leave it. Would you like him to assemble his own pancake? No. So I obviously grew up in a bed and breakfast so every morning going ready for school mum and dad were doing breakfast service They only had like six people in But this is what it was like my dad would do fried eggs and toast and my mum would do everything else And they would try and coordinate it and they would bicker and fight and you just sort of get your Get your school bag on and just sink out the back door

31:46They look great Hold on they're all no darling we don't want to serve it up like that that's like very very Instagram that isn't it putting the pan down it's not very Instagram it's very what Jessie does so we ask everyone what's your last supper yeah and you've heard what Jessie's would be yeah I also heard I quite liked yours more actually thank you chicken liver parfait or duck liver parfait yeah I mean I love something like that as a starter do you like chutney with it? do you know Someone said to me they don't like chutney with chicken with a potato. Yeah, I'm not that fussed about it. Like, same with cheese.

32:24Like, I just want to eat the cheese. Do you know what I mean? Or like all the bits. Yeah, I've been really happy just... Eat start, because I'm just... Yes, chef, sorry. Can we get some butter? No, sorry. There is nice butter there. I was going to say steak tartare, but I'm going to have a Sunday roast. What do you have steak tartare? I'm going to have a Sunday roast, though, for my main course. I can't have beef and then beef. Oh, I can have roast pork. rather than roast beef. Yeah, yeah. Because I love crackling. Are you a good crackling maker? I am. I'd like to think I am a good crackling maker, yeah.

32:56Yeah. So, yeah, let's go. So, you're going to have a roast? Steak ta-ta. I'm going to have a roast pork with all the trimmings, my Yorkshire puddings. What is it like? It's delicious. The pancake's lovely. Do you like them? Yeah, the fried eggs are perfect. Thank you. So, for pudding, probably a trifle. Like, it's just a great dessert. It's got everything, hasn't it? Custard, cream, sponge, jelly, booze fruit. Do you put jelly in yours? I don't. Really not? Twifles have jelly in, right? No, but I don't like the jelly, so I just put raspberries in, but really soak the sponge with the raspberries, so that's how I like it.

33:35Very lovely. Did you get the chilli? I'm telling you what you're allowed to have. Okay, hi. Which jelly, which flavour? Raspberry, strawberry Strawberry trifle Yeah Oh, strawberry and raspberry together would be nice Yeah Yeah, yeah And it's the custard and the cream It's the custard and cream It's exceptional Last Christmas my wife actually made a Nigella recipe And it was rhubarb trifle But it had vermouth in it It had red vermouth in it Oh, yeah Is it good? Oh, so nice, yeah Oh, yeah Do you want a little bit of that on there? I'm good, this is delicious, thank you what's your you know you've been in london what's your first stop for food in london oh that's such a good question i'm always in london for work not for um not usually for pleasure but me and my brother because we run a restaurant at lord's cricket ground so when do you do that when it's when all the test matches are on honestly it's the dream but you go and be able to watch as well oh yeah i get i've got the first not even head chef like are you just like kind of Well, the first year I ran around a lot and it was really busy, but I've managed to get to a point where I'm better operating it so I can spend a lot more time watching.

34:47We have, I don't know if he's a friend, but he's the person that told me about you years ago. Felix White. Oh, Felix, yeah, yeah, yeah. You've known him for a long time, right? Well, so Felix, obviously Maccabees, but... Oh, were you a fan of the Maccabees? Yeah. Oh, okay. But I'm a massive cricket fan as well. And that's where he's tragically in love with cricket in the same way that I am. So I sort of met him through Tailenders, his podcast, which is super popular. And yeah, he's got an amazing book actually. It's so good. And it's just... It's always summer. Always summer somewhere. It's always summer somewhere.

35:27And it's sort of his life, but through cricket. And that's how I sort of grew up. I can remember tragic things in my life or great things in life by what was happening in the cricket. like I'll always know that Ben Duckett got 100 on the day that I was recording Table Manners with you guys because that's what's happened this morning and it got 100 so that's the sort of thing I don't really know anybody else who's that tragically in love with cricket and then obviously met Felix and he really is he is mad about it cricket is anonymous I don't know it's an addiction isn't it who's your favourite cricketer oh my god who's my favourite cricketer See, that's sort of, as a kid, like, you obviously have favourite cricketers, whereas I kind of meet people nowadays.

36:13I mean, I'm a Yorkshireman, so I'm going to, like, I know Johnny quite well. Johnny Berstow is, like, one of my favourite players. Or Ben Stokes. Jimmy Anderson. I know his name, yes. So he does the podcast with Felix. So Jimmy's... I think he's someone who's just brought back in. So he's 42. Yeah. And he's still, and he's a fast bowler. so fast bowling's like the hardest most taxing thing and he still performs at 42 he's like the best player were you a fast bowler? yeah maybe there's time for you come again as a fast bowler he's like his incredible shape I think that's just like very inspiring that someone can do it he's been here for like 20 years how do you have that stamina to want to do it for that long?

37:00I'm going to change because I find cricket so boring I'm so sorry I do I don't get it I never get it Felix he talks about it with such passion it goes on and on and on and maybe I go because your food would be good five days of it yeah fuck that and it's near it's near and you're cooking maybe I will try it oh come what do you drink when you're sitting there watching the cricket well the amazing thing about Lords is you're allowed to bring a bottle of wine in with you so you bring your own you're kidding yeah so imagine that as a sport that's good isn't it I'm going to give you an elevator pitch for cricket.

37:35Okay. It's a game that is built around eating. You stop for lunch. Okay, now we're talking, Tommy. You stop for afternoon tea. No, stop. Yes. What? So it might be five days long, but you start at a very leisurely 11 o 'clock in the morning. Even when you're playing locally, darling, they have tea. No. Yes. You have full cooked three course lunch at one o 'clock. And then at four o 'clock, you have a full afternoon tea with cakes, sandwiches No wonder they're taking so bloody long Yeah Jesus they could cut that whole game down to one day and say but I do like the food thing Yeah exactly So it's So do the cricketers have the three course meal too?

38:16Yeah yeah Shut up Yeah Oh yeah No Stop And they have the afternoon tea? Yeah Yeah So and it's like any other sport you'd be so elite sport you know you'd have to look after your diet like they get and then like they just like you have afternoon tea with a cup of tea. Oh my God, I'm going to be a cup of tea. It's the only game where tea is performance in Hampton. They're going back to be able to watch their weight though, otherwise they can't run. Well, the thing with cricket is because it lasts so long and say if you're a bowler, you don't bat, so you might get like a day where you just get to put your feet up in the middle of it.

38:46Oh, okay. You're selling it to me. Yeah, you see them on the scoreboard with their feet up on that little thing. Yeah, they're playing Sudoku or something with the shades on, just eating. Yeah. I'm actually... You've turned me.

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40:15I know we're cooking you eggs now, but how do you like your eggs in the morning? I have eggs every morning. So does Nigella put eggs on toast? So I usually have an omelette. Okay, what's in it? Cheese and ham. just really simple I have that most mornings or you don't ever do a little flourish like will it be a sexy cheese or will it be like a good cheddar yeah so I herbs ideally two cheeses so you want a nice hard cheddar and then something gooey like a brie or a camembert in an omelette oh because it's so rich and delicious oh my god I've never ever heard of gooey brie in an omelette oh really and you'd have that in the morning yeah I love that every morning yeah so I but no colour on it so a knob of butter goes in you melt it and you fold them salted or non-salted yeah salt yeah have you seen the bear when she made the omelette I tried to watch the bear but I found it too triggering yeah and loads of cooks say that chefs say that but I think you've got to move on just to watch that omelette being made maybe it's on I've copied the omelette is it so maybe that's probably how I make my omelette I need to know do you do is it a French style one where you i mean in the morning do you really care enough to like almost like it's going to be scrambled eggs yeah creamy and then let it set yeah so okay yeah does it always look beautiful yeah but i've done it a thousand times so and i make my wife she doesn't like she thinks someone was too rich than one so she likes boiled eggs uh and i was getting really angry recently because i've been making her boiled eggs and i would always mess them up so i'd make me a beautiful i'm at her boiled eggs and i'd always overcook them and i was like getting really annoyed with it how many minutes do you cook your well this was the problem um and then obviously if she didn't eat them straight away then they'd overcook because they'd sit there and i was just actually really annoyed with it so i actually bought one of them little egg cookers have you seen them they're like no eight quid off amazon and it's like this little dome and you put in the eggs and some water you turn a dial and it literally cooks them perfectly every time i'm getting one so selfishly i can then spend more time on making my omelette beautiful and then i have perfect boiled eggs for my wife.

42:24What's your poor children eating? Oh, well, she doesn't eat, does she? That's fine. Do you think you've got good table manners? Oh my God, now I'm thinking. I mean, I spilled some, I spilled egg on myself. That's okay. I spilled a little bit on the table. Don't worry. I think so. I think there's a fair bit of etiquette when you run restaurants. So I think so. Do you care about table manners? No. I don't. I mean, I feel like I'll try and teach my kids to have good table manners, but I think it's about feeling comfortable. And like I came into your house, I'm having brunch at your house today and like I feel really comfortable and happy and relaxed.

43:01Is that because we argue? I want to ask you a little question. Do you think that sous chefs should be supportive or interfere? Do you feel you're falling into a trap? By the way, that feels a really loaded question. She's asking because she said that I had too many opinions today and I was the sous chef today. So don't worry. I think it's my house, my cooking, and then you see how she took over. Yeah, I think you need to sort of maybe just work on the overall dynamic. Think there's no chance of that. Do you think Lenny should not scream at me? Well. How do you treat your sous chef? I wouldn't scream at my sous chef, but I'm working in a family business and working with my brother, really because my brother's two years older than me and we fought like cat and dog and i actually don't think you can compare family to any other relationship and that's the beauty of it because it's okay to yeah we just swear and tell me to fuck off yeah but but it's then kind of fine as well because it's it's family like me and my brother they might have like scrapes and fights we get into with one another and it was so embarrassing in front of all the all the team but it's kind of all right because it's your brother you absolutely could not treat any other a human being the way you treat your siblings so could you so I think that's a different dynamic

44:26oh my god well oh your god isn't I'm not a baker so it might not be do you want another cup of tea with that just could you move his plate I can clear my own plate oh my god right I'm not a baker but I just had so much coconut while I was away and I just thought so what's in the cake then coconut desiccated coconut oh it feels a bit hard not quite interested that's why I don't like desiccated coconut oh for god's sake don't have it shut up I'm going to try this though I call it defecated coconut because I just think it's not the best but I'm really interested to try it Jesus the bomb you just dropped the diplomacy's gone out the window oh my god this is passion fruit whipped cream with a bit of cream cheese in it That looks awesome.

45:17You can hide the defecated coconut. That looks lovely. But like bounties are always the one that's left in the tin. No, that's my first one out. Stop it. We could spend Christmas together. Yeah, we could. Yeah. How much is it offending you? It's not. I much prefer this to a bounty. I hate bounties. They are terrible. I thought eventually they would take them out. Because I thought no one actually ate them, but apparently you'd rather eat them. I would buy them specially. I think it's the texture thing, though, more than the flavour of coconut. It's like you put your molars together. You can kind of like squash it, doesn't it?

45:58Like, so a little bit squashy. Apart from desiccated coconut, which has just been served to you, what would be the thing that stays in your store, in your larder, that you just kind of go, I should be using this, but I can't be fat. Oh. I don't know but I'll tell you what I really don't like is baked beans so I would never take them out of the cupboard I mean there's some over there as well because I can't fit them in I gave you beans as well no it's baked beans I think people have this nostalgia thing oh I love beans and I'm like why though they're horrible what's your problem with them? well they don't have a lot of flavour they're kind of just sweet and the texture's rubbish and the sauce is kind of I also think it might be like a trauma thing as well because in kitchens that is like if the kitchen is just so busy and they don't have time to make a proper staff meal they just do like beans and maybe that's association as well but oh god I can't stand baked beans and it's always on a breakfast as well isn't it do you do a nice version of baked beans if you do a breakfast thing no I just don't do them because I was in the hotel this morning and I was watching people ladling their beans out of the big tureens I was like which hotel were you in?

47:19I don't even know what it was called one day at Westminster what about a jacket potato? oh absolutely not that's like the worst see that is what people say they're like ooh jacket potato with beans and cheese said it last week actually yeah last supper oh yeah I'm really oh yeah you're that person why would you why would it offend you so much though but it's good with the potato it's not on toast no i just i hate them i really hate baked beans okay so anyone who is potentially going to go on great british menu don't do baked beans or coconut coconut will you do coconut like no i like the flavor of coconut but it's just texture okay well i think we've got away with this because it's kind of few and far between it's got us on top yeah but this is really tasty it's nice but yeah not beans not beans tommy before you go um and i book my reservation for your roast yeah um what is a nostalgic taste or smell from well it doesn't have to be from your childhood but something that brings back and evokes lots of memories happy or sad uh mint so my grandma and ground they used to have like you know what mint's like if you have it in your garden it just goes crazy and grows they have this massive mint bush and they always used to put it in because i think they had loads they put it in everything and then everything used to get cooked in a pressure cooker as well so when you come around it would just smell of mint and i think that that just brings lots of happy memories that all the potatoes always cooked with mint i think that's delicious and lamb and things like that so yeah that flavor of that smell of mint i really like i love that Do you like karaoke?

49:00I mean, I'm literally tone deaf. I can't sing. Okay. But what would you sing if you could? Oh, like a ballad. Oh, a ballad? Well, you have to really, don't you, for karaoke? I thought you might rap. Oh, God, really? Or rock and roll, yeah. I don't know. I think, well, for karaoke, you've got to go for something really super cheesy, haven't you? Okay, so tell me which song. I would sing like Tina Turner or something if we were doing karaoke. Simply the best? or what's love got to do with it yes or share yeah turn that time believe I remember being a kid and I remember being on top of the pops and thinking that was really cool believe would be cool do you ever get to go to festivals sometimes like cooking at festivals are you cooking at wilderness this year no but I have done before it's a really weird dynamic that because obviously everyone's off the face and you're sort of supposed, and people are paying a lot of money for what you're cooking as well.

49:58I've done the chef's table there where it's like, you have like 24 people sat around and you're cooking. And like the first, you do like four sittings a day. So 12 o 'clock is actually like really quite civilized and people are really into the food. And the second lunch one's a bit more like boozy. The two in the evening, like a couple of years ago I did it, I just had two people who were totally naked. You're joking. Which is like cool, but like you're like, supposed to be doing these full dish descriptions. You'd be like, yeah, so we poached the chicken for this long and you're shaving a bit of truffle over it and you're just like looking at them and you're like you've got no clothes on and they're just like mmhmm yeah mmhmm yeah why did they have no clothes on?

50:33because they're at a festival and they're having a nice time I've never seen that Jessie I mean look have you been somewhere I will be dressed when I'm at the chef's table if you've been to Wilderness do you know where the chef's table is there's like a beautiful lake and everyone goes swimming in the lake so they came out they came out of the lake and as they came out I was like oh not wearing anything and they just came out but how did they pay they've got no pockets oh I think you paid beforehand okay was that really the thing I just wondered yeah so yeah it's this kind of like yeah you just you get into it by the evening you just start drinking with everyone because it's like you can't take yourself to join them yeah well you can't be like shaving truffle over someone's dinner while they've got the boobs out you know it's just like doesn't work I would not but you wouldn't know where to look would you really I'm like breast of chicken.

51:25You really don't. But you know what it's like with things that you just don't look, do you? So you don't make icons that you don't do anything. Oh, God, that is so awkward. Yeah. It must have backfired on them, though, because they must have thought, well, this will be really cool. We'll just be naked. And when you sat there for two hours having a dinner cooked for you, suddenly you'd probably feel very naked, I think. Tommy, thanks so much for being on the podcast. It's been such a pleasure to chat to you. Yeah, it's been great. Thank you for having me. And the food was delicious. You're so sweet.

51:51so you're not angry no you're not disappointed I don't think it was worth the stress that you went through no okay I agree I was going to give you fried eggs with a bit of sage and and Ravinda Bogle said just give chefs simple stuff but I'm sure he appreciates it was delicious and clean plates and I hope your garlic sauce by the time you get home yeah apologies to Charlotte yeah

52:28Well, Tommy Banks is just lovely. Still swimming. I kept on thinking that I had like a Peaky Blinder in the room with like his name. I kept on thinking Tommy Banks. I don't know. He does sound like a rock star, doesn't he? Yeah. Probably. He'll probably end up putting an album out because he's so prolific. He's a very good advert for Yorkshire. In what sense, Mum? Because he inspires kind of like Yorkshire, the land, the pubs, the food, the cricket. The men. The men. No, he's very, very handsome. We had a really lovely time talking to Tommy. He was so, I think he was quite surprised that the set up is as chaotic and real.

53:15Made him feel at home. He does have the most garlic breath because I actually, I can taste it. It's lingering. Yeah. Well, he didn't look too disappointed or angry. But you did give him something that he absolutely hates, which none of us would have known. But how, why don't people tell you? So you don't make the biggest faux pas. Also, Tommy, do you have good table manners? Yeah, I think so. By the way, I hate desiccated coconut as you place it down on the table. But he did eat it all. He did. The cream was very nice. Oh, God. And he hates bounties. I mean, I don't know people that hate bounties.

53:48It does make me trust him slightly less. Yeah, me too. But hey, you know. Tommy Banks, thank you so much. You can go to any three of his restaurants. You can spot all the exciting stuff that has coming out at the end of the year. He's got produce that you can order online. He's got wine. He's got pubs. He's got Michelins. He's got everything, to be fair. We'll speak to you next week. Thanks so much for listening.

54:33We'll be right back.

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