Zoe Ball

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1:05Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm sitting directly in the sun. Darling, that's where you light, the light on your beautiful face. I don't know about that. But anyway, we have a wonderful guest coming today. So excited. We're in New Crossgate. Yeah, she's schlepping. She's schlepping. We've been cooking. And we're doing a Greek meze today. because in keeping with the new television show that Zoe Ball and I are on Mamma Mia I Have a Dream we thought why not bring it back to our beautiful Greek romance back in May if you haven't seen Mamma Mia I Have a Dream it's a show which is trying to find the new Sophie and Skye for the West End show Mamma Mia and we both were very excited we're on the same flight out there and we were kind of a bit like what is this month gonna hold for us and we just really loved it it was amazing it's on your screens now i of course ordered for the table obviously and she seemed to appreciate that was it as fun as it looks yeah oh my god we just had such a giggle i felt like i was kind of on a summer camp like club where you yeah i felt quite young and like you're meeting all these new people making friends having a hoop and also the sun's out and you're having a giros every other day and no responsibility that too yeah it was amazing but zoe was there i loved working with her she was so positive with the contestants so warm really looked after them always looked fabulous and um i got to hear a few kind of 90s zoe ball stories which i hope that she she offers up on the table today she's you know zoe ball's pretty rock and roll like she's been on our screens forever I went I was in the audience for live and kicking and um now she's in our ears and on our screens but she's she's been working how long she's been I mean what she's been in telly for three decades and she's still sunny and positive yeah and she's killing it and she's amazing and I'm looking forward to having her for brunch you know she actually suggested we had some kind of greek food it's almost like dinner time for her she'll have been up since three in the morning i'd have thought we've we've divvied it up i've done i'd like to say i've done the majority today you have done i'm just gonna let everyone know i do i have a time i have advised yes you have i've been integral and yes you have you've exactly this yes um so on the menu today is a bit of a meze so you've done spanakopita little triangle labor of love darling yeah don't let anyone forget ever forget how long it takes to to make those little triangles okay so you've done that yeah i've made a baked feta and tomato dip that was that easy now this let's shout out this chef because he was really excited john gregory smith yeah and he does lots of kind of sexy dips and salads um loves middle eastern food turkish and greek stuff um this is a baked feta tomato dip because i felt like obviously you need to do feta but i can i didn't want to do the feta in philo with honey and sesame because you were doing your spanakopita so i've done a melitz what do you call it um it's not melitzani because that's italian it's like you've done an aubergine i've done an aubergine dip which actually a shout out to georgina hayden from her book taverna um so it's a greek she's greek cypria she's an amazing amazing cook so i got a dip out of her book i'm making a salad also john gregory smith salad peach radicchio rocket cherry tomatoes with a date molasses uh vinaigrette which actually i didn't have date molasses so i use probably going to rastas it'll be slightly sharper but so that's a salad and then for it's not really a pud but when we were on holiday i I went to a taverna, which I love, just do Greek yogurt, like smeared on a plate.

5:12And then I've made a carrot jam, which they wouldn't tell me the recipe when I was like, this is amazing. It was so simple. They just give it to you at the end of the thing. And I said, what is it? And they went, oh, it's just carrots and, you know, jam. And I was like, OK. So I got out of them that there was a bit of vanilla in it and cinnamon. We've kind of zhuzhed it up a bit with a bit of bay leaf, lemon. I didn't have orange. Anyway, carrot jam with yogurt. It's going to be a bit Marmite. Like some people are going to be, what is this? Darling, do you know what I read when I was looking for recipes for carrot jam?

5:42That they used to use it, carrots in the war to make jam because they couldn't access fruit. So it was an easy, they could get hold of carrots and grow them. They used to make jam out of it. Fascinating. Yeah. Thanks for that. And yeah, Zoe Ball's coming up on Table Manners.

6:13Zoe Ball, you've just come from your breakfast show with so many gifts for us. You've just stopped at a deli and got us flowers. We've got cannolis, we've got feta, which I've now used in the recipe. You're just the best and you've come in still happy. What time did you wake up this morning? I was going to ask the same question. Firstly, you can't come empty-handed. and I'm hoping that my my produce that I bring it will make up for the fact that I am a terrible cook and I know nothing about food so I'm in the perfect place so this is making up for your terrible answers you'll be appalled and shocked but what time do I get up today?

6:53About five? never sleep though, never sleep the night before I've already had a lovely chat with your mum about pooing pooing? Oh, we're going there. People who do shift work will know. Well, your whole system is not... You know what, Zoe? I think this is an ongoing... We talked about pooing in Greece. We talked about pooing because when we were in Greece, I would get up, have a coffee, chat to Alan over the garden wall, have a lovely poo, go to work. It's a whole different thing. Did you ask Alan if you'd been? I didn't ask Alan about pooing. In fact, Alan looked horrified at one point where we were all putting on our nude-coloured fat pants in the room with him, and he was like, enough already.

7:36Enough already. And there was a conversation about sex toys at one point as well. What's he in there for that? I don't know. It was something about ordering sex toys online and too many turning up, or none turning up. Oh, my God. I did not see this or hear this. I think he was like, at that point, can I have my own dressing room, please? This is turning into a porno podcast. And Mum likes it. Have you turned out? Is it still, are they Chris? No, they're still not crispy. I'm a bit worried for you, mum. How high is the oven? Your oven's so shit. How high is the oven, darling? Seriously. Do you want it, like, blazing?

8:11No, it should be... Then I'd just turn it off now and just leave them... That's going to make it steam up, no? I don't know, darling. Let's blast it for two more minutes. Okay. Zoe, there's one of these operations. Yeah, I wouldn't even know if it wasn't... I serve my kids raw food all the time. But they are cooked. But I don't understand. It'll be great. It'll be amazing. So Zoe, back to you. It's very interesting. You're always the one asking me questions. I know. It is not a natural state for me to be in. I don't normally go on podcasts because I always want to ask questions. But I have to say, Jessie, you do that as well.

8:46Jessie's really good. She'll come on my show and then ask us all questions. You're like, Jessie, we're here to talk about you. Yeah. Well, I'm here to talk about you. I want to know if you always... So my niece rang me this morning and said, is Zoe Ball on the podcast? Thanks for the spoiler, though. She listens. You and Joe Wicks are the only two that have announced it before. I can have them edit that. No, it's gone out. Has it gone out? Terrible. It was live, Zoe. It's so exciting. I was sorry. And she said, please tell her she brightens up every single morning of my life. Yes, I love your niece.

9:18Yeah. I love her. Is it ever hard, though, when you're maybe feeling, maybe not like you need to cheer up a nation if you're feeling like how do you get into the zone to be honest i love my job i've always loved it i love being a buffoon and uh dancing around as and also my team they are such a laugh i mean they're all half my age their parents are all younger than me but you go in and the first thing you do it's really bad bbc coffee which is just unforgivable frankly um but that's what we have to do until six o 'clock when the local coffee shops open um so we all have a coffee what's everyone done over the weekend and they are just such a laugh and we all know each other so well you know it's like any family that there are you know there's scandals and gossip and da da da da and then we're like oh come on let's talk to the nation and also i'm always gobsmacked how many people are up at that time of day so many people are up so really you're paid to play some tunes and chat a bit of nonsense and it is so much fun and it's not, as my dad always points out, not a proper job.

10:24So I kind of love it. And, you know, my bowels might not work and I might be a bit grumpy about four o 'clock and need a nap, but it's just a joy and I love it. Jessie, take them out, darling. Just take them out. Are they going to be... Are you going to be disappointed then? They're better. Okay, darling. I don't know what they are. I'm fascinated. I'm a phallicopter. I love phallicopter. Good, good, good. Yeah, I hope so. so my I was lucky letting that terrible cook never been able to cook awful and I always had amazing flatmates who cooked so my friend David or my friend Vicky and they I'd come in and be a bit pathetic with a ready meal and be like oh and they'd go let me cook you something and David would always make me spend a coffee turn he's the best oh really I hope is it quite tricky to make yeah it was tricky last night I was listening to the rugby oh fantastic I don't know you're a rugby fan I'm not.

11:20It's just on Radio 5. I like football. Yeah, I like Redbrain. Do you know what? I never used to like it. And then I was friends with someone who did. So I used to watch it quite a lot. I don't really understand the rules. They change a lot. The great thing is you don't need to know. But you can watch it. And they're big and burly. Yeah, enthusiastic. Enthusiastic. And they're pretty darn good at it. So you get up at 5. So do you go to bed very early? No, I'm useless at that. So what time do you go to bed? Well, ideally I'd probably go about nine, but I don't. Because there's always something to watch, there's something to catch up on.

11:55You know, it's kind of hard to go to bed before your kids. So do you have a sleep in the day? So I occasionally have a nana nap. I do like a nana nap. Oh, I love sleep in the day. Oh, God, it's just the way forward, isn't it? It's the best thing on earth. It's so lovely when no one bothers you. Yeah, but I don't do it very often. So I'm always slightly grumpy and a bit twitchy. but then in the evening I like to sleep at the one show or you know I like to listen to Jo Wiley because she plays brilliant music and then if I'm still listening during Trevor Nelson's show then I'm in trouble because then it's well late but do you have to catch up at the weekend yeah and when you're on holiday a Saturday morning nice lion who a nice lion what's your version of a lion now you're like nine o 'clock no do you know I'm like a bear we're like bears us lot Woody's the same we are if we once we're out that's it we're done we're gone menopause played a bit of havoc with the sleep for a while do you sleep right through the night?

12:53oh god yeah oh you're so lucky I would hibernate Lenny I don't understand why we don't gather nuts and berries find a cave go underground after Christmas New Year come back out in March oh my god look at this piece slightly dark I knew she was going to say it I knew she was going to say it why did you do that? it's going to be fine why did you do it darling? I know it's going to taste fine and Zoe doesn't mind. I don't mind. It's too dark. You overdid it. Why do you do that? But that's what happens to regular people like us. No. One side is cooked better than... Don't say fuck off under your mat there.

13:34I saw that. Shut up. Do you know what? I love this though because I have a 13-year-old daughter going on 18. That's great. And there's a lot of eye-rolling in our relationship and she's very... Was Jessie always very spirited and sassy? No, she's always been good fun. She was easy. Right. All right, so this is too hot, but just help yourself, and I'll get some actual things that you can help yourself with. This looks amazing. Have an overdone spanakopita. Oh, you just had to get that little shady dig in there, didn't you? But I'm all for it. I'm all for it. Can I just go straight in on the spanakopita?

14:10Yeah, I'll need you to go straight in. This is my, ah, this is joy of choice. If these are dry, you're dead. Fuck off. Does your daughter swear at you? Oh, yeah. Oh, right, okay. They're not. They're not dry. They're not dry. Too dry. They're delicious. Fine, Mum. Absolutely delicious. Well, you wanted the crisp, and we got the crisp. Crispy, juicy, delicious, moist in the middle. Good. Perfect size. I could fit all of that in my mouth, actually, if I wasn't being polite. Okay, well, you'll have a long one, then. So delicious. This is heaven for me. Can I just say you do? Honestly, you have been so amazing.

14:45and you've talked about us for so many years about this podcast. This has been a long time in the making. Slightly obsessed. But Lenny, it was great to meet you on Mamma Mia. It was great to meet you, darling. In Corfu. I was so excited. Corfu, what an amazing place. Oh, we loved it. You got a car out. Fiat 500. Yeah, Fiat 500. Got my Shirley Valentine on. And you had a lovely time, didn't you? I did. I took myself off on little drives. Yeah. Found little beaches. Amazing. Yeah, it was quite a good... It was sort of like healing. It had healing qualities, that island. I agree. I think it was...

15:25I really adored it, and I think we just had such a hoot, and I think... I'm sure the producers won't mind us saying, we didn't necessarily know what we were going into. Me, I have no idea. And we were all at the airport, and we were a bit, like, looking like we're going on our holly bobs, but knowing we have to do a bit of work. But it didn't feel that hard work, did it? No, it didn't. And Alan turned out with his hat on and he'd had some wine that he'd had a reaction to on the plane. Three bottles. He was the colour of his shirt. It was so... He was so funny. Isn't he the best? You are friends for the life, aren't you, Lenny?

15:58I could see you guys chatting. I just love him. He's just a naturally hilarious, adorable man. He is. And he's so naughty. He is. And was a hilarious neighbour. I felt bad, actually, because I was like, he probably doesn't want to be my neighbour. Do you want to love us? Can I, Danny? Yeah. Help yourself to end this in. They are good. How do you make a spanakopita? I can't even remember what I put in, but spinach. There's some feta, onion, spinach, dill, mint, parsley, spring onion. It's frozen spinach, though, isn't it? Yeah. Which works better. See, frozen veg is actually such a good thing at the moment.

16:42But money tapings doesn't go off. I know that people are going to judge me. I've got diced onions in there. Jessie, that takes so little time. But it helps. But it does help. And also, someone like me... Yeah, what's your eating? Oh, gosh. Well, thank you so much, Jenny. I'm going in for a salad. Is this kind of like a lunch for you now? I love food. Always have done. I just can't prepare it. Okay. That's the only thing. I don't know where I was when everyone else was learning to cook. You were on the telly. I was mucking about and also I grew up in the 70s which as we know was a time of you know panda pops and I remember my dad burning potato croquettes in the 70s that lovely smell of burnt potato croquettes gorgeous and it was the time of cheese and pineapple on sticks in upside down you know and fondues that was a thing there were fondue sets everyone got one for a wedding present so it wasn't I guess the most exciting culinary time.

17:43Lacto's, like, heavy. Growing up in Heston. Is that where you grew up? I grew up in Heston, yeah. Isn't the... Service station. Service station. That was the place people used to take you out to the service station. Oh, really? You're lucky. Oh, God. I know. Stay out in cars. Let's take it back to the 70s. You're around the dinner table. Who's around the dinner table? Who's cooking? What are you eating? Well, my step-mum would cook. And she was pretty brilliant. die pretty tasty sometimes around the dinner table it would be my nan my granddad my uncle paul my two little brothers who i grew up with i've got another brother and he grew up with my mum um because i sort of separate modern modern family and so yeah so there'd be a lot of people i always one of my favorite things is my gran my great gran who was born when queen victoria was on the throne and she had a she had a shop and they had a horse and cart and her and her fella would go to the pub after closing they would get drunk and then they would fall asleep on the cart of the horse and cart and in the morning the course would just take them i mean it's like stepton the horse would take them back to their shop in the morning and they'd wake up and go back in i mean it's another time who needs like you know uh robot cars when you know a horse and cart that can get you to the right place.

19:02It just takes you home. That's brilliant. It's such a great story. What was in their shop? I think they had like food supplies. I've absolutely no idea to be honest. It's terrible, isn't it? But my grand, she was my great grand, she would sit next to me and she would do that thing of she would always pass the food she couldn't eat to me and I would finish it. And at school, I loved school dinners and it was the age of spam fritters. Oh, Jesus. I know. Just got proper deep fried. And everyone used to pass their spam fritters down the table because no one ate them. They were disgusting. Except me.

19:32And I was, I got the title Pig of the Year. And I ate 19 in one sitting once. I mean, it's disgusting, really, isn't it? Skinny as a rake. Yeah. So I would eat everyone else's food. Yeah. Oh my God, that's brilliant. It's the only thing I ever won. Pig of the Year. Things haven't really changed. So, so your, did your dad ever cook? So it was your step-mom cooking. God, no. What was a memorable dish of hers? she would do oh god desserts it's always the desserts I remember pavlovas like really good cake crumbles she did do main courses but it's always been about the dessert have you got a sweet tooth massive sweet tooth yeah really love a dessert but yeah I didn't really learn I was saying to Lenny that I had housemates who would cook for me because I just couldn't I can barely boil an egg eat anything except razor clams and that was after Norm back in the day one day went I'm going to make you razor clams Norm was not a cook then he is cook by name, not necessarily by nature now he's brilliant and he kind of met Jamie Oliver via my show when I was on Radio 1 breakfast and I remember having Woody and coming home and all the parents were coming to me my boy and Norm was like, what am I going to make and he called up Jamie Oliver and he went do the fish pie and so it was the first time Norm really cooked anything Lenny have you spent every time it wouldn't be the podcast if she didn't get a bit down her chest save it for later that's a good bit so he made a fish pie and then it became the sort of food that we always cooked and he was really good at it and I think that was the first time he cooked but he one day decided to make me razor clams romantically the facts that they go up and down out of the sand it looks like a good night sorry no tell me more they sort of go you know you can stand on them they really hurt your feet are they the long ones they're the long ones I'm sure they're delicious they've cooked right but I was looking at him thinking this is not going to go well for me and I said Norm do you mind if I don't eat the raised clams if I eat the rest of it and he looked so crestfallen and I ate them I was so ill so it's the only thing so are you allergic to them or did Norman do a really bad job at them no I'm just not sure they cooked right apart from that he's very good because you live by the sea and so I guess and there's a fish shop right next to where Norm lives yeah so it's handy you get your fresh fish every day maybe it wasn't that fresh or maybe Norm just needs to stick to the fish pie maybe the fish pie yeah because when we said anything you eat and it was just anything apart from razor clams I was like don't worry you're not getting razor clams I wouldn't have to come in the morning to be honest they're burrowed down into the sand well I guess that's quite similar to lots of shellfish though right shellfish should live on the bottom of the sea a lot of them I have no idea, darling, about the life of a mussel.

22:28Mum, being a Jew, we're not supposed to eat shellfish, are we? Because they call them scavengers of the sea. Yeah, and they don't have scales. We're not supposed to eat anything about scales. Why not? Because they're scavengers. The rest of them are scavengers. It's a bit harsh, isn't it? Well, they're not eating like plants. They're eating anything, aren't they? Right. I still think they're delicious. They are. We bought my daughter tropical fish. For her birthday, she said, I want fish. We went to Pets for Homes. We said, can we get some goldfish? And they said, actually, freshwater fish are much harder to look after than tropical fish.

23:05I said, say no more. I want tropical fish. I've never had that. Easy way. Right, go and get that tank. And it's got this regulating. They put the water thing in the day before. You do the thing. You do it. You get it acclimatized. Don't come until Thursday because the fish are coming from Korea or something and they need a day to acclimatise. We're like, we're in. There's some sea snails. My daughter loves snails. We're like, amazing. Anyway, they go on Friday. Within an hour, all the fish were dead. All the way from Korea. And then they fled it all the way here and they came to New Cross Gate and then they fucking did it.

23:39They were like, I'm not living here. No, I don't know what happened. We did everything by the book. Sam said maybe I wasn't gentle enough putting them into the water. They didn't want to live in New Cross. No, exactly. I'm like, take us back to Korea. Snobs. It's lovely. Well, they didn't know that New Cross is a totally different place. They won't get to know now, but it's very sad. I lived here with John Thompson. You remember Cold Feet? Yeah. We lived on Florence Road around here back in the day. Did you? I came around, I was like, God, it's got lovely around here. God, I bet you and John Thompson had a lot of fun.

24:09We did have some very silly times. And was James Nesbitt ever involved in that? I did get to meet James Nesbitt, yes. How did you end up living with John Thompson? So John ended up living with me in Manchester. I went up to Manchester when I was about 18, 19 to work in telly. Went to poly in London. Messed up my exams. Hopeless. Left convent school, got into boys. The rest, you know. Yeah. You know, Lenny. You know how it is. Also convent school girls. I mean, so repressed. And then you go mad. It's, yeah. So anyway, so I went to some poly in London and was like, this isn't for me. so I thought I'd better start working so I started working as a runner went up to Manchester, worked on all sorts of kids shows and during my time up there I sort of became friends with Coogan, we used to go and watch Steve, we used to go and watch John and Steve and Jeff Green and that lot, they used to rehearse and the wonderful Caroline Hurley used to rehearse their stuff in this little pub on a Sunday night and you'd just go watch them and I mean Caroline I think one of the most naturally gifted funny women that I've ever seen in my life.

25:22You know, she was phenomenal. And she'd just get in and sometimes she hadn't even prepared anything. And she'd just start talking about her mum or a shopping list or something and you'd just tears down your face. So John ended up moving in. And yeah, they were funny, funny times. So you just surrounded yourself by funny people and just laughed your way through your early 20s. They make you funnier. I'm not a funny person. and if you hang out with funny people, you have a funny time. No shit. Did any of them cook for you? John, my distinct memory of John is him making strawberry daiquiris in a very small kitchen and not putting the lid on.

26:00Oh. And imploding strawberry daiquiri all over the kitchen. I don't remember a lot of food. Oh, I do remember that I'd run out of cash and was prizing some IKEA meatballs off the back of the freezer because that's all there was in the house to eat with a tin of baked beans and someone had won some champagne. So we had these really dried out frozen meatballs. Yeah, so again, not great cooking. So was Live and Kicking your first telly gig? I did all sorts of other things. I did a lot of kids' TV. I used to read the birthday cards in the morning on Children's BBC. The broom cupboard. Yeah, I got to do the broom cupboard with Chris.

26:41It was the anorak. How do you remember that? Because I used to watch the broom cupboard. What was that on, darling? Was that Gordon and Gopher? Gordon and Gopher. I was after Gordon. I think I was after Ed the Duck. Ed the Duck, yeah. All these great people who went before me. So it was such a great place to learn, though. Paul Smith, who ran it, was an absolute superstar. And he took a bit of a chance on you, because you'd turn up and you'd never done anything before. I'd worked behind the scenes. And the great days were, the BBC would, you know, take you on and train you up and teach you about live telly.

27:15And it was so fun. And I loved it. And a lot of those people who came through there, you know, they're all still going strong, actually, a lot of the people who came from kids TV. Did your dad ever say, don't do this. What are you doing? Go and get a proper job. Well, or did he say, go on? Yeah, go for it. Yeah, really. He did say go for it. What did your dad do? Was he in entertainment? Yeah. So he was in entertainment. And he did? He did. Do you remember Play Away? play school those you know play school he did play school and then he went on and he was really interested in maths and science and stuff like that and he's he went on and did that and he he was in the RAF and did accounting in the RAF and had a super crazy brain so maths and science and stuff so he kind of went on to teach that but I watched him I mean I was I found it quite mortifying watching him on telly because it was so embarrassing because it's like oh god my dad's doing that but actually years later i'm so proud of him he's he's he's amazing he's 85 still going strong he's an absolute wild wild one he's so much fun does does um what about woody and nell do they cringe or are they really proud i mean she came on set when she'd done her hair and i wanted to give her a big cuddle and she seemed like she was really into the she loved that she fell in love with all the guys on mamma mia fabulous you know wanting to be sky and a couple of the dances she loves bit of drama um all her cousins do as well there's a there's a sort of street that runs through quite a few of them they're all into acting and you know we don't know where that comes from do you think that's what she's going to do i don't know i don't think she knows yet then she's 13 i mean when did your girls know what they wanted to do she's leggy isn't she snooze taller than me i i thought i wanted to be a family lawyer so wow yeah did you do law i was about to and then i was backing singer for my mate and then the rest is history your mate being Jack Pinotter Jack Pinotter yeah I know I love that I know love that story does Nell cringe when she sees you on does she listen to you in the morning she likes Greg James let's just put it that way it's fine she'll tune in a bit and then she'll be and whenever you mention Greg James she goes I love Greg stab in the heart do you know what she is very supportive she often is like who's on nah not interested but she she's great you look a fabulous girl day in the life of Zoe eat you're not you're not coming with like your pre-prepped salad or boiled eggs no so what is you having as soon as those shops are open what is the orders are you well i've been training with jtpt introduced by scott mills who's jtp jonathan he is in the gym around the corner i'd sort of be like oh sluggish menopause putting a bit of weight and scott who is basically mine and joe wiley's fixer he's like you need a tan cool scott mills need your nails done cool i love that he's so brilliant uh needs your eyebrows threaded cool scott mills so he's set me up with jt who has changed my life he's brilliant i mean i know i'm not you know is this the first time you've done personal training before i've done it before i do something for a while but jtpt is the one he's so good and it was all about he knew loads about menopause and it's all about strength training and he was like you need to fuel yourself i tried intermittent fasting it doesn't work for me i have like sugar slumps i'm like yeah and then i reach for all the bad stuff so but the thing he's kind of taught me protein in the morning so i have a protein yogurt sometimes i have a protein bar they're a bit disgusting food's better a couple of eggs i don't know yeah and then train yeah only three days a week it's often one because i'm oh i'm really busy i've got other things to do right but I managed to lose a stone and eat food.

30:53And he's always like, we can eat today. And he said, are you a chef or a preparer of food? I'm like, I wouldn't even call it a preparer of food. I open the packet, empty it in a bowl. So he'll do things like get some feta, chop it up, put in some prawns, have it with some rice, add a bit of beetroot, do-do-do-do-do. And I'm like, this is really tasty. I think it's keeping it simple for someone like me. so I try to eat three meals so what's your first thing you eat? you don't have a bacon sandwich every morning no but we do have days it's so tempting isn't it sometimes a Greg's is all you need I love a bit of pastry so I try to be healthy some days but the rest of the time and also I could eat it's my favourite pastime let's talk about Mamma Mia a bit it's on telly now what kind of are your food memories from Mamma Mia when we were there for a month my first meal we went out we went missing we were sent for a meal we got to the set and they weren't quite ready for us were they it was our first day we were like shooting in an empty fence it was pissing down it was raining none of us really knew what we were doing and they sent us for lunch the drivers all got lost and we couldn't find the restaurant which was about two minutes from and then we drove halfway around the island went to a hotel ended up somewhere and we're like no we're going to stay and we're going to eat and jesse it was it was amazing because i was sat next to judy kramer who has the best stories about share oh my god and meryl and colin firth and everyone and benny and bjorn and then you ordered for us all i was like this is what it means to go away not holiday we kept calling it the holiday i'm working with jesse because jesse orders for everyone so you know that she is for everyone this way don't share with Jessie no but you were sharing and I think she did share and also she always it's not her strong point at the table she always would be like you haven't got any of this here you need this and she'd explain each dish selfless mum it was the greatest thing selfless darling and that was my favourite thing oh I love that it's like Jessie's in charge she'll just order for us all and we I ate so well I thought you said I ate so much because I was ordering just like and you need some more of this that was absolutely brilliant and it was it broke the ice a bit it was really funny getting lost and us all being like in the talent cars everyone was separate it was like we were like in the rolling stones or something we were completely lost in corfu and then we just found a taverna and it was perfect stay there for hours yeah right we did eventually do some work and i haven't realized corfu had such an italian influence because they do that sofrita for food and that's an italian thing sofrita yeah someone was telling me that kofu town was built by italians yeah okay um i would happily come go back to kofu i thought it was beautiful me too loved all the little coves and the island and every everywhere you went to eat they couldn't bring enough for you it always bring extra dessert yes little drinks yes and Exactly.

33:58And all stopped for a chat. Absolutely beautiful. And some fun boat trips. And watching Alan have a couple of glasses of rosé with Maz Murray was very fun. Oh, see, I missed that. Yes, Maz Murray. Maz Murray plays Donna. Donna on the stage. So she will be the mum of whoever gets the role of Sophie. And she's phenomenal. She's like West End royalty. So did she come to Corfu? Yeah, she did a masterclass. Oh, wow. And she was incredibly kind and fabulous. And hilarious and very glamorous.

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35:45Right, let's go on to your last supper. Oh, my last supper. I've thought about this a lot. I love you. Okay, you've got starter, main, pud, drink of choice. Okay, so last supper. Starter. None of these go together and you might be like, what? But it's my last supper. Yeah, yeah. Okay, ceviche. I love it. It's one of my favourite things. And I can make that because it's fish, lime juice. See, I've never tried to make that one Zoe. So that's amazing. But it's effectively, it's really easy, isn't it? You'll have to be fish cooked. Because it's such a Mexican thing. And I think I had it in Mexico when I went travelling there.

36:17Good fish though you have to go. You have to have really good fish. I've got a fishmonger near you. Right next to me. So, handy. What fish would you use in your ceviche? I'm thinking, I'm looking at Lenny. Cod? No. Cod? Seabass. I don't know. I can't remember what I use. I think people do seabass ceviche. It's generally whitefish, isn't it? It's whitefish. Whitefish. So, are you doing your, are you cooking your own, this is very... I don't cook, darling. You're cooking your own last supper? I could cook my own last supper. Unless, you know, I'm sort of slightly trapped somewhere. I don't know.

36:47It depends if I've had a comedy death or not. You don't have to cook it though. You don't have to cook it. But I love that you've gone straight in. The person that never cooks is about to do a ceviche for her last second. I'm going to do a ceviche. It's actually quite, I think it's difficult to go wrong with ceviche. Okay. Look at Lenny. Fine. And if the fish is raw it doesn't matter because I'm going anyway. So I can take myself down my own cooking. What's your drink? My drink would be a margarita. It goes hand in hand. Yeah. So you've got that kind of. Okay. I'm slightly ruining it by going completely in a different direction to the main.

37:16Which would be steak. with greens like lovely cabbage and fried tomatoes it's what is my favorite it's my when i'm a bit weary that is my go-to i can make it i can i've worked out out of like a bit of butter on the steak i love cabbage i think it's the best vegetable in the whole universe any particular cabbage or i like a sweetheart cabbage and it's quite sweet and i like lots of pepper yes loads of pepper on it yeah and right delicious this is still blowing my mind's over you literally said that you can't cook but you were cooking your last and also someone taught me if you cut the cabbage up and you put it in a pan with a bit of water and butter in it and so it steams itself in the butter i try doing that and then it's quite yeah but you have to only do a little bit these are literally the only three things i could do you didn't have to cook your last supper?

38:11She's such a bit sad cooking her last supper. That's it, it's the end. That is sad, darling. I could be alone. Well, this could be you come into the world alone, you leave alone. Are you having a glass of something with that? No, I'll probably just have another margarita. It'll only take a couple. Tequila's really a big thing now. I've noticed it. Even the bus shelters have got tequila. Is that because of it? What people are drinking it. What people are drinking it. Are you getting the bus? Are you getting the bus? Seriously, are you getting the bus? Keeping it real, like Andrew Ridgely. I thought you were saying, does he take the bus?

38:40Yeah, he got the bus here. Wasn't he amazing? He was really bad. I loved that show. I loved him. Those stories, man. Yeah. What a life. He's such a gentleman. But you were a Wham fan, weren't you? I was a Wham fan. I was a Wham fan. And I once, I was a very uncool kid. I used to wear tracksuits. Never met him. But I used, this is such a weird story. I used to wear a lot of tracksuits, velour. I don't know why. It was, you know, it took me a while to find myself, Lenny. No, there was that make. Juicy Couture. Juicy Couture. This was before that. And I had gone out the front of my house to pick grass for the guinea pig.

39:16Weird. With a miniature wheelbarrow. Okay. Because the guinea pig had eaten the grass and the patch. Okay. Yeah. And who should come down one pin lane opposite me? George Michael in a convertible sports car. I was probably about 14. And I just stood there with my little green wheelbarrow in a tracksuit like, I love you. And then he drove off down the road. And that's the only time I ever saw George Michael picking grass for my guinea pig. Did he stop and look at you picking glass for a guinea pig? No, I think he probably called social services. This looks like a dodgy situation. But I know. What an amazing man.

39:50So what's your pud? Sweet tooth ball? Sweet tooth. Can I have a trolley? Yes. Can I have a dessert trolley? Yes. Are you making this one too, Zoe? I possibly won't make the desserts because I can't. I'm terrible. I'd want a sticky toffee pudding, please. A cheesecake, baked cheesecake. oh I love a New York cheesecake oh I love a New York cheesecake I made one once and I could not believe how much sugar and cream you pour it in no wonder it tastes so good but my biscuity base was very soggy where would you go out for a steak because you're always in so yeah because you kind of want if you're going to go out for a steak you want them to not it's nothing more disappointing than you I'm going to treat myself again on a steak and then it's really thin and it's overcooked and you're like, oh God, I could have done one at home.

40:40Steak, what's that one? Iron, flat iron? Flat iron. Good. I actually have never been there. Oh no, what's the other one? The other one. What's more? I like the one in the Sanderson Hotel. Which one's that? What's it called? Bernie's, Bernie's, Bernie's. Bernie's, Bernie's. It's the edition. Oh, the edition. Right. Chateau Briand. Oh, they have fabulous steak. Really? I might try that. It's around the corner from work. Yeah, you should definitely go there. I love it. And they serve it. They serve it. That was the place. They used to hang out. And the rooms were all wonky. Actually, I will get a little bit of pud out now.

41:14Yeah. It's not really pud out. I think it should open the cannolis. I'm going to open the cannolis. I know, don't worry. But I basically, we got... And this, I don't know if it's going to work. So there's no pressure. At a taverna that I was at in the summer, at the end of the meal, they just kind of shoved it on your table and it was just Greek yogurt with carrot jam. So I tried to make it. Okay. So we'll see. How do you make carrot jam? With lots of sugar. Great. Okay, carrot and sugar. Zoe, is it hard to, when you have to get up so early, is it hard to look after your children? I mean, and...

41:55Well, Woody's off living his life now. Yeah. But we have super nanny, Adele, because Norm, their dad tours quite a lot. Yeah. and I can't do a school run in the morning. Yeah. And to be honest with you, I'm more like a child in the evening than Nell is. Yeah. So sometimes she'll put me to bed. But Del basically is amazing. I've got a really brilliant team. Who supervises homework? Well, now she's at a point where she's cleverer than all of us. Is she at boarding school? No, no, no. She's down the road. But, I mean, her sort of, both Woody and her, their homework stand, I mean, they passed me at, you know, eight or nine.

42:33I wasn't able to help with. I can help if it sort of involves a show tune or, you know, but anything mathematical, sciences, I'm hopeful. Is she grammatical? You know? Doesn't matter, darling. They're so clever. But she just gets on with it. She's pretty cool. Yeah. She's pretty cool with it. And I think it's that thing that she's been used to, both of us working. And you just kind of make the rest of the time. I mean, to be honest with you, she's getting to a point where she wants to hang out with her mates a lot. But I love it. that she, you know, there was a massive spider in her bedroom the other day, which we couldn't find.

43:08And she ended up sleeping in my bed and she's taller than me. And you know when the kids sleep next to you and they just look like angels and she, I almost got a photo of her. And she woke up and screamed, don't take that photo, mother. But I just remember being in the hospital with her when she was born the first night and you're left on your own with them and everyone goes. And you're just, and there was that little perfect little face. and she refused to boob feed right from the beginning and I knew then, I was like, oh my God, you are going to be so sassy you are stubborn, you've literally just popped out, but she is such a beauty and she's really smart and we kind of joke, Norma and I we're like, God, our kids are really clever despite us what does Woody do?

43:53Woody DJs, like his dad so listen, just try it this is how they did it in Greece and you just have a little bit like that So you just take a bit of carrot jam, which is such a beautiful, it's like a really dark looking marmalade. I think that's nice. Is it like the one you tasted? Yeah, I think it may be even better. Oh my god. It's quite nice, right? That is so sweet. I know. That is divine. It's nice, right? Mmm. See, this is a great thing when you travel, you get these ideas, don't you, of all these fabulous... Make this with rose water as well. Yeah, you could add a bit of that. Oh no, that reminds me when I tried to make chicken that was rose flavoured.

44:32And it was basically rose chicken. It was disgusting. That sounds pretty disgusting. That's what my usual cooking experience is like. So Zoe, I know, I just need to know about some food experiences you had in the 90s. Oh wow. Or like even the early 90s, like with Norm, like you must have travelled the world together. Yeah, our first, I mean we're great mates and it's nice that we can kind of, yeah. It's amazing. Um, he, um, we, our first date, we had crab, like a crab, like cooked in some slippy sauce. Was that in Ibiza? No, that was over here somewhere. And I've always said to people, do not eat crab on your first date.

45:13It's ridiculous. Bits flying off all over the place. Like a pretty woman, slippery sucker. I mean, Norm didn't eat a lot, to be honest with you. His food was a white Russian, to be honest with you. So, but we did, you know, if, when you're touring or you're musicians and you know what It's like you get taken to the greatest places in the world and the finest restaurants. And that was so wild. And sometimes I think, God, did we actually really appreciate how... He now does a thing where, she'll tell you himself, where he will tour and choose places because of the restaurants that you can go to and stuff.

45:46But... Man after my own heart. I think there was mainly drinking in the 90s. Not huge amounts of eating. But I guess all the places we used to go were No Boo And it opened Yeah And then you'd go downstairs To what was that club called Everyone used to be in That bar Not Bungalowate No it wasn't Bungalowate The Met Bar The Met Bar And everyone used to be in that place Who would you see there I remember sitting in a booth one night And I was sat next to Matt Dillon Robbie Williams Lawrence Fishburne Oh my god And Johnny Lee Miller And you were just like How am I Like who was What was the DJ spinning Janet Jackson I imagine And you'd all be sitting there going, how am I in this group of people?

46:28It was very silly and lots and lots of fun. I remember going for lunch with Jamie Theakston to a hotel in Holland Park. Was it Blake's? One of those really posh hotels. And Liam was in there. And he'd had a row with, I think, Patsy at the time. And he'd come to sort of, you know, drown his sorrows. And, you know, I mean, that was peak 90s. You know, he's running into Liam. things like that. Now you'd see Noel at Chilton. Yeah I know and you would or you'd see them out for a nice meal because everyone's grown up and I kind of love seeing all those guys years later that A everyone's still going everyone's still got the spirit you can tell all these great stories because I think there's there's a little bit of a time after all the craziness and the chaos of the 90s where you sort of forget some of it and you put it slightly aside but now years later when you've grown-ups at last mainly um and your kids are sort of taking the baton you know Woody's sort of living the wildlife now and he often says tell me the stories and you forget and I often find myself off air on the radio show where I'll play something and go oh it reminds me of when we were pole dancing with Cheryl Crow and ODB and uh Sophia Coppola in in you know you forget these things happen and actually they were really fun silly daft adventures but I what I love and respect about you Zoe is that you have been in everyone's kind of life on whether it's television or like children's television me being in the audience at live and kicking um so yeah like radio one radio two strictly it takes like you've done all these things you are a household name and you're loved yet I always feel like your private life was always quite private and I think that it must have been quite hard to balance that but I kind of yeah I think it's quite a weird thing because you know there were times when it wasn't so private and there were times when it was really quite difficult it not being private and um you know and now it's so lovely that no one really is that you know and also the other thing is you say everything on the air you know I mean never tell me any secrets because I will just all my friends are like oh you've told that story about me on the air oh god sorry yes um but yeah so it's not so bad and also the younger generation of more interest to people now and that's actually quite nice um because there were times when it was it was quite difficult but you know what i think if you you work in that industry you could sort of slightly accept it i think it's great also now that people can own their own stories a little better you know and i really love it when especially women because you know it can be so But, you know, it always annoys when you see in the paper, she's flaunting this or she's blatantly doing this, that and the other.

49:11And you're like, no, this is a woman who is out. And the language used is often very different. And now a lot of, you know, young musicians, they work so hard. I think it's something I really notice now. There were wild days in the 90s. Not everyone survived it, you know. But nowadays it's so professional. Everybody works so hard because they have to, because things are so different. but also you can slightly own your own story I know you know when they write something about Miley Cyrus she can then put out something on her own socials and say actually no that's not about that this is about this and I love that and with Taylor and you know it's even with May Muller in the Eurovision when she had like it could have been such a oh I think it was really tough for her the experience she kind of turned it around and you turn it around and then you own it and I think also you just have to protect yourself slightly with socials and stuff.

50:04I mean, I've got a Twitter account, but we tend to use it for work. I don't really read it. No, I don't like it. You know, because you only have to read one comment that just can send you down such a... Because people feel sometimes that they want to tell you terrible things. And also, you know, I annoy myself. So of course I'm going to annoy some people. Yeah, do you think that's been like a coping mechanism? You've worked out how to kind of be able to do it. You just go, don't read it, go around here. and then sometimes you can see something and then you think all right okay here I go you know um but you have to remember that you know what everyone has van you got to believe in yourself but also the most important thing and you find it too is your family and your friends and your and I love that my mates are like just take the mickey out of me and my kids now as well they just bring you back down to earth and that's kind of what life is about isn't it it's your friends and your family and I'm really lucky to do a job and still be doing it 30 years later.

51:01It could be cancelled at any moment. It's a risk every morning that you are only one sentence from cancelling yourself. Zoe, can you give me a nostalgic taste? Sad, happy, that can transport you back somewhere. Christmas pud. Christmas pud. Is it a happy taste? Happy. It's kind of my favourite because if you get to Christmas pud, the stress of a family Christmas is mainly over by that point and you can all relax. Not that you've been in the kitchen. Not that I'm in the kitchen. I made Christmas dinner once and I've never seen a family so quiet. Everyone was just like, it was like the John Major thing in Spitting Image, pass the peas.

51:37It was so tasteless. I've never been allowed to do it again. That's all right. My brothers do it. It's fine. But when you get to Christmas puds and you can relax and, you know, I love the taste of that. It reminds me of my grandparents of all this. You know, and now you look and my dad's a bit older and those times are so treasured when the family are all chilled. It is moments before the bull's pickled eggs come out. Bull's pickled eggs? Yeah, so my granddad Fred used to make pickled eggs for Christmas. Huge, big jars of them. Pickled eggs. And everyone would have them. And then later on in the day, you get this odour of pickled egg.

52:14It is pretty grim. Why did that start? I don't know why it started. They're a bit like stink bombs. But then my Uncle Paul would make them. And now my brother Nick makes them. but what happens is the family leave and I have jars giving things I don't think the chip shop want them that's what they do you get a pickled egg with your chip shop and a savoy that's not what I thought was going to come out of your Christmas memory a pickled egg it's a big thing maybe could it work well on boxing day it's your Christmas lunch or dinner it's sort of afternoon yeah I think we've plumped for that in the end Later.

52:53Later. Because you've got the chaos of everyone opening presents and the kids and we eat later and later these days. So you can't eat that dinner at seven or eight o 'clock at night. You won't ever go to bed. I know. And my favourite bit is the later bit when you get the hams and the cheeses and out. Now Zoe, just tell me, should I be moving to Sussex? Sussex is fabulous. For the good life? The good life, it's lush down there. It's very green. I mean, it's a very different life to London and it's a different life to Brighton. I sort of moved inland because I wanted a, you know, veg plot and some fruit trees and a bit of space.

53:30You talked just about a veg plot. Oh, yes. What's in the Zoe Ball veg plot? Do you know what? Last year was really good. Loads of good stuff. Last year, sweet corn, cabbages, squash. This year, terrible because we went to Greece. So I just never got any of it in. Play my TV. I had two cabbages left. they've been kind of eaten i had one horseradish medallias are a disaster but i've just put in some spinach um in the hope some spinach cabbage and some radishes and some sprouts i was really excited i was like get the sprouts in they take 30 weeks they're not going to be ready for christmas so if anyone's going to want any sprouts around april may they might be though they'll be ready because of the weather well the weather's played havoc uh yeah so i don't know but it's so hit and miss it's kind of a bit of a full-time job do you grow stuff no but i love this because i cook you could be my supplier i could be your supplier if you need some sprouts next year my push my push amount jesse's got lots of apples do you need any apples no i've got apple trees i've got plums i should have bought them for you what would you i've got a lot of plums what would i make with plums oh there's a great recipe in the new york times called plum torte oh which is just basically a batter and you put 12 plums in the heart in half can get rid of the batter I just like stew plums I love it and I like roasting plums and having it with a mascarpone Jessie stews them with a bit of masala wine with the lapsang sauchon tea so you stew them with a few tea bags of lapsang so it makes them smoky it's really nice how do you know to do that?

55:05that was a Cardo magazine I like it just get a little idea and then do it I think if you're very keen on food you find recipes all the time so if we eat something we'll try and work out what's in it and then make make it that's how we do it so much fun so much fun i mean yeah i might do a course i i decided that i would do a course either in upholstery swing dance or cooking and why was swing dance because that was your local local area no i was terrible at that but i was like oh let's do a course give me something to focus on on the darker nights and um maybe i should try the cooking yeah do it basics yeah you know i want to learn how to make bread oh gosh yeah i would really love to do yeah let's do that learn to bake bread and babka i don't need to learn to bake babka otherwise i'll be no we'll be like twice as as big as we are yeah and zoe ball thank you so much for coming on table manners we absolutely love you um and and thanks for always supporting us and it's taken a while but hopefully we hey we can do round round two and the next destination that we uh go to yeah where we go to next yeah if it goes well, fingers crossed.

56:15Thank you, good luck with the early mornings and I'll see you at the live final. See you at the live final.

56:34Oh, Zoe Ball, just the gift that keeps on giving. She's so lovely, isn't she? Every time, I just love her a bit more. She's just like a ray of sunshine. she is heaven i love her love that she's got no idea how to cook anything but brought the goods enjoyed my carrot jam she's absolutely gorgeous i'm so glad she made time to come oh i feel exhausted just thinking about her day though getting up so early i think it must be really interesting that you kind of have to be so on 6 30 she's on and she has to be like energy for everyone else so it must be you almost need to probably need to go and do yoga and meditate for and said she came here and ate delicious spanakopita mum.

57:13Good darling. Very good. Good. Very good. Like could be a really good little canapé that you do. Do a little fennel yoghurt dip with it. Darling, that was made with love and effort. Yeah. I appreciated every crispy mouthful. Okay. I think it's better than the big pie, don't you? Yeah, I do too. Also the John Gregory Smith baked feta and tomato dip. Very delicious. You must try it at home and very easy. you can add a little bit of chilli in there too. And his peach salad. The peach salad, which I actually didn't add chilli in, which it did need, which would have been gorgeous. It was really lovely.

57:49I thought that was, I was doubting peach in it. A peach salad. Yeah, and it was great, yeah. It's been a good day. Fresh. For gastronomic layman, hasn't it? Yeah, gastronomic success. That cannoli from Bailey and Sage was unbelievable. Delicious. I think I only had half, so I think I need to finish off yeah um thank you so much to zoe ball for coming over um and you can see us both on your screens at the weekend uh and you can listen to zoe every morning um every weekday morning um and we'll see you next week bye

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