Are Man United Premier League ready?

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1:17Laurie,

1:32anything? No. I didn't know whether you were messaging then oh no no I was just looking at Mason Mount stats oh right fine I should do we should keep that in

2:04This is Talk The Devils, the athletic show dedicated to Manchester United. Coming up today, we ask the question, how ready are United for the new Premier League season? There's less than three weeks left. We'll learn a little bit more from the trip over to Sweden to take on Atletico Madrid. We'll have the details on that. We'll also ask the question, what's left to be done, including in the transfer market? And of course, some breaking news this morning that Mark Skinner has left the women's team. and we'll have the latest from Megan Feringer on that. But we've got Laurie, Kyle and Andy all here.

2:36How are we doing, gents? Okay? Very good. Doing nice. All good. Brand new month. Brand new week. Isn't this fun? Isn't it fun, yeah. Andy, you're looking remarkably fresh for a man who got back quite late from Sweden. You've mentioned it a couple of times in the warm-up to this, so I feel like we should mention it. I got back from Stockholm at three o 'clock in the morning. It was sunny, so maybe I've got a bit of colour, but I am a bit tired. Manchester United beat Atletico Madrid for the first time in history. So the trophy parade is tomorrow. First time in six attempts we've beaten Atletico.

3:10I've seen all six of them games. So I'm really relieved. That's as good as winning the treble for me. Andy's definitely ready for the podcast. But obviously the question is, are Manchester United ready for the new season? I mean, Laurie, not yet, clearly, because there's still, what, two or three weeks left to go. But is it shaping up a bit more now, do you think? I mean, they've had three pre-season games, so I suppose yes. I suppose there's a pattern, there's a repetition amongst the team, which I think is a good thing going into a new season, albeit clearly there's lots of players still to return from World Cup duty, so how much will they impact?

3:47And it's a different thing, isn't it, going from friendlies into competitive action. But certainly I think some of the relationships on the pitch look quite promising. him. I think Mason Mount's starting role in that deeper midfield position is interesting and we could perhaps touch on that a little bit more as we go on in this podcast but I think he's had a really good pre-season. Obviously it's all about staying fit for him and then interestingly with the attacking line-up, he's changed it a little bit hasn't he, Michael Carrick but I think Shea Lacey's prominence in this pre-season is notable.

4:19I really like the look of him, I think his close control is immaculate really and obviously that's what won United the penalty and so if he's to have a bit of an emergence into the team this season I think that's that'd be a great thing but it's kind of fitting them all in right because you had I think really three what you'd call right wingers in the starting lineup against Atletico and then obviously Dorg on the left-hand side so all three of those guys are kind of you know cutting in on their left foot how will they actually then come together in a Premier League campaign? Will we see that again?

4:52I don't know. But I think you've seen encouraging signs and perhaps maybe Lenny Yarrow is another one to mention just at right back, continuing in that position. Is that a longer-term thing for Michael Carrick? I think these are kind of interesting questions, building nicely, but still you feel like there needs to be more for the squad across the season where it's perhaps going to be up to 60 games with Champions League, with Premier League. if United are really going to make a run at this, it still doesn't feel quite ready in that regard. Are we seeing more clues to the style though, Carl? There seems to have been a development on that.

5:25Yeah, we've seen a lot more of the tiny little triangles in midfield and perhaps not this huge need for a hustling and bustling Casemiro-type tackling figure. I think Andre Santos has been really, really good helping the team play in a proactive manner. The way he screens the defence is really, really good and how he allows Mount to be freed up gets the best out of him too. So it's looking a little bit more like Middlesbrough under Michael Carrick. And I mean that as a compliment in their best period when he got them into the playoffs. Thank you for clarifying. Yeah, yeah. So you've got one fullback getting fooled quite a lot.

6:03The other fullback drops to create a back three. Out of possession, I'm seeing more of a 4-2-4 shape two or three times. and a lot of that does rely on Mountain Santos being very, very intelligent and being very, very good at figuring out where the opposition wants to play their passes and cutting those out. So promising signs, stuff that I'm really interested to see, how is this all going to change or interact when Bruno Fernandes returns? How is this all going to change and interact when Benjamin Sesko is playing up top as well? But this is a United team that I feel, at this point in time, confident in finishing in the top five.

6:36I don't think it's going to be a scratch and claw battle providing everyone stays fit. And this is me knocking on wood, providing everyone stays fit. Even now, Carl, even without any more signings? That's a big shout. I think if without any more signings, United will probably finish closer to fifth than to third. But I think player health is going to be a real, real big thing. A season where Luke Shaw stays fit and plays 30 Premier League matches is where United can finish within the top five. Far more easily than if Luke Shaw does his hamstring in November and we're once again going, oh my goodness, where's this?

7:12I mean, even just now, Laurie, when you point out how many right-wingers we have, it's quite funny how quickly Michael Carrick stockpiled left-footed players at Manchester United where he considered there was a point on the 10-hard where he just seemingly had none for a little bit. I'm like an optimistic anchor. This is a good way to start the show, definitely. I mean, Andy, the thing that maybe gives Karl that confidence, it certainly gives me more confidence, is the fact that it just seems really quiet and calm with United in this pre-season. And when you look across the rest of the league, it's almost the opposite.

7:43There's been so many changes of managers. Eddie Howe, obviously the latest one to leave this week when he departed Newcastle. And it now means that there's only eight managers who were in the Premier League last season who have had longer spells at their current club. I mean, there'll be nine managers, at least. You never know what might happen in the next fortnight, who will be taking charge of their first competitive fixture in the Premier League on the opening weekend. That's unprecedented. That's an amazing stat. I think you use the word calm, that mirrors Michael Carrick. He's not someone who's prone to bombastic statements, settling grievances, using the media.

8:21You hear almost nothing from him. There's been no post-match press conferences on the pre-season tour. I had a little chat with him in Trondheim last week and some of the coaches. Is that deliberate, the lack of communication from him, the lack of press conferences? I don't know I think he will definitely speak pre-season and I think he will do that in Dublin where Manchester United are going to stay for a week just outside of Dublin and they'll play that game at Croke Park against Leeds United so I'm told that Michael Carrick will speak there and then there's nothing to stop you talking and a player that I spoke to several on Saturday off the record and you're just saying like who's who's training well who's doing well just to build up your picture of what's actually happening inside the football club that that you're covering and a couple of them said to me mason mount like really complimentary about him i think you can see the way that he's playing he's doing well but i know as people listening to this they'll be going yeah but and the but is his injuries and we could have said the same thing about luke shore a year ago and then he had a really good season Michael Carrick's view I think is slowly but surely we've got a really big lead in to the start of the season which starts later than normal players will continue to return it's been quite nice because you can let younger players have proper chances and we'll talk about them within this podcast as well and you know players like Shea Lacey starting games it's hard to see in the Premier League where some of these younger players are going to start.

10:03Some of them are obviously going to go out on loan as well. So I think Michael Carrick, this is him. This is what he's like. He's not going to give you those strong media lines where he's raging against the machine. And there's enough going on in football anyway with FIFA, et cetera, that's giving you all those sort of back pages. I think he's satisfied. I think from a transfer perspective, the club know that additions are still needed, that the squad is still unbalanced. I said last week about a left back. So that's where we're at. Big test at the weekend in Gothenburg against PSG. That one has sold out.

10:42So there's another modest crowd in Stockholm. I'd apply the same reasons as last week. Holiday season, United were there only a year ago. It wasn't very good a year ago. Ticket prices are not low. But of the people there, it was fantastic. i'm just meeting loads of united fans from all around the world obviously most from from sweden loads of them listen to this podcast and just to get real life interaction is so refreshing against what you see online which is often angry and anonymous and you know one guy come up to me and because uh andy i'm bob off the internet my real name's george i'm like whoa whoa whoa you got two names here mate yeah because i've got like my alter ego where i can be angry online and then this is me in real life.

11:27Nice to meet you. So lots of good people, decent win. First half was it looked like a pre-season friendly, but we can pick out positives like the lads have started to do. Just coming back to the point before, Carl, if we can, you said you think this could be at least a fifth-place finish for Manchester United this season. Is it the fact that there's so many changes elsewhere that big rivals like City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle have all got new managers in place? A little bit. I think there's internal worries for me from A United. So Luke Shaw's health, who replaces Benjamin Seshko if Seshko needs a rest?

12:07Is there going to be a third midfielder? But then there's also things when I'm looking across the league, I'm going, you know, the external threats. Are Chelsea one game a week on the Xavi Alonso going to be a real danger, especially now they've got super Danny Wolbeck? Are Newcastle in the middle of a transitional period now that Eddie Howe's departed and they seem to be buying younger this summer window as well. Aston Villa will continue to be functional because I think Umayyama is a very, very good coach. Is he going to be able to balance Champions League duties as well as league duties and kick on there?

12:40I'm not going to predict where Tottenham are until Christmas because Tottenham are Tottenham and Allurenton themselves. But I think there should be a strong front two in Arsenal and Manchester City and then there's going to be a chase in pack and I think there's good reason to believe Michael Carrick and his coaching staff have united at the front of that chasing pack at this current point in time. I think the squad and the way they're building out the squad seems to be... They're trying to build a squad where they're trying to get two players for every single position and they're going to try and make the gap between player one and player two not that large.

13:13So you imagine the box-to-box role is going to be Tielemans and Mainu and they can mix and match. whereas your number six position will be Santos and another football player. I'm still hoping United go out and get another defensive midfielder. But yeah, the signs are encouraging for now and they should get even more encouraging once Bruno Fernandes and everyone else gets back. Just before we move on to transfers, Adam sent a question in Andy. You're probably best placed to answer this considering what you've said in the past. But he said when Carrick was confirmed as head coach, there was a discussion around the additional coaches that he'd bring to the club.

13:47I think it was a set-piece coach that we mentioned at the end of last season. Has there been any progress on this, do you think? Not that I've heard of. I'll ask and I'll try and get some information in time for next week. But I certainly mentioned it on this podcast and I think Laurie mentioned a couple of names as well. That was the intention, but I don't have any update on that. Right, let's talk about transfers then. We have got an update on that, I'm sure. Laurie, in your opinion, what do United still need in the remainder of the window? Yeah, I am similar to Carl in thinking that they would ideally have a midfielder that can cover ground with ease, can break up play, has that power, has that engine.

14:29Because I think that seems to be, for me, what's lacking in the current selection. The more I've been asking questions around this, the more it's come to the fore that they're still debating what the next target will be in terms of position. and there's no guarantee that there will be a third midfielder, perhaps with a view on how Mason Mount has been doing in pre-season. Obviously, that's a big if. Given his injury record at United, it would perhaps be asking quite a lot to have him really play a lot of games next season. Although, obviously, last season was a lot better for him in that sense.

15:04But I think he played eight games in a row last season, was his sort of longest streak and obviously had a bit of an injury setback and then they were quite careful about when he came back. But then he did come back at the end of the season and played really well in those last two or three games. But that is sort of, I think, part of the conversation at the moment. Where do United want to put their resources? And left-back, I think, is still an area of prominence in that regard. Lewis Hall has obviously been spoken about, is liked by people at the club. but Newcastle's position with the change of manager how does that affect things?

15:41I think already they were wanting a significant transfer fee for him was the impression I don't think any price had necessarily been set but you're sort of talking towards£60 million is what I was getting the impression on and so would United actually really commit to something like that? Personally I would like that just because I think he's a player that's very young has shown already that he's got great technical ability plus that physicality that you need and you could have that transition from Luke Shaw into him in a smooth way. I think he came through at Chelsea as a midfielder as well, so maybe in certain moments that could develop as well.

16:17But I just wonder if the cost... It feels like United are taking a really strong approach on the prices and clearly they've walked away from Mateus Fernandes for that reason. They never really got properly involved in the Elliot Anderson pursuit because of the clear indication that it would cost a record fee, basically. And in the end, they've signed Santos and Tielemans for sort of£85 million combined. And that impression of their dealings was really well thought of, wasn't it, by fans in that moment? Because I think they were quite excited about the fact that they've gone and got players, perhaps against the grain, against expectations for what appear to be good value.

16:54And I suppose now, though, the question is, will that be enough for United, really? Do they need to spend more to compete with these other teams that are spending more? I know you're saying about this flux at different clubs, with Chelsea, with City, with Liverpool, but they've all got what you'd think of as good coaches in there now. So you can think, are they going to get even more out of the players already at their disposal? But I do think that Carl's right to touch on Malcolm Carrick's Middlesbrough, just because when I was speaking to somebody last week, they were saying this idea that United need a strong runner doesn't necessarily translate if you have possession of the ball.

17:32so if you've got technical players as we saw with Spain at the World Cup and I think this is what Michael Carrick likes the look of keeping the ball keeping possession do you really have to have somebody that is purely really there for physicality so yeah it's a long answer to your question there and maybe actually before I finish I should touch on Harry Amas I don't know because Andy said you've only got Luke Shaw we'll come back to him we've already got about three things we'll come back to that I'll leave it there you can trust me Laurie I'll ask you about these things separately don't worry

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20:53so potentially Mason Mount's performances and and the thought of Carrick to use him deeper means there may not be a mystical third midfield signing possibly yeah I mean so again I'm hesitant to sort of commit massively because the I think plans have changed as we've gone on but uh I think that Carrick really likes Mason Mount and so does that then you know if you have these two midfielders at the base, so you've got Santos, you've got Mason Mount, you've got Tielemans, you've got Kobi Meynou, that's four for two positions potentially, if you count Bruno as a number 10 that's going to pretty much hold on to that, but then you've perhaps got others that could step in, Tielemans could be a number 10 for example and rotate or Konya could be, obviously we saw Shea Lacey there, so perhaps they're looking at that thinking, we've got a certain amount of money to spend, where do we absolutely need it to be?

21:45and yeah I think that I don't know how at what point it sort of felt that maybe Mount could be that guy but it certainly at the moment is a strong consideration and so yeah I think that might be of interest to people and I mean my only thought on this is you know we've had this before with United where the perhaps sort of put certain messages out not you know not directly to journalists obviously they're talking amongst the industry here but there's a negotiation to be had So if you tell people that you're comfortable with your options as it is, you hopefully have a better leverage position if you do then enter the market and looking at options.

22:23So that's my only thought on it. But I think it's genuine that you've got a player in there that is clearly very technical, is doing well in pre-season. Does that then impact where United go for their next target? That would be a big shift, Andy, wouldn't it? Yeah, but this is why pre-seasons are played. I think the point about two players for every position is right. I think there's several factors. United have struggled to sell players to bring money in. So if you go back to the start of the transfer window, you would have said Manu Ugarte was for sale. All my sources, I don't know what the lads would have said.

22:57You've got Josh Zergzi, who's got interest in Italy, but as we speak, he's still a Manchester United player. I mean, he played at the weekend. So you've got to bring money in. you've got Vitech the goalkeeper who could potentially bring some money in adding to that a very inflated transfer window you can argue for and against whether United should have broke the bank to go for any of the players they've missed out on the club's position is pretty clear that in the past one of the reasons Manchester United got into trouble was by overplaying and panic buying and buying these diamonds of players that didn't necessarily fit a long-term system and I do have faith that Michael Carrick is planning for that but it is still an unbalanced squad and I think United do have options on players will not be bullied into it and they have been bullied into it in the past you know there's only not everything gets out about how much some players or some agents have had in pretty recent years as well huge amounts which would um affront a lot of Manchester United fans so there's more discipline there and they get this clamour sign players and And when they don't work out, sign more players and then sign more players.

24:09There's still a month left almost of the transfer window. Manchester United remains attractive. But United are not this apex hunter they once were. They cannot blow other clubs out the market, partly because they've not played European football, partly because it was a loss-making club, and partly because other clubs are much stronger financially as well. So they've got to be smart. And I think United have been smart. I think the last five signings have been smart. and I'm liking what I'm seeing with Telemans from the way we signed, not seen him play for United yet. Andre Santos as well. But you've got to deliver in the Premier League.

24:46Michael Carrick's done that. He's been a very lucky manager. His win rate's fantastic. But if you're going 10 games in and Manchester United are wobbling, then the mood can change pretty quickly. And it is a huge season with the European games as well. There's a lot of really, really good players there. Matthias Cunha is a top player. Benjamin Sesko. I'm hopeful that all of these players will be even better this year and that the players who faded towards the end of last season like Amad or Brown and Bumo, Michael Carrick might have to work with Marcus Rashford. We discussed that in depth in the last podcast.

25:20He was a success at Barcelona. You've seen what his teammates have said about him. He won the league. He was an absolute success there. What version are we going to get back at Old Trafford if Marcus Rashford is being reintegrated? Yeah, there's still a lot of questions actually the the more you debate around this. But, Carl, fundamentally, how would you feel if left-back was ultimately the next priority? The last big thing, actually, that Manchester United end up doing in this window. Key word is big thing. So if Laurie's saying Lewis Hall for£60 million, yeah, yeah, I think that's a reasonable price for a full-back who could succeed Luke Shaw and be at the club for the next five, seven years.

26:01A£60 million signing at left-back and a£40 million signing, at central midfield, fine. I don't think Mason Mount's pre-season form should be enough to stop making a central midfield signing. I think Mount is a good player and could have a very important role to have as a squad player, in that he can back up Bruno Fernandes as a 10, he can offer something as the 8 when Tielemans or Manu aren't there. But in terms of a 6, that person who screens the defence, Santos needs help, Santos needs backup, because this could in theory be the most minutes Santos plays in Europe. And Laurie, I do understand your point about Spain, but I do also say Spain have rodery.

26:44Right? You can play that possession football where you're doing loads of passing triangles and it's amazing, but you do, at least to my mind, and that could maybe be the way I view football or you can call me the southerner and all those derogatories, I do like someone there whose main job is making tackles and hurting other people. And it feels like United haven't quite got that person. Maybe Gartic has a clean bill of health and we can say he can offer something towards the end of the season. But I just feel, okay, if you can't get two of many, there are players out there that you can get. I'm a bit miffed that Brettonford got Mamadou Sangare because he was a football player that looked like he could do a role and he's gone for 41 million.

27:25I think that's the sort of benchmark that United can still get. But yeah, look, left back. I'm going to be doing shuffle for Carrick sometime this week and I'll be looking at left backs and I'll be in a tactics truck and I'll get some Lewis Hall stuff for you in the meantime. £60 million though. I'm sorry, that's cheaper than I thought Newcastle might quote. Not quite as cheap as£6 million for Harry Amas though, Laurie, and that caused a bit of a stir in your deal sheet for the Athletic last week. I mean, there is a conversation to have about him as well because, again, there's been a lot of questions we've had about whether he can play a role in backing up Luke Shaw and whether a left-back is an absolute necessity or not.

28:04Yeah, so I mean, I hadn't perhaps anticipated the reaction to the Harry Amos fee from what I've been told. It's not guaranteed that he would be sold. It might be that United actually end up deciding, okay, a loan is preferential and hopefully has a great time wherever he goes and then the value increases if they do want to sell him or they actually get an idea that maybe he could be a left-back for United. It's just felt that for the last year or so, I know he played under Ruben Amaroom in the Premier League but it felt that United were of a mind that he wasn't of the level that they wanted for a long-term left-back so can we get some money for him if that's our decision?

28:46They had this same thing years ago with James Garner who's obviously then gone and had a really good career with Everton and people are wondering was that the right thing to sell him but I do think you have to take these decisions at the time that they happen rather than in hindsight years later when you don't know that he would have had that many games when he was at United for example. So yeah I mean it feels maybe low to people particularly when you've got other fees for other players that we perhaps haven't heard of but I suppose he had a really good loan at Sheffield Wednesday didn't he? Then went to Norwich, got injured so he's not got that perhaps wealth of experience at senior level to prove that people are willing to commit to it And basically, you're looking really at the championship and how many championship clubs can afford to go higher than that.

29:32You know, it's unlikely. So, yeah, I mean, listen, let's see what happens. But that's kind of where the conversation is at with him. And then, yeah, in terms of Lewis Hall and that price tag, you know, I don't know exactly what Newcastle would want. That's kind of, you know, a bit of a working assumption from, you know, perhaps people that would have a better idea than me. And I do wonder how much this change of manager affects him because, you know, he hadn't really... It felt like Eddie Howe perhaps didn't fully have faith in him at the end of last season. And so whether that change affects things, I'd be intrigued to see.

30:03But there's obviously been reports of Myles Lewis-Skelly as well, who clearly is a player that United have looked at. And he's a very good player, isn't he? But he kind of came into the team at the end of the season with Arsenal. In midfield. It felt like he was quite an important player, started the Champions League final. So, yeah, again, you feel like that one's a difficult one to pull off. So, yeah, I realise I'm kind of just saying, you know, I'm casting doubt on a lot of these situations. It's raining on my parade. Come on. Yeah, it's just an interesting one, isn't it? That it feels like United now have gone, right, that's our business done.

30:37Obviously, there's a lot of, you mentioned about the being calm for the last couple of weeks. There wasn't really calm, was there, at the start of the World Cup, for example, when it felt like United were in a bit of a sticky position with Fernandes, with Edison falling through. So they then were quick to act to sort of arrest that and get Santos and Tielemans in. And people, I think, felt that that was good work in the transfer market. And it's felt like now United are assessing things and seeing how, for example, Marcus Rashford comes back and what the landscape of that is and who might come in for other clubs in terms of raising funds and where they can then direct it.

31:09So, yeah, I would still anticipate business, though, towards the end of this window. Yeah, valuations, Andy, they are a consideration for United because, you know, you're looking across the market now. This is on sales, really. So Raddick Vitek obviously impressed on loan in the championship last season at Bristol City. Well, according to Tom Burrows on The Athletic, Coventry have agreed to pay£22.5 million for Brighton's Kyle Rushworth, who impressed on loan at Coventry in the championship last season, never played a game in the Premier League. James Trafford, who ended up a backup goalkeeper for City last season, 40 million quid, supposedly the price for him to go to Leeds.

31:51And then you're looking at Tyler Frederiksen, who's joined Lausanne. Ethan Wheatley, there's been reports of him going to Everton. So, you know, United need to ensure that they are getting the proper value for these players to be able to supplement the work that still needs to be done on the first team. United need to be better at selling players as well. but you can only sell what you've got and what people are prepared to pay for them and i saw a figure of 15 million for vitech a couple of weeks ago and i'm thinking okay that seems reasonable he's a championship done really well at bristol city can go higher and then i spoke to someone who's an expert in in that area and he just said in your dreams you're getting 15 million for him you get more if he was english which i didn't know look at the average cost that championship goalkeepers have gone for over the last five years.

32:38But then I think his level is higher. So maybe that means a move abroad. I think his position is a strong one. United will get money for him. I don't know what. Harry Amass, six million. As Laurie says, someone at the club has got to make a decision. Are you good enough to play for Manchester United? Yes or no? That is their job to make that decision and then see what the club can get for him. If you've got six million for him, that'd be a huge sale for someone who's not come close to the first team. And the inability to sell players, for the reasons we've discussed, means that finances are tight.

33:12Money's tight. It's not what people want to hear, but money is tight. And with Laurie, I still think there'll be some movement in this transfer window. I can remember a year ago, going, that's it, that's it, that's it. Bang, Benjamin Sesko came out and was signed. But just look, look, look, Read Chris Witherspoon in The Athletic if you want to look in detail about Manchester United's finances. Things are improving. Champions League will help. Sponsorship deals will help. But took a massive hit from losing money over a number of years and then not getting into European competition. United need to get back into Champions League every single season and rebuild because they're massive.

33:55I spoke to Atletico's David Hanko after the game. He played more minutes last week against United last season than any other Atletico player. And he's like Man United are massive. They're miles bigger than us. You can see their press officers are going, wait a minute, and he's like one of the biggest clubs in the world. In this transfer window, Manchester United are not acting like one of the biggest clubs in the world because the money is not there for the many reasons that we've explained. But I think United have been smart in the transfer window in the last couple of years. And I hope that continues.

34:29Yeah, clearly United are trying to make the best of the situation, or the current regime are trying to make the best of the situation, Laurie. I mean, Fredrickson is an interesting deal when I talk about the hierarchy because he is the first player transferred between Ineos-owned clubs, isn't he? Yes, but I don't necessarily see this as being a similar situation to Chelsea and Blueco and Strasbourg. It's gone for 50 million, did you say? Sorry. Yeah, exactly. I think the main point of this is that there's a big sell-on fee. So it kind of works for everyone, I think, in that, you know, Lausanne have got a player that's, I think, good quality.

35:07He goes to a place where he's going to play regularly at Hope and then United, ultimately, if he does well, you know, you imagine he moves on, right? and then you can go and perhaps then everyone makes money in that situation. So yeah, it's not a bank-busting move, but it is, as you say, it's worth noting because it's the first one between Ineos control clubs. So yeah, you imagine that made things smoother, but necessarily perhaps also made things a bit trickier because they're kind of trying to make sure that everyone's satisfied. But I think it is one of those moves, you know, it's a rare occasion when you get this kind of thing that all parties are happy with it.

35:45usually you get one that's a bit disgruntled because they've lost a good player or vice versa. Perhaps the player feels like a bit pushed out. But this one, I think, feels the best for him as a player, the best for United and the best for Lausanne. But yeah, it does, in terms of United cutting their cloth, it does then, perhaps, I don't know if you want to get onto it now, but there's another area of the pitch in terms of the attacking part of the pitch, striker, where that still feels like something they need to do, particularly Sesko still not appearing in pre-season just yet and Nandy's right to touch on Xerxe who I do think has interest you know Juventus for example perhaps being one of them a couple of Premier League clubs have been in touch but nothing feels advanced there so you're sort of coming into this window thinking he's going to go and then United are going to buy somebody in his place but as it stands that isn't the case and then you know you have as Karl's touched on there Danny Welbeck going to Chelsea.

36:38We can't talk about it Laurie can we? Can we talk It's too painful, that. Just very briefly, just to say, they weren't ever going to revisit it. Just because you had a lot of people going, come on, right, this is the starting light for United. Finally, the wake-up call, if you're going to bring him back, third summer in a row, because they tried, or they had a look, certainly, in 2024, and then to a larger degree in 2025. Interesting that Chelsea had given him a two-year contract at 35. That was one of the issues, I suppose, around him potentially coming to United last summer. But then you look at somebody like Oli Watkins, who has been talked about a lot with United.

37:16Clearly he was the last two, shall we say, for United going for a striker and then United went for Cesco instead. I don't think United are going to go for Oli Watkins in this window either, though. So it feels like the money that Aston Villa would want would feel palatable to United, perhaps. Also, two years left on his contract, but I don't get the impression that he's one that United are going to pursue as things stand. So, yeah, who would it be? Are they definitely going to sign one in that position? You know, if Dirksey doesn't go, it still seems to be, sort of in counter to your first question at the start of this, Ian, this podcast, you know, how settled are United?

37:53How ready are they for the new season? Still feels like a lot of questions to be answered. Yeah, in the transfer market, certainly. And a lot of people, Carl, getting in touch using the same word. Does it feel underwhelming, this transfer window, given the expectations? It's not finished yet. Who knows what might happen? But as we sit here now, How do you feel underwhelmed or do you just have to trust the process? I'm going to have to trust the process. It's the start of August and the transfer window doesn't shut until September. It got quite exciting when the Inbouma deal finally got done. And then the Sesco bolt from the blue turned up as well.

38:26But everything Annie said, everything Laurie said, is United aren't cash rich right now. There's the revolving credit facility and maybe that can happen. but in terms of having cash in the briefcase that you can turn up on Danny Welbeck's door or Newcastle's door and buy a player that perhaps isn't there at this current point in time I still really want a third midfielder I really want a left back you can even go back to the transfer podcast we did in the studio last season where Laurie and I were going back and forth about whether or not we wanted a left back or a left winger and I was leaning more so left back Santa Ford, interesting I think Mbumo, Cunha and perhaps even Rashford can offer something at centre forward.

39:06But I would like two more signings, a number six defensive midfielder and a left back. And then I could start getting really giddy and start talking about the T word, we'll say. The T word. Wow, that's an early mention for that particular reference. He means the title or maybe a trophy, actually. I would be nice, I suppose. right let's just take a quick break from speaking about the men's team to talk about the women's side because there's been breaking news on Monday morning just before we recorded that Mark Skinner has left Manchester United by mutual consent and Megan Faringa has sent us this report on the departure of the Manchester United head coach.

39:46On Monday morning we reported that Mark Skinner and Manchester United had agreed to mutually terminate his contract as Manchester United women's head coach. This comes after just a really difficult summer and a really difficult year for Manchester United women. So Skinner was heading into the final year of his contract. He's been at the club for five years. He's led them through some ups, some downs. They made it to the quarter finals of the Champions League last season, which was exciting, but they failed to make Champions League for the upcoming season. And there was quite a lot of uncertainty around the investment into Manchester United women.

40:17It was a point of contention and a point of criticism that Skinner raised throughout last season was that they needed to invest in order to stay competitive with the people around them in the WSL, including Chelsea, Arsenal, and Manchester City. This summer, United have only made two signings. It was a backup goalkeeper and a defender who came in on a free transfer. They have sold a lot of players, including Melvin Mallard, their forward, two rivals Chelsea for£850 ,000. It's a club record fee, but again, you're losing players and you're not necessarily replacing them and yeah internally there was quite a lot of strife around that point of investment this summer and it sort of culminated into this moment for mark skinner to weave as he was told and the team were told by a board member last monday that the club were going to be running on a sustainable model of investment and that they intended to bring in academy players return to the dna of manchester united there's only intention to bring in two more players this summer so lots of uncertainty at manchester united heading into the new season Apparently the budget is roughly 6th or 7th lowest in the WSL.

41:21It's not the place that Manchester United fans or the women's team really want to be. Yeah, Kyle, just to go through some of the details, thank you, Megan, for bringing us that. She's got the very latest on this situation on the Athletics, so we're going to have a read of her coverage. But it's been in post five years, Skinner, four domestic cup finals in four years, won the first ever trophy, the FA Cup, back in 2024, qualified the team, obviously, for the Champions League, got them into the league phase of that competition as well for the very first time. There's been progress with Skinner. How do you reflect on his time?

41:53Because he's not been universally popular, that's for sure. No, he's not been universally popular. And you're right to bring up the domestic cup final record in that. It's been four, but it's been one victory. And that was over Tom Hotspur. And some of his harshest critics have pointed out the fact that he's done very well to get United to top four, top five level in the WSL. But when it comes to going up against the big three, going up against Man City, going up against Arsenal, and particularly going up against Chelsea, Skinner didn't always look capable of bridging that gap. Now, if you are a fan of Skinner's work, you'd say, well, United at best had the fifth highest or fourth highest wage bill in WSL.

42:35investment in the club was limited and he was very good at getting a lot from relatively little compared to some of his competitive peers and the fact that United did become FA Cup winners, the fact that they did play Champions League football, they reached the Champions League quarterfinal, is to be applauded. I'm somewhere in the middle, in that there was definitely one FA Cup final against Chelsea where I won too many performances against Chelsea, where I believe Skinner had possibly taken the club as far as it could have gone and they needed to be a fresh pair of eyes. Then I think as time went on I started to come along to the agreement that Skinner was doing a very very good job of just making sure United didn't bottom out and have a truly bad season where they were way off it.

43:23So it's all changed right now. It's also another summer where United's level of investment is quite limited. I'm really sad that Melvin Mallard's gone to Chelsea. I think the fees are$850 ,000, which is pretty good, but also not really. You'd want more, and you want more for a player of that quality and a lot more for a player of that dressing room character. And it doesn't necessarily look like that money is being used to bring in an attacking player of similar quality. The United squad has loads of weaknesses. They've addressed one of them already by getting in a good backup goalkeeper as well.

43:58But it's again another WSL season where I think United are going to have to be really, they're going to need a little bit of luck. One of the teams above them having a bit of a mess if they want to finish in the top three again. Because it always feels as if whenever they come close, the Ineos or the Glazer family doesn't necessarily want to invest the money into that club to help them really start pushing City, Chelsea and Arsenal, which is a shame. So whoever comes in next, good luck to them. It looks like it's going to be a really hard job. Yeah, Peter asked us before this news on Mark Skinner, do you have any positive news incoming on the Manchester United women's team?

44:32Which I'm not sure this is exactly what he has in mind. He referenced London City Lionesses who are spending a fortune and obviously changing things for Manchester United in terms of yet another serious challenger, I think, for the top positions in the WSL. We're still a month or so away and we'll do a proper preview to the new season as we get closer to that. But Andy, yeah, it feels a bit flat again with the women's side right now. It does. And I think for women's football as well, the finances are dictating a lot. Carl's pointing there about United's wage bill for the women's side being the fifth highest.

45:09Well, Jim Ratcliffe said very strongly that success in football correlates very clearly with how high the wage bills are. So if you've got the fifth highest wage bill, it's highly unlikely that you're going to be winning the league. I'd be interested in how Megan and the other people who covered Manchester United women see this. I go to a couple of games a season, and I speak to fans there who, like, go invest more, invest more, but it is loss-making. So are you investing for a brighter future because the women's game deserves to grow and should grow? or are you putting money into a loss-making project and you're seeing other clubs, Barcelona is the best women's team in the world in the last 5, 10, 15 years.

46:01They've cut back drastically on what they've been spending for the women's game. I enjoy it when I go. I enjoy speaking to the fans from there. And I think if it's for the men's team and you're losing star players like that, there would be a lot of unrest, but the economics are very different. it's super tricky because there have been seasons with my united's women's team where they haven't been loss making they've in fact turned a profit yeah but the question is should you be having a women's team that is turning a profit in a boom period where there is more opportunity than ever to create that sort of mass fandom in your local area in your national area so that when when these girls come of age, I'm specifically talking about young women now, they want to play for Manchester United growing up instead of going, I want to play for Chelsea because Chelsea won everything.

46:51If you look at the men's team, I support Manchester United because Eric Cantona was really, really cool and he helped Manchester United win things in the 90s. There is that opportunity in women's football right now that if you win quite a lot of trophies now, if you are willing to take a loss, this is the good opportunity. this is the boom period and you need to strike when the iron's hot and it really seems that United don't want to do that or have less of an appetite to do that than Chelsea than Arsenal than Man City than now London City Lionesses with Michel Kang who's I mean Mary Erbs Alexis Patella they're going to be a problem for that fourth fifth position now and it seems like United are just content to finish fourth and fifth for as many seasons as possible until I don't know until an academy kid ends up going supernova is it a boom period because the average attendance and i've got to be really careful when i talk about attendances in the wsl because you have teams like arsenal who play the games at the home ground and they can skew them i saw some of the crowds last year i was pretty disappointed how many people turned up for the psg game at home in november and it was a great game of football as well and i support it i watch a lot of women's football my daughter is a young female footballer and i'm watching it three four times a week i'm a big advocate of how great it can be for the the reasons that you mentioned empowering young women and you've got these role models and the lionesses have been fantastic as well but two or three years ago i saw these massive jumps including some players who manchester united lost in the wages that they were on on about three four five time jumps in their salaries and i'm thinking how on earth is sustainable and yet still a fraction of what the men's game top players are earning and then you bring in the side issues is Lee a good place because it's out in the sticks and then you actually speak to fans and they quite like it because it feels like it's at home and it's a good stadium and it's it's it's a good venue well we'll certainly talk about the situation with the women's side again like I say as we head towards a new WSL season and in the meantime keep your eyes on The Athletic for the latest on Manchester United's bid to replace Mark Skinner.

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52:11Let's bring it back to the men's side because there was a game to talk about at the weekend. I got through a lot of information on this podcast already, Andy, but important to reflect what went on in the Atletico game. Obviously, the standout straight away was Brian Mbumo getting two goals, playing as a centre-forward. We've mentioned a little bit all the different options at right wing. Keris Jones, who was over there for the Athletic, wrote about it on the Athletic 2. Yeah, again, signs of the direction of how Michael Carrick wants to take things. Atletico are a really good team to play against pre-season and I saw some criticism why we play in Atletico pre-season I strongly disagree with that They've got technically very good players They had a lot of experience there They had Koke playing I love Koke 800 games for Atletico Madrid He doesn't want to play for anyone else I'm from Madrid, I support Atletico I don't care who's offering what I'm staying here forever Love him, Oblak as well And then they had fringe players So the lad who scored are now Ortiz He's a Catalan lad who's, you know, he's not a first-teamer.

53:12So they were doing it as well. And there's a bit of needle there. So you need this. You're going into PSG and then you're going over to Ireland. You're playing Leeds United. You've got to get as close to replicating real-game situations as possible. And then you look at what's going to happen to the players. Shea Lacey, really encouraging watching him. JJ Gabriel come on. Great to see. He's a child playing for Manchester United. Jack Fletcher set up Brian and Bumo's second goal. afterwards I saw one of the Fletcher twins coming through and I said did you enjoy that and he went I didn't play no no I'm not mistaking you for your brother I know you didn't play I mean just what about the game what was your overall perception of it and yeah it's good afternoon Tyler there's no no injuries as well injuries will play a massive factor in Manchester United season and at the moment it's looking all right Lissandro Martinez is coming back Benjamin Shasko is coming back you've got everyone fit and firing there's a strong squad there but of course there's never a time when everyone's fit and firing as well you'll see now more experienced players playing against PSG um Luis Enrique will absolutely be taking that that seriously then you've got the Leeds game and then AC Milan um managed by Ruben Amerin in Poland a few days after that so my main takeaways are mason mount being the best player andre santos settling in needs to get fitter but impressing um and and the tom eaton i said to tom i said 40 he went yeah cheers for that i went i've heard madrid or barcelona coming in for you what have you got to say about that not too late tom not too late he did well to be fair he's fine he's a top person for having that dressing room.

55:02I shouldn't say too much for a person also heading towards that particular age mark that you mentioned a moment ago. My main takeaway, though, from the pre-season game was the starting XI for the opening match of the Premier League season that our lorries put together. Mason Mount and Andre Santos have impressed him enough to convince him that they will be the starting pairing in midfield. There's other headline things. I mean, obviously, if you're watching on YouTube, We'll have the graphic in vision for you right now. If you're listening, the starting line-up then to take on Hull, Laurie. Senna Lomans in goal.

55:36Lenny Yoro at right-back. Harry Maguire and Aidan Heaven paired at centre-back. Luke Shaw at left-back. We've mentioned the midfield pairing of Mount and Santos. Then a three behind Matthias Cunha up front of Brian Mbumo, Bruno Fernandes and Patrick Dorgue. Before we pick holes in it, would you like to make a case for why you went with this 11th? I just thought that you get, I don't know, I get the sense that Carrick quite likes the idea of building towards something. So those, you know, relationships that are established, you know, if you can start the season with a similar kind of team to what you've been having in preseason.

56:12And it's against Hull, I shouldn't, you know, disparage Hull, but it's not like you're going up against Arsenal on the opening day of the season like last year. is there is there scope just to kind of have these players that have been with you that are at their what you'd imagine are peak fitness because it's the world cup right the world cup's come in and has thrown things off kilter a little bit off schedule um so okay bruno finanza is an exception so he is in the team i think whatever really um but then the other ones do they get a bit more time just to kind of get back into the the shape into the fitness that they need for the Premier League after their break following the World Cup.

56:50And then, yeah, I guess Sesko and Kunja, it's just because I haven't seen Sesko yet and you're kind of a little bit curious about when he's going to be back. Yeah, that's all. I'm told that he'd be okay for the Premier League, it's just to what level of fitness to then start the first game. Could he come off the bench, for example? Whereas Kunja's obviously been at the World Cup, he's having his break now, he's going to be back pretty soon. I feel like maybe there's more substance to that, but it does feel like there's a few... Come on, come at me. Where is the biggest area for criticism of that selection?

57:20Lenny are a right back up against a whole team that are unlikely to get 40 % possession was interesting. Don't you want a little bit more Diogo Dalot up and down, shuttling, missing a couple of shots off target for you? I think I just sort of thought maybe Carrick would just see what it looks like in a Premier League game. Okay. With Dalot still being off and back from the World Cup and everything like that. I could well see Dallos starting for sure. He was obviously very good at the end of last season. But I don't know, Yoro, right back. It's becoming a, I know it's only pre-season, but it's sort of an interesting development, shall we say.

57:57Yeah, I think Lenny Yoro and Mason Mount in their positions are the development from pre-season. Shea Lacey, I guess you're throwing as well about how much he's impressed. But yeah, they were the bits that sort of stood out to me in the line. Ahmad maybe would have something to say about not being in the starting line-up and having Cunha up front and not on Boom up front like we saw in the game at the weekend. Just to spell it out, Bruno Fernandes, Diogo Dallo, Matthias Cunha and Nus Mazraoui are all due back at United for training this week. I believe Senna Lomans and Yuri Tielemans will join the group today for the first time as well after they returned a little bit earlier than expected last week after Belgium's exit from the World Cup.

58:37You've still got Kami Maynou to add in, Marcus Rashford, who we've talked about, Lissendro Martinez as well. So there's a few people who could still be in contention to make a case for Hull. Andy, any issue with Laurie's line-up there? No, I think you're going to go into the start of the season with a lot of options against Hull City. Hull is a rugby team, boys. Hull FC, it's Hull City. Assistant manager Dean Holden, big Manchester United fan, Just go easy, Dino. Don't get them too fired up in that first game of the season. You know, the start to the season, Laurie's right. Arsenal last year, we sort of came back from that.

59:18United played well but lost the game. And then you go into Ipswich Town. It could be a lot worse. I remember David Moyes privately raging because in his first seven games, he was playing against like five of the teams who'd finished in the top six the previous season. So that could help United. and the fixtures are weirdly spaced out as well. You get like an international break after two matches to coincide with your birthday. And then away we go. I think there's a good squad there. I think there's good players there and I think there's a good manager there. And 26 so far has been decent. Can Michael Carrick carry on?

59:54He's been a lucky manager. He's won a lot of games. His win rate is fantastic and I'd be stunned if he can carry on doing that. And I think that the team still needs strengthening. Yeah, so Gothenburg next for PSG at the weekend. Then it's a match against Leeds in Dublin. And then the Poland trip to take an AC Milan. You've got quite a lot planned for this island trip though, Andy, haven't you? It's not just the football that is taking you over there. I'm going back to Gothenburg for the PSG game. And then I'm going to go over to Cork. I'm travelling around Ireland with Andy Cole. There was a book written years ago about travelling around Ireland with a fridge.

1:00:29Well, I'm travelling around Ireland with Andy Cole. We're doing nights in Cork, Dublin, and then we've got the game against Leeds. That's a sellout, that. Croke Park, Stadium Nerd Me, very, very happy. First ever visit to Croke Park. Been offered chances to go inside before. No, no, I'll wait until I see an actual game there. Then I'm on to Nuri and Belfast and Derry. If you want to come along, get a ticket. Be great to see you. Coley's a top, top lad. Got some top stories and I'm looking forward to that. Definitely. We need to talk about JJ Gabriel just to finish Laurie as well, because I think it is noteworthy that he was in the team for Manchester United off the bench, making his first senior appearance, albeit a non-competitive appearance.

1:01:14But 15 years old and 299 days. Absolutely remarkable. There's maybe a threat to the Premier League record. Angel Gomez, 16 years old and 263 days, the youngest ever to play for United in the first team in that competition. Of course, the youngest ever is David Gaskell, who played for United in the 1950s at just 16 years and 19 days old, which is an unbelievable record. But there's a buzz about JJ Gabriel, and this was the first chance that anyone had to see him at a senior level. So to do that at 15 years old is remarkable, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, truly remarkable. A sign of how special a player he is and how highly regarded he is at United.

1:01:57and there's always a consciousness around player development, but I think perhaps particularly with JJ Gabriel's case, because clearly if he doesn't feel perhaps like he's got the opportunity to break into the first team, there'll be clubs that will come and have a look at him, right? We've had this before with reports of different clubs being interested and so far United, I think, have handled him pretty well. I certainly know that this pre-season was one where all concerned And we're hoping that he would get game time, eight minutes to sort of start with. I think feels like, you know, not a bad introduction to things.

1:02:32I think that perhaps would be a hope that he gets a little bit more game time as the games go on. Would he play in the Premier League? It's a big question. It's a big step up. And maybe it would be, if it does happen, a case of him getting that opportunity to have that first moment, to get that taste of it and then just really solidify his future being at Manchester United. But I think there's a buzz because of the technical quality that he's got, right? Like the fact that he was so integral to that FA Youth Cup team last season that made it all the way to the final. And he kind of got in the final a little bit.

1:03:08He got double teamed really, didn't he, by City players. So it was difficult for him to really show what he could do. But he's got such amazing quality on the ball in tight spaces and an ability to get a shot away. Finding himself in those spaces around the box, I think he's going to be, to begin with, where he gets most of his joy. And then as he develops, he's so young. He's obviously been working on his strength and conditioning over in the summer. He's going to grow, right? He's a teenage boy. So that's the one aspect that I think he will develop on. Although, from what I can tell, I think he's holding his own in first-team training in regards to the fitness of things, the running that you need to do.

1:03:47So, yeah, really a significant moment, I think, for him, for the club. And let's see how much more time he gets during this pre-season. Yeah, just to put into context how young he is, basically, if he makes a Premier League appearance at any stage of this season, all the way through to May, he would be the youngest Premier League player for Manchester United. Then it is under threat, I would say. Yeah, I mean, Angel Gomez was very young, obviously, he was the youngest ever Premier League player for United when he made his debut. Jose Mourinho did that the final game of the 2015-16 season something like that I think it was when he came off the bench I think for Wayne Rooney actually from memory I don't know why that's in my head but anyway we'll keep an eye on JJ he has a way of making sure we talk about him with his performances clearly and we'll reflect on the other young players as we go through pre-season as well but that's it for Talk the Devils for today Andy Laurie-Karl thank you so much for your company thank you Megan for sending in the report on that breaking news on Mark Skinner as well and of course thank you for watching and listening along as well we'll be back next Monday we'll reflect on PSG and whatever else might have happened between now and then but thanks again and we'll speak to you soon take care bye bye

1:05:16The Athletic FC.

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