Cause for concern in Man United performance at Everton?

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1:42The Athletic FC.

1:59This is Talk of the Devils, the athletic show dedicated to Manchester United. Coming up today, we react to that disappointing draw in the end. Late on, away to Everton. We'll get into all the details of that game. Benjamin Sesko obviously looked like he'd given United all three points, but it was snatched away in the last seconds. We'll look at some of the defending, some of the issues facing Manchester United at the moment, but we'll also look forward to the Champions League beginning, because Sabah are the opponents on Thursday at Old Trafford as it all starts again. We're here in the studio in Manchester.

2:30Andy and Laurie are here, smiling back at me, sort of. Frustrating end to that game, Andy, wasn't it? Because it wasn't perfect by any stretch during the 90 minutes, but it looked like United had won it until the 95-plus minute. Yeah, it looked like United had won it twice. You used the word disappointing in your introduction, and that is how I feel today. when you're 1-0 up and you're 2-1 up and you can't see that out, then you end up feeling like I feel today. It would have been a really notable result. It was a very different performance to Everton away last year. That was the game, if you remember, when Everton bombarded Santa Lemons' goal.

3:09Probably Lemons' best game for Manchester United. And Sesko did score again with a header. 88th minute, United end goals up. They're all singing for Sesko. and the goal song yeah which i have a split feeling on that if i'm honest i'm make up a new one make up a new one there's millions of songs out there do something better better than that and then that goal flies in after 95 minutes it's a weird game i'm sure we'll talk about it it was very i thought it was low quality low pressure low intensity and then you get these moments of magic. Little things, whether it was Juri Tielemans taking out the entire Everton midfield with one move, the goals, Bumo's goal was really good.

3:55Everton fans were up for it. They'd had a really tough week, but I feel disappointed because in the feud for the prism of the first three games, we've lost one, won one and drawn one. And I feel a little bit underwhelmed by that. It just damages the recovery from that opening game against Hull, doesn't it? Because the Ipswich game begun to take you away from the feelings that you had after those 90 minutes at the MKM Stadium but then to then draw against Everton even though they were literally seconds away from winning the game just ask those questions and Carrick was asked after the game is this a bad start now I mean that wouldn't have been asked if United had won the match yeah I mean I suppose two wins out of three still isn't ideal because you look at the start to the season and think they're all winnable really particularly the way everton's transfer window went ultimately and so you say that every single goal yeah score against united the two goals scored against united were the architects were genius one was a deadline day signing the other one was a summer signing yeah hayden hackney involved as well another sign yeah um so yeah maybe that's the maybe there was method to the madness uh the only one they actually signed permanently on deadline day scores so the drawing the equalizer sorry yeah uh but no josh was erxy to get in the mix there.

5:10That would have been quite a nice little riposte, I suppose, to all that on deadline day. Yeah, I think probably it's the defence, isn't it, as well? It's the two goals in each game where you're thinking, you're going to have to score a lot of goals to win matches in that scenario. And so, yes, it was two incredible strikes that did United in the end, but I suppose there was a fraying of defensive organisation in those moments where it got a little bit stretched and then you're allowing these shots to be had. And, okay, probably, I don't know, one time out of 10, maybe, that Maitland-Niles one goes in.

5:45Probably not even that, to be honest. But then the George one as well was a great strike. Could Lomans have done better? Probably not. It felt like a harsh one to perhaps criticise him for, particularly. But, obviously, the way the unit was working in those moments, it got stretched. So then you've got these openings for these shots to be had. Well, you're sort of thinking, could Lissandro Martinez do a bit better? Could Lucho do a bit better? Could Senna Lamans do a bit better? And obviously all that adds up to the defence could do better. Yeah, a collective thing, right? And that was something that I think Carrick acknowledged after the game.

6:17He obviously pushed back on certain aspects of questions. And again, I think it was quite a showing his steel a little bit. But he's certainly showing more of his personality in post-match press conferences, both in the TV broadcasts and in the press conferences. So that's interesting that he's kind of wanting to put a more positive outlook on United's current situation. He probably feels like this is United, right? The opportunity to perhaps think negatively and the expectations are big, right? And as we've just said there, you sort of think of this as a three-game stretch that they could have won all the matches at really on paper.

6:53So he's, I guess, trying to push back on that idea and make sure that the sense of positivity is still there from the end of last season. but I think he acknowledged the defence needs to be better and that's something that they're going to have to work on, right? And they've changed a few bits, haven't they, from the first game to the second game, personnel, that kind of thing. Substitutions as well, I don't know, it kind of feels, I guess if there's injuries at play there, then that's one thing, or protecting people a little bit, but I guess in certain situations like that, Everton, where you're only winning by one goal, you know, a couple of moments, then that sort of keep the unit together, so there's the understanding there and you know when someone, as you just said there, you know, when to run and when not to run.

7:32So, yeah, a disappointing feeling to it all really in the end because it felt like, I agree with Andy, that the first half in particular, it felt like quite a sort of slow pace to the game, but then you get these sort of moments of brilliance where United are passing through midfield and there was that moment where I think Mbumo's ball out to Rashford and then Rashford's touch and inside. I thought Rashford looked really dangerous actually. Are they, again, another sort of good performance from him? And perhaps we'll get onto his understanding with Luke Shaw a bit more again. But yeah, it didn't feel like there was, again, the immediate urgency to do something in the game, really take it to Everton when it felt like maybe they could have done, given the way that Everton had sort of come into the game off the transfer window.

8:14Just on the defence, I mean, looking across the Premier League, Crystal Palace and Ipswich conceded eight goals, Chelsea and Fulham conceded seven goals. And then you come to Manchester United, so only four teams have conceded more in these opening three matches. But when you look at those teams, Fulham, Ipswich, Crystal Palace and Chelsea, they've all had to play some of the top sides from last season. United haven't. How much of a concern is the defence? Hull City are a top side. So far this season, the top three. It's a worry because you can't be conceding two goals per game, every game. And very different types of goals.

8:49So undone by set pieces at Hull. Ipswich's second was a little bit of a sting because it came about for a very obvious mistake. And then you had those two worldies, which Everton scored. So it is a worry. And I was in that press conference yesterday and Michael Carrick was asked, has it been a poor start to the season? And he pushed back on that and said, no, it's not. And you can argue that either way after three games, but a league table is starting to form. And there'll be anomalies. I don't expect Hull with respect to them to be that. up at the end of the season but you're seeing Arsenal and Manchester City the teams you expect to win games are winning games and Manchester United 11th yeah I'm ask at Christmas what the league position is looking like because by last Christmas it was a sixth sort of season and I was prepared for that to be last season finishing sixth getting in the Europa League and then And Michael Carrick changed that to his credit.

9:51And that Europa League became a Champions League. And the form at the start of this season is patchier, given the opponents. And I see bright spots. I get where Michael Carrick's coming from, even within the whole City game. There were good moments. But we can't be talking like this in November, having drawn 1-1 wherever, if Manchester United. United have got to get in the Champions League this year. and 70 % of the mood among fans is formed by the result so had Everton not got that equaliser yesterday we would be much happier and chirpier today so there is an irrational part to that there's an emotional part to that as well but that's how football matches are judged it's gone from being an away win which would have been very impressive even if at times the performance wasn't overly impressive and i agree with lorry i thought marcus rashford was one of the best players i thought you know he got the ball to him early on to target evans right back he was playing out of position because of their deficiencies i thought luke sure had a good game as well um brian and bumo's goal was fantastic sesco if this is sesco coming back in gradually more minutes more goals because you saw him being now was a genuine outlet as a center forward cross bang head and there are times when I'm watching matches Cunyre in the first half going this is not not quite working but it's disappointing when you're leading twice and you don't have the three points because the way it's framed is now we're going into games against really tough teams we're playing Manchester City last season but then look what happened last year we beat City at Old Trafford yeah it was a very impressive game in some ways still the most impressive all-round performance that United have had under Michael Carrick let's just pick out then some of the details in that I I mean, what did you think about the tactics then?

11:42Laurie mentioned it before. It was sort of slow-ish first half, trying to find moments. They found the moments. But again, did it feel like they controlled it? I mean, certainly as the game went on, everyone was questioning, look at the game management, look at the game management. But there's definitely moments where you think they could just hold the ball a bit more, not retreat so deep and just see it out and be a bit more confident about it almost. I thought United had done enough to get a win. and United had the most dangerous attacking moments. Everton did have moments as well. But the real moments of quality, you know, Bruno hitting the crossbar, were coming mainly from Manchester United.

12:20If you're asking about control, what is control? Is it possession? Because I think at Hull, Manchester United had 72%. Does that mean anything? I've been speaking to a couple of coaches this weekend and they're like, the Premier League is changing. He said, teams are happier to sit back with that low block and let their opponents have possession because it doesn't actually mean that much and hit them on the counter-attack. And I'm talking to some pretty high-level coaches here who know miles more than I do about this and say, it's changing. Watch the games. Did you see Everton, Chelsea? Did you see Chelsea-Arsenal yesterday?

12:54Well, I didn't because I was on the M62 driving back. Completely different game to the one at Everton because they've gone man for man. So it seems that teams are either going man for man or they're playing that low block. I asked Michael Carrick about the low block at the start of the summer. How did you get past it? United have got quality attackers. They did get past it twice. But Manchester United are coming up against this. If you're pinging the ball around outside their area, if that's not effective, then what good is it? But I actually thought some of the balls across to Marcus Rashford were very damaging.

13:30There were some really good moments. And yet at the same time, it was passive and low quality. this david moyes you were talking to because i believe my sources tell me you had a little chat after the everton press conference i wasn't talking to david moyes about tactics what were you talking to him about then preston so after the game i get on with him i've said that on this pod and not every journalist does but i do we've got we've got that special relationship okay it's like the uk and the us yeah sometimes okay so he beat you at the moment or I had the press conference finished, and he goes, gives me the wink, come here, and I go through, just me and him.

14:06And he's asking about my family and stuff like that. And then he says, you were at Bamba Bridge yesterday. David Moyes did? Yeah. He lives there, doesn't he? He lives in Preston. How does he know you were there, though? Because he buzzes off me, follows me every move. Do you remember when he did that bike ride, Lanzo and Jono Groats? He was following it, sending me messages, saying, like, you're giving me good ideas to lose weight here. You look terrible. Thanks, David. there's a humor in him which people don't always see okay well because he doesn't always show it that's why i say to him you should you're actually pretty witty you're a terrible dancer but oh you've seen him dance well when when west ham warning with dancing in there i thought that was brilliant yeah i thought it was brilliant yeah the sujet you're at bamba bridge weren't you yeah i was watching the fa cup watching trafford win there and then i was speaking to him about the game and he felt that Manchester United may have got a third, but also that he wanted to win that game and felt it was a fair result.

15:05I think he was proud. He kept reminding me, we won at Old Trafford last year. We're not idiots. We're not a pushover. And he'd had a really difficult week. He lost five. Five players were sold. So you see the turbulence around Man United's transfer window. Then you look at other clubs and Everton was probably the most turbulent. And he put on a brave face in front of the media, but I think there's massive issues there. But to his credit, if you want anyone to rally your troops, he's brilliant at it. Oh yeah. Because he's just us against the world. Yeah. And you saw that defiance in the crowd when the game started.

15:37All these really moaning Everton fans when the game started, oh, we're up against Man United and they just roused themselves. Well, they thought they needed a Manchester United or a Liverpool in town to get them up. They look like a lot of emotion actually in the Everton crowd. Because I was watching it on TV but they showed quite a lot of the crowd. Which TV? Where were you watching it? In Alicante Airport. Right. How was your trip to Benidorm? Magic until seek. Yeah, yeah. The screen was clear, was it? I'm happy to let you guys lead this podcast, you know. Sure. I'm feeling a little bit worse aware, but it's good to know.

16:09Go on then, which museums did you visit in Benidorm? Yeah, yeah. There's museums in Benidorm, is there? Right. Benidorm Old Town is lovely. That's what the Benidorm defenders say. It is lovely. It's got a reputation. the old town it should be unesco well it's not we were it is pretty yeah was it your first time yeah yeah it was class to be honest tiki beach tiki beach yeah it's cash only there though so uh yeah it's a bit tricky to i haven't been for i don't know probably about 15 years maybe right yeah it was good for we got called stupid idiots because we tried to pay a card at the bar and she was like the signs everywhere stupid stupid idiots everyone should visit once in their life it's a culturally enriching experience should we get back to united maybe i think all that'll get cut out anyway um i i'm i don't know where to take this i don't know whether to start picking out positives to try and lift us all or to actually have a bit more of a considered conversation about it because how does this defensive record improve do you think um well there's there's options isn't there for carrot it's just that this is the first choice defense so yeah i would say so yeah yeah um i mean you lick maybe but he's been out a long time well that's it you don't really know what kind of way he's going to come back to be honest like it sounds quite deep that to sort of put that out there but it's been a while and back injuries can be very troublesome obviously he tried to go through it without having surgery and then ended up having to go for it and that's why he's still not back yet um but he was he was really good actually at start of last season there wasn't he played every minute of the premier league and so probably united's best player to that point yeah yeah so it's a real shame that that happened and i think he was kind of showing himself there um but i suppose in even at his best he's probably not that kind of defender where you would be able to sort of squeeze up the play you know i think he gets a decent speed up once he's kind of motoring but it's not that acceleration that you perhaps need if you're going to try and play a high line so and that's you know perhaps similar to harry mcguire martinez it's a it's a so it's an interesting combination because you've got like so harry mcguire was bought by oligone solskjaar martinez bought by eric ten haag dallo bought by jose marino luke shaw bought by van haal so you've got four different managers there and then obviously senna lamans bought by ruben amarin sort of so um you've got a five person defense there of different managers what is this style that you're going to try and play with so i suppose That's why Carrick is, you know, perhaps, I don't know, he probably wants a different style, I would say, of defence ultimately.

18:45But, you know, they've gone for the attack, first of all, because they did really need to. The goals weren't enough and that has improved, hasn't it? I think you can see the different combinations, even though I would still probably say a striker just to sort of support Sesko, really. Because I thought Kuni was OK, but I just, he drops into this space, doesn't he? And at times I was pulling Evan's defense out, but you just need a focal point there.

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20:49The problem they've got is because it's Ahmad who's injured, you're having to pull the right-sided player in. Normally, you would pull the right-sided player in Mbumo into the middle. and Ahmad continues there. But because it's Ahmad who's gone and Bumo has to play on the right and then you're left with Kunja or maybe Rashford. There's always Zerksy too, I suppose. But it doesn't quite feel as effective. I mean, Bumo's been picked ahead of Sesko many times. So clearly, Carrick does see him being able to play that role as a centre-forward well. I mean, I asked Carrick in the press conference about Patrick Dogu because I was wondering why he'd not been used as a left-back by Carrick at any point, even in pre-season.

21:25And he said, well, he can play left-back. but he also mentioned that he could play right wing. So if you played him on the right wing, could you then move and boom up to the middle and rejig it that way maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's different configurations and then I suppose that all then does lead, does it, to the defence in some way? Like, because then I suppose you're getting a different profile of defender. You said, obviously, but Leni Jorreau is sort of a great hope. You know, they spent a good amount of money on him. Really pleased. That was their sort of big sign, wasn't it? The first summer where they were really pleased to get him ahead of Real Madrid.

21:55Would you expect him to be in the team by now though well that's it two years on he's still very young but there was a reason why they spent that money on him i suppose it's just a sign of maguire's enduring quality and the trustworthiness that he has even you know and leadership yeah leadership so 30 seconds into the game sort of looks like he's i thought he'd broken his nose to be honest the way he was sort of going down and then he but there's no way he's going off completely knocked out and then about five seconds later he jumps up bumps his head like that sticks two tissues up his nose on we go lads come on heads the ball away like two seconds later and the headers kept coming didn't they as you'd expect I suppose when you were away at Everton but Barry's a bit of a handful he's a nuisance yeah and that's well that's it it was Everton last season wasn't it where he chucked Tarkovsky into the back of the net when he's kind of giving a bit to Jorow in that game so maybe that's the the physicality of the Premier League sometimes that's maybe where Jorow I don't know if he's ever going to be that kind of player so yeah I don't know what the answer is particularly because I don't know listen I really like Aidan Heaven but I think he did have a difficult game at Hull and I wonder if he'd had a really good game whether he would have stayed in the team but I think that's then difficult with Martinez because he's a big personality he doesn't hide he doesn't hide the fact that he's you know upset at certain moments I think at Carrington or wants certain things done a certain way so if he's out the team I think you'd know about it that shouldn't just automatically put you in the team but I think also he you know again Carrick is probably thinking well he's experienced he's won the World Cup you know he's got that edge to him but I think you see in certain moments where, as against it was switch, okay, it was 5-1 up, but you know, that's the wrong call to make there, isn't it?

23:30And then, as you say there, for one of the Everton goals, the organisation maybe not quite being there. So it's a, yeah, it's not a perfect situation and that's why, I mean, I know that in the end they didn't go that way, but that's why I was sort of hearing in April time that they were looking at a centre back, maybe even on the left side, to come in. Well, you've said it many times, still looking for a defensive leader. And I'm sure that's what they'll then switch their attention to next summer where you've got obviously Maguire's got another plus one hasn't he at the end of this season Martinez I think he's got one year left at the end of this season Luke Shaw's obviously out of contract so you're getting these sort of issues now with the defence where they're gonna have to really look at it and I'm sure they will but obviously in the meantime in the immediate future it just needs tightening up doesn't it could the midfield help because you've got obviously Balaba who is not yet fit but will come in soon hopefully there's Andre Santos as well who obviously started at Hull is a bit more defensive minded than the Manu and Telemans so maybe the maybe you know learning about how to use these players Carrick said it so many times already in his media that the midfield options allow him to pick certain players and certain combinations for certain games so maybe he's still working out exactly who fits where and when which is fine but again if you've won one of your opening three games oh yeah there's going to be more scrutiny we've talked there about the defence I don't think it was just on the defense yesterday I wasn't overly uncomfortable when I saw that start in 11 each of them players I saw Bruno having a real go at Deleuze quite early on because he'd misplaced a pass Maguire picked himself up Martinez I thought he had a very good game at Ipswich but he made that really bad mistake Luke Shaw was good yesterday there's a huge amount of experience there and Laurie was right to say that Aidan Evan did have that difficult first game at Hall where it It was almost like he was targeted.

25:16Maybe target's too strong a word. Lenny Yoro, huge talent, but when he was playing at the start of last season, he was making mistakes. In the air, he's got to be stronger. When I ask the questions, that's what I continually get back. Harry Maguire is brilliant in the air. And set pieces, if you've not got Cesco starting as well, you need somebody there that's dominant, particularly with Martinez. And no Casamero still, because the midfield for all the things they've replaced, that aerial ability from set pieces, it was probably Casemiro's best quality last season. It was. And that connection with Bruno, I think you've got a midfield which is still finding its feet.

25:56I thought Telemans did okay yesterday. I thought it was his best game from a relatively low level start. Beautiful move. He got mistaken as well at times. Yeah. Beautiful move where he took out their midfield with a nutmeg. I'm liking Cobby. Cobby was no problem at all. until their goal goes in twice and you're like it's not on him as well earlier than i thought he would and so rashford there was a suggestion that there was some issue that he felt maybe muscle tightness or something like yeah i got that impression it was a tactical one from what i could see yeah yeah i just thought there's like a malaise around the team where it was a pretty poor performance and low intensity for long periods pockmarked by these moments of brilliance now you're getting away with it if you're winning but you didn't win so that comes back to these these examinations you know they've got to do better because we just can't be talking like this all season and i don't think we will michael carrick is an optimist and i think i'm an optimist i came out the ground yesterday and this fellow was raging at me he's like what we're gonna do and i went i was in the evidence part of the ground this isn't david moise again is it no No, I won't mention him because he'd had a few.

27:09And Andy Ladd, he's like, what are we going to do? And I'm like, who, Everton or United? United, you know me. I've seen you in a pub in Dublin, 94, Bruxelles. You instantly remembered. He was fuming with the performance. Now, I'm making it sound lighthearted. This is a hard-working, match-going Manchester United fan who feels extremely passionate and wasn't happy about the performance yesterday. was raging about the Glazers. And I think every Manchester United fan would agree with that. There's no love there at all. And issues like that come to the fore when the team are not winning matches like yesterday.

27:48I think there's a lot of good players at United. I think that Michael Carrick has got a good handle on things. We were a worldie away from getting a win at Everton. And I'm sounding palsy because I wasn't overly convinced by it. Yeah. It's not like a brilliant performance, which is cruelly snatched away right at the end. It's just a disappointing end to what would have been a good result, basically. There was a few of those last season, wasn't there, where United won. I mean, at Everton last season, for example. But it wasn't like that's a deserved win, absolutely categorical. But you find a way.

28:25And then there's a value in that. It's like, oh, OK, so this team has got that sort of nuance, that street wiseness to do it. Well, I'm watching City this season. They've won three games. They've found a way. Crystal Palace is maybe the one where they really turned it on. And this is obviously, we'll talk more about this later on in the week, heading to the derby. But you've got Crystal Palace away where they had a really shaky start to the game, first 20 minutes, half an hour. But things, well, Marescombe changed things, changed the shape of the midfield and they dominated the game after that.

28:49But Bournemouth at home, really questionable, to be honest, but found a way to win at the end, win 2-1. Coventry at home, literally, chance after chance after chance for Coventry. Donnarumma nearly dribbling it over his own line. But they found a way to win still. And that's ultimately what sets, at times, the top teams apart from the others, is that they find the way. And United have to find a way to find a way in future. I think that's fair. Right, just a couple of positives, if we can. Tom was probably all of us, to be fair. 2.44pm emails on Sunday. Anyone else worried about Brian Mbumo's form recently?

29:27Tom, 3.08pm on Sunday. Lol. It was a brilliant goal from Mbumo. Marcus Rashford as well I think he's the one for me who really stood out in that first half he was an outlet for them I was surprised when he was taken off I guess it was because of an injury and United did lose so much threat when he went off Merlin Roll was not having an enjoyable game at all at right back and he's becoming a feature of this team now isn't he? Yeah I just weren't surprised that he started at all I mean we talked about it after the first game at Hull should he start in this studio weren't we? Carl said yes and I thought the same for Ipswich and I did enough in that game to make me think I warranted another start again and obviously there's the injury the Cesco situation the Armad situation so it'd be interesting how frequently he starts when everybody's fit but I mean I don't you can't really take him out can you I mean okay we'll see what this injury is but it's just the directness that he has it just the the energy you know how Andy was talking about sort of the malaise perhaps.

30:29It didn't feel like he had malaise, which is a stark thing to say when certainly the end of his last spell at United felt that way, to be honest. Yeah, so he seems like he's got the bit between his teeth. That understanding with Luke Shaw is just brilliant. It just seems so intuitive. You've got Shaw bombing on. Some of the runs that Shaw was making, obviously without the ball, to provide that overlap, obviously then for his assist for Sesco's goal was brilliant. He comes from a long way back. And Bruno's obviously sort of waiting and then times the pass well and it's a first-time cross, a great cross.

31:02Sesko just has to get it sort of on target, really, because Pickford, you think, could he save it? But he's kind of going back the other way. So either way, it's a good goal. But yeah, Shaw's understanding with Rashford seems like a real good feature and they picked it right back up from where they left off. And it's just, you've got those two options there where you can either pass it to him down the wing and there's a couple of times, wasn't there, in the first half where he then cuts it back. it's the Cuny chance where Dallow kind of slightly misses it right and then um and then Cuny puts it over and then also even Rashford that I mean that touched like I say to to go past him um straight into the box with the outside of his right because he just it's he's sort of you're thinking okay right he's got the ball what's he going to do with it and before he's even had a moment to pause he's touched it past him and into the box and it's just like I say that directness that I think United need to have in the team at moments to then really inject that energy um and to your point Andy, if managers and coaches are talking about more counter-attacking play coming into the game, I mean, that probably does suit United, the players they've got, you know, really, particularly Rashford there as well.

32:06I agree with Ewan Bumo. I agree with the listener, the viewer, sort of saying, you know, what's happening with him. Because it did feel like it just wasn't quite on the right frequency. I accept that the pass out to Rashford was brilliant, but there was a couple of moments where he's either hit it too hard or under-cooked it. and it just wasn't quite fitting. But then, yeah, the goal was brilliant, wasn't it? Just gets in and goes, you know. I think there was sort of good movement ahead of him. Was it Bruno maybe to create the space for him to run into? But yeah, for him to actually seize onto that and go for it and curl a shot in, superb.

32:40So they've got these moments in them, haven't they? United players, that's the thing. I suppose it's just having that consistency throughout the whole game where you feel like they're building that pressure and they're really trying to score at each moment rather than just retaining the ball for the sake of it. I thought he had a very good game. I think he looks really sharp. I think physically as well. I think he's got the trust of his teammates. They were spraying the ball out to him and Roll is not a natural right back. So maybe they try to take advantage of that. But he was going past him.

33:11I don't even think Roll had a really bad game. And Johnson, was that his Everton debut? Brendan Johnson, it was his first start. I think he'd come off the bench in the previous game. So if he wasn't switched on defensively, Marcus and Luke Shaw just had him. It was really good to see. So that was probably the brightest point of the game. I think Bruno Fernandes needed to find his range a little bit, but he scored a hat-trick last week. He can't be tuned. Hit the bar. It wasn't too far. I mean, that was a great move as well, that one, from back to front, really. Yeah. I'm nodding along. I actually missed it because I was typing away.

33:43So there we go. That's the difference, isn't it? You can watch an Alicante airport on TV and see something that you miss at a game. And I was like gutted with myself. And I look up, what's just happened there? I was typing. But I did see the rest of it. You can groom on any other part of the game. We've gone through Marcus from it being a month ago, there's an 80 % chance of him staying. What? Yeah, it's true. To, well, he'll probably be coming in off the bench. To, as Laurie says, he's a starter now. I think he looks better for what happened at Barcelona. and it's been so complicated with Marcus but if him and Michael Carrick can get a good connection and he can have a second coming at the club that will only help Marcus and Manchester United because he's absolutely got the ability and we've seen it in the games we saw it against Ipswich we saw it against Everton and I think we could see it against Manchester City when he's running at players it's lovely to see he's only been unlucky because he's not had a goal or an assist Michael Carrick alluded to that he did the hard work I don't know how he hasn't he created a lot of chances wasn't he third in the table after two games for chances creating and then he created a couple at least I mean the one for Cunha where Tarkovsky gets the footing from behind some people even wanted a penalty for that but it was a good tackle from behind it was Branthwaite that did the good block or is it a different time you're thinking about there's that moment where Branthwaite tackles it and then blocks it with his head and he's like celebrating like it's a goal and Pickford's celebrating like it's a goal and all the Everton crowd are celebrating like it's a goal any encouragement to celebrate anything.

35:16I mean, he saw him running off for the, anyway, let's not go into that.

35:44No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Some days, getting the work done isn't the problem. Staying locked in is. Alpha Brain is Onnit's daily nootropic formula for cognitive support, designed to support memory, focus, attention, and mental clarity. Its formula with science-driven ingredients include theanine and huperzine A to support focus and memory, and it's caffeine-free.

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37:32We need to talk about the Champions League because Manchester United are back in Europe's elite competition. It all starts again on Thursday at Old Trafford against Sabah, who are pretty much as much of an unknown quantity that you can get these days in European football. They are the Azerbaijani champions, but Tuesday is their ninth birthday. So Manchester United approaching 150 years old, Sabah just nine years old. But to get some more information on United's opponents, We've been sent this report by Mustafa Kamal, who works for CBC Sports, the Azerbaijani broadcaster.

38:10Hello and greetings to all my fellow colleagues. We're coming to you from the capital, Baku. Despite Sabah being just nine years old, the club's dreams, ambitions and goals are much bigger than its age suggests. and now the team is making its debut in the Champions League of course playing at the Theatre of Dreams Old Trafford carries enormous meaning and I think that meaning is just as big for Sabah as it would be for Inter Milan Real Madrid or any of the top clubs in world football and let me assure you if Karaberg were here your local media might be expecting a surprise result from them today but I would say don't be too quick to underestimate Sabah definitely don't rush to that conclusion.

38:57Regardless of who the opponent is, Sabah are a team that like to play attacking football. Whether it's against Manchester United at Old Trafford or against Barcelona in Baku, Sabah's intention and objective will be the same, to play good football and to try to impose themselves on the game. We call the head coach Valdis Dambrauskas a grandmaster and everyone knows what he is capable of, both from what he has done with Sabah and from his work at the clubs he managed before joining Sabah. Because of that, this game could develop very differently from what some people might expect. And that's exactly why there are quite a few people who believe Sabah can produce a different result here and perhaps even a surprise.

39:39We've seen it almost every season in the Champions League, surprises and unexpected results. Over the years, we've seen Barcelona suffer unexpected defeats. We've seen Manchester United lose games. Nobody expected them to lose. We don't even have to go that far back. Last season, Inter lost to Bodo Glimt. So every season, the Champions League produces these kinds of surprises. The Red Devils are the clear favourites against Sabah, especially considering that they haven't had the success they would have wanted in the Champions League for many years. But let's not forget, this is the Champions League.

40:12Surprises are part of this competition, and they are almost inevitable. So we don't want to rush into making any definite predictions. Who should Manchester United be wary of in the Sabah team? In attack, I would mention Mikheils and Simic. And then there are the wing-backs, Pekac and Zadadka. Each of these players can add something different to Sabah's attack. They can bring colour, energy and creativity to the game. And I would also mention your new signing, Nachukwu, as well as Severina. But overall, Sabah are not a team that relies on individual players. They are a collective with strong attacking potential.

40:47In short, Damborovskis likes attacking football, and that's the kind of football Sabal will try to play. Good luck to all of you, and sending you warm greetings and a big hello from Baku.

41:00Yeah, warm greetings and a hello back to you, Mustafa, and thank you so much as well for sending that report in, because we needed to know a bit more about these opponents, because, I mean, it's remarkable, isn't it? Nine years old, and they're in the Champions League. And he's got socks that are older than nine years. Probably wearing them right now. I'm supposed to be a European football journalist who knows stuff like this and I'd never heard of Sabah until the draw. I'm being honest there. I could tell you stuff about Azerbaijani football. Well, Karabag's the team that have made an impact in European competition from Azerbaijan in recent years.

41:34I mean, these won the league by nine points ahead of them last year. They've come through four rounds already as well. A game's pretty, with respect, not the strongest countries. but happy whales be a shaver of israel yeah but okay and a finnish team and a danish team but you can come up against a portuguese or an italian team yeah in those those qualifiers as well so i mean they've done fantastic well and it's an easy united win on thursday especially ahead of the game not at all because you know when they go one up or whatever you're just going to sit there feeling very foolish they have to win don't they united i mean yes they do qualification to the next phase you know it's the first time united are in this league phase They don't have to win for qualifying because there are so many ways out of this league phase.

42:18It's incredible. But just for the build-up to the Derby, just to try and dispel some of the concerns at the start of this season that we've all got, they need to win. Yeah. I mean, the Derby, by the way, United playing Thursday, Sunday. When does City play? City will have like a four-week break. It's Tuesday, right? And then a preceded bear game against the Dog and Duck in the Carabao Cup or whatever City have drawn in the latest. I mean, United are playing a team that's nine years old, so I don't know if we can talk about draws this week. At Old Trafford as well. Sure. Win is needed. It's good to have the Champions League back.

42:49It's good that people who don't normally have an opportunity to go to games can buy tickets relatively easily. We've seen that for the first time in a few years. Suddenly Brighton tickets at home in the League Cubs are, oh, you can go and watch Manchester United. And you don't need to be signed up to a UN convention just to be able to apply for tickets. You can actually just buy a ticket for a football game. and part of the reason is that Sabah are not known for their huge travelling support so I think they'll bring about very very few supporters when what you're alluding to there confidence has got to come from a good performance and from goals a good start because there are some really tough games in this Champions League and I know it favours the bigger clubs so that you get through to the next round but we've seen Manchester United stumble where we haven't expected it Grimsby last year so don't take anything for granted Well, yeah, Mustafa in his report sort of warned us with that as well, to be fair.

43:44He mentioned a couple of players who I think are worth mentioning. Joy Lance Michels has got eight goals already this season. Now, they have played eight games in the Champions League, obviously, like we've just been talking about. Three in the Azerbaijani League as well. They've won all three so far, the second on goal difference in that competition. And another one of the forwards he mentioned too, Velko Simic, seven goals already this season. So it sounds like they are two players that United need to keep quiet. It was a remarkable comeback to beat Hapoel Beersheva in the playoff round to reach the league phase.

44:14They ended up winning in extra time. It was Mikels that got the clincher in the 115th minute, having scored in the 90 plus fourth minute to ensure that the qualifier went to extra time. So there's a bit of a story to get them here, but nothing like the story of the coach. The coach's story is absolutely ridiculous. Valdas Dambrauskas, now he's Lithuanian and he's had quite a way to get here. So basically he took part in the Lithuanian version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire in 2002, won about 750 quid roughly. And that helped him fund a trip to England where he began his coaching journey. Now, a lot of people have been talking about him coaching at Manchester United.

44:57Technically true. He was working with the soccer schools initially when he came over to England. Later worked with Fulham and Brentford and basically credits John Shields. This is from an interview with Dale Johnson on the BBC for beginning his journey. Incredible. Yeah, as was John recently cycling to all 92 football league rounds to raise money for the foundation. Okay, so it's a brilliant story. It shows if you put your mind to something in life, you can achieve it. There are other coaches like this as well. I met a lad in 2014. Who won 750 quid on the Lithuanian version if he wants to be a millionaire.

45:30Don't know about that, but I do know a lad who was working at a shop in Dublin in 2014 and he dreamed of being a coach under Marcello Bielsa and became Leeds United's assistant manager and he's now in charge of the top team in Argentina. And I just saw a completely focused individual and I'm really proud of that lad. So it can happen. It's a brilliant story. Manchester United Foundation or soccer school is very different, I'm afraid, to Manchester United because you pay for one or you receive coaching for free for one and the other is judged on merit. But it is a brilliant story that he's now managing a team in the Champions League.

46:06And I'd just rather use that point to highlight the great work that the foundation does in the communities around Manchester. And the fact that children who might not have access to coaching from future Champions League managers is a really good thing that Manchester United's charitable arm can offer. Looking at the interview that he's done with the BBC, he says he was a gardener, a handyman. He did newspaper rounds at the beginning. He polished floors in pubs. he worked in retail then he moved his way up to being a sports development officer so i mean it's not that long ago it's only sort of just over 20 years ago that he was doing this and now he's a you know azerbaijani champion and champions league boss yeah fair play to him and i mean old trafford what a stage to start your champions league proper i know he's saying they've had four rounds prior to this point but this this feels like you know this will be the you've got the music playing you know it's a huge stage stadium huge stage for them i just hope that he doesn't have a fairy tale start or ending whichever way you want to frame it anyway great that united are back in this yes yes it's been a long time uh and some great trips i mean we got lucky didn't we i think with some of the away trips the fans hopefully can get to i know quite quite a few como is happening como is happening yes we can clarify that can't we it's been confirmed small allocation um but i know quite a few people that were obviously straight onto the flights because the flights just go up.

47:27It's extortionate. And so I suppose if you go a little bit of a time difference, maybe you get them a bit cheaper. The land's easy to get. Yeah, but it's just the flights. If you want them at specific times, they just go up, don't they? But yeah, so let's start with Sabah and let's hopefully get a win and then United can build and just get more. Because this will be interesting, I won't see. Now that they are midweek games, how will this squad cope with that? I think probably to your point earlier on, the defence, once Belieber's fit, surely he would help that scenario. Because the dynamism that he's got, the kind of tackling ability that he's got, the second ball winning that he's got, which was announced in the press release signing in, which is interesting, right?

48:10There's been kind of data points in each announcement, I think, for players that have signed, which is clearly a sign. United trying to show this is part of what we're doing with signings now. I thought it was interesting as well that when he was unveiled to Old Trafford before the game against Ipswich, people were mentioned and he was given the big sell at the very end by the stadium presentation and Alan Keegan doing the announcement. It was very much like a marquee-ish signing in the way that it was presented to the crowd at least. Yeah, well I suppose he ended up costing the most money, didn't he?

48:44Yeah. Which is interesting that they did leave it that late in the window. So we talked about, haven't we, were they always going to do that or was it part of, you know, I think they were looking around. So, but yeah, we weren't sure. I think we mentioned that on the pod, didn't we? I was surprised. You thought it had happened. Yeah. I was surprised. Yeah. It's a bit of positivity and it may be, you know, losing the whole. That's really interesting because you've got, at halftime yesterday I said it's, this is what's happened at halftime. Then just got this huge wave of negativity. Well, our comments section on YouTube, for example, and people are very much entitled to their opinion.

49:19I'd encourage people to get involved in the comments because it helps us get a gauge of how people are feeling. But, you know, push back on quite a lot of the sort of positive points that people have tried to present. And I think Michael Carrick and the club are trying to do this as well. It's not as bad as you think it is. And we don't know what the end answer is going to be. But I do think social media lends itself to pure negativity. That's what does well on social media. And there's a wider point to that, isn't there? So obviously you might just say, well, listen, Carrick would say that because he's trying to present a positive spin.

49:48But actually, I think there is a wider point to then get results. Because if you've got this sense that things are bad and then people's trust in each other maybe starts to fragment, they do read stuff. The impending doom that you feel at times when you're 1-0 down at home to Ipswich or you're trying to hold on to a lead at Everton, the impending doom, that's the point I think that United have to get past. And I thought they were past it, to be honest. I thought the end of last season, the group, the mentality of everyone, the fan base, the whole thing, we were past that. And unfortunately, the way that they started the season losing at Hull, it feels like there is that feeling back again that this could go wrong or there could be something about to go wrong in-game.

50:31And they need to build that trust again. It did feel like that against it, but they did, they conceded the first goal and they could have been two, but then they came back strongly. so hopefully that's a little bit of a riposte to that but i agree with you that even the sesco goal isn't a riposte to that but then you can see that's it so i don't think you ever get past it i think it's a mindset of the football fan you read the comments of man united everyone yeah everyone i think you've got to protect the players because they've got to believe in what michael carrick's doing and the minute they don't you've got a problem there but i've done the fanzine for a long time and i can remember the comment we had a letter in april 08 ferguson doesn't know what he's doing he won the european cup a month later intelligent humans are sending me this stuff and it's like you prove me wrong and i'll be angry until the point you prove me wrong and there's a lot of that about you see it the best one was top them away three nil down 20 2001 this is a disgrace fergie's got to go i knew this was coming it's absolutely a part of man united scored five goals in the second half got all my hands up until the next week and i think it's the psyche of every football fan but yesterday half time i'm struck wow so what what do you put out at half time then that it's um what the score was and uh it had been okay and just a synopsis neutral pretty neutral marcus rashford's playing well wall of negativity absolute wall of negativity and then at the end of the game and maybe that's because of the mood among the fans maybe there's other things well listen you've got the ticket situation that is you know a very serious issue I think and that's it's kept on going you know from last season as well so you know this idea that are the fans you know welcome what kind of fans do you want at these games then also spending money in the transfer market could they have spent more I mean that's the big one yeah so that's why I think maybe you've got that lingering sense and only results would ease that, wouldn't they?

52:32Because then you could say, well, listen, we knew what we were doing because we feel like we've got enough players. But once those questions are coming because the results aren't quite there, then it, I think, stays and stays and maybe escalates. Who do you want to see start against Sabah? Oh, well, you probably want to change it up. Yeah, you've got to change it up a bit. I don't know. Carrick kind of likes to stay consistent, doesn't he, with his selections. But I just think it's difficult when you then, you're going Thursday, Sunday, with Man City on the Sunday and that feels like a big... If they go and do what they did last season against City, which you feel, if you touched on there, City have been a little bit Jekyll and Hyde in moments.

53:11They've looked really good in periods but they've also looked very vulnerable and still feeling each other through and lots of changes in their team, new manager obviously. So you feel like if United actually go and do what they did last season then that negativity would be, not erased, but he'd certainly reduce. So do you want them to go full strength in this Sabah game or do you want people like... No, I think change. Andre Santos, Benjamin Sesko. Yeah, I'd like to see Sesko start actually. Yeah, I would like to see Sesko start just because I think he, we sort of said this last season, didn't we?

53:41But he feels like a player that once he gets into his rhythm, it's then that he's at his best rather than kind of coming in. Although he does score off the bench, but I feel like I'd like to see him get more minutes so that you can start him, maybe against City. Have the option at least. Yeah, yeah. What do you think? You have to rotate. You have a squad. I know the season's relatively young. I know Michael Carrick tends to lean into the people who've served him so well. But if you're not trusting some of these players against an Azerbaijani team at home, then you question why they're leaving at the club.

54:13So I think he will trust them. Sesko needs minutes. I think everyone would like to see more of Andre Santos. Nusmas Rawi needs to find that verb that he had in his first season at the club. So you've got little pointers all over the field. I don't think we're going to be seeing a second goalkeeper used like maybe we would have seen in European campaigns in the past. But there is a huge game on Sunday at Old Trafford where I want Mr Martinez to remind his compatriots who are the top dogs in Manchester. It's a big week for Manchester United. They're all big weeks. Yesterday felt like a big game because the mood's not been set.

54:50We don't know how good this team is and we're all sort of being pulled left, right and centre because we're nervous and we're anxious about how good this team is. And expectations are high, as they should be, because it's Manchester United. Is this a good game to start in the Champions League? Yeah, it is. You could be going away to Napoli. You could have an away game with a four-hour flight. You could be going to Azerbaijan. That would be worse, yeah. We've been there. It's tricky to get to, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Well, I took it back from in that period because it was COVID times and you had to have the, I never miss my flights unless there's a connection that doesn't quite work out.

55:26But no, you had to get tested, didn't you? If you got positive, you had to stay there for two weeks. So fortunately. It's a bit of a lottery. So you're at home and you're against one of the lowest ranked teams in the competition. Maybe the lowest ranked. You cannot ask for more than that. But then could you have asked for any more than Hull City and Ipswich at the start of the Premier League season? So it can work in weird ways. What do you think? What, is it a good game to start with? Yeah, because I just think it should be three points right and then you sort of okay at least you're off to you've got that credit but obviously then on flip side if it doesn't work out then the pressure really starts to crank up but I feel like United will win Okay alright well let's hope so let's hope we're back on this podcast after the game on Thursday talking about Manchester United in a more positive way as we build up to Manchester Derby that's when we'll be back on Talk the Devils for the moment thank you for listening and watching along Andy and Laurie thank you for your company here in the studio and we'll see you on the next one take care bye bye

56:44The Athletic FC.

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