Man United's Greatest Players: Part Three

0:00With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. 98 of the top 100 U.S. accounting firms trust Bill to handle Bill Pay processes. Why? Because our tools are built on over a trillion dollars of secure payments. We're not just moving money. We're powering financial workflows for half a million customers.

0:39That's a level of expertise you just can't fake. Ready to talk with an expert? Visit bill.com slash proven to get started and grab a$150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details. Some days getting the work done isn't the problem. Staying locked in is. AlphaBrain is Onnit's daily nootropic formula for cognitive support, designed to support memory, focus, attention, and mental clarity. Its formula with science-driven ingredients include theanine and huperzine A to support focus and memory, and it's caffeine-free. So when you're deep in the work, AlphaBrain helps support enhanced productivity and tune out distractions.

1:19Get focused on what matters. Shop AlphaBrain now at onnit.com.

1:28The Athletic FC

1:45This is Talk The Devils, the athletic show dedicated to Manchester United and here we are finally, the final rundown of the top five players in Manchester United history. Andy Mitton has done it for The Athletic. The articles are up on there if you want to go and have a read. On two previous episodes we've run through from 25 to 11 and 10 to 6 and here we are with the final rundown. We'll just give you a quick reminder then of some of the players in this list from numbers 25 down to 6. There are some of the biggest names in Manchester United's history in this list. The likes of Wayne Rooney, of Eric Cantona, Cristiano Ronaldo Peter Smeichel Duncan Edwards heroes of yesteryear like Billy Meredith and Bill Foulkes Bruno Fernandes is a current player the only one in this top 25 list I don't think that's too much of a spoiler but anyway Andy and Laurie are here in the studio in Manchester and this is the final five how are you feeling Andy?

2:48Alright

2:48Andy Mitten: I've enjoyed talking about it so far I hope that the people watching and listening have as well and looking forward to this one Laurie and I I've certainly enjoyed it. So I'm sure people will love watching as well. Number five is Roy Keane. Let's get straight into it. My big thing here was who's going to be higher in the list, Brian Robson or Roy Keane. And it is something which has tortured my soul for the last 20 or 30 years. And the comments section and DMs that we've received in the last few weeks since doing this list. How dare you put Keane above Robson, above, et cetera, et cetera. And I put Brian Robson above Roy Keane.

3:23Andy Mitten: But they're both absolute greats and legends of Manchester United. Well, Brian Robson's number four, so that is a bit of a spoiler. But let's take Roy Keane in isolation. I know it's a big part of the consideration weighing these two off, but why is Roy Keane so high in the first place? Because he was the best midfielder in arguably Manchester United's greatest ever side. He was a club captain. He was the driving force. he set the tempo on the training pitch he had such exacting standards that he pushed the limits and non-partisans would say he went beyond the pale in terms of pushing and pushing and pushing and he was a wonderful footballer he's in there because he has a longevity as well he signed and played over a decade for manchester united in many ways he was ferguson's man on the pitch the man carrying out the orders i also found him incredible incredibly compelling as a person probably the greatest interviews i've ever done with been with roy keen and i found him so engaging and someone who understood fan culture you just pick up on little things when you speak to him he'd go yeah I know I know he's talking I know who them lads are over there and other footballers just wouldn't have a clue he could differentiate he was smart enough to decipher what was going on and he was funny and give you stick as well and give his teammates stick and just remember him pulling me once in pre-season press conference why haven't I asked a question why haven't I asked a question just answer me laser straight into you making you feel really uneasy the only other person who could do that and would do that was ferguson so that's maybe why two bulls in the same pen yeah yeah but he's in there primarily because as a footballer he has the best first touch of and his passing was so accurate and fast and clean that that doesn't get acknowledged enough i don't know the touch and the passing, the Christmas.

5:41Because of the aggression and the tackling. Yeah, great tackle. And the leadership and the mentality. He'd slaughter players who didn't have that touch.

5:47Andy Mitten: He would slaughter Dwight York. He would say to him in the middle of the game, you are terrible as a footballer. Because his first touch wasn't absolutely perfect. So his mind was so quick. His story is really compelling as well. Rejected as a kid. Came through Cove Ramblers, writing letters to people. And then he finds this kindred spirit in Brian Clough at Nottingham Forest. and one of his first ever games is at Liverpool away, Liverpool are the top dogs, and he's just the best player on the pitch. So, so much to admire about Roy Keane. And as a person, it's not a coincidence that his two autobiographies, I think they're the best-selling books ever in Ireland after the Bible.

6:27Oh, wow. Yeah. And they're brilliant. They're just brilliantly written. Where do yours rank? Mine's number four, actually. My last book was number nine bestseller in Ireland. Go on. Number nine. In that year, not of all time. Not of all time. Just to clarify. I'm quite happy that it was good enough. Yeah, no, listen, sorry, not to denigrate, brilliant achievement. But his books, you were saying, speak to somebody that is very sharp, intelligent, understands the personality that comes from human nature. I haven't read them. And I think with him, it is strength of personality, isn't it? Even now, as a pundit, he's definitely a sort of caricature of what you expect of Roy Keane.

7:05but that strength of personality, Ferguson on the pitch, you know, the sort of, again, the controversy and rage that he played with, that's what made people love him, wasn't it? Yeah, well, I mean, when you say strength of personality, my mind goes to Turin and United being 2-0 down, him scoring, then getting booked, being suspended for the final but still putting in a performance that drove United there. Key clarification that, scored them booked. Yeah, he scored before he was booked. but still I think it still rings true that regardless of the fact that he wasn't going to play in the final he put in a performance that got United there it was a great team performance that it wasn't just him that game but that was probably his biggest moment I don't know

7:49Andy Mitten: you might correct me on that the greatest performance I've ever seen from a Manchester United player in my life Laurie okay there we go so you are underlining an exclamation mark and he just dismisses you and goes did all right so that's it just do my job so is that part of a bit do you think or is that actually genuinely he he's taking his own view of what he considers to be you know his job you know the thing that he you know critiques people over he does to himself so it's kind of fair i think that's from stories i've heard of people who've been managed by him i think it was almost the thing that he couldn't get his head around when he was a manager is that players weren't capable of some of the incredible things that he could do which he saw as mundane yeah and they're not mundane nothing about it is mundane the touch that you talked about that is definitely an aspect that just doesn't really get even appreciated how good a footballer he was technically yeah he was and he could have probably played in that great juventus team he could have played in any team in the world yeah that midfield by the way that night is zidane david's conte d 'olivio de champ as well de champ sorry de champ yeah yeah de livio was a sub they're the best team in the world and he knew it and he was motivated enough we've seen the footage of him in the tunnel with Patrick Vieira.

9:02Andy Mitten: Patrick Vieira is probably the closest player to him. What a moment that is, by the way. That's one of the greatest moments in United. It's nice that they get on. It wasn't even a football thing, really. But he'd speak out as well. He'd say, the atmosphere is not good enough. You're all prawn sandwich eaters. And he was right. It wasn't good enough. United fans were spoiled by success and became lazy in the stadium. The fans weren't as good as the team. And that was 2001? I've got it in my head November 2000. Right. So that's just after they've won the treble. Yeah, yeah. You're not good enough.

9:33Andy Mitten: And he was right. Fans don't like hearing that. We're delivering. Why aren't you? I mean, that phrase is now just embedded in football language. Someone said it to me at the Manchester Derby the other day. They were doing a corporate job and it's like, oh, the food will be all right. So yeah, it'll be prawn sandwiches. It's still going now, isn't it? I mean, there are people who love jokes from the 90s. Sometimes when Manchester United are mentioned, they're all coming up from London, the fans. Nice one, mate. Yeah. have you ever invented DVDs?

10:06But he was sharp. I think that's it, right? And you need to have that sustained level of success. You need that sharpness. What about the red cards and the Haaland incident and falling out with Ferguson? Maybe that meant that Erling Haaland would never play for United, even though Ole Gunnar Solskjaer wanted him to. I think that's a genuine aspect to it. They've always been my rivals, is the quote that he gave.

10:28Andy Mitten: I think it's really sad that Roy Keane and Sir Alex Ferguson in 2026 are not close and have a warm relationship. And I really hope that is repaired. I think it's sad, Roy Keane's relationship with Manchester United. It's all stopped, actually. Yeah, I agree. You've got the Ferguson version of history, but that's only one man's version of history. And Keane's got his own version. And Paul Ince was a great player for Manchester United. They made the top 25. and i'd argue that um but ferguson's has controlled history because he was the victor in in in everything paul inter's got a very different story about why he left manchester united to alex ferguson's and roy keen a lot of players have sided with fergie even if privately they're like didn't like his methods he didn't like this and keen didn't keen spoke his mind I put my body on the line for you.

11:25Andy Mitten: And when I got injured because of you, and when push came to shove, you didn't stand by me. And he was critical, maybe to a fault. Maybe the club didn't want him to be critical and outspoken. But as a journalist, that's what made him fascinating because he was so honest, because he was so outspoken and witty and cutting. And he's a great, he's an absolute great. If there's a statue of Roy Keane outside the ground, he probably wouldn't turn up for its unveiling. I love the idea that somewhere in a box, in a dusty loft, there's a tape of that MUTV interview. Because I've spoken to people who haven't seen it, but I've heard about what was on it.

12:10And I don't think it was actually anywhere near as bad as how it's been remembered.

12:15Andy Mitten: I think there's compassion there. Sometimes it's criticised rightly, but I hear a lot of stories in Manchester of Roy turning up to sit with someone who's dying for two hours loads of that turning up and doing an event not taking any money for it a lot of them stories and I think that reflects well on him I don't think he does it for for that reason and I find his renaissance quite interesting appealing to a generation of new people where he's become a social media meme i loved his instagram just found it really funny where he describes his wife as his first wife he's his only wife but she's fascinating because she's got the the measure of it imagine putting up with that all these years yeah but i once met her and she was lovely i'm sure she is yeah and when i say compassionate in that 99 game that lorry talked about yes blomquist gave him a ball which led to roy getting sent off and roy refused to speak to him for seven weeks and yes but correctly said um wasn't even a bad ball it's not i've seen it recently it was not a bad pass okay i'm glad you've said that because i've had people in ireland who are big keenites going it was a bad ball you can maybe debate the merits of it a bit but keen's touch i don't know we've just sort of said how great it is and it was a great performance yeah and i told roy this and he was like yes but hell of a player and when i've seen roy talk about yes but since he's like my yes brought to be better than lino messi i know met yes for recently and he's like roy say some very complimentary things about me now so i think he's aware of strength of his words yeah as a manager maybe his strengths become a weakness yeah but he did a hell of a job at Sunderland.

14:06Andy Mitten: Absolutely. 2006, when I did Paddy Creran's autobiography, and Paddy had been very close to him. So in the 90s, I'd meet them two for lunch. Paddy was saying, this is the next Man United manager, Roy Keane. Didn't work out because Sunderland unraveled, unfortunately. And there's obviously Saipan and there's everything that happened with him. The international team to add into the mix with Keane. But obviously that's international. Right, well, you've told us already. The next one's Brian Robson. So how, first of all, how did you separate these two? Because Rob also agreed to climb Kilimanjaro with me for charity.

14:38That's a good reason.

14:40Andy Mitten: Someone said something to me when I was torturing my soul about these two and just said Robbo got the goals. And it stuck with me that. Who would you pick? Well, I've picked Robbo over Keane in the list. But that's in the greatest players. If you're picking a team to go out and win a game tomorrow, who would you pick? Both. No, you can't. Both. Not allowed. Both amazing Not allowed Who else is in the midfield then? Paul Scholes Okay It's a really It's an It's an argument I agree but He could theoretically put Robson and Keane in the same midfield It's a stupid question Because they didn't exist at the same time really Close Close At the start But Keane was early Robson was late But both of them in the prime Alright I'll answer this if you answer this one Who's your favourite child?

15:29Next question Okay Robson kept a faltering club alive throughout a decade best player in the league for a team that were far from the best social convener captain of england almost 100 caps scored great goals

15:45Andy Mitten: the team was never good enough to win the league he was injury riddled because he was so committed to the tackle to flying into challenges maybe to a fault working class lad from chesterly street his dad was a long distance truck driver he didn't see much of his dad got to know him quite well in recent years and totally totally different to keem i'm baffled that he grew up in a village and didn't know the band prefab sprout came out the village and he'd never heard of him i haven't brian they're like a world famous band and you've never heard of them i was never into music and just into football but they're from your village Prefab Sprout yeah brilliant songwriter alright I'm not expecting you two but if someone live around your corner and have number one albums in what year?

16:3880s? 90s? I'm scared to say is he trolling us with like this made up name I'm not trolling you but clearly it must be like a famous band that we're going to get killed for in the comments

16:46Andy Mitten: so player player player gets in there because of longevity happy ending which is what I hope for Bruno Fernandes he ends up winning the league record transfer signing when he signed from West Bromwich Albion where he was a great player. Loads of West Brom fans got in touch after this which was lovely. The single most compelling reason for watching Manchester United in the 1980s. That's what he wrote. Yeah, and I agree with that. He was just a hero. I agree with myself. I agree with myself. Also a commercial you know, big star footballer overwhelmed by the the level of interest in him. And then a great human and I learned that when I climbed that mountain with him and he was 67 years old and his body's failing him and he just went on and on and on and there were people half my age to a third of his age who had serious mountaineering experience were really struggling but Brian Robson at five and a half thousand meters at three in the morning were just going up and up and motivating people and you're just seeing this man is a warrior.

17:51Andy Mitten: You can see why it served him so well on a football pitch, this proud Geordie. Newcastle United fan as a kid. You just see he's still got it. And his ankle's like that big, but there's no way he wasn't getting to the top. But again, it's as a footballer. The goals, semi-final, FA Cup replay, Liverpool away at Main Road. And he runs away and escapes the best midfield of the best team. Liverpool were the best team. Smashes it. He just gave you something to cling on to. Lad's a little bit older than me. I remember him. He was a hero of mine. I suppose is that something, just to do the difference with him and Keane, unfortunately Keane wasn't in the final in 99, was he?

18:31He had the FA Cup final in 96, to be fair, Keane, where he put in a brilliant performance. But Robson had 91, cut when it was Cup final. Two brilliant assists, really. Better than 84 Barcelona. But you can see the quality of the passing, again on these pitches that are nowhere near as much of a carpet as they are now but the balance and the kind of foresight to have it so yeah maybe that's something that slightly edges them I don't know the final the kind of key moments in trophies being won although Keane's got the titles hasn't he? I was going to say the other argument is the league titles and the other argument is that Keane lifted his team to levels that Robson couldn't lift the team to exactly and

19:13Andy Mitten: you miss that in the final Dennis Law maybe have been higher had he missed a few games dennis lord european cup final 68 so unfortunate isn't it yeah and that's nothing against them they didn't want to didn't want to miss them robson was the man very very different times you know his methods if there was a problem in the team would be to go out and have a big drinking session together and air their issues with each other over five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen pints and yet it'd still be at the front in training the next day i think he carried the the badge well of being a captain which is something captain marvel he gave us hope in some difficult times and he played crowds were a fraction of the size they are now united was still the best supported club but English football was blighted by hooliganism, was blighted by the disasters and the tragedies at Heysel and Hillsborough.

20:14Andy Mitten: Brian's wife couldn't go and watch him play in an FA Cup semi-final because he told her, he said to Denise, it's too dangerous. He did the same for England as well. The quality of my sources on him were impeccable. Diego Maradona, the best two players from your country. So we got this bit wrong. We're Graeme Souness and Brian Robson. So obviously Scotland's different to England. Didn't need to point out. The sentiment was there.

20:54With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it.

21:34You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on Lowe's.com, right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that at Lowe's. Investing with Schwab is like spending a Saturday at a great farmer's market. You can fill your reusable tote with a bit of everything. Maybe you go for some free-range, self-directed investing. Or perhaps you pick up a few farm-fresh trades while you peruse. You can even get help from a dedicated advisor. That's full-service wealth management. Mix, match, and change your mind whenever you want.

22:10Because at Schwab, you can invest your way. No matter your goals or appetite for investing, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place. Visit schwab.com to learn more.

22:33Right, we're into the top three. Actually, that makes Brian Robson Manchester United's greatest ever captain in your eyes.

22:40Andy Mitten: Pretty high for Rob O 'Lat. Yeah. And I stand by my choice. One of the people not wear the armband. They've worn the armbands, have they not? They've worn the armband, but not a captain captain, I don't think. But anyway, you might correct me in a moment. Number three, George Best. Another Ballon d 'Or winner. 1968 Ballon d 'Or winner. he'd be number one for a lot he really would he was that good it's the thrill of him isn't it yeah just the ability as a footballer the games doing it at the highest level doing it in the european cup final being the main man in uh one of the main men in an amazing manchester united team the stardust the sparkle the celebrity of it all as well first you know if billy meredith was the first football superstar then then george best took it to another level he was a beautiful looking human you know paddy creran said if he wasn't beautiful his career would have been even better because he just attracted so many people and um it's fair to say he was generous with his affections and a lot of those quotes around about him are true with with miss worlds and and that kind of stuff but i spent a lot of money on booze yeah fast cars and yeah the rest of the waste some of them are exaggerated when you actually do proper digging into them like the story about the waiter who walks into the room yeah not really true but people don't people would prefer to believe that he is in um he's in a london hotel and he's with miss world and there's money all over the bed and a little irish waiter walks in and says where did it all go wrong george but straight away is the journalist thinking well why would you spread money over a bed what's the logic in that and uh it's exaggerated um but but there were the were quotes which are true like some people say that um you know winning in a cup final is better than going out with or having relationships with miss worlds i'm pleased to say i've done both you know so i can choose but again you can't get away with any of that if you're not an amazing footballer same with Cantona the backstory is good he's come out of Belfast which was a turbulent place Protestant background in in Belfast as the troubles were starting to kick off came over to Manchester a teen star plays in Benfica away in 66 when Matt Busby says look Benfica are brilliant there's going to be 100 ,000 people here Eusebio is going to be presented with the the ballon door just be cagey in the first 25 minutes quiet in the crowd and george best just ignores that goes out and scores twice and then he's crowned el beetle by the portuguese press so this is an uh someone of the 60s the beetle mania he was part of that major star with his own fan club and and football boots and clove shop in manchester and very good friends with mike summerby who played for manchester city so that showed relationships could happen between the two clubs and city had a great team as well in the 60s they won the league in 68 when united won the european cup and best was it was it was it was a hero he was an icon i went pre-season to trondheim and on the walls of a public house in trondheim were quotes and huge murals of two people, Liam Gallagher, believe it or not, and George Best.

26:14Andy Mitten: And you can pick from 100 George Best quotes, but he was an alcoholic as well, and he died too young. And in the end, it's real sadness. I said to one of his teammates, I'm putting George here, and he said if he would have played longer and he could have been one. He stopped playing for United at 26-27, but he'd played as many games as like brian robson he played a huge number of games when he was young but he made lifestyle choices he the bright lights were for him living in london and i met him interviewed him a few times and he was a colorful feature of the tabloid newspapers i say that with some sadness actually but people still make the pilgrimage you can go visit his house in belfast now you can sleep in it you see posters in countries where they don't like the anglo-saxon world like argentina and yet george best proliferates there yeah he was so much more than being linked to a country or even a football club at times because he's so distinctive looking yeah an incredible footballer as well and you know worthy of his place in that trinity at the front of old Trafford.

27:28I remember when he died and the outpouring of grief and the number of tributes outside. You couldn't hardly walk to the ground for the number of flowers and messages and everything left in tribute to him. An incredible player. The great quote actually from Michael Parkinson, which is in your piece, who's an old English chat show host and journalist, I suppose, for people who aren't aware of him, maybe elsewhere in the world. He says, My only reaction upon hearing that George Best had been named footballer of the year by claiming 60 % of the vote was to ask my informant, who on earth did the remaining 40 % go for?

28:06Yeah, just an absolute icon. And maybe the only man with an airport named after him that we've used together.

28:11Andy Mitten: Yeah, we have, haven't we? On our trip over to Belfast for the live show. So, Belfast Airport is named after George Best, Liverpool's after John Lennon. That shows the level that you're at. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. right we're into the final two um i think people will know who's left because they are you know two huge names in the history of manchester united no question one is the top appearance maker one is the second highest appearance maker one as the seventh most goals in manchester united's history and is the most decorated player as well and the other one is his second on the all-time list was replaced by Wayne Rooney.

28:52How on earth have you separated these two? Who have you gone for at number two? Ryan Giggs.

28:58Andy Mitten: And he blitzes absolutely everybody for longevity. I never thought that would happen. 963 appearances. I even worked out how many friendly games and youth games he played. I got to number 106.3. He didn't know that. He didn't even know what in his first game was. He played at age 14. 14 because I know like king nerds who told me. So you're like the prince nerd? Nah, I'm not at their level. Yeah, good point. He played at Colchester in 88 when he was 14. I said you played this game and he had no idea. Really? Yeah, he had no idea. As far as he's slept since. Yes, but I didn't know that Ryan was watching this list, counting down.

29:47Andy Mitten: and he had pretty strong opinions actually on who should be where and and he's just said to me i would have been delighted with top five and then he was two so when we were getting to like 14 i'd get a message on my phone dem eyes you know him don't you yeah he's witty isn't he yeah yeah yeah i think so wittier than he's dry yeah yeah he's sharp sharp and studies the game and has got a real investment in United still. Yeah. And I can see why you've put him number two, not quite number one. I think those top two make sense to me. Yeah. So, games, played in great teams, came through the youth system, attacking player, adapted his game several times.

30:34I think that's probably the thing that elevates him above Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Paul Scholes adapted his game, But the way that he did it and then actually starting in Champions League finals in central midfield or at least one and coming on in another. But yeah, to do that and the nostalgia, the kind of romanticism of him breaking to Bobby Charlton's appearance record whilst winning the European Cup in Moscow, whilst scoring the winning penalty in Moscow is ridiculous really. Let me just say that again. Did he score the winning penalty? I'd forgotten that yeah so he scores it and then Anelka misses but and yeah he comes on in the game is it for Paul Scholes I can't remember but he was also the one who said get Anderson on so again his voice is listened to because Ando's brilliant at penalties well when I was saying about you know Brian Robson being the greatest captain I mean Giggs was a captain as well wasn't he he's not maybe the automatic thought of a United captain he lifted that trophy with Rio because Rio Ferdinand was the captain on the day for that period actually because Gary Neville was injured but then yeah Giggs and him lift it together and the only player that has played in both 99 and 2008 yeah Neville no Neville was out Scholes didn't play in 99 but let the dressing room you're right so he didn't play in 2008 that's the thing about him I think as well is that when you do speak to people who played with him and certainly people who arrived when Giggs was there he definitely ran the dressing room he said to me he was the first in each morning since i told that to gary neville who said that's a lie i was okay all right you got in there early and he'd sit there with a 360 view watching everyone come in and clocking what they're wearing and if you dared wear something that was outside his view of manchester salford fashion then you were going to get slaughtered so if you dare come in as dimitar berbatov did wearing a leather jacket geeks is just gonna follow you and go oh why or if you come in late he just start looking at his watch like that and just not even saying anything but also making a serious point don't be late for training another enforcer of ferguson's yeah yeah in a different way in a different way and as he

33:03Andy Mitten: got older ferguson started to listen to him more and look he had his conflict big time you know he didn't get on with carlos chiaros chiaros arrived and just said why aren't i seeing the gigs who are growing up watching on tv he's like all right carlos nice to meet you anyway i'm ryan and he called him gigs rather than gigsy or ryan which was part of an issue which is kind of interesting the little details that kind of can cause a little bit of issue in a dressing room and yeah but I think in terms of the sort of smarts that he had I think he's got an incredible recall for games and matches and tactics and he could really take on board what he was being asked to do obviously it's hard to get away from I just mentioned Moscow but it's hard to get away from Arsenal FA Cup semi-final 99 I mean just wow I was there as a kid and that's his moment blown away but there was so many obviously and there were loads there were so many games I know but Owen Hargreaves said this to me recently as a player you're almost remembered for sort of five moments whether those moments are good or bad have a huge say in in how you are remembered as a player um and obviously with gigs you could name five but the one i would name straight away is him in that semi-final replay against arsenal in 99 and swinging the shirt around his head the way it went past all the arsenal defenders and then hit it over the top of david seaman into the roof of the net being behind the goal that night as well yeah the way you were moments stand out i was on the side i was on the side we were all there as well so we were all in the new camp yeah we were all there that's nice isn't it but the ones that will never get in the list Deportivo away Juventus away where he was the best player by a mile against great team the Porto game as well I can't remember that one I could yeah Porto which one 4-0 wasn't it Old Trafford yeah March 97 I think oh sorry right but you're going to Deportivo who've been the Spanish champions or you're going to Turin against Juventus away and he's just running past these world-class players.

34:59Andy Mitten: And again, I feel a bit sad reminiscing like this. Yeah. The thing with gigs though, I suppose, Laurie, is the fact that there has been a lot that's happened off the field with him in his private life. The court cases and some of the controversy as well does cloud people's judgment of him, unfortunately. Yeah. Listen, it's why he's not Wales manager anymore. He was Wales manager, stepped away from it. But yeah, and that is probably why he's not in the conversation. I think he would still like to be a manager, but it would be difficult, right? Maybe there's opportunities abroad. But I think if we're talking about a purely football decision here in terms of the greatest ever, I still think that has a value and a merit to putting him high up in the list because you can't erase what he did as a player.

35:58And so, yeah, as we've touched on already, I think the moments that he's given, the joy, and the different ways that he's affected games from the passing late on in his career, obviously the dribbling. But yeah, I think obviously the stuff outside of the game is why he's not more of a prominent figure in it right now. Yeah, I mean, obviously there's been the stuff with the Premier League Hall of Fame and things like that and different considerations, but I'm guessing you've made this just purely on a footballing sense. It's a difficult thing to do.

36:29Andy Mitten: Well, we can talk about other players. You know, George Best was convicted of various things. It's pretty awkward. These people are heroes, but they make mistakes. They're human. Some make more mistakes than others. Some have been judged in the court of public opinion as well. I decided quite early that Ryan Giggs was going to be really high in that list for the reasons which I outlined. When we published it, the reaction was huge, Ian. Huge. And in a positive way as well. So I'd love to think that Ryan can be involved in football again and can give football because, as Laurie said, he's a good watcher of football, isn't he?

37:16Andy Mitten: He's a good watcher. He's analytical. Yeah, no, yeah. I think so. And I think it would be a shame if he didn't contribute to the football world again.

37:35With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. I'm Jake Stouck, co-founder and CEO of Serval. We built Serval to automate the IT work that slows companies down. Onboarding, password resets, access to applications, my laptop stopped working. While employees wait for help, their real work is put on hold.

38:16IT desperately wants to automate this work, and that's why they need Serval. You just tell Serval what you want to automate in plain English, and it's built. No drag-and-drop workflows, no expensive consultants. Employees get unblocked, and IT teams go from drowning in tickets to building what actually matters. With Serval, IT becomes the AI engine powering the entire company. This is a new way to run IT. We guarantee you'll automate 50 % of all tickets and we'll prove it to you in a free four-week pilot. Go to serval.com slash tickets. That's S-E-R-V-A-L dot com slash tickets. Hey, it's Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad and the holidays are around the corner, which means I'm officially entering my hostess Hannah era with Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter.

39:04You guys know I love cats and fostering, but when I'm hosting, I do not want my house smelling like cats. I want people focusing on my hosting skills. That's why I love Arm & Hammer Hardball Cat Litter. It delivers long-lasting odor control and forms compact clumps that make cleanup easy, so that's one less thing I need to worry about when people come over. Be guest ready with Arm & Hammer Cat Litter. Find it now at Walmart or Amazon.

39:40right we have come to it number one in the all-time list of Manchester United's players through the eyes is soul whatever else the tortured soul Andy Mitten who is Manchester United's greatest ever player in your opinion?

40:04Andy Mitten: Manchester United's greatest ever player is Sir Bobby Charlton. He's got everything. He's got the games. So when I was a kid, I didn't think anyone would come close to his 7-5-9 games. Ryan Giggs did. That's why Giggs is number two. He's got the goals. He's got the individual awards. European player of the year. He's the best English player and he played for Manchester United. He won the World Cup for England England have only won the World Cup once he was a great ambassador for Manchester United he was an advocate for Sir Alex Ferguson when most Manchester United fans had given up on Sir Alex Ferguson so there's loads of backstory stuff that Sir Bobby Charlton had done I didn't actually know him I knew all the lads around him I knew most of the lads who we've spoken about I didn't know him I interviewed him very fleetingly once or twice I found him a bit difficult my opinion of him wasn't always high uh he strongly supported the glazers which i was uncomfortable with but i remember changing my opinion of him on a flight to lisbon in 92 eric canton our debut actually and bobby charlton got on this this plane was full of united fans eusebio's testimonial so eusebio was a contemporary of his and word went around the plane this is before budget airlines you had to get on scheduled planes bobby charlton's on the plane at the front and this is united's hardcore fan base not everyone loved him like george best does that say something about the psyche of the british people that you love so do you love some with someone with failings that you love someone with addictions that you love someone who damages themselves whereas bobby charlton led quite a a clean lifestyle he was a statesman that came out of a very working class pit village and he's a knight of the realm yeah the only one in the list actually well sir david beckham yeah yeah and then the only one in the top 10 then mid-flight the curtain went back and bobby charlton walked down the plane hi lads how you doing hi lads no phones and it's autographs i just saw him in a different light and there's another reason munich he was on the plane Ian the chapters in his autobiography which is a fantastic book just heartbreaking he saw his friends die he saw them lifeless next to him he was a hero of Manchester United's youth teams which became the Billsby Babes and then most of them died and he carried this guilt survivor's guilt why me?

42:40Andy Mitten: why do I get to experience this? After United won the European Cup in 68, he didn't celebrate because the weight of what he'd been through was too heavy. And as a kid in Manchester, it's so sad. As a kid in Manchester in the 80s, I'd not seen him play. So I did go to older people and it was Bobby Charlton soccer schools. But even that brought David Beckham to the club. True, yeah. And I think he was a great human and a great Manchester United ambassador right to the end i think old trafford's main stand is named after sir bobby charlton for compelling reasons and it's the cliche wherever you go in the world people would ask about bobby charlton united won the european cup in in moscow and you had a situation where nemanja vidich's dad who can speak no english is pestering his son please can i meet um Bobby Charlton so Nemanja introduces Bobby Charlton to his dad and his dad says you're Bobby Charlton I just love stuff like that you know he's grown up in communist Yugoslavia loving Bobby Charlton how has this happened?

43:55yeah it's ridiculous isn't it so there's so many strands to it I think we've got everything I think he's the symbol of Manchester United I think the fact that he survived the Munich air disaster and 10 years later was arguably the best player in the team that lifted the European Cup, having already won the World Cup with England. And then also having this hand as a president or as a board member to be able to enable the most glorious era in United's history and play a part in that too. I think he has to be the ultimate symbol of the club in that regard, doesn't he? Not just as a player but everything else he did and the stuff as a player is second all-time leading scorer second all-time appearance maker records that didn't necessarily feel like would ever be broken but maybe it's the number of games that are played now and the number of opportunities players have to score these goals and make these appearances which meant he was overtaken And the goals he scored, how did them nets survive?

45:03his shot was a rocket how did his feet survive in those boots with those balls the strength of the power of his shot yeah and you see the old footage and it's lovely even the haircut he would join in with training wouldn't he with the early 90s still knowing it they've got Bobby Charlton the haircut you know has sort of survived the test of time

45:22Andy Mitten: in popular culture but he'd train wouldn't he yeah he'd train with him and be like one of the best players like have massive thighs and basically as a result of those heavy balls and heavy boots there we go that's that's what i mean listen i can't speak i don't understand such a concept but astroturf but just this this whole idea you know that kind of i think is perhaps based on the modern need for sort of argument sake in social media but you know this person couldn't hack it the modern footballer is so much better than the you know old school footballer because of you know advances in nutrition and whatever fitness well no you've got literally a guy here who was overlapping in his 50s, 60s still joining in with training with United players that then dominated the era in the 90s and early 2000s and was you could see the quality of him that they speak of so yeah I think that notion that you can't have somebody from a bygone era challenging being the top of this kind of list is obviously ridiculous because they actually strive despite the conditions rather than have every you know every support that you could possibly wish for so yeah and obviously i just agree with you the fact that you've had that incredibly emotional turmoil of munich and the stories from um 68 i spoke to john aston a few years ago for the busby film that came out and just that idea that you you couldn't they celebrated but there was people that had been in munich that didn't say anything really you know charlton busby folks and and so that to actually go through that experience and then still have the career that he had is breathtaking and then still be a presence with that sort of magnanimous sort of i don't know refined statesman-like approach that he had uh in the early 90s and then you know through even to moscow being in moscow for example and being that character Obviously, this feels a bit churlish maybe to mention, but Platini's idea was to have a director of each club go up with the team and get a medal as a figurehead, so to speak.

47:34Chelsea had Peter Kenyon, a chief executive. United had Sir Bobby Charlton. And he took his medal off. It wasn't his to have in that moment, but he was at least a representation of United that spoke to the essence of football beyond what any of us can comprehend, really, given what he went through. I think as well with him, when you heard him talk about Manchester United, it just resonated. How should Manchester United play? The way he described the attacking style, the entertainment, the youth, the bravery. His vision, the way he talks about it and whether that comes from him or actually it comes from Matt Busby's vision of what the Busby Babes were or what the teams were that he built or that Ferguson continued.

48:15Ultimately, it's that, isn't it? We still want that. We still want to see that.

48:19Andy Mitten: We do. We do. He stood the test of time. We should also say that he would have a swig of whiskey before matches and the occasional cigarettes, which probably isn't conducive to being a top athlete. But he'd welcome, he saw the bigger picture, is what you're alluding to. So players would sign, like Creran, they'd come down to Manchester, and it would be Bobby and Lady Norma who'd take the new player out with his partner to a pool. Being like Urmson or Flickston, you know, not the really posh areas. And be absolutely petrified in case Crerand, who he had down as being a mad Glaswegian, started a fight.

48:58But he would take the responsibility on. And Paddy would be slightly in awe, even though he didn't like English people. He'd order like a sherry. And these ridiculous stories come out years later.

49:11Andy Mitten: And Paddy told me a lot about Bobby. Obviously, he'd been scarred, as you would be, by what happened. But when he was with his closest friends, his real close mates, there were laughs, there were smiles, there were pranks. So everyone's entitled to be different people with who they're comfortable with. But I think it's right that Sir Bobby Charlton is number one in the list of Manchester United's greatest ever players. And that is the place where we leave it. Andy, thank you so much for running us through it all. thank you for being my sidekick, Laurie, and praising some bits and questioning others.

49:51An unenviable task. He was robust to the challenge, wasn't he there? He was actually. He stood up. He gave his reasons. I enjoyed talking to you, lads. We found out new bits, bits that I didn't know about you guys, bits that I didn't know about these players, so it's been really educative and fascinating to learn these things. Yeah, fantastic, Andy. Thank you. And I hope you enjoyed it. If you've just joined us for this final video, go back and have a watch of the other ones. So we've done three episodes in total. Episode 1 was running through from 25 down to 11. Episode 2 was running through from 10 down to 6.

50:23And then obviously this is the final five today. But let's just have one final look back then at this list from 25 down to 1. Some incredible names on this list. As you'd expect, the greatest players, the top 25 in Manchester United's history. It kicks off with Bruno Fernandes as the only current player in there. There's players from the very start, pretty much, of Manchester United's story, like Billy Meredith through Bill Foulkes, through Paddy Crerand. More modern-day heroes like the man who scored the goal that won the treble, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, joined by several other of his teammates, which is one of the points of contention that we spoke to Andy about on a previous episode.

51:02Modern-day heroes, like I say, like David Beckham, Peter Smeichel. And then when you enter the top 10, what a list. Cristiano Ronaldo, Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Wayne Rooney, Dennis Law, And then the ones we've talked about today, Roy Keane, Brian Robson, number three, George Best, number two, Ryan Giggs, and number one, Sir Bobby Charlton. Incredible. I hope you enjoyed that. Thank you so much for your company, watching and listening along. And we'll see you on the next episode of Talk the Devils.

51:55The Athletic FC.

52:14$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details. Investing with Schwab is like spending a Saturday at a great farmer's market. You can fill your reusable tote with a bit of everything. Maybe you go for some free-range, self-directed investing, or perhaps you pick up a few farm-fresh trades while you peruse. You can even get help from a dedicated advisor. That's full-service wealth management. Mix, match, and change your mind whenever you want. Because at Schwab, you can invest your way.

52:51No matter your goals or appetite for investing, Schwab has everything you need, all in one place. Visit schwab.com to learn more. You know what I keep seeing online? People finishing college degrees way faster than you'd expect, like months instead of years. And it hit me. Most people get stuck because they need a faster way to make progress. That's what study.com is built for online college courses on your schedule at your own pace on your phone or your laptop with hundreds of courses that transfer to more than 2000 colleges and universities. So instead of putting life on hold, join the thousands of students earning their degrees faster and for less at just$95 a month.

53:30Go to study.com slash podcast to start earning college credit and get 10 % off your first month. That's study.com slash podcast.