Martinez criticises Man United investment after Madrid defeat

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1:44This is Talk The Devils, the Athletic show dedicated to Manchester United. It is late on Tuesday night. We are recording just after Manchester United have lost to Atletico in the Champions League and just after Lissandro Martinez's post-match interview which has questioned the club, the hierarchy, many, many things. There is so much to react to. The idea of this, it was supposed to be a quick reaction to the game and everything that went on but there's so much to get through, we'll try our best to do it over the course of the next half an hour. Andy and Laurie have joined us from a hotel room together in Madrid after the game.

2:19You were both there tonight. Let's just get straight into it. Lissandro Martinez, we'll talk about the game in a moment, but it feels like his comments are going to take all the headlines. If you've not seen it already, Lissandro Martinez has asked for more, saying he expected more from above in the summer, he expected more from the technical director, Jason Wilcox, as we understand it. He's questioned a lot of things. Andy, what's your immediate reaction to this? It's a grenade from him. It's a big story. It's headline news. I think you'll find a lot of Manchester United fans actually agreeing with him because a lot of fans are frustrated after a very poor start to the season.

3:02Another defeat tonight, and we'll examine that later on. But it's two wins in nine matches. But for a player to come out and be explicitly critical of the sporting director, it's pretty new, this. partly because Manchester United have never had sporting directors. I think it's hugely significant. If it's how he's feeling, he's entitled to that opinion. I think it presents a real problem for the club in how they deal with this. Of all the players to come out and say it, I'm not stunned that it is him. I don't know whether you'd agree or disagree with that, but I think there's been times where his position at the club, and I've hinted at it on this podcast, just before the summer I've said, if for example Lissandro Martinez was to go to Atletico Madrid now I didn't have any link that he was going to Atletico Madrid but I always felt that his future wasn't as certain as other players but for him to come out on live television to say that is hugely significant that will be the news which overshadows that will lead people to think that this is how people think in the dressing room the fact that he's gone public with it I had no inkling that he was thinking this.

4:15I don't know whether either of you did. And clearly feels very strongly about it. I think an element of it is the emotion after the match. But, you know, he's been really, really strong there. And I think a lot of Manchester United fans will agree because they're frustrated, because they feel that the summer recruitment wasn't as good as they had hoped. And I think that's become more apparent as the season has gone on. and you've seen the key positions like a striker or a left-back where Manchester United missed out on, they've actually become key areas that Manchester United have needed strengthening because Benjamin Sesko's out, because Luke Shaw's been missing matches as well.

4:55So it is even more pertinent what he is saying. Now, if I'm in charge of the club, I'm not sure what I'd be doing if I've got a player like that, speaking out publicly, someone who you're playing. So this presents a real problem and a real issue for Manchester United, how to deal with it. but I do think he's caught the mood of a lot of fans. Yeah, Laurie, that's the thing. You look in the WhatsApp groups, you look online, you look on social media, a lot of supporters, a lot of journalists as well, actually, a lot of former players even agreeing with what Lissandro Martinez had to say. It was interesting watching that interview on Amazon here in the UK because you had Wayne Rooney and Ashley Young then, pitch side, speaking about what he'd had to say.

5:35Obviously, Rooney, probably the last player to be this strong about the direction of the club when he questioned the transfer business way back in 2010. He said a couple of days later, actually, he apologised because he felt that that was overstepping. He said he was surprised in some ways that it was Lissandro Martinez who was the one who was saying this and that he'd gone too far. He said, actually, if they had brought more players in the summer, it could have been him who wasn't playing. It could have been defence that was one of the areas that would be strengthened more. but just to go through some of the answers in the interview because it's not just one answer he was asked about the result he said really really poor I have to control myself a lot but sometimes it's the reflection or the mirror of how is our club then he obviously then went on to question Jason Wilcox saying I expected more 100 % expected more investment in the squad you have to be honest as players you have to do more but it's also important that you make a strong squad to be ready for these kind of nights.

6:36He's then asked about Michael Carrick. He says he does his best. Every season is different. You can say what you did last season. The teams know how you play. The teams know every detail. And if you don't change next season, it's a big problem. You can change the manager. But what about other areas? I can't say more. Because tonight it's easy to say the coach. It's easy to say the players. But also we have to see other areas. And then he walked away from the interview then with Gabriel Clark. It's going to leave a big impact, this, isn't it? Huge ramifications I think because it just opens the door now for that scrutiny those questions to be asked of the whole structure really you mentioned upstairs he pointed I think didn't he and Ratcliffe was in the stadium I think for tonight wasn't he he was unusual perhaps for a European away but you know it does there's already been questions right about United's transfer recruitment but for having a player say this in this point in a manner after a game it's unprecedented really I'm getting sort of feedback from people that I'm you know in contact with that are in the game that are saying never seen anything like it both of our phones are just going it's one person who used to be employed by Manchester United has replied going the journalists have been served caviar for supper I don't think it'll taste like caviar for people at United will it because this is obviously you know just highly unusual but as Andy says I think that it's caught the mood of a lot of fans because of the way that it feels like Carrick perhaps hasn't got those options available to him.

8:06He was actually asked, wasn't he, on the eve of this game about that and he definitely towed the party line more so. But there was an element of which his own position was brought up and he sort of mentioned loving this kind of period because he finds out who's with you and who's attached to the club. And he mentioned players, but he also mentioned people at the club. And so there was a little element of questioning what is my status here. and so I think Martinez is kind of carrying that on but obviously in a much more explosive fashion I mean yeah what does he do I asked Carrick afterwards what do you do now with with Martinez because you know can he start him at Leeds like obviously it's maybe a separate thing it's not nothing to do with him and Martinez is it but it feels a strange thing for then a player who said such strong stuff about the club to then play the next game I mean would they have to take action in some way against him I don't know but he's a very individual kind of character, idiosyncratic kind of character.

9:06You know, he's a strong, robust voice around the training ground. He certainly voices his displeasure when he doesn't like things at Carrington. Some people, that rubs them up the wrong way. He even had a sort of stand-up row, didn't he, with Ruben Amarin when he was still head coach because he was at training, he felt that he wanted to, he was ready to play when he was coming back from an injury and they kind of came face-to-face and that was a pretty combustible moment. But actually, he was then started by Ameren, I think, in the final three games that season. He was made captain for some of them as well.

9:38So clearly, they had a sort of, I guess, an interesting relationship, maybe a mutual respect because, you know, that Latin temperament. But so obviously, Ameren is the last person that's mentioned Jason Wilcox in a post-match press conference. And this is sort of nine months on, isn't it? And here we are. That was at Leeds as well. That was at Leeds. So, you know, we're kind of, something's in the air when Ellen Road comes into view, maybe. But yeah, I think the ramifications we'll find out in the days and weeks to come. I mean, just one more point actually on Martinez particularly. You mentioned there that in the summer there was that sort of question mark about whether he would continue at the club because of his status.

10:15Did he want to leave? Maybe, who knows? Certainly, I think you look at next summer, his contract's actually up next summer. He's got a plus one option. Will United trigger that option, it seems. You know, these are all the questions now that come very much into view because he probably would have been a player that United could have sold to regenerate and get more funds and freshen up the squad. So maybe he's even admitting to that in a way. But yeah, there's so many different strands to pull out from here. There's so many side factors as well. I mean, Martinez's wage is just over half some of the lads he's playing with.

10:50I don't think he's delighted about that. I think had he played more, he would have been in a much stronger position to renegotiate a new contract. He is outspoken, for better or for worse. I think tonight being outspoken will find a lot of favour with a lot of supporters because it's a player coming out and speaking like this. What happened with Ruben Amorim? I think Jason Wilcox was actually the most supportive person of Ruben Amorim. And even when other senior people at Manchester United were not. and I think Ruben Amarin talked himself out of a job with those really two strong public press conferences which he did.

11:26He did feel that he was getting sort of lobbied or pressured to change system when he'd come in with that system so the questions around you know. It's a Wolves game wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. It's a Wolves game. Yeah and he sort of did it for Bournemouth at home and then the Wolves game was the big one where it kind of changed everything really and that was it was going that way and that's why people will then question I think, does Wilcox have to come out and say something now? I mean, maybe, because basically you've got this situation where Michael Carrick is under pressure, his job is potentially on the line.

11:59Jason Wilcox is one of those people that would have to be involved in potentially sourcing a replacement. What does this do for his status within all that? Obviously, I think it's, you know, Sir Jim Ratcliffe has a big say on that as well. Omar Barada involved as chief executive as well. So you've got different voices, but certainly the kind of, I suppose, the attention on Wilcox is there because, and certainly from a player's point of view, he's at training a lot. He sees the sessions. And doesn't speak. So does he come out and say something? There we go. Because he'll have his point of view and that's for the fans to decide.

12:32And I'm sure the club wouldn't like it to be public like this, but it's become such a huge story now. And when I touched on the side aspects there, if you're reading or hearing that and you're Carlos Baleba or you're Juri Tielemans, what are you supposed to think? Because are you thinking that, oh, he's not having me either. Am I a disappointment if you're Andre Santos? All three of them started tonight, didn't they? Yeah, and don't think they were that bad. I thought they were all good. Yeah, among the better players who played tonight. It's a mess, this Ian.

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15:08Yuri Tielemans was asked about the comments on an interview with Amazon just after the interview had taken place with Lissandro Martinez. And his response was, no comment. He was then given a follow-up and asked again. Yeah, but you picked something out there because fans will support what Lissandro Martinez has said. We've heard that already. We've seen that already. But what will the reaction be in the dressing room? because there'll be some who I'm sure agree with Martinez. I mean, we've heard comments at the start of this season from players, Harry Maguire, probably the most notable, suggesting that the team needed more players in pre-season.

15:51I think Luke Shaw maybe as well. I seem to remember after one of the games at the start of the season was suggested that there would be more players coming in. I think I spoke to him after Hull and that was the general theme from him. So, you know, undoubtedly we've seen other members of the dressing room feel like the team needed more. But for this to be the moment, to say it in the way that he did, not everyone's going to agree with him, are they? No, they're not. And Young on Amazon both suggested that it could fracture the dressing room. I mean, I think Young said it could rip it apart even.

16:26And these are players who've had experience of being in dressing rooms who have had these sort of conversations before. So did he just bin off Lissandro Martinez? Did he just ostracise him? Did he fine him? Against a backdrop of a lot of fans actually agreeing with what he said, it is a complete mess. And I think when you're losing football matches, fractures are always going to come because you're losing matches. It's just Manchester United this season has been hugely disappointing. So there's always going to be a point where someone came out and said something and it's Martinez and he said what he said and there'll be, what's it, caviar someone said to you?

17:11Yeah. Yeah. Someone just said to me, a proper unholy mess this is. so it's a mess I mean there obviously are fair questions to ask of the hierarchy right because we're now at a stage where we're discussing Michael Carrick's position so that would be so you've had Erickson Haag backing then sacking, you've had Ruben Amarin as a big hire sacked after well 18 months and now Michael Carrick brought in on an interim basis, did really well, went with him and now we're already at this stage now and now obviously he would absolutely have to look at if he's done everything he can or the coaching team around as well on obviously the players.

17:52But there comes a point where you have to ask the question to the people making the decisions. Of course you do. Of course you do. Because they'll be praised if things are going right. The players are part of this. The managers are part of it. His assistants are part of it. The people above him are part of it. All these people who've had an input into football decisions deserve to be questioned. When things are not going right and also when things are going right, they will be praised. If they've just won the first 10 games, you and I will be doing pieces on the genius of whatever line we go for, whether it's a coach or a player, because that's how our jobs work.

18:31And fans want to know more details and they want to know more details. Now they want to know what is going on, what leads Lissandro Martinez to come out and say something as strong as that. It is just very public that all is not well. Now, is it all not well only with Lissandro Martinez, or is it a bigger issue? Is this an individual thing where the rest of the dressing room goes, do one, you're talking for yourself here, and that's his own personal opinion, or is that a mainstream opinion? I've not had an inkling of a deeply troubled dressing room until this point, and there have been times, and I've said it in this podcast in recent years, I think it's always a complex dressing room because if you're not playing, you're annoyed.

19:14There's always issues, there's egos. I think it's been relatively harmonious, but maybe now he's showing that it isn't. Laurie, what do you think the consequence is going to be for this? Because like you've just been alluding to there, obviously it'll be very interesting to see over the next couple of days how the club react, how the players react. I mean, Michael Carrick dodged questions on what Lissandro Martinez had to say after the game as well, saying he'd not seen the interview and it wasn't the right moment to comment on it, that emotions were running high after the game. But obviously he'll be asked again about it when he holds his press conference ahead of Leeds.

19:48And I wonder as well, do you think there's even a chance that the club takes some sort of action against Martinez for what he's had to say? Because like Andy was alluding to before, this is really complicated because you've got a vast swathe of opinion behind him, even though, in essence, he's speaking out against the club. This just sums up modern Manchester United, doesn't it? Yeah, players enter into contracts and they should not bring the club into disrepute, should we say, and maybe there's a question around that. But if he ultimately wants to leave at the end of the season when his contract's up, maybe that's not a bad thing.

20:29I'm just getting messages back from people now that are sort of saying can he really play against Leeds for example that's the immediate point would they suspend him would they fine him you know these are kind of questions that you have now and I'm not sort of saying that's what Did he really play against Tottenham that should be a good question Well this is it but you could also question having you know he's kind of saying this after letting Dominic Solanke bully him twice and scoring once and then also you know for the goal today I was sort of re-watching it tonight, the first goal. He kind of tries to leap up, doesn't he, and get touch tight in midfield for that first pass.

21:02And he loses his man and then that's where they get the goal from. But equally, I would always defend a player's right to voice their opinions. I guess it's just in this situation, this is no player I can think of, not in the dressing room at United now, would say anything like this. I mean, Roy Keane talked about the prawn sandwich brigade back in 2000, was it 2001? And he was right. And he was right. And he had massive substance at that point as well. He won the treble, you know. So it's a bit different thing. Wayne Rooney. And that was about the fans as well. It wasn't really, you know, about the club.

21:38So, yeah, Rooney, it's interesting that Rooney was the one, you know, with Amazon tonight. Rooney's the closest. Yeah, passing comment on this. And he apologised. Wait, which company was he with tonight? so are you saying there's anything joined up between Amazon Prime cameras recording a documentary about Manchester United I don't know but you might have pointed that out I don't know we're being mischievous there aren't we but it's a weird coincidence I don't think so if I'm being honest I don't think someone's sat there going it's going to be quite the episode well I think there's enough stuff going on this season to have content but yeah I think it does there'll be you know for Jason Wilcox to be kind of outed in this way so specifically, they'll have to have a big meeting, won't they?

22:22They'll have to, Will Martinez have to come out and kind of clarify things, apologise possibly, because how do you, if he doesn't play against Leeds, when would you then bring him back if there's nothing else said at this point? It's, yeah, I think that's a really interesting aspect to all of this. Yeah. Yeah, we're just getting sight of a post from Ahmad as well on Snapchat, a picture from tonight and the caption reads, F-ing disgrace. I have no words. I don't know whether he's referring to the interview from Sanjo. I don't know if he's referring to the performance tonight, the decision for the red card maybe, which obviously Michael Carrick was really strong about and a lot of fans were really disappointed.

23:04And as well, watching the game, it certainly felt very harsh to send off Lenny Uro. But anyway, let's talk about the game. We'll have another podcast ahead of Leeds that will come your way on Thursday. But we wanted to do an immediate reaction to the result tonight with it being such a big game and obviously now with these comments as well. We'll find out more in the coming days between now and Thursday. Obviously, keep your eyes on The Athletic for the very latest on the fallout from tonight and the interview from Lisandro Martinez as well.

23:59We'll be right back. Get that more for your money feeling only on Metro by T-Mobile. Bring your number and activate$40 period plan. $450 based on device discount waived activation fee. Not available if with Metro or T-Mobile in the past 180 days. With the Discover Cash Back Card, it's payback time when you earn cash back on everyday purchases. Activate and earn 5 % cash back at different categories each quarter on up to$1 ,500 in purchases. That's 5 % cash back at different places each quarter, like grocery stores, on gas, and at restaurants. It pays to Discover. Terms apply. See discover.com slash 5 for details.

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25:58Let's talk about the match. I mean, I did think, despite the defeat, we were actually going to be sat here, Laurie, talking about some signs of life, some sense of improvement. Because if it wasn't for a whole host of missed chances, and maybe that in itself is a story and a very bad start, it might have actually been a really positive night. Well, yeah, obviously they needed to have scored those chances, right? there's a lot of ifs, buts and maybes in there obviously and that in a way is a familiar thing as well which adds to the frustration I mean that's where we're at isn't it we're kind of in that mode of looking for hope or signs of encouragement shall we say I mean it felt pretty desolate after 49 seconds was it you know here we are in the Metropolitano there's three and a half thousand United fans that have travelled and they're singing up in the rafters and then yeah 1-0 down within a minute.

26:54Yeah, just really bad for United to start that way. And that's the, again, starting badly against Spurs. We said they need to start quickly against Spurs. And here again, keep it tight. Don't give Atletico the advantage because that's exactly what they want. And then they can dictate the terms in which they engage on. But they did respond pretty well, United. I mean, it's perhaps worth saying that a couple of big selections for Michael Carrick, Bruno Fernandes on the right and Aidan Heaven at left back, his Champions League debut. I thought he did pretty well overall, Aidan Heaven. Second half, a couple of good passes got forward well.

27:30Bruno Fernandes looked tired to me. I know he had that incredible shot against the bar. Also that chance from Tielemans through ball that just went wide. But I wasn't surprised that he got substituted when it went to 2-0. I wondered if he was already going to be the substitute because they were ready to come on before the second goal after the red card. but yeah obviously at that point Carrick's thinking come off I'll save you for Sunday but yeah because I did ask Carrick about Bruno before the game whether he was carrying an injury still or not and he kind of clarified that yeah he's had a bit of something but he's okay now and everyone plays with something he played with injuries kind of 80 % of the time but it does feel that doesn't look right to me Bruno but I did think that overall United responded well and particularly Tielemans with those passes through to Mbumo a couple of times.

28:19They were kind of winning the ball quite well higher up. I thought Belieber and Santos were quite good at sensing the danger. And Telemans wasn't great off the ball, but I think when he got on the ball, he was actually doing damage, which is kind of what you want in that role, right? Put the pass through when it matters. And Oblak's a good goalkeeper, made some good saves. Rashford, I thought his chance was really good for Martinez. That was a great pass. And we could see it clearly that Rashford really went for that run. Martinez acted in the moment, didn't waste any time, went for it, creativity, bravery on the ball.

28:52He probably should have done better with the shot. So, yeah, United did have lots of chances, not least even that Cunha one at the very end, to make it 2-1 maybe, at least bring a bit of consolation. That was Mbouma winning the ball high up. It was a bad pass. I agree with you, Ian. I sort of felt that it was probably one of United's better performances this season, particularly given the circumstances, given the stadium, given the opposition. but again we're talking about frustrations of not taking chances and it then just means that the questions around Carrick only continue. Yeah, it's the familiarity of the failing though still, isn't it?

29:25Like I say, being cut open too easily for the first goal, I guess creating the chances is a good thing. You listed them there, there was plenty of them but to not take any and when you're away at Atletico in the Champions League there needs to be a bit more cutting edge, there needs to be a bit more ruthlessness and we want to be seeing Manchester United winning games and us picking out positives, not trying to find crumbs of comfort or little signs that there is a bit of life still in this team. But the intensity was better, Andy. The midfield was very different and Carlos Baleba and Andres Santos being paired there was definitely different and obviously Tielemans being used in that number 10 role.

30:09So maybe there is a bit of a framework there moving forward that Michael Carrick can use. But I mean, it's hard to do these sometimes after the game because your emotions are very raw. A lot's been said and a lot's happened even after the match. So you're kind of a bit scrambled even to sum up how you're feeling because of all the things that are being said and the different angles and so on. But you'd hope that there's something in there to build on at least, even though it is another disappointing night overall. Okay, so it wasn't as bad as Saturday, but then putting pins into my eyes wouldn't be as bad as Saturday because that was very, very bad, especially in the first half.

30:49A little look at Atletico, okay? So as I touched on in the last podcast, I suspected Alvarez might play. He doesn't play, but obviously one of the world's best strikers comes in against Manchester United. I said Barrios, Atletico's best player, but he's been out injured. Obviously comes back, absolutely brilliant. Alex Baena, absolutely brilliant. They were clear favourites tonight. I'm gutted now because I've seen my team lose. I've seen them play five times competitively against Atletico Madrid since 91. I've not seen one victory. I feel a bit of a phony for trying to pick out positives when your team have just been beaten 2-0.

31:27But I think we've got to accurately portray what we've just seen. They go ahead and the mood just drops. I think the travelling fans who Laurie mentioned have had a brilliant time in Madrid. It's a brilliant city. The setting was amazing. The sun was going down. It's a wonderful stadium. Obviously, we'll be back for the Champions League final in May. So if you didn't get a chance to come tonight, you can come again in May. It's in June. In June, even. Just because you said it twice. But United did respond. They did respond. And I think there were four one-on-ones. You've got to put the chances away.

32:03Brian and Bumo came close Marcus Rashford but even when United had the best moments they still look susceptible to an attack and when the red card came and I thought it was a harsh red card you're 1-0 down with 10 men away to one of the best teams in Europe I watched Atletico Madrid last year in the quarters and the semi-finals of the Champions League they are a proven winning machine but at times Manchester United were the better side tonight and not just for two minutes. Bruno, I didn't think he was in the game much, especially in the first half, but he was more involved in the second half. Lovely effort against the crossbar.

32:41I didn't think Marcus Rashford was in the game much, apart from that one chance in the first half. He switched sides, didn't he, Marcus, halfway through the first half. Tielemans, I didn't think. And then they pull out these amazing passes. Even Lissandro Martinez did a fantastic pass. I think if you're going to pick out more positives, Santos and Balaba, there might be something there. We might be scraping talking like this, but there was a little bit of control there. I thought that Aidan Evan recovered and did better. But we're saying this after every game, Ian. We're picking out on little bits on Saturday.

33:15You know, Lenny Yoro did really well. That's the problem, isn't it? It's the problem. I said it years ago. It was a Liverpool fan said to me, are you still at the stage where Joel Cole had a good game? And I went, what do you mean? And it's like, we're that bad. So you're just picking out one little bit where one of your players has done well. And that's what they were doing. And then they came good again under Jurgen Klopp. So you're picking out the positives, the fragments. United are not scoring. United need a goal scorer. The defence was much changed. I wasn't watching it through my fingers like I was with the Tottenham-Oxburgh game on Saturday.

33:54That's part of me watching. Go on, United. Just nick an equaliser here. It's coming. minutes coming, there was some good football, weren't there? Yeah, it was usually when they won the ball back and kind of acted quite quickly and I thought the changes by Carrick before the red card were with a view to getting technical players around the box that could hold onto the ball and maintain that pressure So Bruno moved into his normal role then? Yeah, and Mount came on Zerks came on, Ahmad came on I mean, Kunja not playing at all until the latter stages, perhaps interesting maybe again, it's a sort of fitness thing but yeah I didn't think Atletico were that good.

34:31I mean, they certainly, towards the end of the first half, they really strangled United, I felt. And they can really attack quickly when they want. But there was opportunities in between the lines for United. And I thought they were doing that quite well, certainly in the first half and maybe for a period in the second. But ultimately, they're pretty streetwise, aren't they? Atletico, Jonathan David bought that red card. I mean, United got fortunate. You know his good mates with Leni Oro. Oh, really? We were at Lille together. Oh, right. They're close mates. So cheers for that one, pal. Yeah, nice one.

35:03I mean, he went down under very minimal contacts. And I mean, the VAR shouldn't be getting involved in there at all. But then the VAR also got involved on the goal that Cardozo, was it, scored? I've got your name wrong there. Johnny Cardozo, born in New Jersey, raised in Brazil. Actually? Yeah, really. Wow. Yeah, American international. Moved to Brazil when he was about three months old. What a name and what a story. I know. I know. I can only dream. and another good player and I'm just writing down the players who were decent. Simeone was raging throughout. I don't know if you saw that on television.

35:33He always is. Jumping around, being Simeone. Respect to the mother of Koke who passed away this morning and that gave Atletico more motivation, I think. You know, the fans were singing for Koke. He's the main man at the club after Simeone. They had the possession. United had the chances. Okay, let's leave it there then for the moment. There's still plenty to talk about, but the connection between Manchester and Madrid is not fantastic. So we'll leave it there on Talk of the Devils. We are back, like I said before, on Thursday to preview the match at Ellen Road against Leeds. We'll also talk more about Lissandro Martinez's comments and the fallout from that, of course, as well.

36:15Keep your eyes on The Athletic between now and then for the very latest on all of this. But for the moment, thank you for your company. Thanks for all your emails as well. we'll work some of those in to Thursday's episode as we react to what's happened tonight there's never a quiet moment is there with Manchester United and that is certainly the case right now but thank you for your company thanks for listening and watching and we'll see you on the next one cheers to Andy and Laurie if they can still hear me in Madrid take care, bye bye

37:05The Athletic FC.

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