Who shone in Man United's Ipswich win?

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1:50Amelio slits. And Cunha's on his way. And Fernandes is up ahead of him. It's Bruno Fernandes. with pies to equalise for Manchester United. Kunio's going through the middle now. He's been caught up. Bruno Fernandes, calmness itself. It's come down to Kobi Maynouk. And to Brian Mbobo. And to Bruno Fernandes. Hat-trick in front of the Streatham. Right now, he's the prince of this place.

2:34This is Talk The Devils, the athletic show dedicated to Manchester United. Coming up today, we react to Manchester United hitting Ipswich for five at Old Trafford. A brilliant win in the end on Sunday. We'll get into all the details of that. We'll hear from Harry Maguire during the show as well. And with just less than 48 hours left to the closing of the transfer window, will have the very latest and whether Manchester United will be adding anyone in in what's left of this window. We've got Laurie, Carl and Andy with us. How are we all doing? Laurie, you were there yesterday. Excuse me. My voice is going.

3:07Were you shouting from the terraces, Ian? I mean, you were there as well, but were you joining in with the chance, even though you were working? No, no, I wasn't. I was being ultra professional as always, but it was quite a day in the end, wasn't it? It was a good day in the end, yes. It felt at times in the first half, certainly when that first goal went in for Ipswich, that it might not be a good day. Can United really lose to two promoted sides in the opening games of the season? But I think that actually then made the comeback all that bit better, the result all that bit better because it had a bit of adversity to it.

3:39And ultimately, it was a day where you saw Bruno Fernandes remind people of his enduring qualities. I mean, while some of the stuff he was doing towards the end of the game, he was having so much fun and could have scored from the halfway line again as the rain was pouring down. you had Kobi Maynou on his first start in three months and he was brilliant you know kind of felt like he had never you know he'd been playing every week really and he was just totally into his rhythm some of the stuff he was doing really shows what an elevation he can bring to United's game and then Marcus Rashford I thought he was another person to sort of single out because it was his first game at Old Trafford in 20 months we thought it was done with him no it's not done and it feels like actually there's a bit of a reset that's gone on there it felt surreal to watch him back in a red shirt with that number nine running down the wing but he did a lot of stuff that you're thinking okay keep doing that and this could actually be quite a positive outcome really from what was expected to be a parting so yeah ultimately a good day for United five goals um you're going to get the stat out aren't you five goals for the first time since another opening day at Old Trafford um but yeah I think a lot of people went home happy.

4:48Yeah, they did. First time in five years that Manchester United had scored five in any competition, actually. It was the opening match of the season against Leeds. Bruno Fernandes also got a hat-trick on that occasion. Got a better one than that, though. 33 shots they had against Ipswich, and that is the most shots that they've had since October 2016. So pretty much 10 years, 372 games ago. And the XG, I think, Andy, as well, was the sixth highest ever recorded since they started taking records on these things. I mean, they certainly kicked into gear in that second half and got over the wobbles in the first half pretty emphatically.

5:22It was a terrific second half performance and I was a little bit worried in the first half. I think I put it in our little group. I think Ipswich might do well this year. I think that they are a totally different proposition. They spent a lot of money, as I said, on the last podcast, but they conceded five. Manchester United conceded two, but it was just what United needed. I think Laurie's quite right to pick out the players that he did. Bruno's spectacular, his third hat-trick for Manchester United, seven goals. Cobby as well. I thought Lissandro Martinez was having a good game until that era towards the end, and I'm sure we'll go into more detail about the players.

5:58But it was essential that United got a win after that defeat last week at Hull, because these weeks are really long when you don't have a game and it was a long week last week and when it switch went ahead i thought oh no i didn't have full confidence if i'm honest no i still feel that united need to find the groove and maybe at christmas we make a first judgment that's what i'll do how good is my michael carrick's manchester united in a season where the demands are much more stronger and i also felt a little bit cheated after Hull because all that belief pre-season I felt it was genuine so I felt cheated then to lose that game but I feel more sort of vindicated with the performance against Ipswich Town and I think it was um I thought it was terrific um in the second half but still loads of room for improvement yeah definitely let's do the obvious first Carl I mean Bruno Fernandes United put a tweet out which I thought was brilliant where they said something like um announcing that the PFA footballer of the year, he's at it again.

7:04Just amazing. I mean, from the first goal, I thought Matthias Cuny had undercooked the free ball to him. I was thinking, how long is Bruno going to run with this? And then he unleashes an absolutely ridiculous left-footed strike, which smashed its way past the keeper, Sherpen. It was just absolutely brilliant. The penalty, you can see how much that meant to him after missing a couple in pre-season. Maybe that was part of it. The keeper was trying his best to put him off as well. And then obviously adds a hat-trick as well. He's just fantastic. I don't know what's left to say about him in some ways.

7:35It was just the doctor order. It's absolutely what we needed. I know there was a lot of conversation after the defeat against Hull. The Bruno debate, the constant one after a negative performance, which is, are Manchester United, could Manchester United possibly be better off without Bruno Fernandes? And then he goes off and he does that, which is what great football players do. They do their talking on the field. They answer their critics on the field, and they put up big performances and do things that very few football players can do. And I was totally in agreement with you there on that counter-attack.

8:05I mean, one, I was really surprised at how quickly United got the shot away after winning the ball back. And I think you're going to see this across the Premier League this season. There's going to be quite a few times because so many more teams are defending man-to-man where the difference between you lose the ball and then five, six seconds later, someone's conceded. Kunja's pass was a bit wonky to me. and then Bruno Fernandes who is not the most explosive dribbler. I was worried he would get caught up but then Bruno Fernandes, what he does. He did mention when he got his PFA award. No, his FWA award, I should say because he's won so many over the last 12 months.

8:42Hard to keep up, mate, innit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was asked, what's the next stage? Where do you want to take your game next? And he did mention he wanted to get more goals. So a hat-trick is nice and I did joke when he was up for the penalty that he's deliberately shanked a few penalties during pre-season to throw some goalkeepers off the scent. But yeah, it just felt really good. Towards the end, he's also doing those things that when Bruno is really in the flow and he starts hitting some very extravagant passes and he's really contorting his hips and wrapping his foot around the ball and hitting these big diagonals, he's like, yep, yep, I can see Bruno Fernandes is enjoying it, which means his teammates are enjoying it, which means everyone at Old Trafford and everyone watching at home can enjoy it too.

9:23So yeah, a positive Bruno performance tends to mean a positive Manchester United performance. Yeah, the keeper as well, Laurie, Kel Sherpen for Ipswich. How big did he look when that penalty was about to be taken? He's the tallest player ever in the Premier League, six foot nine, which is 2.06 metres for anyone who uses that. Just a couple of inches taller than me then. Yeah, exactly. He looked like he was basically the same height as the crossbar. He stood up and his hair was brushing the crossbar. So fair play, and he stood over to his right, Bruno's left as he's looking at him, really psyching him out.

9:56And Bruno, it gives him a little look, doesn't he, after he scored to go, yeah, okay. I see what you're trying there. I mean, listen, maybe it was Yuri Tielemann sort of mirroring exactly what Bruno Fernandes did. That was odd, wasn't it? And his peripheral vision that threw him off. Yeah, apparently it's the time he's run into the box, but it does feel a bit excessive to just wait and kind of go when you think it's the right moment. So he sort of staggers and then jumps at the exact moment that Bruno does so he doesn't go into the box. It's crazy though, isn't it? So has he measured out the exact run-up the same as Bruno as well then?

10:25I don't know. How deep does this go? This feels like an athletic deep dive needs to be done. 5 ,000 words on the five steps that Uri Tielemans took before Bruno took his penalty. Apparently he did it at Aston Villa as well, my colleague Jacob Tamswell saying. So let's see how this develops. I mean, maybe that's why Bruno missed those ones in pre-season. Was Tielemans doing it or not? We need to look back and was even on the pitch. Not for the penalty shootout, I imagine. Yeah, good point. He's there on the halfway line just trying to do it. But you could see, couldn't you, from Bruno... I agree.

10:53I think Bruno missing those two penalties in pre-season, people such as myself saying, oh, okay, that's an interesting development. I think he thought he savoured it, didn't he? It was a key moment in the game, got to score that penalty. And then I think then the shackles really came off. I mean, his pass from Buma was an absolute joke, as we've said. I even thought that his hat-trick goal was the one from close range, right? And he was sort of doing that quite a bit in the second half, getting beyond Cunha, who obviously started as the kind of, I guess, centre forward. But there was a lot of rotation there, even him coming over to the left and Rashford going up top a little bit in sort of fluid moments.

11:30But I thought Bruno took the initiative to get into those areas where you can score those sort of tappings. And he does, I mean, to Karl's point, if he's got that in his mind to kind of score a few goals and, you know, United have got Sesko sort of on the bench at the moment, you know, he's coming back to full fitness and there's, you know, well, there is talk of a striker, it depends on what Joshua Zerkesy does. but if Bruno's got that instinct to get in those dangerous areas, then that should give United that extra impetus and unsettled defences. I can't believe that the Cunha slander, though, his pass was perfect, no?

12:01Like, I was in the press box thinking, oh, he's gone early, but he's timed it perfectly. And then, okay, appreciate he still needs a great finish for Bruno. This is probably a stadium angle versus TV angle. But in the moment, I was like, ooh, hang on. Too early? I thought I did it too early. Where were you stood? Just by the dugouts. It just looked to me like he'd undercooked it a little bit because it was curling back towards Bruno and then you're asking him to run on. He couldn't have took any more touches than he did. He dealt with the entire thing perfectly, Fernandes. If he took another touch, I think he might have even been caught by Lugic.

12:32Maybe Cunha knows that though. Maybe Cunha knows. He just wants to get one touch to set himself and then the other to blast it past the game. The most important thing is Bruno Fernandes stuck it in the back of the net so it doesn't matter what the pass was like, does it? In the end, it was perfect because it was an assist and it led to a goal. It was a great atmosphere. The roar from that as well. counter-attack, you know, boom. It felt good at all. It was really needed. I think. It was really needed. I think United going in at halftime at 1-1 would have changed that team talk. Yeah. It prevents things from sagging and you're having a difficult 10-15 minutes to start the second half when it's still 1-0.

13:09And you could just see, you know, it just went through the gears in the second half and Ipswich, for the most part, didn't really have a response. No, they were too open as the game went on, I think, to try and stop United. They were just that good. Right, we need to do Aston's work because he's got in touch an email. Don't worry, Aston, we're going to do it anyway. But he says, Bruno will get all the plaudits and rightly so. But Kobe Mainu was outstanding and surprisingly went under the radar from the media clips I could find on the way home. I'd love to know how many interceptions or tackles he made.

13:38I don't know if any of us have got the exact data for that. But Andy, he was back to his very best, Kobe, wasn't he? Yeah, because we're not seeing a lot of him. because for some reason he wasn't selected in the World Cup and he came back in. I thought he was fantastic. I think only Bruno Fernandes was better than him and Bruno gets the hat-trick, so he gets the headlines. It's the stuff that Kobe does. He draws tackles from people. He takes players out of the games and then he can be really effective moving forward. There was a great ball towards Kunya, which you touched on, which won the penalty, which saw Manchester United's third and sounded like he was deservedly being serenaded in song by the Stratford end.

14:22Love really hurts without you for Cobby Mainu. It's great if you think of where Cobby was a year ago when Ruben Amarim simply was not having him and Cobby Mainu not unreasonably said, I want to leave because I want to play football. I don't think that was a slight against him for doing that. He's a footballer he wanted to play. To now and that performance yesterday, especially because I don't think Juri Tielemans had a particularly good game. Andre Santos, we've not really seen him yet. So it was really reassuring to see Kobe so effective. And I'll be really keen to see how he plays with Carlos Baleba.

15:03That's something to look forward to. So if you've got Kobe and you've got Bruno, you've got two parts there of the three midfielders. And we know they're going to be interchanged. we know there's going to be a lot of matches but great and the backstory is great he's a Manchester lad he's a United fan all that is just the the icing on the cake for Cobby and his age profile is perfect as well I'm really happy with the age profile of Manchester United there's a lot of young players with a couple of very experienced players and they're probably going to be changed in the next couple of years but a really really good day for for Cobby to lift him after what I think was a difficult summer for him going to America and not featuring at all.

15:45Yeah, it's been an up and down 12 months. There's no question about that. I mean, Laurie, you caught up with Harry Maguire after the game and this is what he had to say about Kobi Manu. Yeah, I thought he was brilliant today, Bobby. I think he hasn't played for I don't know how long, not really got many minutes on pre-season and things like that. It was magnificent. He's got a great shift and I think his work without the ball has improved so much since Michael's been in and that's probably credit to Michael and his staff but I think without the ball now he's becoming a real monster in there and I think he wins a lot of second ball, he wins a lot of duels you wouldn't want to play against him in there and that's the biggest compliment I can give to him from playing and watching him behind he's so young, if we want him to play for this club for another 10 years, I think there's going to be times where he's going to go through a patch like I just spoke about with Rashi and myself but that's part and parcel, I think he's he's really level-headed, he's really composed, he has great belief in his ability.

16:44He's going to be a magnificent bloke at his club for many, many years. Yeah, high praise from Harry Laurie, no question. Two things stood out to me. Obviously, the sort of tempo setting that he did on the ball was obviously a standout feature of his game, but it was interesting that Maguire there picks out the jewels and the fact that he feels he's made a real step up in the physical intensity that he can have in that position. Yeah, I thought that too. And he volunteered that he wasn't, you know, a leading question or anything like that. And I suppose that is a little bit of a response to Aston.

17:15You don't ask leading questions, do you? The actual question, I think, was a word on Kobi Mainu, question mark. So it was more than a word. You can ask questions then. I think that show, exactly. Here's a name, talk about him, please. Well, Maguire was actually in a really good mood. I mean, I guess you'd expect that. We'd kind of laughed about his goal not being his goal and how, you know, please don't give it to me, VAR. You know, actually, it was definitely an own goal, to obviously allow this accidental handball rule. Yeah, yeah. Very. Yeah. Because it was just handball, wasn't it? I mean, below all the rules.

17:45Yeah, probably on reflection. He just handled the ball, but anyway. On reflection, yeah. Listen, I've seen moves like that in volleyball. But anyway, the fact that he actually pushed, he kind of pushed Bruno aside for that, didn't he? And then said, no, I'm having this. And it worked. And it was a crucial goal to put United ahead. Anyway, Kobi Meynu, the word was from him, you know, this monster. I think that probably was the word that he kind of came out with, which was interesting in terms of his off-the-ball work. He gave credit to Michael Carrick. And to Aston's point, Manu made two. He won two out of three tackles.

18:14Only Brandon Bumo equaled that, to be fair, as a ratio. And he also had two interceptions in the game, and only Harry Maguire had more with three. So it's interesting, right? Because I think on the ball is what is his special ingredient, right? His close control, his ability to wriggle out of tight spaces. And then his passing, actually. There was one to Tielemans in the first half where Tielemans goes down looking for a penalty. The one in the second half where Kunja goes down, gets a penalty. So wriggling out of tight space and pinging those passes. I think the passing is coming on. But for Maguire to pick out the defensive side of his game, the off-the-ball work really speaks to what he's seen behind the scenes.

18:48He knows what he's looking at there, Maguire, and you could feel the warmth in his voice and the excitement at talking about Maynard. So, yeah, I think it was a... And for the fact, like I say, the fact that he didn't play at the World Cup at all, he didn't play in pre-season really he came on for the second half or during the second half at Hull for him to start the game like that and have that kind of commitment and you could see him in the second half he was sort of talking to Carrick I think he kind of said my time's up here in this game but it was 80 minutes on the clock right so he's put a great shift in and obviously made a difference to United so hopefully that's the start of many performances like that to come this season Yeah just to add to the stats fans of FPL will know what a DEFCON is defensive contribution he made the most on the pitch during the game and while we're on it, congratulations to Rax Mee who is top of our Talk of the Devils mini-league in FPL which Kyle set up, so early days but the early pace setter.

19:38I mean, Manu, Kyle, just looking at the overall picture for him we've talked a lot throughout pre-season about what the midfield pairing is going to be. I can't see a Manchester United first-choice midfield moving forward without him now. I mean, that was a great performance. he's won nine out of his 11 defensive duels and Andy said he draws fouls it's not just the fact that he's making tackles it's also the fact that when he has the ball and opposition players are going for him they cannot get the ball off him because he's gotten so good at using his upper body Steve McLaren once said he's as strong as an ox and I think we've seen particularly since the trip to Stanford Bridge towards the end of last season he's taking his game to another level he's being a lot more decisive a lot more aggressive, a lot more efficient in both his actions, on and off the ball.

20:26I mean, the greatest dribble and assist that nearly was last season, where he just weaved past loads of players against Brentford, started with him just strong-arming a Brentford player. And he's getting really, really good. If you are side-on with Mane and you're trying to get the ball back, God bless. He hit a long pass around the quarter-hour mark towards Rashford as well, and that's the sort of thing that he didn't really do when he was playing on the Ruben Amren, and I think that was a demerit to him in Ruben Amarin's eyes. There's loads of questions as to why Thomas Tuchel didn't trust him and I went back to a quote from Anthony Barry, Tuchel's assistant manager, and it was about how England's approach at the World Cup was about accelerating through the middle third.

21:08The middle 24 yards was this concept they constantly talked about in England and it was all about wide rotations, your fullback, your central midfielder and your winger ahead and loads of quick triangles to get out of that middle as soon as possible and play at a pace that other national teams couldn't handle. And apparently this might have been a reason as to why Maynou didn't get the nod at the World Cup. And then you look at how he played against Ipswich and the pass he hits for Kunia, that's accelerating out that middle third, getting the ball from point A to point B. And the pass takes three players out.

21:38It's perfectly weighted for what Kunia wants to do, which is either have a shot or put the defender in a horrible pick-your-poison scenario. and if you can maintain these levels, absolutely. I'm so excited about how he might pair with Belaber. I'm really excited to see how he might pair with Andre Santos too. So this is a midfield now with far more variety and far more tools than how it was last season and the season before that and it's really exciting to watch. Andy? I was just thinking I've got a beef with Ipswich Town and where can I fit this in? Rather than just talking about Cobby Mane. You squeeze it right in here, mate.

22:12Well, singing We Support Our Local Team, No, you don't, because your average crowd a decade ago was 16 ,000, and nine years ago and eight years ago, and now it's 30 ,000. Whereas if you compare you to your main rivals, Norwich City, who are consistently getting 26 ,000, whatever division they're in. So I respect the Ipswich fans who go the matches, but saying that they support the local team to try and wind Manchester United fans up, the simple facts are that you support them when they're doing well, when they're in the Premier League. but 13 ,000 of you have jumped on the bandwagon. I watched you take 900 at Millwall a couple of years ago with Switch Town.

22:49Anyway, I think you've got a decent team, a decent manager and you're probably going to stay up. Oh, okay. That was a backhanded compliment in the end. I think this is why United lost at Hull, by the way. You know when Andy had the opportunity to slag Hull off before the opening game of the season, he was like dead complimentary. He declined. Yeah. So can we not have that again, Andy, please? We want, you know, daggers thrown at all opponents from here on in. All right, fine. I hear you, boys. we'll ask you about your Everton beef later on in the week to preview that game

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25:13We've also had a lot of messages, as I'm sure you can understand, about Marcus Rashford's first appearance for Manchester United, or first start in the Premier League at Old Trafford since December 2024. It's been a long time. It was interesting to hear what Michael Carrick and Harry Maguire had to say on Rashford after the game. So here's a flavour. Yes, to be fair to Marcus, it's been really good since he came in. He's trained really well and today I think he was a threat constantly and I think he can still do a lot more and I think he'll say they can do more. But I think if we keep him fit, we keep him happy.

25:44I think he's a great asset as well. I thought we dealt with the whole day as normal, really. I'm sure it was nice for him to be back and start on games here and enjoying being involved in a good performance, really. It was his first start, but I thought he'd done particularly well and not easy circumstances, particularly as the game was going through the kind of cycle and then second half it all clicked. So I thought he'd done all round very good and he'd only get better. So I was really pleased with him. You've got to remember that Marcus has had a wonderful career first quarter. When you play at this club for numerous years, there's going to be bad seasons and when the bad seasons come, everyone piles on you.

26:27And that's part and parcel again for playing this club. And Marcus was here for I don't know how many years and every season we haven't been perfect because as a team and as a club we haven't been perfect from top to bottom and we haven't been challenging at the top and when you're winning Premier League year after year after year it's easy as a player to mingle into that group and play well. Marcus has been part of a rough ride for Manchester United and when that happens and the team doesn't deliver players get digged out and he was one of them at that stage hyping through everyone's been free at this club so he's come back in he's trained over the summer you can tell in his comeback really fit, sharp and we're excited to have him in the league and chip involved.

27:07Lots of emails as well, like I said before on this. We had Gerald and Nat, who we saw at the game. Two Manchester United fans, I saw you Laurie as well I think, so thank you for saying hello. They were saying that our question is, what are your thoughts on Rastrup's return to the starting line-up? I thought that he showed bravery to take on the defence and desire to win the ball back as well, both important in winning back our hearts. Zachary as well. Could United wind up unintentionally, he asked, benefiting from Rashford's loan moves? I mean, that's a different way of looking at it. But being in the ground, I was interested to hear what the reaction would be to Marcus.

27:44And I think a couple of key things, really, hearing people when they spoke about him, sort of saying, you know, he'll be given a chance, but he's got to do these things. And everything sort of had a little caveat to it. But to be fair to him, in that 90 minutes or however long he played against Sipswich, he did those things. He was working off the ball as hard as he was on it. He added a different dimension to United's attack at times as well. Again, the relationship with Luke Shaw, a big plus point of United's performance. Yeah, if he keeps that up, I could see him becoming a first-choice player again, actually.

28:16Yeah, I think he did everything that you would want from him on a return to United. The main thing is really the effort that he puts in. And obviously that had been the thing that I think could cause people friction. And sort of Maguire touched on that after the game in terms of the toll that perhaps the undulations of being a United player can take when you're not winning titles. And it's not all, you know, great. And you kind of, people are criticising you. That's not a reason not to then try on the pitch. I know that. But I suppose from a player's point of view, just trying to perhaps give a bit of context.

28:48But it feels like he is refreshed. You know, like we're sort of hesitant a little bit to fully, fully commit to it. The thing is, he's got to do it for much longer than a few games, hasn't he? To really win people back over, I think. Yeah, but I do think that he gives United something different. He carries the ball with such speed and with such directness. And then the interchange, that understanding that he's got with Luke Shaw, it's like they've never been away. Eight seasons, I think, are putting my piece this morning. 215 appearances together. I knew you had the stat. Thank you for doing the research that I couldn't be bothered to do last night.

29:21It was late. so and again there was overlapping runs I'm sure that he then just found him straight away there was that one in the second half that I think then ultimately led to was that the Mbumo chance after that or maybe the Rashford one on the volley either way it kind of led to a decent chance and so yeah but it's the stuff off the ball I think his last act was tackling Fatou and then he gets kind of applauded off the pit there was a tackle on Anciso as well in the first half so again it's the first game but But there's that sort of, it feels like there's a buy-in from him and Carrick starting him straight away.

29:56It made sense. We discussed this on the previous pod, didn't we, with Dorgoo and not having his greatest game against Hull and thinking actually this could require something else, something a bit special. But I don't know, I was just really, really pleased with what I saw from Rashford. Even that volley to Dallow's cross, the connection is so sweet. It's a great save. So, you know, that goes in. I mean, the roof would have come off. There was also that chance in the first half where Cunha squares it and he's perhaps a little bit on his heels, but sort of doing the right things. And so, yeah, I agree with you.

30:25I thought the crowd reaction was good and I think it'll only continue to be that case if he plays the way he is doing. Even if he doesn't score or assist, it's more just that overall approach that I think people want. And yeah, he got brought off. I think that was an opportunity there for people to give that recognition. And yeah, I think Carrot was tapped into that homegrown feeling, didn't he? that kind of, you know, going back to the well of, you know, this guy was a teenager coming through at United, born in Manchester. Can you re-energise that in somebody? It feels that he's in a good place at the moment.

30:58I thought he had a good game, a different game to what I expected. I thought he was going to exploit O'Shea, the Ipswich captain who was playing out of position, playing at right back because he's a central defender. And I think people had pointed out his lack of mobility, even though Ipswich Town won their first game. But I thought Marcus, he He got quite close to a cross. He hit a free kick over. That was all inside the first 20 minutes. He set up on Bumo about five minutes after half-time and then he had that volley on target. He was involved in the build-up to the fourth, effective runs throughout.

31:31So really encouraging for a young man whose head is having to get round quite a lot. This is someone who wanted to stay at Barcelona, whose manager wanted him to stay at Barcelona. One person didn't want him to stay at Barcelona. So that has led him coming back to Old Trafford. where the percentage chance of him staying i can remember being in trondheim a month ago now and saying there's an 80 chance that he's going to stay and people are like no he's going to go he's going to go and he has come back and he is playing well the connection with sure we touched on it last week we saw it in the second half at hull but in some ways coming on at half time when you're 2-0 down that's a free hit you've got nothing to lose so that was really encouraging and the reaction from the crowd being positive is a good thing as well I think if he's playing well and trying and scoring well then he will win Manchester United fans back the ones who've doubted him so good day for Marcus Rashford but as you've said we're still in August aren't we yeah but I'd love to see him have a successful season if you look at the greatest appearance and goal scoring charts and Manchester United is one player who's not that far off you know moving up and up we all I didn't think I'd ever see him play for Manchester United again.

32:43So it's a surprise for us and I'm sure it's a surprise for him too. Yeah, I think one thing yesterday as well, Carl, and bear with me while I explain this. I think it helped that he wasn't the story in the end as well. He wasn't the one to score the hat-trick. I mean, he came very close to scoring in the first half, like we've mentioned, and the second half with the volley and even the cross to Mbumo that somehow hit the bar and stayed out. But United scored five goals and it wasn't all reliant on Marcus Rashford. In some ways, I think that suits him, the fact that there are. Laurie wrote in his piece as well, there's Kunja, there's Mbumo, there's Bruno Fernandes, there's Benjamin Sesko.

33:18All have got an expectation and a pressure on them to deliver goals and assist for United. It's not just Rashford like it's felt like in the past. I wonder if that suits the situation a bit more, that he can just do the hard work, the graft, let others take the acclaim if that's what happens and just get on with it, basically. I think it's a benefit of the squad being stronger in a number of key positions. So rather than Rashford being asked to do everything or trying to maximise things that he's perhaps not as good at, he can focus on the things he's good at, which is running in behind, being a creative threat, trying to attack the half spaces.

33:54He's got Luke Shaw, he's fully fit at the moment, which is always going to be a huge point of difference for Marcus Rashford. and yeah it's a lot different teeing up attackers of the calibre of Mbouma and Cunha compared to some of the other forwards that Marcus Rashford coexisted with in the past during some more difficult moments for the team yeah I've watched I think we've all watched Marcus Rashford enough in a Manchester United shirt to know when he's feeling it and when he's on it and I think within 20 minutes against the switch you start getting a signal of oh he fancies him he fancies this he wants to get a goal here and the fact that he didn't get a goal but still found a way to positively contribute is good but as you say it's got to continue he's got to maintain those defensive standards I think what there was a moment in the first half maybe around quarter minute mark when he makes that tackle and the old traffic crowd responded to that and I think that's the old traffic crowd saying we want to see more of this week in week out than the nutmegs and tricks and everything else um when I was away for the first two pre-season games, a lot of the questions about whether you wanted Marcus to stay were centred around his effort and his perceived lack of effort.

35:08Marcus Rashford has to run. That's a prerequisite. That's the non-negotiable for so many Manchester United fans. And if he does run and continues his running that we saw against Ipswich deep into the season and in the big moments, you know, Marcus Rashford, Manchester Derby, it's not necessarily about can you score, but it's about can you run? Can you make sure that left-hand side is properly protected then hopefully we can come back to a healing process between the fan base and the player certainly a situation to keep an eye on there's no question about that it wasn't perfect the day was it so we should probably talk about some of the issues that United faced as well after spending half an hour dishing out the praise um defensively Laurie still some issues isn't there and even the chance at the end I mean maybe the game is just won by then it doesn't really matter but there still has to be a point where United get back to keeping clean sheets consistently because they're not going to score five goals every week.

36:06They haven't done it for five years. When's it going to happen next? You can't rely on that, can you? Well, now Michael Carrick's back in the building. It'll happen next week. They were scoring five goals every other day, weren't they? They scored it quite a few times, but obviously that's a bit excessive. Yeah, no, you are right. There's absolutely warranted concerns over defence. I think the way that Luke Shaw was beaten for that first goal by Fatou was too much, too easy. He sort of died in, didn't he? That's scaring me. And then there's Andre Martinez. That's scaring me. Well, I mean, it triggered a whole load of reaction online, didn't it, for get a left-back in, which we can perhaps move on to in the last part of the podcast.

36:43Well, it led to a left-back scoring, that particular move, who then got linked online by fans with Manchester United, which was a funny moment. I feel like he has been looked at in the past, Leif Davies. Obviously he came up with Ipswich, didn't he, a few years ago and he's more mature than 26. But yeah, great finish by him and actually great pass by him for another chance that Ipswich had. So yeah, but I mean, you've got Luke Shaw there as the guy that's going to be United's left back and now with Lewis Hall, not going to be pursued this summer. Yeah, the alternative is what we're kind of thinking about there.

37:19What kind of standard is that going to be if they do go for one? Let's say there's 48 hours of the window left, But yeah, as you say there as well, I think that Martinez at the end of the game, I don't know, 5-1 up, kind of trying to play your way out of trouble, trying to show your skills, just get rid of it. Obviously, I don't think he would have done that if the score was 1-1, for example. So I think the game state has affected what he's chosen to do there. And you can see the disappointment from him on Lomans. You know, 5-2, just a frustrating one. 5-1 would have felt a lot cleaner, sweeter.

37:51So, yeah, but I think this defence has got a decent record. I've seen some stats online where, you know, in terms of Dallow being right back, I think that was an interesting change again. And his record of being unbeaten goes on. I think it's now 17 games, the last 17 games that he's started, United haven't been beaten. Maguire and Martinez, yeah, do have a partnership. You know, it was in the last season, wasn't it, where they kind of really came together. And they've got a decent run, I think, together. And then Luke Shaw as well. So whilst it is a defence that you might say has let United down, you know, previously, certainly elements of it, at the moment, it's actually not a bad one for victories, at least.

38:26But I agree that, you know, four goals in two games that they've conceded so far, albeit with two changes, Masrawi and Heaven coming out of the team, isn't a great start. So that does need to be rectified. But I do think Lomond's behind them. I mean, he pulled off another great one-on-one save, didn't he, early on? and I think generally he still is continuing that air of calm that he brought last season. So, yeah, they do need to make improvements. I don't think it's as... I mean, it's only Hull and Ipswich, so let's see when it's the big teams. I guess maybe I'm eating my words, but it doesn't feel like it's a dramatic shift that needs to have happen, but certainly an area to kind of keep an eye on.

39:03I thought Luke Shaw recovered in the game, to be honest. I thought the second half was much better. Obviously, it's a bad error for the goal and I thought it was brilliant that he came out and addressed that, actually. He insisted on doing post-match interviews yesterday because he wanted to hold his hands up and say that he was angry and disappointed, I think were the words he used, in himself for the way that that goal was conceded and the way he was beaten by Fatahou down United's left-hand side. So I thought that was good in a way that he's not hiding away in the dressing room. He wants to front up.

39:32It's only words. I know people will say that. but Luke's been so positive about the group and speak to people around the United First team and Luke Shaw's saying that this is the best group he's been a part of in terms of the mood coming into this season so I think he also probably wanted to back that up by saying this is what I meant when I said this was a good group they can score five goals they can beat Ipswich Town so it's an area for United that they're going to look at unquestionably it's an area that's going to have question marks over it throughout this season because they've been linked with left-backs because I think if money wasn't an issue, they would have had a left-back in as well.

40:09I think you're right that Luke recovered. I think he changed his game actually and gave himself a bit more space between him and Fatahou because he got well beaten for that goal. And it's interesting how people jump straight into reactions. We need a new left-back now. I'm like, that's pretty disrespectful to someone who's had a very good season last year. I think Manchester United do need a left-back, someone to challenge and maybe even take over from Luke Shaw. But I felt in the second half, he made a very difficult interception where Ipswich were attacking at a key point. People are going to use him getting beaten for that goal.

40:48My opinion on Manchester United needing a left-back has not changed at all. The club have decided that Harry Amass isn't the person who's ready to challenge just yet. we've seen the names who've been linked from Lewis Hall Leif Davies has not been linked I think I said on the last podcast that he was a Manchester lad he's not, I got that wrong he actually came through Wolves and Boys Club where Michael Carrick came through and he's a decent player as well I don't know whether Manchester United will bring in a left-back before the transfer window end there's certainly a desire to And I think as Laurie and I both mentioned on the last pod, maybe it's more likely to be alone if there is one.

41:37I watched Alejandro Balde. Well, I watched Barcelona the other day. He wasn't playing, but it seems he's made up with the coach. So that was looking pretty warm a week ago, but absolutely less warm now. And I think Barcelona's position is if anyone leaves, they want money in the bank, which is what most clubs. um once so that that is how i read the situation i'd be a little bit worried actually if no left back came in although you know we know masrawi and delo can play that i think that is um and louis skelly was someone who they were looking at as well and and as i said on this pod if you would have asked me two weeks ago he would have been the one before belaba came in who i thought manchester united were going strongest for but all the time the club were receiving mixed signals this isn't just a player going i fancy that how do i join when when's training start there's so many different moving parts with agents and clubs.

42:29The bottom line is Manchester United are coming to the end of the transfer window and haven't strengthened in that position. Yeah Luke was sort of holding his hamstring at one point it looked like as well before he came off but from what I could see from where I was it sounded like he said give me five more minutes. He ran off the pitch, he didn't receive any treatment when he immediately came off which you'd think if there was a problem he would and when he came and did his post-match interviews as well there wasn't a sign of a problem so hopefully he's okay um hopefully that's not an issue

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44:59We'll talk a bit more about transfers in a moment, but Andy, I think we should mention the mascots for Manchester United yesterday as well. It was a lovely touch by the club after an incredibly traumatic experience for those children. yeah so about a week ago i got wind of the fact that um matthew blades who was one of the pcs who died in middlesbrough um along with his top colleague tom clough that he was a manchester united fan who actually traveled regularly to games with his with his two sons and then at the end of the week it became my understanding that manchester united were going to do something about this and I was told that Bruno Fernandes had spoken to the sons, sent them a message and then that his wife Sarah wanted to do something as soon as possible for her two sons and what that ended up being was their sons leading the team out at Old Trafford which I thought was lovely and I think sometimes people forget what a force for good Manchester United can be I don't think the motivation was to do it for publicity ironically it's the front page of every British newspaper that I've seen so far today but I just think on a human level it was a really decent thing for Manchester United to do and I can't possibly comprehend the the state of mind of those young boys who've lost their father in tragic circumstances.

46:31But I hope that they had a wonderful day. And I hope that his wife found something from it as well. I think Manchester United, who are often criticised and sometimes with good reason, have done a really good thing here. And my sympathies go out to them. I'm sure when I tweeted about it on Saturday, the reaction was very, very positive towards Manchester United doing this. So I'm glad that United and other football clubs where possible can do things like this. It's not just about a game of football. Clubs reach much more deeper into communities. Yeah, I think we all agree with that. Obviously, our thoughts as well with everyone affected who've lost people in that incident as well.

47:18Okay, it feels a little bit hollow after that, to be honest, but let's talk transfers if we can, Laurie. There is just a few days, or a few hours almost now, left of this window. It's been a bit of a rollercoaster, hasn't it, in some ways for United supporters. There's been moments where they've been very happy, there's been moments where they've been not so happy. I'm not quite sure where we are on that particular barometer at the moment, but what do you think's left in this window? Yes, yes, yes. I think we're here again, aren't we? Deadline Day United signings, I could see something happening.

47:50Has it been like five in a row that United have made a signing on deadline day? Is that right? Something like that. In the summer window? Yeah, I think summer window. I've just blurted that out. It's something that's within my bones. It feels like it's right. So I think maybe, listen, Carrick after the game was, again, I don't know, pushing is probably too strong a phrase of it, But just sort of rereading his quote here and sort of say, you know, he's pleased with the business that they've done. Adam Marcus feels like a new sign-in, quite happy. We're always open to something else if there is something else to add.

48:28Wouldn't shut that down, but as it stands, we'll have to wait and see. Which does feel like, you know, I think he would like some support in those areas that we've discussed. Just to touch on the left-back again, I think Salinas, I know we've mentioned him before, Or it feels like Atletico is the club if he goes anywhere from Racing San Sander. So, yeah, I'm not sure. Loans is what we keep being told, really. Like, you know, what kind of calibre is that player going to be? I don't know. It feels like you'd probably want someone that's ready-made that could kind of come in and do a job. But I guess it's got to be right for United.

49:02I think they're still figuring out how to allocate the resources that they've got. Joshua Zerkesi is a big case at the moment, whether he goes or not. He's turned down the Fiorentina approach. It feels like at this moment, Beto is on his way to have a medical there with Fiorentina as an alternative. But then there's been other clubs in for Xerxes, I think in the Premier League as well as in Italy. We've mentioned before Juventus have been in talks over signing him and so have Napoli. So let's see how that finishes and then whether that then frees up some funds. I think it would do, right, to go and get somebody else.

49:36I mean, surely if you let Xerxes go, you need a replacement. you need another forward coming in. I think that there's certainly people at United that would like another physical presence up there. So when Sesco isn't available, you have that kind of figure that can actually hold the ball up and have those kind of runners in behind. But yeah, it's difficult to kind of pin that one down because there's been a few names that I've heard discussed privately, but until you get to that moment of actually things progressing, it feels a bit of a waste to mention because United have done this where they've progressed things, kept things live, and then made their move quite late.

50:10So it's a good approach, I think, because it keeps people guessing and hopefully gives the club leverage when it comes to negotiations. And then also, I think maybe worth mentioning, Louis Page, who's at Leicester. Yeah, I feel like that one is still a live issue. Arsenal are obviously in for him as well. I think they're currently figuring out whether they can afford the money that it would cost because it's going to be a few million, I believe, from Leicester. It's going to be a permanent transfer, you know, if it goes through. and it's going to have to be a senior one. He's signed pro term, so it's before deadline.

50:42It has to be executed. It's not like it's an academy transfer, which you can maybe do outside of their windows. So, yeah, but like I say, I think it's going to be a case of United figuring out exactly what they want, what they need, what's achievable, and then allocating the money as they see fit. Carl, interesting that Michael Carrick didn't shut down transfer talk. And he's done this a few times now where he's kind of left it open and obviously made the point that he is open and wants more. Yeah, it feels like the door is slightly ajar. To my mind, the squad needs two more faces. I very much believe Manchester United need a new left back.

51:16I think losing Joshua Zerksi and not getting in a centre-forward is survivable, but I would much rather prefer to get a centre-forward replacement for Joshua Zerksi, preferably one Danny Welbeck-shaped, but he's gone to Chelsea. So, yeah, I agree with Laurie. It's got to be someone with good back-to-goal game. probably someone with good aerial ability too. I think when you're looking at left-backs, you want to get someone that can offer that sort of overlapping runs that Luke Shaw is able to offer Marcus Rashford and to not leave Rashford, Kunia, Dorgou, whoever else, marooned on an island. Again, we are seeing Dorgou not being played as a left-back, which I think is Michael Carrick.

51:55Without saying it, he doesn't view Patrick Dorgou as a left-back. and yeah looking right now to the right of my screen I've got one big folder of Balde screenshots and match footage I've got another big folder of Jorge Salinas screenshots and data so Laurie you're saying the player's been mentioned privately could you give me just like a quick heads up behind when the show's done just in case it gets done so at least I can do my prep but the thing I don't want you to do any more wasted work because I mean maybe you can make something out of the Salinas and the Balladay pieces you know here's what United could have been looking at you know like a bullseye kind of here's what you could have won yeah it's never it's never wasted work it's all knowledge that goes back into the great you never know when it comes in handy definitely practice in my sentences yeah exactly Andy we need to come back to Manchester United selling players as well don't we because Toby Collier has completed his move now to West Brom We spoke about that a little bit on the last podcast.

53:01It's£3 million up front, I think. There's a salon clause. I think it could rise to about£7.5 million. People complaining about that price, considering we've got Mark here on email saying, are United the worst team in the Premier League for selling players? I mean, I wouldn't go that far. It's definitely been an area for improvement, but it does feel like they are slowly getting there in terms of getting more and more for these players and the salon fees and so on. all these sort of clauses are paying them back bit by bit. United do need to be better sellers. I think the club would acknowledge that.

53:35But you can only sell a player for a fee that someone's willing to pay for it. If someone said to me yesterday that we should be getting£25 million for players like Toby Collier, yeah, bring it on then. If you've got no bids for the player, and forget about the monetary side of it, there's a human angle here as well. You've got a young man who is not going to play football for Manchester United. So someone has made the decision at United, we're going to let you go. We don't think you're good enough to be playing in our first team. Okay, fine. So he has to find his level. What is his level? He's going to West Brom, one of the biggest clubs in the championship, where he went to a year ago, but he didn't really play because he got injured.

54:18And then he went to Hull City, who were promoted, but he didn't really play because he got injured. but when he did play he was man of the match against the best team ipswich town but we still don't know what his level is so it's very hard to put a price on a player who's played so little football it's just really hard to do and there's this backdrop of other clubs selling and sometimes for deals which look really bizarre where manchester city brings someone in for like 30p and selling for like 250 million quid and you're thinking what on earth's gone on there but I can only focus on the Manchester United side of it.

54:57If you're selling players from a position of strength then you tend to get more from them but Manchester United are not in a position of strength. I remember when the team were dominant and the preeminent force you could get top rate for players who weren't going to make it. I remember Michael Appleton going to Preston or to West Brom and you're thinking that's really, really good money but Manchester United finished 15th last year. So I'm hoping that Manchester United do become better sellers. I'm hoping that the wage is that players are paid becomes more realistic because that's another stumbling block.

55:36Young Manchester United players, some of them receive so much money that they're unattractive to buying clubs. So what then happens is clubs go, we're not going to buy him because he earns too much money. So Manchester United then have to compensate. So it's not just as easy as saying, get extra money. I wish Toby called you well. I think he's a really impressive young man. I think he deserves a little bit of luck with his injuries. But having spoken to him, he felt very comfortable at West Brom last year. He really liked the manager there. And if he does do well, as I hope he does, then Manchester United will benefit from that because there's a significant sell-on fee there.

56:15So I get the point about the initial fee looking low because it is low, but I've also given my reasons there. How much is he worth? I don't know the answer. I don't know whether you lads agree or disagree. I think it's interesting how much of a hot topic it's become. And I can sort of understand it, but I think it's in this world, isn't it, of you seeing mega money for players that you've not really heard much of or have failed, basically. I think there's different reasons for clubs deciding to go for certain players and commit to a large amount of money. So, for example, Liam De Lappe has a season at Chelsea, doesn't really do anything, and he's now sold to Nottingham Forest for£50 million, like record signing, I think.

56:54But he had scored 12 goals in the Premier League for Ipswich. And when he went to Chelsea, it was a release clause. He's undervalued, really, for what he could have got. And he's British. So you've got these elements that kind of come together. And Collier just hasn't had that yet. He's obviously, I think, a talented player. And I think he'll do really well at West Brom. They're up at the top of the table, aren't they, at the moment? I think he had his choice. He could have gone to Hull maybe as well. But I think game time is important. I think Middlesbrough were there as well. And okay, fine.

57:20The sell-on, I think 40%. So say he goes somebody else in two years for 30 million. That's a significant amount of money that United would then get. So I can see United hoping that that maybe happens. And fine, you could say, well, you should be able to do the negotiation yourself and get that money right now. But it's not realistic. It really isn't. There's not the clubs out there that would commit to that. So this feels like a good step for him. And then the add-ons, there was a lot of back and forth over whether the add-ons were achievable or not, whether 7.6 million is realistic. But yeah, I think it does pertain to West Brom getting promoted and maybe even being in Europe.

57:57But I think the majority are attainable. So again, you're sort of thinking, well, that sort of feels like a fair kind of deal to do. But yeah, I agree and accept that people are quite agitated about this because it feels like United are being unfairly, I don't know, limited in what they can then spend because you're getting these other deals that are happening. And listen, let's face it, some of these other deals are for FFP, PSR, whatever the current terminology is, purposes, where you've not actually used the right terminology, but carry on. What is it? PCR. Squad ratio? PCR. Squad cost ratio.

58:27Squad cost ratio. I need to get into it. Sorry. SCR. SCR. There we go. There we go. Carl with the knowledge. Come on, Carl, tell us what it is. Squad cost ratio, SCR. Yeah. I understand the frustration. You see the prices being paid for players and obviously that then affects Manchester United going after footballers as well, doesn't it? And if United are trying to do it differently to everyone else, it feels like. Because the end of this window is just absolutely crazy. The last few days have been crazy and I'm sure the next 48 hours, whatever's left by the time this reaches your eyes and your ears will be pretty crazy as well.

59:04But anyway, that's it for Talk to the Devils. Keep your eyes on The Athletic for the very latest on Manchester United's business and what's left of this window. We'll be back later on in the week on Thursday to preview Everton. But for the moment, thank you for your company. Thanks for listening and watching. Cheers, Laurie. Cheers, Carl. Cheers, Andy. And we'll see you on the next one. Take care. Bye-bye.

59:46The Athletic FC.

59:54Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance, and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new workday. Hey, we're Nick and Jack hosts of the best one yet behind every episode. There's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google doc, the headline hammer with Google workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools. We already use like Gmail docs and sheets, no new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about.

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