Daphne Guinness and the Anarchy of Creativity with Katya

0:05Ah, okay, welcome back to the bald and the beautiful. However, today is a rare exception. Neither of us are bald and both of us are beautiful. we have a legend in the house Daphne Guinness thank you so fucking much for being here I was going to do this like really cheeky thing it was like get like fasten your fucking seatbelts because we've got a legend in the house she's an elusive she's a fucking legend but I was just that sounds really good okay great Daphne fucking Guinness thank you for being here this is I have to say I'm going to try to like modulate my emotional temperature and not flip out because I was telling Mark about 10 years ago, maybe me and a bunch of my friends were at a friend's house on the floor of his bedroom.

0:56And he's like, I have to show you this. And his giant TV, he put on heaven and we all like collectively shat our pants. And it was, we were all like, it was like a rare moment where nobody pulled their phone nobody looked away nobody had gone to the bathroom you know i mean it was like such a difficult thing to have everybody's attention like laser focused and then we just started watching all of them and it was like it was so surreal so cool and now you're here it is so weird so thank you for being here thank you for having me how are you doing i'm doing really well it's so nice of you to have me and i'm so happy you loved having because i never know what i'm releasing into yeah yeah you know Is it a trap?

1:41Yeah, no, but it's also because there's never any plan. Yeah. Oh, well, that is very relatable to me. I never have a plan. Never have a plan. No, no. But isn't that the best? Flying by the seats of your pants. Yeah. I mean, because if you plan, it's always going to go, something's going to go wrong anyways. Yeah. What is this? What is this fucking cool ass? This is, I made a glove with my friend Sean Lean and Alexander McQueen. and this was one of the tryouts for the whole glove thing. Jesus Christ. So this I still wear. I've got a couple of them. So, I mean, we're going to get into your like insane couture.

2:20I wouldn't even call it collection. What would you even call it? Like tsunami. Yeah, like. No, I didn't know. Not quite. If you had to, if you had to throw out a number of looks, say like full looks, that you could style a person in. How many would you have to guesstimate that? I have no idea. Because I can do a lot of things with changing accessories or switching things between things. But I don't know because actually a lot of my stuff just lives in storage. And is it like, is it okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's all right. I think it's okay. I mean, it's because I kind of float around. I'm not really, I don't really have a place as it were.

3:06Yeah. Citizen of the world or the universe. Yeah, exactly. Oh gosh. I dread going into my storage because the idea of the just like memories and. Oh, I have, I want to. So I was obsessed with, I mean, I came into like looking at fashion kind of late. And I think when I saw the Plato's Atlantis collection from McQueen, that's when I was like, holy crap. Yeah. And then what was the point at which you kind of like really got into the world of fashion, like so in the thick of it? I guess I was in the thick of it, but I've never really, I know it sounds really, really strange to me, but I've never been on the industry side or in the kind of, or really, I've never been employed in the fashion world.

3:54Which is probably great. It's probably great. So I'm kind of, I'm neutral like Switzerland. Yeah. Yeah. So I haven't, I'm not sort of bound by any brand or by any kind of whatever. I just go with what, how I'm feeling. And a lot of it is friends really. But I did find myself in the thick of it. Probably, I mean, I was in the thick of it before I met Esi. That's how it, in a way I kind of met her. Well, I sort of, I remet her in 1998, but I knew her as a teenager. Okay. She was quite a lot older than me. And it's her birthday today. Shut the fuck up. So happy birthday, Isabella Blow. So for people at home who don't know, Isabella Blow is a legendary stylist and a champion of McQueen.

4:36Was she the one that bought his collection from school? Is that correct? Yes, that's correct. Okay. And so, yeah, she was like a, I mean, how would you describe her? Oh, my God. She was the funniest person. I mean, her laugh. And just she was one of those people that just made you sort of braver. But just by being around her. I'm actually quite sort of shy and anxious. She's much more sort of like gung-ho about everything. And I sort of, I fell into that part of the kind of fashion world, but I'd always been sort of in the background. I didn't really know how to be in the thick of it. I kind of just learned on the road, as they say.

5:17Yeah, it seems like, I mean, it always seemed to me like an impenetrable world of like snobs. Yeah, well, pretty much. I mean, it's a world like any others. And what's great is it's like a kind of like a fair or something. So you do run in. What's nice is you sort of develop friendships and lots of sort of relationships over the years. And even though I'm kind of, unless it's a friend, I don't really go to fashion shows because I think it's sort of like it's more for editors or it's more for kind of like whatever. And sometimes, you know, I've started to go a tiny bit more only because people that I know have taken over houses.

6:04Sure. Yeah. Who, I just watched the Victoria Beckham documentary and it was really fascinating to see like how long it took her to get taken seriously. Yeah, but she's really good. She actually is, right. She's really, really brilliant. But it was a slog. I know, it took her a really long time for her. Like almost 20 years. And she's so talented. Yeah. Yeah. But they just won. I mean, I. I think it takes like, it takes you about 10 or 12 years to kind of break even or not even. I mean, it's not. I think it took her longer. Longer. I think it was like 17 years or something crazy. And that's just like, and the business side is one thing, but then like the, you know, the reputation and the.

6:45Well, she did it. Yeah. She did. she's fucking funny too I've never met her but she's hysterical but it was such an interesting look at how how kind of it is tough to get taken seriously because you have to be an artist and you have to be a business person and then you also have to be cool yeah yeah yeah I must say I kind of stopped I didn't even I must say I live in such a different world and so in an intersection in my own mind of kind of other things of mythologies. What is your favorite, what is your current obsession, if any, you have like at this very moment? In the fashion world? No, anything.

7:34Well, selfishly, but the album I'm writing. Okay. But it's kind of halfway in my head, you know what I mean? It's sort of, I'm plotting it out as it were. No, you mentioned outside that songwriting is like, you happen in a flash. Yeah, it happens. How the fuck? I don't know. They just appear. I guess it's like excavation or picking up on signals from beyond because I don't feel like, I feel they kind of write themselves in a funny way. Interesting. So they come up with a tune and a phrase and then it all sort of like, just it's like a kind of puzzle. It just comes together somehow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

8:12It's like, you know. Yeah, I feel like the more - Sometimes some are more resolved than others. I was bopping in the car severely to hip, neck, spine. I just got to tell these fucking children at home, if you're listening to this or you're watching this, and if you don't fucking go to YouTube right now, I'm going to kill myself. Oh, no. You need to put this song on your fucking phone and you don't need to watch this thing on YouTube. skip that damn ad and then watch the goddamn it is like I what is so exciting to me is that because now I'm doing little lip sync wiggles again I have an arsenal of your fucking music that I'm going to make money off of oh great gosh I'm so glad because it's so difficult for me to find English language music that I actually like oh my goodness but it's oh that's so flattering thank you I mean I'm not I don't there's no point me blowing smoke up your ass, but like, it is so good.

9:17It's like, ooh, ooh, ooh. It's so cinematic. That I did in two takes, actually. And it was so funny because my producer was upstairs, Tony Visconti. And I just sort of, because I knew I had a little bit more and I needed to change a couple of lines. And so I was just there with the engineer who was, I think he was really blushing in the thing. Because I thought, you know, and then I thought I might get a laugh out of tony but you sort of like didn't even kind of notice and i was like whatever but anyway it was quite funny do you have fun in the booth i do it's kind of but for me well when when you're when the band is in the room it's great sometimes it's the loneliest place to be to be you know sort of tracking yeah with a whole band and then you go in and then you do the lyrics afterwards i quite liked i mean and i probably perform perform better in the studio when the band is in the room.

10:11Okay. I mean, although I can, I can do it on my own. I mean, it's, you know, it's weird, but I think the thing is sometimes I can put the band off because I think in harmony. So, okay. Okay. This is the first line. And then I'll sort of jump into a sort of third harmony for the second. And everybody thinks I've switched tracks. So I'm much, much better at keeping on the kind of just lead vocal. Yeah. Not trying to skip around too much, not doing octaves up, down or. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever been like, have you ever released a song that you're like, maybe like a little while later, you're like, oh, I wish I did this.

10:51Or do you just let it go? Pretty much. I mean, there's one song on my first album that's in the wrong key, actually. Oh, really? Yeah. Sounds better in the original key that I wrote it in. Interesting. And then I'll probably re-record that in its original key. It's only half a step up, but it makes all the difference. Gosh. I mean, I dabble in, and I say dabble as a dilettante in music, which I have no business singing, but I love it. Everybody's got business singing, to be honest. You know, and with technology, it's like, but anyways, but we're talking about like where did these ideas come from?

11:25And I had like a, my flash of genius was black diarrhea. And if you think, if you just think about, don't think about the subject matter, just the way that it sounds. Yeah, yeah, that sounds. it's no I get it but that's how I always do it it's also it's consonants it's vowels yeah it's the way it sounds exactly so you need to have a hard you know you need sort of like sometimes I'm always unless I've written it all in one go then sometimes that does happen evening in spaces I wrote that in one sitting kind of like and it's 54 chord changes I mean poor guitar players that have to follow me on that one it modulates every one and a half bars Jesus I mean, it always comes back.

12:06Something's football. Yeah, nothing's football. Exactly. So, I mean, you know, rock music is sort of, at this point, sort of four chords. They say three chords and the truth. But this is like 54. It's easier for a string section to do that because your voice is like a violin, essentially. It's that sort of. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the chords. So, you know, you can bend the voice through different things. But if you're trying to do it on a piano or on a guitar, you're putting out chord charts and it's like, I've been told many times I'm very good at doing things between keys. So it's, you know, I don't know, it's normally a D minor or an E flat major, which is a relative, whatever.

12:46But anyway. I know exactly what you're talking about, by the way. So, yeah. So, and also I go into those kind of Arab-y things. What does that mean? Well, they're sort of, you know, the Eastern European kind of scales. What does that mean? I should know. Oh my God. Well, no, if you think about, I do sort of it's

13:07I'd have to map it out for you I can think of it it's a good example you know the song the Beatles song called Girl when it goes into a bazooka it's difficult to so Russian music for example has a different it's got sort of like a it's just it's a different it's not a different notation but it's you know the octaves are sort of slightly more what did I say I lost my words I mean I don't know I don't have the musical vocabulary I can hear them in my head a lot of that even many many even pops there's a lot of like it's a lot of folk influence a lot of even like accordions like you know which I'm obsessed with Russian pop gosh I wish I was being more articulate today are you kidding me I mean I have like I have two EPs I don't even know how to talk about notes so oh my goodness

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15:58I'm heading to Phoenix for a gig and while half of the country is slipping on ice and shoveling driveways, I'm packing sunglasses and a bikini. that Phoenix sunshine just hits different, especially when you booked an amazing house on Airbnb. I'm talking morning walks in short sleeves, coffee outside on a patio, squeezing in hikes through Saguaro cacti, and alfresco dinners because the weather in Arizona wants you to live your life outside rather than huddling next to the radiator as the sky outside is gray and lifeless. I booked a stay through Airbnb and honestly, it's going to make the whole trip so much better.

16:32I'm going to have room to spread out, a real living room to hang in, and a table where I can actually sit down and eat instead of juggling a to-go container on a lumpy bed. I can shut the door when I need quiet, open things up when I want light, and enjoy actual privacy that feels like my own place. And if I'm traveling with my crew, we can actually all stay together to make the entire event smoother. And while I'm soaking up the sun in Phoenix, I'm already planning the next trip this summer to the Amalfi Coast. We're talking fresh seafood caught that morning, long days on the beach that melt into even longer nights, and hopefully a fling with a dark-haired Adonis named Antonio.

17:08Trips just hit different when you book a home on Airbnb. And I already know I'll be booking my next day through Airbnb again and again and again. With Airbnb, every journey feels like it's being written just for you. I don't even know where to start with the music videos. I don't even know where to start. I guess we'll start with Heaven. And so when did your collaboration with David LaGapelle, because he's done many of your, how many videos has he done? Seven. Jesus Christ. They're so like, they're so perfect. And I'm looking at the current pop stars in America and like my favorite pop stars in Russia and, you know, going back to like whatever, 60s, 70s, 80s.

17:52Nobody's doing it like you. It's like, it's just so, it's so fierce. It's like the, we watched, I made the girls watch Heaven and Time and so do you enjoy doing music videos? Yeah, I love doing music videos. You do? I do. I love doing music videos. But yeah, I mean, I really enjoy doing music videos. Sometimes they go on for days and nights and days. I was going to ask because a lot of people I know who do, they love the product, but it's always just a means to an end. No, I like the process. You do? I'm a process person. In fact, I don't really like releasing things. I mean, I'm doing it very quickly this time because actually the whole kind of talking up a thing or whatever, I go into a terrible grief process after doing it because I get so into it.

18:41It's like the post-show blues. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I like making stuff up, seeing where it lands. I mean, it is apparent because when you watch something like Time or especially having every shot and every introduction of a new look in a new like tableau is so like divine it's kind of impossible to think that you're not having the blast you know it's just so like it's so it's there's like an ecstasy in it you know it's really and it would have i was like what if she says i fucking hate it no no no no no but also david's kind of like my brother so i mean what is he like oh he's so great he's so funny he shot the he shot i think the promo for trixie season of all stars yeah and it was so we had i was very jealous because our season sucked.

19:32We had no promo. It was shit. And then the next season, they have David fucking LaChapelle. No way. And it was, Trixie said it was like amazing and it truly was amazing. But yeah. He's so funny. Yeah. How does that, what does it look like on a set? What's the vibe? Oh my God, chaos. Yeah. Organized chaos. Okay. Yeah. Does it? I mean, I've been, gosh, I mean, we've sort of, gosh, we've shot for days and weeks and a month. And sometimes things feel like one long shoot. Fuck. Cause I mean, a lot of times, I mean, he sort of, I mean, essentially, I mean, he'll just, if he says jump, I just say, ha ha or whatever.

20:15I just know it's going to be all right. And I thought, okay, well, you know, if something goes terribly wrong, at least I'll look good doing it. I mean, that's like, it's the worst thing to be kind of like dead on a set, kind of like looking really sort of glamorous. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm thinking about like, I'm thinking about the evolution of aesthetics and certain trends in pop culture and like how, you know, sometimes it goes, there's like the pendulum swings like towards like a super, super advanced technology and then kind of retro. And what is the video you have that it's a VHS vibe?

20:51Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that song? That was the beginning of Deviant Disco. Okay, because that, I was like, I was looking through your catalog and I was like, I wonder if she's done like a VHS thing. And sure enough, it's so, it's so fucking, like, it has the contemporary like kind of knowledge of all different types of aesthetics and like treating that retro one like with such precision. It's so good. Oh, thank you. I'm sorry I'm like licking your ass. No, it's really nice to get feedback because I have no idea. I kind of create in a bubble. How long? So most of the music videos that these horrors do, they do two days, maybe.

21:33And sometimes they do overnight, which is nuts. I used to love doing that. What's the longest shoot you've been on? Four days without sleep. Fuck. That was evening in space. That was really fun. God. We watched that at my friend Franz's house. What's your favorite? if you have one. I love them all for different reasons. Hipnext Wine took three days. Three days, okay. But it's nice to have some time. And also, I think you hit a kind of sweet spot on the second day going into the third. Yeah. The first day is always a bit everybody sort of like getting themselves together. I mean, it's really nice to be able to have three days shoot.

22:15Do you work with different crews? I don't know. I've worked, it's lots of people from especially on the David sets I've worked again and again with just because they're his crew and then also obviously with Nick Knight oh right right right he's the show studio and I wanted getting into these looks getting in and out of these looks pretty simple actually hair and makeup I mean the clothes I'm really fast really I can change in about two seconds as long as the hair and makeup's done I'm I'm I'm good damn I'm like struggling I have I'm I'm at the back trying to pull up the zipper that I sewed on myself and it's just really annoying when you have to sort of like do that yeah that's that's what's nice having someone you've got other people on set to have helping you to do that have you ever gone home in a gown that you had to like cut yourself out of yeah yeah I had stuff that's, you know, ripped on me and fallen off and whatever.

23:15It's tragic. Tragic. That's why the one thing. You know, things just go. Yeah. The yoga. Yoga is good for that. It's the, this. Yeah, exactly. That and then this. That's the only thing that yoga is good for. Yeah. Oh my God. It's so good. Yeah. What is. Oh my God. Trying to get in and out of catsuits in lavatories. Sort of. Oh my God. Especially when you're loaded up with chains. Heavy. how on earth am I gonna yeah a lot of that shit looks really heavy it is quite and these are like your signature shoes I want to talk about having a signature look in a world where oh this is part of my intro in a world of imitators she's never replicated something like that how do you choose and stick with a signature look.

24:12It's kind of what I'm feeling comfortable in. It's just whatever. Yeah, it's just whatever. And actually, I kind of get really boring. I start wearing the same thing every single day. But like a uniform. Yeah, like a uniform. I love uniforms. Especially when you're recording or something. You don't want to have to spend too much time. What's one thing that you would never wear even with a gun to your head? I have something beige. Like juicy couture beige sweatpants? Oh. oh anything kind of brown I'm not really good with brown it has to be a very very sort of it has to be a very crisp burnt umber you know combined with a Prussian blue you know what I mean I'm not good on this sort of autumnal oh you're not a pumpkin spice latte girl no no no no I was thinking to myself like the irony if she showed up today in like keds a pair of like trousers and like a hoodie it would be so fucking funny oh my god actually yeah it's funny someone was trying to thought they might make a sort of funny video and I'm like nope I just couldn't I just would have I would have a serious reaction you're literally like hives I have serious reactions to sort of like some tones of music some some colour palettes oh like okay so beige beige well I mean yeah beige yeah what about in terms of like decor in the home in in your surroundings like do you like bold colors do you like stark black and white and red and a lot of shiny surfaces chrome yeah and white and red yeah yeah and chrome and i like i like duck egg blue and silvery you know swedish 18th century kind of yellows Oh, hell yeah.

25:58I just painted. I live in this hell hole, but I, I have having to paint these rooms and, and I'm like looking around and every, every apartment or every house that is trying to get sold in America is gray, beige, soft beige, light gray, light eggshell, soft eggshell. they're gonna go let grayge and it's like and all the furniture is that color too and it's either all white I'm like I quite like all white you do yeah but I like using well not if I wish I had a really big place to do but whitewash whitewash because then you can add other colors to it oh sure but also it looks really good whitewash is like lime wash what does that mean you know like in Mediterranean when you see the houses I like using that on the inside oh yeah that's gorgeous if you use that on the inside you can it just gives it the walls a kind of I don't know it just looks so good we painted the walls because they were fucking totally rotted like a semi-gloss white and that was cunt but each room is either goldenrod like yellow it's so fucking bright and it's like I couldn't believe how it changes your mood yeah like instantly yeah like it's like fucking prozac it's actually like way stronger than prozac it's like energizing and super uh it has a really like strong effect and then it did absolute like scar like this color red matte in my studio oh in the ceilings and everything and it's like so cool it's very aggressive but it's also it's like motivating and a little confrontational.

27:46But it's nice. And then I did blue. I just went super, super bold in every room and I'm so glad I did it. But I'm never going to be able to sell this place. Oh my goodness. Because nobody's going to want to live there. Yeah, but people repaint. I guess. Yeah. What's your least favorite color if you have one? Such a stupid question, sorry. What's your favorite color? No, but I mean, I suppose... I love green for plants, but I don't wear green. Okay. I don't know. What about orange? But I love green. I mean, it depends. I sort of think in sets of watercolors in a funny way. I mean, it's not about, it's about, I think it's about tones of colors.

28:31Sure. So, you know, like red can be horrible. It can be. What's my least favorite color? Synthetic color. Ah, okay. I like old colors. old colors when i did when i was at art school i would steal from my the art store that i worked at the really really expensive oil paints you know because they have the those like such a different quality yeah yeah exactly you get these shitty two dollar acrylic tubes or these like eighty dollars sennelier like uh oil tubing like holy fuck it's such a difference it's like black and white yeah it's wild this i think it's the problem there's not not very much nuance with colors anymore.

29:13No. We're living in a very un-yarned world, which is kind of un-mysterious to me. Yeah. I think people are really, they're, they, it seems like because people have access to everything now sort of visually via like Pinterest and you can, if you want to know what Kris Jenner's bedroom looks like, we can look at it right now. No way. You know what I mean? Like online, you know what I mean? Just look at Kris Jenner's bedroom. I'm sure we'll get it. That's so funny. And you're like, you're so like, there's a lot of just like dogpiling on trends and they all seem to just kind of get watered down. And it's like, it's kind of shitty.

29:48It's kind of depressing. It'll come back. I don't know. I think we're all going to hell. Oh my God. But we'll keep it light. We'll keep it light.

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