In short
Leland and Trixie discuss Freddie Scott (Leland) as a behind-the-scenes music writer/producer for Drag Race and “rusicals,” plus his songwriting process, collaborations, and DJing approach.
Guest backgrounds
Freddie Scott is a self-made musician/songwriter known for writing pop music for major artists and for many Drag Race musical interludes/rusicals. He’s worked with artists including Selena Gomez (Rare) and Ariana Grande (Dance to This with Troy). He also co-produced large Drag Race-related projects with Gabe Lopez (e.g., Queen of the Universe).
Key claims
Rusical themes come from an open dialogue (Ru/creative team/others), with genre-flipping and heavy editing to make interludes flow as one piece. He describes writing as “hearing it in your head,” then refining in Logic/Pro Tools. He says working without Gabe Lopez was his first major change in years.
Notable examples
Rare (Selena initially turned it down, later took it); Queen of the Universe (65 songs, fast deadlines); Wigloose (voice of Carl); Bitch Perfect (acapella challenge); Glamazonian Airways; “I Hate People” (Willow song lyric swap); Dance to This (Ariana recorded within 24–48 hours).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOLeland's Musical Background and Writing Process
0:45 to 2:40
Discussion on Leland's experience writing for various artists and his background.
“They walk in, they find you in some kind of high-waisted something.”
Behind the Scenes of Writing 'Rare'
2:40 to 4:30
Leland shares the story behind writing 'Rare' for Selena Gomez.
“So I was like, I've got to be a part of this.”
Touring with Troy and Backstage Stories
4:30 to 7:10
A funny recount of touring experiences and backstage antics with Troy.
“Do you know what I'm going to talk about?”
Creating Rusicals and Thematic Challenges
7:10 to 9:30
Leland explains the creative process behind writing rusicals for Drag Race.
“But yeah, but I, there's very much like, it's an open dialogue.”
The Impact of Collaboration and Loss
9:30 to 11:10
Leland discusses his collaboration with Gabe Lopez and the challenges of creating without him.
“It's not called gay, but it was called like gay show.”
Emotional Labor and Judging in Drag Race
11:10 to 14:01
Discussion on the emotional labor involved in Drag Race and watching performances.
“an interesting life chapter, uh, navigating, doing all these things for the first time without him.”
The Drag Race Experience
14:01 to 15:00
Discussion on the unique experience of performing on Drag Race and the pressures involved.
“It's like you can go watch the performance.”
Age in the Drag Scene
15:01 to 16:16
Exploring perceptions of age and longevity within the drag community.
“To me, 35, and not just to me, 35 is so young.”
The Creative Process in Songwriting
16:17 to 18:04
Insights into the songwriting process and the evolution of song ideas.
“That is the weirdest thing of like a word that didn't really have much significance to you that day or wasn't associated with anything.”
Working with RuPaul and Drag Race Productions
18:05 to 21:08
Behind-the-scenes experiences working with RuPaul and the Drag Race team.
“Katia's pretty heavy handed with FaceApp.”
Show all 22 chapters
The Challenge of Writing for Drag Musicals
21:09 to 23:28
Discussing the creative challenges and expectations of writing for Drag Race musicals.
“And I was the voice of Carl played by Sasha Colby, which was very fun.”
Collaborative Music Creation
23:29 to 28:03
The importance of collaboration and evolving musical styles in the drag community.
“If you say the musical, does RuPaul just shoot you?”
Building Musical Connections
28:03 to 29:44
Exploring songwriting dynamics and personal experiences with music.
“And Willow was like, just, just go for it.”
The Quest for Love
29:44 to 31:08
Discussing the challenges and aspirations of dating within their community.
“And then I was going to go to dinner with someone else and then he invited a friend.”
DJing and Performance Vibes
31:08 to 32:44
Insights on the joy of DJing and the camaraderie between performers.
“Um, what is the last culturistas category?”
The Evolution of DJing
32:44 to 34:39
Reflecting on the changes in DJing styles and personal growth in the craft.
“Last year, you and I were in Australia together.”
Creative Collaboration in Music Production
34:39 to 36:58
Discussing the collaboration process with artists and producers in music.
“It just sort of lets me like - Absolutely.”
Influence of Ariana Grande
36:58 to 42:00
Exploring the impact of Ariana Grande on music and personal experiences with her.
“Because, you know, it's going to have a specific feeling or block party vibe or late night 3 a.m.”
Collaborating with Influential Artists
42:00 to 43:50
Learn about the dynamics of musical collaboration and the importance of being open to ideas.
“So to me, like Charlie has always been as big as she is now.”
High School Musical Moments
43:50 to 45:10
Discover a fun anecdote about performing with Jesse McCartney and high school experiences.
“Are they musical at all where you just come out playing piano and they were like, that's fun?”
Memorable Encounters with Mel B
45:10 to 47:10
Hear a humorous story about a surprise encounter with Mel B after wrapping a show.
“She's also in the British Mafia because I went to one of Vanderpump's restaurant openings and she was there.”
Struggles with Social Media
47:10 to 49:10
Understand the challenges of gaining access to social media accounts and the evolving landscape.
“Well, and we like raided craft services for what was left over for the, for the wrap party.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:05Trixie Mattel:Hello, Faggity people. We are here. Katya is still out. Everybody's been asking, like with Katya out and sick, everybody's been wanting updates. And the update is that I look really good right now. My skin has been really good. And anyway, our guest today is a musician, a songwriter, a funny person, so handsome, self-made, endlessly talented. You know him from writing pop music for all the artists you love. as well as writing basically every musical interlude, rousical, anything music of quality that happens on Drag Race is attached to this person's faggity little computer. Freddie Scott, ladies and gentlemen.
0:42Trixie Mattel:Yeah, we have Lucian Peani here.
0:48Trixie Mattel:But no, seriously, Leland, you guys know him from, basically I'm going to reenact what they know you from, which is every time a bunch of men with no eyebrows are seated on the main stage and they're like, I've never been in a recording studio before. They walk in, they find you in some kind of high-waisted something. Right. Oh my, you're so right. With some kind of statement jewelry. Tight, can barely breathe, having to stand for three hours. Variations on blonde hair. Yes, yes. Well, because we never knew what we were going to get. That's the truth. Every time my friend came over to do it. We are back, RuPaul's dying your hair before the day of.
1:19Literally. Literally.
1:20Trixie Mattel:Has one of those plastic caps on. We're trying out wigs. We run out of wigs, so we just dye it again. Yeah. My God. But we have Leland at the studio, everybody. I texted you, what, two hours ago? What are you doing today? You said, I have a writing session at 2.30. I said, can you come down? Yeah, I had no writing session. No, I do, I do. Who are you writing with? This girl, Hayes Warner, who is starring in a TV show called The Shards, which is coming out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ryan Murphy program. Yes, exactly. And John Shave, who is an iconic UK producer. Gay, not to out him, but he is married to a man with kids.
1:55And he has done everything from Kylie Minogue to brat. How was he married to kids? Married, did I say, to a man with kids.
2:03Trixie Mattel:Oh, sorry. Did I leave out some really important words? I thought he was like Pauly. He was married to a man with kids. Oh, God, my God. No, no, no. They have kids together in their wedlock. And he is so... In their wedlock. That's beautiful. And he is so talented. And so we're writing today. It's like, yeah, it's really nice. But I'm so happy to be here. So everybody knows you from Drag Race and I wonder, obviously, you have written for Troy. You've written for, didn't you write Rare by Selena Gomez? Yes, yes, yes. Competing beauty company. It's okay. It's okay. Well, I'm wearing Rare foundation today.
2:36So one of us,
2:38Trixie Mattel:I don't think she's sitting home wearing Trixie cosmetics. So I think one of us is pulling ahead. You never know. You never know. You never know. She's my autoimmune diva sister. I can't say that. You can. I can. That's my culture. Thank you. I one time was at something. no that's not true making something up no I was wondering if I'd met her before I don't think I have what is she like so sweet yeah so the story behind that song is my friend Madison Love and I that was the first time we'd ever written together and we wrote that song and we wrote it with Selena in mind I love I had a long chapter where I was like I love writing with Selena in mind whether it ends up with her or another artist, Justin Trandor and Julia Michaels had written Hands to Myself and all that album.
3:24And I was loving it. So I was like, I've got to be a part of this. They don't need me, but I've got to be a part of this. And so we wrote Rare. You let yourself into the studio? Yeah, literally.
3:34Trixie Mattel:I'm a part of this now. I am a part of this. And Justin was like, who are you? But yeah, so we went in, wrote this song. Selena turned it down initially. And then maybe a year later, when another artist had taken the song, we were, we heard that she did want the song after all. And, and so we were like, fuck, you never want to do that to another artist. The artist was one that we love, but then we were like, oh, but the artist that we wrote the song in mind for wants it. And so then, you know, you do the things of like, we're so sorry, here's other options of songs, or we can dedicate two weeks of writing songs with you just for you and all of that to try to smooth it over.
4:17And then, yeah, Selena ended up taking the song and putting it out. And then the beauty company came shortly after. Wow. And I still don't know how to do makeup after all of that. Well, my God, that is true.
4:29Trixie Mattel:One time you and I were on tour. You were opening for Troy. Do you know what I'm going to talk about? Stockholm. Yes. Okay. You were opening for Troy and I was playing the same rooms as Troy, but I was doing seated. And obviously you guys were doing like standing pop stadium vibes. And I came backstage because I was doing, I play guitar for you when you're promoting Middle of a Heartbreak I'm still in it Love that song This is my dead on impersonation of the musical pieces in the beginning Blue Blue Blue Blue That's pretty much it Yeah that is it And I came backstage and I was like oh this is Leland's little And you guys it was a big tour You guys travel with Troy So it's like There was like Chef Right.
5:15Troy's parents were there. Delicious food. Listening to him say about his butthole every night. Yeah. His mom films every single show. On like her iPhone? On her iPhone. Love. Every single show from start to finish. And then you know what is so sweet is she does watch them back.
5:33Trixie Mattel:It's not like they're just sitting there. She watches them back. My mother would never do this. My mother would be like, get this shit off my phone. She had her iPad, like, get this off here. Every single one. Close. Yeah, it was incredible. So sweet. I really want Troy's mom to start recording the show with an iPad Pro. Yes. Yes. Well, and Troy's dad loves a drone. So there's going to be a drone hovering on the left side of the stage. She's going to have her iPad Pro. Fierce. And I love it. It's so sweet. Is there anything better than an old person taking pictures with an iPad? Well, they were like my parents on tour.
6:08And so it was just so nice. Nice. And they are like an extension of family anyway. So they're just the best.
6:13Trixie Mattel:Well, they're also real family. They're not like an extension of family. That's Troy's parents. Well, my family. Leland's like, it's like they're related to him. It's like they raised him. I remember I came backstage and you had a Mac Studio Finish concealer. The top of it was punched out. And it looked like you applied it with a pickle every day or like a little cornichon. The plastic cover was broken and so half of it was missing. So there were just microplastics in the microplastics. It was like an exposed, obviously like a 10-year-old concealer. Yes. I think there was a blush. Maybe an eye pencil?
6:52Maybe brows? I mean, that's why I say I get all my makeup at estate sales, you know?
6:57Trixie Mattel:All of it. I want a 40-year-old dead person's concealer. Yes, yes, yes. Expired. Yeah. I have a question. you have written pretty much every russical that people know in the in in i didn't do madonna okay i didn't do share there are some incredible ones that i like did not do but yeah my first one to ever touch was all stars 2 i have a procedural question do you get to pitch the idea of a russical or do they come to you and say like it's a pharmaceutical theme or it's careful who who picks the theme or do you pitch them ideas it changes every single time if i'm feeling inspired by something uh whether it's the sound of ruzik or moulin rue or something like that then i'll pitch it but then sometimes tom will be really inspired by something or um or when we did fanny the hard knock ball you know well that thankfully timed really well with cats the jellicle ball that's happening on broadway right now so it can come from a million different places if Rue is loving something, if there's a movie Rue loves.
7:59But yeah, but I, there's very much like, it's an open dialogue. Anyone can bring whatever's inspiring them. And then we sort of just know when we're chatting of like, okay, it's the year to do this one. It's the Moulin Rue year. It's the Moulin Rue year. And that was still the toughest one to do because I knew Rue's catalog inside and out, but taking each song, making it work thematically with other Rue songs, other Drag Race songs, changing the genre completely, but making it one complete song. We had the love medley, all these different things. That was wild. It was, I felt like, I don't know, like just a crazy person snipping and like cutting and being like, okay, this melody can sing over this and this key.
8:42But when it came together, it was really special.
8:44Trixie Mattel:Brain rot. Fully. Honestly, it's kind of like, how rotted is your brain, but still intact enough to make this polished? Yeah. Yes, yes. But don't you think it's almost like you're, because you DJ as well. It's almost that DJ part of your brain where you're like, it's exactly these line up and you can hear in your head. Yeah. DJing. You can hear in your head if these are going to work before you do it. But it's so nice. You just have to know the, this music inside and out to then be able to hear it differently. For sure. Really what drag race is, is like we're genre flipping all the time. All the time.
9:18Trixie Mattel:I remember when we did, did you do the, did you do Divas Live? Yes. Have you done all of them? Did you do the, Not all of them. Did you do the football one? Because that was my favorite. The Super Bowl one was my favorite. Bring back my girls. Yes. Yeah. Love that. That was so fun. And then do you guys still... We worked with Christina Bianca. On who did all the impressions. My God. And then Vonzel did the Beyonce vocal. Vonzel Eats. Mm-hmm. I worked with her on... Do you remember that show? Matt had that show. Yes. Matt Rogers had that show. On Quibi. Gay. It's not called gay, but it was called like gay show.
9:54Game show. game show. I did the music for it. You did. But I thank God you remember. And Fonzell was there singing live.
10:00Trixie Mattel:Yes. It was so cool. I was like, is that Fonzell? And they were like, oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. Gabe and I did all the music for that and did the theme song and all the little snippets and that was so fun. I think I was on tour when that show was filming because I wasn't on set, but Gabe was there. Yeah. Oh my God. Speaking of obviously we lost Gabe. Like Gabe Lopez, who's your co-collaborator who worked on everything in the world, but a lot of drag projects, Queen of the Universe. Yeah. Have you gotten to go in and make something without him yet? Is it odd? Yeah, this was the first time making things without him in seven years or something.
10:38And so, you know, with, you know this, like with TV, like deadlines don't change. And so you're kind of forced to confront what's going to be an uncomfortable experience. And just like, yeah, without getting too like spiritual or anything, just like bring him along. And so it's been really interesting. Um, and everyone has been so lovely and obviously understanding and all of that. But, uh, if anything, he would just be like, you keep it moving, keep it moving. And we, and we have to, so yeah, it's been a, an interesting life chapter, uh, navigating, doing all these things for the first time without him.
11:14Well, yeah, because you guys had worked together so much. I'm sure you were like on shorthand. that's exactly right the language was um had been reduced to basically just noises grunts and and facial expressions yeah uh and uh and so yeah it's not really it's it's weird when it's not your choice for things to change right in such a big way so um but yeah i mean it's a dream job everyone at world of wonder is just the best and we all just adored gabe and so thankful for that chapter that we had with him because he was like, I love doing this. And it's not to compare, but he even more just like loved.
11:57Trixie Mattel:Put on this planet to do that. Literally. Fast. Literally. Do you remember we were doing Queen of the Universe? If you guys, when I did Queen of the Universe, Leland also basically produced all of those tracks with Gabe. It was like 65 songs. It was like a dozen an episode. Yeah. the speed at which you guys churn those out so crazy when you're in that environment where we just have to do a dozen lanes you just what, look at the clock and go alright that's a cut next and you think about the money and you think about the money and you know RuPaul's outside with a sniper and if you don't finish that track you will get killed executive produced by RuPaul, queen of the universe oh my god, good point that was such a crazy experience that was so fun I love that we got to live in London and the summers together yeah we never well we have to keep it fair so like I was a judge yeah and you're producing yeah so we like wouldn't talk too much on non-elimitation days because like la la la la la I don't know I don't know what's gonna happen exactly and I'm like producing things up working on arrangements working on structures uh helping with the duets of the original songs and all of that and not trying to uh and keeping you in the darkest to like producer conversations that are happening.
13:10But it was so fun. And I remember just having to go and give these queens pep talks before they would go on because they were so nervous. And the prize was two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. That is so much. That is so much money. That's so life changing. And as you wanted everyone to do well. And so it was really heartbreaking, like being on set on Drag Race sometimes is so heartbreaking. I don't I leave before the elimination happens. I don't like to watch. The emotional labor. Yes. Besides, even when I judged, I left. Do you watch the lip sync or no? Yeah.
13:44Trixie Mattel:Because on Drag Race, I don't know if people know this, everyone who works there piles in to watch the lip syncs. Well, and that's when you know, yeah, that's when you know like a rusical or a girl group challenge or something feels special when the whole crew and everyone comes to watch. It's really fun. It's crazy. It's like a culture of everything. Remember what job you're at? Unless you're a camera operator. It's like you can go watch the performance. You see like the PA eating a bag of chips, watching the girls lip sync for their life. And you're like, when you're up there being eliminated, you're like trying to perform.
14:15Trixie Mattel:And you see like the guy that drove you to set that day, like is watching. Whatever. Sure. Right. So you can pretty much see the whole set. Oh, yeah. Even though the lights and everything are super bright. But I guess. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Wow. And I do this thing that I don't think they like, which is stare directly at the cameras a lot. And they never use. Do you know how much time I spent on All Stars staring right at the camera and they just never used it? I thought I was on the office. I was like, oh, well, because now we're doing shots on the stage and we're, you know, all of that. Yeah. We want these moments.
14:45So what do you think about last season being for elderly people? Oh, my God. What do you mean?
14:51Trixie Mattel:I just worked with Darlene and she was 35. Oh, got it. And I know that that's about 25 years older than they have on Drag Race usually. She's retiring any second. She didn't even know she was. I had to pick her up from the home. To me, 35, and not just to me, 35 is so young. Yeah, I don't really think about it. Is that what you tell yourself? I guess so. I guess so. But you know what it is? It's because you're a producer and a DJ, and in a lot of ways, you don't really get to have your milk and cookies until you're even that old. Right. When you're a DJ, the old DJs are like veterans who are respected.
15:30Totally. And they're like 40, because we can do songwriting and all that stuff forever. You don't really age out of that. So it is wild. Of course, drag is such a physical job as well. So that, I guess, is something that you can start to feel like you're old for, I guess. I don't really know. But yeah, thankfully, I can just sit. That's all I have to do and write a song, mutter some words. One word, one third. I think you walked in and said the word rare and left. Honestly, I mean, Madison cranked that song out. I didn't do much. I knew I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. It's so fun. Writing sessions, because obviously you've done so many of them.
16:06They're so weird when like an idea comes out of thin air and then sticks and everyone's like, oh, yeah, let's like that's now permanent until we need to change it or rewrite it or something. It's such a strange thing to do when even something I love is when a lyric becomes a song title, becomes an album title, becomes a tour title. And then you see it on merch. Becomes a makeup company. Becomes a makeup company. That is the weirdest thing of like a word that didn't really have much significance to you that day or wasn't associated with anything. Then becomes what someone is going to go promote for the next three years.
16:41And she passed on it. Right. Oh, right. Initially. Yeah. Yeah.
16:51Trixie Mattel:I love songs about artists doing. I mean, I know you know some of them. Like Kelly Clarkson breakaway was Avril. Right. Avril wrote it. Yes. Yeah. That totally sounds like an Avril song. It does. But now of course I think of it as a Kelly song, but I'm like, wow, it sounds like truly like Avril let go era Avril, which I loved. I like remember sitting in my car, listening to that album and, and breakaway so much. I have a picture of Troy and I from the Grammys, uh, last year with Kelly Clarkson, that Troy and Kelly look amazing, I can never post it. Why? Because I tried a smoky eye that day. Oh.
17:29At the last second.
17:31Trixie Mattel:Oh, that's good. As we were walking. No, the sweet makeup artist didn't tell me no. But you didn't like the makeup? Well, we then got caught in the rain and stuck outside banging on the doors of the building trying to get into the Grammys because the storm was wild. It was actually, this was two years ago. Yeah, yeah, when I did the smoky eye. I learned my lesson and did not do that last year. But I have a really special picture of Troy Drew Barrymore and myself, a really special picture of Troy and Kelly Clarkson and myself. And I just I can't post them because I look insane. Katia's pretty heavy handed with FaceApp.
18:07Trixie Mattel:You could let her kind of do something. I'll send her everything. She'll yesify you. Please. Actually, she'll probably make you old. Like Michelle. She'll probably do this, honestly. Maybe don't send it to her. I'll send it to Michelle Collins, our friend. Oh, she'll handle it. Yeah, yeah, she's got it. I almost called her in today because she's in town right now. Oh, that's right. Her show. We're trying to go hang out with her next week. You know, she's obsessed with Survivor. Right. I think she's going to High Tops to watch Survivor. I might just go down to see her. Let's do that. You know, my A &R at Sony Publishing, Thomas, who is gay, was on Survivor.
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18:42You're just outing people. I'm outing people left and right. He was on Survivor last season. Doing what? Competing. Surviving. He competed and he was like a fan favorite. I mean, careful. I watched up until he got eliminated. Then I was done with it. But he was on it. How cool. Can I tell you something?
19:00Trixie Mattel:I go to high tops sometimes. Sometimes somebody invites me to drag race or something. I'll go. One time I went to a viewing party for drag race at high tops. These faggots talk through the whole thing. I'm straining to hear these drag. I'm watching one episode a season about I'm averaging right now. So I don't know their names. I don't know who anyone is. I'm straining to try to hear who anyone is. It was last season, I think, the challenge where they were doing like rock music. Okay. Rock music, girl groups, rock music. I love how you're saying rock music. It was a rock music. I'm like, it was rock music.
19:36Trixie Mattel:And I'm like, and I'm almost like, now I look crazy because people are like, is that Trixie standing close to the team? Right. They need to pass out headsets. Like a sound disco. Yes, or like in your car when you're at a drive-in theater and you play it from your radio. They need that. But that's why when it's an episode that I've worked on, I'm watching at home with my surround sound. And I invite like 10 to 15 people and we order whatever the fuck. And I watch it and I shush. Because I want people to hear we've worked so hard on this music. Yeah. You know? Don't laugh. Don't clap. Don't speak.
20:12Don't respond. Don't come. Ball gags. Don't come. Literally. And don't come. Yeah.
20:16Trixie Mattel:You don't come till I say Oh it's kind of like a group J.O. kind of thing When people come over to watch the musical I wish Like that's what I'm doing Girls, guys, whoever you know Whoever I wonder when you're putting these together If there was one musical you were working on That you were like we're in the zone baby This is the one Like what's the one Who would be the three Right okay yeah I mean Wigloose has a lot of My god I know you can't even say It's like, that's what it is. Immediate, yes. I know. Wig loose. For a drag queen, though, kind of a nightmare concept. Right, right. A loose wig.
20:53Of course, I'm flying. But because of what was going on in America at that time, when, like, in Tennessee, they were banning drag, and because of, yeah, it was really such a special, just, like, reflection of what's happening in culture at that time, and to have that cast. And I was the voice of Carl played by Sasha Colby, which was very fun. And we had some, just, yeah, the songs, it all came together. One of my favorite parts of doing these is, because I think we all know, you know, they'll do the musical sometimes twice for different camera angles and all of that. And in between takes, I'll go up to the judge's desk and chat with Ru and Michelle and whoever is there.
21:38and it's just really fun to chat and hear Rue's initial, because of course we've all worked on them, but then for Rue and the judges to see it come to life in that way. And one of the special parts is we've got all the songs, you know, we've got 10 different songs or 10 different pieces and interludes and whatever. And then when you put it all in Logic or Pro Tools, whatever we're using and piece it all together so it's one 10 minute piece and you listen to the flow for the first time, that's when we're like, this is special or this needs work or we've got a cut or we need to add things. That's when really the final pieces are like reveal themselves.
22:14It's like what we need to do.
22:15Trixie Mattel:Yeah, because you're writing it for drag queens, but you're also writing it for the main stage of Drag Race, for the Drag Race audience. So it's kind of like your freedom, but also you kind of have parameters of like these people who love the Rusicals. You know, the people freak out for the Rusicals. The people are like, that's the viewing party they throw at their house is for the Rusicals. Wild. Do you sit home and be like, am I going to wake up tomorrow? And people be like, that was the, that was the, that didn't live up to Wigloose or whatever. Not if, every single time. Oh, they get mad. Yeah, every single time.
22:47But you know what it is?
22:48Trixie Mattel:People who love Drag Race are very critical of Drag Race. And they're so creative about it. Like, that's the thing. It's all good. I was thinking one time, you know, when people just like lose their shit over a Rusical or something, I'm like, you do it. You do it. Thank you. You know what? You do it. You know what? By all means, you do it. Go out to the garage, get your Casio. You plug it in. Do it. I can't wait to see what you come up with. And I was like, that's my book title. You know what? You do it. You do it. Because if it's never going to be good enough, you do it. I'm sorry. My Julie Andrews version of Call Me Mother didn't work your pussy.
23:23Literally. I'm sorry. Literally. That's the sequel. That's the next book. I'm sorry. My Julie Andrews Call Me Mother didn't work your pussy.
23:32Trixie Mattel:There we go. I have a few that I loved. I did love social media, the musical. Yes. Yes, yes. If you say the musical, does RuPaul just shoot you? Yes, it's like going to SNL and calling it a skit when it's a sketch. You know, it is a... RuPaul. It's a RuPaul. I know RuPaul, but you, like, know RuPaul. What is it like to work with RuPaul so closely and, like, all that? It's awful. I think, like, it's just, yeah, I feel just like so... You're afraid. Yeah. I can't actually... Next? Yeah. No, it's the best. Like, you know, Rue and I would with Lucian would like have lunch years ago when Drag Race was just on Logo.
24:13And I was there when so many like iconic songs were made. And so I really got such a special crash course in all things Drag Race. And I remember I watched Drag Race for the first time at Tyler Oakley's apartment for a Drag Race viewing party he was having.
24:30Trixie Mattel:Oh my God, that's right. You've known Tyler for... Everyone knows you dated, right? Yeah, very briefly. And I feel like Tyler's like, stop calling it that. Tyler. Tyler. Tyler. Tyler's on... Tyler. Tyler. Tyler's on Twitch. High as hell. She don't care about you. She ain't watching this. And I'm just off Twitch. High as hell. Tyler's just sitting with massive pecs and a mustache playing Pokemon. She don't care what happens to us. I love when I'm on TikTok and it comes across Tyler live and he is in the most insane gremlin costume or something. Finger painted on. Or a Pikachu or something. Yes, yes.
25:07And I just.
25:08Trixie Mattel:Just vibing. Adore him. But yeah, the first time I saw Drag Race was at his apartment and my life was changed. The first Drag Race thing I ever worked on was Bitch Perfect. The acapella challenge. Is that season eight? They're coming through. I remember that. That was my voice. That low, low, low voice. Bitch perfect with the flashlights. Yeah. If I dream with the two groups competing. Yes. With the nerdy girls and the bad girls. Yes. Yeah. That was my first thing ever to work on. And then we did the Rusical for All Stars 2. And then it always just changes. Some seasons it's the girl group and the Rusical.
25:47Sometimes it's just the girl group. I trade off because there's other incredible writers that work on it. yeah and so we we just like trade off and whatever makes sense whoever's right for it it's kind of like you can feel katina we re-watched season seven a while ago they really put their whole
26:08Trixie Mattel:pussy into glamazonian airways god i mean that's just the blueprint isn't it track that kind of is the first it really isn't i think so no i guess the bitch ball was like a reason okay but like I don't know what you would call that, like a lip sync. It was kind of like a lip syncer reference, too, because it's an original track that's made to sound like it's clips from movies and stuff. That's exactly right. And it was genius. It was so genius. All the screams and the hard edits and the editing, the pacing was perfect. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. And I think that was such a great example for me when putting future musicals together was understanding the pacing, the comedy, finding the comedy in the instruments, like in not just in the lyrics, but in everything in the space and all of that.
26:57Yeah. I mean, Glamazonian Airways is just genius.
26:59Trixie Mattel:Plus, I guess you're not involved in choreography, etc. I want to be. You don't know what they're going to do. Yeah. You go watch them do the track and I bet you're like, I mean, drag queens will find a way to make something funny that wasn't even written to be funny. We hope. Yes. Yeah. But yeah, no, I wish there was a GoPro in my studio when we're making these because I am doing full out choreo. I mean, that's how we're honestly, that's how we try things out. It's to like see if the song is working or to see if something's working. I'm like crawling on the floor doing some sort of choreo. And like Tom is watching me being like, okay, come back, you know, but I love it.
27:34And it is fun, especially with a girl group challenge, to see choreo-wise what they do that's going to surprise you or make you laugh or play with the lyric. Or also, what I love is when something has nothing to do with the lyric. And it's just funny on its own. Yeah. Like, I Hate People, the Willow song was such a good example of that. Because I'll always chat with the queens for finale songs.
27:58Trixie Mattel:Oh, yeah. And get their talk or find out what's inspiring them. We talk about references, the world they want to build. And Willow was like, just, just go for it. And so I did one of my high hikes and I came back and I was like, I hate children. And then Willow was like, what about I hate people? And I was like, fine. And it was amazing. I still think I hate children would have really hit. That could be a remix. That could be for someone else, you know. But I hate people. I was like, yeah, you nailed it. That is, that is absolutely right. And it's relatable. Absolutely relatable. And then Sarah Hudson, who I wrote DJ Play a Christmas Song with for Cher, and Sarah wrote Dark Horse and Levitating.
28:41Sarah is the voice of that song. So I've had my friends cycle through, my songwriter friends, and sing different songs. Now we're in an era where the queens are singing their own vocals, which is really fun, too.
28:54Trixie Mattel:Well, uh-oh. Sometimes, right? You're asking me if I'd like to hear Foncel. Or you are setting yourself up. You don't even like - You're setting yourself up right now. I'm going to choose one. You are setting yourself up. She really is one of those people who can sing anything. God, I just love her so much and love her voice. She was originally from American Idol, right? Yeah, I think she had a stint on Idol. I swear to God, her voice, once you recognize it, it's in everything. And she's just so - Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. She's in everything. And she's so lovely to work with.
29:27I would love to have another chapter, whatever it is, of working with her.
29:30Trixie Mattel:Yeah. Yeah. Are you dating? Wow. Aspiring to date. Sure. Yeah. Aspiring to date. The last guy I went to dinner with is dating someone. So that doesn't count, I don't think. And then I was going to go to dinner with someone else and then he invited a friend. So I'm aspiring to do like one-on-one dinners. What kind of date is that? It's not. I realize it's not. Yeah. So no, the answer is no. but I'm feeling for the first time in a long time that I'm ready to. I was going to DM Chelsea Handler. Do you know that she's helping gays find love? Oh. She's like fully, fully helping gays find love. And so Troy sent me her story where she's like, send me your information and then I'm going to post.
30:19And she's been like matchmaking for people. Successfully? Successfully, yeah.
30:25Trixie Mattel:I really love that because now that I'm off the market, I'm trying to pair up every single person I know I think that everyone should be in love And they have no choice in the matter So either you find someone Or I will appoint someone Like a public defender I actually think an arranged marriage For me would be such a relief Yeah because you're open You don't have a type They just have to be what 20 Jesus Christ No I'm just kidding 21 No that's old But no just like funny sweet and like be able to hang out, you know, and like have the freedom and flexibility to like hang out, you know? So yeah.
31:07Uh, do the men recognize you online from drag race? Sometimes it's that, it's that weird. Um, what is the last culturistas category? It's like, not, I think it's like gay guy famous. Yeah. You know, it's that it's very, very limited. Um, but sometimes so yeah.
31:26Trixie Mattel:They're Like I saw a picture of you, Kelly Clarkson and Troy. You look different. How the hell did that picture get out? Why do you think it's so fun to make fun of Troy? Oh, you do love that. Do you think he hates it? I don't think he hates it. I just think he's like, I think he's like, does Trixie like me? I do like him. I know, I know. And he knows. I do like him. I know. I think he's just so sweet and kind and talented and handsome that I just feel like, well, that's kind of fun, right? I think it's, I mean, I love giving him shit and getting him worked up and all of that. Also because he never sees it coming.
31:59He just believes the good in the world.
32:01Trixie Mattel:And I like to play with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. More. Amp it up. Okay. Good. And I know he loves it. I need to get you back out there. What's the perfect date? I mean. Right. Are you drinking? I'll have a glass of wine. Yeah, you will. I'll have a cocktail. Yeah, you will. You know? What about one of the pit crew guys? You're at work all the time. Why don't you just swing by and be like, hey. Aren't some of them straight? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But you have girl clothes. Incredible. I've seen them. Incredible. I do have many, many wigs. Do you have a wig at your house? Many. And a trunk full.
32:35They're usually in the trunk at all times. And we've seen you with the smoky eye. So I'm pretty much there. You're pretty much there.
32:42Trixie Mattel:Oh my God. We did. Last year, you and I were in Australia together. Yes. I don't know what it is about you and I. Never hang out in LA. No, no, no. Only international. and then you crash my shows. And then I show up at your shows. I tell you that I'm VIP now. Yeah. Everyone's scrambling. Yeah, you DJed Mardi Gras and I literally invited myself and stood just backstage and watched. No, it was a dream. It was the best because sometimes I'll book shows as like Leland and Friends and I'm like, well, I don't know who's going to come or who's going to be my friend at this show. And so it honestly is always such a dream.
33:17I'm excited to see where we end up together next. Jail. Jail.
33:22Trixie Mattel:I find your DJing refreshing because I feel like in DJ world It's not cool to feel your oats Like it's not cool to dance Or feel your oats and it's especially Not cool to lip sync Like it's cool to look like You don't even like your own music and then once in a while You do this like I'm not kidding They don't do anything and so When you DJ or we DJ together I feel kinship because If we're gonna play the faggy music Can we dance and smile I am so in it. You are in it. It is like church. It feels so... I'm most times high, but I'm also just high and vibrating. You DJ high? Absolutely. On weed? Yeah.
34:04Yeah. That explains... I know sometimes the tempo gets a little slow. The music stops and you're like...
34:13Trixie Mattel:You're still talking like the music's playing. What? No, I can't believe you do that high. You know, I can't even... I can't even really drink during those. Or I get in my head that like, if one alcohol touches my lips, I'm like, I'm drunk. I'm gonna mess up. Wow. You don't get a little high and be like, am I the only one who hears the music or something? To me, it makes me do like, one, it makes me not care as much in a really good way where I like fuck around with my transitions or anything like that. It just sort of lets me like - Absolutely. And less like nervous. I used to take, I still do, of course, but I used to take it so serious when I wasn't good at it yet.
34:49Yeah. And I would have my, when I DJed Poof Doof in Sydney for Mardi Gras a few years ago, I had my like printout of every transition to the second of when I was leaving one song, going to the next one, my time codes and all of that. I was like referencing. And so now. Geek Squad. Full Geek Squad. People were taking pictures. Like Hawkers, who booked me, was just like could not believe it. But that is me very much to like show up super, super prepared. Try hard bitch. Very much so. So that's like, that's it. And, uh, and now I will show up to a gig and not know what I'm going to play because I'm like, what do I want to listen to?
35:28Yeah. You know, what do I actually feel like listening to? But watching you every time I'm standing next to you while you're teaching, I learn so much of what not to do. No, I learned. We did another back to back at that pool party in Australia too.
35:45Trixie Mattel:Oh my God. That was so fun. I do learn so much when I watch you DJ because it's so fun to just also see the music that you love. And I mean, obviously we both know this, but a fun part of DJing is like, what remix is that? Or taking pictures of the CDJs when there's a remix that you love. And going back to back with someone, especially with you, is so fun. I always have a really good time. You're very generous and we just jump on each other's shows all the time. You know, you should back to back with two. Mateo plays all the time in LA. You should go jump on one of his shows. I would love to. Have you done Hot Dog?
36:17No, but that is the party that inspired me to start DJing.
36:20Trixie Mattel:You should do hot dog. The music is the best. I would love to. They have great music. Shout out to Mario and the whole hot dog team. Nicest go-go's. Yes. Best drinks. Strong drinks. Yes. Great vendors. Yeah, I love shopping there. Love shopping there. But honestly, the DJs are the best. I have had so many special days into nights at that party. And that is what I was like, okay, I need to learn how to DJ. And now it's also just like to bring the DJing skill set into the studio. Now I'm like telling with Troy or whoever, I'm like, oh, I can hear this in my set. And that sometimes is a really good indicator of when a song is like coming to life or where it would live in the set or like, fuck, I cannot wait to play this song.
37:04Because, you know, it's going to have a specific feeling or block party vibe or late night 3 a.m. or whatever. But when you can hear a song in a set, that's when I get really excited now. Are you an Ableton person? Logic. Logic person. You love it? Yeah. Yeah. I mostly work with producers. I'm a co-producer, I would say, and I'll start song ideas. But when someone else is like so much faster and better technically, sometimes I feel embarrassed
37:31Trixie Mattel:turning over my first draft of a remix because when I give it to a real producer who's like a technician, I'm like, please don't call me back laughing at this. Like, I know this isn't right. You just have to not care because I'm the same way. My initial versions of Rusicals or girl group songs as I'm putting the songs together and then I pass it off to help have me like or have them co-produce it and bring it to life. I'm like, just relax. You can hear through it, obviously, all of that. So but I love it. And then I can like cut a vocal. You know, sometimes if I'm in the studio, I can cut a vocal on Pro Tools.
38:02And I do enjoy comping a vocal.
38:05Trixie Mattel:There is something very calming. It's like assembling a puzzle. Totally. Where you lock it in and you're like, oh my God, four hours have gone by. Yeah. I'm like in the zone. And then you play it back and you're like. You get horny. You know who can cut a vocal and comp a vocal? Who? Is Ariana Grande. She comps her own vocals. A lot of people. Click, click, click. That's cool. I love when she posts those videos of her comping vocals because she's so good at it. And she's, you know, got the microphone right here. So she's stacking vocals and harmonies and the workflow is on lock. That's what I love.
38:39Trixie Mattel:She also, obviously, her untouched vocals is a great start. Hey, it helps to actually sing like her. I love when I catch clips of her where she, the comments would be like, she tapped the microphone so people know it's on. Because you can hear mouth sounds and you can hear her handle. Real microphones. She'd really be singing. She ain't worried. And then, of course. It's the softest. I feel like she popularized the hands through the. It's so cozy. It's very cozy singing. Although I really like on TikTok and all that. I really hate to see like. Sometimes I'm like. We don't need to be cooking like this.
39:20Trixie Mattel:The girls be doing like meal prep. Pull your fucking. Pull your fucking sleeve back. You pig. Incredible. You hell pig. I'm like what's your algorithm? Yeah. You know. You're sick. I. Yeah. Ariana is the best. And one of my favorite. favorite songs that I have ever been a part of is dance to this, which is a duet with her and Troy. Yeah. And we wrote that song. Um, and then when you're in a session, you'll be like, Oh, I could hear this as the converse. Someone says it, I can hear this as a duet. And then you start to like, like I could hear Ariana on this or I could hear, you know, whoever, but this was one of those rare cases where we were like, this could be a duet.
40:05This could be Ariana. And Ariana was also recording at the same studio that week and it was maybe 24 to 48 hours later that from the song being written her vocal was on it and it and and you can also hear you i know you do this too like you can hear a vocal on it in your head just the way that you can with transitions with songs you can be like wow she would sound so good on this and they almost become like your model and
40:32Trixie Mattel:then if you're lucky sometimes you show it to them and they actually want it and then you're like Like when she brought it to life with the ad libs and hearing it in the high octave and all of that. And it was great, especially the verse when she sings the verse. I think the first lyric is like, dear beloved, bring those 501s a bit closer. And to know, to hear what I thought it was going to sound like versus what it sounds like, which was just insane. But it's a weird moment. A lot of these artists you've worked, not that they weren't big before, but some of these artists you've worked with have gotten so big since.
41:02Trixie Mattel:because you were working with Charles XCX before like Brat Summer Charles. Yeah, yeah. Because I always used to play your track, 1999 Is You, right? Yeah. I used to play that all the time and that was maybe my first Charlie track that I like really loved. It's Charles, but yeah. Technically Charles. Yeah. Technically a Troy track? I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. Well, yeah, I mean that song existed to a certain extent and then Charlie sent the song to Troy and asked if he wanted to do it and then we wrote a verse and to a song that already was just incredible. But yeah, I mean, I, and she knows this, but like I've been such a massive fan of Charlie for so long that maybe this was eight, seven, eight years ago now when one morning I got a, we had met maybe not that long before and then I got a text from her asking if she wanted to write that day.
41:55And I was like, she was like, are you free to write? And I was, but I was like, oh, of course. Yes, yes, yes. And I was so excited. So to me, like Charlie has always been as big as she is now. Like to me, I've just been such a, especially her influence in my writing. And so to spend time in the studio with her is the best until like I went on the sweat tour with her and Troy and just like hang. And she also is just the sweetest and so cool and so creative. And what I really appreciated was that she is such truly one of like the most gifted songwriters. But to want me there and to acknowledge and listen to my ideas and take them serious is all you can really ever ask for.
42:38And so it's it's cool that like she brings what's what she's so good at, but then also is open to other people's ideas. it's the same with Troy
42:47Trixie Mattel:I guess probably you work with so many artists I bet everyone's a little different but it sounds like what you're saying is there's a sweet spot where they're offering a lot but accepting of a lot otherwise why would you be there you know which is so cool to remind yourself of like oh yeah I'm here for a reason to contribute to give ideas not to see how many of my ideas stay in the song but just to like just to offer thoughts and ideas and be a sounding board and even if they just need help finishing lyrics to something Like I love starting from scratch with artists, but I also love if an artist sends me a song and they're like, can you just finish this?
43:22Or can, do you hear anything or what would you change? And I'm like, no, it's great. Or yeah, I hear a few things. I love being brought in and the last like 20 % too. That's also really fun.
43:32Trixie Mattel:Did you always know you were going to do this? Kind of. I like didn't really have a, an option. I really. Your parents forced you to write faggoty pop music. Well, you know, my parents, my parents are big songwriters. and their parents are big songwriters. Yes, imagine. Not at all. Huge nepo. Not at all. Are they musical at all where you just come out playing piano and they were like, that's fun? Yeah, not really. I had these managers come over one time when I was in high school and I sang at the mall. I opened for Jesse McCartney. I won a radio contest. Yes! Have you seen him on TikTok pretending to be Judge Judy?
44:05Trixie Mattel:He's very busy on TikTok. Judge Judy? He's killing it. He lip syncs to Judge Judy on a level that I'm like, is this an original audio? He's in the cast next season of Drag Race. Fierce. Fierce. You know, you know. My God. I don't even like saying that. He was just on Hacks. Oh, really? Okay, I haven't finished. Yeah, I think Debra gets him for like a birthday party. And he comes and sings happy birthday. I opened, yeah, my God. I mean, I don't even want to use the word opened. I played a few songs on my keyboard at the mall before he came and performed. Don't say it like that. And you know what I mean?
44:41Trixie Mattel:You know what I mean? I got my Casio from the garage. Yeah, this was 2022, you know. No, this was like, I don't even know. You were like in high school? I was in high school. That is crazy. Did you get to meet Jesse? I did meet him briefly. That must have been so thrilling. Yeah, just like coming close to just someone that was like doing it, you know, which was so cool. But then, yeah, just to be like, and then many years later, he wrote Bleeding Love, the Leona Lewis song. He wrote Bleeding Love? With Ryan Tedder. Oh my God. That song really is amazing. Absolutely killed it. And that whore can really sing.
45:18Trixie Mattel:And you know her. We know her. From Queen of the Universe. Yes. You know what though? She's also in the British Mafia because I went to one of Vanderpump's restaurant openings and she was there. Right. So I think there's like an LA British Mafia. And she has had a coffee shop, I think in Studio City or somewhere around there. She's a mom now. Yeah. Remember? Yes. That's how we got Mel B in season two, I think. Because I think Miss Leona was truly pregnant when we started filming that. She was like nine months in a day pregnant. I just love her. Love her. What a beauty. Yeah, so sweet. Oh my God, babes.
45:53Yeah.
45:54Trixie Mattel:Very that. British people, what are they doing? What's up with that? The big question, finally. You know, I haven't been to the UK in a while and I have been like really horny for the breakfast offerings lately. That's why you have to go to Soho House, because sometimes the ones in the U.S. will still do the English breakfast. I love an English breakfast. I know. I usually stay at the—where do you stay in London? It— I usually stay at the Merrell Bone, Marley Bone, Merrell Bone. What? And they have a really cunty breakfast that I've been doing. Yum. Wow. I'm trying to think of what I've—I definitely stayed at, like, a Soho House there or something.
46:32And the standard. when we finished, remember, I think you came over when we finished Queen of the Universe season one I rented like a fun room at the Standard for us to all hang in
46:42Trixie Mattel:wait a minute, I know we have to go soon do you remember when we finished season two of Queen of the Universe and we all thought Mel B left oh my god, do you remember this and we were blasting Spice Girls blasting Wannabe but we looked out the window and she had been camped out on the front but we thought she left hours ago she had just been on the stoop for hours She was just hanging out. So all the PAs who worked so hard the whole season, this is like their final day off after they've been dealing with these, you know, schizophrenic international drag queens. Well, and we like raided craft services for what was left over for the, for the wrap party.
47:16Trixie Mattel:Yeah. We had a little informal wrap party in like the, in like the queen dressing room or something. Yes. So, and then I had my phone. I was just playing songs from my phone and I played wannabe because I was like, she's gone. Surely she's gone. She walks upstairs in the middle of wannabe. Do you remember? It was like a record scratch. It was like the office. It did feel like that. She walked in, kicked open the door, started lip syncing. Started lip syncing. So here's a story from 18. It was such a relief because I thought she was going to have us executed. No, she loved it. And it was such a special moment.
47:46I think I have it on video. And then also Anna, one of the vocal coaches, was like doing an Irish jig during it or something.
47:53Trixie Mattel:And like it was chaos in the best way. It was so fun. Well, I remember asking her about Wannabe. I was like, is it weird that that song is still... She said, no, it's just like Baby Shark. She was like, it's kind of like Baby Shark. It's in your head. It's annoying. I was like, it is kind of like Baby Shark, which is a great compliment to Baby Shark. She adored you. I really love her. Shout out to Melby. Yeah. Shout out to Queen of the Universe. Shout out to World of Wonder and Raymond. And shout out to you for all your offerings. This is so nice. This is so fun. Can the people follow you? Can they date you?
48:27Trixie Mattel:Let them know how to find you. DM me. Just DM me. Yeah. I'm not, I need to, I'm trying to gain access to my TikTok. We're going back and forth on emails. I can't get any of the questions right, the security questions. So follow me there, but not yet. And then Instagram, I've got access to that. Why is RuPaul better at TikTok than you are? I gave up when they were like, they asked me all these personal questions and I got them all wrong, I guess. And I was like, and they were like, sorry, these are wrong. And I was like, well, then I guess I don't know. You on one of your marijuana hikes. Literally.
48:59Trixie Mattel:trying to answer questions. They're like, where are you from? And I'm like, the moon. And then they're like, that's wrong. You're on the side of a mountain. I don't know where I am. So I'll get back into my TikTok eventually. But also I'm like setting a new algorithm of all these people that are just buying French chateaus and restoring them. And it's all gay couples and they're going to go through all their savings. But I do want to do that at some point, go through all my savings by buying a chateau that I don't know how to restore. So that's my algorithm right now. So I'm happy to have this new TikTok account until I gain access to my old one.
49:31Wait, you have a new one now? Because you couldn't get in the old one.
49:33Trixie Mattel:And it's just like letters and numbers. You guys, I don't know. I know I've said how brilliant Leland is, but also not that bright. So I don't know. Thank you so much for coming down here. Of course. Love you. Oh, do you have a message of healing for Katya? Take your time because I'm loving this. Don't come back home. Bye. Bye. Bye.
50:01Thank you.
From the publisher
To properly record and master this episode featuring acclaimed music producer and Drag Race Rusical songwriting and composing legend Leland, first establish a controlled conversational environment in which wit, glamour, and industry expertise operate at optimal levels. Once the guest is securely introduced, permit Leland to provide calibrated insight into the mechanics of songwriting, DJing, and music production, whilst Trixie supplies approved quantities of commentary, disruption, and theatrical puns. Adjust the tonal balance as needed by increasing levity, reducing dead air, and applying a generous layer of anecdotal reverb to all discussions of pop music, creative collaboration, and never-before-heard-tea. Upon completion, the resulting episode should present as a fully mastered audio experience, combining professional tonal quality and highly-glossed podcast instability.
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