#552 - Oz The Mentalist Blows Our Minds

20:33Hell yeah. And so I'm at this bar mitzvah and I'm making this spoon bend. And this is two days after. And I'm doing this and I'm looking at it. And all of a sudden I have cotton shoved in my nose because I'm supposed to. And all of a sudden I'm focusing so hard that blood comes down both of my nostrils. And you hear three kids scream. I bet you that is a core memory for these children. Yeah, 100%. So right now when you said this, they're getting like a traumatic PTSD remembering of the magician at their bar mitzvah who was focused so hard that blood started shooting out of his nose while the, you know, if somebody sees this, can they please write to me?

21:06DM me if you were one of those kids at that party. It's like some stranger thing. Dude, it was on like 36th and 8th. I swear to God, it was so funny and they screamed and I was like, oh no, I'm bleeding. It was sick. You should just play into it. I should have fake blood coming out of my nose is what I'm hearing.

21:20Joe Santagato:I think like, if you could, if whatever's going to help elevate it, not that it needs any elevation because I, No cape? Yeah, I mean, You might as well. I mean, what's old? That feels a bit Dracula style, no? What's wrong with that? I don't know. Like whip the cape around? Or like a wand. Dude, if I had your powers, I would be such... What would you do, Frank? I want to know what you would do. I would be such a little bitch about it. Yeah? I would like, I'd have a cape and I'd fucking like, was that cool? You know, and just like throw it and guessing people's shit. Like, that is so unbelievably impressive.

21:57I want to give you my powers. Like Spider-Man where you get the bite and then a week later you become a mentalist. Just to watch you. Love the reference. Just to watch you use your powers for a day. It would be bad. You should make a video of just Frank Alvarez, a.k.a. the mentalist. And just go around Brooklyn trying to read people's minds in a cape.

22:14Joe Santagato:Yeah, I don't know if that would be – I don't think I'd be very good at that. No, just try. I'm freaked out at you doing it. If I figure out I have this skill, I will believe that I'm a form of God. Yeah, he will. And it will immediately go to my head. Yeah, immediately. And I will freak out, and then I'll throw up again. He'll use his powers for villainy. Probably. I've used my powers for good. You would just be rampant theft. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a show on NBC, like, what was this, like, eight years ago now, a little throwback. And one of the bits we did, it was in January, so freaking cold.

22:45Everybody, shout out to, it's called O's Nose. So that's how you know my name, because it rhymes. And you're like, it looks like Oz Nose, but it's O's Nose. So it came out on NBC. Pilot. Didn't get picked up. I don't know how it didn't get picked up. Fuck you, NBC. seriously but we won an emmy i have an emmy award because of that so it came out and what we did we sat next to a chase on christopher street and like seventh i don't know if you know that corner the village cigars corner and i would wait for people to come up and we wouldn't even sign releases first they wouldn't know what was going on and i would say to them excuse me we're shooting a thing for a news channel about cyber security in your atm pin code have you ever shared your atm pin code this is outside at an atm that people are coming up to it's outside they're kind of freezing and they're like no i'm like does your husband know your spouse your boyfriend girlfriend they're like nobody knows.

23:24I go, it's very important. You don't do easy numbers. I go, swipe your card, look at me. And I did their code for them, dude, just the clips, the reactions were so some people didn't understand what just happened. They were just very confused. Like, wait, how did you, you know what? And then other people looked at me and just, just like, just walked away. One dude got scared and screamed and like left and then wouldn't sign a release, but then did 20 minutes later when he came back, he's like, are you the devil? Dude, It was so awesome. Watch that special. But it was so funny. Are you? Frank, just so we understand the takeaway, Frank would have done that and then stolen all the money.

23:57100%.

23:58Joe Santagato:Well, I mean, 16-year-old Frank, 1 ,000%. Current Frank, I have more of a conscience than I heart. You got that YouTube money, baby. Is it like are people just more predictable than we think we are? People are more predictable. people are also able to be um uh like i'm able to influence your behavior so that certain people they'll get to a moment and you know what will happen is they say i changed my mind the last second how could like i even changed my mind i go i knew you changed your mind i got you to change your mind based on the speed at which i was talking and when i slowed down and when i did certain things and when i see how when i look there all of you both look there that's called misdirection when i just grabbed my water both of your eyes re-watched in slow motion looked over year it was looking at you now i'm not looking at the water i'm gonna couch my eyes out it's subtle but a magician learns early on that the hand is not quicker than the eye you think it is but it's not nobody's hands are quicker than your eye but what happens is if i can make you look away at the moment i do the secret move you don't see it yeah right when an elephant is made to disappear the elephant didn't really disappear spoiler alert there's no real santa claus sorry coming for you but what happens is they're making you look at the wrong place at the right time that's what we do so i'm doing that but less with your eyes and more with your brain so i know the way people think i've been studying it for 30 years i was gonna say have you taken like advanced psychological like psychology classes or like sociology classes or things like that to understand the human yes but there are mentalism classes so there are mentalism core concepts because psychology doesn't really help me psychology helps me with group dynamics where people in a group act very differently than when they're alone.

25:40There's certain tricks that I do that you'd be like, oh man, could you do that anytime? No, I couldn't do it if we were alone. And you're like, what? Why? And I go, because you wouldn't behave the same way. You don't realize it, but you will acquiesce to a group in a different way. You will feel peer pressure. You can get people to hurry their decisions. They will feel pressure from people around you. Like the people that are hardest for me. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff. Like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athlete ish stuff like fishing gear for chillin by the creek nice cast fitness apparel to push for higher reps you got this and golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one or a few head to sierra or sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all from athletic to athletic sierra's got it me to do this on are people that are very drunk sometimes uh people that i know this sounds really strange but on the artistic spectrum or that very levels of like Asperger's because they don't have social norms.

26:38So their behavior and their reactions are different. They're out of sync. It's kind of like during COVID, I would do tricks on zoom. And when we have zoom, that's out of alignment. If you're on a riverside, like one of those interviews on a riverside, do you know what I'm talking about? It's like zoom, but it's a slow zoom that captures it. I don't Greg knows it, the producer, but it's like, if you're doing a, I don't know how to explain it, but it's like, it's a zoom interview, but it's not zoom real time. Cause there there's a little lag it's almost impossible for me to do my job because i'm watching you it's like playing a video game with lag got it you're gonna suck you like i just got head shotted while i didn't see it so it's the exact same thing if you're out of out of focus or out of order i can't respond because i'm responding milliseconds i'm watching you every split second to to deduce what you're doing or what you're gonna do and if i'm out of sync by a second it just it tanks i've messed up on those are you like doing that 24 7 no so it's something you could turn on and off fully you have to turn it on.

27:35Okay. You ever meet another mentalist and like kind of have to battle? So I was just like, two straight cats at the end of the alleyway. And then they're just like, ha, ha. Would you know? Like you saw each other. You just sit at a table and neither of us talk and occasionally laugh and occasionally make eye expressions. That's it. I just look at you and I just laugh. And then they look at me and you get serious again. You're like, good one. You're like, well, you didn't say anything.

27:55Joe Santagato:I guess that's kind of a good question though. Would this be something that you could like tag team if there was another mentalist that you felt comfortable working with?

28:04together or there's a couple that have done it there's if you feel like pen and teller does famously do it but it's not really a mentalist one but there's um there's there's there's called codex there's couple acts there's one called mind to mind we'll shout out for them they do it amazing where it's a guy and a girl actually happened to be married but you could be in a different room and she could be blindfolded and anything you hold her look at he says what am i holding right now she's like driver's license you're like what's the number she's like eight five seven how are you doing this so it's it's it's it's an act where one person can send and transmit thoughts to the other i have the opposite literally i can't send my wife anything she's like i don't know what you're thinking any other time she's like you don't know what i'm thinking and i'm just mad at you right now because if you're this good of a mentalist why the hell

28:43Joe Santagato:didn't you take out the trash my brothers are twins and i i i know this uh yeah fraternal twins and this might be because i'm not very you know like woo woo or spiritual or anything but like i i do believe that there is some form of like twin telepathy because i think that's true I'm not kidding. There was a story when we were younger where one of my brothers, like, in the middle of the night had to go to the hospital. And the other one, like, didn't know what was going on. Like, there was no way that they could have known. My parents tell the story. And the one that was home was just inconsolable for no reason.

29:16Joe Santagato:Didn't know the other one was there. And then as soon as they walked back in the door, they were completely okay. And, like, that's where I believe, like, twin telepathy might be a real thing. But it still freaks me out. I so I can tell you it's a weird story so I had a twin who was who died at birth so like a stillborn sorry to hear that thank thank you I didn't know him but my mom I appreciate my mom can only have twins it's some strange condition I don't know how that like I'm not a medical person but that's supposedly it fraternal twin so I have twin sisters but nobody told me that I was a twin until I was 12 years old she never told me it's like kind of a big detail to leave out oh you're a twin so I always talked about like imaginary friend having a twin and it was to the point of creepiness where could I have somehow gleaned this from a hearing story?

30:00But I never knew it was never told to me because they didn't really know how to address it and they thought it was like too traumatic. And so I would always talk about, I have a twin, I have a twin. And like, I would tell people this, but no one was told that I had a twin. And so when she told me, it like all made sense. It was like a puzzle piece that just suddenly clicked. And so I can't explain that the way you talk about twin telepathy, but I feel like have you absorbed his mental powers? I don't know.

30:22Joe Santagato:I was a former twin. So you and I are pretty much two in the same. Yeah. Yeah. So like, yeah, it was. There's not much of a difference between us outside of just some. How are you a former twin? Uh, the twin was gone. At birth? Uh, no, it was, it was pre like, it was like in utero. In utero. So mine was like until a week before the ultrasound was still, it might've been medical malpractice, but we were like in the womb until it was a very shocking death at like, they didn't expect it was yours earlier. But so it was like two, I even had a new name, which my name means brave and strong in Hebrew because I was the one that survived.

30:55My dad was like, it's a battle of the wills. I'm like, that's a creepy way to say it. But you took him out. And so my name was changed to Brave and Strong because I survived when the other one didn't. Got it. Yeah. Wow. I don't know the details. Didn't know we were going down this rabbit hole. Got real somber. Adam Kilch just came in. He's like, how do you know me, bro? Bro, I am honest. I'm not over that. I don't know if I want to be over that. Speaking of childhood, childhood, when can you pinpoint, if I sent you a time machine back, Do you remember meeting Joe for the first time?

31:26Joe Santagato:I can pinpoint it to like a week. So you kind of know a lot when you got – Good Lord. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Adorable. Joe's like, I barely remember you. Yeah, yeah. You see? You see? You see? You see? Do you see? Honestly. Honestly. How do you deal? Wait. So if you can go back in time, you ready? Now, when I say to somebody, pick a name, that's left brain. It's like mathematical. Seeing letters, seeing numbers is left brain. I'm going to make you do this right brain. Close your eyes, and you're going to go right brain. Here's what I mean by that. You're not going to see letters or numbers. I want you to start to see a face of someone where you go back in time to childhood that if I said, guess right now, Joe, I'm giving you three guesses to guess a kid from back in the day that Frank is thinking of.

32:10Boom. Number one, got it wrong. Number two, got it wrong. Number three, you don't even know how many guesses it would take, but he would never guess this kid within his first three guesses, maybe even more. can you at this very moment try to picture this kid's face can you see them in your mind yeah question for you do you know what they look like open your eyes do you know what they look like now have you hung out recently no so you don't even know how they look like now you're kind of

32:31Joe Santagato:just going back to the memory bank i mean i have a rough idea you know it's like you're seeing whatever eight-year-old kid with a beard like you okay now just he's gotten facial hair all right is there any way because i like the haters the haters always say he did research before he got here he must have been googling them. Yo is there any way that I could have researched this in advance and found out who you would have thought of real-time spontaneous? I can't imagine there is a way you could have researched. But even if we looked up everybody how could we know who this would be because you didn't know who you were gonna pick before I got here.

33:05Correct.

33:05Joe Santagato:I have no clue how you could have. So it's not like a researchable thing because you can't research where your mind spontaneously goes. Yeah and I famously have a pretty crazy mind. Crazy mind right? I mean famous episode was talking about drinking pee like nobody's come out yeah riz gods all right here's what i want you to do i want you right now to think of this kid's first name okay now you before counted the letters and you see i narrowed it down because it's how many i mean four letters then i got the name think of this kid's first name yeah think of his last name okay most people if I ask which one is more interesting, they'll go last name because it's just normal.

33:46I think, I think you think the first name is more interesting. Am I right? Or not really? You tell me which one's more interesting.

33:54Joe Santagato:Interesting in what regard? You decide. You're in the eye of the beholder. Do you, which one's more interesting? I would say last name. Last name's more interesting. All right. Now I wonder how common the first name is. Think of the first name. Yeah. And quick, the same way he did it. Pick a letter in the name. Okay. Think of the first letter. Okay. Change. Don't do the first letter. Do a different letter. of the name yeah first name stay with it you got one yeah change your mind again different letter than the first name change it one more time okay he's having trouble see I started I wanted to see I'm having trouble I wanted to see Joe because you're fucking firing off at me when did Frank not know what to do so like again if the name was really long you'd be like alright I got this he started struggling the name right again is another short name I'm trying to feel it out suss it out it feels like it's five or six letters I'm trying to feel this out five or six letters okay he walks through that door right now you look him in the eyes you go dude where have you been?

34:52come here shake my hand

34:57okay and right at that moment you look at him Shane is it Shane?

35:04Gorman Shane Gorman isn't it?

35:06Joe Santagato:yo yo I'm not fucking yo Yo, get the fuck out of here! Yo, get the fuck out of here! Dude, dude, what the mother fuck is going on in here? Frank! Yo, I su - I su - Yo. I was thinking of him. This - I was thinking of him! Yo, just shut the fuck up, dude. Fuck you. How the fuck? Yo, how did like yo how? When was the last time we saw Shane?

35:44I don't fucking know. Legitimately like probably second grade. Just spit all over your face.

35:50Joe Santagato:Yo, I don't know. You gotta move over. We're not centered. You guys flew off camera. I don't care. Move over this way towards me. Yo, that's insane. You know when something pops in your head? You ever wake up from a dream and you wake up from a dream and you go, Dude, and you forget it in like a minute. But right at that moment, you have a dream, and the dream is so weird. And you're like, why do I have this dream? I got to tell somebody about this dream right now. Do you ever have that moment where you're like, this is a crazy dream. I want you to imagine right now. You ready? I'm just like, throw something out.

36:17Crazy. That you have, you see Shane Gorman. Now that he's in your head, you might have a dream. How the fuck did you do that? Imagine you have a dream, okay? And Shane Gorman, you see this kid out of nowhere. You haven't seen him since second grade, okay? And in this dream, I don't know what's going on, but something crazy you know how you have crazy ideas for episodes in this dream you have the craziest idea for an episode one that's juggling around the back here and you go you wake up and you say to joe you go joe i had this dream remember we saw that mentalist i saw i had this dream because i thought of shane gorman in this dream we were and it's nothing weird but like something that's an episode look at me please please please please please close your eyes imagine this is something that doesn't really exist that's just in your brain close your eyes close your eyes

37:07Joe you look you look come over can you see this don't see yeah I don't know about this this is crazy and and you go this would make for a great episode open your eyes spontaneous off the cuff pops you go I didn't even know I would think about this it would make an insane episode what happened in that dream what were you doing say it uh we were like hanging out in a bath What was it? Just what's in the bath?

37:30Joe Santagato:Like clay or mud or something like that. What? Yo, get the fuck out of here. Yo, get the fuck out of here. Yo, yo, no, no, no. Yo, yo, no, no. Call the fucking police. Yo, like, I'm not, yo. I'm fucking serious. I'm serious. Yo, I'm literally, I can't, I, I, I. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not having fun. Timeout. What the fuck is that? That's the idea. I was doing a podcast. I don't know. I'm just trying to think of like something out there. That would be crazy And if we were in just like mud baths Not together You have your bath Okay We have our bath It's a little weird but yeah Yo How The fuck I bet you're gonna get a DM From Shane Gorman Being like bro I'll do a mud bath at you now I I don't even I haven't even seen a picture of him In 20 years Yo I can't tell you Like There is I don't I don't There's literally no explanation for that There's no explanation That's absurd Cause even if you have like, even if you have these like tails or whatever, you're given first and last name.

38:33Joe Santagato:How the fuck? Yo, I don't know how you did that. I shook your hand and I didn't feel anything. That's when I stole your soul. Oh my god. Dude. Give it back. What the fuck? I'm astounded. Wait, you were thinking Shane Gorman too? Yeah. Why? I don't know! And now I don't know! Bro, I'm not in control anymore! I don't know! Bro, this is insane. Alright. I was like, cause you're like, think of someone or whatever, and I was just trying to think of an example like playing along in my head. And you know what's - And I'm making fucking shit! And you know what's weird? I met him the same time that I met him.

39:13Joe Santagato:That I met you. Cause remember how he started off with like a, you guys met, can you pinpoint it down to - Yeah. And it was within the parameters of when we met. there's layers to this one there's layers you're just being quiet over there dude i'm letting you unpack all this what the like the idea that like like the way that i can kind of like make sense of this is like a a sick amount of research and then you know obviously the tells with the whatever but that name i don't even i don't even know if i could find him like i don't know if I don't have him on Instagram I don't either I haven't I haven't seen or spoken to about anything with this kid in you know this is like there's there's no explanation there's no explanation but how would we know that you would have thought of him and then the craziest thing is you said I'm gonna pick somebody he'll never guess either and then jumped in both your heads at the same time that's yeah it doesn't mean I I don't I don't literally I don't like all right I'm back we have some more sponsors but I can tell you already this episode is out of control so So we have Skims, okay?

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43:05Joe Santagato:finasteride and now back to the show did you bring holy water or something because the devil's in the room i'm literally i'm thinking about peeing in my jeans if you piss your pants i'll do it with you in solidarity stand up when you do it i don't know if that would solve anything but i am i mean where do we go from here great question where do we go i am i am at both i am scared and impressed and a little like I want to beat you up. Can you – I can outrun you is the issue. First of all, I saw that. You look like a runner. Yeah, you look like you're a runner. I saw that. You do marathons and ultras.

43:43You did bad water, right? Any bad water? Do you know what that is? I do know bad water. It's hot. What's bad water? Bad water is a great segue here from Shane Gorman. But did you guys pee your pants? I was waiting for that.

43:54Joe Santagato:There's going to be bad water in my jeans in a little bit. I'll tell you that.

44:01That was soft. Bring that in. No, no, no. I don't know what you're going to take next. I don't know what you're going to take next. As soon as our knuckles touch, I get the rest of the info. So, Badwater, you run 135 miles. So, it's kind of a little more than - What the fuck? Yeah, it's like five marathons in a row. More than that. In the hottest place in the world, which is Death Valley, in the middle of the summer. So, when I started the race, it was 124 degrees. So, when you think of Phoenix or Vegas and you're like melting, that's 110. That's cold. compared to this and then you're running on a road so that the heat they take the you know the gun that like measures how your temperature they do yeah on think you can melt it like you can melt rubber on your shoes if you hold them against the road the black asphalt gets over 200 degrees you can cook an egg on the on the hood of your car it will cook so you're supposed to run on the white lines to not melt your shoes and you run 135 miles so so yeah i mean you do stuff like

44:56Joe Santagato:that you keep yourself in good physical shape I assume so like what does that help I think it helps mentally if you're like not feeling well you got a cold or something is that going to like hurt what you do uh you mean for for performing yeah I don't think so I'm pretty my this immune system is strong I have five children the disease is five kids holy shit dude 135 how long did it take you to do that? 28 hours. Non-stop. I slept for about 10 minutes. Why even say that? Just say non-stop. How do you even do that? How old are you both? 34. I knew that. This might be beyond your time. This is your just like 5 years before but old school NES Nintendo.

45:42Oh I got one in my house. Old school Nintendo. The cartridge is not working. So you gotta take it out. You have to blow it and put it back in. Do you know that move? Yeah of course. So I liken it to that with my brain. So I, I at night and my friends will make fun of me and call me like a big pussy because I get very loopy at night if I don't sleep versus I have friends in ultras who can go like two days without sleeping, not necessarily healthy, but they don't, I just become a total bitch at like three or 4am where I'm like, Oh, I'm so tired. Like dude, just keep running. So I have to, if I sleep for even five minutes, it's the Nintendo, put it back in my brain reset.

46:15Yeah. It does this weird reset where I get up and I feel better. and then if you ever, which I doubt you'll do, but if you ever sleep for a day, a night, and then into the next day, the next day your circadian rhythm kicks in and the next morning you kind of feel better even though you haven't really done anything and then the next morning I feel much better to continue running.

46:32Joe Santagato:That's insane. When did you do that? I did that race a long time ago, pre-kids. You got to fact check this. I think 2010 or 11, but I try to do at least 100 miler a year, but my career has been super busy lately. Sierra has all the best active and outdoor brands for the super athletic stuff, like running gear for cruising up the trail. Woo! And the super athletic-ish stuff, like fishing gear for chilling by the creek. Nice cast. Fitness apparel to push for higher reps. You got this. And golf balls priced so you can afford to lose one. Oh! Or a few. Head to Sierra or Sierra.com for the brands you want at the prices that let you do it all.

47:12From athletic to athletic-ish, Sierra's got it. I always do a marathon or a few marathons every year. I'm surrounded by runners. All I'm surrounded by is runners. First of all, I ran seven miles yesterday. That's pretty awesome. This is great. Yeah. 135. 135's cool. You ever do it in the desert? With melting shoes?

47:29Joe Santagato:In Death Valley? You ever, like, as you're, like, coming up behind someone, like, you're going to pass them, you're just like, oh, your high school boyfriend says lunch. Pretty much. And it's like, what the fuck? Dude, four years ago, I ran around Central Park more times in a day than anyone ever had. I broke the record. I did 116 miles around Central Park to raise money for the children. know that right yeah you know you know that you're another problem you're running from something i am oh deep deep deeply so i did that it made the front cover of the new york times i have this thing framed it's pretty awesome and the the takeaway here is when they were writing that story shout out to my buddy adam skolnick who wrote the article another adam he's in the room he called me at mile 84 okay so mile 84 i've been running for you know i don't fact check it like 12 or 13 hours and he calls me while i'm on facetime with him there's about 10 people behind me i guess the name of his first crush while running at 13 hours in 84 miles and he's freaking out like how did you know her name dude i'm like put that in the article i was like i'm scared of you right now how are you doing this while running i figured out the name of his first crush his wife was in the background she's like who the hell's katya you know it was like uh what uh what was the inspiration behind doing the loop so that's i'll keep a long story short but i was gonna run this race, um, in North Carolina and I'd been training and I was all fit.

48:44And then dude, this billionaire calls me, who was a client of mine. And he goes, he called me a week, two weeks before this. I'm supposed to run this race. My two of my buddies are coming from Chicago to cheer me on. And I signed up and everything. And he goes, you know, I want to hire you for a gig that night. I'm like, can't, you know, my manager's like, can't he's, he's booked. He's doing a race. He's like, how much do I have to pay him? They're like, no, no, he's not, he's not going, hung up the phone. This dude did not like the word. No calls back with a new offer calls back at this point.

49:10It became a power struggle hell yeah of just i don't like hearing no so then i tell my manager tell him this amount and she's like that's obscene you know you're gonna ruin the relationship i'm like but i want to go run the race my buddies are coming it's all planned and so she ended up charging half of that amount which is still was the biggest payday i'd ever gotten to date for going in an uber for 10 minutes and right within 30 seconds of her texting him the number he said yes i'm like damn it so it's like the worst feeling to be annoyed but also the best payday you're like at the same time you don't have to struggle with that so a couple days later buddy of mine who actually lives in Williamsburg Brooklyn said um Tom Knight goes you know what man you're so fit why don't you run around Central Park and try to break the record I know that was a thing so I looked it up and a guy named Robbie Ballinger a good friend of mine now had the record of running the most loops on so this is like a thing people do this to see how many loops you can do while Central Park is open from 5 a.m.

50:00to 1 a.m. and then they close the park cops kick you out anyways I I decide to do this I They decide I'm going to do this for charity, for Save the Children. I put up a thing. I've never hit people up for money before. Money piles in, man. We raised over$116 ,000, which is amazing. Didn't you also run 116 miles? I knew that would happen. Yeah, so it worked out. I broke the record, and this all came together where I said, I'm so fit. So I did this a week later. It was exactly four years ago, and now I need a new challenge, man. That same year, I ran from Montauk to Manhattan, and I broke the record of crossing Long Island up by foot.

50:34on the hottest day of the summer, August 4th, I believe it was the single hottest day of the summer. 1010 Winds interviewed me and they were like, dude, you know, it's going to be like 98 degrees, literally the hottest day of summer. They go, are you going to quit? I'm like, quit. I'm like, that makes it so much better. Like something's wrong with you. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Like driving to Montauk. I agree with 1010 Winds. But now anytime my kids are complaining, if we drive from like Montauk back home, they're like, dude, this thing's long. I'm like, you don't know the half of it, bro. When I was a kid, I ran.

50:59Yeah. You're like the worst with I think that probably. Like back in the day, it was like, I used to walk two miles uphill. You're like, I ran 136 miles.

51:07Joe Santagato:Well, you said you started doing this around like 13? 13 is when I started. So, were you just like cheating on tests? I can neither confirm nor deny these allegations, Frank Alvarez. I'll tell you, a 13-year-old Frankie, I am fucking cheating on every test that I have. Every single one. You like look down at this question, A, B, C, D, and then you look at the teacher and you say, oh, can you just look at these tests for me look at me b got it yeah i got it yeah i came up with b in my head what i said b when he was saying a b c d all right well this is this is i'm just like astounded honestly i am do you run every day i don't run every day there's people who have streaks and they do that i have too much there's the the between career uh remaining married while traveling and not you know juggling five kids and it's very and i have two kids that are still in diapers even though my two-year-old is being potty trained right now so uh we have like a just a staring match of me staring at her being like please don't crap on the rug no we have we have a 11 month old and a two-year-old oh wow there's just a lot of a lot of kids so the short answer is once the kids are sleeping i can get back into a rhythm of like running in the mornings and when i travel shockingly i run way more because i'm gone when i'm home it's hard to sneak it in like this morning i got back yesterday at 1 a.m i was in austin texas for a gig another podcast and then uh i got back at 1 a.m i was like debating can I wake up at 5.30, but it just didn't happen to go run.

52:33So I feel like a loser this morning, Joe. Thanks for bringing that up.

52:35Joe Santagato:You wake up at 5.30 to run. I woke up at 5.30 to play MLB The Show. There's a clear – there's only so much similarity, so many similarities between us. We're pretty much the same person. Yeah. How many miles will you do on any given day? I would love – my comfort run is going to run 20 miles. That's what I enjoy the most. Fucking hate this. I like to run minimum 10 miles where I don't feel like I really did anything, but everybody's different. Their bodies are different. Do you consider yourself a very disciplined person, and does that have to do anything with your— I'm just so rabidly ADHD, but the running takes my mind, and it slows it down.

53:14And right now, because I have so much media, I'm—when is this coming out? Do we know? You tell us! You tell us! So depending on when it comes out, April 25th, I'm hosting the White House Correspondents Dinner. Congratulations. Thank you. And so President Trump is coming for the first time ever while in office. He's never done it while president. And so it's going to be hopefully a big thing. And if I read his mind.

53:35Joe Santagato:He's going to lose his mind with you. Yeah. I hope he throws up like you were about to. This is gross. What was I going to say? I need time to come up with stuff. Like our finale, the thing I'm going to do for you at the end, I came up with last night on the plane from Austin at 1130 p.m. Thank you. Where it just, the puzzle pieces came together. you watch the usual suspects great classic you know when he like drops the glass and it says kobayashi and like the whole thing kaiser soze and kevin spacey just like he stops the limp sorry for everyone who hasn't seen the movie just ruined everything and he just you realize and your mind that's what i like i like those moments where your mind is blown you're freaked out oh my god but then at the end there's this shock ending that you can't believe that is that's like my chef's kiss when it comes to mentalism.

54:20Joe Santagato:Has anyone ever like offered you money to, to like you to tell them how you do it? Many people like the FBI. Uh, Oh yeah. You could be, you could be a great, like with the CIA or something like that. I can't really say whether the CIA has reached out. I'm not going to say that publicly, but FBI law enforcement, many, many lawyers. Do you think you could actually like you would be an asset there? So, okay. So I, I, it's very important because I, what I do, it's very important ethics. So like right off the jump. And I usually say this, I'm not supernatural. I don't pretend to have psychic abilities.

54:51And the key ways to know that is that what I'm doing is learnable, repeatable, and it's based in science, which means there's a method I could explain. Now it's important to understand why I'm saying that. Learnable means I could teach you to do mentalism. There are books or videos. Most psychics cannot teach you how to be a psychic. There isn't a workshop that's like, okay, now you can talk to your dead grandma. It's not repeatable. Right now, talk to my grandma. I want to ask these three questions. Give me these three answers. Very rarely can any psychic do that for you effectively. And then lastly, what's the science?

55:17I don't know the science behind being a psychic. Am I telling you that psychics don't exist? No, I'm being agnostic. Cause I think I'd be like a bit of an arrogant prick if I said no psychics exist. Cause a lot of people have experiences that I can't explain. But when I've been around most psychics that I've seen witnessed it myself, I can explain how they're doing it for the most part. Like I can see the tricks that they're doing that overlap my tricks. Now there may be psychics that when you tell me they do it and they do it and they're doing a real thing and I don't know how, but I can recreate many of what psychics do with what I do.

55:49Does that make sense? Yeah. So that's a long answer to give you like a disclaimer, an asterisk of these are not superpowers as much as Frank wishes. They were sorry. Why can't they be? Could I help you? If you're an FBI agent profile people, I think that I could help you with certain things that aren't what you think. They wouldn't be micro expressions. They're not body language reads because I'm doing my thing in a very specific specific situation built on entertainment, not built on giving away somebody who committed a crime that might kill you later. Different environments. But the same tactics that I use of building rapport, building trust, incremental changing, then moving you back, watching benchmarks.

56:29So the way people behave, if you observe them over and over and over, that's why interrogations, you do them over and over and you wear people down, you can start to see patterns of what works and when they're telling you the truth or lying the same thing applies in what i do in a certain way but not for nefarious purposes does that make sense so could i come in and help the fbi in a certain way i believe that maybe i could but the percentage isn't what you think you'd be like oh man you're gonna solve crimes i'm gonna give you 90 advantage i might give you single digit percentages because i'm bringing it from a different lens of how mentalists work which again is done for entertainment i am not claiming to be the world's best body language reader and a lot of what I'm doing is deception.

57:08But a lot of what hostage negotiators do is also built on deception. Of course we're going to get you a jet. Of course we're going to get you this. You want pizzas? We'll send them in. You're lying in a certain way to get people to believe you, establish trust, and then con them. I'm an honest con man. Right. Like when I guess Shane Gorman, I'm not stealing money out of your bank account while I'm doing it. I'm just giving you a fun moment that has you throwing up and Joe peeing his pants lightly. Honest con man. He's writing it down Honest con man

57:38Joe Santagato:I guess you kind of answered that question I was going to say like I think famously There's a story of a guy that like Forgot his bitcoin password I can only do that if he knows it Gotcha There's no way that I can get it if you don't know it Because that wouldn't be the skill that I have But you legitimately If you ask Someone to think of something You can like read it Typically yes within parameters, but it's not like anything. But I like to lean into what people like. Where are we at, Trey? Are we entering finale territory? Yeah, I'd be down for it. I don't know. Rattle off a few more questions.

58:16Let Frank kill.

58:16Joe Santagato:No, this is really interesting because, again, I'll hit you with my best shot. Dude, just don't. I have a question. Full transparency. You have a question? I have a question. Oh, okay. Antonio. Love that. What was the weirdest thing someone attributed your power to? too. So I, I, I like to do things. What really, uh, shout out to Greg, by the way, who has a book over here, going to pick that one up, but I have a book. I'm not trying to hawk it, but I want the reason I'm telling you this is because the book tells you a lot of the core skills that I use, because if you're watching this, you're entertained, I hope.

58:46But the reason I wrote a book had nothing to do with teaching you how to be a mentalist. There's books on that. There's videos. That's not like, that's a 0.0001 % of the population. There are certain skills that I have that even if I quit being a mentalist tomorrow, I could use in any career that I have because there's certain overlapping skills of like, how do you win people over? How do you become memorable? How do you have superhuman confidence? Walk into a room, perform in front of 13 ,000 people at MSG, right? You 20 years ago would have probably crapped your pants. Frank still occasionally craps his pants.

59:17But what I'm saying is - Let's make it very clear I don't. We don't know. Sharting is totally within the realm.

59:22Joe Santagato:Why am I sharting? He's right. He has to be right. He doesn't know. I don't chart. He's right. You're wrong on that. Frank, I can detect deception from a mile away. That was a hard sneeze earlier. Wet sneeze. So when you ask me and you say that question of like, say it again. What do they attribute the skills to? So the skill is the same of guessing a number, a name, but I repackage it in a certain way. So here's what I'll do. I will do something memorable that the other person will always talk about. talking about your childhood best friend is way better than if I told you pick a card and I guess ace of diamonds it's just not the same level of emotional connection I will meet people and if they're they're pregnant like a woman's pregnant I'll be like do you know the name you're going to name your child she's like oh and I will guess the name before they even do and they'll literally keep it and put it in a scrapbook and I've met people who 10 years later like this is Dylan you guessed his name and I'm like I know that and I look at him like Dylan you were almost about to be Trevor and she's like how did you know that was the other name right and she's like and the husband's like, dude, get away.

1:00:24He's like, stay away from my wife and my kid. And so those types of things, they're attributing a power to something that's different than what I'm actually doing. Also never underestimate the power of a guess, which is you miss every shot you don't take. So I've done certain things that I can't explain. I don't know how they worked. I don't believe I'm psychic. I don't believe it's super natural. I don't think it's twin telepathy, but I've, I've iterated so much and I've done stuff that sometimes I get a feeling and I trust my instincts. Do you play ping pong ever? No. So the reason I mentioned ping pong is when you're in a good rally, you're not even thinking.

1:00:58You're just acting. You're just like, dude, I don't even make that shot. If I may try to make that shot again a hundred times, I wouldn't make it. But right there in the moment, I just made it. So there's that weird thing where you get in this flow state where I can sometimes nail things that I can't explain to you later. I don't know how. How confident are you going into like this last trick that we're going to do? How confident are you that you're going to get it right? I'm not 100%. Okay. There's too many moving pieces right now. Everything I've done so far is like I can juggle three balls, but not an innuendo.

1:01:29Like just, uh, I can juggle three and I can juggle four. That's like the amount of clown tricks I can do for my kids. I've tried learning juggle five, but it's like really tough and I miss or closing your eyes and juggling three right now. I'm going into territory of closing my eyes and juggling three because you're going to see there's all watch this. I like scenarios. Scenarios are interesting because that's where your mind starts to go. now you guys are both into sports yeah right how did i know that he's wearing a jets hat he's like how did you know that so when i walked in here how much time we had we had like two minutes when i walked in you were all freaking out you're like did you give him the door code i didn't give him how's that was in here we were legitimate and we talked about while we were getting mic'd up i want them to know the the precursor because people go earlier like oh is this set up there's no setup i got here right before but you mentioned that you had thrown a pitch at the at the padres game right We were talking about you should throw a pitch.

1:02:18We talked about it a little bit. We talked about how bad my pitching skills might be. I want you to imagine, because the conversation always goes when you watch sports TV, ESPN. We were talking about who are the greats. Who are the greats of sports? All different sports, dead or alive. And you start comparing. You start doing the, in my day, would this person, how would they size up? So here's what I want to try. I want you to imagine, okay, that you're going to go first.

1:02:42Joe Santagato:Okay. And I'm going down the gamut of sports. I football, basketball, baseball, hockey, soccer, like all different sports, boxing. Like I'm watching your eyes trying to react. But one of the greats walks through this door. You see this person walk up right in front of you. I'm giving you a marker and I want you to hold it under the table. So there's no way I can see and write down his name. It's a guy, right? It's a guy. Write down his name, but don't, don't let Joe see it. Okay. I'm going to turn. I'm going to cover my eyes. but I want you to write down who you went with that you physically saw going through.

1:03:19Whoa, I'm going to close my eyes. Write down under the table. First and last name. Joe, make sure there's no way I could see this. You can't see it either, can you, Joe? No, I don't know. Okay, and as soon as you're done, keep it in your lap or better yet, put it against your chest so there's no way I could see it or put it in your lap just so we know you can't change your mind.

1:03:34Joe Santagato:Okay, I'm good. And swear to God above that this was an absolutely random choice that you made. I did not tell you who to pick. Like, right, we had all those sports, but you could have chosen from any of them. Dead or alive. Hold on now. Joe, Joe, at this moment, I pose the same question to you, but you don't decide who walks in this room until I snap my fingers. You don't decide until that moment. Deal? Okay. Okay. You do not know who it's going to be, do you? No. Okay, watch, watch. It's only when I snap my fingers right now. You look through, and right there, snap. That's when you make the decision.

1:04:06You see this guy right there, and you go, oh, my God. Now, in your mind, look at this person. Look at me. Okay. All right. Think of his first name. Think of his last name. Now, he now knows how I do the stuff with the names, how long the names are. So he kind of has a, oh, look how he's getting tense. He's like, oh, God, what do I do? Don't do it. He doesn't know what to do. Joe's just mad. He's like, I don't know what to do with my hands. All right. Think of the first name. That felt short and quick. That felt like one syllable. Jump to the last name. on two syllables. I said dead or alive, dead or alive, dead or alive.

1:04:48Think of the last name, just the last name. Think of the first letter, the last name. It's not breathing. Go to the second letter, the last name, the last reaction. When you say a vowel, I want you to understand the vowels, there's five of them, A, E, I, O, U. When you say a vowel, you have to open your mouth phonetically. Somebody who reads lips, you know, they watch, you have to open your mouth watch a e i o you can't try to say an e without opening your mouth you can't do it you were trying not to the last name the second letter because i was watching you it's not a vowel is it it's not correct because i was watching trying to keep your mouth closed and when i said greats you know what you went with you went great it's his go are you thinking of Tom Brady walking in this room?

1:05:36I fucking hate this. Be for real. Be for real. Are you thinking of Tom Brady? For real. For real. And you ready? I said dead or alive. And I know, tell me just so I know, what is your favorite sport to watch? Football. It's football is your favorite sport, but the power of suggestion. Why did I mention you throwing the ball at the Padres? Why'd I do that? Was that for fun? Nothing's for fun, Frank, because I planted a thought in your head when you were debating, you were, you were, when I said dead or alive, you didn't decide right when you said and I snapped you saw Tom Brady but moments before that you were about to go with somebody else dead baseball Lou Gehrig was the other person you were about to say am I right am I right that was the other one in your head yeah what the fuck is happening what yo how the fuck is that no I'm not and then right over here right over here you you know I think I think I think I think Frank wanted to stump me Frank even though he said I picked it at random there's no way I think you want to stump me so I don't think you did football because I said jet even though it's random you're not doing football and then you looked at this man and I'm not saying it's a weird way but you found him handsome good looking guy exactly exactly there's nothing wrong with that and you looked at him and in your head you know how if I picture Tiger Woods I wear I always picture wearing a hat you don't see Tiger without a hat you saw this guy with a headband Rafael Nadal turn it around is that what you wrote down is it rafael nadal rafael nadal yo get the fuck out of here dude joe joe let me ask you a weird question can i ask you a weird question do you know rafael nadal's birthday do you know it no that'd be super weird if you did my arena agreement you could have picked it grab your phone this continues i feel like crying for some reason i don't know like i'm like i'm I'm gonna throw up.

1:07:26This is like, okay. Google it, Google it. I'm just so curious. What is Rafael's birthday? Rafael Nadal's birthday. You could Siri it, whatever you want.

1:07:39I'm not gonna guess it. I could have Googled that. Grab me the marker, please. The marker, please.

1:07:44Joe Santagato:What's his birthday? Yo, get the fuck. Do you want me to tell you or do you want me to just know it? No, no, tell us. What month and day? Month is June. Day is three. Does that have some bearing to you? Not that I know of. Okay, okay. So June 3rd, you're a football fan? Fuck, I'm involved, yeah. Let's piece this together. 6-3, June 3rd. Do you agree with that number? 6-3. First person you picked, Tom Brady. What's his jersey number? 12. 12, that's right, TV 12. Lou Gehrig, what's his jersey number? Four. Is it four? I believe it was four. Do you want to fact check or is it? I'll fact check it, but I'm 90 % sure it's four.

1:08:19Famous Yankees player, first baseman. I can't think of anything. I'm pretty sure because the two biggies, we got right, We got Mickey Mantle seven. Yes, it was four. 12, four, six, three. Does that mean something to you? What the fuck is that? Does that mean something to you, Joe? No. No? Rafael Nadal, I said birthday. His birthday is June 3rd. That is his favorite day of the year, I assume, right? But birth date, you only have one. A birth date is the month, day, and year that you're born. Right? You see what I'm saying? Joe, 12 ,463. Gentlemen, take a listen here. birth date is the day you're born what was the date 12 ,463 days ago it was Tuesday February 25th 1992 92.

1:09:08Oh my god. That's my fucking birthday and the day!

1:09:17Joe Santagato:Yo, I'm gonna have a heart attack. What? How can that possibly be? Wait a minute. God, I'm gonna throw up. Fucking call an ambulance. 911. Help!

1:09:36Yo. Yo, also I'm old.

1:09:41Joe Santagato:12 ,000 days, fuck. I don't even have a word to say. Yo, I'm not kidding. Yo, that's insane. That's insane. I'm glad I wasn't on the receiving end of that because if I were you, I would go home and pray. I don't know what I believe in, but pray to something.

1:10:04What can you say? What can you say after that? Wait, wait, wait.

1:10:07Joe Santagato:This was my birthday fucking and there's no I don't know man. Congratulations. You have done something that no one has probably ever been able to do. We are absolutely speechless and dumbfounded. You found our dumb. Yo, I am I don't really know how that's possible. There's even more bad water in Joe's pants right now. Oh my god, you have no idea. It's in my socks right now. So just to make sure that everyone that is watching understands, there is no conceivable way that he could have guessed my person at random, his people at random, and then making it do that is. Like, I'm like, okay, like I'm thinking of Tom Brady.

1:11:03That's not that crazy. That's not a crazy thing. whatever I get Tom Brady I'm like cool finale I don't know about that I like Shane Gorman more than you I thought of Rafael Nadal Rafael Nadal's crazy

1:11:20Joe Santagato:I'm gonna congratulations thanks boys that was unbelievable I don't know I I I'm I want it I can't what do I say nothing there is nothing to say they're befuddled these guys talk for a living and they are done i got nothing man i got really i got nothing that's that's incredible i want to throw what is with that's a weird reaction i don't know why has anyone ever thrown up because of something like this they a lot of people have cried yeah definitely some people have lightly peed their pants right uh some people definitely strangle me i don't know about the throwing up but maybe that would be great to get on camera that is shocking dude how i famously have only thrown up twice in the last 20 years wait you came up with this trick do you throw up out of your mouth and nose or just your mouth it hasn't happened enough to be able to make oh yeah you've like twice in your life yeah that's it i mean not in my entire life but in the last 20 years twice you never threw up from drinking too much one time wow one time did you ever throw from drinking come on now dude yeah yeah it's called my whole 20s yeah uh i can't think we gotta get i've just thrown up from running a bunch of times too that i bet did he throw up when you were in a video of me in Greece throwing up for nine hours straight that went viral.

1:12:35And then my friend making fun of me the whole time. It is quite funny. How do you throw up for nine hours? I don't know. Something messed up my stomach. I couldn't keep any food down. And then we just kept running and throwing up. Oh, you were running while this is. Oh, yeah. I was running 153 miles. Okay. What's your resting heart rate? It's about 42. That's good. 42? Are you alive? Yeah.

1:12:56Joe Santagato:What the fuck is that? That's mine when I'm asleep, probably. 42. What are you pacing at these days? What are you pacing at running yeah i don't know not that fast like i it varies i run like 7 30 8 30s okay i mean that is fast but yeah i don't know if you're gonna be like oh 4 30 oh fuck you i just pace kenyon that's pretty much it i mean that's a pretty good pace at what accuracy i'm not putting you on the spot here but what accuracy would you say that you can guess if someone's thinking of a number between one and ten pretty high really yeah i mean that's a cool we're not gonna put you right Yeah, he fucking did this Guess the number between 1 and 10 Yeah, I don't Honestly, fuck 1 and 10 You must have the three star Michelin chef to make Chef Boyardee Yeah, yeah Yeah, exactly What the fuck?

1:13:41Joe Santagato:You must be absolutely awful to play rock, paper, scissors with Pretty bad What am I going to throw out right now? Rock

1:13:53Yo You don't want a three shot Do people, when they like recognize you on the street They're like, guess my pincoast So shockingly, no people are pretty cool about it um it's very funny i had one guy who we were on we were at jfk this guy's gonna hear this shout out and it was like so we literally were going on escalators opposite directions of each other yeah do you understand so we're moving apart and i'm texting because i'm trying to get i'm not even texting i'm trying to get like an uber because i just got from a flight and he goes yo and and i'm like and i don't even does he say my name right he goes yo yo and i'm like yeah and i turn around all the way up there what's my pin code i go what he goes Knew you couldn't get it Loser Fraud He gave exactly Three seconds What's my pin code I'm like I don't know that he's talking to me Do you understand this Yeah And then I go Knew you were a loser Yeah I'm not kidding I grabbed it up so hard Whoever you are That was a great heckle

1:14:45Joe Santagato:Dude last night I texted them That's the only time it's ever happened Last night I texted them Like I kind of Like want to change my pin code Coming into this Can I plug something Absolutely Alright everybody You can see me in action. May 2nd, I'm at The Wynn in Las Vegas. Tickets are up for sale right now. Go to my Instagram. Go to my social at OZTheMentalist, at OZTheMentalist. If you are East Coast-based, basement yard, baby, the Borgata in Atlantic City, June 5th. Wow. So come see me at the Borgata, June 5th, May 2nd, The Wynn. Amazing. Dude, thank you so much for coming on. This has been amazing.

1:15:18I am not. One more plug, if you can. July, New York City. I'm shooting my Netflix special. Here, local, hometown, baby. So everybody come. We're shooting a Netflix special. Going to be two shows back to back. Come get tickets for that show. It's going to be incredible. Awesome. Not only are you going to be in it, but you might be on Netflix for everyone to see worldwide. I'm coming.

1:15:38Joe Santagato:Congratulations. You guys come. Shane Gorman comes. Adam Kiltz come. Everybody. I am so susceptible to this kind of stuff. I'm going to make the special. I don't know, man. I'm a little. This is amazing. This is unbelievable. Truly. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming. what a crazy thing dude thank you so much for being on go follow him oz the mentalist on instagram tiktok facebook everything everywhere oz the mentalist i'm already in your feed you've seen me with sports teams yeah now top of the pyramid right here frank and joe are thoroughly freaked out yeah dude crazy but yeah thank you so much thanks for watching we'll see you guys next time bye

1:16:25. Fall has never looked or tasted this good. Sweetgreen's Fall Harvest Menu is back with seasonal favorites dressed to impress and made to be devoured.

1:16:38Joe Santagato:Warm roasted sweet potatoes, crisp apples, maple glazed Brussels, and crave-worthy flavors in the Autumn Harvest Bowl, maple glazed salmon plate, and roasted bacon Brussels side. the season's most desirable menu has returned to Sweetgreen, featuring fall's best dressed. Make your move. Order on the Sweetgreen app.