Celebrity Stylist: How To Stand Out, Style Celebrities & 10-min Morning Fashion Upgrade (Rachel Zoe)

0:00Rachel Zoe:I look this up. I'm like, I'm done. Like, I'm never going to work again. There is no margin for error in this situation. You're Rachel Zoe.

0:06Sophia:You have a huge brand. You've been on The Real Housewives. You had your show for years. But take me back to that breakout moment.

0:11Rachel Zoe:I got my first break from Tommy Hilfiger. That was a pivotal part of my life. And I'm like, why did you give me this chance? He's like, because I knew you could do it. I was like, but I didn't know I could do it. He's like, well, that's the point. You know, young people that are like, oh, we have your book in my fashion class or I'm learning about you in a textbook and how to be a stylist. That is literally the greatest honor of my career. I knew that I never wanted to be a nine to five at a desk. I made more in my first job than I made in a year. The biggest mistake of young people in general is that, hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and welcome to The Burnouts.

0:40Rachel Zoe:When I started, when I, I mean, God, I mean, I was your age. Well, it was literally right when I graduated college and I didn't know what I was going to do. And I was a sociology, psychology major. And when I realized I had to go to more school to do that, I was like, no, because I really, it was like, I did really well in school, but I didn't enjoy being a student at all. I didn't like people telling me what to do. I didn't like telling me, telling me what I had to learn and how I had to learn it. That really always bothered me. And I always wanted to work. And, um, and basically I got a job through a friend of a friend as a fashion assistant at a magazine at the time that was like 17.

1:15Rachel Zoe:It was called YM and I worked there and then I went freelance literally at 25 years old. And, um, I got my first break from Tommy Hilfiger, which I've, I've talked about a lot. And that was a pivotal part of my life and career because it really just jump-started me into, it would have taken me so much longer, I think, because I didn't have the confidence in myself that he had in me. I made more in my first job than I made in a year doing what I was doing. And so at that point, I said, okay, I want to do this, not just for the money at all, but it was more because I got to have my hands in so many different things.

1:50Rachel Zoe:And so that part of being a stylist was always very exciting to me. It was the people that I met every day. I knew that I never wanted to be a nine to five at a desk. I knew that was not for me. Corporate America is just not for me. And I needed to be creative. And I'm a people person.

2:07Sophia:how did you originally get in touch with Tommy and then also what would you say like if you were 25 again and you were starting as I am I am sorry sorry taking away your success if you were starting

2:19Rachel Zoe:again what would you do the biggest mistake of young people in general is that they have this like I want to be you know I want to achieve this by 25 if I don't do this by 28 if I don't have my first kid by 28 or 29. If I'm not married, I'm going to die. Like I never did any of that. It was like my life. And even now in real time, there's no like, there's no that. I don't do that. And I find that that really, that really can damage you internally because you're setting these markers and times on your life that just aren't realistic, right? Because you'll make bad decisions. Or if you don't hit those goals and those, those marks, you're going to be like, you're going to feel bad about it.

3:02Rachel Zoe:And so I would say for me, to go back to your first part, I would say Tommy, I met Tommy because his brother Andy was running a showroom at the time that was like Tommy Jean's, like it was this kind of younger line than his. And his was more like a, his was like the luxury line, right? And Andy, I would go pull from him all the time as an editor and I would pull for the different like pop stars and actors that I was working with. And Andy and I got to be close. And so when I went freelance, I guess Andy told Tommy that I that he thought I was a great stylist or that whatever he told him. And then so Tommy one day called me into his office and I was like, what?

3:43Rachel Zoe:I was like, you know, I'd like seen him and, you know, it was like Ralph Lauren. It was like, you don't talk to them, you know, and he called me into his office and he was like. so my brother tells me you're really talented he's like I can already tell you're really talented like I just because I ask him now because we're such good friends and I'm like why did you give me this chance he's like because I knew you could do it I was like but I didn't know I could do it he said well that's the point you know and he said I'm gonna hire you I want to hire you for a job the first week is in Austin Texas with like it was like 10 of the hottest young actors at the time shooting the Tommy Jeans campaign.

4:22Rachel Zoe:And then the following week, you're going to fly to LA, we're going to take over the Griffith Observatory, and we're going to recreate the White House. And I'm such a control person. I was like, there is no margin for error in this situation. If I look this up, I'm like, I'm done. Like, I'm never going to work again. And I did the second part with like, it was like 20 of the biggest male and female supermodels, which at that time, supermodels were the biggest celebrities ever. And you know, now they are, but it was, it was like, anyone you can name honestly and um and it ended up I mean I think I had 10 panic attacks on that shoot but like it ended up being the most pivotal thing in my life because I ended up doing such big things after that and it just literally blew from there and you know I think I didn't have a day off for like 15 years truthfully like it was every weekend like a Sunday was a Monday it didn't matter I just worked what's the greatest length you've gone to for a client I mean it's just you do whatever I've gone in the car and like laid them down and held the dress so that when they got onto the carpet it was perfect so so lots of lots of things we've changed in some dark crazy places to like you know if their dress ripped and we had to do a quick change and jump in a car and and i could go i could literally go on for a moment and what do you think separates a good stylist from a great stylist that you're not driven by what you're hired for i was never i I didn't care.

5:46Rachel Zoe:Like my agents would be like, oh, you're being hired for three looks. I would do like 13 because they would be like, oh, you know, I have to fly here. I have to go to this like premiere, but that's not part of the thing. I'd be like, OK, like let's just but you're going to be seen. So let's just have a great look. So whether it was a casual look of them, you know, going to the airport or walking to the hotel or whatever it was, I dressed them for every part of where they were visible. and I didn't care what I was being paid. Like I was being paid well. I was paid really well for a lot of things, but there was a lot of things that I was not paid well for, but I didn't, I treated them the same.

6:24Rachel Zoe:And I think the minute that you become a stylist, if you are looking at the clock or you're looking at dollars, I just don't think you're gonna win at that. I just don't. If you play that role, like I'm only doing what I'm paid for. I've always had a hard time with that concept. I know that seems weird. That would like therapy, right? You're sitting in a room with someone who is seemingly digging into your life and this really personal moment. And then it's like 45 minutes later, they're like, time's up. It's like, wait, don't you care? Or is this for money? Like it's, you know what I mean? So I really, I struggle with that.

7:00Rachel Zoe:I struggle with that. And I think I never looked at it that way. And visually and creatively, what do you think really makes a great stylist? Visually, creatively is looking not at what your style is. look at what's best for the client because you can put your personal spin on it, right? Your touch, but you also have to look at your client and say, okay, if your client is the polar opposite style is you, you have to style for them, not for you. Like if they don't wear gold jewelry and I love gold jewelry, I'm not going to put them in gold jewelry. So you have to, you have to get in their mind.

7:33Rachel Zoe:You have to take your expertise and add that, but they still have to be them, you know? So I think that's what it is. And stylists that can really have a very diverse group of clients and dress them as such, you know, dress them differently.

7:50Sophia:What do you do? I'm always curious about this. I was talking to a friend who's an interior designer. Like, if the nephiant you have has really bad taste and they're like, hey, I only want to wear, you know, like mesh neon orange. Do you go with it or at a certain point do you have to push back?

8:05Rachel Zoe:For me, what happened was a lot of people would start out going, I don't wear one shoulders. I don't wear jewelry. I don't whatever. And by like the third or fourth fitting, they would ask for the jewelry first and be like, let's build the outfit around jewelry. Or if it doesn't go that way and you're just so far apart, I would just, I would say I'm not the right stylist for you. there were major major major celebrities like pop stars and really successful people that wanted to hire me in that day and I would be like I'm not the right stylist for you because I know what you want and I'm not really great at that you know and I think for me I was very clear on where I could add value and also where I might not be the best fit you know so and also for me it was a lot about

8:52Sophia:personality you know if you tell a client if they look bad like if i put something on i'm like hey rachel like don't i look awesome in this do you have to tell people like i know um i wouldn't say it that way i would i would jen garner and i used to have this joke she used to look at me and she

9:09Rachel Zoe:like i love this one it's so comfortable i'd be like good and she would like me and go i'm taking it off. And I'm like, no, it looks great. She's like, you hate it. I'm removing it. I'm like, I don't hate it. You can absolutely wear that. And she's like, it's comfortable. I'm like, great. She goes, okay, just tell me what you want me to wear. So it just, you have to, it depends on the client, you know what I mean? Your comfort level and how you kind of communicate to each other. I wouldn't ever say if they loved it that I hated it, but it would just be like, okay, let's tweak this. It's not my favorite.

9:42Rachel Zoe:I think we can do better, you know, but it's, it's very hard when they really love something. And sometimes there was a few cases where I had to really just throw my hands in there. I couldn't really do anything. That was hard. It was very hard. Very hard. I can tell you studied psychology because you're so great at communicating. And I'm sure that's a huge part of the job. And that's kind of something I was curious about is because you're also dealing with really famous high leverage relationships, how do you go about navigating those when you are talking about something as personal as style?

10:14I mean, when I I was styling, it was, it was absolutely therapy sessions every single day.

10:20Rachel Zoe:There was no client that I didn't have in a very close relationship that I didn't know everything about their life. You know, we really, we spent on a press tour, you spend such an exorbitant amount of time with someone. And as a stylist, it's like, it's not just hair and makeup where you're like jumping and jumping out, like styling. It's like, we're in hours and hours and hours of fittings. And I mean, they're naked. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, it's real talk. Like, it's where it's you bury your soul a lot of the time. And of course, some more than others. But like, I had very, very close relationships with most of my clients.

10:56Rachel Zoe:And, and there was a lot of psychology, you know, involved for sure. And I used to say that all the time. I used to say like, because you were like, you're a psych major, you didn't go to like FIT or Parsons. I'm like, no, I'm like, I didn't know I was getting in fashion. I didn't know that I could make a job out of something I loved so much because I theoretically started styling when I was like eight years old. I just didn't know it was called styling. But I would argue that I definitely used psychology every minute of my career, truthfully, because you're navigating relationships. Psychology is just understanding people's minds and navigating relationships and how people react and how they feel.

11:34Rachel Zoe:You have to be able to read a room when you walk into it, right? And more importantly, read the client, you know? So, and then, you know, there's a lot of insecurities and all the things and people go through hard breakups just like us and all these things. And you have to really be sensitive to that and kind of know what days you can push and when you can't, you know?

11:59how do you factor in those different emotional conversations or emotional states into how people look like do you do a post-breakup haircut yeah i mean there's there's clients that were going

12:10Rachel Zoe:through stuff at the time that would like come in and it was gnarly public breakups like really bad and they would come in and they had been platinum blonde and like came in with like black hair like literally and be like this is who I am right now I just want to wear black through this whole tour okay cool reset reset reset you know do you help people do the rebrand I did yeah I mean I don't style anymore but I mean I did I mean I I would definitely do that and we used to talk about it we would have serious like meetings about it who do you want to be like what was really challenging was when they were actually really happy people but they were promoting a really dark film that was really sad because you don't want to necessarily come out on the carpet in like a beaded blush gown, you know, when you're talking about like your sister that died of cancer.

12:56Rachel Zoe:Do you know what I mean? It's like, so those things were very, I found those really challenging a lot. But yeah, I mean, but to go back to the brand thing, I mean, I think coming out of styling, once I had my kids, my second child, I think I was still working with Jennifer Lawrence and Anne Hathaway and maybe one or two others. And I just remember having to leave like, a week after I had him and just jumping into like hours of fittings and getting on a plane. And I was just like, it was a lot, you know.

13:27Sophia:What would you say for someone without a stylist? Like, what are, you know, three things someone can do today to improve their wardrobe or the way they dress or show up with confidence?

13:35Rachel Zoe:You know, I think I have always believed in a uniform of your favorite things, right? So in your closet, you should have variations on your favorite things, right? So if you're someone who loves denim, what's your favorite denim? Have those five pairs. Okay. I'm someone who my denim is like a black pant, like a black, like flared pant. I have, I'm not even just to New York for four days. I think I bought 12 pairs, suede, velvet, leather, knit, you know, like I, that is my go-to. So like, I believe that you should have the things that you know you love. They work on your body. It's your uniform.

14:14Rachel Zoe:These four jackets, your favorite black leather jacket, whatever. And those things should always be your go-tos, your favorite gold necklace, your favorite pair of hoops, whatever that is that you know if you have to leave in 10 minutes, like you know all of these things work. You're not standing in this massive sea of clothes that's just staring at you like how do I mix and match this, right? My God. I think that that's a really good segue because we actually were talking about this in our solo episode of a lot of getting dressed is also removing cognitive friction from your day of if you just have 10 pairs of jeans and 10 sweaters that you like then you can just grab them and then you're good for the day which is what I do now which is really funny that you said that I just was like okay here are jeans I like sweaters I like I don't need to think about it it's your uniform it's your go-to you know it works like And that's, to me, it's like you want to be the least stressed about getting dressed.

15:10Rachel Zoe:And I find that 95 % of people, especially women, are stressed about what they're wearing every day. And stressed, obviously, different levels and what they're going to. But it's like, oh, it's that thing. And if you think about to when we were little, if you didn't have a school that was a uniform, was when I think about the only thing I stressed about, like in middle school and high school was like, what am I wearing? Did I wear that like on Monday? Is that like a repeat? I don't wanna wear that again. Like, wait, and it was that thing that kept me up at night. Do I like this or whatever? And I know that not everyone is like that, but that was always the thing for me.

15:44Rachel Zoe:So I think if you can take out that component, it's like you said, it's like less brain spend, you know, one less thing. Yeah, if you were to give us like top five fashion tips, just very quickly for our audience? Like, how would you break it down just for quick essentials? I mean, I think that you have to look at your life. What are you doing in your life, right? Like, what is your life? Like, do you go out to things that are really like dressy and elegant and glamorous? And probably not at this age, but like, if you do, then you need to have your little like sparkly dresses that your like favorite little black dress that you can throw on and you can dress it up or dress it down.

16:17Rachel Zoe:For me, it's versatility, right? Like, I would always say have a suit, right? Like, but a cool suit, like a, you know, like a great jacket and pant that you can mix and match 80 different ways. That is your absolute go-to. I'd say black mostly because it's easiest, but you can wear the pants. You can wear the trousers with like a white tank or a white shirt or a t-shirt and flats. You could also wear it with heels and throw your hair up in a messy bun and put on a red lip and like go out out. You know what I mean? You could wear the jacket with denim shorts and like cute little boots, like ankle boots and have a whole different like Isabelle Marant vibe.

16:49Rachel Zoe:look like there's 80 different ways that i could style a suit but at least if you have those that's like your basic so i'd say that and obviously your great pair of shoes flats and heels if you wear both um and what else i would say i would say everyone should have an amazing leather jacket that they can throw over everything because it just always makes everything look better like a good black leather jacket is like can save you you guys heard it you all need leather jackets it's just like and it can be faux leather if you're vegan like it doesn't matter it's just

17:20Sophia:the vibe i'm a big second hand i like my second hand like those are jackets and stuff are amazing okay favorite thing in your wardrobe i'm asked that all the time it's like i can't i can't like picking a favorite child one of the favorite things in your wardrobe or favorite child you choose uh can't be a child but um i have a vintage chanel coat that's here that's one of my favorites

17:44Rachel Zoe:I bought it forever ago in Paris and it's got like this amazing like like fur collar and it's long and it's got a little sparkle in it and it goes almost to the ground. It almost feels like something Mick Jagger would have worn in the 60s or like a Steven Tyler. Like it's like that vibe. It's like a it's just it's very rock and roll. That's why I like it. Like it could be Chrome Hearts, you know, but it's just it's everything.

18:08Sophia:You've styled like everyone in your career. If you could style one person, like dead or alive, who would it be?

18:14Rachel Zoe:Oh, Brigitte Bardot. That's a great one. Definitely. Princess Diana would have been a great one.

18:20Sophia:I always say if I could steal anyone's closet, it'd be hers. I think one thing I'd love for us to touch on is talking to them about dressing for the job that they want. I think it'd be huge in like the confidence element of it. Yes.

18:31Rachel Zoe:And this is something I've really talked about in my career a lot because I think it's always the thing. It's like first date and first job and like job interview. you. It's so different now because, you know, job culture now is so casual because it used to be like, okay, if you're in finance, wear this, right? And if you're in film, then wear this. But now like 90 % of the time I see young women working, like they are in like leisure wear, they're in like casual leisure, they're in aloe, they're in, you know, they're basically in like workout clothes. But like, it used to be that you were like Andy Sachs in a fashion magazine, You were Anne Hathaway and it was like, you know, you had to dress for the part.