Duolingo CEO: How to Brainwash Yourself to Success and Get Addicted to Learning. Follow these habits

10:40Phoebe Robinson:But it has not gotten to the point where he asks me.

10:43Sophia Bush:Never.

10:45Phoebe Robinson:No, I don't think so. Really, half of the stuff that gets posted, I'm like, I don't even know why this is funny or why it would be where anybody would not like it. So I'm not a good reviewer for this.

10:56Luis Von Ahn:And I want to talk about generally your kind of philosophy as a company, because you've talked a lot about investing, particularly in new grad hires. Yes. Why did you make that decision? And how do you screen when so many young talented people are coming out of college to actually figure out who gets a job at Duolingo?

11:13Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, I mean, so we're, the whole time that we've been at Duolingo, we've hired people straight out of college, a lot of them. At first, I think it started because we started the company in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. It was easier to hire new grads. New grads were willing to move to Pittsburgh, whereas I think, you know, more established people, a lot of times they had families, so it's kind of harder to move. So that's why we started hiring new grads. Also, it used to be the case that I used to be a professor at Carnegie Mellon University, and that's why we were in Pittsburgh. So I knew a lot of college students, I guess.

11:46Phoebe Robinson:So that's why we started. But over time, we just have this new grad program. About half of our employees have come to Duolingo as a new grad.

11:53Sophia Bush:And as a former teacher, I mean, what advice do you give to students now that you did back then? Like just generally in terms of what you want students to take away from like your career, from your learnings. Like, well, what are your biggest pieces of advice?

12:08Phoebe Robinson:Well, it depends on what it is for. I mean, if it's students, I mean, to learning, the most important thing about learning is just making a habit. You know, there's some stuff that you can learn in an hour or two, like fixing a faucet. But things, you know, like these subjects like math or whatever, it takes years to learn. Same with learning a language. It just takes years to learn a language. So the most important thing is just do what you can to build a habit. So that's for students. Now, for people who have recently graduated and that work at Duolingo, for example, I mean, my biggest advice is to find a way to be useful.

12:39Phoebe Robinson:That takes you pretty far. I have a story that I tell inside Duolingo to all the new employees, which happens to be a true story. Early on at Duolingo, there were two engineers. One of them kept on coming to me and saying, we don't have a blog, we should have a blog. Why don't we have a blog? And they kept on complaining, like months of complaining. We didn't have a blog. And then the second engineer one day just came to me and said, I noticed we didn't have a blog, so I started one. That's way better than complaining about not having a blog. So this is a kind of a story that I use inside Duolingo for people.

13:13Phoebe Robinson:Just make yourself useful as opposed to trying to complain. Complainer is not useful.

13:18Sophia Bush:And Duolingo is a multibillion-dollar company. What do you look for when you're hiring?

13:25Phoebe Robinson:Certainly good at their craft. So whatever it is your craft is. I mean, if you're a designer, we really look at your portfolio. If you're an engineer, we want to make sure that you're great at your craft. So certainly we'll look at that. But on top of that, we look at whether people really believe in our mission. Most of the people that work at Duolingo really believe in the mission. So we look at that. And then the other thing, we have this rule. It's kind of an informal rule. But whenever you're trying to hire somebody, it's because you have a hole in the organization that you're trying to fill.

13:56Phoebe Robinson:The informal rule is better to have a hole than an asshole. So we try very hard not to hire assholes. You can't always tell from an interview, but sometimes you can. And we're like, yeah, we're not going to hire that person.

14:10Luis Von Ahn:And you famously have paid taxi drivers to tell you how your executives that you're interviewing have treated them.

14:18Phoebe Robinson:By now, the word is out. So people treat their drivers very well. But it doesn't work anymore. But part of the interview for us was how they treated their driver. I mean, and there was one hire that we were going to make. We had been looking for a chief financial officer for like a year. And there was this one person that we all really liked, had a really strong resume. And then it turned out that they were pretty mean to their driver from the airport to the office. And that made us not hire them. Because, you know, our belief is, and I really believe in this, is that, you know, if they're going to be mean to the driver, probably going to be mean to other people, particularly people under them.

14:59Phoebe Robinson:And so we did not want that.

15:01Luis Von Ahn:And 16 % of your workforce is focused on design. Can you talk about that? When you said you and your co-founder are not big designers, you care about design, but neither of you are designers by trade. You have an incredible educational background, but none of it's in design. How did you guys make that decision? And what does a giant design workforce like that look like?

15:21Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, our design team is large. It's something like 16 % of our entire company is design. We hire a lot of fresh grad designers, but we also hire some more experienced ones. It started out because we had a couple of employees, very early employees, who were very influential at Duolingo that were just really good designers. One of them is Tyler Murphy, who's still with us. and they just attracted other really good designers and it just became this kind of snowball that just really good talent attracted more really good talent and that just grew a lot. The other thing that happened is a few years ago we bought a design studio in Detroit which is a world-renowned design studio and so now we have this office in Detroit with about 40 people.

16:16Phoebe Robinson:They're all either artists or designers And that has done wonders for us. I mean, if you look at the Duolingo app, it's all very well designed, but not just very well designed, very well animated. If you look at the animations, I mean, if you actually pay attention, the animations are incredible. And they're all done by hand with, you know, by artists.

16:32Luis Von Ahn:So when you guys are testing or doing different experiments, is that the design team running that or is that a separate team?

16:37Phoebe Robinson:So we have three separate functions that run product. It's engineering, product management, and design. We call it EPD. those three functions together do all of that usually duolingo split up in a bunch of teams i don't even know how many teams we have now it's probably more than 50 and each team has engineers designers and product managers and they all decide what to do but each team operates pretty independently from the other teams and they come up with what to what to do but designers have

17:08Sophia Bush:a huge say in this and i i want to kind of pivot the direction of this conversation to focus more on learning and education at large. That's the mission, really, of Duolingo. And I had watched your TED Talk about basically wanting to make learning as addictive as social media. What does that mean? And what can people take away from that lesson?

17:29Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, I mean, the hardest thing about learning something by yourself is staying motivated. I mean, we learned this a long time ago that just, you know, there's a way to learn. for example, before Duolingo, there are many ways to learn languages. There's many ways to learn anything you want, but the hard thing is staying motivated. For example, you really can just learn quantum physics for free by just reading Wikipedia, but most people don't do that. You really need to find a way to stay motivated. So that's been the main thing we've worked on at Duolingo, is making the app to be as engaging as we can.

18:04Phoebe Robinson:Now, we know it's not as engaging as TikTok. I mean, it's hard to compete with cats or, you know, all the other memes. But I think, Like, you know, it's, I don't know what fraction, 80 % as engaging, some amount as engaging. And I think that people also internally, a lot of them feel bad when they're using something like TikTok or social media, but they don't feel bad when they're using Duolingo. So our hope is that we just have to be kind of close to as fun as social media. And then the last 10 to 20 % people's internal drive gets them. But yeah, we really spent a lot of time trying to make Duolingo more engaging.

18:36Sophia Bush:How do you counterbalance this idea of wanting to have people learn a language, but then also spending a lot of time on their phones, like getting addicted to an app? Like, where do you draw the line?

18:48Phoebe Robinson:I mean, the way we see it is what we want is that whenever you're using Duolingo, what you're doing there is positive for you. So everything we have on Duolingo, we don't just teach languages, by the way. That's the main thing we teach, but we now have math, music, and also chess. And just we want it to be the case that everything that you can do there is positive. That's what we're trying to do. Chess was an interesting one because I actually at first said that we should not have chess on Duolingo because I thought it's just a game. I wanted to have, you know, I'm like, let's have math, not chess.

19:21Phoebe Robinson:But then I talked to the person who was the minister of education of Guatemala, this woman who said to me, look, the education system, the public education system in Guatemala is not working very well. and it is doing so badly that I am considering sending a chess set to every student because at least they'll learn logical thinking and when she said that to me I'm like oh maybe we should have chess on Duolingo and that's why we added so we just want we want it to be the case that a parent feels good giving it to their children and saying go nuts on Duolingo and that's that's kind of what we want.

19:53Luis Von Ahn:I want to talk about education and its role in your life and how that affected you starting Duolingo.

19:59Phoebe Robinson:Yeah. I mean, so I was born and I grew up in Guatemala, which is a poor country. I was very fortunate that I received the education of a rich person, even though, I mean, it was just me and my mother. And my mother was not rich. My mother was a doctor, but she worked for the state. And in Guatemala, a doctor that works for the state doesn't make a lot of money. But I was fortunate that I was only a child. And so she spent essentially all of her extra income or that she didn't spend on like food on my education. So I went to a fancy school and I could see the difference between what I was learning and what my neighbors were learning, who, because of the neighborhood that I lived in, which was a middle-class neighborhood, none of them, they were all going to like your average school in Guatemala, which is not particularly good.

20:43Phoebe Robinson:And then of course, because of that, I was able to come to the United States for college, et cetera, et cetera. So it's just, it just really made a humongous difference. And I saw it not just with my neighbors and everything, but by just growing up in Guatemala, you really see a lot of people talk about education as something that can bring equality to different social classes, but I always saw it as the opposite because what ended up happening, and you see this in the U.S. too, is people who have a lot of money can buy themselves really fancy educations, and therefore, because they have such fancy educations, they can get really good jobs and keep making a lot of money, whereas people who don't have a lot of money don't learn very much.

21:19Phoebe Robinson:In poor countries, they barely learn how to read and write. And because of that, they can never really make a lot of money. So that's the reason why Duolingo is such a mission-driven company. That's why we have a free product, and that's why we want to make sure that the free product is always available for everybody. Because what we want to do is really try to give equal access to education to everyone. And I think for sure, we have users in the whole spectrum of Duolingo. So on the one side of the spectrum, I mean, we have, again, Syrian refugees or people who really don't have a lot of money who are trying to learn English to get a slightly better job, etc.

21:54And on the other side of the spectrum, we have, you know, billionaires, famous people, etc.

21:58Phoebe Robinson:One of the latest ones that I saw was George Clooney is like a big user of Duolingo. So, you know, but it's pretty awesome that it's the same educational system is being used by people who don't have very much money versus like billionaires. Usually, that's rare. Usually, people who are very rich have private tutors, better stuff. So that's what we wanted to achieve.

22:22Sophia Bush:And at what point during your educational journey did you learn about the importance of habits?

22:27Phoebe Robinson:I think I actually just started learning about that, really realizing that when I was working on Duolingo. I mean, it just turned out that I had made a lot of habits, but I didn't really think about it until I started working on Duolingo. By working on Duolingo, I've learned all kinds of things. Another thing that I've learned is people don't read anything. We sometimes work really hard on the specific copy in the app that people don't read. And now this is a big thing that we say inside Duolingo, which is like as few words as you can anywhere in the app. Whenever there's something, a message, we just try really hard to make it shorter and shorter and shorter.

23:03Phoebe Robinson:Because every extra word is you lose like another 10 % of users that are not going to read the thing. you know we've learned animations really matter and in winning moments so whenever you just did really well etc longer animations are better than shorter animations because people kind of want to celebrate so when you just did something pretty awesome on Duolingo you'll see that the animation ends up being about seven seconds long because people actually want to celebrate that that's another thing that we internally know So the other one, if you haven't done this for your app, which I assume you have, but it took us a really long time to start doing it, is film completely average users and watch them use your app.

23:49Phoebe Robinson:My God. This is where you realize how broken your app is or how confusing it is because you think that it is perfectly not confusing. And then the average person is confused from the first second. So we do a lot of that.

24:04Luis Von Ahn:And how do you think about AI and the moat you guys have around brand and marketing and people having streaks? How do you think about advancing the company and the work that you guys are doing?

24:13Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, I mean, look, with AI, we have this internal golden rule, which is anytime we use AI, it should be for the benefit of our users. That is the golden rule we have. And, you know, there are some companies that are like, oh, we can use AI to save cost. You know, that's not what we do internally. We just if it's something that we can use it to help our users, it's good. So, for example, with AI, it used to be the case that throughout Duolingo up until about three years ago, we could not get you to practice conversation because this is just not something we could really teach. We could teach vocabulary.

24:45Phoebe Robinson:We could teach how to read. But practicing conversation, the technology was just not there to do that. So the only way we knew how to get you to practice conversation was to pair you up with another human, which some people want to do. But about 90 % of the world's population does not want to talk to another human in a language that they're not very good at because they're too shy. So most people didn't want to do that. So this is why we stopped doing that. But over the last three years, because of AI, you can actually practice conversation by talking to an AI. And people are not shy about that.

25:12Phoebe Robinson:So that's, you know, we're very happy with doing that.

25:16Sophia Bush:And do you guys use AI in your workforce, too, to expedite productivity? What does that look like?

25:21Phoebe Robinson:Sure, we do. You know, every function uses it differently. I mean, engineers are, you know, some of the stuff that they're coding is being coded by AI. In all cases, again, we're not trying to substitute people. We're trying to just get people to be more effective. So engineers use it that way. Designers use some of the illustrations are now being done by AI. But we're finding that it's only the simpler illustrations that can be done by AI. So just every function uses it themselves. But there's an interesting thing with AI. And I've talked to many other CEOs that have a similar experience, which is if you pull our engineers, for example, close to 100 % of them say they use AI heavily to code.

26:06Phoebe Robinson:Good. If you ask them if they like it, they'll tell you, yes, I like it. But somehow we have not measured an improvement in speed in our coding. And many CEOs have not seen that. And it's not because we don't have good engineers. We have truly excellent engineers. But so there's this paradox that, and weirdly, if you look at particularly X, or if you look at social media, particularly X, If you were to read that, you would just think that at this point, computers are better than humans at programming, and we should just fire all your engineers. But this is just far from the truth. And, you know, when you go and ask, because I was confused.

26:43Phoebe Robinson:I'm like, well, you all use AI. You should be going, I don't know, 20 % faster at least, or twice as fast or something. And, you know, you go and talk to the engineers. They'll tell you, look, AI really helps. And in some cases, whenever I want to do something, I tell it to do it and it does it exactly as I want it to. And it saves me time. But there are some other cases where I tell it to do something and it just does the wrong thing. And then I spend all this time trying to figure out why it did the wrong thing and how to do the right thing. And unfortunately, I spend as much time on that as I saved on the other thing.

27:14Phoebe Robinson:So ultimately, it's a bit of a wash. I think this will get better over time. But at this point, we're still at a point where the productivity is just not that much better than without it. For performance marketing, we do use AI for the creative to try to change the creative. One of the things that matters is you just have to try a lot of different creatives. And so that gets done with AI. So that, you know, we use it that way. But I would say the most important thing for our marketing at the moment is certainly not AI. I mean, it's just getting our message right and also having the right strategy in each country.

27:50Phoebe Robinson:I mean, we have users in every single country in the world. We have specific marketing campaigns in about 12 to 15 countries that we actually, you know, kind of the larger countries. And, you know, each one is localized. So that matters a lot.

28:11Sophia Bush:How do you think AI is going to impact education?

28:15Phoebe Robinson:I mean, I think it's going to eventually change quite a bit. It's going to take some time. I mean, there's some people that are like, well, next year, education is going to be completely different. Education changes slowly. But I do think that the way we learn will change a lot. Now, I really have to say something important here. I am a former teacher. I'm a former professor. The goal is not, certainly not with us, and I just don't think it will ever happen, to substitute teachers. I think teachers do an incredible job at motivating people. It's very hard to be motivated by an AI, but you can be motivated by a teacher.

28:53Phoebe Robinson:When I was growing up, all my role models were basically teachers. So nobody, at least we, don't want to substitute teachers. And I just don't think society will substitute teachers. But I do think that there's a lot of individualized attention that can be given to each student with AI. A lot of drills. And the nice thing about AI is they can very quickly figure out what you know and what you don't and start drilling you on the things you don't. So I think that's going to change quite a bit. The other thing that's important to mention is a lot of people don't have access to a good teacher. A significant fraction of the world doesn't have access to a teacher at all or a good teacher.

29:31Phoebe Robinson:So I think for those people, we can do quite a bit. And that's something that we're very proud of with Duolingo, that a lot of people throughout the world, you know like Syrian refugees or you know people that don't have access to the teacher have used Duolingo to learn a language usually the language of the country they had to move to and we're very proud of that.

29:49Luis Von Ahn:I think about this a lot because so many people talk about oh you know we're terrified here that people are going to lose their jobs from AI. I'm scared more about you know the divide between the first and third world just continuing to separate and separate.

30:00Phoebe Robinson:It will make it way worse

30:01Luis Von Ahn:and my concern is that AI is just going to get us you know the same way the industrial revolution did light years ahead. And then we're going to have this entire population in the world that doesn't have access to cell phones or computers that is completely left behind. But I do completely agree with your point. It's not replacing the humans, but if there's a way to supercharge, I remember during my time, like working in Rwanda with Partners in Health, they were doing this really cool thing where you could have, instead of a doctor doing it, you could instantly have an AI take a photo of someone's C-section wounds.

30:29Luis Von Ahn:And it would tell you, you know, does she need to come in and see the doctor or does she not, which would help a woman, you know, from walking nine hours, it could predetermine that. And this idea of, okay, if you have an incredible teacher, can you supercharge them to help, you know, a wider population or to touch a wider population where, you know, if the students, you know, interacting, it can give them a report on how they're doing or what needs to be improved. Does Duolingo today ever partner with schools or what does that look like?

30:52Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, we do have, you know, a significant number of the people who are learning a language in schools are also using Duolingo. Our belief is that about half of the students in language classrooms in the U.S. are using Duolingo. Now, we don't have formal partnerships with the majority of them, in part because we have found it pretty hard to partner with schools. They have different requirements than what we have. For example, one of the things that most schools will tell you is that the school has to own the account of the student, whereas we're like, no, no, see, we want the student to own their account.

31:29Phoebe Robinson:And so that's been, you know, we just don't do that very much, but we try as much as we can to just, well, Duolingo is free, so you can just use it wherever you want. The UN has used Duolingo quite a bit for their refugee camps to teach them the languages of the countries they had moved to. Actually, there's a pretty funny story that at some point we got wind that there was some refugee camp in Turkey that was using Duolingo for their Syrian refugees. and we wanted to send the team to just go look at what was going on just for us to learn. And they were very scared for us to go there. They're like, I don't know if you should come.

32:06Phoebe Robinson:But eventually they agreed. And then we sent the team there. And the reason they were really scared is because they thought, what they were doing is whenever people completed the Duolingo course, they were printing a certificate that said you've completed the Duolingo course and it had like our owl in there. And they thought we were going to go there to sue them for usage of the owl. And this is absolutely not what we want it to. But yeah, that's the type of stuff we've seen.

32:28Luis Von Ahn:That's incredible. Have you ever gotten, you know, user stories of people who've used Duolingo and how it's affected their life once they've mastered a language?

32:36Phoebe Robinson:Oh, my God. We get a lot of them. And it's, you know, for some of the people, it's that they master the language. And, you know, we see a lot of like, oh, I got a job because of this. But it's not just that. It's for a lot of people, it gives them meaning. And they may not master the language, but it gives them meaning. I mean, we see a lot, for example, the ones that really get to me is older people. Like a lot of times we see somebody says like, oh, my dad is 87 years old, always wanted to learn Italian, has a 2000 day streak, is now in the hospital. Can you guys freeze their streak or something?

33:10Phoebe Robinson:So and those are very heartwarming to me. But yeah, we get I mean, we get user stories every single day.

33:14Sophia Bush:And how can people rewire their brains to learn instead of kind of using social media and having these unhealthy habits?

33:22Phoebe Robinson:I mean, that's I wish everybody would do that. That's that's what we're trying to do. You know, the the most important thing is, I think, just trying to set yourself a time to do it. One of the things that we have found with Duolingo is if you tie your usage of Duolingo with a daily habit, Like I always do my Duolingo after brushing my teeth or something or like first thing when I wake up. If you're able to tie it to that, it's a lot more effective. We're finding.

33:52Sophia Bush:Yeah, because I'm curious just generally about habit formation, consumer psychology. How does that kind of tie into whether or not people will successfully learn a language or a healthy habit?

34:02Phoebe Robinson:A hundred percent. That's really important. I mean, whenever somebody signs up to Duolingo, we know what really matters is how much you use it in the first 20 days. and we try really hard to get you to use it a lot in the first 20 days. We send you as many push notifications as we can, etc. If we can get you to use Duolingo straight for 20 days, you'll stay around for a long time. And, you know, it's not exactly 20. It depends on the countries, etc. But around 20 days, we're trying really hard to get you to do it. So it just takes some time to form a habit. But once you form it, it's pretty hard to get rid of it.

34:35Phoebe Robinson:So all these people that have like a 2 ,000-day streak on Duolingo or 1 ,000-day streak on Duolingo, they'll go through whatever to continue their streak and so you see all these social media stories of people doing duolingo at 11 59 in the club or like you know you get we get all these things there was actually a an interesting thing that there was a reality tv show that was going to be filmed um somewhere in some island and they were going to cut off internet access and take people's phones away and then we got uh emails from the producers being like look we're trying to take the phones away of some of these people, but the only thing they want is that they can keep doing their Duolingo.

35:11Phoebe Robinson:So can you help us out and like make sure that they don't lose their streak? So this is the type of stuff. Once you have a long streak, you'll continue doing it.

35:19Luis Von Ahn:Do you see differences between age groups in terms of how committed they are to learning a language?

35:25Phoebe Robinson:It's pretty similar between the age groups, but yeah, different groups of people have it have a different um younger people korean uh because of k-pop and and k-dramas i mean we see it we see it 100 so k-pop demon hunters great for our korean usage throughout your journey what have

35:43Sophia Bush:been the biggest lessons you've learned especially from mistakes that you've made one of the things

35:50Phoebe Robinson:that really helped me certainly you know where you guys are congratulations on your series a by the way. That is awesome. Your Series A is 10 times larger than our Series A. So congratulations to you.

36:00Luis Von Ahn:It's also over 10 years later. Inflation is real. Inflation is real. These ML engineers are not cheap.

36:06Phoebe Robinson:Congratulations, though. When you're raising funds, one of the things that I really learned, and it really helped me out, is whenever I raise funds, I would talk to the investor right before signing the deal. We had agreed. Everything was agreed upon. And then, but right before signing, I would call them And I would say I have something very important to talk to you about. And it is that there are certain things that I'm going to continue doing at Duolingo. And no matter what you say, we are going to continue doing them. In our case was our free product really matters. Because a lot of times investors were like, why the hell do you have the free product?

36:40Phoebe Robinson:This is kind of wasted. You know, you should just charge everybody. And so I would tell them our free product really matters. You can't touch it. Like, sorry, if later you come and tell me that I need to start charging all our users, I'm going to tell you no. deal. And, you know, everybody agreed. So that's good. But it really helped me in the future, because sometimes, you know, there would be some investor who would come in and say, hey, have you thought about charging the free product? And I would remind them where I we talked about this. That really helped. So making things super clear, particularly with investors, was a big lesson for me.

37:18Phoebe Robinson:You know, another one, another lesson that was a good one for me, hard stuff, hard conversations that you're supposed to have. Start by saying the thing. So for example, the first person that I ever had to fire did not know that they were being fired. And they came the next day to work. Because I am, first of all, I'm conflict avoidant. And secondly, what I did was I basically sugarcoated it so much that by the time they left, they just thought that I was telling them maybe they should do a better job. And then they came the next day. What I've learned is if you're going to do something like let somebody go is you start by saying, you know, I'm very sorry, but I'm going to have to let you go.

37:59Phoebe Robinson:And then you explain, as opposed to the other way around, which is like work up to it. That kind of doesn't work super well. That was a big lesson for me. But it's not just for firing. It's for hard conversations. You start by saying, hey, this is happening. And then you explain. That was at least a learning for me.

38:14Sophia Bush:And a question that I had is like when you look at Duolingo and you break down what are the most important goals of the company, what are they and how did you come up with them?

38:22Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, we do yearly goals for the whole company. And then each team does quarterly goals. For the whole company, usually these are goals on number of users, on teaching content and revenue, et cetera. Usually the numbers that you put in there, they're always supposed to be stretch goals. So, for example, if we really think that we're only going to make$15 million, you should put$20 million because it kind of pushes people to do a little more. So, generally, we try to get to 70 % of whatever we put as the number in our objectives.

38:56Luis Von Ahn:Can you talk about what's next for Duolingo this year and why you're bull on the continued rise of Duolingo over time?

39:03Phoebe Robinson:Yeah, I mean, I'm very excited about everything that's coming up next. So some of the things are, for sure, Duolingo is just going to be teaching better. Thanks to AI, we really can teach all our subjects better. So over the next year or two, you're just going to see basically learning outcomes get a lot better. So I'm excited about that. I'm excited that we're going to be adding more subjects. I mean, I can't really say specific, and it's not because I don't want to say this. I just don't exactly know what other new subjects we're going to have. But I would really love to include K-12 Science.

39:37Phoebe Robinson:So there's that. And then just generally, I think Duolingo is going to be a lot more social and a lot more fun. I mean, we're adding a lot of social components to Duolingo. And that has continually made it more and more fun. You're going to see more of that.

39:52Luis Von Ahn:Well, thank you so much for coming on The Burnouts. We couldn't be more grateful for your time. I personally have learned so much today. I'm excited for our audience to see this.

40:00Phoebe Robinson:Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. music music