How a Stay-at-Home Mom Built the $255 Million Drybar Empire (ft. Alli Webb)

23:21Like, is it public? Did you guys share how much you sold it for? Yeah, it was public. I mean, it's not always public, but it was in our case and we sold for 255 million to Helen of Troy, which you can look up And for the record, people listening, I did not take home and pocket$255 million. I wish I did. But by the time we sold, we had so many partners and investors that most of that money went to them. And that's the process of selling. And that's also the process of growing. And you can decide if you want to grow slow or grow fast. And I've had friends and other founders who've done it both ways.

23:55And there's pros and cons to both. I mean, we felt like I was saying earlier that we were really, you know, we had all these copycats on our tails and we wanted to be the leader in the space. So we decided to grow fast, which means, which meant we needed to raise a lot of capital to do that. And that was our path. I mean, you know, I don't think I would have done it any differently. I wish I had held on to more equity as we grew, but. Has that informed how you look at your new business? It largely does. And we have my breath, my brother and I are now co-CEOs and messy. Like we have a lot of conversations about this.

24:25And I, you know, I want to be, I'm much more vigilant about how we are raising money and how we are thinking about raising money and making sure that I, you know, hold on to a certain amount of equity. It's really important to me. Because I remember from the very beginning of this conversation, you were saying it was a big learning about owning a small piece of a big pie or a big piece of a small pie. So that's why I was curious, like what that looks like for you. I want to own a medium piece of a big pie. Love. Yeah, because, you know, no one really sees it. I mean, even like when, you know, you saw like it's somebody after Haley Bieber's sale and somebody broke down what she actually made, which was still quite a lot of money.

25:03You're like, but she didn't make a billion, you know, and like people I think that it's important that people understand that that's not it's not how it works, you know. And you need partners and you need help growing and you need a great team. And all these things are really important. So you can't have one without the other because, you know, to own a, you know, a big piece of a small pie is like, well, OK, that's one way to do it. But, you know, it's like also like I am like I'm like I want to go and move and I want to do things. So, you know, you have to let go of some of that. But it's just where you're comfortable.

25:31And you didn't stop with Drybar. You went into like, you know, Beck and Quill with jewelry and then squeeze with wellness. How did you kind of decide for yourself like when it was time to say yes to something new? Well, that was, you know, that's where like the identity loss comes in after you sell a big company like Drybar, which I sold over five years ago. And it was a very like, oh, like, who am I now? And I was trying on a lot of different things. And I had started to invest in a lot of company, mostly like female founded brands. And I, you know, I felt like I had learned so much, which is really why I wrote my second book, The Messy Truth, which was like every lesson I could remember.

26:08and going from like someone who didn't go to college and only like just learned on the job. And I did learn so much. I feel like I got a, you know, a master's in business building Drybar because I really had to learn so much stuff to like keep up with what was going on. And so that book, you know, was like a tell all. I was like, I just want to impart everything that I can on women or people. What I didn't kind of see coming was the fact that I was, would incorporate so much of my personal life in it. So I felt like as a really successful entrepreneur, I wanted to shed light on the not so pretty side and the not so glamorous side of being an entrepreneur, which I had, you know, my mom died.

26:45My, my 13 year old son went into rehab. My marriage fell apart. I mean, it was just like, wow, it was such a juxtaposition because I was on top of the world with Drybar and Drybar was so successful, but I, my life was kind of falling apart. And I just wanted to show that like, that's kind of where we all are and it's messy. And I was going through all that. And then I was not like running Drybar anymore. So I was like, who am I now. And so I did start investing in other brands and I, you know, we were, you know, ideating a lot of other things. I joined some boards, which I was like, I hate, I hate long phone calls about numbers.

27:18I'm like, what am I doing on boards? But, but I was, I had a lot of opportunities at my fingertips. So I was like, I was exploring a lot of different things, you know, and then, you know, COVID happened and I had met my now second ex-husband during that time, you know, I was in this, like, I just don't know who I am and trying to figure it out. And it was a real spiritual journey for me personally. And then, you know, also one of the things that I really wasn't paying attention to, but that started to happen because we were in COVID and we weren't going anywhere as I stopped blow drying my hair.

27:47And I was like, huh. And then my hair started to grow and I started to really like, I kind of started to fall in love with my natural, like wavy air, like you see now. And I was like, this is interesting, huh? You know, and, and that kind of journey started is really what led me to launch Messy, which we now launched about 10 weeks ago in Sephora. So kind of like got the old playbook out. And, you know, I called Sephora and my friends at Sephora. I was like, Hey, I have this idea. You know, I'm like, I know I've been in retirement for the last five years, but I want to start a product line that really, you know, gives women permission to embrace the hair that they have and gives them like the actual method of a way to do your hair.

28:26That's not just a blowout. I just kind of lost the taste for the blow out and I wanted to embrace something else. And I would have never in a million years thought I would like, you know, show up to an interview with like my wavy hair, but I love it now. I mean, it's just so interesting how that changes. And, and so I wanted to build a product line that really supported that. And, and all of our products have mantras on them. Like I am enough and I'm transformed and, and, and the, you know, so it's an emotional connection too, because our hair is so emotional. I mean, as soon as you walked in today, someone's like, oh, your hair looks great.

28:57I mean, people, women, like there's a thing with hair, but what's also fascinating that I've learned is like women have so much hair baggage. Part of my mission now, which I never saw coming was that I want to, you know, give women that like permission to embrace what they have and not feel like they have to like, which I know is, is, is a little hypocritical, but like this idea of perfection. And like, I, that's, that's what it was. Like I had the perfect life, the perfect hair, the perfect sons, perfect marriage, you know, and it was not real. And so I'm going back to this world of like, let's just like, let it all be a little more real and messy and not so perfect.

29:34And that's, that's really how messy came to be. So it's so much more than a product line, you know, it's, it's me, it feels like a movement of like, we're really trying to get women to, you know, love what they have and who they are, not, you know, not this idea of perfectionism. And so that's my soapbox. I love that because it's like you're building the world around the product. Yeah. And so it's interesting how it's kind of, you know, developed with Drybar. Like even the hairstyles are like different cocktail names. And it sounds like with messy, what you're trying to do is like pull back the curtain and be like, this is actually me.

30:03This is what the future is. And it is. It's like messy isn't just a product line. It's this whole, you know, creation and idea of like, you know, embracing what you have. And I'm not anti-blowout. Your hair looks amazing, by the way. Um, I love, you know, I still love a good blow up, but like then there's days where you're like, I don't want to blow out my hair. I want to try something new. And I'm trying to get women to embrace that. But like you said, you used Silk Revival on your hair this morning, which, yeah, I mean, it's a great after product when you, after a blowout, you know, so we, it has heat protections of your curling.

30:32So there, it really does work for everybody. Um, and I'm just trying to like get women to like dip their toe into like trying something new.

30:49well that's really pragmatic too because the reality is right for me i do my blowout once a week when we're filming a podcast and otherwise it's too much time it's too cumbersome to blow my hair out a lot like for what and so you do need an intermediary step where you need product to be able to just maintain your natural hair and imagine if you actually liked it i mean yeah There is a hole in the marketplace, which I feel like that is what dry bar was. It's like, you can go get a blowout or you're like, well, I don't want to get a blowout today, but what am I going to do with my hair? Am I going to put it up in a bun?

31:21Maybe, but what else is there? And so that was really what I was trying to, what I've been trying to solve for is like, and then there's like the air dry, which is like, okay, that can work, but doesn't always. And you kind of don't know exactly what your hair is going to do, which, so I, you know, I kind of came up with this idea of like twisting your hair while it's still damp with the rough dry cream in it. And then it dries. I always say like hair dries the way it stays. Because it's like when you are getting a blowout and you're using like a round brush, like you're drying it in the shape you want it to stay.

31:52When you're twisting the hair, it's drying in the way you want it to stay. So as long as you don't touch your twists, which is like if you watch any of my videos, and there's a lot of them now of me explaining this method, I'm like, don't touch your hair. And I know it's hard because like it's in these girls, you feel like you don't like, it doesn't look great yet, but once it dries, it opens up and now it's dry and now it's set in those twists and essentially those waves. And now you can touch it and fluff it out and do whatever, you know? And it transformed my hair because I had, if I just let my hair dry curly, it's like, it's curly in some spots, it's straighter than the other.

32:26I needed to like unify it and like conform my hair, but how do I do that? And so that's, and when I was kind of in this process I was like there's not really products that are doing what I want it to do and that was all kind of how it came together I was watching one of the ads where the girl was curling yeah twisting and then she let it dry and I literally used to do that I remember in high school before my mom let me buy a dry bar flat iron because she was like you're gonna ruin your hair you need to make sure you're not always using heat on it and that was like your mom what yeah my mom my mom was like your hair is gonna fry off and she was right it was it was very fried in high school, which is why now I'm like, I only will blow dry my hair when I need to.

33:04And something I wanted to circle back on, which I thought was really interesting, is that you were building a story and a brand around messy. And that was something that always stuck out to me about Drybar is the yellow, like the brand, the names of the hairstyles. What were kind of some of the transferable learnings? Like how did you build that super distinctive brand for Drybar? Yeah. I mean, what was so interesting about that time, you know, my ex-husband Cam, who was I mentioned was an advertising guy. I remember when we were concepting the idea for Drybar and I really, everything I know about branding so much comes from him and what he, what I learned watching him, not just build Drybar, but other, all the other brands he built over the years.

33:41But when we were concepting the idea for Drybar, we, we looked around at other salons and like, what are they doing? And most of them were black and white and red and smoky and dark. And if you walked into a hair salon, there was like, you know, a red blow dryer, a blue blow dryer, or a black blood dryer. It was just like, I am such a like OCD, like cleanliness is close to godliness. Like I like things just so. And so I hated that. And so I was like, first of all, I don't want that piece of it. But Cam, when we, when we came up with the, with the, the yellow, because again, that was completely opposite of what hair salons were at that time.

34:16You know, it was like, they were all dark and, and, and smoky. It's the best way I can think of it.

34:24Dry was yellow and bright and happy. And I, and when we worked with our architect, cause it all really worked together. Our, you know, our architect was this award-winning architect. He went to Harvard and he was super smart and had done like multimillion dollar homes. And my friend of my brother's and he's like, Hey, my little sister has this idea for a hair salon. Will you help us? You know? And I, I remember I, I would show him pictures of like these like French boudoirs. And then I'd show him like a really modern space. And I, I knew nothing about interior design. I'd never had my own like house like that, but I knew what I liked.

34:53And I, and he was able to really bridge that gap of like making this feel like a very, like, you know, the white marble and, and the, the beautiful millwork and the tufting on the walls and the, really the tufting on the walls looked beautiful, but it was also to absorb sound because that we were blowing in so much noise in the blow dryers. And if you take that out of a space, it gets very, very echoey, which I was like, who knew? You know, I mean, so many learnings, but you know, Josh and Josh, our architect and Cam worked very closely together. And, and, and, and I view branding as like every little touch point in a business.

35:26So it wasn't just the yellow blow dryers, but it was, you know, we had these little yellow trays and the stylists wore yellow aprons and everything is white and, and the cookies at the front and the customer service and the cleanliness and the music. I mean, you name it. I was like, you know, very particular about every single thing that we did. And I wanted the continuity between every single location, every single chair that you knew exactly what you were going to get. And the stylist was going to use the same tools and the same blow dryer. And so that was branding to me. It was all of it. It wasn't just the name of our logo and the colors of our brand.

35:59And so when we were starting Messy, I was looking through the same lens of what's everybody else doing? We're going to go do the opposite. I wanted the muted. I wanted like a very mauve, like in a very simple name and just be very simple. And I like that, that aesthetic, but it's been done a lot. And so I remember like, even in like those early in the kitchen meetings, as they call them with Sephora, they were like, this is pretty, but it's not going to stand out. And I was like, and I remember, and I remember it like real, I realized like how much growth I had had as a human, because that would have been very offensive to me.

36:34And I would have gotten very like, fuck you guys. I know what I'm doing at that point. But I was like, I think you're right. And I remember like going, being like, I'm going to, we're going to take this feedback and go back to the drawing board. And we worked with our, you know, creative on this, who's amazing. And we were like, it's just, this is not it. You know, we got to figure out. And so I, you know, and, and that's when we kind of went back and I fell in love with this bottle. They had made this one bottle that was this like amber color with a red like tomato on it. And I was like, I love the combination of red and pink.

37:07And then I have such an affinity for stars. And because I was on the spiritual journey and I wanted the mantras, I was like, I want to make this like a really dreamy, like, you know, ethereal kind of brand. And because Messy had become a little synonymous with Messy because of my book. And like I was very, I've been very vulnerable and outspoken about my very personal stuff. Like I just was like, it's messy. And then the hair is messy. It just really all came together in this really organic, authentic way. And I think that that is how great brands are built because you're not just buying a product, you're buying into a brand.

37:41It's like, I love the term love brand because like you do fall in love with many aspects of a brand from the color, the way it looks, the way it smells, the way you feel about it, all of it. Like how does it look in your bathroom? It's like that all really matters. And that's kind of how I think about overall branding. And I want to walk back to Drybar. You guys continue to open both company-owned stores and franchise stores. Can you walk me through like the pros and cons of franchising and what you wish you'd known earlier? You know, it's a good question. And I could make an argument for both.

38:13I didn't originally want to franchise because I had, you know, I had a very tight grip on what we were doing, as you can imagine. And I was very particular on how we did it. And I, and I, what I will say, what I've learned is like, you know, franchisees are little entrepreneurs in their own right. And they have, they're bringing their own money and their, you know, their own, you know, skin into the game and they, they, they want things the way they want them. And I, I always said like, there's a lot of ways to do things right, but there's one way we're going to do it. And not everybody loves that approach, you know?

38:45And if you're an entrepreneur and you want to open a blow dry bar, which was like the hot thing at that time. It's like, if you don't want to do it our way, no problem, but then go do it yourself. Like if you want to do it our way, you kind of got to drink the yellow Kool-Aid and say like, okay, I'm going to lock arms with you and do this your way. Not to say that we'd never, we always like took feedback and ideas from our franchisees because, you know, they were running their stores, they were running into things. But, you know, to me, a good franchisee would come to us and say, hey, I have this idea for X, Y, and Z.

39:16What do you guys think about this versus just implementing it because there were certainly times where I would walk into a franchise location and they would be doing something crazy. And I was like, wait, like what? Well, I won't say what location, but like we, I hope she doesn't hear this. Um, we, we were like in the early days, we were, we were always trying new things as you do. And we had like made these really cute t-shirts that had like, you know, I think actually, I think it was a picture of me. It was yellow, but everything else was black and white. I think Brandy Melville actually made those for us.

39:44It was like early days of Brandy Melville. And I met the owner one day in the show. I was just weird. Anyways, we made these shirts and we were selling them. And the way we were displaying them was like with a little yellow ribbon tied around them at the front desk because we're not a fashion like retail location. And again, very particular about how everything looks. I walked into a store and the franchisee owner had put them on a rack hanging, like a clothing, like a hanging rack. And it's exactly my face. And I was like, yeah, no, this doesn't work. So a lot of things. That's so interesting because what I was also really curious about is every entrepreneur's plight is hiring.

40:20Of course, it's just very difficult to find a good team. So how did you go about it in the early days of finding, especially I'm really curious for those initial like stylists who were taking your role. How did, how did you go about hiring? That was really tough. I mean, I, it's, I haven't thought about this in so long, but when we were, before Drybar was open, we were building it. I would have, you know, I put like ads in wherever And I would have stylists come to my house and blow out my hair as their like audition process, which a little intimidating, although nobody knew who I was or anything.

40:49But, but it was like, I was, it was first looking for personality fit. Like, are you nice and friendly and warm? Or, you know, are you like a snooty hairstylist? And then, you know, can you give a good blowout? And, and that was a really tough process. You know, there was like, usually one or the other was good. It was hard to find both. And, and that was really challenging in those early days. And then once we opened Drybar, completely understaffed. Like I was like, I hired, I did not hire nearly enough people. And I mean, I would sit in that first chair and do blowouts and run the front desk and look to see what was happening and just kind of everywhere, which I just assumed I'd be like the manager and run the place.

41:26And then when we were opening in New York, you know, our first location in New York was in Flatiron and there was nothing like that here. And so I was like, oh, shit, like we have no training program. And I was, you know, I just didn't know, like I needed to do that. And so I, you know, I came to New York for like a month and like set up shop at the Viceroy Hotel. And I had stylists coming into the hotel room, blow drying my hair and everybody's hair. And we're like trying to train and took my best stylist from L.A. And we were like training stylists because I was like, this day is very, very, very important to us that we don't mess this up.

41:59And, you know, and I mean, we didn't. It was but it was a lot of work to get there. And then I realized we needed a training program. And I mean, at the end of the day, when we sold Drybar, we had 150 locations and probably close to 10 ,000 employees. So the training program was massive and figuring out how to execute that, which I had no idea. But I learned as we went and, you know, kind of did the best I could to get our stylist. How did you build those systems and processes? Also aside, the Flatiron location is the one I always go to. It's right next to our office. Yeah. But because I'm curious, you had a specific way of doing hair.

42:32You wanted people to do it that way. And also generally in terms of like a training manual for people to have those mannerisms that you liked, how did you go about building those systems? Well, it was like one by one, you know, and I realized I needed to hire a team of that, like people that like ultimately reported up to me and I would, you know, kind of take what was in my brain and like put it into like a learning, you know, and I would be at so many trainings and we had this girl, Ashley, who would like, you know, who headed it up and then she had people under her and then we would make kind of a top stylist, even though we didn't have like, I didn't believe in hierarchy and I didn't want to have like, you pay more for this stylist, less for this stylist.

43:09but we would have our stylist that became training stylist that we had these training managers in every single shop that was kind of, they were training new stylists that were coming in. They were training existing stylists and they were watching the floor, you know? And I mean that, there was a lot of iterations of the training program and a lot of manuals. And, and I'm like, that's not my strength. I'm not like an operations person, but I knew I needed to hire somebody who was, and who could really implement that like across sports. It was, you know, I was so many locations. And, and that was like, to me, that was our secret to success that you could walk into Flatiron or shop in LA or in DC or wherever you were.

43:42And you would have a great experience and a great blowout. That was the hardest part of the whole thing. And, you know, and I think a lot of times we got it right. Not always, but. And I know we're, we're almost at time. I want to close with, you know, you've built these, these incredible brand universes, these incredible businesses. If you could go back to yourself in your twenties, or just generally for people in their 20s who want to start a business or were starting their careers. What advice do you wish you had had? Well, I think the biggest hindrance for me when I was younger was like the intimidation I felt of like all my friends were going to college and everybody kind of knew what they wanted to do and I really didn't.

44:18And I think I felt a lot of like shame and like not good enough because I didn't know that. And yet, I mean, I did okay, you know? And I think that when I think back on that time, had I relaxed into like, and this is probably part of the little woo-woo side of me, like it's all going to work out. It's all going to be fine. But we spend so much of our lives worrying about what's going to go wrong and what's not right. And I think that that was what I did, you know. And even in the dry bar era, like when we were building it, you know, it was like there was just so many problems all the time. It was like whack-a-mole every day.

44:54I mean, you know, that's like, it's like this fire, this fire, this fire. And I was, you know, speaking of burnouts, I was like constantly burning myself out because I was constantly like, you know, just always worried. I think that that's like the biggest advice I would give to my younger self is like, it really doesn't do anything to worry except like cause a lot of stress and anxiety that it's whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And you worrying and spending so much time worrying about it isn't going to serve you. And I feel like I know that now. And I mean, I have to tell myself that still all the time, but it's, it's one of those themes that kind of constantly replays in my head because it just doesn't change anything, you know?

45:31And, and I think there's also, I think for me, allowing myself to follow the path that felt right for me and not feeling like I had to do what my parents wanted me to do or what my friends were doing and just kind of like follow my own intuition, which I think I did. And I think it's, it's, it's really like the number one piece of advice I always give to, you know, girls who were in their early 20s and like, I don't know what I want to do with my life, but they do. And there's this thing that they can't stop thinking about what they really want to be doing, but then they end up doing the thing that they think they should be doing.

46:04Like, do what you really want to do. You don't have to do it for you, not for everybody else. You know, it makes sense. Well, we're so excited to see where messy goes. Congratulations again on the launch. And thank you so much. Yeah. Congratulations on your podcast.