How influencer Chriselle Lim started Phlur ($150+ million fragrance empire)

0:00Chriselle Lim has impeccable style. She is one of the most sought after fashion and beauty content creators.

0:10you are more than just a creator you're also a businesswoman but I want to better understand kind of what your journey looked like from the very beginning I have very traditional immigrant Iranian parents who when I told them that I was leaving Stanford to move to New York City with Phoebe to work on a fashion company thought I had lost my mind and so I think when I was reading your story I saw so many parallels and I'd love to understand And like, how did you gather that courage? And how did your parents react? Well, I think my parents knew early on, just by my history in high school, that no one could stop me from doing anything.

0:46So although they were very disappointed that I decided not to finish school, I actually transferred into a fashion school, which they were very concerned about. But they realized that I was going to find a way anyway. So they were supportive in the background, but in the forefront, they were quite disappointed. and my parents are immigrant parents as well. So they had a very, you know, a grand idea of how their oldest daughter would turn out, whether it be becoming a doctor or a lawyer or marrying someone very wealthy. And God bless my parents, right? Like they are the most amazing, lovely humans and I'm so grateful for them.

1:26They're my best friends, but that's all they knew, right? And they could only parent me the way that they thought how success looked like. and so the advice was valid for them at the time but for me I was like I don't want that life like I am a very passionate person so I was like I want to follow my passion and what I feel like I'm called for so passion to them they're like what is that like that makes no sense passion means you're not you're gonna go broke that's for them how they they really took it out so it was hard but for me I I just had a deep down desire to do something that I love to do and I've always been that person to not really listen to anyone else and so I just went for it was it hard for you it was definitely hard but I think very similarly I did so many unconventional things as I was growing up that over time my parents were like she's just gonna be the odd one out and my sister now is a pre-med at Duke she's doing like a very traditional path so I think they were like one of our kids can be a little crazy I'm also the oldest daughter but she's gonna figure it out and our other daughter is gonna take the traditional path so at least one of them is on that more traditional route what about you like what how did your parents react for your other siblings what did they end up doing well my sister she was in more of a traditional kind of career path but then she's my younger sister and I don't know if you guys have siblings oh yeah but she's like oh you're doing fashion I want to do fashion oh wow uh-oh and so she actually dropped out and transferred as well and so my parents were like what you're going on and then so we actually lived together in LA she realized that she absolutely hated LA and then moved to New York and now she uh well she's in Connecticut now because she has a family and all of that but yeah my parent we put my parents through it but now they're like we were we retired them and they're just like we are so proud of you thank you for all your hard work and everything that you've done so I think just dependent on your personality and how well you know yourself.

3:27Like for me, even though I had nothing at the time, I knew that I had to follow what I was called for. And I knew that I could make something happen. I didn't know exactly what that was going to be, but it was, it was a time where I was just exploring and that was really in my twenties. Take us back to like your early twenties. Like what was that? Like, um, where did you grow up? What was your first job? Oh goodness. Okay, let's go all the way back. So I was born in Texas. My mom's a Texas girl, Dallas. She will never not bring it up. I mean, I always have to bring it up. People are like, what?

4:03You're an Asian girl from Texas? I'm like, yeah. Fun fact. Fun fact. So I was born there, only lived there for about a year. We moved to the Bay Area. my dad relocated for his job there and I pretty much grew up in the Bay Area California my entire life I moved to Korea for about three and a half years but I went to an American school in Korea because my dad got transferred for a job there and then moved back to the Bay Area and then once I graduated from high school I moved to LA for college and that's where it really began for me I started a blog in college called The Cressel Factor. This was early fashion blogger days.

4:50I think there was maybe a handful of us, like Ami Song from Song of Style, Sincerely Jewels. There were just only a handful of us, fashion girlies showing our outfits, what we're wearing to school, and writing a little piece about it. And that was bizarre back then. Like people just did not do that because we were still in the era of glossy magazines, fashion shows that I mean, nowadays being in fashion, it's an obvious if you're an influencer, you go to fashion shows. Back then, you did not. You are not invited. In fact, you're not even invited to Fashion Week. Right. And so those are all things that developed as the industry grew.

5:35So it was just out of pure boredom, to be honest, to have a blog because I needed a creative outlet during college. I was my first major was accounting and I was like, I am so bored. I need some. I love the dichotomy of the different sides of your mind, too. Like you have such a creative side and such a business side, too. So I was like, I'm really bored. like I'm crunching numbers all day in class all day let's start a fashion blog and that was kind of the start of it all for me that was when there was Facebook Instagram didn't exist yet and we just started uploading content then I started a YouTube and then I was just sharing with my audience who were all in college like how to dress expensive on a budget and there weren't that many girls doing it back then it's an obvious now but back then there was really no one doing it and so it was my creative outlet and to to imagine that I had built a life creating content is still kind of crazy to me because it wasn't part of the plan because the industry the word influencer didn't exist brands didn't pay people to create content and so we evolved I I evolved as a creator as the industry was growing as well to what it is today.

6:57And so that was how it all started. And I've been creating content, still creating content for over 20 years. When did you realize that your passion and your blog could actually become like legitimate business? What pushed you over the edge to be like, no, I don't need to be an accountant. Like I can actually make money doing this. I needed to be in fashion. Like I was like, I cannot see myself crunching numbers for the rest of my life. And so that's when I decided to drop out of college and then take a year break to figure out what it was I want to do. Then I found a fashion school where I was like, OK, this seems like this is the right path.

7:37And to be honest, I was really not a great student, even in fashion school. I was really about the tangible being in the field and actually learning and working. So as I joked before, I was the intern queen because I literally was always working. Ever since I was in high school, I was the working girl. My parents always gave me enough to survive, but they never gave me anything extra. So I always had an obsession with fashion. So I was like, OK, I need to work. I need to work so I can get some money. I could buy those cute, juicy couture tracksuits. Oh, my God. Not the juicy couture tracksuits.

8:15There's some very, very dangerous photos of me from when I was a child. Yeah, I have a ton of those. So I was always a working girl, but it really came down to the industry just starting and evolving and to what it is today. It's crazy to me that being an influencer is actually a huge industry now, which is pretty cool. But also I'm like, wow, a lot of people now are becoming influencers because they want to make a lot of money. Yeah. Which is fine to each their own. But I think it loses kind of the essence of the depth of the content. Because back then it was like all about the content. That's all we want to do is to share our creativity and the content.

9:00And so those were the early days. And obviously from there, Instagram happened and changed the game for so many of us. And then from there, TikTok happened. I was rich mom on TikTok. That was a COVID thing. I think when I got on TikTok, a lot of people were like, who is this lady? That was on Parasite. The movie Parasite was like popping off. And they're like, oh, my God, it's that rich mom from Parasite. And I was like, okay, I'm going to play with that. I'm like, hi, guys. I'm your rich mom. And so I just and people were bored. They're all stuck in their home, right? And so I was like, I'm just going to act as rich mom throughout COVID.

9:37and at work but rich mom died like shortly after why i it was not me it was just me being acting essentially and i'm not an actor so i was like i'm tired of acting i just want to be myself so which is a businesswoman yeah hell yeah it was fun while it lasted

10:03let's talk about motherhood oh gosh motherhood has changed me in ways i could not have ever imagined i was always one of those girls i was so career driven and i was like i'm never gonna have kids and i'll be totally happy and fine and even amongst my friend group they're like chrysalis the one that will not have kids and i ended up becoming the first literally sophia Sophia's like, I'm never having kids. I feel like low key, you're going to deny it, but you're going to have like one or two kids. Watch out. The people that say that the first are always the first ones that have kids. Well, I mean, I think you should definitely never say never, but I think it's hard.

10:39You say never all the time. I definitely say never. I say never every day, but I think it's because of what you said. I think we're so career driven. I think about my timeline and what I want to do with my life. And the number one thing on my mind is of course, like the company and what we want to do with that and so I'm curious like how does that change for you because it seems very similar to the mindset that I had where I was like company first and then I'll figure the rest of it out and I always tell people you do you it doesn't if you feel like you don't want kids that's totally fine right but you will know when the timing feels right and yes the fact is that there really is no good time to have kids that that's just the truth of it all yeah but you will know deep down inside when you feel that shift of like okay i'm i'm craving for something new i feel like i'm entering my new era right kind of like you guys right now with this business you guys just entered this new chapter in your life you can't even fathom or think about the next thing right whether it be kids family whether it be another career whatever that is because you're so focused on what's in front of you, rightfully so, and you should focus on that as much as you can and be super laser focused.

11:56But you'll have this burning desire inside when you're like, okay, I'm ready for that change. And so I think my biggest really kind of learning through my 20s is getting to know yourself and knowing that voice. Because your voice, your body will tell you when you're like, okay, like it's time to move on, whether it be in business, whether it be in a relationship whether it's entering motherhood whatever that is so do you have any examples of times where you didn't listen to the voice inside you and then you were like oh fuck and then so many so many I mean gosh where do I start my last relationship right I knew that I it was just not it right but I was like okay no we're gonna fight it we're gonna we're gonna make it happen that is who I am that's that's because so we don't give up on things we're we're gonna keep going until it works and that's a lesson that I've learned in the very hard way personally but also on the business side sometimes you just can't force things yep and I think I'm an Aries and I'm very stubborn and like I'm gonna make things happen no matter what and although that is a great bullish attitude is it also can hurt you sometimes when you know the universe the spirits everything is telling you otherwise and you're like god like help me and and whether you believe in god or the universe or spirits whatever it is they're like i sent you a sign but you decide not to take that sign so for me now i think in i was gonna say late 30s but i'm 40 now um it's really being so attuned to my gut feeling and we all have that and so again it's just stories of personal relationships business it's like you just know when to move on and but sometimes we're too separate to listen to that and I think that's such a good point because I also think like your personal life does impact your professional life like when you're off kilter in your personal life and you're not listening to your feelings like it also impacts the way that you show up at work like what was it like for you navigating a divorce in the public eye while also starting your business i had to step away and you know given that i have an audience that's kind of watching my life and my lifestyle they saw a shift they're like christelle like what's going on i was looking at people being like oh my god they have like the perfect family you know the perfect life and i was like i can't do that like I can I have to check out of social and be like I'm starting over at in my late 30s it's so scary but I cannot see what other people my age are doing online because I just feel like I'm way behind and so the biggest thing for me was I had to kind of step away from social media and I think that's really advice for anyone whether they're going through you know personal things or relational things sometimes you just step away I mean comparison is also the thief of joy I think even when it's like you're building a business or something like that I think that's something we struggled with of our friends are all at college having fun yeah they're like partying every weekend and then it's like we're in the office sweating it out yeah and obviously like there's pros to each side but I do think like when do you think that you started to realize you needed to just focus on your own journey I mean there's so much especially with social it's like you see what everyone is posting and of course they're posting the best things and naturally you just are like oh wow that's nice like I wonder when I'm gonna get there or when we're gonna get there but the fact is that there's this saying do you guys know about the Chinese bamboo tree yes yes I love I love love this story of a Chinese bamboo tree it takes five years for a Chinese bamboo tree to even get above the ground right but once it hits the ground within like three months it grows like 90 feet so the question is did it take three months to grow or did it take five years and the answer is five years but people only see what what hits the surface and they're like oh my god they did that in three months i have to work faster i'm so behind but they don't see what was going on behind the scenes especially for you guys too right like all the late nights like the years of work that you were doing even within college and but people are just seeing now on social oh my god they had this amazing podcast they had chris jenner on their podcast they had all these fancy people you know and this incredible business everyone's talking about it but you guys are probably feeling like oh my god i'm so tired i put in so much work but so it's like we can't compare ourselves to other people because we just don't know the amount of work that went on before you actually see it surface.

16:47Oh yeah, like they didn't see all the tears. There's a lot of tears, a lot of late nights of me and Sophia just like exhausted even with each other or figuring that we had so many things we tried too before this to like get this to work. I feel like, I think my ego died. For Fleur, the rebrand, like we talk about the importance of branding and how you like change the branding, how you rebranded it and what the effects have been now because you guys are taking off. Oh, thank you. Well, Fleur is my baby and I'm just so proud of how far it's come. I was so proud of the work that was put into for before we actually even launched it.

17:20I think during that time, I think it was post COVID, everyone was kind of coming out of their shell. And they're feeling that too, that feeling of like kind of anxiety and loneliness. And I think that story resonated with so many people. And so when we launched Missing Person, I was like, I don't know how this is going to work. Because one, we're not at any retailers, We're not at Sephora. We're not, people can't go to a counter to smell the scent before they actually purchase it. And back then, blind buying fragrance was unheard of. And that was only, what, like three and a half years ago, right?

17:53Blind buying now for fragrance is a hot thing. But back then, it really wasn't. And so I was like, if we could sell maybe 10, I'll be happy on launch day. And now you guys are doing$100 million in revenue annually. You guys are in the UK and America. can you talk me through what did the marketing plan look like it was through that storytelling of what i was going through that vulnerability that rawness that people were like huh i see her i feel that way too i don't know how this smells it sounds intriguing so let's give it a try and so we garnered a 250 ,000 personal wait list on missing person on on launch week which was absolutely insane I couldn't I thought the system was broken I was like clearly this like the website's crashing like something is wrong as a small business we didn't have massive amounts of budget and so we're like okay the we can do a nice like little gifting moment for people that we love and influencers that have supported us along the way and hope that it'll hit at some point and that's really that was really our strategy was just building relationships with people that we respected online and we didn't have a big marketing budget at all and it was through just genuine excitement specifically on tiktok where people were like oh my god what am i smelling and i was always afraid that something could be a one hit wonder right after we were so lucky that our very first scent that we launched missing person was a massive hit but it was also something that was so scary for me it just shows you the power of being vulnerable authentic showing up as your real self and just sharing stories and i think that's what you guys are really great at too of just sharing your founder's story of what made you come to this point of starting your business.

19:57What do you do when like shit is hitting the fan? Like, you know, like sales are down, et cetera. Do you have any like routine hacks for like how you recover from burnout or when you're just feeling exhausted or you're feeling down about something? I see what you did there with the burnout. I love that conversation, by the way, burnouts. And I love that your podcast is called the burnout because I think the whole goal is to not get to that point the joke is like will we burn out we're trying because in your 20s you're expected to do everything have relationships be an adult like figure out how to like you know live alone for the first time not be surrounded by your friends in college like you have your first job like so the kind of joke is like how the hell do you not burn out in your 20s with such expectations too yeah and I think burnout is natural like you learn about yourself as you burn out you learn about your boundaries that you have to make what you can handle what you can't handle what you're good at what you're not good at so I think burnouts in your 20s like you can't really avoid them I think if anything you want to burn out in your 20s so you don't burn out later on in your life I burnt out a lot in my 20s where I was go go go go go and I was all about getting as much as I can done and trying everything and anything and I would burn out and how I would burn out I'm kind of embarrassed to say but I would just disappear like I just wouldn't I would just sleep and I like would not pick up anyone's call that's how what I how I dealt with it in my 20s you guys are a lot smarter what we do really we literally like it one of us will FaceTime we're both in bed we'll be like AWOL off the phone just to sleep like all day Saturday sometimes all you need to do is like not talk to anyone not get dressed and just like have breakfast lunch dinner in your bed and be like don't want to talk to anybody that's how I dealt with burnout in my 20s.

21:47Nowadays, it's a little different because I'm I have kids and all that. And I don't burn out anymore because I know my limits. So I think in your 20s, it's really important to stretch yourself to understand at what point you're about to burn out, because now I'm like, oh, I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Let's let's kind of scale back a little bit. So I think when it comes to business for me, I I used to be about speed all the time and doing as much as I could because I felt like time was limited but the biggest difference now is I'm a lot more intentional because when you're going so fast and you're doing so much and you're just kind of like throwing everywhere hoping that things will work out it's messy and sometimes something will stick but most part you're just exhausted right and so I think for me now it's more about going slower.

22:44I'm a lot slower than before, but I'm a lot more intentional and I'm a lot more focused. I think burning out is essential in your twenties just to understand like your limits. So something you mentioned though, that is really interesting to me is, and something I feel has been really true through your careers. You're never complacent, but you always are focused on you started one venture, then you started another one, or even like the COVID pivots that you made. and I think even for us like we launched our company and then it was like a week later all I could think of was wait what if we become irrelevant like our launch went well but what if people stop downloading us and then it's like you feel motivated again but also a little bit worried of like how do I keep upping the stakes of keep going and going like how did that pan out for you why do you think that you you've developed this trait of like okay you have a successful launch then you're like oh shit well I need to make sure people keep going on the website like how do you keep upping the stakes?

23:38I think it's just the nature of business. You have to evolve or you're going to die. And that that's the harsh reality. And so the anxiety that you feel of like having to keep producing and having to figure out the next thing, it's a real thing. Because of the fact is, there's a lot of competitors, right? There's a lot of people out there that That also will take your idea and will make it better. For Fleur, when we launched the first year, it was all about us. But the next year, we had a lot of incredible fragrance brands that came out as well that I respect so much now. But the stakes are higher now, right?

24:20And so it's really important that you're on your toes consistently, especially in the beginning of your career. And it's it's so essential that you understand the landscape of what's going on. So I do understand that that feeling of, OK, what's next? And waking up being like, OK, are we still relevant? Because I still go through that sometimes. Right. But I think it's managing your emotions and not having it eat you alive. I think in my 20s, I did not know how to manage my emotions. If I was going through one work problem or a relational problem, I became frozen. I couldn't do anything else. Whereas now I'm like, okay, let's park that and we'll figure that out.

25:05And let's go on to the next thing and focus on that and I'll come back to it. So I think it's really about kind of managing your emotions and being able to not, you're not a reflection of what's going on in your business.

25:29What are your habits for success? Like, do you have a certain time you wake up now that you have kids? I put kind of parameters and boundaries in my life where the things that I know make me feel good. And if I don't do those things, I know I will feel like shit for the rest of the day. And so I built in habits. And I think that's why a lot of people do wake up at a certain time. That's why they do work out in the mornings. and I've learned to clean my closet cluttered house cluttered closet cluttered desk is a cluttered mind and so I see you always use that as an excuse of like oh I'm just like a creative yeah no my creative brain was messy so now if you go to my house I can't say I'm like the cleanest person but everything has a place and a space I put my stuff away and we've made a lot of progress since the early 20s right but I have a very clear mind I have my inner energy reflects my outer world now right and so I don't even have to really think about putting my stuff away it just kind of happens and those are kind of habits that I do and my closet is people will be surprised they're like oh my god you must have a crazy closet no I don't I have become habitual on getting rid of things because for me the biggest frustration is when i can't find things and when there's too many options i don't work well with options i like to just see the things that i like i'm an outfit repeater i like to repeat things that i love so much girl yeah conscious consumer yeah i become a conscious consumer i wasn't before before it was more and more and more and more and until you get to a point where you're like i feel like i have less even if i have more and so i got rid of 90 of my closet and my i think i have like five handbags that i really love that i continue to repeat all the time and i'm proud of my the stuff that i have i think that's so interesting because there's a lot of entrepreneurs where it's like they wear the same thing every single day it's like their uniform, but it's because of paralysis of choice where that little friction of having to think about, Oh my God, what am I going to wear today?

27:48It just like bogs down your energy for the rest of the day where as if you start on a start like strong foot of, I already know what I'm doing. It just helps prep you for success. And that kind of ties into, I would love to understand you have so much going on that you have your own personal brand. Then you have these ventures. What does your day to day look like? Like how do you split your time? every day looks really different but we schedule out things so i only have to use one side of the brain at a time because before i we used to just like plug in filming to meetings to brainstorming to and it would just i would have to go from right to left right stuff and that's exhaustion talk about burnout right yeah like that's brain burnout and so i've learned to maximize my brain so if I am focused solely on business I will focus on just meetings for Monday Tuesday are my flur days I'm in the office all the meetings that my team needs to get done with me happens on Thursday Tuesday for flur Wednesdays are my content day no one can bother me for a meeting I don't unless it's like an absolute emergency because I'm now using my creative side of the brain and so I really focus on because I still create content.

29:06I still work with a lot of brands and so I want to focus on delivering the best creative content and I cannot do that if I'm having to do both at the same time. So I've just learned how to like maximize my days with one side of my brain at a time without having to burn out. I'm so impressed. You guys are literally, you guys were just a team of 12. Now you're a team of 30 at Fleur and you guys are doing an insane amount in revenue between the US and the UK. How do you like, especially for our listeners who are getting involved in, you know, applying to jobs, looking for their first jobs, how do you scout like exceptional talent?

29:40And what do you look for? Do you have any resume hacks you would recommend? I mean, that's always, I think talent is the hardest part in building a team. Say it again. We did not listen to that enough. And I don't think we understood like everyone says that. And I think we had to learn that for ourselves too, because it really is. You're asking people, hey you know come believe in this vision come work harder than you ever would have before probably take a pay cut to come work at a startup but hey believe you know that this piece of the pie is going to be worth you know 100x in the future i think part of it's also like anything in the beginning you think you can do so much yeah you can do it thought we could do everything we were like marketing operations we're trying to code we're doing we can do all of it and i think when you realize holy shit i'm really stretched thin then you're like i need to find someone who's as good as me at this thing.

30:25And that's really challenging. But I think that's also like a really practical lesson for people in their 20s of you need to learn what you're good at. Yeah. And then understand where you need to fill in. I'm curious how you were like, this is what I want to focus on in the business. And then here's the other stuff where I want people to slot in. I always knew that I had a very strong creative mind. That's always been my strong suit. So every business that I built, I knew that and I'm a very self aware person. And so just like you guys be having each other, I knew that I need to have a partner for any business that I start that I refuse to do a business alone.

31:03And I give so much props to solo entrepreneurs, founders, because that is literally the hardest thing. So I'm able to show up and be like, this is what I'm great at. Of course, you can't ignore what you're not great at. I think over time, the goal is to somewhat get better at things that you're not great at, just so you have an understanding of what's going on within your business. But really spending 80 to 90 percent of your time on what you're really good at. And then same thing with my partners in any of my ventures and businesses. They're great at the operational. They're great at production.

31:41They're great at the things that I'm not incredible at. And so we know our grounds and we're able to utilize that. I think speaking of burnout is when you're trying to do everything. And I get it. When you first start a business, you have to do everything. You have no other choice. You don't have, you know, the resources to be able to hire a team. You don't. But that is part of the journey. And that's why I say you have to burn out in the beginning, because along the way, you're like, God, I cannot do this anymore alone. okay where can i invest the the small amount of money that i've made to get the support that i need on this side and then once you realize that you have brought on someone on the team that could help you and again finding talent is very very challenging but once you do find that person you're like okay this has freed up this side now i could go here and focus more on this and then your team slowly starts to expand and so going back to your question i'm going to be really honest with you of course we work with um recruiters and people to help us find the right talent but I think the best best talent that we found is always the referral yeah is someone saying I've worked with this person and I could vouch for her we did we were incredible partners she was a great boss or whatever that was and that is more I think it's more important to me than a resume to be honest because a resume you can make a resume look fancy right you could anyone could be like I did this isn't this and you could be like wow that's impressive but what really matters especially when it comes to startups is the energy that you're able to to have with one another.

33:30It's a small team. You're spending a lot of time doing a lot of different things together, right? Of course, you have to have the technical skills of whatever you're looking for, but it comes down to character. It comes down to energy. It comes down to how well you guys mesh, and you can't write that down on a resume, right? And so I always tell people, I have to date you for a while before we actually commit to each other because I'm not committing until we're vibing, right? Until we really get a good sense. Look, in a bigger corporation, things are a little bit different. But in a startup world, like I have the ability to be like, okay, let's get coffee.

34:07Let's get coffee 10 times. Right? Let's stay until 2 a.m. together every night. I really need to get to know you. Right? Before I commit to actually getting into bed with you. Yeah. How did you find the partners that you're with right now in your different ventures? I'll referral. I'll referral. like how I met Ben my business partner for Fleur was through this is you guys would appreciate the story it was through Juliana who is my Fleur's publicist but I used to be her intern what I was her intern when I was in college she was working a showroom and I wanted to be in fashion I was going to fashion school so i interned at her showroom and this shows you the power of just showing up and being a great worker because i thought i would like honestly i didn't even like it but i was like i'm gonna show up every day yeah i'm gonna put in my best work and this might not be for me but i committed to starting it so let's finish this internship and i finished it we kind of Captain Tetran there in the fashion world and you know 20 years later I get a call from Juliana and be like hey I have a friend who is who is looking for this I think you'll be the right fit and she was my word of mouth to meeting my business partner today it's like fate almost you believe in fate a little bit I absolutely believe in fate but I also believe in showing up regardless of the situation if you told me back then when I was interning as a college student that I would be running a multi-million dollar fragrance company I would not have believed you but it was simply because I showed up to my job and I did a good job that led one thing to another to another so I always tell people even whatever you're doing right now whether you're in college whether you're you know an intern for someone else and it just feels mundane and you're getting someone coffee do the best freaking job be the best coffee delivery bamboo tree you're going the five years the bamboo exactly mine took 20 years mine took about 20 years but yes it's a bamboo tree it's it's absolutely correct you just never know where your path is going to lead you and so you just have to always show up Sal thank you so much for coming on the burnouts we learned so much from you so much that we of course decided to partner with you on creating our own fleur x burnouts candle so you guys can now burn this instead of burning out i love that i mean i'm so excited for you guys once i heard what you guys are doing i'm like we gotta do something with them they're they're on fire i'm literally glowing because it's so funny because we literally used to burn your candles in our dorm room and be like wow she's so badass like should we do fragrances Let's research the fragrance industry.

37:12Like, and so it feels so full circle to be working together. I mean, like I said, you never know what's around the corner. So I mean, we should have known it was, it was an Easter. We both manifested it. I manifested you guys into my life as well. So we created our rich mom business lady in our head and it was you. But thanks guys so much for listening. Check out our candle and tune in next week for another episode of the burnouts.