Meet the Pre-Med Nerd Who Modeled for Sports Illustrated and Became a $6M Forbes Creator (@haleyybaylee)

23:03But I hope I delivered it in like a comedic way that was fun to laugh at and giggle at. So it wasn't as like hard to digest. I want to talk about divorce generally because there's such a stigmatization in our society of women who do get divorced. And I'm saying this as someone who's never been married, never had kids, but I've watched my mother go through this because my parents had a very, very public divorce. And I see in every single interview she does, they're trying to tie it back to my father or the divorce or pitting on questions around that. And I think there is such an onus we put on women in society when a marriage isn't working to have the woman make it work and to make it, you know, get through or this idea that, you know, she has to be the person to fix it.

23:42So I'm curious how that, you know, have you faced backlash from getting a divorce? How do you think about that? And then just talk me through more about the emotional processing of your past abusive relationship as well after the divorce. Yeah. Divorce, it's so funny how stigmatized it is. It's crazy. Especially on women, it does. It almost falls on the shoulders and they're like, how did you fail? And you're like, you can have a moment where two people just, my ex-husband is the greatest man. Truly, I am blessed to have ever had him in my life, truly. And I'm grateful that he's still a part of my life.

24:13He's married now, he loves his privacy. So I always put a disclaimer like, guys, please respect his privacy whenever I talk about him because I would hate to have my, you know, like business skyrocketed to, you know, every media, whatever, just because my partner is involved in social media. So the loveliest person, we got married very, very young. We also had a very different ideas for what we wanted in the future. He wanted kids very young and I wasn't ready. I was also, we were dealing with, I had some health issues that we were dealing with. So there was just a lot going on there. And we just decided we are just supposed to be friends.

24:47Like we aren't meant for each other romantically. Do you regret the marriage? No, no, not at all. Like he taught me so much. And I'm so grateful I got to see like the good in a man. Like in New York, sometimes in the dating world, like you, you forget that good men exist. And he was such, he's such a good man. Like he, we shared a lawyer through our whole divorce. I was on, we were on the same phone plan. until like last year. That's crazy. That is not a burnout piece of advice for getting people. You were still on the same phone plan until last year. Like we are so chill. We're both very similar people and we're like, we loved each other and we still do love each other in like a very friend way.

25:23Like he is a great person and why wouldn't I, like why wouldn't we separate in a way that's kind to each other? And so like he left the divorce with what he came with and I left the divorce with what I came with and it was really easy but still to this day there will be articles that are like, I don't want to say his name for privacy reasons, but it'll say his name, ex-wife, makes Forbes list. And it's like, why are we still assigning a woman's success to, I never even touched social media like very much, except for in the modeling world when I was married to him. And still they'll tie him into it, which is just crazy.

25:59So I understand the pressure. Truly, they'll continue to try to tie it to your ex for as long as you live, even if it's been seven years. It's insane. But then after that, I think I was lucky that I didn't blow up during the time of the divorce, right? So a lot of people don't even know that I was married. I talk very openly about it. But unless you've seen a podcast or watched my long-form videos, I have a couple on YouTube where I talk about processing divorce and loss. You wouldn't even know. So I was lucky in that almost like mainstream media wasn't involved in my divorce the same way a lot of influencers when they rise and then they get a divorce, TMZ's involved and they're stirring up drama and they're trying to pit you against your ex.

26:40And like, I'm very grateful that I wasn't in the public eye when I was going through my divorce. After you get a divorce, especially when you're married young, you don't really know what you're looking for in a relationship and you fall into toxic cycles very, very easily because you almost like start needing somebody. You don't want to admit it, but you're like, you're so used to having your best friend there that you almost like cling to anyone. And that's where I fell into an abusive relationship because somebody love bombed me and he seemed like the perfect dream man that would rescue me after this divorce.

27:10And he didn't care that I was divorced and all this stuff. And then, yeah, that's when the toxic cycle starts. Well, you're such a successful woman now and you've done it completely on your own. And something we've talked about with a lot of our guests is when you are so successful, it becomes increasingly harder to date. Very. And so what has that looked like for you as you've navigated new relationships. There's almost like a challenge from men in your relationship when you're successful. And I never thought I would run into this, but men face the same type of like pressure as we do. It's just in a different way, right?

27:43And men face the pressure to be like super successful. And I think when their woman is successful and sometimes in other people's eyes, even more successful than them, they almost feel judged for that. And I think it creates pressure in relationships when like their friends are like oh your girl's paying like oh your girl has a nicer place oh your girl this and so they feel pressure to be successful and almost it causes strife in a relationship where like you almost butt heads career wise which is the first time in my life I've ever dealt with that but I also get it because men do have this like insane pressure to be successful and women for some reason people don't expect us to be successful so I've noticed that that there's just a lot of pressure on men and that creates a lot of strife in a relationship what's the craziest dating story you have oh man I mean like I've even just posted with like men in the background and people will be like that was he's dating this girl like avoid him Drew that's true watch out for Drew my girls will find anything and I'm like thank God they are looking out for me like I'm I'm very thrilled but you also give up privacy when you do what I do for a living but that's one of the sacrifices you make right like i get to do amazing things i get to like go to the oscars like you have to give up something in order to get that

29:08how did you end up going to the oscars the met gala all of these opportunities you definitely are very unique as a creator in the sense that i've seen you in the cultural zeitgeist so many times over and over again in a way that is so impressive. What do you think is kind of that secret to landing those opportunities? For me, it's so funny. All of this stuff in my career almost happened like randomly. And by chance, I feel very lucky. The red carpets happened because originally, I had been nominated for a streamie. So I didn't know even what the streamies were at the time because I just started in social media.

29:39And they're like the Oscars for social media. Kind of like the Webby's. They're very similar. So I was nominated. I went to the streamies. And my ex-boyfriend and I were there. We were just chilling at the bar. We'd lost to Mr. Beast. So we were like, hey, at least we lost to the best, you know, the best in the game. And we're just drinking champagne. And this guy comes up and he just starts hanging out with us. And his name was Jeremy. And we're like, this guy's cool. We just exchanged numbers, thought like, oh, cool. We made a friend, had no idea what he did. Four days before the Golden Globes, two years ago, he texts me, Jeremy, and he's like, want to go to the Golden Globes?

30:12And I was like, Jeremy from the stream. He's like, am I getting scammed? Like, what is this? There's no way. And so of course, I call him and I figure out that he works for Dick Clark Productions, who's the production company that puts on the Golden Globes. So it wasn't a scam. It was true. He invites me to the Globes. I fly out there. I get a dress from my friend Mark, who's done every dress that I've worn to every red carpet. Fly to the Globes, stay at the hotel. And then the day of the Globes, I remember texting Jeremy and I was like, oh my gosh, when I was little, this was my dream to see this stuff.

30:43Like it was my dream to even just like attend the Oscars in the far bleachers of the auditorium. Like I would apply to be a seat filler when I was in college. So I asked, I was like, can I take content here? Can I post content? And he said, as long as you're respectful of the celebrities and you like always make sure that, you know, their teams are cool with the videos and things like that, then you have free reign. And I think I filmed like 20 videos, posted them and within the first day on Instagram alone there was like 200 million views. 200 million? Yeah and I think after like in the coming days on everything it was like a billion views.

31:18It was insane. So people just want to see like like I did when I was little just want to see what's going on at the red carpets and then because that did so well I was then invited to the Grammys, People's Choice, the Oscars, then again the next year Golden Globes, SAG Awards. And how did the Met Gala happen? So the Met was actually I never attended the Met. The Met, I was working as an E correspondent. So through YouTube, that's why don't sleep on YouTube. YouTube connects you with brands and partners. And E had reached out that they had a position at the Mark Hotel, which if you're like a huge Met fan like me, I'm like obsessed with the Met.

31:53It's like my Super Bowl. There are these different hotels around the Metropolitan Museum where people get ready. The Mark is one, a bunch of people wait outside, a bunch of news places report from there. So E was looking for a YouTuber to come like be kind of a side host at the Mark Hotel. And they had reached out to YouTube. Oh, like correspondences. Exactly. Yeah. So I was there just like talking to all the celebrities before they left then for the Met. So they leave outside. Those are those like really cool photos you see of like, you know, Doja when she wore like the bathrobe. Like that's where they have kind of their first look.

32:25A lot of them this past year were in big coats because they were trying to like cover their look. And then they reveal it at the Met, which is like five miles up the road. I know that there was a controversy after the Met. You had made a video and the Mary Antoinette joke. So why did you decide to post the video? And then what did you think when people responded? Yeah, that actually, like first off, before I even get into it, I am forever sorry for what happened that day. And I am forever sorry for posting something with an audio that would ever make anyone feel less than, make anyone feel like I was mocking a situation.

32:58Like that was a very tense time. And I know we're still going through tense times. And so I want to be respectful of that, first and foremost. Like, I am so sorry that that ever even went online. But the backstory is there was a trending audio that was in, like, the top 10 trending list on TikTok. And I was wearing, it was, like, a French-inspired outfit because the theme for the Met that year was a Garden of Time, which is about these aristocrats that are, like, hiding in their house as, I guess, the peasant folk are coming to kill them. and they're picking these flowers out of a garden to try to like pause time to like save them time and eventually you know they run out of flowers and eventually you know the townspeople get their get their revenge on these aristocrats so we went with like a very French couture look because unfortunately in French history we know there's a lot of abuse of power and things like that so when we took a picture of the outfit on TikTok you can take a picture and it'll like choose a sound it came up with that sound and so my hairstylist at the time was like oh my god this is such a good sound like this is from a movie like it's from a chick flick it's Kristen Dunst and I was like oh Slay like let's go like I'm not knowing anything which I'm I'm really glad that that happened because now I take so much more time in choosing the things that I post and I really try to do my due diligence of like checking to make sure that like nothing is associated with the sounds that I'm choosing.

34:22But I filmed it really quick, like outside of the Mark Hotel. The people who are standing behind me were just people waiting to go see celebrities like leave the hotel. And then you see me posting with this sound. It was just very tone deaf. And it came across in the completely wrong way than I ever anticipated. I never even knew that that phrase was associated with anything. Like I went to that small church school. And trust me, we were not learning about like French history. We were learning like biblical stuff. So I just, I felt awful. I handled it in probably not a great way because I was very like frantic.

34:58I didn't know what to say. And I still sometimes don't know what to say because I feel so bad that I ever made people feel like I'd make fun of them in a time like that, or that I'd poke fun at something like that. Like truly, I will be forever sorry for that. Two things that I love that you did there. It It sounds like you're a very emotionally aware person. You, first of all, you apologize. You take complete accountability without excuses. And then number two, I love that you talk about how it's adapting your process going forward. And I think that that's something we can all learn. Taking accountability is hard.

35:27So I like that you did that and then talked about how you adapt kind of going forward. So that's what I am curious about is I think for content creators, it is hard because you have such a big platform. There's so much going on in the world constantly that your fans probably want you to speak about certain topics. And so how is that something that you've dealt with as your career has evolved? Oh, man, that one, I think it's actually one of the hardest elements because, number one, I do comedy. So I want my page to be a place where people can escape kind of that negative news cycle, which is very real.

36:00The negative news cycle is real people's lives, like real people dying. And so it's hard to ignore. And it shouldn't be ignored. And I think that that's something I struggled with originally was like, I want to ignore it. Like I want my place to, you know, my page to be happy all the time, all the time. But like you have to, you have to talk about those things. You don't have to talk about it all the time, but you need to just be a normal person. And I think like a lot of the times when you're first starting out, people get in your head and they almost like scare you away from your voice because they're like, what if people disagree?

36:31What if, you know, people come out and say this and this and this, but like I grew my page just as me being me. and so I have to be me in everything including like what I stand for um and so now I speak to my audience like I would speak to my friends and I'm like listen like what was going on with with the ice situation and like no matter what side you are on the political aisle like it's hard to watch families being ripped apart and it's hard to watch kids cry and it's hard to watch people wonder where their father is and like you can talk about that you know and I think I was scared to talk about that for fear of upsetting people but now I'm like you know what that made me sad so I'm going to tell my community because I hope that somebody else who's feeling that way can then identify that like oh other people are also sad or scared or worried and then I posted a video a couple weeks ago because I didn't know what to do I was like what should I do and I asked my community I was like do you want me to post funny videos do you want me to post resources do you want me to post a combo like what do you need from me at this time because like they gave me my platform and I owe it to them to be posting the things that people want during that time and so I think it's just being honest and raw what did they say they said a mix like a lot of people said comedy they said I want your page to be an escape a lot of people said you know use your stories to to post things or occasionally post a video just talking to us like the same way I did in the last video and it almost feels nice to like talk to people like people in the world of like PR and like all these things that you have to do.

38:02It's been nice to just talk to my community. That's such a good idea. You just asked them, what do you want me to post? And then you're able to do that. What advice would you give to other people who are starting out in their content creation journey to be able to hone in to understand what they should talk about and how they should find their voice? Ask your community, truly. Like I feel like that's something that a lot of people don't do that I'm glad that I did. Like ask your people, really get to know your community. That's why YouTube is so slept on. Like you've got long form there where you can really talk to people.

38:33Like I started filming my first long forms, just me sitting on the couch talking about my divorce because I was processing my divorce. And like the way I process is almost by yapping about it. So I just sat on the couch, filmed myself and then like edited it on iMovie. But you really find your community there and you can really like talk to people and almost find your voice through them. But also trial and error, like play around content is fun it's not supposed to be scary and tough like although there are some sides of it that are tough like navigating cultural and social issues or like navigating hate comments that's always going to be hard but content's fun like I feel very blessed that I get to do it because it's so much fun so like play around with it like really try all the craziest things you've thought of all the weirdest ideas like play around in your community will help you hone in on your voice.

39:22I know so many people have huge audiences, huge followings, and they struggle with the monetization piece of not knowing, okay, I have a community. What does that look like from a business perspective? How do I make money and sustain myself? So what advice would you give to people like that? For me, I think first and foremost, try to sustain just your everyday costs with ad revenue. Like you don't want to be the content creator that has to consistently look for like a branded content deal in order to make money or you're going to eventually sign on to branded content deals that aren't authentic.

39:54You know what I mean? If you're constantly chasing that and you're like, I have to pay my rent, like I need to sign something, make sure that you have that ad revenue that's just like consistently coming in so that you're not just pulling off of these like one-off brand deals that eventually you could, you know, be working for a product that you don't actually believe in and we never want to be in that side of content. So really invest in like platforms like YouTube and Instagram that are monetizing, like truly, they are going to be your best friend. You can make so much just like income coming in every single month off of never having to do a piece of branded content off of just your normal content, your comedy content, you talking, it could be podcasting, if anything.

40:29So really, really, really like invest in those platforms that give you that ad revenue so that you're not just looking for every branded content piece that like comes your way. And then what does it look like of if you look at the estimated like six million dollars you made yeah if you were to break that down what percentage is the ad revenue what percentage is the brand deals walk us through what is your business empire oh man the brand deals I'd say are a big chunk of it because you sign like long-term deals with your branded partners and you have certain posts throughout like the year that you post with them um so I'll sign like a few long-term deals um but the ad revenue is probably over a million just ad revenue So that's just the stuff coming from like YouTube.

41:10So like you can make really, really good money just off of that. That is shocking. I did not know that. Oh my God. Like the same with Snapchat. Like Snapchat, there was a time where you can make$25 ,000 from one video, one 10 second video. And that can still happen on YouTube. Like one of my most viral shorts, it's like a video that's like 20 seconds long, has made me like$20 ,000. Same with Instagram. Instagram's bonus program. They're like starting it out, which I'm very thankful. because content creators are scared of, you know, like investing their time and energy into this if they're not gonna make money.

41:44And these accounts like Meta, YouTube, they make so much ad money. So like, it's nice when they give you a cut, YouTube gives more of a cut to the creators than to themselves. That's why a lot of people love YouTube. But invest in these, like on Instagram in the bonus program, on the views on just like reels, if you get like, I think like 10 million and up views, you get like$1 ,000 a video. I mean, these are 10 second videos. So like don't sleep on these programs. Truly don't sleep on these programs because like you don't need to be reaching out to every single brand. Like you can really get that money in ad revenue.

42:16You have great financial acumen. I love that. You know all these numbers. You're connecting them together. And then what does like an ad deal look like? What how do you make money from a brand deal? What does that typically look like? Yeah, it's just like you work with a brand. There are rates that I don't even know how they're calculated. I feel like my manager can answer more. There's like industry standard contracts that you usually sign with these like big corporations that they set the rate. So it's like they know with, you know, your engagement with this. But what's a typical ballpark? It completely depends.

42:45Really? It really completely depends. Like I'll work with people sometimes just because I really like like I like their product. Like there are certain times that I'll work for a company almost for free because I really I like what they do. Or it's just a natural organic thing. Like I love Neutrogena makeup wipes. I don't think I've done a brand deal for Nutra-Tina makeup wipes, but I use them in so much of my content 24-7 because I use them. So it's like those are the deals where you'll sign on to like a long-term partnership. And that's usually set by those companies. They're such big companies that they have these standardized rates.

43:18So usually managers set those or if you're big enough, like you work through these creator agencies that set the rates and like I'm never a part of that negotiation. So I actually have no idea like how they calculate it. Do you go out and pitch yourself for a brand deal? That's why it's so important to have a manager that's hungry and fights for you. Because like her name's Haley. That's why we started working together. I'm like, we need to interview you next. Seriously. She's amazing. But like if I film a video in a Target, just because like I'm always in a Target, sometimes she'll send it to Target and be like, hey guys, Haley filmed this video in a Target.

43:50And like that's where you want to have a manager that believes in you and fights for you. because like she believes that you know if I really like a product that me talking about it will hopefully make other girls want to buy the product because I like the product you know I hope that that's the way it is she'll also receive like inbound a lot of companies will contact managers through Instagram through YouTube through just their management and ask like hey is Haley interested in working with us yeah so it's both so you need a hungry manager a hungry manager because there's so there's just so many content creators out there and I think we're inundated to with like ads.

44:24There's just so much out there. So being really selective and finding like a manager that fights for you and is like authentic in the brand deals that you choose is really important. Over time, as you've been getting all these brand deals and now are named like one of Forbes top creators, what are the email hacks that you've learned that we can give to our audience? Okay, I'm going to credit my manager because I do not know any of the email hacks. She is a monster on email. I am horrible at email. So like she handles that. I feel like it's a dream team of the two Haley's like coming together. It's perfect.

44:53It's like Haley squared. I'm like, but no, uh, for her, she will usually use like pieces of content that I've filmed organically and send them to brands. So like, like I was talking about with Neutrogena, right? Like I use the makeup wipes in everything and every video you're, if I'm taking off makeup or using makeup, you're probably going to see a Neutrogena makeup wipe. She'll take that video or a collection of videos, send it to Neutrogena, be like Haley Bailey times Neutrogena. And we'll be like, Hey, you know she filmed these they performed really well um this is she really loves the brand like let's set a call let's let's do something and here's why like her views are doing this or like she's going to the oscars or she's going to be at the golden globe soon like this would be a good time to capitalize on like red carpet content or she keeps it short but she'll use a video that i already have posted that's organic and send it to the brand and your audience then appreciates it because they're like oh i heard her talk about neutrogena last week now she has a brand partnership with them but I don't think it's an ad because she already was talking about it yeah you always like authenticity is everything online especially I think when you're talking to women we can sniff out like inauthentic really really fast and I think Gen Z and Gen Alpha especially in the digital space are really really good at sniffing that out because like they've seen ads their entire life and they're like ew no swipe so like staying authentic in your brand partners is so important Do you turn down big deals?

46:14Constantly. If it's something that I don't use, I have a lot of young followers. And my biggest fear is ever that there is a young girl who saved up money to buy something that I advertised, and then it's a piece of garbage. I owe that to her to not do that to her. You know what I mean? The only reason I have my platform is because of young women like her. So I owe that to them to never advertise something that I do not use and that I would not spend my own money on. I really respect that. Thank you. And something I wanted to circle back to that you said I thought was really interesting is that you said my revenue target was$50 ,000 because after taxes, after all these deductions, then that's how much I'm left with.

46:50You make this money on paper, but then there's all these things that are subtracted from it. What does that look like for creators, like the typical costs? Ooh, taxes are high. Wow. Oh, my gosh. And like it's you don't even realize because I was used to like a salary position in my old jobs, right? when you're paid salary, it gets deducted right away out of your paycheck. Like you don't even have to think about it. And then at the end of the year, you know, I wasn't making, I'd say, more than$75 ,000 a year. So I was getting money back. I had no idea. You have to pay in. So for me, I pay quarterly just because of the amount of money you make.

47:25You'd hate to like have to pay like$4 million in at the end of the year. But you anticipate 60 % of your money is going to go to taxes. 60 %? Living in New York City, yeah. Yeah. It's like you have state tax, which I believe our state is one of the highest, if not the, I think California and then New York. Also, like at the same time, like I want to pay my fair share. And then what about, because there's the management fee deduction. Management, yeah, it's anywhere I think industry standard in film is 10, up to, I think it's up to 25 in digital. It just completely depends on your manager and the deal that you have.

47:58I know people that are at 10, I know people at 15, I know people at 20, and 25. I'd say it just completely depends on your relationship. But yeah, the management gets a cut as well. But they deserve a cut, like my management hustles. So she deserves what she takes. And then you also have the cost, like a lot of content creators like Dorman, right, have like studios of people that film. For me, it's just me and my phone. Like I have an assistant that's one of my best friends. She actually worked as an executive assistant before she worked for me. and when she quit that job I was like oh we're already friends like I really need help I'm drowning can you help me and so she helps like with my dogs and my google calendar but after that everything is just me and what would you say for someone who's trying to build like their platform as you know even like a founder a writer a designer a creative what's the first thing that they should invest time into is it just banging out content is it finding that manager is it finding the right team what would you say is the first kick point that they need to start at finding your voice is you can't build a business off of something that doesn't exist right so like you need to find your voice because your voice is your business.

49:00So comedy has always been the way that I've dealt with trauma or like with anything hard in my life. I'm a dark joke kind of person. Like when bad things happen, like, you know, my background is my dog who died two years ago, ripped my heart from my chest. Like one of the hardest things I've gone through. She's my background on my phone. And when people are like, oh, is that your dog? I'm like, yeah, she's dead. Like it just, humor just helps me process. And like, that's why I was able to find my voice so quickly because I was going through a lot of like really tough stuff and I found a community of women online that were like you're funny and you matter and you're cool and we really like you and that helped me find my voice really fast but everyone everyone's different some people it's just like setting up a phone and like doing a get ready with me and like talking and just like getting it out like Katie Fang like she just she cried while doing her makeup getting ready for work and that's what catapulted her to where she is now so like everyone's moment is different but like really just like find what makes you happy.

49:56What's next for you? You've done so much. I mean, you've literally gone from zero to a hundred overnight. You're still doing so much yourself. When you look at the next five, 10 years, what are your other biggest goals? Ooh, I love content so much. So like there's a lot of people that use content to like jump off to write a book or to like go be in movies or to like start a podcast or, you know, whatever it is. I love content. So like if I did this forever, I would be very happy. Like I truly love like brain rot, like a gutter internet. I love it. I love it so much. I love being in the trenches.

50:30But for me, I also, I love traditional media because I was so obsessed with Hollywood growing up and like the award shows. And like the reason I'm so excited to be on those carpets is because that was like my dream. Like I would have cut off my arm and given it to somebody if I could go to the Oscars. Like it was my ultimate dream to be a part of like, or just even a fly on the wall in Hollywood. So I also really love humanizing Hollywood because I've gotten the chance to meet so many amazing people like that are A-listers that are just as confused how they're famous as like anyone else would be.

51:00And they're such real people. And I feel like because of like PR teams and like, you know, this screen in front of them that you don't get a chance to see that they're real people. So I'd love to do something like a marriage between the digital world and Hollywood that like humanizes Hollywood. would because like for so long I think they've dehumanized themselves as being like elite and like untouchable and like so many of them are so cool yeah like I wish people saw that so I would love to do more with like getting A-listers to do like digital sketches it's so fun seeing like your favorite A-list celebrity like an Olivia Rodrigo doing like an internet trend it's just like it's fun it's like a marriage of two worlds and it makes us feel closer as people like we're not as far separated something I've felt like has become a lot more popular is creators also taking equity in their brand deals and doing stuff like that or starting their own brands how do you view the landscape through that lens oh I think that creator led brands are going to be like the future um you're already seeing it with like prime and with uh lunch of like the lunch lunch of what the thing with mr beast yeah yeah lunchly I forget feastables yeah like all of these like again here like unwell I mean you're just seeing so many of these brands for me I I never want to sell something that like somebody would be mad that they wasted their money on.

52:13So for me, like I, before I ever like released a brand, I would have to like really like think about it. And like, it would probably have to be something that's like$3 because I feel uncomfortable selling anything for more than that. But yeah, I think that there's a lot of space to explore there. And equity deals, you saw it with Poppy. I mean, Alex Earl and Poppy, like these companies are being acquired for a lot of money. So there's so much there to play around in. It's just you can't release something that feels in like inauthentic. And then final pieces of advice that you would want to leave our audience with from everything you've learned over the last few years.

52:50Oh man. If I can do it, you can do it. Like seriously, I had so much self-doubt in this. I truly, after I got divorced and when I was like about to move out of my apartment that I'm now living in which is crazy. I felt like very rock bottom. Like I felt very like I failed at life. Like I'm going to move home. I'm divorced. I'm, I don't have a career. And all of that changed in a second. And like, I was so low in that moment. And then it took other people literally just believing in me and like women commenting, like, girl, you're funny. Or like, or like, wow, I really like her vibe. And like, your life can change in a second if you just like believe in it and let it and like let let it guide you I don't know it's hard to explain but like trust your gut and really follow like what you feel like you need to go do because I probably would have never been here if I didn't like risk it all on a really big out there dream of mine so go for it yeah go for it trust me go for it thank you so much for coming on the burnouts thanks for having me