Best game you've ever seen?

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0:51Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. One of the most thrilling, impressive and entertaining matches in recent memory, followed by a tense battle dominated by tight penalty calls and VAR interference. Well, you can't have it all, I suppose. On today's show, we'll discuss two very different Champions League semi-final first legs as PSG edge Bayern in a thriller and Arsenal are forced to settle for a draw with Atletico. We'll also debate whether Michael Carrick should be given the Manchester United manager's job full-time, look at the latest baffling proposed rule changes and preview another big weekend in the Premier League.

1:27I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today we have the former Ireland, Marseille and Millwall striker Tony Cascarino. The former footballer turned journalist Gregor Robertson is with me as usual and I'm delighted to say, fresh from retaining his title as Sports Journalist Awards Data Journalist of the Year, our very own football reporter and tactical analyst Hamza Khaliq Lunat. A little round of applause, I think, for that one. Where's the trophy? Yeah, where's the trophy? I put it in a drawer at home. Put it in a drawer? Yeah, with the other one. Come on. With the other one, love it. I'm cheating, I'm joking.

1:56Make it up. Hamza, we're on YouTube now. We've got to be like Gary Neville and the lads on the overlap. Get it on the table. Come on. I'll bring it next week. Bring it next week. Bring it next week. But yeah, a huge achievement for Hamza doing what Jurgen Klopp could never do and win back-to-back titles. So, sorry, Hamza. I couldn't help myself. I couldn't help myself. That gag would work better if Alison Rudd was here. Anyway, there's loads and loads to discuss. I think recency would suggest we have to start with Arsenal. But come on. We have to start. No chance. Come on. We have to start with PSG, Bayern Munich.

2:27One of the greatest games of the season, one of the greatest games ever people started talking about. So just kind of some snap answers on how good was it? The greatest game you've ever seen? The greatest technical thing you've ever seen? Most exciting thing you've ever seen? Where are we at? Gregor? It's right up there. It's right up there. We're kind of scratching our heads beforehand to see what other games are. And the Inter-Barca game last year, both legs were extraordinary. but there was something about they were two very different teams there was something about the way both of these teams were totally committed to attacking and going at each other hell for leather throughout the game which was totally spellbinding so it was right up there for me Hamza best game of the season?

3:09definitely yeah best game of the last five years where are you putting it? you like Gregor? I really enjoyed the second leg of Inter Barca last year I thought that was phenomenal you had the Etrebi goal and his story within that. Seeing a centre-back pop up inside the box in the 96th minute to score, because I was doing the report and the goal goes in. You're like, oh, I've got to just, you know. What are you doing there at this time? So that match I love. And because it was a second leg, I think it meant a bit more. But yeah, this is probably just with that. Last week, on Monday's pod, You and Kit had a bit of a pop, didn't you?

3:51Oh, yeah, Hamza's complaining too much about football. You lot had forgot what good football looks like. And I'm glad that these guys were amazing. I'm so excited he was on this show, not only to talk about his award, but to talk about some brilliant football. A perfect time for your return, Hamza. Tony, you've seen a lot of football in your time. Yeah, I have. And, you know, sometimes when you hear somebody say, oh, it's the best game I've ever seen, or he's the best player I've ever seen. And we throw out that comment lightly. I thought it was the most extraordinary game I've ever seen. Right.

4:18for lots of different reasons. You've got three strikers, obviously, playing for Bayern Munich, who are all Premier League players. Yeah. I've gone, obviously, Diaz, and then Alessia and Kane. And then you've had PSG, who had three strikers again. But they used to have Neymar, Messi, obviously, and Mbappé. Yeah. And it's like, the game, how it was played, was amazing. So watch the wingers, Cavusquilla and Douai, well, they were just causing havoc anyway. And then you had, And Lissé and Diaz doing the same thing. I've never seen four wingers in a game have so much productive things happen, make happen.

4:55And it was just extraordinary. No holding midfielder for each team. I mean, it goes against the grain. If you think of people like Caicedo, Declan Rice, Zubamendi, all these type of midfielders, that they sort of negated that. And it was an extraordinary game for many reasons. I think you guys quite rightly mentioned that into Barca game. But as you said, Gregor, that's two clashes of styles, isn't it? The thing about this was that they were both just going out. And I mean, we should credit Bayern Munich for that, shouldn't we? And Vincent Kompany for the fact that a lot of teams have tried different things against this PSG team.

5:29But he went there and said, no, no, look, we're as good attacking as these guys. Even at 5-2, that's what I could not believe. One little word. The approach at 5-2. Go on, Tony. Just think of it. It's such a great game. And the game gets kicked off with kicking it out of play. It just doesn't make sense, does it? Yeah. Don't tell us it's not all wrong. No, but we'll start the game. We'll just kick it out of play. Yeah. Like rugby. Yeah. Start from there. But I think it's the Bayern approach, wasn't it, that has much lent to this? Because we all said, Gregor, you've talked about it on the pod so often.

5:58PSG will never change. Tony, you've said it as well. This is how they play under Enrique. You wouldn't have been upset if Kompany had come and changed, would you? Slightly. I mean, you would have for the spectacle, but you could have understood it. But the way they went at it in the same way, and at 5-2 down, I think that was one of the things that made it so extraordinary for me watching it, was being 5-2 down and you're watching it and they're at home and you're thinking, tie's over. Tie could be done here. And the response, the fact that Bayern had a response and that it was so good. They could have won in the end.

6:28It could have been five or... Like that to me was the most extraordinary thing. Hamza, you've watched Bayern Munich play under Kompany. What is it about them that makes them go like that? Is it just their forward players? It's a belief in the way that they play. And companies unrelenting in that. It's really interesting. You have a lot of defenders that become managers. Companies, one of them, Ashley Cole has just started his managerial career. He's been coaching for a while. And players that are playing very good defenses. And they're like, yeah, I don't want to play like that. I don't want my team to play like that.

6:59I want to entertain. I want attacking football. I trust in the instincts of my players, my attacking players. And I want to empower them to make decisions on the pitch. It's all about just giving them a rough framework, give them a few rules. And we discussed this a few weeks ago. Like, the company says to his players, you can go wherever you want. If Kane, if you want to move all the way to left back, sure, you can drag the player with you. And it works two ways. So what Kane will do is he'll test at the very start of a match. You'll see if an opponent is matching up man-to-man with him, so the center back usually.

7:30And he'll say, okay, let's see how far you go. If you go with me, I'm going to test you and take you to an extreme position. And if you do, that means Elise or Masiala or Diaz can then attack that space that you've left. And if you don't, cool, I'm the spare man in midfield. So that's the calculation he makes. But what company says to them is, all right, all of you guys are free to go where you want. But one rule, you get your shots off in the box. So you finish in the box. And that's it. He gives them a very simple, clear framework. And when I say simple, I mean he communicates it to them simply.

8:00When you watch them, you can tell it's not simple. It is wonderfully complex and so fun, but it relies on those players and their instincts and allowing them to express themselves in the game. It's really cool to watch. It relies on supreme athleticism, like extraordinary technical ability as well. Every player on the pitch. The passing was unbelievable. The speed's the biggest thing to me. I watch the speed of this game and it's just bewildering to me. It's like a different sport to anything, certainly anything I played. and a lot of football you watch. You watched the game the following night and it looked so rigid and so static and stodgy.

8:38That's fine, it can be engrossing in itself. But this was just the speed at which everything happens and the commitment to getting forward. There were times where, there was a moment like last night in the Arsenal game where they played a great little combination of passes on the edge of the box to break free in midfield. And no one ran forward to support the attack. Every time PSG and Bayern do that, they have like four or five bodies just completely running in a straight line. We're going to support this attack. Total commitment to attack. And that's what makes it so exciting. See, just on that, I've always had this discussion with you, Tom, and we've discussed this before, is that I watch a lot of goals and when I'm watching goals being scored, I always count how many bodies are in the 18-yard box.

9:24And it doesn't matter who it is, it just how many. Although it's interesting who it is a lot of the time. Exactly, exactly. Well, PSG, Kimi could be in there, Mendes, Udall. So I always felt, well, that's a really hard choice for a defender because they don't know how many are coming in and who to pick up and what type of run they're making. And so it's really, well, for me, look, the game at 3-2, I'm thinking everybody normally, every coach in the world would be going, like Chelsea when they were 3-2 down in Paris. I remember saying to my pal, I'm watching it, I'm going, get out 3-2, take the 3-2 loss.

10:01Don't try and go after them. And Bayern Munich have just done the exact opposite. They've just literally gone after them. And I kept thinking, Vincent Kompany as a manager has chose to take the risk of going 5-2 down or maybe 6-2. And that is incredibly brave to do that in Paris. Just that first point that Tony made I think is really interesting, especially when you compare matches because if you take the Arsenal match, especially when Saka came on, he was doubled up on a lot. And so if you just look at that fact, you go, well, why was he doubled up on a lot? And Kovaric, Scalia, or at least say not.

10:38Well, the key thing with both teams is that they put so many players in the box that you can't double up on them. So that means those guys are one-on-one all the time. Yeah, so because whereas most teams just think about, okay, we'll build, well, most top teams will go, okay we'll build with a three two five we'll have two wingers on either side they'll maybe they'll get an overlapping run they'll be a bit supported and then there's two attacking midfielders that might one might crash into the box and you've got your striker that's your your main sort of reference point uh and those five guys are going to pin back the defensive four if you push put more players in that completely changes that dynamic and then suddenly you don't have that thing where the opposition team can put two on your winger yeah they have to put those guys in the box and that means you've got Kovar Eskelia or Elise or Diaz going at their fullback every time and what are you going to do?

11:28You obviously, people say, oh well, why don't you just put two guys there and defend a bit better? Then you lose the guy in the box. Then you're getting killed. Yeah, then he changes it all completely. You were a fullback, okay? What would you have been like facing wingers, all four of them, not one of them, all four of them, knowing how to defend against in trouble do you know what I mean but that sort of mindset of like no no Hamza also to kind of speak to Hamza's point there a big part of my role when I played was about getting help around me and these guys don't have it if they do it's kind of it's rare and it's minimal because everyone else as Hamza said but all four of these wingers backtrack as well we're not just talking offensively all of them will get back and help their wing back out or their full back it was interesting wasn't it it was a good interview with I think Dembele after the game, I forget which network, but he was talking about, you know, asked, you know, what about the kind of running and there's so much fitness and he's like, well, if you don't run, Enrique won't play you.

12:26Like that's as simple as that. If you don't run, you don't track. That kind of video of Luis Enrique with Mbappe in the analysis suite. This is what you need to do. This is what you have to do. And he kind of didn't look that happy with what he was hearing. I'll tell you another point that's really interesting from this game. Luis Enrique's Spain in Qatar, the World Cup, were the most ball-possession-based team I've ever seen. Offered nothing going forward. Whatever happened to his life when the penny dropped, because his football, if you watch Spain at that time, they were awful in the World Cup in Qatar.

13:01And I remember commentating when Morocco beat them and thinking, this Spanish team, just keep the ball. They said this team, possession wins them a game and that's it. They never look dangerous. and then suddenly he's got this team now that he must have along the way gone I'm never doing that again with a football team because now it's just relentless yeah Grain's just quickly on the defending Gregor I mean you obviously loved it you loved the spectacle Hamza's outlined why it's so great the two teams going at it and people aren't doubling up and stuff was there anything that you were like come on lads you could have you know was there nothing that can stop players when they're this no to be honest I've been a bit bewildered by some of the kind of conversation in the aftermath of this game and particularly when I was watching the footage you had Karin Seydorf, Wayne Rooney and Daniel Sturridge the three strikers saying how bad is defending and he kept coming back to it and I was like guys what are you talking about?

13:51I think you can make a case for every single goal for the attack as opposed to to criticise a defence I think Michael Alises was on the borderline because he picked up the ball in the pocket space on the edge of the box and there were four or five PSG players in the vicinity and none of them really got close enough to try and block a shot, which when he was actually in the box by the time he took the shot, I will say to that, you're playing against Michael Alisi, he can make a fool of you and he can dance in between you. I'm not saying it was easy, but that's the one. The others, every single goal.

14:24Diaz's goal, Gregor? No, Diaz's goal was a brilliant run. Yeah, amazing pass. Absolutely exquisite pass and his first touch was out of this world. And then he dummied him again. Like, no way. That's Diaz. That's brilliant. I don't know if Marquinhos would have got there a yard quicker a few years back. Maybe, maybe. I'm not being ultra… And I'd say, again, Stanisic for Kvaric-Skelia's first goal. First of all, he was done in behind and then he retreated and then he stood him up. He cut inside but again, this is Kvaric-Skelia and it was so clinical and ruthless. That's another one. Then we're collapsing.

15:02Even the set pieces, there were brilliant deliveries. that near post run by Jaunevis is so hard to defend even if he is like 5 foot 4 or whatever and then the Upamecanoes one again it's in that the keeper can't come for it he's a towering defender none of it it was just brilliant brilliant attack and play and I find it strange that people were so keen to focus on and also talking about as if it was some sort of philosophical like I don't know choice aberration because you can't Kompany was brilliant afterwards in the aftermath of this game too, in his interviews. He was asked this question and he said, basically, there's no halfway house.

15:42When you're playing against players of PSG's level or our level, you can't go half, there's no half measures in the way we play. And the only alternative is to completely defend. You can't do in between. And he's right. Because if you don't commit totally to the attack we're seeing, you don't see the game we see. I have the statistics back up Gregor as well. because if it was a really bad match, you'd have like super high XG, for example, right? Now you had two penalties, which inflate those totals a bit. But as in, if you strip out the penalties in open play specifically, it was just 1.05 for PSG, 1.55 for Bayern.

16:19That's pretty attacking, but pretty normal, right? And the key thing in this match was that the finishes were unbelievable. Was it nine of the first 10 shots on target were all goals? And if you think through the match as well, I reckon there's only two massive chances. Ousmane Dembele in the first half and Michael Alisa in the first half. The rest are chances, but not big ones. And what you actually see as well is the managers largely sort of understanding what their players' defensive strengths are. They go, okay, well, if you try to ask Ousmane Dembele or Kovicic-Varac Scalier to defend in the box, in their own box, they're not good at that, right?

16:58But they're amazing at pressing. So you defend from the front. and while Tate Patro is not the best defender in tight spaces in big spaces he's amazing so why would you say sit back in a low block when that doesn't play to any of their strengths in fact he's played to your strengths and be attacking and yeah I think both teams actually defended quite well and it feels kind of intuitive and Kane and Kampary both kind of the retort was I saw a lot of great defenders today and you know Wayne Ruddy going I think he's like you know I love how he came but I think he's mistaken it no what Kane recognised was when he dropped off as Hansa talked about almost to the edge of his own box often a centre half followed him all the way that's brave yeah amazing and like to also balance off to cover that is no mean feat so there was a lot of great defenders a lot of 1v1 1 defender and a lot of times the attackers came out on top but that's because they're so good I got one for Bill Edger here I don't know if this has been mentioned Bayern Munich have scored in every game this season cup and league really every game they've scored a game they haven't had one game they haven't scored yeah that is in itself that their style is beyond bonkers at times and it's effective as Amza and Gregor have said in the league match this weekend they were 3-0 down and then they brought on Kane and Alisse and they won 4-3 Alisse Alisse I was going to say my god is he the most brilliant player you've ever seen Michael Alisse and we were just talking about the most amazing game have I gone over the top and done the Michael Aliso 47 games this season 20 goals 25 assists he's the only player in Europe's top 5 leagues with 20 and 20 for both categories Gregor I think you undersold him a couple of weeks ago I talked about how impressed I was that 10 years ago you said this guy is the real deal I don't think you went far enough no no miles off you didn't see this so when did you first see him Gregor at Reading I think he was 18 or 19 and like you knew he was special but and I did say that it was like you know he could be Champions League level special but I didn't think he would be the best player in the Champions League and like Ballon d 'Or winning you know special but he is that now and you see the way he's just imagine playing against Michael Alissi I mean I've never seen Mendes if he gets past you on the inside it's like there's about a 90 % chance it's a goal or like a pass for someone to score and if he goes down the outside he has that weight of running along the one when he ran along the byline and flicked it and hit a defender and hit the post he's like imagine defending that Remember when Inter Milan played Spurs and Gareth Bale ruined Maicon?

19:33Maicon at the time was the best right back in the world. Mendes is a left back, but he's one of the best. A great player. And yet, I must say, embarrassed him like Bale did to Maicon. It was that type of performance. Another great stat that I loved that maybe comes back to, Hamza, your point about XG and things. Manuel Neuer didn't save a single shot in the whole game. He's the first goalkeeper in a last 16 Champions League to concede five goals without saving a single shot, which again speaks to your point, Hamza, and yours, Gregor, that actually this is about the attackers and the goals. Just quickly on Harry Kane, Hamza, a player that you've written excellently on this season.

20:07It kind of made me quite proud of Harry Kane watching this game just because of how brilliantly technical it was and how he kept dropping deep. And you'd see him drop deep with the press coming behind him and then look at his defensive options and be like, if you get pinched here, Harry, you could be in big trouble. but he was so brilliant. There was a couple of times where he thought, oh, he's lost it. Just wiggle his way out of it. I mean, I keep saying it this season but this guy is almost still underrated. I keep banging on about it. Hamza, are we now seeing him get even better? Is he one of these players that we see him when he gets around players of a really elite level and this is not a dig on Tottenham that you're like, wow, he's getting even better.

20:49Yeah, I mean, the evolution that he's had is remarkable. especially in that creative to that creative part of his game because when he first started doing that after his ankle injury he would drop into midfield for Spurs and he would try it and it wouldn't quite come off he'd think dude just get in the box and then it clicked and as soon as that happened the relationship with Son in particular was unreal it was just a cheat code the ball comes in he drops Son goes from Kanjicak goal and he's refined that and you see so many moments of genius in so many ordinary parts of play. There's one moment where he received the ball back towards goal by the touchline.

21:35I think he had pressure on his back and he fell over and he then defended the ball while he was on the floor, got up and then flicked it between both feet just as both PSG defenders were trying to press him and then just played out. It was super cool and Tony will know this because, well, both of you will know this, as in when you're a player, you start off and as a young player, you're athletic. So you're at your athletic prime. And then as you get older, you get a bit more experience, a bit smarter. And you have that sort of golden period where you are both smart and at the top of your mental game and also still at the top of your physical game.

22:12And as you get a bit older, you become smarter, but you don't quite have, your body can't quite do what it could. and he's in that golden zone now where you are super smart. You're thinking ahead of everyone else. You're using all your experience and your body can still match what you want it to do. Did you guys... Well, no, I was going to read to that Amzou on... Look, he's got two perfect people alongside him because Alisson has one touchline and he's going to go into space behind and Diaz is relentless. I mean, I said to him at the time, I'm gutted when he left Liverpool. He's like, he will always run and run and run and chase and then he has Musiala, as you touched on earlier, who will drop into a space.

22:50And Kane's such a... He's very like sharing them. Teddy used to do that all the time with Spurs, drop into spaces with Anderton and he'd had runners behind. He'd done that brilliantly well and had a great career. We ended up winning a lot, as we know. But having the perfect foil for you as a player as well. I had two wingers at Nancy and I played probably as well as I'd ever played. I played actually better than I did for Marseille. A lot of people, you know, I've really played my best football. I had two lightning wingers. Both of them were like, they obviously weren't to the level of Alissa and Kavriske, all these times.

23:25They weren't that level. Both were less normally quick. And I would just literally drop and they would go behind me. So if I'd flick it on or I held it and then someone would spin, we had a Moroccan number 10 who was really gifted on the ball. And I just loved it. Perfect blend. And I didn't have to run in the channels and didn't have to get to places. and Harry's got that beautiful luxury of having so many good players rounding. It's like all three parts. So like when you build an attack, you want like a dribbler, a creative player and a shot getter. And what they actually have is Kane, who's both a creator and a shot getter, Diaz, who's a dribbler and Elise, who's now all three, the triple threat.

24:05And it's interesting as well because wingers that like can get shots off and dribble and can create off and aren't involved that much. And he's also involved a lot. So you've got the triple threat, the double threat, and then just the pure dribbler. It's a wonderful balance. And when you think about building attacks, those are all the three elements that you want. And then in midfield as well, I can't remember who came up with the phrase, but as in the idea is the old Liverpool teams, they talk about this, you'd have a buzzer, a cruncher, and a spreader. Buzzer is a runner, cruncher is a tackler, spreader as a passer, right?

24:41And it's those three profiles that create a very balanced midfield. And if you can get players that do each one or if you can have players that do all of them, then you've got, and you look at both teams and maybe buying a mission a bit of a tackler. I mean, almost everyone on the bench could also be awesome. I was going to say, I was going to say, we're very, very dangerous and close to doing an entire show about one game. That's proving the point that it made you watch the best game. We should mention Arsenal, but Gregor, go on, what were you going to say on the back of Harry Kane? Almost everyone on the pitch kind of has all those traits.

25:16That's the thing that struck me watching this game. I don't want to be cruel but I'd say Stanisic was the only player that was slightly a level below and he did have a difficult time against Kvariskely. Everyone else, they can dribble. They are like little Duracell bunnies running around with a ridiculous engine and they're all technically gifted and it doesn't matter what part of the pitch you're playing on because you all have to play a role in the system and it was just a joy to watch. Yeah. And just very quickly, I would say if PSG did make an error, it was in the first 60 minutes, I thought it was fabulous.

25:53Both teams attacked. And when they went 5-2 up, they tried to just be a bit more conservative with the ball. You actually saw them consolidate possession. So they actually let Bayern come. They just tried to slow the game down. Well, he made changes as well, didn't he? got Hernandez on and just started to... And at that point, Bayern just went, we can sense what you're trying to do here and we aren't going to leave with a three-goal deficit. And they went for him. And we're delighted that they did because it makes the second leg all the way more exciting. We might as well, to be honest. Honestly, Arsenal fans, I'm trying really, really hard.

26:25I've been looking at them all going, shut up, we need to talk about Arsenal. So let's do just that. Very quick question to set us off. Arsenal unlucky in this game not to come away with a win. We're obviously going to talk about all the decisions, but I thought not a bad performance from Arsenal in a game and in a stadium where it's always very difficult to play. I felt they were a bit unlucky not to come away with the victory, not just because of the decisions that I think slightly went against them, but also because they were the better team. Yeah, I'd say a little bit. After the first half, where Arsenal, I felt, were in way more control, I think they were a little bit taken back by Atletico and the changes they made.

27:00And to be fair, Rhea pulled off two or three fantastic signs. Yeah, look, look, Wink would have had a hat-trick. I don't think they deserve to win the game, no. Do you think a draw is a good... I think it's a good result. Yeah, it's a good result. A draw is a good result, but even then with the decisions, because this is, you know, handball laws and interpretations, one of your favourite topics. I know you've enjoyed yourself talking about PSG buying, but I'm going to have to upset you. Any of those penalties? Those handballs? I mean, the Benoit one is an absolute stinker, isn't it? How on earth is that handball?

27:27So was the Davies one the night before. Yeah. It's just, yeah, I mean, as people have said, Imagine the finals decided by something like that. I cannot fathom how BGML or the game thinks that that is a fair interpretation. Well, that's the only thing is you come away from this going that UEFA actually have a stricter interpretation. UEFA, sorry, yes, of course. Actually have a stricter interpretation than we do in the Premier League. That's the only thing. I suppose that's clear. Arteta said it afterwards. I have nothing to say about that because while he was masking the fact that he thinks it's ridiculous he knew that before he went into the game his problem was obviously with the way the Eze decision was arrived at and I think actually it sums up the absurdity of VAR that I think all of us around this table would probably agree it wasn't a penalty but we also agree that Mikkel Arteta is right to feel wronged because it wasn't a clear and obvious error it wasn't like a howler and referees just forget that now They forget when they're sent to the monitor, they're not looking for, you know, were they fractionally right or wrong?

28:35Well, they're not supposed to be, but they are. That's the thing, isn't it? And that whole idea is nonsense. Everyone's WhatsApp chat, every social media was like, oh, that's soft, but they won't overturn it. And then they overturned it. Tom, there's a bigger problem, right? The night before you've had two penalties, okay? Last night you've had two penalties and a penalty that was given and then denied. And you also had on Tuesday night, You had three times the referee's gone to his earpiece and he's listening, he's saying to the players, on a penalty check. So we've had eight decisions on penalties in two games.

29:07Okay, four of them become penalties. But that has to be wrong. If you're giving a shot from 12 yards on a one-on-one, it's got to be a nailed on for me. You know my frustration for penalties. But we've had eight penalty incidents with a referee listening, then going to VAR and changing his mind and also four penalties being given. Yes. In terms of, obviously, VAR and the penalties dominating, but then the game itself, Greg, you touched on Luckman's chances and things. Arsenal, you think, happy to come away from this with a draw. Once you take the penalties out of it, you think Atletico are the better team.

29:41I think they were in the second half. Yeah. And I think they really turned up a notch and the stadium came into, the power of it came into play. Right. And they were really, you know, they were pressing Arsenal high. they were making it they were suffocating them really I thought for large spells in the second half and yeah I thought I thought Atletico looked quite good the Atletico have several faces now you know still everyone talking about how kind of the master of the dark arts and Simeone in particular and they're solid they're not solid defensively anymore and actually they're quite a potent attack and force when they want to be it's just that I think he's trying to he's trying to manage the tie I think the first half it wasn't like a mistake it was like let's let's Arsenal out let's see what they've got and in a second half they turned up so understandably coming to this one after what the magic of the night before are you watching this going neither of these are stopping PSG or Bayern or are you actually looking at it and thinking I don't know Arsenal are pretty good defensively could have as good a go as anyone at stopping either of these teams if they face them in the final Hamza their strengths are are very different to PSG and Bayern's strengths and I think that would mean that rather so both teams well Arsenal in particular really good at doing a mid block as Kompany said last night as in that's not something that his buying can do or really want to do in that sort of match and I think that would pose a very different question and Arsenal already played by in the season a very different context and whatever and Arsenal ran PSG quite close last season so yeah as in I think both teams could pose a good challenge but we thought that also last year as well in the final right we went I'll go back to my net point then they got ran over this yeah the Lutwin chances were quite good and I think the overall performance was good for Arsenal though I think they can be pleased with that and the result is fine anything up to a one goal defeat it was fine actually to return to the home leg level pegging is good just to finish then on these two semi-finals and this idea that everyone's talking about PSG Bayern and it should have been the final and things like that.

31:53But as Hamza's just outlined there, there's, you know, Atletico and Arsenal, two very good teams. I thought it'd be a bit fun to kind of try and concoct a combined 11 of all four teams because I was just thinking last night, how many, if any, Arsenal players or Atletico players get into a combined 11? So, I mean, I've got Oblak down as the keeper, so we're off and running. Anyone disagree? Raya. Raya? Raya. Yeah, so we'd all have, so we're not even, great, we're off and running. That's one already in there. Defence, I've got Hakimi and Mendes as the full backs? Absolutely. Anyone disagree? No.

32:25Yeah. And then centre backs, I think you get Gabriel in there, don't you? At least. I put Saliba over Gabriel. I thought there were moments yesterday where Gabriel looked a bit sketchy, but Saliba was supreme. There's one transition in particular where on the right side, Arsenal panicking and the ball gets clipped into the box and the one guy who's calm is Saliba and he makes the clearing heads. Can you make a case for both of them? You can. You could do, yeah. And Upamecano. Yeah. I like Upamecano. He's a great athlete and he's the same sort of profile of player who's able to defend that big open space that Hamza was talking about and he does it really well so I would say I would put Meccano in one of Arsenal's back football Great so we've got Raya and an Arsenal defender in there already so we're off and running and Rice midfield Rice definitely gets into a midfield Yeah I've got to get him in there This is when it gets very hard though doesn't it because surely Vettinia and Neves have got to be in there Yep for me Kimmich is pushing them close Kimmich is the best pass run Kimmich is in mine I would have won four teams, I think.

33:21Ahead of Rice, just. No, I would have Rice ahead of Kimmich. Okay, and then the impossible. Who's your front three or four? I don't think any of the others. Whoa! I don't think it's one player out of Atletico. You mean Giocarez isn't getting in your confinement? No, I think you could play Alvarez as a 10. And me and Gregor have had this conversation that you could play Alvarez as a 10 because obviously with Kane and then whoever you want, Alizé or Kaveskiela on the other side. Don't say whoever you want. you've got to pick well Alici, Kane and Kvaretské with Alvarez as a 10 either Alvarez as a 10 or Ousmane no no no no or a third see we've been a bit unfair Luis Diaz has been unbelievable as well for Bayern and Kvaretské I mean look that's the tightest call all the players if you're making a composite out of a team that's the tightest call for me the left hand side so we've got three Arsenal and a case for Julian Alvarez I think that's pretty good yeah in a composite team Hamza do you want to run us through yours if you've got one no I don't if I was to pick two 11s it would be PSG and Bayern and we'd watch them play again very good there's loads of work still to come on the show just before we take a break it's worth mentioning that Hamza wasn't the only winner at the Sports Journalism Awards this week Johnny Northcroft our wonderful colleague of course was named Football Journalist of the Year for the second year in a row completing the double just like Hamza.

34:49Martin Ziegler was named Jews Reporter of the Year with Matt Lawton highly commended in that category. There were lots of other awards for our colleagues covering other sports and the Sunday Times and the Times were named the best two newspapers in this country which means quite simply that you are listening to the very best. Gregor, do you win any awards? Thanks, Tom. No, not yet. Me and Gregor next time. Me and Gregor next time. 26 years. No, 1-1. How many of you entered? I didn't know I had to enter. after you went to for me you went to for me that's your first mistake zone there we go now after all that self-congratulation we need a little bit of a lie down but first a question from Bill Edgar's quiz which Manchester City defender has not committed a foul in his past 25 appearances for the club in all competitions find out after the break We have launched Operation Epic Fury.

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37:02Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clarke and I've got Hamza Kaliklunat, Tony Cascarino and Gregor Robertson with me. Gregor, as ever, might not have won any awards, but he's the only one who takes the quiz seriously. Got the answer, which was? What was the answer again? John Stones. John Stones. John Stones. Tony, you're a bit upset at that idea that John Stones hasn't committed a foul in his past 25 appearances for Manchester City. Well, I think most defenders have got one ear. I wouldn't be proud of having never committed a foul. He barely got booked.

37:32behave yourself he was one of them unless he was very good at doing a sneaky foul let's move on to talk about some of the content excellent content that is on the award winning Times and Sunday Times website now and one of them comes from Gregor Robertson himself with a comment piece which is headlined which FIFA clown thought up the ridiculous under 21 idea how do you not get an award for that you know what I mean it would open a can of worms Gregor you are of course talking about a proposal to have one homegrown under 21 player on the pitch at all times you say would undermine the integrity of first team selection and hurt professional pride?

38:06Well, yeah, that's the first thing to say. I mean, the idea that football for all its else is like one of the world's great meritocracies. On the, you know, for footballers trying to make it as a footballer, clearly there's a lot around the surrounding the game that you can describe as that. But, you know, no matter where you come from in the world, your background, anything, if you're good enough, you can make it. And although this would sound like a fairly marginal change to this, any rule that predetermines the criteria by which you can select the starting 11 undermines that system. And even if you think it's noble and you're trying to give young players a chance, it still undermines the integrity of that system.

38:55So that's the first thing you've got to say about it. and the second is it's just like I don't know how genuinely the headline sums up the piece because who comes up with this stuff I know it's a FIFA council and like it's now just going out for a proposal and like it will surely be chucked in the waste bin but how how are these like it just smacks of silvering you know men in a room trying to justify their existence a lot of FIFA is like that these days and it's because there's been so little thought about it. What happens if your one homegrown under-21 player on the pitch is injured or is sent off or has to be taken off because they're having a shocker?

39:40And as I pointed out, you know, you'd be quite fortunate to have two homegrown under-21 players who play in the same position. They were good enough. And who are good enough. So if they need to come off, what, do you need to make two subs? One, you know, one to comply with the quota elsewhere in the pitch and the one to replace them in that position. What would it do to the transfer market? What would it do to, you know, the way clubs would have to reorganise their squads to deal with this. Players before adulthood are already commodified to an extraordinary extent. We know what the spending rules have done to, you know, profit and sustainability rules have done to the value of young players because often, well, in accountancy terms, they're pure profit.

40:29We see what Chelsea have done, selling half their academy because it makes financial sense. This would just turbocharge that even more. And then it would create a cliff edge at 21 where your value would plummet. So it's absolutely nonsensical. And as I said, I'll come back to it, I don't know how whoever came up with that idea is being indulged. Yeah, well, fingers crossed, as you say, it's just a proposal. So fingers crossed the powers that be have read your very, very passionate comment piece on the Times website and they leave it there. There is, of course, a welfare consideration as well because lots of players play too much when they're young and then you can see that they burn out.

41:05I mean, the obvious examples is like Wayne Rooney or Michael Owen's actually probably the best example. But let's imagine, let's say you're Arsenal, right? So you have to choose under 21 players. So you're, okay, who's the best player that we can choose? 16-year-old Max Dowman, the guy who's doing his GCSEs. so then you think okay we've got to play him as much as possible um uh we have to play him every match and we have to have someone else that can sub on for him i mean that's a lot of workload for a young player as you're 16 who physically needs to develop uh and prepare themselves playing 3 000 or so minutes in the league that's one way to guarantee that your best young players burn out or get injuries or aren't given the appropriate sort of development time that they need to play a good team.

41:53I'll just add one little thing on that as well. Say if you've got nobody that's come through that's good enough. Right? So you're going to have to play someone but they're not actually good enough to be in the first team. Is that a fair point? Yeah. I mean, you could be at a club where, I mean, we all speak to people at football clubs and some say, who have you got coming through and they'll go, no one. No one at the minute. No one at the minute. Sometimes they have a batch, three or four of them and they go, oh, we've got three or four, really good ones we think will be involved in the next year or two I said in the piece we're all for you know players having the best chance to develop and having a genuine like pathway without too many hurdles towards the first team but you can't manufacture it either and I also made the point that I think for the players themselves you don't want to be in there to fill a quota you want to be in there on merit because you deserve it no matter how old you are so it's a ludicrous ludicrous idea yeah well you can go and read Gregor's very impassioned comment piece on the Times website.

42:50Now loads more on there as well, including Matt Lawton and Peter Rutzler reporting on Mikhailo Mudrik's four-year doping ban. I wanted to mention another comment piece on the Times website from our colleague Martin Samuel, who's on his way travelling back from Madrid after reporting on the big game. His column earlier this week was headlined, Give Carrick the Manchester United job or ditch logic and start again, again. We're obviously talking about the kind of decision that Manchester United are heading towards as a club now this summer. It's a big one. The savings are stacked at Mattress Warehouse.

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43:55They tune in every week. They trust the host. And that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is you just haven't been introduced yet. We're A-Cast, where that introduction happens. As the world's largest podcast marketplace, We let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise. United getting the win against Brentford on Monday night all but secures basically Champions League football for them next season, which is a huge thing for the club in terms of stature and financially as well.

44:42I'm going to talk about some of the maybe playing changes in a minute, but where are we all at with Carrick? Because we've been here before, haven't we, with Solskjaer. It's a similar type appointment. He's done very well. Lots of people, I'm sure, would say, hang on, you've only had one game a week. I think he would probably admit that as well. Where are we at with Michael Carrick in the Manchester United Jets? I think this is a very valid point at this time, is that Carrick, under normal circumstances, would have been given it, I think, earlier. Right. Because there's such an opportunity with managers leaving clubs, they also think, cool, we could miss a golden opportunity of getting a manager that's already proven in the Premier League.

45:20So they've got that conundrum to face. But I do think it's worth taking care of it because I think the job he's done, he's steadied everything and he seems to have done it with a lot of calmness and the team has improved dramatically since he's been at the helm. And also he'll be a manager. I think United wouldn't have to throw a four or five-year deal at him. They could easily go two years. The one problem that they've obviously come at has been there's so many good managers available. There's a really merry-go-round within management. Who are those managers that we've talked about so often? Obviously, we know Oliver Blasner's leaving.

45:56Arreola is a massive one. I said to you the other week, I'd make the connection with Richard Hughes, who got him into Bournemouth and would know the agent and done the deal. that, you know, Liverpool could be looking. But there's, you know, obviously Glasner has had a really great time. Marco Silva, okay, probably not to that level. But even just generally, there's managers. Look, Deserby got the job. He was out of work and Tottenham saw an opportunity to get Deserby. Yeah. So, you know, there's been a real merry-go-round. What do we think, Hamza, Gregor? I would... Xavi Alonso is the number one.

46:28Xavi Alonso, potentially Julian Nagelsmann, potentially even like Ancelotti, because they're managing in international teams. I would take my time with this decision. What he has brought to Manchester United, undoubtedly, has been a massive mood change and a massive improvement. In the underlying figures, you can actually see improvement under Amarim. And like I said, the mood is vastly different, but you could see the defence was getting better. The attack was actually all right. We mentioned when Amarim was Shaq, they're like, oh yeah, they had second most goals or third most goals in the league, most shots, second most XG.

47:02So the attack has improved. The key thing for United though is to get the recruitment of the players right, to give whoever the manager is the opportunity to challenge for the league. So they need a new... Do they not need to get the manager first though? Do they not need to get a manager in order to work? Do they not need to make this decision before the end of the season? I think the manager can be a key component of that discussion. But because of the opportunity in the market with managers, you've just got to make a call. and I would err towards going, okay, we're going to try and get our Ducks and Rory in terms of transfers and get our squad into a position where it can compete.

47:38And it's going to be flexible and we'll have an idea of which managers we want because we've sounded them out and we'll know that, for example, we're not building towards a back three squad or we're not going to be a low block team. We're going to have a few principals and our managers that are on our shortlist are going to match that. And because of that, we can then choose which players we want to match that. Yeah, I would just keep options open. But yeah, I think we need a couple of infielders still a bit of defensive reinforcement and they're in a good position. I'll come on to the players that you think they should sign in the summer in a minute but Gregor just your thoughts on Michael Carrick obviously Martin Samuel saying on the Times website he should get the job a lot of people think he deserves the job.

48:16Yeah I think Martin makes a pretty compelling case because he's kind of saying you'd be starting all over again again. I think that was his final sentence and it's true. I also think that the kind of depths that Manchester United plumbed it's okay for them now just to be for the next couple of years even just to be pretty safe and competing for the Champions League this idea they always have to be getting the best in class they always have to be I'm not sure that's true at the moment I think United have fallen so far that they just need to be really competent again and they need to be content and actually Old Trafford needs to be a bit of a happier environment because it's been the opposite of that for so long and I think Carrick looks like he can tick a lot of those boxes there's a question obviously as Martin pointed out there's the spectre of the Solskjaer sort of appointment and you know everyone was saying yeah give him the job and then how that ended but you know as Martin said like considering what followed Solskjaer did an okay job when you look back on it and he was also up against peak Jurgen Klopp and Pep Guardiola era Liverpool and City teams the Premier League is not like that at the moment I don't think you have to have the best manager on the planet to compete for the title I don't think that's true but actually it's right having a really good manager and that's you don't think that because the guys make a good point that there's that enticing prospect of all these different names that are going to be out there and that they could that's the thing isn't it I'm not sure I actually disagree with that who is like so compelling that you would say we'll wait for him well no okay Greg do you not No, who?

50:00I must go. No, but before I say... Nagelsmann, any of the internationals, Hamza was saying Ancelotti. It doesn't go well with Brazil. I would not give it to Ancelotti. Nagelsmann. Okay, so if United, when they sat hammering, they might have had a manager already and already been in talks via... Because this happens in the game. It happens with players. It happens with managers. They would have approached somebody to see if they were interested in the job when they gave character. So they might have already given a guarantee to a manager. Because there's a lot of managers who are very silent. Don't tell me that Marco Silva, Glasner or Andoli Areola have not had people talking to them.

50:36They're all leaving their jobs and no one knows where they're going. Yeah, with the situation... It sounded out, but of those three, I wouldn't... If I was in charge, I wouldn't have given any of them the job. But you wouldn't have given Fergie the job when he got the job, years gone by. Would you have given Fergie the job? I don't know. I mean, he just won a European trophy with Aberdeen. I'm not saying he didn't do really well with Aberdeen, but would he have been the Manchester United going from Aberdeen? That was a different year. I know it is. Just being Real Madrid. Anyone think Eddie Howe?

51:05If Newcastle decides Eddie Howe at Manchester United, consisting Champions League football, give him a better squad than he had at Newcastle. The squad is a key point there because Eddie works his players quite hard. So if you're in multiple competitions, you're going to have a lot of injuries. But if you can give him a decked out squad like Mikel Arteta has had, I think then you get to see full force Eddie Howe football. and I think that should be quite exciting however you've got Champions League winners you know we've just you've just said there Hamza and this is not having a pop-up for that is that when you say Eddie Howell works his players really hard and you've got Dembele who says well if you don't run in my team because our manager demands it what I mean is they get injured they work really hard well but also this is where the league point comes in that we didn't mention in the first half of the show isn't it that's another thing we should say with PSG and Bayern is that the leagues that they're playing in allows them to gear towards these matches.

52:02So in a Premier League, Hamza's talking about that's one of the reasons Newcastle have struggled. They get into the Champions League and have a great old time and reach the top. But then they go to 14th, don't they? So, I mean, let's bring it back to Manchester United and the squads because Hamza's touched on it a couple of times. You know, they've got Casemiro, who might be ending the season as their second best player behind Bruno Fernandes, leaving. Kobi Mainu, we believe, is going to sign a new contract as well. But who would you be signing? I was talking particularly about midfielders. they've been linked with so many Chiuameni Anderson Tonali Wharton any others I've said which managers would you go for which player would you go for those are all good yeah perfect that's the short list any of them I'd add one more in there Archie Gray really too young surely you mean too young look but Man United need a they need an under 21 player don't they no the rule's not been enforced yet Tony look no I'm joking aside Archie Gray if you watch him is he ready for to be absolutely in the team at the moment if they go down he would be one I'd take I'd go after but wouldn't you also need the point is that they're losing Casemiro yeah the point is well it Anderson's terrific the success they've had this season was about has been about essentially buying Cunha and Bumo who were like ready made drop them in the team I'd be interested on Gredor and Elliot Anderson the one I would definitely look who would you Hamza's agreed with my shortlist there if you were picking they were all good Jack Hinslewood as well both of those Alex Scott and Jack Hinslewood do you think you think they need two midfielders though Hamza Definitely, yeah.

53:28Just to give a bit of depth to the squad. Your shortlist, all of those players would be an upgrade. They're all players who you could see in a Man United show. He's actually playing really well, Casimir. Yeah, he's playing brilliantly, isn't he? He's playing one game a week, which I think helps quite a lot, right? I love Elliot Anderson. I think he offers so much in many different respects. You wonder whether Manchester United don't want to be dragged into an Elliot Anderson tussle with Manchester City if Bernardo Silva's leaving and Rodri's on the decline. Elliot Anderson's going somewhere. That always happens though, Tom, doesn't it?

54:02He's going somewhere. Maybe he'd be going City over United, wouldn't he, you'd have thought. Don't know. Who knows? I mean, look, I think he'll be in demand in the summer. But I also think that Newcastle, after everything that's gone on in the last couple of months there, will be braced for some offers for their best players and that might include Tenale and Bruno. So, yeah. And I think Manchester United would be interested in both of those players. I think as well, it's worth actually casting our minds back to the summer because United got criticised quite a bit. But I think only with time it became a bit more clear what their plan was.

54:35And I think they entertained offers for Bruno Fernandes with the idea that they could sell him and then completely rebuild the midfield. And when that sale didn't happen because Bruno didn't want to go, they just went, okay, we're going to have to choose what we buy now. And they went, okay, we'll just get forwards. So they sort of set back a few months in their planning but I think with the new guys that they have in their team, specifically the new data department, they're actually in a much better shape now. I think they're integrated within Manchester United's ecosystem is an awful word, isn't it?

55:11But within their system, a lot better. And I think their insights are being fed in and listened to a bit more. And that's helping that side of United, which has been behind the curve for a long, long time. catch up and I think there might be because of that there might be some surprise names on the shortlist that are outside of England Big couple of months for Manchester United United fans get in touch with me with your views tom.clark at the time.co.uk Chaps wanted to finish by looking at the weekend's matches in the Premier League but first a little bit of breaking news that's on the Times website whilst we've been recording Scott Parker leaving Burnley after relegation from the Premier League 45 year old manager said it's time to move in a different direction his assistant Mike Jackson will take over the final four games of the season.

55:57Bit of a strange one, this to me, Gregor, leaving at this stage in the season, but maybe we talk so much about planning, vibes, mood, maybe it's just a case of stepping away now rather than in the summer and the club can start planning for life in the Championship again. But I mean, Scott Parker's got an amazing record in the Championship of getting teams promoted. That seems to be what he's making his niche. So it seems a strange one to me that you wouldn't have gone down, because I mean, everyone thinks they've done quite well this season, but were always one of the favourites to go down yeah I mean Scott Parker seems doomed to be stuck in this sort of cycle of managing teams who expect to be promoted and not achieving that and that's no mean feat I think people often underplay that achievement and I think it is an achievement because often there's huge turmoil in the summer after relegation and big squad churn and you've got to create a good atmosphere and he's done that at three clubs but when he get to the Premier League it's not just what Scott Parker does it's what's around him and for one reason or another he's never been able to keep a team in the Premier League and I think Burnley were competitive for the first half of the season really they had a couple of tight games didn't they they had a couple of matches where they ended up drawing and they could have pinched pictures well you remember after maybe 10 games or something we were having this conversation all the teams were out of the bottom three were thinking this is this is a you know after what came before everyone you know all three teams been relegated in two successive seasons all three promoted teams that is we thought this is a great change this is great for the league and then gravity sort of pulled them back in and I just don't think they I don't think like when you look at the way Sunderland and Leeds sort of recruited such specific sort of blueprint I don't think Burnley really had that and on two occasions now Vincent Kompany who we know who's doing really well now had the same issue they came up and played in a different way he was totally committed still to playing the kind of attacking football that we were just lauded but doing that with the score he had at his disposal at Burnley was not possible and some would say it was foolhardy Scott Parker didn't try and do that he made them dogged and tried to make them hard to beat but ultimately they weren't good enough it's an impossible job isn't it it's the club that go up and they're always going to be favourites to go back down like Greg has said you can play different types you can never really get enough quality at the club and I expected them to go down.

58:28I thought they made a bit of a fist of it and Scott will have to try and find another job. It's a really hard one because I feel for managers when they have jobs that they can do really well in the Championship with, with the funds they can pay or the finances, but once they get to the Premier League they're completely against it. Weren't quite as backed as well as Leeds and Sunderland. Leeds play Burnley on Friday night. Chaps wanted to talk about relegation, Tony and Hamza. We've talked about it so much on the show in the last couple of weeks. And on Monday, I asked the question to Tom Olney on Alison and Gregor whether we'd still see it as just a straight shootout between Tottenham and West Ham or whether we start to look at the teams above them, Leeds, Forest.

59:08I even mentioned Newcastle because of the terrible run they've been on. How are we seeing it at the moment, Tony? Still a straight fight between those two? Or do you think some of the teams above them could get dragged back in? Well, there's still a number of points to be gained. There's still 12 points left. There's 12 points for there. And if West Ham or Tottenham, either of them can go and get an unbelievable result. I remember Sunderland one year when Connor Wickham was there. Sunderland did it a couple of seasons, didn't they? Allardyce and Dick Avocat, I think. Really weird. And West Ham did it as well for one particular year.

59:39They went on a run. No one expected them to go and get results, and they did it. Spurs have had a dreadful week again where two injuries, Solanke. and obviously Syrians, it's a big blow to them. And look, getting players back. They go away at Villa, which is a toughie for them. Villa who will have had a Europa League semi-final and you're focusing on that. I know, but I just, I don't know. I keep seeing, I know they won at Wolves, but I keep thinking that Spurs are going to get out of it and generally they've had so many poor results. We only had one win in 2026. If West Ham have a win and they get beat and any teams like Leeds pick up points or you know around them I was looking at the fixtures with Leeds and Forest if any of them get Forest could go and get something at Chelsea Chelsea are not that good at the minute as we know so Spurs well literally the numbers game will tell you if they get beat at Villa Park with three games to go if any of them around them get results they still two wins might not be enough I agree it's eminently possible this week you look at it and go they're down it's nearly done yeah even with I mean but Brent we're talking about Brent Brentford at home they lost to Manchester United Keith Andrews will be wanting his team that's no easy that's no gimme for West Ham no no it's not but I have more faith in West Ham going there and winning than I do in Spurs Hamza Villa who's going down?

1:01:02Wolves and Burnley very good I think listeners and viewers he practised that gag before we came on air and he still follows through with it that's absolutely award winning stuff from Hamza but you'd say you'd say so I'm suggesting that you maybe agree that it is just between West Ham and Tottenham? Yeah, I think so. You don't? I don't know. Don't think I can persuade you that anyone can get dragged back in. I just wanted to finish with a mention of the teams chasing the Europa League spot. Obviously, we've got a big game tonight, Nottingham Forest against Aston Villa. Gregor, you're going to be there for us.

1:01:30Very excited about that. Because there's a fascinating little development, isn't there, in this narrative? We're getting very distracted by the battle at the bottom and the idea of Tottenham potentially getting relegated. The thrilling title race we've got. But you've got a big raft of teams currently being led by Brighton, Bournemouth Chelsea are obviously in there as well Brentford Fulham Everton are still in there I mean Sunderland are still in there there's barely anyone as we said on Monday Gregor Crystal Palace have of course got the Conference League Kenny a listener in the comments pointing out that we haven't given Brighton much love of late Gregor Fabian Hurtzler we had a period maybe a couple of months ago where fans maybe weren't all that happy with how things were going it's a very underrated quietly brilliant little job he's doing isn't it if he manages to get them into European football again in recent seasons you had that stat before that a few months ago he had more points than De Zerbi so he must have demolished De Zerbi's record now right?

1:02:19That was at 50 games yeah I think when he brought up 50 games as he said at that point in time you wouldn't have known it if you were at the Amex the mood wasn't great and he wasn't you know overly loved not like De Zerbi and then Alisson obviously interviewed him just shortly after the win against Arsenal sorry the game against Arsenal and when there was that kind of bit of a set two with Arteta and it seemed that something he even admitted he was really open about it when Alisson asked him about this that seemed to sort of forge a bit of a connection between him and the fan base and then since then they've been on a brilliant run like really brilliant run I think bringing Pascal Gross back has been a masterstroke but they're just they're another team that are really fluid and there's so many so many players in whatever position they play are brilliant technically and great athletes I love Cadillac Wiefur's a midfielder who's playing right back a lot of the time I'm just reference Hinshelwood I think he's gone from strength to strength and kind of can play anywhere he can play number 10 and he can play right back he can play left back he can play midfield that's what I mean there's so many apart from the wingers wingers high and wide all the time sometimes make those into out runs but Mithomla and Minta in particular but there can be others great wingers Back to his best against Chelsea.

1:03:42I thought he was back because he looked like for a period he'd had his head turned. People were interested. Well, he's warming up for his summer transfer rooms, isn't he? There's a guy. I thought he was back to his best against Chelsea. Yeah. Anyone, pick a team to get that sixth spot. Just a team. I'd go Bournemouth because I think it would be absolute madness for Iola to get them in the Europa League and then go, thanks, lad. See you later. I'm off. I think they're as good as anybody I've seen. Yeah. Have all them teams. Gregor? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see Chelsea just sort of...

1:04:11Honestly, it's so tight, I wouldn't go. Who would you like to? Who do you think deserves it? I would really love either Brighton or Bournemouth to do it. You like the seaside? Bournemouth because Brighton have been in Europe before. Exactly, that's what I thought. Bournemouth, actually, no, the trips, it takes ages. Brighton, Liverpool, oh, my God. Paul James was late and, oh, man, get in there and watch it. He's won two awards and now he won't go any further than London. we'll have to leave it there Hamza Khalilunat, Tony Cascarino and Gregor Robertson thank you very much for joining me if you're excited about the final weekend of the football league go and listen to the EFL extra show which me and Gregor recorded earlier this week you can find it in the game feed and we'll be back with the regular show on Monday we'll see you then