EFL EXTRA: Play off contenders, relegation battles and fog

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0:55Hello and welcome to The Game, football podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is our Football League Extra Show every week with me, Tom Clark, and the former Football League defender, Gregor Robertson, looking at the highs and lows and the best and worst performances in the Championship, League One and League Two, and this week, of course, the FA Cup as well as those teams in League One and League Two take on some of their non-league counterparts. It was great fun to be had, some controversy as well, and some truly bonkers weather. But we'll get to that in part two. Let's focus on the championship.

1:30Gregor, there's loads and loads to talk about, but we've been zoning in on some teams in recent weeks and I thought it was about time that we zoned in on Cardiff City. The league's great entertainers, you have to say. In 14th at the moment, Brian Barry Murphy's side. They've only lost one in the last six. Some hugely entertaining games. Of course, we referenced it with our friend Martin Samuel on the regular show last week, that thrilling 3-0 draw with West Ham. And they had another thriller at the weekend. I really love this. Taking their goals scored tally to 27, which I think is around the sixth best in the league, but also conceded 27 goals and this was the story again on Saturday 5-4 winners against Burnley absolutely amazing can get into that game if you like or some general thoughts on Cardiff just to kick us off

2:21Gregor Robertson: I think we should start with the game because it kind of was a bit of Cardiff in a nutshell they've come up and they've dominated games in the same sort of vein as they did in League 1 which is no mean feat but the kind of how effective it was going to prove to be in the Championship was the big question. I think actually even this game was still only their fourth win of the season so there's some kind of question marks about how effective this team is going to be and this game was just absolutely bonkers. Burnley 2-0 up inside, 25 minutes Cardiff pulling one back before half time 3-1, 4-1, 4-1 is an OG by Alex Robertson which will be important right at the end with half an hour to play and then just it went wild Ramazani had a clearance which kind of deflected and fell to Salah, a bit of luck in that, 4-2 in the 65th minute then a pretty cheap penalty Moylan made it 4-3 Salah headed in the equaliser in the 82nd minute and then Alex Robertson with the goal of the game an absolute peach in the 94th minute same man who'd scored the own goal, so yeah absolutely bonkers and as you say after the reverse to that against West Ham in the week going 3-0 up and then conceding three second half goals it's hard, like I think there's a lot of warmth and kind of love for Brian Burry Murphy and his team and the football they play and also because they're so young, like this is a very youthful team, he leaned heavily on the academy in getting the team promoted last season and I think he actually, you know, the rumblings in the summer where he wanted more experience, he wanted some more signings than he actually got, but he didn't really get that much.

4:08Gregor Robertson: Moylan was the big signing. But having said all that, he's still just, partly because he has to, he's shown the faith and belief in his players that they could step up and do the same stuff that he did in League One in the Championship. And look, there are signs that they're going to, I don't think they're going to, we speak every week about the extension of the playoffs, you never know. I don't think though they're going to do they're going to they're going to make the playoffs I don't think they're going to be relegated either I think there'll be a team in the bunch in the middle but they're great fun to watch and you've got to admire them for the way they've attacked the division Yeah and I think as well I'm interested in your thoughts on the idea that bravery leads to belief because I'd watched them obviously in League One last season they'd gone toe-to-toe with Lincoln all the way to the end very contrasting styles of play as you say they dominate possession they want to play the right way as a lot of people see it in the modern game they score a lot of goals they create a lot of chances does that lead to these moments that surely leads to belief when you're creating a lot of chances and scoring a lot of goals it means that when you are 4-1 down at home as players you presumably think it's all right we can score here when you go 3-0 up against West Ham you think it's all right you know we're going to score we're going to create chances does is that would that be fair that even when you step up a level that will always keep you in a game.

5:29Gregor Robertson: Up to a point, yeah. I mean, like, Brian Barry Murphy's often asked this and he kind of, he says that he believes that the way they play is the best way to sort of realise the potential of the players individually and also to create the chances that will give them the opportunity to score, even if they're not always taking them. So yes, like, ultimately that's, you hear most people who, you know, who coach their teams to play in a sort of really expansive position dominant style of play it's because they want they believe that it's going to give them the most opportunities to create chances and score goals and also you're better defending with the ball than without it so there's theory to it but a lot of teams are pivoted away from that recently and Brian Barry Murphy is kind of a little bit out on his own now as a sort of Pep Guardiola acolyte but he's sticking with it and he's acknowledged the vulnerability of this team and their youth and the fact that they often give up chances from building play from the back.

6:29Gregor Robertson: But they have shown some character and spirit too. Think back to the Wrexham game earlier in the season when they scored really late on. That was an absolute peach. And, you know, they certainly showed it in this game too. Wild. I wanted to mention that idea of playing that way brings out the best in players. That's interesting when you think about Jack Moylan. Obviously, a lot of outsiders might be looking at it and thinking, hang on, he was Lincoln's best player and he left Lincoln to go to Cardiff. obviously Cardiff a much bigger club than Lincoln but in terms of having promoted to the league why didn't you go to a bigger club and Jack Moylan did an interview actually with Paul Rowan in the Sunday Times where he talks about the influence of Brian Barry Murphy obviously there's an Irish connection between the two of them as well but it's clear to see both as a Lincoln fan and as a you know analytical night with an analytical mindset that that's what it's about for a player like Jack Moylan, he's gone, this team and this way of playing is going to allow me to produce my best.

7:26And to be honest, there's an idea that maybe it's a stepping stone for him to bigger things. Because I think a lot of Lincoln fans were split on, is Jack Moylan an absolute superstar in League One that might not be able to cut it in the championship? Or there were others who went, nah, nah, this guy is playing at about second gear, there's more to come, and they're the ones who've been proved right. But it only works in Cardiff's team. I'm hesitant to admit it, but it's true it probably wouldn't have worked in Lincoln's team with the way Lincoln play with much less possession fewer chances for Moylan to get on the ball drop the shoulder and bang one in from 30 yards although I have to say it does hurt as a Lincoln fan seeing him already be on 11 goals in all comps by the middle of November but I mean he's a huge talent isn't he and I mean I picked him out in the football times football newsletter as one who potentially you might be thinking it It would be a bit early to move in January, but it's interesting to think about Brentford, assistant manager Damien Duff.

8:22Moylan credits him with basically kind of resurrecting or kick-starting his career at Shelbourne in Ireland. There's that Irish connection with Keith Andrews as well. Brentford have been known for a cheeky championship signing every now and again. I'm basically trying to talk him up because Lincoln have got a big sell-on fee in here in the clause in this deal. It's too early, Tom.

8:41Gregor Robertson: They've got no chance, not yet. I mean, look, if you keep scoring goals, at this rate in the Championship. You know, he's full international now. There's every chance he'll get a shot in the Premier League and probably in the not-too-distant future, but there's no way Cardiff can sell him maybe through the season after just signing him and spending a lot of money for the first time in ages on a player. But your point is right. Only Middlesbrough average more possession of the ball. Cardiff have got the second-highest expected goals tally in the division. And this is a team that's, what did you say, 14th?

9:16Gregor Robertson: 15th yeah 14th sorry I know you're right you look at the kind of project and you're right it's a team that's been promoted they're not being a bit of a basket case for a few years gone by they're just kind of settling themselves and there wasn't going to be a great investment in the squad you think hmm but he was going to a team with a manager who was going to set the team up to get him a lot of chances in front of goal and it's proven to be the case so far so there's not one way of playing football that's the truth these days it used to be the case that everyone tried to emulate this sort of brand of football and fell flat on their faces Cardiff do so sometimes but they're actually pretty good at it and so far Brian Barry Murphy has been vindicated Yeah absolutely really really entertaining stuff from Cardiff always a great watch and as you say a brilliant finish from full-back Alex Robertson, another player who could be on his way up through the pyramid in the coming years, I'm sure.

10:20Just a quick word on Burnley, Gregor. An absolute disaster, this one, for the new manager Fabio Celestini. Players that we've mentioned on this podcast before, I like Ramazani from the game that I saw him. He was the only bright spark when Burnley lost to Lincoln in their game. He got a good goal here, but as you mentioned earlier, a mistake for one of theirs conceded. Marcus Edwards, a player that you incredulously said, Marcus Edwards, come on, Marcus Edwards. A really good player. Scored an excellent goal in this one. And you're just thinking, right, 4-1 at Cardiff. Brilliant. And it all just falls apart.

10:52More shocking defending overall. It's a huge, huge job he's got, hasn't it? Just the belief that must be absent within that squad.

11:00Gregor Robertson: Well, yeah. I mean, the fact that, you know, in his first couple of games, he'd shored things up a bit. I think it's a goalless draw against Portsmouth. One-all draw at QPR. are, you know, I think he seems a bit more content to soak up pressure and strike on the counter-attack. And that's like, you saw that for a couple of the early goals. And he looked incredulous afterwards about how they'd possibly let this happen. And it was just moments of real sloppiness. Like I say, the clearance from Ramazani, who scored a brilliant goal beforehand, just, it was unlucky, but it was also just really sloppy.

11:37Gregor Robertson: You can of half hacked at the ball and it struck someone and bounced straight into Salik's path and then the penalty that they conceded at the back post was just needless really so yeah like just must be kind of spirit sapping for them to have played so well actually and execute the game plan really well and then completely trash it in the final half an hour. Yeah difficult times for Burnley fans they remain in the bottom three we'll take a closer look at some of the teams around them who got big wins at the weekend but let's go to the top of the table Middlesbrough drawing nil nil at Watford without Will Lankshire turns out no goals no Will Lankshire no party whatsoever for Kim Helberg we'll see whether the international break can get him back up to fitness Borough will be desperate for that that draw allowed Birmingham to go top of the table Gregor aside we've picked out plenty in recent weeks they beat Swansea late on to sit top of the tree to continue their excellent form Stoke still in third after another win this time at Portsmouth and another goal for Jack McGlynn maybe not as good as some of his recent screamers but he won't mind at all to keep that goal scoring run going but we wanted to pick out the two teams in fourth and fifth just below Stoke you've got Wolves in fourth just a point behind Stoke and the rest of the top three and West Brom as well also on 28 points they've both been on excellent unbeaten runs Wolves unbeaten in seven since a 1-0 defeat against Middlesbrough a month ago and West Brom unbeaten in six they had those back-to-back defeats against local rivals Wolves and Birmingham, lots of suggestions that people like me had got carried away with their early season form but James Morrison's side bouncing back, unbeaten in six and a big home win against Millwall at the weekend.

13:32Take your pick on those two teams Greg, I just thought it was worth a bit of a deep dive on both of them. Wolves we've mentioned, even amongst their fan base, still an idea that maybe they've still not fully clicked but I mean unbeaten in seven's pretty good.

13:43Gregor Robertson: Yeah it's a strange half glass half empty half full or half empty because you're right in a lot of measures they're doing pretty well I think they've got the second best expected goal difference in the league behind Middlesbrough so the quality of the chances they're creating and conceding suggests that they're dominating most games but you're right even a couple of weeks ago Pizzotto was kind of jeered during the 1-0 win against Watford they were saying you don't know what you're doing I think there's a bit of unease about the fact that he keeps selecting Munetzi in midfield ahead of Jordan James I think Jordan James had a bit of an injury at the weekend anyway but Jordan James is someone who's a brilliant player at this level and a bit more kind of a creative force as opposed to a destroyer is a bit reductive but you get my point I think they want to see a bit more attack and thrust so it's a bit of a strange answer maybe not quite the connection that they would have hoped for but look there's not been a connection between supporters and manager and players and supporters for quite a long time at Wolves if I'm being honest Rob Edwards did his best to try and build something there and it looked like he might do so briefly but then that kind of collapsed as well towards the end of the season in the Premier League and Peixoto despite a decent start hasn't quite built that bond yet so, but yeah you're right we said at the start of the season how hard it is for teams to relegate it to kind of recalibrate and attack the division kind of smoothly and they've got some hugely talented players like Fer Lopez has shown that he's an outstanding talent belatedly after being signed for quite a lot of money in the Premier League but he looks like one of the best players in the division same with Matthias Mane Adam Armstrong scored an absolute beauty against Rexham I mean did you see this long pass from Nasser Jiga which was equally beautiful and then just watched it over his shoulder and struck it first time Adam Armstrong will score a bucket load of goals in the championship he kind of always does but they've got they've got about four players that could score a bucket load of goals in the championship haven't they it's still this I mean I would look at it as a neutral and this is easy to say because I wouldn't be saying if it was my team but this is a good thing, surely.

16:11There's a platform here. They're only a point off the top of the table.

16:14Gregor Robertson: Yeah, there's this idea, like we said earlier in the season about Middlesbrough, if when they click, then the division better watch out, but there's no guarantee they will. Like, it's not, that's not a foregone conclusion. But you're right. Ultimately, if this is how they're playing and you feel like there's more to come, that's not a bad place to be for Wolves. I just think they've had a pretty dispiriting few seasons where a lot of the things that make you happy to go and watch your team every week were eroded. And they rattled through a few managers and ultimately came to a very dispiriting relegation in the Premier League.

17:00Gregor Robertson: and I think they want to see a bit more kind of joy on a Saturday and that's not always what's been provided at Molyneux so far this season despite many positive results. Yeah, Wolves fans, get in touch with me tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk Is it about more joy? Is it about more flair? Is it about more goals? What is it you want to see from Cesar Pesotto's team? I'd be fascinated to know the team below them, West Brom though unlike Wolves with those expectations West Brom fans just keen for a really good season after a really difficult campaign last time out. And boy, are they getting it under James Morrison and his young, exciting team.

17:39I am delighted, not only because I tipped them to have an outside chance of the playoffs at the start of the season, but I love it when a team responds, Gregor. You know, they had that great start. They had those two 1-0 defeats that I mentioned. They'd be easy to make accusations that, ah, Birmingham Wolves, that's your benchmark. You can't hack it. But then to respond with six unbeaten, they're still playing lovely, lovely stuff. Isaac Price, a player that you've raved about, and rightly so. What a lovely first goal in this one. Oh, beautiful. Who does he run like? Who does he run like? I can't, every time I watch him, there's someone from like 90s, noughties football that he runs like.

18:19He's got a like, it's a bit Dimitar Berbatov-esque. It's a bit. Yeah, there's something languid and kind of elegant. It's a little bit like, you know, the way Verón, Juan Sebastian Verón used to run. Yeah. Where he kind of always kept the ball, but never looked like he was sprinting. It's a beautiful way he glides across the pitch. If you've never seen him before, listeners, go and watch the highlights to this win against Millwall because that first goal is a great example of what Isaac Price does. Glides through the middle of the pitch and even his shot doesn't smash it, just passes it from a long way out into the bottom corner.

18:53Yeah, he's 25 yards out

18:55Gregor Robertson: and he just opened up and as you say, inside of the foot pass. But it was just judged perfectly because the bounce makes it so much harder for the goalkeeper. You land the bounce a little bit outside, I don't know, maybe 10 yards from goal and that just kind of catapults it forward and makes it harder for the goalkeeper to get to. And it was so nonchalant. It was beautiful. So that's his sixth goal of the season. Got his third assist of the season as well when he set up Hornmire for the third late on. What a great goal that was as well. Brilliant move. I think it was Kareem Tunde with the little kind of flip-flap skill on the side of the pitch to start the move.

19:38A lovely, lovely goal. West Brom just play some lovely stuff when they're really on it. It's fantastic to watch.

19:44Gregor Robertson: Yeah, and this is a kind of, I don't know, a bit of a hybrid team. They've got some players who are young, so much potential. you feel will kick on and make the Premier League and West Brom fans will desperately hope it's with them and Price is the standout of them but you'd say the same about Jimmy J Morgan and then they've brought in Chris Meppam who's experienced and I don't think was ever quite cut out for the Premier League but is a decent defender at this level Nat Phillips as well who's kind of turned into a bit of a warrior Callum Stiles has become a leader and he's always been really versatile and can play midfield, can play left back and I think he played right back a few weeks ago in one game and I think he scored in that game but he's kind of really stepped up throw Molumbe into that category as well, Hegebo is like he doesn't always get the good goals you'd like but he's a real handful as well to play against I don't think they've got enormous strength and depth you saw like Barney Stewart coming on he scored a couple of weeks ago but he's not really made the same impact yet, Horne Meyer is often coming off the bench and scoring if they get an injury a tough run with injuries I think you will see that reflected in results but they're really exciting to watch I just love James Morrison's interviews as well, he's so measured and calm but you feel there's a steely I don't know bit of bite underneath it all and I think you would see that in the changing rooms at times I don't know, I feel like he could be quite ruthless as well but he obviously had a couple of spells as interim, kept him up last season really like richly deserved to get a crack at the job on a full time permanent basis and he's grasping the opportunity he looks like as someone with a coach of real potential as well.

21:51Yeah, maybe James Morrison's dual personality mirrored in the dual personalities of his team experience and youth and vibrancy. Brilliant to see West Brom doing so well after some difficult times for the club. Just below them, Swansea, as I mentioned, beaten by Birmingham there in six. Southampton, a shock defeat for them at Preston. We'll come on to that in just a second. Scott Parker's start to life as West Ham manager continues to be a bit tough and bleak, beaten at Blackburn Rovers Tony Mobriside continuing to perform against the odds, another goal for Good Johnson, he's having a brilliant season but West Ham's defeat meant that QPR jumped over them into the playoffs in 8th place after a 2-1 win at home against Lincoln City, Gregor I was there for this one QPR a team that we've mentioned before, one of our few good predictions we thought they might have a decent season they're a really good team I'm not sure having seen them now for 90 minutes against someone as crap as Lincoln.

22:49That's a joke. I don't know whether they're quite top eight. When we think about maybe West Brom, when we think about Stoke, Swansea, you've got this group of teams who are the outsiders, aren't they, in this top 10, top eight. I think if we were looking back, maybe Birmingham we thought would be up there, maybe not first. Middlesbrough, Wolves, Southampton, West Ham. You've then got these other teams, QPR, Swansea, West Brom, Stoke, that are maybe a little bit the outsiders of the pack. QPR were well worth the win in this game. They were a better team, though Lincoln had some chances. Glenn Kamara in the middle of the pitch.

23:27What a classy, classy player he is in the Championship. Goodness me, if Lincoln had half a player of Glenn Kamara's composure in midfield, we'd be doing a lot better. So it was a really interesting game. Pierce Charles as well in goal looks like he plays like a 30 year old I think he's only 21 he's got such composer so good on the ball which is important for a modern goalkeeper so I was impressed but maybe not blown away to the extent I have been not blown away but not kind of overly impressed and I mean that respectfully to QPR fans who I know listen to this show I think eighth competing for eighth is where they're going to be this season and if I had to guess I think they might just fall a little bit short but it's a great win and a great start for them isn't it

24:08Gregor Robertson: absolutely the thing that gave me optimism for QPR this season was the quality of their attack and like perhaps not consistency, I think we did say that and we're possibly seeing that but even coming off on the bench in this game was Karamoku Dembele I like Koki Saito, I think he's a really good player Ryan Coley was on the bench and you've seen flickers from him Elias Chair came off the bench as well Elias Chair came off, yeah You've got Poku who's staying fit and is making an impact in some games. And obviously, Coney scored a couple of goals recently, but he's taken a while to make an impact on the team as well.

24:48Gregor Robertson: And you've still got Roman Burrell. So that was the thing that gave you some excitement about keeper of the season. So I still think that's possible. I still think a few of them hit a rich vein of form and the championship better watch out. but you know if you're saying that uh you're slightly less sure i'm only saying in the long run i think you could be right and i think they could put runs together but i think if we're we're 15 games in we're starting to picture where things are going if you compare them to say west brom with what we've just talked about i'd say having watched both teams now they're maybe just a little bit below west brom but i could be wrong and you're quite right to highlight all those attacking players it was very funny funny in retrospect it wasn't funny at the time being in the away end and those players are coming on Dembele, Chair and all of us Lincoln fans are going, oh for God's sake.

25:39If only we had a player like that. Elias Chair has scored a couple of goals in his career against Lincoln City. He's got an ability to hit one from about 25 yards and bend it straight into the top corner. So they've got the talent. I would say I'm just a little cautious. They could well get eighth. I don't know whether they'd get any higher. Maybe QPR fans would disagree but they've had a few responses to this podcast so far this season. I don't think they'll mind me talking down their expectations. I think the idea that they could be challenging for the playoffs is no bad thing. I should just say, Gregor, one lovely, lovely thing.

26:11We've already talked about things that I've been learning from my new away days this season. One great thing about QPR. The stadium announcer was top, top notch. Not only did he do a belting introduction to the last post and all the kind of remembrance stuff. Very classy touch, read out the names of the former players of both sides. who had died in the wars. Then at half-time, he did something that I've not had at a game for so long. He read out the other scores. You never get that anymore. He read out the scores in the Championship and he said, oh, while we're here, I'll do the Premier League as well.

26:42It was great. You know these days, you're at the game. If you're in the stands, you get your phone out. There's no reception because there's too many people in one place. You can never find out the scores. He just read the scores out. It was a lovely, lovely moment. Very old school. I felt like I was back in the 90s, especially with that old ground at Loftus Road, which I actually enjoyed a lot more than people have said. A lot more people have said. Everyone had been like, oh, the view's terrible, blah, blah, blah. I actually thought it was great, especially for that 25 minutes or so when Lincoln were 1-0 in that game, but a good win.

27:13For QPR, one of the scores, Gregor, that was read out that Lincoln fans did enjoy hearing about at this game was Norwich 5-0 winners at Bristol City, slightly because some mischievous away Lincoln fans might not be too upset to see our former manager Michael Scubala really, really under pressure at Bristol City, booed off the pitch at this one. Norwich keep coming. Four wins on the spin now. More goals. They are coming. They are coming. That's the other thing to think about, I think, with teams.

27:42Gregor Robertson: Three points off the playoffs. That's the other thing to think. That's what I mean about teams like QPR and even Swansea or West Brom. They've got a team like Norwich who, if it gets together, I think are as strong. and then you've still got West Ham outside the playoffs as well. Who knows if Sheffield United? I just think there's teams that could still come and are showing that. Norwich definitely being one of those. I wanted to ask about Wrexham, Gregor, a team that we kind of have mentioned but haven't done in any great detail this season. Not having the campaign they would want. So many comparisons, of course, made with Birmingham City.

28:20Both sides promoted at the same time. Birmingham sitting top of the tree. Wrexham in 15th just below Cardiff who we mentioned earlier of course they got a draw at the weekend with Wolves after a win last weekend so much needed points for them but thoughts on Wrexham this season everyone keeps talking about has Phil Parkinson gone as far as he can not just me I've said it on the show but plenty of other people starting to say it now as well or is this just a sign of a really competitive league?

28:46Gregor Robertson: Interestingly they've actually got three points fewer than this stage last season they're almost identical in terms of like Goals per game Goals per series I think they've drawn six games And they've won one fewer So actually They obviously had the run of three defeats in four games But then To follow that with A win against Middlesbrough And a draw against Wolves Two teams who are heavily fancied to be Promoted Was a good response going into the international I think eased the pressure a little bit on Phil Parkets and it has been building a little bit I think there's still enormous goodwill towards him and even if there are some people who do deep down think he's taken them as far as he can it's time to change it up a bit.

29:35Gregor Robertson: I don't think anyone wants that to happen or for that to be the case. They've still got one of the best defences in the league. Based on XG they've got the fourth best defence in the league. They're a really hard team to play against and it's not always shown in results. far this season the opposite is true in terms of attack but I'd say that was the case last season really they're not a team that create a bucket load of chances they're quite direct and you know heavily reliant on Kiefer Moore banging a few goals in with his head, I think he's got 5 goals this season but they've taken the fourth few shots in the league and then some of their new signings have taken a little while to acclimatise and settle in but I think they are beginning to.

30:24Gregor Robertson: Calum O 'Hare, Joe Worrell at the back, Ben Whiteman in midfield, Issa Kabori, right wing back. I think they'll all be good signings for them. And they're all very Wrexham signings. It's following the same blueprint they have all the way. You get to this point and you think, are you going to start to sprinkle a bit of stardust on it? I don't think Phil Parkinson wants stardust or any forms of stars anywhere near as this team. He just wants solid citizens. more and more experience at the level and I think he believes that his kind of solid structure and that experience is going to be enough to get them to help them climb the league and get into the playoffs and let's not forget they came very close last season although it has been a sort of slightly disconcerting start to the season for some people at Wrexham I don't think it'd be wise to write them off just yet.

31:19A great reminder that it is a long, long way to go. 15 games is a lot of games. It gives you a good idea there's an awful long way to go in the Championship. Let's finish with a look at three big wins for teams at the bottom of the table. Gregor Charlton, 2-1 winners at home against Sheffield United. They're in 19th. Derby County in 23rd. They got a Friday night win at home against Bolton Wanderers and Preston North End. Graham Alexander, his first win off and running with a 1-0 win at home against Southampton. Goodness me, I bet people who like a bet at the weekend were absolutely cursing that one.

31:58That is a coupon buster if ever you heard it. Three big wins there, as I say. Three teams who desperately needed some positivity going into the international break. And particularly with those two teams at the bottom, it really tightens it up a little bit, doesn't it? down the bottom. You've got Preston on 8, Derby and Burnley on 10, then Lincoln and Watford both on 15 points, then you've got Charlton and Bolton on 17, then there's that raft of mid-table teams on 18 points. It's very tight and it does just show as we always say, anyone can beat anyone.

32:29Gregor Robertson: Yeah, I mean it's injected some life into the race to avoid relegation at the bottom of the table. Like Preston, it's been a long, long time since they tasted victory, it's obviously Graham Alexander's first win, great volley by Jordan Thompson and then they defended they were really good in the first half I think but in the second half they defended for the lives, Lee Nicholls made 8 saves, first clean sheet of the season, there was one in particular from an absolute pile driver by Wellington that was just brilliant, I don't know how he managed to get to the ball quickly enough to push it over the bar or wide it was just a brilliant instinctive save so yeah really I'm placed for Graham Alexander I think he's a good manager but he's taken on a very difficult task so that was a big big moment I'll inject some belief into the players and everyone at Deepdale Charlton had been in a living game winless run like you know it was getting really really sticky for Nathan Jones and I think you saw the relief on his face in his interview afterwards he was just so full of praise and pride for his players I didn't see any run down the touchline or anything but I wouldn't have been surprised if there was a lot of fist bumping behind closed doors and yeah Derby, it came from nowhere it really did, it was an extraordinary game they were 1-0 down against Bolton, Ruben Rodriguez scored in the first half and they were booed off again, it was like this is just getting it's going from bad to worse and then they scored two goals in the space of four minutes at the start of the second half like just absolutely came out and blitzkrieged them it was extraordinary so and every and Brewster score in the 94th minute to kind of give confirmation of the winning it was rocket scenes in South Bay Park so yeah like Eustace had been asked on a weekly basis almost for a number of weeks now are you surprised to be in the dugout still?

34:29Gregor Robertson: there seems to be still a lot of faith behind the scenes in the hierarchy at Derby in Eustace and that's good to see to be honest I don't think anything's changed in terms of how good a manager he is and he's done a really good job up until this season but we spoke in recent weeks about all the context and how difficult a summer they had as a football club with a failed takeover and then so many injuries an extraordinary number of injuries so for them to get that win maybe a couple of weeks now to get a few players back fitting on the pitch you never know you might see Derby starting to climb up the table too Derby starting to climb up the table backing for Graham Alexander all things that might well be true and good analysis from Gregor Robertson as always but not what you want to hear as a Lincoln City fan with your team in free fall because who the hell is going to finish below us it doesn't sound like anyone at the minute but I'll save my woe for another show in a few weeks at a time let's take a quick break and we'll come back and we'll have a bit of fun and analysis of the FA Cup first round to stick with us.

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37:22Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is our Football League Extra Show with me, Tom Clark, and the former Football League defender, Gregor Robertson. Perhaps for this second half of the show, Gregor, we should temporarily name it the FA Cup Extra Show, because that's where we're going to the first round. Some great stories, some bonkers stories, and some truly mad weather at this time of year. Loads of things we could pick out. I wanted to just start by mentioning one of the games that kicked us off at the weekend, Oxford City losing. but impressively I would say against Leicester Leicester probably the biggest team in the competition at this stage losing Exxon City, losing 4-2 but Josh Ashby's lobbed finish in this one what a lovely, lovely goal it was one of those where you're like if you're going to score on telly in the FA Cup I'd like it to be a goal like that and in celebration as well he didn't go too wild he was like yeah fine, no biggie just a little running through little dink over the keeper no bother with that one other things that you noticed Gregor from the first round of the FA Cup

38:25Gregor Robertson: I mean it's got to be Wimborne's win against Crawley 2-0 win like richly deserved I think Crawley landed two attempts on target all game and Yang Sung Wu scored an absolute beauty like the goal of the round unbelievable a goal that would deservedly take centre stage in the Premier League just a beautiful strike and struck so cleanly and like one of those that dips into the up and down into the top corner absolute beauty I think it was Wimborne's second ever appearance in the first round and look they've just deservedly beaten a team three tiers, 57 places higher than them in the pyramid and Kevin Blackwell was kind of a bit shell-shocked afterwards I've never been involved in anything like this before so not a great start for Blackwell at Crawley.

39:21No, I would say as well all full, full credit to Wimbledon they've got Bradford in the second round of the FA Cup, a fantastic win but if you were going to get any league team to get a scalp against it was probably Crawley in this first round given the struggles they've been having in League 2 Gregor, I also wanted to just mention and give a little polite boo for spoiling our fun to Grimsby Town, your former club and Stockport County because come on lads, Stafford Rangers and Cray Wanderers. We're so, so close in both these games to famous, famous victories. Grimsby, your old lads. Late equalisers, winning on penalties.

39:58There's no fun in that. Come on, for goodness sake. The world is tough as it is. We all need a lift, Grimsby Town. I know you've got a nice away kit, but that was really poor form. And Stockport. Stockport. Goodness me. 81 minutes, get one back. 90 plus one, Michael Mandron getting an equaliser and then a winner. in extra time. No one wants to see it, Stockport. We're delighted that you're having a good season in League One, but no one wanted that. No one. So I'm just really upset, but well played to Cray Wanderers and Stafford Rangers. A really, really brilliant effort in the first round. And I will forever be slightly angry at Grimsby Town and Stockport for that one.

40:38I should also mention as well, Gregor, we always keep talking about him, which is proof of his box office status in the Football League. But Robbie Savage, beaten by his son, Charlie Savage, who scored in this one. And I've got to say, we talk a lot about Robbie Savage and his demeanour on the touchline. You know, loves his amateur dramatics. His acting for this one when his son scored was superb, I thought. I don't know whether he saw this. He knew the camera would pan to him and he's like, I've got to look professional here. It's a pretty good goal from my son charging into the box. And he did a sort of great, incredulous, like what was that defending type thing to one of his coaches?

41:15Which I thought was quite impressive given that his son had probably just scored a goal and there was probably a little bit of him, a tiny, tiny little bit of him that was like, go on, my boy, even though it was against his own team.

41:25Gregor Robertson: I also quite enjoyed his boy defending him because of some slightly colourful songs about his dad from his own supporters from the Reading fans. So he was like, I didn't quite, you know, I didn't appreciate that, guys. He wasn't too strong. He was trying to be quite, you know, political about it, but he made the point. I didn't appreciate that, guys. No. So not a great day for the Savage family all round. No, and we might have a few more pounds to put in the no-var jar. I know it doesn't count necessarily in the Football League, but goodness me, the penalty given for Plymouth Parkway against Berkhamstead on Monday night's game is a true shocker.

42:04The goalkeeper charging for the ball, jumping in the air with an opposition player, punching the ball and somehow being penalised for a foul on that player. Truly bizarre. Maybe the referee was seeking to kind of atone for all the generous treatment that goalkeepers generally get in the box. But this was a bonkers one, wasn't it?

42:24Gregor Robertson: It was, yeah. I mean, you know, you can get some serious, when goalkeepers come out and, you know, try and punch and get some dangerous coming togethers, of course. But this wasn't one of them. He punched the ball and the attacker was kind of brushed off him to the side. And most importantly, he got to the ball first. It wasn't dangerous or reckless. It was very, very, very unlucky indeed. Yeah, Plymouth Parkway going on to win that one as well, adding to the controversy. But Gregor, let's finish with a quick mention for the heavy fog that affected the match between Altrincham and Notts County.

43:02There were actually, I think, some good goals in this game, a 2-2 draw, where Notts County eventually winning on penalties 3-2. Lots of very funny social media content of like, this is a great goal, you just can't see it. But it was truly extraordinary, wasn't it? The fact that the game continued. I mean, have you ever played in anything like that?

43:21Gregor Robertson: I have, yes. But I had an epic FA Cup saga against Droylesden when I was playing for Chesterfield. This was in 2008. So my God, I just Googled that and that makes me feel very old. So the first game we were playing at the old Saltergate, you know, used for filming of the Damned United. And the fog came in. they were 1-0 up and the game was abandoned at halftime and they were like in tears really yeah extremely angry about it all were you in tears as well you're like i can't be arsed with this well we didn't really really didn't want to do it again let's put it that way when when you say when you say it was abandoned like how bad are we talking because as fans you know i've sat in the stands before where you know the fog comes in and you're like oh god i can't see the other side of the pitch but you're playing on presumably because you can see at least 30 yards in front of you what are we talking here like you literally couldn't see what five ten yards in front of you how bad are we talking well if i'm playing as a fullback and i'm you know 10 yards from in from the touchline i couldn't see the other side of the pitch that you can yeah it was it was unplayable and like it had to stop but they were because they were ahead and because they're you know part-time there would have been a not the biggest scalp but a scalp yeah they were really really upset and and it was a the saga continued we played them again and our striker Jack Lester lobbed the goalkeeper instead of playing a pass back and so it was like we had to let them run up the pitch and score an equaliser and our chairman our old chairman at the time As in so sorry you mean as in he should have given the ball back it was like a drop ball type thing or a throw in or something Yeah And he scored I threw it to him it was bouncing and he should have passed it back to the goalkeeper and he lobbed the goalkeeper to score.

45:13Gregor Robertson: So then everyone kicked off and you said... Yeah, you think they were upset in the first game. My goodness, people ran on the pitch from their bench. They were going wild. It was like, threatened to turn ugly. We were like, the manager was like, you've got to let them run through and score into our net. And our chairman was leaning over from the thing like, don't let them do it. He was thinking of the prize money. Don't do it. Don't do it. But we did. We let them run through and scored. So then we went to a replay at their place and we were playing in the replay and I think it got to we were winning in this point and it got to whatever the cut off point is before a game when a game is abandoned I think maybe the 74th minute or something and the floodlights mysteriously failed oh my god and we were like are you taking the piss guys and so the game had to be abandoned their chairman's out the back pulling the cords out the game had to be abandoned and we had to play a fourth game Oh my God We had to go back And they beat us And then afterwards It transpired that the guy Who'd scored a win And goes Actually turned out To be a good player I think his name was Sean Newton Left back Did he play for Lincoln?

46:20He played for Lincoln Yeah Good left foot Yeah

46:22Gregor Robertson: Yeah he scored a winner Turned out he was ineligible He was banned So we got We went through To the next round Against Ipswich That is So that was That was an epic The fog was only part of it But the fog You know Started it all Started the saga I think you've got a book in that mate it's literally like it was and it destroyed our chances of having a Christmas do that year really devastated we were there's so many different layers to that that are actually the real issues one of the great great stories maybe one of your best stories ever mate definitely saved the best till last if you were a fan who was at any of those games and you happen to be listening to this show do get in touch with me tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk I'd love to hear the other side or maybe a contrasting side to that story.

47:11A brilliant example of the madness that you can get in the FA Cup and further down the football pyramid. Gregor Robertson, thank you very much for joining me. As always, not just for your excellent analysis, but for great tales of your playing days like that one. Thank you too for listening. We'll be back with another EFL Extra show next week. And we'll be back with the regular show on Thursday. Find out whether Michael Karik or Pierre Sarge might have been sacked by the time we record. We'll see you then.

48:04We'll see you next time. worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's go.gle slash workspace with Gemini. Hi, this is Robert Mayes from The Athletic Football Show. In the market to buy a new car, you're not alone. Navy Federal Credit Union members have a helping hand, technically a helping globe, a mission assistant whose mission is guiding you through your car buying journey, offering low rates that can save you more. Your mission assistant helps you budget, Estimate your payment and understand your terms so you roll into dealership ready to negotiate on your terms.

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