EFL EXTRA: West Ham turn to Scott Parker

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1:26Hello and welcome to The Game, a football podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is our Football League Extra show. Every week with me, Tom Clark, and the former Football League legend, Gregor Robertson, looking at the best and worst of the Championship, League one and league two gregor we have to start with west ham united we're into november there's an international break coming sacking season is officially up and running nuno espirito santo sacked after two home defeats to southampton and west brom conceding six goals in both those games very un-nuno-esque before we come on to talk about his replacement scott parker which has been announced this Wednesday morning.

2:08Your reaction first to that sacking, because West Ham are still near the top of the table. This is a championship that is in massive flux this season. We're going to come on to that later on in terms of the movers and shakers and how two wins can catapult you up the table. But your reaction first to the sacking of Nuno?

2:24Gregor Robertson: A bit conflicted about it, to be honest. I mean, I think when we discussed West Ham at the start of the season, I think I said, and a lot of people shared the sentiment, I was surprised that he was still there. both like the fact that he was willing to tackle the championship with West Ham and the fact that West Ham stuck with him so from both sides I was surprised then there was the whole conversation about his football and how that will translate to the championship and most teams who win the league these days are pretty dominant and that's not Nuno's go-to style of play he's a pretty conservative coach but then having said that it's a month ago he won September's Manager of the Month they smashed, we were waxing lyrical about them when they smashed Wrexham 6-0 and they beat your lot 6-0 as well albeit with 9 men they were really dominating the game against Derby as well I think that was 3-0 but so like should they or would he have won promotion?

3:26Gregor Robertson: quite possibly they're 4 points off second it's not beyond the realms that he would have led them to promotion. I just think that the fans were always going to turn quite quickly if they weren't meeting expectations. And the fact that those two defeats back-to-back were at home, the atmosphere turned a bit toxic. And I feel like they decided that they weren't going to take it any further. And Scott Parker is clearly someone who will come in. He's got affinity with the club. He played for the club. He's won three promotions, although in slightly different circumstances, as everyone just says, oh, he was promoted as Bournemouth, Fulham and Burnley, recently relegated teams.

4:08Gregor Robertson: He either was relegated with those teams or he arrived in the summer and he had the chance to rebuild or certainly overhaul the squad. That has been bungled in the summer. West Ham have a great group of players, but they've a really thin squad. So there's a lot to this. And as I say, I wouldn't have been surprised if Munro had led them to promotion. Just before we come on to Parker then, do you think and just this is slightly from listening to you there we talked so much already this season about this elongated playoffs that we've got in the championship and how that keeps we keep joking everyone in it not quite everyone but it'll keep a lot of teams in the hunt for the you know hallowed glory of the premier league do you think it in a weird way it might make teams like west ham southampton middlesbrough maybe even wolves go crike i don't want to be in that so that actually if you're a team destined if you like to be up there up there in that top eight you're going we have to get in that top two because we don't want to be anywhere near this chaos which is now going to be even more chaotic than normal so the fact that west west ham sorry dropped down a little bit adds to that sense of panic and desperation that maybe we've seen here maybe perhaps but i mean like ultimately from second to tenth you can throw a blank over those teams with four points like and you know we're 14 games into the season that's not an insignificant chunk of of uh of games and yes it's going to be chaotic at the end of the season to see who gets into the playoffs but i would i don't think you know you're right in the way you framed that like west arm aren't thinking about the playoffs they they expect to be getting in the automatic promotion places if not winning the league and it's it's not always straight we said at the start of the season it won't be straightforward like they've got some hugely talented players for the level some players who are too good for the level but they also have some kind of very thin areas of their squad and I think in recent times like Mavropanos is injured and they've had to play an academy graduate in central defence like that's been illuminated in recent weeks so that's not Nuno's fault but at the same by the same measure he knew what West Ham were as a football club and he decided to stay.

6:23Gregor Robertson: He thought he could achieve promotion despite all of that. Be very interesting to see if and where Nuno Espirito Santo pops up again this season. You half wonder whether someone in desperation might give him another crack at the Premier League if they're fighting down the bottom. On to Scott Parker then. Perhaps the most obvious choice for any managerial appointment in the history of football, Gregor. Scott Parker, former West Ham legend, of course. 109 appearances for the club, won various awards in his time there. out of work a championship promotion specialist as you've already mentioned Fulham Bournemouth and Burnley he's got out of the championship two and a half year deal Gary Jacob reporting on the Times website that we believe there is a break clause at the end of the season if promotion is not achieved that could be activated so then the big question is Grego will he do it again will he make a fourth promotion from the championship with West Ham I mean he has he has a good chance but I will come back to what I said there the Fulham team he went up with, I believe he came down with them actually as well and he had we say that West Ham have a talented group of players in relation to the championship that was even more so that Fulham team and I think they had to go up through the playoffs Bournemouth I think that was their second season after relegation and they kind of just got over the line at the very death, I remember being at that game I think it was against Nottingham Forest to kind of to put it was basically a decider for the last automatic promotion place and obviously the Burnley team were just had a historically good defensive record and a goalkeeper who saved them like I think it was you know the data Boffin said 12 goals unexpected goals value something ridiculous to that in James Trafford two penalties in one game I think it wasn't there against Sunderland at one point so yes it's a great record and he's used to the kind of context he's used to have a manager and a squad of players who, you know, have got some players who think they should be playing the Premier League and, you know, slightly bigger egos than you might expect in the Championship.

8:29Gregor Robertson: But I think this is a slightly different context. I do. Like, I think those squads were all pretty well stacked. West Ham's is, in terms of a starting 11, and a few after that. But if they get any injuries, then there's not much he can do about that. But having said all that, they still have Jared Bowen. They still have Manu Solomon. They still have Joel Pirro. They still have players who are really outstanding players at this level. And if he can get a bit of positivity at the London Stadium, that's no mean feat. If he can do that, then he's got every chance. Yeah, we will see what is to come for Scott Parker.

9:09He's going straight into the dugout, Gregor. Have you seen that for the game tonight, Wednesday night against Cardiff? No doubt delighting Martin Samuel, of course. West Ham fan and one of the big proponents of the idea that a manager doesn't sit in the stands. Once you've taken charge, you get straight in the dugout. So we'll see how they get on. And maybe we'll do a little bonus EFL segment with Martin on Thursday's show from the studio. West Ham in eighth at the moment, as I say, completing that playoff picture. Wolves and Southampton just above them. West Brom fighting back after a few little dips in form with that win at West Ham.

9:43They're in fifth. Swansea continuing their inconsistent form. They conceded a late defeat at Portsmouth. They're in fourth. We're going to come on to talk about Stoke in just a second, but a quick word for Birmingham City, Gregor. They beat Lincoln at the weekend. I watched this game. Reminder again that maybe our shout for Birmingham getting up and about it this season is not a bad one. As well as having Liam Miller and Jay Stansfield in the 10, I really, really like August Prisket up front. 22 years old, Scandinavian. He scored two excellent goals. One of them just came to him and he swept it into the net first time.

10:16And the other one was a flick on from a long throw. Reacted first, swept the ball underneath the onrushing Lincoln keeper. Two really good finishes. He looks like a kind of modern striker who's big, doesn't mind the physical side, and he can do the lot as well. I should say as well, a special shout out for Christoph Clara, a player I always hype in the championship. Gregor do you want to know how many Lincoln players he beat in the air to flick on that ball from a throw in for Prisks second goal Don't sound bitter Tom but go for it Five, five and he didn't even jump, he didn't even jump The art of a flicked header Christoph Clara, a brilliant performance from him and a deserved win from Birmingham City Go on

10:52Gregor Robertson: And then there's 3-0 up against Millwall inside 29 minutes on Tuesday night You didn't mention Alex Cochran's goal as well and he scored another beauty in this game get goals from everywhere, goals from the left back that scored three or more goals in four of their last five games. Got the best defence, conceded the fewest goals in the league. Yeah, they are really, really rolling along nicely. And you're right. I mean, he's been a focal point for the team. Don't think he played in the Millwall game. Max Bird came in and scored. And Miller as well. I mean, even watching the extended highlights of the game against Lincoln, Miller, there was one run down the left when I think that was in the build-up to a goal or a really good chance.

11:32Gregor Robertson: No, a really good chance. Yeah, they should have pulled it back to a teammate who should have scored. Lincoln player cleared it off the line. But the other thing about Miller, you can tell as per our conversation last week, he's playing in like first or second gear. That run was one of those where he'd been kind of slaloming around the pitch and then he thought, all right, fine, I'll show you how good I am. Serious, serious talent in that Birmingham City squad. We should mention Middlesbrough, still top of the table, too clear of Birmingham. Will Langshere at it again at the weekend and this time he's added a screamer to his roster.

12:04Gregor, a brilliant finish in a win against Charlton. Goal number 15 of the season from 16 games in all comps. Seven in his last five did that before we even ticked into November. 21 years old. Very exciting times for him. Middlesbrough faced Wrexham tonight, Wednesday night. As I mentioned there, though, running through that top eight in the table, we wanted to come back and talk about Stoke City in third. absolutely fascinating an example of what I mentioned earlier about how teams can yo-yo up and down this table with a good little run three wins and a draw in their last four 2-0 winners at home against Preston on Saturday followed by a 2-1 win at Blackburn on Tuesday night an absolutely bonkers long-range strike from Jack McGlynn in this one a cross?

12:50Surely a cross? You think a shot?

12:53Gregor Robertson: Absolutely I'm going to listen to the manager's comments afterwards Tony Mowbray said I've been warning them all week that McGlynn's got a wand of a left foot. You've got to cover the goal. Oh, I see. It's a left footer. That's why it must be a shot, not a drop. I see. Even Mark Robbins said he was sitting on the sidelines thinking, I see the gap. I can see the gap. Please shoot. I can't shoot. Shoot. Obviously, I can't shoot. Shoot. But if there's anyone on the pitch who can do it, it's him. And he's right. He's had a great impact since he arrived in the summer. kind of one of their like you know they had a bit of a late flurry in the transfer market and as we referenced before sold their kind of star man and Sorba Thomas changed formation but all those things coming together just like created some kind of alchemy and he's been brilliant, came from Houston Dynamo he's only 23, he's got 4 goals I think already this season, a couple of assists he scored against Preston as well, he put in the assist for Ben Wilmot's header against Preston as well with a brilliant cross with that wand of a left foot.

13:56Gregor Robertson: Yeah, he's been a big, big part of their kind of resurgence. And look, they were a bit lucky in this game against Blackburn. We have to say that the second goal was calamitous from Blackburn Rovers' perspective, like an absolute shambles. And then Good Johnson pulled one back in 87th minute and then scored a perfectly good equaliser. Was this a pound in the kitty? Yeah, definitely. Could be a pound in the jar, yeah. I mean, I think he saw a foul on Wilmot, the Stoke defender. It wasn't a foul. So that was a bit of a travesty. But look, having said all that, four wins in a row away as well. The one thing I would say is like Stoke, I think, I'm going to say this about a few of the teams we're talking about this week are on a good run.

14:48Gregor Robertson: I think they've had quite a favourable start to the season. In terms of the fixtures. Blackburn are on a good run. Preston obviously aren't. Drew Bristol City before that. But you think of their start of the season too. They lost the Wolves in opening day. And that was when it 4-1. And that looked like Robbins was already under pressure. Beat Norwich 1-0. Norwich have only just turned things around. Beat Charlton 4-0. Charlton are having a nightmare. Drew the Cardiff. Watford they beat who are having a nightmare. Yeah, Sheffield United have only just started to turn around to beat them, Bolton, Burrows, their only defeat really in this recent run and they beat Derby.

15:27Gregor Robertson: So I feel like they've had quite a favourable run of games. If you look at the kind of data as well, they're expected to go, the difference is minus 6.6. Like they rank 23rd in the league for touches in the opposition box. They're running a little bit hot and people like McGlenn the score and won their goals which he's done a few times this season are helping but yeah stoke won't care like mar robbins i think has even sort of discussed this he i think he recognizes that running a little bit hot but the way stoke the way stoke seasons have been unfolding in in the last few years they will not care cliches galore you can only beat what's in front of you gregor robertson of course but yes i think i maybe agree you look at that table and you start to think well maybe we've got a decent sense of things now after 13 and 14 games where would I be putting Stoke if I was predicting the end of the season I think I'd maybe have them in that ninth to twelfth bracket just outside the playoffs competing all the way to the end but I'm not quite sure I see them I think they could make the playoffs you think I'm not I'm not fully convinced but go on because I'm going to come on to a team who I think could kick them out I think you're right I think there's a bracket of teams who who come the end of the season if they're in that that kind of conversation in mid-table to make the playoffs, I think I would put them in as one of them.

16:46Gregor Robertson: They're not a team that are going to, I don't think they're going to sustain this and be competing for automatics or like an absolute shoe uncertainty for the playoffs. But the way that the league table is being thrown wide open, they're definitely going to be in the mix. Yeah, another team that maybe falls into that category to link nicely, Sheffield United up to ninth. We'd mentioned them earlier in the season struggling down the bottom of the table they're unbeaten in four three wins including two one nils and then three two win at Preston this week with a sidey peck hat-trick the first of his career I think I saw a stat that he'd never scored more than one in a game so a brilliant performance from him your old manager Gregor Chris Wilder finding a way to win but maybe another example of a team slightly distorted from where they are in the table in terms of their performances I should add as well Stoke have got high-flying Portsmouth and Birmingham to come to test that theory as to how good they are.

17:39Sheffield United have got Charlton and Watford, two potentially very winnable games, so they could be charging into the playoffs themselves.

17:46Gregor Robertson: Yeah, look, there's been a big transformation since the last international break. But again, as I say, they've beaten Bristol City, who were on a really bad run at that moment. They drew with Derby, which, you know, is the only team who haven't beaten Derby recently. We're going to come on to talk about them. Beating Wrexham, who were on a bad run. and Preston who are bottom of the table. Having said all that, I think Chris Willis doing a brilliant job in really testing circumstances. It's easy to forget because they're recently in the Premier League or have recently been in the Premier League twice and the stature of the club has been elevated a bit.

18:28Gregor Robertson: They're expected to be one of the teams who are challenging and competing for promotion. they've had a big ownership row between the former and current owners the summer they lost Gus Hamer Andre Brooks, Callum O 'Hare they weren't allowed to invest any of that money in terms of recruitment and Wilder as he often does just turns to experienced pros and I think it's shown up really well they've got some youngsters like Oli Arblaster who's come back to fitness and it's most welcomed City Peck scored a first half hat-trick at Preston in midweek. Like three very different goals. And City Peck's a great player as well.

19:15Gregor Robertson: The first was a cross. Just snuck in at the back post. I wasn't going to jump in but that definitely was a cross. That was definitely a cross, yeah. The second, they went through and the keeper's coming rushing out and he takes it past the goalkeeper but everyone got a chance to recover and you think he's waited too long but he found this space and then curled it in the top corner. That was a beauty. And her third was a back post tapping. And he's not someone who's renowned for getting that many goals. So that was a great moment for him. But yeah, I think if Sheffield United can be in that group, that bunch in mid-table and in position to make a run for the playoffs towards the end of the season, I think that would be success, given the whole context, given the cloud over Bramall Lane, at various points in terms of the argument between the current and former owners, like dispute over money, and just the idea now that Sheffield United, after Prince Abdullah was finally moved on, they seem to have landed with another owner that's highly questionable in the way they're running the club.

20:24Gregor Robertson: So I think Chris Wilder, given all of that, is doing a very, very good job. Yeah, we'll see whether they can keep it up. As I mentioned, they're two potentially winnable games to come for Sheffield United. Will they barge their way into the top eight? As I already mentioned, Portsmouth in 10th. A fantastic run of form for John Moussino's side. And they kept it going with a late winner against Swansea. A very Portsmouth-esque goal. Ball bouncing in the box and just a finish finding the bottom corner. But they find a way to win. Again, a brilliant run from them. QPR in 11th. Do not fear QPR fans.

20:57You've got Lincoln on Saturday. So there's three points to come for you there. but we wanted to give a quick mention to the team in 12th. Norwich City charging up the table to spare the blushes of Tom Clarke and Gregor Robertson who earlier in the season, in the pre-season preview show, said they'd be in amongst it for promotion contention. Yes, we have to add the caveat that those three wins came against Charlton, Watford and Derby but they've scored 10 goals including a great comeback against Watford at the weekend when they were 2-0 down and 4-0 winners at Derby last night. Gregor starting to look like it's clicking for Clement on his boys.

21:33Gregor Robertson: Yeah, and really crucially, a first clean sheet for 24 games. That's been a long, long time coming. You're right, some of their attacking players are really looking like they're finding form. Paris McGomis scored three in his last three, some great goals too. The goal against Derby, one of those where he's kind of chopped a defender both ways to open up the space and then curl it in the corner. That was a great finish. And he scored a lovely goal against Watford as well at the weekend. Anthony Musaba as well is in the goals. Javon Makama came on and scored an absolute rocket to make it four. So, yes, football is a funny game, isn't it?

22:17Gregor Robertson: I mean, I don't think Norwich supporters knew what on earth had happened to this team from last season to the start of this season. Everything that Philippe Clement turned them into disappeared. Like all the intensity, all the real kind of competitive zeal had just evaporated. And they looked to have found it from somewhere. And he was under pressure. it would seem ludicrous if you think we just said it a few weeks ago where would they turn to next he was the guy who saved them last season but it looks like they've turned a corner and yes they've shot up the table as you say they're already in that bunch of clubs in the mid-table and the playoffs will very much be in their sights after three wins No draws as well 14 games no draws six wins eight defeats as well 27 goals scored which is a lot more than a lot of the teams above them.

23:16I think only Middlesbrough, Southampton and West Ham have scored more, but they've conceded 24, which is by miles and away more than any of the teams above them. So maybe Clement is thinking, right, lads, we've got three on the spin now. Let's get a 1-0 win under our belt. Even a 0-0 draw, maybe, just to kind of settle things down. It'd be interesting to see how Norwich go in the coming weeks, if they can keep that run of form going just below them. Millwall, Blackburn, Bristol City, Bolton Wanderers. complete the kind of mid table pack and then gregor just a brief bit of therapy for me at lincoln city losing against watford last night i made the schlep to vicarage road very nice ground vicarage road i've got to say really enjoyed it a kind of perfect blend of like an old ground that's been tarted up a bit and looks quite nice inside now very very impressive but a dismal dismal performance from lincoln city watford winning this game i am going to put you getting

24:08Gregor Robertson: And a few kind of discoveries this season then in the Championship. In terms of my days out. New stadiums, new visits. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a London run. So Millwall, actually not scary at all. Very nice. All the stewards, very friendly. Few jokes with the fans. Very easy commute. Watford, great ground. Really enjoyed it. And I've got QPR at the weekend, which is the most expensive away ticket I've ever paid QPR. They're charging me£41 for me to watch Lincoln lose 6-0 at QPR. so yeah that'll be interesting it'll be close to the pitch if there's any consolation I don't know I'll want to be close to the pitch with the way we're playing at the moment but I won't get into Lincoln Woe I am going to add another pound into the Novar jar though because Watford's one goal came from a very poorly awarded cut throw in which was definitely a Lincoln throw in everyone could see it it was one of those where the linesman was going I don't really know and then Watford just took the throw in and scored but terrible defending from the Imps I just wanted to give a quick shout out Greg Greg, I see the dedication of some football fans.

25:10Speaking to Simon, a Lincoln fan who drove last night from Poynton, not far from Manchester, down to Watford and back again. He got home at 2am thanks to some roadworks and he'll be driving back again for QPR on Saturday. That is dedication to the cause because I tell you what, I'm considering not going to QPR and I've only got a trip across London. Watford though, they didn't look good, Gregor. I've got to say that's part of a frustration for a Lincoln fan I still think and it was interesting a lot of Watford fans maybe messaging me on social media afterwards saying Tom we both should have lost that one that was a dreadful dreadful game of football but they'll be delighted to get the three points there's a question I want to ask off the back of it more generally about football and managing games as a former pro but let's talk about another team struggling down at the bottom below Lincoln in 17th we've got Cardiff, Wrexham, Watford as I mentioned getting that win Charlton in 21st they're on a terrible run as well just Just outside the relegation places.

26:10Sorry, Burnley in 22nd getting a points, getting a couple of draws to get off and running under their new manager. But Derby County in 23rd place, Gregor. A manager that we have rated and rightly praised, I would say, on this podcast, John Eustace. Still do. Well, that was going to be my question. That was going to be my question. You know, a 4-0 defeat to Norwich. No shame in losing to Norwich, but they lost 4-1 to Millwall as well. They also shipped four at QPR a few weeks ago. That is not what John Eustace does, is it? Concede loads of goals. That is maybe a sign that he's in real trouble.

26:44Gregor Robertson: Yeah, but I think this is another example of a manager whose context is very important. The summer was pretty tumultuous. There was a hugely drawn out and then ultimately failed takeover attempt at the club where he thought everything was going to change. a rich Saudi benefactor potentially and then the plug was pulled at the final minute and their transfer plans lay in tatters they've had an extraordinarily rough injury record and particularly in defence I was reading they put out their 12th different back four in the defeat to Norwich in midweek had to play a teenage debutant Isaac Gordon at right back and then Eustace had to whip him off at half time yes nothing about this run it looks good they've conceded they've shipped four goals in three of the last five games conceded three in the opening 17 minutes against Millwall at the weekend they were 3-0 down before half time against Norwich like they're not giving themselves any chance but Eustace like he's still the same manager he's still he's the guy who arrived 19 months ago to like I mean quite a lot of controversy if you remember he left a team in Blackburn Rovers who were pushing for the playoffs for a team in a relegation battle kept him up, took Derby to within four points of the playoffs last season if the season had gone a bit longer they might well have made it and that was a massive over performance we should say and then all the stuff that happened in the summer kind of torpedoed his plans Sammy Smodic came off injured in this game as well in the injury, they really are being up against it.

28:31Gregor Robertson: The problem is as with any situation, any manager, you get to a point of no return and they are fast approaching it because the fans look for any way of eliciting an upturn and changing the manager is the easiest one but it doesn't matter who the manager is, if you've got seven I think, seven or eight defenders alone out injured and you're relying on kids from the academy in a relegation battle So you're going to be up against it. Yeah, really interesting. I wonder whether it's one of those scenarios in modern football that maybe we see in the Premier League, maybe with a manager such as David Moyes, for example, where you're going to sack John Eustace, but maybe the manager you would have hired to get you out of this mess in this scenario would probably be John Eustace.

29:16So it's a strange, strange scenario potentially for Derby fans, but they have only scored 11 goals as well. The joint fewest alongside Charlton Athletic. I watched the full 90 minutes of them losing 1-0 against West Brom earlier in the season. and it was one of those where it looked like West Brom are playing well, but it looked like Derby could have played for four hours and they wouldn't have scored in that game. So real struggles for John Eustace and Derby down at the bottom of the table. Just wanted to come back to something I wanted to ask you that I had a thought that would hopefully be interesting for listeners rather than my usual Lincoln ramblings.

29:48Managing games at any level of football, but I find particularly in the Championship in terms of game management, controlling the tempo, the atmosphere, but also controlling a referee. because Lincoln are terrible at it. Birmingham were brilliant at it at the weekend. You judge what a referee is going to be like. Of course, we have no VAR in the Football League. Lincoln pick up so many silly fouls, so many silly bookings just because you... And as fans, we're in the stands going, guys, that was obviously going to be given as a foul. That's obviously a yellow card. Do you as players judge a scenario?

30:21Do you try and have a little word after 20 minutes? Are you thinking about that in the game? or as a fan am I naive to think that Lincoln should be folding that into all the millions of things that as players you're thinking about during a game

30:35Gregor Robertson: I think some players think about it I think you have some players who I remember you'd have players who would you know want to know who the referee is well before the game and that would influence because you get to know these guys as well and that would come to influence how you and same with managers managers will say would say before a game get into the ref because they believe he's easily influenced. They kind of almost know their personalities and the way they manage the game. So there is undoubtedly some of that. As to how you kind of manage it in a game, I don't know. Again, I think it's just, there's usually, there's often, if you think there's a team like Birmingham who are good at it, I bet there's more than maybe one or two players who are good at it.

31:19Gregor Robertson: Yeah. Clara, for example, is an absolute genius of it. You know, you can watch him when he wins a foul, oh, yeah, thanks, ref, cheers, little pat on the back. Like, oh, ref, come on. It's very measured, though. It's not shouty. It's not aggressive. Lincoln players are very aggressive with the referee. And you're thinking, that's not going to help. That's not going to win. He's not going to want to be on your side if you're behaving like that. So it's that in-game thing that I'm fascinated by. Yeah. I mean, I wrote a piece for the paper this week about the Liverpool issue, about the shirt pool and the Alexander-Isak one.

31:54Gregor Robertson: And I referenced in that, there was a brilliant RefCam video released from El Clasico. Yeah. And so many things were extraordinary in that video. Like the speed of the game, first of all, the skill, everything, this idea that you think, my God, how does a referee make any decision in real time? Then also, how often you saw Bernardo Silva, for example, coming up and having a chat with a referee. Another master of it, Bernardo Silva. absolute master that's why he got away sometimes it's a little bit kind of like there's a little complaint hidden beneath the sort of politeness of it all you know what I mean it's also kind of a running sort of conversation through the game exactly it's often midfielders too because they're closer to the closer to the referee a lot of the time so yes it's they wouldn't do it if it didn't work it won't work with every referee again a referee's personality is the is an important factor in this but if if a player believes that a referee is is is like it's possible to influence them then they will do so um and you know when you build those those little bits up over the course of a game then it's possible you might just gain a fractional advantage that helps you win the game did you leave your teammates to it then being a left back yeah we've had this conversation a few times over the years in the podcast and i always like I always say that I was never even someone who really complained too much.

33:24Gregor Robertson: It would have to be something so bad for me to really have a pop at the referee or complain because I was always thinking, get back in position, get your head ready for the restart. That's a defender's instinct. But in turn, maybe that then helped because you weren't booked or sent off loads in your career. That maybe in turn helps because then as a referee, you're like, well, fair enough, that Robertson lad just keeps himself to himself, doesn't moan too much. I'll let him off another foul when that winger skips past him again maybe you're doing yourself a favour with that just by shutting up maybe, maybe I don't know, I think most things are fairly clear cut or referees will come to their own decision regardless but if there's a kind of a running narrative throughout the game then possibly it will influence the referee I think probably Lincoln might have some bigger problems than that Tom.

34:19They've got a lot of problems I'm telling you. If they keep playing like that towards the end of the season then we are in serious trouble. One brief bit of physical exertion that was impressive Gregor. Do you want to know how long it says Google Maps takes to walk from Vicarage Road back to the train station I needed? 26 minutes. Do you want to know how quick I ran it in? 12. 12! Which for a dad of a 7 month old when I've not run in about 2 years was pretty impressive. So yeah at least I got back early after a dismal display from the not-so-mighty imps. We'll wrap it up there for the championship and take a quick break, but loads still to come in the second half of the show as we dish out our weekly awards in League One and League Two.

34:58We'll be back in a second.

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37:06welcome back to the game football podcast from the times and sunday times this is our football league extra show every week with me tom clark and the former football league defender gregor robertson we're moving in to league one and league two now let's move into the third tier and dish out some of our weekly awards gregor do you know what i'm gonna go first before you do because I think you've probably got the standout win, a significant win for two teams that we've mentioned. But I wanted to give a quick shout out to Leighton Orient, 3-0 winners against high-flying Cambridge after two defeats back in form.

37:38Jase Khabia, a player that we like on this show in the goals. MK Don's third win in a row. Again, maybe the kind of League One version of Norwich, helping not make me look completely stupid for suggesting that they might be OK in League One this season. They beat Doncaster 6-1 at the weekend, which followed a 4-1 win against Bromley. A brilliant win for MK Dons. They're my two shouts for the win or the game of the weekend, Gregor, but I think you got the most significant one. What was your pick?

38:11Gregor Robertson: It's got to be Huddersfield Town's 3-0 win at Bradford City in a local derby against a team who had, I think, 13 clean sheets from their 18 games this season. So a big statement win. and top of the league so like Darren Seely Sanchez Fernandes in particular is just he's he's got to be up there with the siren of the season in any division he's so good yeah brought him over from from the Netherlands and like we said we said on the opening weekend didn't we and he pulled out the gold mask and he scored an absolute world wow this is a player and he's got I think he's got seven goals and six assists every every week even in the the one all draw with Luton in midweek it was him who who teed up Taylor for the for a emphatic volley to score equaliser he's just he's at the heart of everything that they do so tricky and so quick and and clever so yeah he was involved in in heavily involved in this in this game and yeah emphatic win and I believe your goal is going to is going to come from this this very match Yeah, well, Taylor in the goals as well in that game, Sanchez Fernandes.

39:27But I wanted to pick out my goal for you to go and watch Joe Lowe, the Huddersfield defender. Can we call it an overhead kick? Is it an overhead kick if you're from a standing position? I think so. A ball bouncing. It made me think of you talking about high boots and how it is annoying sometimes when, if all a player can do is to hit the ball at a height, then it's not necessarily dangerous. He's probably helped by the fact that he terrified any Bradford defender who might have thought about sticking ahead on it. but it's a brilliant brilliant finish from the defender to open the scoring and what followed was maybe my favourite bit one of the worst knee slide celebrations I think I've ever seen really neat you could tell a player who's maybe not used to scoring goals went for the old knee slide and absolutely stacked it but a brilliant finish to get Huddersfield off and running in that game they followed that up of course with a draw against Luton in the week Taylor in the goals again rare case of Tom Clark maybe being right in prediction for a player having a good season Joe Taylor doing really well for Huddersfield.

40:23Gregor, your goal for the listeners to go and check out then.

40:26Gregor Robertson: Cal Roberts for Notts County in the 2-0 win against Mansfield Town, another derby. This was just an absolute belter. Left, wand of a left foot, alert, claxon. But I kind of, one of those where the ball stays still and like dips and swings into the top corner, kind of up and down, almost like one of those knuckleball free kicks that Ronaldo used to hit. It was a great strike. I think it's his first goal since August and Notts County don't historically kind of tend to win this derby so it was an important goal to get them off the mark and a beauty at that Yeah, my moment of the weekend kind of encompassing a couple of different things I'm going to go for Gerry Yates' equaliser for Blackpool at Sheffield Wednesday on Sunday not a great goal not necessarily something that you should go and rush to check out and definitely not a goal that Sheffield Wednesday goalkeeper Ashley Maynard Brewer will want to watch again, allowing it to squirm underneath him, but mainly just to give a shout out to Dave Chaloner.

41:25Gregor, probably alongside Scott Parker for most obvious managerial appointment of the season. You flagged it last week on the show in line, almost certainly to get the Sheffield Wednesday job, as he did, however, upsetting Martin Samuel by being in the stands for this one rather than in the dugout. We will see if he can get off and running in the coming weeks. Gregor, to wrap us up in League One, your moment of the last week?

41:48Gregor Robertson: This might be an odd one, but there's a very kind of boring, goalless draw between Wigan and Manfield in midweek. And a moment that summed up the match. I mean, if you watch this extend highlights of it, some of the finishing was so, so bad. But Wigan broke away in the first half and the ball's cut back to Brad Burrows. And he shot and it was like maybe from 12 yards. It was going in absolutely. And Scott Hogan, his teammate, ran across the path of the ball and it just smacked him on the bum. And they're both just standing there looking at each other like, well, come on, man. It was like, I don't know.

42:25Gregor Robertson: I don't know. I don't know if it was like a selfish striker's instinct for Hogan to try and like make that run across. There was no need for him to do it when his teammate was shooting. And it's just like one of those hilarious moments where the two players were looking at each other on the pitch going, oh my God, how did that happen? So anyway, some very bad finishing that you should not go and check out in Wiggins' goal with Joel Mansfield. We are heading towards pantomime season, Gregor. I feel like that moment you described quite well there could have done with... Yes. ...in the background.

42:56Just before we move on, Aaron Collins, the MK'd on strike, will be screaming into his AirPods at the fact that I didn't mention the fact that in their 6-1 win, he scored four goals. Four. Four goals. Brilliant performance from Aaron Collins. Let's move into League Two. Gregor, I'll let you take us away with your win or game of the weekend.

43:16Gregor Robertson: another klaxon former club klaxon here at Grimsby Town it's got to be 5-2-1 against York City you don't need the listeners are used to it now mate it's fine it's fine they know what's coming Chesterfield Crewe Grimsby we know we know you've got to get it in you don't need to preface it anymore it's fine well look Dave Artel the pressure was ramping up a little bit they were on an awful run beat Gillingham 4-1 away last week and then there were 2-1 down at home to York City in this game and then just really turned a screw and ran away 5-2 winners, it was a brilliant some great goals as well in this and that lifts them up to 6th, I mean we think that the championship's tight like, lead 2 is ridiculous what have we got, Walsaw in the 3rd automatic place on 22 points Swindon, Swindon we were in Holloway with like very close to being sacked not so long ago we thought it was you know the pressure was really getting to him with some of his comments they're 13th on 19 points so they're 3 points off the automatics in 13th place and it's like this is not it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone who follows these leagues you know religiously but it's just extraordinary how quickly you can rise up the table with a couple of positive results Yeah absolutely I was going to pick out two teams for my wins of the weekend I always think as a fan of a team that is in the lower leagues and has been further down the pyramid.

44:45One of my little pet peeves is when you have a massive, massive moment in the cup and then don't follow it up in the league. Fleetwood Town obviously getting a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant moment. Maybe the greatest moment in their history beating Premier League champions Arsenal. Then they're at home again. Think of the young fans who might have gone for the first time having watched them on telly and then they lose 1-0 at home to Bristol Rovers. But no, 3-1 winners at home. keeping the vibes going. Brilliant stuff for Fleetwood Town, but I'm probably going to pick out Crawley's 1-0 win at Oldham.

45:19Crawley, who we mentioned, has sacked Colin Kazim Richards. Recently, of course, getting a much-needed win, but they needed to be facing nine men of Oldham. Two red cards in the first half for Oldham, 14 minutes and 30 minutes, down to nine men for an hour. Pretty controversial decisions in this one, Gregor. I don't know if you've seen them as a former player.

45:38Gregor Robertson: The second one is the very circumstance you pointed out. earlier about a high boot and like the player came from his blind side too so he's trying to kick the ball in the air and the opponent comes on his and he like sprints in you know past his shoulder and heads the ball first and he clips his head and and he's sent off I mean it was just a foul yeah that's bizarre that's a definite pet peeve of mine but yes not good for Oldham no not good for Oldham but a good win for Crawley I'm going to go first on my goal that you should check out. You touched on it there in Grimsby's 5-2 win against York.

46:17Probably both goals from the Hunt boys for York, but I'm going to pick out the first one. Alex Hunt, an absolute pearler, daisy cutter from the edge of the box. I don't know how it goes through that many players and doesn't hit one of them, but into the bottom corner to equalise for York, but it was completely pointless because they lost 5-2, but still a very nice goal. Gregor, the one you think that listeners should go and check out if they can?

46:40Gregor Robertson: I really liked Courtney Clark's third goal for Walsall against Colchester in their 3-1 win it was really late on I think it was like the 96th minute and Dallas runs clear it looks like he's going to score he hits a shot it ricochets back off the goalkeeper and it's bouncing and the way Courtney Clark just really really delicately on a kind of half volley lifted it up over the goalkeepers retreating and retreating defenders and it clipped down the side of the crossbar and went in. It was such a delicate finish. It was really, really nice. And Walsall, as I say, up to third after a bit of a wobble.

47:24Gregor Robertson: But they're still very much in the hunt for the automatics. Yeah, don't mention Walsall wobbles unless we absolutely have to. You know the rules on the EFL Extra Show. Gregor, wrap us up with your moment in the League Two calendar for the last week. Well you've already spoken about some sending offs but I've got to go with with Rotherham United's extraordinary game against Swindon Jilly B 'Abi was sent off in the fourth minute for like just completely poleaxing an opponent it's kind of off the ball I think the ball was breaking loose like near the touchline and they were both running to he kind of went out of his way he kind of instead of running directly for the ball he went out of his way to just completely forearm smash opponent and then Dominic Ayorfer was sent off as well and then Alex Bruce the manager was sent to the stands so it was an absolutely chaotic game from Rotherham's perspective but there's not many it's not that often you see a sending off as early as the fourth minute can you think of any?

48:26The Lincoln this season Tom Hamer 2 minutes and 45 seconds for a scissor tackle red card but yes so I mean I didn't want to bring it back up again but again as a Lincoln fan it's almost nice to mention these two games to see two teams also losing their heads partly fairly and partly unfairly in Oldham and Rotherham both getting red cards but yeah a disastrous start I feel for any Rotherham fan at that game you're already on the back foot and knowing that you're in for a tough 90 minutes my moment comes from that game as well Gregor because of all the chaos on the Rotherham side of things Swindon getting the win 2-1 thanks as well to Ian Holloway their manager loaning Swindon keeper Connor Ripley his flat cap did you see this bright sunshine Ripley had forgotten the old keeper you've got to make sure you've got a cap trots over to the touchline and says boss can I have your flat cap so then he was in goal with Ian Holloway's flat cap further infiltration of the Peaky Blinders look that is permeating football up and down the pyramid but a much needed win for Swindon we will leave it there thank you very much to Gregor Robertson as always for his analysis and insights on matters in the Football League.

49:36If you've got questions for Gregor, if you want to raise a point with me about a team or player that you've seen so far this season, do get in touch with me, tom.clarkatthetimes.co.uk. We'll be back next week, and we'll be back with the regular show on Thursday. We'll see you then.

49:59Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, email, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work, around the work, and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle slash workspace with Gemini. That's G-O-O dot G-L-E slash workspace with Gemini.

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