Chelsea win; Liverpool struggle and how good is Moises Caicedo?

0:28Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast. admitting he's already under pressure. Wins for Arsenal, Aston Villa, Man City and Newcastle. We'll discuss why we love Bournemouth and Jack Grealish and find out who is the best first-time finisher in the top flight. Hint, it's not Erling Haaland. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today we have the football reporters Pete Rutzler and Tom Alnut and the former footballer back answering the questions instead of asking them. Gregor Robertson is here as usual. All the bloody lads today. This is nice. Good to have you back, Tom. Thanks Gregor That's really really nice Of you to say It's Sincere Sounded complete bollocks But never mind I've obviously been on holiday Gregor how did we get on At the British Podcast Awards The big night Your big night Yeah we didn't win We didn't win But we did We did get a game branded cushion Am I right We did yeah Which is now custody Of the Robertson household Did we make that No one's ever seen that Were we given that We were given that I believe there's like a cushion We didn't just make one And bring one There's a strange wall With every single podcast nominated with this branded cushion pinned to the wall.

1:30So you have to sort of look along through these hundreds of cushions. So did you nick the cushion or were you given it? No, no, you're told to take it. You're told to take it, okay. Everyone got a cushion. No, no, it's mine. But every podcast got a cushion. There wasn't really an award. Okay, fair enough. We'll take it then. Yeah, absolutely. It's got something to start on, but we go again. Let's get into the analysis and show why we're worthy for winning it next year. And there's loads and loads to talk about. It's a bit of a sprawling weekend, but I think we have to start with the big game Chelsea v Liverpool on Saturday evening Pete you were there it's the question I kind of like to tee us off 2-1 to Chelsea with that last minute goal was that a fair result?

2:07Was 2-1 coming away from that thinking that's a fair result? I think so I mean either team could have won it in the final 10 minutes it was quite refreshing actually because both coaches and the way they made their changes obviously Slott brought on Gravenberch and put him at centre back and that changed the way they built up and I think part of why it was quite a good evening for Enzo Maresca was that at a moment where he's been criticised before for being quite cautious he's gone I've lost two centre-backs to injury playing Rhys James at centre-back let's just go for it, throw on Esteval throw on Mark Gew throw on Jamie Gittins, the triple sub and obviously Esteval went on and won the game but because it was so end-to-end I think neither could easily have nicked it but obviously a big, big win for Maresca and Chelsea and not so much for Slott in the third defeating Niro.

2:54We'll come down to Liverpool in just a second because I feel like that's the kind of obvious place to go but Chelsea, as you say, a huge moment for Maresca, steaming down the touchline and then sent off but I thought that was, you know, kind of not the Maresca that we've seen and as you just touched on there, a bit cautious obviously very guarded often in his press conferences. Is this a bit more fire in his belly? Has he kind of been worked up by this kind of indifferent start to the season? Yeah, maybe I was saying to Gregor before the pod that I thought he wasn't particularly quick the way he was sort of running down.

3:20I mean, there was some pace but it wasn't you know it wasn't like Marine or Old Trafford Football podcast reeks a new level of criticism where a manager streams down the touchline knowing he's probably going to get sent off piles in with the fans piles in with his players and the reporter is like not very quick is he? Not very quick honestly No but I think he has had those moments with the fans you know I think thinking back to last season and almost you know cryptically criticising the atmosphere in games the tension that would sometimes seep around Stamford Bridge and affect the way the team were playing.

3:54That was quite evident. And I think it's games like this, moments like that, where you can rebuild some kind of relationship with them. He has actually done that before. He did it in America after the Benfica game in Charlotte, which was delayed for three hours. Christopher and Kunku scored a late goal and he surged down the touchline there. Obviously, it wasn't the same and there wasn't as many people there to see it. But I do think he needs it was interesting because obviously he was sent off and then he didn't do the post-match media and it just it felt like well this is a great moment to just talk about that just talk about that connection Silly rule Yeah that was I think that was a shame for him but you could see it in the game you know even as he was getting sent off and he was going up to the crowd as he was walking down the tunnel because where we sit we're so close to it we can see that so yeah that was important for him just the general feel at Stamford Bridge as well because I mean he did a piece a week and a half ago two weeks ago basically just saying it felt a bit uneasy the start to the season you've got this club World Cup shadow performances hadn't been good I mean they beat West Ham 5-1 but it was West Ham and they were pants and it doesn't really count iffy against Fulham iffy against Palace and it just was sort of teetering a bit injuries taking hold and moments like that in a game like that where you've shown that you've joined I will go for this I will be front for the conversation about him being control wanting control and possession and those kind of things it's like thriving in such a thrilling pulsating game is one thing but then also having the late winner having that moment run down the touchline it's quite a big moment and should be a little bit of a reset it was a big week very big week I was at the Brighton game which kind of after a brilliant first half you know they kind of collapsed after the red card the Porto game on Tuesday as well it was like Benfica sorry Benfica it was kind of overshadowed by Mourinho's return it was a pretty like although there was control there was no real cut on edge and they could have conceded towards the end so that was pretty unconvincing but there have been like pretty there have been a few landmark performances now like in terms of these big games where he also you also get the feeling that he's sort of out thinking the opposition and the you know Premier League title winning manager it was like the way the overloads in the sides yeah it's true the way they were pressing particularly midfield put Malagusto in midfield and he's not done that before but he was super aggressive in the way they were pressing there was a real intensity to it and Liverpool made a lot of mistakes but a lot of it was enforced as well.

6:20I like him. I like Resca. I don't like the Chelsea project. I think that's been made quite clear on numerous occasions. You've not mentioned it, but yeah. He came in and there was this sort of idea that he was a bit of a yes man. I think he's actually good value in press conferences. You go there and you'll hear what he thinks and he's often quite bold and he'll call out players and he'll say he needs to do more. And yeah, that would have been a great moment to hear from him and hear what he felt that moment meant for him and this Chelsea team. They've been here before. I still think they'll be undermined by the churn and the lack of leadership.

6:57But it was a big performance. Well, he's good in these games, I think, Mureska. I think we talk about him as a tactician and when it comes to the small tactical details in the big matches, I think he does deliver. I think almost more the question mark is when Chelsea are playing against the kind of teams you'd expect them to beat, can they go out there and express themselves and be a more watchable team with a bit more freedom. He's definitely one of those managers who likes to pull players around like chess pieces and maybe that's something he has to add. I thought Caicedo was fantastic in this game and not just the goal but his overall performance.

7:31I think when Caicedo joined Chelsea I think everyone thought this guy has got so much talent and clearly when they're playing against Liverpool and Liverpool wanted to sign him and everyone wanted to sign him and Arsenal were there. And Chelsea got him and it's taken a while I think. We've seen it in spurts but there's always been that slight question mark about him and Enzo and whether they go together and whether actually they sort of bring the best out of each other. But I think more and more we're seeing with Caicedo now that he can do everything, you know, and that's what they used to say at Brighton, that he was sort of classified as this kind of defence midfielder, this destroyer, but actually he could pass, he could score, he can run with it, he can dictate games, you know, almost like a sort of modern kind of box-to-box midfielder, if you like.

8:09And I think we're seeing that more and more. Like Declan Rice? I mean, are we as bold to say that? I think he's better than Declan Rice. I think he's a more complete player than Rice I think right now I think Caicedo I think there's an argument to say he's the best midfielder in the league in terms of the central midfield position I think he's got everything He's the best midfielder in the world actually particularly in that defensive aspect of the game one of the things that's so interesting with him he's incredibly robust even when you come in after international breaks particularly players that go to South America there's never any lag with him the amount of times there's been in games where he's gone down with where you think that looks like a nasty knock that looks quite bad I think he might be in a bit of trouble backup plays his consistency his strength his physicality and the goals have been really interesting he scored three this season it's three and six I think that's as many as he'd scored for Chelsea in the previous two seasons it's almost like he's starting to add that to his game just be encouraged to do it like Tom was saying just have more licence to do it I think he's realising that this could be his team you know that actually he's not just a young player who's come in and we want you to gradually work your way in I think he's realising I can be the player in this team who runs the whole show.

9:14Yeah, really interesting, positive signs for Chelsea then. Liverpool, talking about tactical changes and Enzo Maresco getting it right, Liverpool maybe getting it wrong? I mean, I'm fascinated by what's happened over the last couple of weeks. Gregor Sobosleip appearing at right back and things, you know, Verts on the bench. Pete, we'll start with you because you were there. Did it feel like a Liverpool team that are really starting to pull it apart before putting it back together again? I think, yeah, you did get that sense Arna Slott's trying to make all of these parts fit together and it's not quite happening yet.

9:47With this game, he reverted back to the midfield that won them the Premier League. Basically, McAllister, Gravenbirch, Soboslai. Soboslai back in the middle. As you said, he'd been playing at right back. Played at right back in midweek against Galatasaray and Baris Yilmaz on that left. He's a very quick player, caused him a lot of trouble. But it's clear that it's not just that. You've also got, I think, what's actually been quite interesting because of those shuffles at right back, there's a lot more conversation about how much of a hole Trent Alexander-Arnold is leaving. And that's in more than one way.

10:21There's the defensive side of things, that space on the right-hand side working with Salah. Salah's not a player that really has ever really tracked back. How do they solve that? But then the creative thing, which is throwing Florian Verts in, a completely different profile of midfielder to the other three, trying to get up to speed quickly with the Premier League and its intensity and just not quite making it fit. I went to Istanbul and then obviously saw the game at the weekend. It's quite clear that it's not just the midfield, it's not just right back, it's not just about centre-back. It's the front line as well and just learning how to play off the ball.

11:00I don't think Alexander Isak looks fit yet or at least is not certainly pressing in the way that we've been used to seeing Liverpool do from their front line. I mean, they lost Luis Diaz, and I think that's never talked about, but he was fantastic off the ball for them in terms of his work rate. You've got Salah in this weird position now where he's not producing as many goals, which would always offset the fact they didn't do that much going back the other way. There's loads of different factors that are throwing into it. Just on the full-backs thing, Gregor, and the idea of Liverpool missing Trent Alexander-Arnold, I mean obviously a world world class player in lots of respects so yes obviously they're going to miss him but maybe missing him in ways that perhaps we didn't expect Yeah I mean I think probably because of familiarity you know he would we questioned him defensively like for a long time so you can't just say that you know that's I don't think they're missing him in that respect but they knew how to sort of compensate for Trent Alexander-Arnold Gennady would step over a bit on the right hand side they would almost be a bit more lopsided Andy Robertson would sit in they don't have Andy Robertson in the team Kierkegaard isn't really Kanati's having a nightmare like awful awful start to the season Alexis McAllister the thing that we praised their midfield about last season was balance like it kind of came from nowhere Gravenberts was put into like a sort of number six slash eight role and they all just complimented each other brilliantly now that they don't look like they have the same protection either so there's multiple issues.

12:31Full-backs, Kanati having a nightmare, protection's not there in the way it once was and they're probably not really pressing. They just look wide open. The number of times that they're played through and players are bearing down on Kanati or on Van Dijk and they're retreating and having to put out flyers. It says a lot that in 11 games they've conceded two goals on six occasions. That's not really... Only two clean sheets as well. I think it took them to October to do that once last season and obviously as we know all the late goals we've had this conversation at the start of the season is this the sign of a great team of champions and finding a way to win?

13:11Not sure they've scored they've scored 8 goals in the 83rd minute or later in 11 games But you said either team could have won it at the end Pete and Liverpool looked better in the second half right and I mean as much as Virts has been criticised came on lovely little flick for Salah nearly scored Yeah no Virts came on and had an immediate impact I thought and that was a lovely pass it should have been an assist I mean you got the shot of Salah just apologising to him I should have taken the weight off your shoulders there with that but no I thought they were better in the second half certainly more front foot but I think Chelsea were certainly rocked by what happened in their defence and centre back completely through them Rhys James was at centre back and Joel Hatter who can play centre back was brought in as a Cucurera replacement I think Liverpool took momentum from that and the changes helped.

13:59Graven Birch as centre-back was unusual and that speaks to the Canate issue the fact that, I mean, I think Slott said he felt something in his quad but even just considering having Graven Birch in there just to help them play a bit better out from the back I mean, even just making that call underlines just that this really is feeling out what's going to work, trying to make things fit together Do we think then, Gregor, you alluded to it there the question I asked I think two weeks ago, are these late goals, is it a sign of champions or is it a sign of worrying things to come? is three defeats on the trot are we now going oh this is going to be a big transition season for Liverpool or do they just actually need a couple of international breaks a bit more rest recuperation and that by Christmas they'll be firing Tom, Gregor?

14:40I don't think it's going to be a big transition season I still think they'll be competing with Arsenal for the title but fitting Wurtson is going to be problematic I'm not sure he can be that number 10 that's the way that He set out the start of the season to basically have one midfielder less and have a number 10. I don't think it looks like it's working. He might have to play off the left. And like I say, I think Kanati is a massive issue. Really, they don't have many other options either. It will be a bit of a transition, but you can't say after winning the Premier League. There's just been this idea in the last week that he's facing his transition 12 months late.

15:23It doesn't work like that. they won the Premier League last year but why is he trying to change so much I think in the first season we all sort of thought he's been really clever here because actually he's sort of light touch he barely changed anything he signed Chiesa and that was it no ego, no kind of imposing his methods and then season two happens and suddenly the changing, the front line, the defence the goalkeeper, ok by force but right back, midfield, everything's different everything's completely different and I wonder if you look back now the last kind of month where the slot might think just sort of maybe could have eased some of these guys in gradually because suddenly you've got the two fullbacks that we all thought would come in and be right at it straight up you know off the bat you know the question now is whether they should be playing both I mean Frimpong doesn't look like a right back Kürke is to me it looks like you've just signed in from Switzerland or something they've signed it's the twin brother joke isn't it Bournemouth have actually secretly still got Miloš Kürke at the club and they're just going to win they don't need them they've got too fair yeah I mean it's so much upheaval in the team you know and I just think it's natural that you're going I think it is.

16:23It feels like the transition is happening 12 months late. You are more in the camp of it could be a big transition season. I think there's a lot of problems to solve. A lot of problems. I look through the whole team now and it's hard to see a position that looks set. Gregor's right. Every single position you're thinking either not in form, not in the right place, not fit. Question marks all over the place. And not least, and we haven't really mentioned it, but Salah. What's happened to Salah? I was just going to say as well, when you were reeling those off, they won it last season. I was speaking to colleagues on the desk and one of them's a big Liverpool fan, follows them home and away.

16:56And he was like, well, last season we had Salah. And I mean, that's a very simplistic way of saying why they won the league. But last season, Mo Salah was absolutely electric and started brilliantly. Until the last few games. I mean, you know, and we all kind of dismissed the sort of post-title form. But actually, Salah did kind of tail off at the end of the season. And we all sort of thought, well, that was OK. Four goals in 16, I think, for Salah, I think, in the league. But he's kind of continued that into the season. Is it the contract? Is it his age? Is it just, you know, a minor thing? and then you think about the fact that he doesn't have Trent behind him and he has for his entire Liverpool career really and their relationship was like unlike any sort of winger and pullback this is interesting right they've signed Florian Wurtz and in a way you think Wurtz is kind of you think it's the creativity that he's coming in for but the team at Leverkusen was built around him it was built basically had bodies it was almost like someone in the middle and bodyguards around him just get this guy on the ball with space and time Liverpool have been built for Salah like that's a major change to go actually we're going to build around this guy Salah you've got to fit in somewhere but that's just not that's not what's brought the best out of him and at the moment what's happening is you're not getting the best out of any of them and we've not even talked really about Isak who's still not up to speed still not really connecting not really gelling with Salah I think there was a glimmer of that I think in the Atletico game between Isak and Vert so maybe there's and maybe there's a question of okay actually how quickly does Slot go we'll go long term and we'll focus on these or does he go actually let's stick with Salah and just bed the others in but it's like Tom says if this had been a slower introduction then maybe that could have happened later One other player I would mention as well is Luis Diaz the one thing, he was relentless he was brave these games actually often you thought just get him the ball and he'll keep running at the full back he was like I don't know, he's a little warrior and Cody Gakpo is not that I don't think Virts is really either so just slightly different personalities as well and I've said before there's sort of intangibles about not having Andy Robertson in your team and not having Trent because they've been part of such a solid unit for so long.

18:58Now you've got inexperienced players around you instead. So even more pressure and the leadership is on Van Dijk. Big picture, I think. It's great for the league. We all thought Liverpool would win the title, spend£400 million, sign the best player in the division or whatever. These two won the kids up front. it would be a cakewalk and actually isn't football great like you know a month in it's sort of like the whole team seems in a mess you know and everything seems unpredictable and that's great great for the neutrals and great for Arsenal fans or is it great for Arsenal fans because I've got a few pals who are Arsenal fans after this game said well lads can't cock it up now can you or can you an easy win for them at home going top of the table I thought this was an interesting stat Mikel Arteta picked up his 177th win as Arsenal manager in his 300th game only three managers have ever won more of their first 300 matches in charge of a top flight English club.

19:50Pep Guardiola, 219, Jose Mourinho, 196, and Kenny Delglish, 185 at Liverpool. I presented this to my colleagues on the desk this morning and they all went, yeah, but he went in straight at the top, didn't he? Completely easy for him. I mean, the poor guy, honestly. We're in a stage where Michael Arteta might win the title and still not get any credit. But the reason I kind of make that slightly jokey link into Arsenal, if we're heading into the world of, you know, Liverpool might be inconsistent, might win three on a trot and then maybe drop some points. Arsenal, we said it already this season, Greg, and maybe they've got the strongest squad.

20:23Are they better leading or are they better chasing? What do they actually want? What does this Arsenal team want? Mikel Arteta, the big thing that they're always beaten with. They can't get over the line, they can't win a big trophy. Are they better off leading from the front, winning every game 2-0? We're about to find out, I suppose, in a way. We haven't really seen this. This is where they want to be. this is the next step right this is it right you are the front runner now take it away take it away show us what you can do when you're in that position the fixtures look okay coming up yeah they've got we've talked about the depth they've come back they've got Fulham away then Crystal Palace at home then Burnley you know no easy games in this Premier League as Tom's already alluded to but Sunderland and then they've got North London Derby at the end of November all the things that were like you know quickly football moves like a couple of weeks ago were criticisms of Arsenal being like you know I don't know risk averse yeah too scared you know just like these things though suddenly when you look at the chaos around they'll suddenly look like great treats for that that was that late Newcastle win wasn't it that Gabrielle goal just changes that narrative slightly they win in the big games they turn it around Tom you've got your mischievous look on your face I was standing up for Arteta you were that Gregor and Alison were you know really laying the boot in and I was standing up for the guy I was asking the questions that day Alison Rudd sticking the boot in on Mikel Arteta that sounds absolutely shocking I'm sure she'll be back next Monday to do exactly that but I mean do we think they're maybe better off I'm trying to suggest that maybe this team with this squad that we've talked about already and the strength in depth that you know boring boring Arsenal maybe might be the better way of doing it you know win these games at home and try and pick up wins in these games like the Newcastle one they've shown they can do they didn't do it at Liverpool of course are they better leading from the front rather than having the pressure of chasing or you know I can't work I don't think we can know that I mean they've they did lead from the front and that first season they challenged and then fell away and then they ran City very close in Liverpool as well in the season after that so I don't know there are very few question marks when you look at Arsenal's team in contrast the only one still for me is Giochanez and I know we keep speaking about this but you just it may not matter he's a battering ram he goes around and he makes life very difficult for opposition defences and centre-halves and he runs channels and he works hard and he creates space for others around him it may not matter he might score 15 goals and others around him chip in with the same and win the title we all thought he needs to be a game changer maybe he doesn't have to be a game changer he's not Harland is he I don't think he is a game changer I remember we talked about this in the pod in the summer when he came in he's almost like a second choice forward but for these kind of games, these home games which was an issue where you don't have that alternative option where everyone's like you just need someone to throw a cross at, he's that but he's not Haaland, he's not an Eastsac, I don't think he's going to score that level of goal but once Kai Havertz is fit and he's what, a month away I think wouldn't be surprised if he's then favoured because that's the way Arteta has played.

23:33Gregor alluded to it there and a few of my pals who are Arsenal fans say they like his direct running and like running in behind and creating space because so much is made of, you know, the panic is to quick give the ball to Saka and hope that he can score, but then he gets double marked and Arsenal attacks Peter out. It does at least give them a different dimension to their attacking, doesn't it? It does, but even if he doesn't score the goals. It's not like what Pep Guardiola's doing at City and sort of remodelling his team around Haaland in a much more direct way. He's just another option. He's just an alternative that they can throw in.

24:04I mean, I've always thought the number nine thing is a little bit of a red herring at Arsenal. Like, I think it is a thing, but I expect when Habits come back, I think Habits will get a lot of minutes. The two things, I think, in my mind, the two reasons why Arsenal haven't won the league in the last two or three years, one, injuries. I mean, you're talking about the season when Arsenal were ahead that year. They lost Saliba and completely collapsed. If they lose Saliba now, Mosquera comes in, no problem. And, you know, Odegaard got injured against West Ham. Mendy comes on, no problem. The Arsenal fans are not having meltdowns now when their best players get injured.

24:36Saka's been injured. Not really an issue. Maduweke, brilliant. And the other issue was creating chances. I mean, I think the finishing thing is there, but I think also it's creating the quality chances against those low-block teams. And now they have players, Eze is obviously the one we think of, but I think Zubimendi as well, who can come on and change a game. They have much better options off the bench. And I think those two things make Arsenal look like a real proposition this season. Yeah, Arsenal fans get in touch if you're excited or nervous at the prospect of leading from the front this season, tom.clock at thetimes.co.uk.

25:05Into third, Tom Tottenham, your team that you follow for the Times. This has been a good old start for Thomas Frank, hasn't it? Just quietly, a few little dips here and there. Not always the perfect result, but third. Wonderful stuff. Sensible team. Sensible Thomas Frank. Sensible, serious. Pragmatic, of course. Gritty, resilient. All these familiar words. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, Spurs haven't been spectacular. I don't think you should get carried away. The league is very sort of, the points have been very dispersed, and so they are third, but they are not far away from ninth. You know, like it's, I don't think Spurs fans are getting carried away.

25:42Like they've had some dodgy performances. They weren't great away at Bodo. They weren't great against Bournemouth. But the foundation is there. And what I like, I think, about Frank's early weeks is that he has pinpointed, I think, the areas that we all know Spurs were lacking last season, defensively, clearly, set pieces, yes. and, you know, it sounds cliche, but yeah, that resilience, that grittiness, you know, they have had two or three comebacks where they've really dug themselves back into games. And I think, you know, there are question marks still about the kind of creativity, I think, of this team.

26:14And in part, that's due to injuries. Kuczewski, Madison are out. Solanke's been out, you know. So Frank's going to get some of his weapons back. But there hasn't been quite that sort of fluency, I think, in these first few weeks that the Spurs fans would like to see. Frank's view, and I think it's, you know, I think it's a good one, is that that will come. You know, they have the players that the kind of ange basis is there, that this team can score goals. You look at all the attacking metrics last season, they were right up there in the top three, four or five teams in the league. In all the defensive metrics, they were down in the bottom three or four teams in the league.

26:41So that is the area that they need to work on. And you look at them, you know, seven, what is it now, seven games in, you know, and all of those things, clean sheets, resilience is there, set-piece goals is up, set-piece conceded goals right down. You know, we talk about the managers in the league, you know, needing time, Amarim, etc. Frank has made his mark really quickly in my opinion Is that because of him as a person or knowing the league as well because obviously he was with Brentford for such a long time some of those slightly more pragmatic qualities that you've talked about there the things that Ange Postacoglu didn't have come in, adapt to injuries, adapt to circumstance is that really what we're getting at?

27:14I think so An experience of the league He's very on trend isn't he Frank? We're all kind of very into long throws and direct free kicks and kick-offs and I don't know if Brentford, I mean they were, they were leading the way in that I don't know if they were sort of like, you know, the inventors of that. I don't think so, but they were leading the way and everyone's now kind of doing that. I think, you know, there's this idea of Frank as being sort of, you know, very kind of cosy, nice guy you want to go down the pub with on a Friday night. And there is that. But what I've sort of been surprised about in his first few weeks at Spurs is he's tough.

27:42You know, he's really tough. Like sometimes we give him those sort of questions where you say, well, wasn't Kudos great today? You know, and you expect him to kind of go off on one and say, we know what a fantastic player he is. But actually, he doesn't give praise easily. and sometimes he's been quite sort of, he's been quite hard on the players, I think, in these first few weeks. We saw the thing with Bissouma, didn't take him to the Super Cup final when he was late for a meeting. I think he wants to make sure this team is disciplined, you know, and serious. And that is a really strong foundation, I think, for Spurs to go forward.

28:12I thought Spurs at the beginning of the season would be a sort of nailed on top seven team, you know. I'm wondering now whether they could, you know, push into that kind of top five. Gregor, thoughts on that? yeah it's just it's sustainable there have been Spurs for so many years they've threatened and flashes to be that team and then Romero has a head loss and gets sent off and then you're like who comes in for him, Van Bempel, he's hamstring the one thing from this game is you're looking at their forward options as you say when those players come back fit there's a lot now Tell's had a bit of a disappointing time really at Spurs isn't he overall and missed out in the Champions League squad Odebeir's been injured a lot but like they're talented players Javi Siemens as well when he gets up to speed Kouris has been probably the best player of the season so none of these guys were either like there or making an impact last season so when those other players come back suddenly you go this is a squad in forward areas with a bit of strength and depth I still think at the back it's not quite the same and Palinja's been really crucial low level I mean I know it's not an exciting signing but I mean Gregor's right Kudus has been fantastic.

29:21Probably Tottenham's best player. But if you think about the actual most important player this season, I think Pallinho has really brought a steal into the midfield that wasn't there last season. The absolute hipster signing of the summer, wasn't it, Jaupo? No surprises on the game podcast that he's done well. The other game on Saturday, Manchester United winning at home, keeping a clean sheet with new goalkeeper, Senni Lamans. Paul Hurst writing in the game this morning about this promising signs. I enjoyed catching up on social media from this game. A lot of Manchester United fans going, we've got a goalkeeper who can catch the ball.

29:50And just sharing clips of him crossing into the box, which is perhaps a sign of where Manchester United have gone. But I did have this. We get lots of stats from Opto, some of which I've already mentioned on the show. I'll mention more in the second half. This one is a great way of Ruben Amarim looking for something good in his inconsistent time. Became the first Manchester United manager to win his 50th game in charge of the club since Alex Ferguson in November 1987 against Bury. So the 50th game. That is a specific game. Pointless start I've ever heard in my life It's positive signs from Reuben Amorim Gregor, he's got a goalkeeper who could catch and he's the first manager to win his 50th game in charge of the club, no because Man United fans will think we're being silly here but I mean that is a daft thing, but it's a good win, it's a good win, it's a third win in five It's a good win yeah, I mean even though Amorim even like whenever they have good wins now still finds a way of like dragging like the vibes down it's like, it was an adult performance, I was just getting a vibe after the game an adult performance like my god what does that mean he said we had no momentum didn't he he said is there a bit of momentum going to the international break no we have no momentum come on man I don't blame the guy like you know the sort of life and joy sucked out of him but he's won his 50th game in charge he's still got to try and transmit like some degree of positivity erm yeah it was but Laman Laman's starting and keeping a clean sheet as much as you know so much is made of the Manchester United narrative about how players sucked into the vault and how it's always a bit comical.

31:20A goalkeeper being signed, starting, keeping a clean sheet. Psychologically, that's a big thing. It's a massive thing to do at Old Trafford. Straight away, the fans think, actually, you're okay. There's not that immediate angst if you do something that's not actually that bad, but you think, oh my God, he's played a sideways pass that's a bit iffy. So for him as a keeper, that's brilliant. It's good for the defence. The player's talking about that afterwards. Just the difference it can make. Exactly. He was controlled. It felt fine. Please for Mason Martin as well. Yes. I've had an awful time since he's been there but there's a really good player in there and one I think you can fit into the system which is a rarity in this squad Amorim always talks very complimentary about him and so it's good for him to get a goal there you go Man United fans, there was about three minutes there of positivity and Sesko's first goal, four minutes of positivity Ahmad's kind of wing back as well I'm not sure that can work against other teams it showed that when you're playing against a team who's going to come and probably sit deep for large periods of the game.

32:20It kind of makes sense to play a winger, a wing-back. That's a bit as far as I can go. Yeah, first league goal for Benjamin Sesko and a good start for Sainz-Lamond in goal. Positive start for Manchester United and Rubert Amaroum. It's time for a short break. We'll be back with more nonsense stats in the second half of the show and talk about Sunday's games and Bournemouth's brilliance. But a little quiz question to see you through to part two. Who is the best first-time finisher in the Premier League. We'll find out after the break.

33:01Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Pete Rutzler, Gregor Robertson and Tom Allnut with me. Tom, this is not really a true quiz question which Gregor Robertson, you can see, is very upset about because he doesn't get to be like... I mean, I answered it. teachers got it right but this is actually a quiz question from your piece in the Sunday Times about first time finishers so what's the answer to the question the best first time finisher Chris Wood Chris Wood not Merling Haaland tell us about the piece well it was sort of off the fact that Haaland scored those two goals against Monaco which were I mean the first one particularly was you know delightful prodded sort of first time finish second one ahead into the inside the post so we thought well let's look up and see you know where the first time finishing is kind of on the rise and if you kind of look at the stats this season okay it's it's early but first time finishing in in first time goals in the penalty area have been sort of on the decline over the last kind of four five six years right I guess you would you know you would probably think that's probably because you know the Pep Guardiola way is to sort of build up and make sure the chances were a really good one you know the idea now is that there's no snatching at finishes you know if you can play someone else in to have the better chance, then do that.

34:16Don't just shoot in the box wildly when there's players in front of you. But I guess maybe, and I'm slightly sort of reaching here, but maybe as we sort of think about the kind of more direct football, more balls into the box earlier, the Thomas Frank way of lots of crosses and trying to get the ball into that area, maybe that's sort of creating this kind of surge because this season it's been up by 10%. So last year, 64 % of goals were first time this year at 74%, which is the most ever since Opta were collecting data for this stat. So that's in the last 10, 11 years. And in terms of the players who you'd expect, I mean, the kind of keenest first time finishers, Chris Wood, and I think maybe you would immediately think, well, he scores a lot of goals with his head, which is true, but only 13 of his 39 goals since Haaland arrived are with his head.

35:04So he does a lot of first time shots as well. Muniz at Fulham then Strand Larsen at Wolves I won a year at Forest and then Haaland is fifth so you've got players there who I guess you would all kind of say they're sort of penalty box predators in a way what I also thought was interesting from it is that some of the players who are really good first time finishers which I think you would kind of associate with technique with kind of precision in the box are not necessarily the ones who are kind of the keenest ones so for example you look at someone like Gio Pedro like 90, Jaipetra's percentage of goals he's scored with one touch is 90.5%, so really high.

35:41That's the highest of any striker in the Premier League. Richarlison is also right up there. Beto Everton, 83%. So these guys, you would say, if you were kind of coaching them, I'm not, but if you were, you might say, maybe you should take fewer touches around the box because when you do finish first time quickly, you've got a really high percentage of the ball going in, you know? So I don't know, maybe something for them to think about. And I was sort of reminded with this piece about how Ancelotti is a big fan of first-time finishes. In fact, he was so sort of taken by the way Inzaghi played at Juventus back in the 90s that he basically spent most of the rest of his career telling the strikers he coached that, you know, you can score more goals if you take fewer touches around the box.

36:19So he told Vinicius Junior when he went to Real Madrid, he said, you know, you take way too many touches. Like, when the ball comes to you, shoot. When the ball comes to you, shoot. It reduces the chance of a heavy touch. it reduces the chance of the goalkeeper and defenders getting set and Vinicius exploded on Translotti at Real Madrid. I would say not necessarily because all his shots were first time, no, but I think he probably became a much more focused finisher. He tried it with Calvert-Lewin as well at Everton, maybe to slightly less success. He also said, you know, he made him go and watch like 20-minute videos of Inzaghi scoring goals on YouTube.

36:50He did say as well about stay between the goals and all that kind of stuff. Calvert-Lewin was good at Translotti. So I think, you know, there is some merit, I think, in this idea and maybe it does suggest that the trend, I think it sort of plays into that idea that maybe we think the kind of poacher, number nine, finisher, profiler player is maybe on the way back. Interesting. And obviously Erling Haaland, a big part of it, scoring again for Manchester City against Brentford. Gregor, I was... That was not a first day finish. It was, but it was a lovely goal. It was. Lovely goal, lovely touch. But I mean, just in terms of City, I saw this goal go in and was like, oh, okay, here we go.

37:26You know, City, this big, big win. and then ended up hanging on against Brentford. Does this say more about City or more about Brentford and Keith Andrews, who, of course, you interviewed for the weekend? I think Brentford would probably be quite disappointed with the first half. They were a bit kind of passive, and all the things that they weren't against Manchester United, which, you know, they were so direct and in their face, and kind of combative, all those things. None of that, really. And they improved in the second half. But I think it's one of those games, like, Keith Andrews was saying he was kind of quite proud of his team, given how much they came back into it and could have nicked something.

38:01And actually, City would be pleased to have got a clean sheet and to have kind of ground out a gritty 1-0 at Brentford. You saw Halland's interview afterwards, it was great. He was like, you know, he was like, this reminds me of Stoke City and Rory the Lap, just hurling the ball into the box. And he was saying, like, the defender, I think it was Sip Van der Berg, was like, shove me around. And he's like, OK, let's have it. And he's watched his goal back, you know, in the interview. and he's like, that for me, that goal is top. And he's like, he loved it, because it was like, that's what he's all about.

38:33That's what he relishes most, you can see, is that physical battle. And the defender, foolishly, was saying, come on, I'll have a physical battle with you. So, yeah, Brentford have had a good start. And yeah, I interviewed Andrews in the week. Well, you say good start, they had a bad first game where we were all going, oh my God, this is a, you know, post Thomas Frank. but yeah as you say really turned it around and yeah tell us a bit more about meeting Keith Andrews for that interview in the Times on Saturday yeah I think it's just like we have to kind of pan out and acknowledge what he's had to contend with in his first ever job as a manager in the Premier League like not in any you know any league his first ever job is as a Premier League manager and they lost their captain Norgar to Arsenal lost all their goals and their team in Vissa and in Bwemo and you know the former Vissa obviously went on strike because I contended all that as well manager who's been the best in the club's history has moved on, four or five members of the coaching staff he's had to rebuild a lot and he's not working with a squad that's as good and he sort of looked at it and he thought a lot of managers too we've said for so long they kind of go in and they talk about how they want their team to look there was such a contrast between Brentford last week and Manchester United, Ruben Amirim just does not stop going on about his system and his idea and the most interesting stuff I was talking to Andrews about was the fact that he was saying I would never let my philosophy and he actually doesn't like using the word philosophy, he's a bit old school, he's like I would never let that get in the way, you've got to look at the players at your disposal and find a way to hurt the opposition, look at what strengths you have in your squad and he sees we've got quick players, we've got a big striker in Thiago who's like physical presence and he's looking at a team that he's inherited that played in a certain way under Thomas Frank as well so it was like, how can I come in and rip that up?

40:29So is that a good fit then actually for a Brentford team that have made all those changes and maybe a team in transition we keep talking about teams in transition Yeah, and we looked at someone and we think crikey, they've appointed this former set-piece coach who'd been there a year and it presses the Premier League he's going up against Pep at the weekend and this guy's managing his, what, I don't know 10th game or something overall in all comps but it was a continuity appointment and the one thing that, you know, speaking to people at the club and also from speaking with Keith Andrews himself and actually from seeing him work as a pundit is he's a great communicator and he's and actually people in the club and stuff saying he's a leader he was a leader as a team as a player, sorry, he was like captain of Wolves at 2821 captained a few teams he is a leader and I think actually it might prove to be quite a canny appointment Yeah good signs for Brentford with a new manager, a team who've made a managerial change already, we're into an international break Gregor, only a month ago we were getting excited about the return of Ange Postacoglu, well I certainly was anyway but that was because I'm a selfish sports editor who likes good stories and boy is Ange Postacoglu a good story Nottingham Forest fans will not be happy though, Nottingham Forest have lost 6 of their 10 games in all competitions this season, winning 1 and drawing 3 it took them 28 games to lose 6 games last season lots of people were undecided about Ange coming back I was excited about it from a narrative point of view it's been basically the worst that's the biggest, that's the most peak Tom Clark sentence I've ever heard I was excited about it from a narrative point of view it's all about narrative mate, that's what life is all about but Tom, as a man well experienced in Ange Bostokoglu this is about as disastrous as it could have gone isn't it?

42:15what did you expect? Honestly, what did people expect? I thought it'd be brilliant bonkers, but I didn't think they would lose sick. I thought they'd win some, lose some, and I thought it'd be great entertaining fun, but it's not even been entertaining and fun. It's just been defeats. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I think there've been some spells in their games where they've actually looked good, you know, and I've seen Forest fans sort of saying, this is great to watch at times, you know, and we know it is great to watch at times. And to be clear, when I say that, I'm not, I don't, that's not a slight on Ange.

42:45what did they expect in terms of making this appointment in the first few games to happen? Post-transfer window, no pre-season, you're making probably the biggest managerial shift tactically that probably has ever happened in football history from Nuno to Ange, and you're expecting that to happen in real time? Like when there's European games going on in midweek and there's barely any time on the training ground? What did Maranakis think was going to happen? The answer to all those questions is yes, he did expect that, Tom. That's what he expects. Did they expect Forrest to be playing brilliant football would be picking up wins and for this squad that was clearly built for Nuno to work for Ange?

43:18I mean, I don't get it. But Greg is being slightly jokey, but also I think pretty serious that yes, you do. But yes, you need it to happen, don't you? And I mean, that's what's fascinating about Ange Prost-Koglu now. He's already talking about, oh, I know I'm under pressure. I'm going to have to have a chat with Maranakis and like, this is bonkers, isn't it? This is a team that were back in Europe, made a managerial change and now a month after it happened, I've got the guy going, oh yeah, I'm probably under a bit of pressure now I need to have a chat with the owner see what the future is what?

43:47this is crackers absolutely crackers well the worst part about all of that too is that it's so blatantly clear it's not surprised is it it's Maranakis it's like I don't know PR side or whatever who's feeding things out and saying no this is what there's always so much information about how Maranakis feels and what he thinks and what he thought of this game and what he thinks of the manager start this doesn't come from nowhere it doesn't come from a vacuum so like what is he doing he undermines the manager just in case listeners are wondering that banging is Gregor Robertson banging on the table we've reached we've reached the point in the show where Gregor Robertson starts banging on the table and you know he's really really passionate about the subject Pete what do you make of this Ange car crash that is unfolding before our eyes it's a completely predictable mess I mean I was trying I was trying to think of something positive to talk about but I mean Ange Postocle has gone in there and he's trying to instill his style like I think just looking at some of the numbers they've registered more passes in games under Ange than they did in the entirety under Nuno and you look at the make-up of the squad it just doesn't fit I know they've lost Murillo I don't agree with that I think it could fit but I think it's such a kind of step change but in terms of the profile of players even you look at the centre-halves Milenkovic and Murillo they're brilliant because if you sit them deep Murillo could play in Ange's team all day long he's fast he's great on the ball he's a bit of a maverick but as a combination to play the way that Ange Postacoglu wants to play.

45:12It doesn't make any sense. No, there are aspects of it, but they're like... So you're saying then you think it could come round? Like Tom's hinting at, Tom I think was hinting at what you're expecting in such a short amount of time. It could come round, but it will never work because it's Ange Postacoglu. I'm sorry, it's the truth. I think that, I read a stat today that after a 10-game start with Spurs, winning the top of the league, he's managed 70 league games and earned 79 points. That says it all. To be fair though, conversely, when Ange went to Spurs, I remember when he started, there was this big idea that wherever he'd gone, there was always a rough start.

45:51And then it came on afterwards. Gradually, the players adapted to his style of play, adapted to his physical demands as well more than anything else. Happened at Brisbane Raw, Yokohama. Even at Celtic, they had a dodgy start in the first 10 games. Yeah, went out to Mitchell and then Shabbos League. So actually, the Spurs start where they were top of the league after 11 games was sort of the asterisk to his career. I personally think the most balmy thing now to do, apart from appointing Ange mid-season, like we said, would be to sack him after six or seven games. Because if you appoint him in that scenario, then surely you understand that you need to give him the time to make his way of playing work.

46:32And I'm not quite as sure as Gregor is about the idea that Ange can't work in the Premier League. Don't forget he had a season at Spurs where they finished fifth in the first season. You know, a very respectable finish for Tottenham. And did win the Europa League, just to remind everyone. The Europa League. He would want me to say that. And I always think there's a slight thing with Ange. It's the one game they've won in his last 11 as a manager. But it's not about this. It is about the style, but it's actually more than anything it's about the physical relentlessness. You know, if he can keep a squad fit and he has the players available, his style can work to an extent in the Premier League.

47:02Like you can finish fifth in the Premier League with Ange Postacoglu. You can do that, Gregor. the problem is is it keeping the players fit and healthy throughout the whole season that's the thing but also like how many games are we in and this was not there wasn't actually any attempt to play Ange Bala in this game so like if he's I don't know you go round in circles if he's not going to do if he's not going to do the thing that he says he's banging on the desk and he's sighing this is what I do what do you want I mean we're seeing we're seeing him adapt and he's going away to Newcastle and they haven't got blown away so I mean what what do we want if we're kind of criticising him for being one trick pony and then he adapts and he's a bit more pragmatic and we say no idea no idea both things can be true Gregor it's alright you can want both things can I just say one more thing I hope he does I think there's a sort of general narrative with that and he has his weaknesses but I do think I hope he does well I hope he turns it around so do I so do I it's getting so self indulgent shut up you he is he is he's talking about picking fights with people in the playground because we're a bully this isn't we don't But all managers are a bit self-indulgent, aren't they?

48:08Yeah, but it's like against... You're completely disregarding the contest. Like, I don't care. I don't care. Of course you care. Everyone cares if you come into a new job and you've not won in seven games and you're threatened with a sack. Of course you care. It's stupid to say that you don't. So, like, I like them. I like them and I loved the football in the early days. I actually don't mind as much. I don't mind that it will never work because Forrest... they don't need to win the Premier League they'll come a point when Maranakis goes yeah I do but we're not there yet so like fine if it was fun but he's almost like created his own narrative Tom you'll love that he's created his own narrative that he can't escape and I think the players know about it as well and probably he's doomed I think you love him too much I think that's what it is I think it's pain coming through I think you love him wanting to succeed too much I remember when you used to love him remember that Tom you were so excited let's very just briefly mention Newcastle because it was a big win for them Nick Voltemado becoming only the third player to score in each of his first three home Premier League appearances for Newcastle after Les Ferdinand in 95 and Alan Shearer in 96 good omens for him quietly a wonderful little signing for Newcastle after all the turmoil Martin Hardy writing on the Times website about all the strikers they missed out on they pluck a bloke that no one had ever heard from heard of sorry and like he's brilliant absolutely brilliant it's a great start isn't it and we've talked with Manchester United about you know good signs and things and good PR I think it's great isn't it that he started so well yeah needed as well because of the nature of the summer and everything that happened it's similar in the you know we're talking about Lamans and just having the psychology around the player being positive from the start yeah exactly needed that certainly for Newcastle for Eddie Howell the rest of the recruitment has been okay actually around him.

50:04I think Malik Thur's come in and done quite well as well. We haven't seen Johan Wisser and he's getting close, I think. So it'll be interesting to see where he fits. That's quite curious, actually. I know Eddie Howell in the past has played with a two and someone off a main nine, but that midfield three is so set. Joe Linton, Gimerajian and Tonali, so disrupting that will be really interesting. Anthony Gordon's come back in and they're in quite a good place, Newcastle, I think. The thing that's worked well for him is that he scored goals when he wasn't really getting many he scored goals in games where he's actually done nothing it would have been really quick and easy to turn, I was at the Bournemouth game it was 0-0 and all the questions afterwards were like, my god look at this Alexander Isak shaped hole up front that's just because he had one game where he was drawn a blank he was great in Europe in midweek he was confident and his penalty was quite cocky we can chop almost, it was great but it's just getting off to a good start in pure goal scoring terms.

51:07He's not actually, I'm still not sure about, he's not quite as dynamic, he's nowhere near as dynamic as the man he's replacing. No. And they're all about dynamism going forward so he has to be a focal point. He's actually, he's kind of a number 10 really too. So they're also trying to have to mould his game and say you've got to be the guy who's playing when you're back to goal a lot of the time. And he's shown signs of that too. But the main thing is, he scored goals. Scoring goals. A team that didn't get a good start, Volk Mardy had a great start is Aston Villa Tom you were there to watch them having a good turnaround four wins on the spin for Unai Emery who doubted him not me I did a little bit but it's a good turnaround for Unai Emery and Aston Villa yeah I mean I think still early days there's four wins but I think I said in the report that two of those in the Europa League won against Burnley who didn't offer very much in this game in truth so I think I don't think we can sort of say Villa are back but this was definitely an encouraging day and I sort of think my takeaway from it was that But, you know, Emery's been there now since, what, 2022?

52:02You know, so he's been there a while. You know, it's well documented this whole thing about Villa's lack of signings and evolving the team. But I think what that kind of forgets is that Emery's really good at improving players he has. You know, he's never been a coach who's been handed millions and millions and, you know, a star-studded squad. He's always sort of taken smaller teams upwards, you know. And if you look at kind of the team that Villa have now and you look at the players who played well yesterday, I thought Cameron was fantastic, you know. Great pass. Oh, I mean. What a great pass.

52:28He's, I mean, I don't know if it's just me. I don't really know much about Cameron, but I think he's really good. And I speak to one of my friends who's a Villa fan, and he says he's absolutely brilliant. And we love that no one really talks about him, because he's fantastic. He did his ACL, didn't he? Exactly, yeah. And he was out for a while, but he's brilliant before that, and he is a great, great midfielder. And Marlon as well. Emery played him more centrally. Very clever, I thought. Sort of gave him more space to Rodgers and to Watkins. Two great finishes. Really good finish. And Marlon is interesting, because at Dortmund he scored 10 goals, 15 goals last year.

52:56He scored three only. Again, another player who you think, a lot of upside there for someone like Emery to kind of develop they played Bogard 21 year old kid in central midfield very good as well and you suddenly think actually are there some green shoots here of a I don't want to say a new Villa team but a team that can be evolved almost from within you know that Emery can sort of build those players up and actually kind of create something even if it's not the old Villa straight away something that's kind of growing back in again yeah very reassuring signs for Aston Villa and Unai Emery I just wanted to finish with a topic that I teased at the start of the show that we might have to pick up Gregor on Thursday's show but Pete and Tom I wanted to talk about Everton beating Palace Bournemouth more brilliance on Friday night and as I mentioned at the top of the show six points between the top ten you've got Bournemouth in fourth despite losing key players Palace in sixth with a 19 game unbeaten run that comes to an end against an Everton team in eighth even Palace fans saying oh we don't mind Grealish just looks like he's having a great time more brilliant interviews I mean Jack Grealish happy in a post-match interview as the guys who work for the kind of broadcasters must be the dream you go down with your microphone and be like oh it's Jack Grealish absolutely brilliant his line about where's Adam Morton I need to go and give him the man of the match award but do we think we've touched on it a little bit with you know Liverpool in transition are we heading into quite an exciting topsy-turvy Premier League guys do we think such a Tom Clarke question that one honestly what do you mean good to try and get a bit of debate going yes yes no you can have your say on Thursday but yeah I know when we're going to say yes I think we were talking about earlier definitely no definitely yeah yeah particularly because there's more intrigue around the top of the table.

54:28I think we didn't really talk too much about City and the way that they're playing and the way that Pep Guardiola, and we talked about, is this going to be the end of Pep? But the way he's sort of remoulding the team and playing them in a way that's quite interesting and exciting, kind of flawed in a way, but bringing in Donnarumma to help with the basketball games, really fascinating. They look like they can be up there and around it as well. And then you've got Everton, obviously David Moyes is doing a really good job and just having those forward wingers in Jai, really similar players. which is not necessarily associated with David Mussel and Crystal Palace you didn't mention I know that their own beating run came to an end but their underlying numbers are backing up what they're doing they've created more big chances than anyone else Mateta's missing a lot of them so if he could convert them that'd be good maybe he could work on the first time finishing but there's some really interesting clubs that we thought that last season with the Upwoodley mobile teams we thought oh actually maybe this is just a one-off but actually it's different Well it's that point that I'm kind of coming to as well you had Glasner moaning about not signing enough players Eze leaving in the summer Bournemouth losing three of their back four that were so brilliant, just replacing them fairly seamlessly.

55:29Bournemouth, absolutely phenomenal achievement, isn't it? To be fourth after this stage and all that turnaround in the summertime. Yeah, and Semenyo is electric at the moment. You know, I mean, we talk about it's quite sad to be the best midfielder in the league. I think Semenyo at the moment is sort of up there in terms of the best forward in the league. I mean, that goal he scored on Friday night was just brilliant. I think the main difference maybe is the sort of the bottom three or four are better this year. You know, we know that the last season was just a write-off. And I think this season we can see that already those teams down the bottom of the league are going to be much more competitive, which means that whole sort of bottom half is a lot less predictable, in my opinion.

56:04I have to say I'm slightly skeptical about the idea of a sort of topsy-turvy title race. Like I always think after seven games, you can always write a really nice feature about a team who's kind of third in the league, you know, and I have done. And then after 15, 20 games, they're back where you expect them to be in 10th. So I think at this stage in the season, it's always two or three teams that are doing really well that you don't expect. But I expect in 10, 15 games' time, it'll be Arsenal, it'll be City, it'll be Liverpool, and the rest will be away behind. Well, we'll see. We'll pick up that theme on Thursday's show, Gregor, with the guys and see what is to come in the Premier League this season.

56:38But if you've got views on whether it will or won't be a topsy-turvy season, you can get in touch with me, tom.clock at thetimes.co.uk. We'll leave it there. Pete Rutzler, Tom Ornott and Gregor Robertson. thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening me and greg will be back with an efl show and then we'll be back with the regular show on thursday see you then