Do Arsenal only win ugly? Are Spurs just ugly?

0:00This is The Business. A new weekly podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times. With me, Hannah Previtt, The Sunday Times Associate Business Editor. And me, Dominic O 'Connell from Times Radio. From boom to bust, the business tells you the inside story. From the high street to the boardroom, we'll bring you unparalleled insights. We'll talk to unicorns, market movers and city CEOs. Join us every Thursday. Search for The Business from The Times on your podcast app. You're the business. No, Heather, you're the business. No. This is the business. The business is sponsored by PwC.

0:59a year. Don't settle for higher rates. Download the Jerry app or visit jerry.ai slash a cast today.

1:13Hello and welcome to the game football podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. Arsenal and Manchester City keep this tense title race going with nervy victories, but it's VAR dominating the headlines again this weekend with controversial decisions across the Premier League. At the bottom of the table. It was a win for Wolves, but five defeats for the struggling teams above as Igor Tudor fails the vibe test and Tottenham lose again. Joining me, Tom Clark, to discuss all of that and so much more, we have the senior sports writer and Sunday Times columnist, Alison Rudd, the football reporter who covers clubs in the south of England with a focus on Tottenham.

1:46It's Tom Allnut and the former footballer turned journalist, Gregor Robertson is here. As usual, quicker intros team. We've got so much to get in these days. I might for the rest of the season, just go, hello, this is the game football. Let's go. Let's spirit because there's absolutely loads to get in to so let's talk about Arsenal Chelsea. Alison you were there for this one goodness me this was nervy and not very pretty to watch at times but Arsenal getting the victory that they need the theme of your excellent match report on the Times website though is can they keep this going in this manner all the way to the end of the season?

2:18Well if they do then that deserves plaudits in itself because it's like oh it's like someone that goes on a diet and you think well why are you doing that to yourself you know just just eat some bread for goodness sake just enjoy yourself yeah so it's i've found this throughout the season actually and this was the epitome of my feeling about arsenal is they are very capable of playing attractive football they have very talented creative intuitive pacey players they're all the things you need for beautiful football and yet they get so wound up by the fact city had won the day before they it's very tense they have to they have to win and when they're in that sort of have to win mentality they revert to what they do best which is set pieces and forget about all the rest of it and i do believe if they were able to just take a breath and remember they can they can mix it up a bit sometimes it might make it easier for them and for their supporters to go with it because although for example although um city's win against leeds was a narrow victory and these played quite well especially in the latter stages of that game there's something about city don't look like they're that that bothered or that upset or that frenetic or that panicked by it they're used to winning it wouldn't be like a huge historic deal for them to win the title it'd be quite funny because they were considered to be out of the title race briefly And so I sort of described them as sort of gliding through the title race, whereas Arsenal are sort of hyperventilating their way through it.

3:59They just need to take a step back and remember that they do, the reason they're favourites is because they have the better players. Just remember that. So what we ended up with was a messy game. And at times when people say, oh, you know, a team is winning ugly. In this case, it was actually ugly. it was actually ugly to watch because every set piece there was so much hugging and grappling and falling over and i like that but it was aggressive hugging and most of it was allowed to go and you kind of think what what what so i would like to propose having watched the game yesterday i would like to propose that they change the rules completely and you're not you're only allowed two players in the box.

4:48Well, that was a listener who we were speaking about on Thursday's show, wasn't it, Greg? He said three, Alison's saying two. I'll tell you what, I'll come back to corners in a second. Plus the keeper. Because you raise a couple of points there about Arsenal and this title race there, and Gregor was pulling some various faces as you were talking there. Were they nice faces? Debatable. No, they weren't. We'll find out now. To Alison's point. Just quickly on City, I don't think they're gliding in any shape or form, I think. Mentally, they are, though. God, they're not. you saw them after beating Newcastle it was like they'd won the league that day yeah but in a happy way and again they were like enormous relief when they got the final whistle against Leeds but in a fun way okay well okay maybe there's different psychology I'll give you that because they are they're pursuers yes you know they're not leading from the front so there is definitely and as Alison said people have been writing them off including me yeah so but there's no way they're gliding and I don't think they're going to be gliding between now and then of the season either.

5:47That's fair. But on Arsenal then, because I think Alison raised that point at the very top of her answer and in her matchbook and Martin Samuel has done it in his 7am column on the Times website. This idea that we're all kind of willing Arsenal to blow teams away and play brilliant, expansive football and it's kind of that in turn is then holding back our admiration for them if they are to, you know, they're competing for four trophies for goodness sake. They are an amazing team. What do you think about that idea that that is also psychologically playing a part in this title race for them as well that it's all getting a bit nervy and a bit scratchy and alright okay Declan get the ball in the box what do you think about all those kind of ideas?

6:25I mean it's not a change they've been doing it all season there was a brief spell I can't remember when the season it was but they kind of looked like they were really clicking into gear but this is the way they've been playing all season I feel like it's like the same kind of conversation we had when Ange turned up and you think you know it's just a bit more pragmatic it's nonsense there's no point like this this is the way Michael Arteta wants his team to play he wants them to be like really dogged and the most resilient teams are defensively in the league and he sees they've got a huge weapon in set pieces and they're utilising it so like there might be although I mean early on Arteta was not like that right it's not the first couple of seasons the team has evolved to this point and just on Arteta himself he said after this game didn't he Allison talking about the final 10 minutes of these games which is quite striking in the recent ones I've watched as well and it was the same against Wolves when they were 2-1 up.

7:14It was the same in this game. You know, Chelsea with 10 men were passing it around them quite beautifully at times and Arsenal were just kind of desperately trying to get rid of the ball. I think there was a stat about them only completing a certain amount of passes at the end of the game. Chelsea had 65%. Is that not a kind of response? Yes, that's how they want them to play, but this elite team should be able to keep the ball and pass it around and keep possession, kill the game. All those kind of cliches that go with an ugly win, surely. I feel like we're coming back to the same conversation we had about it being easy to do these things when you're feeling the pressure of a Premier League title race.

7:48But even if Arteta's saying we do need to at least keep our heads a little bit better in these final 10 minutes and keep the ball. Tom, what do you think? No, I agree with that. It's not effective. That's the problem. They're 2-1 up against 10-man Chelsea. You'd expect Arsenal with the players they have. They bring on Norgard. They have players like Zubimendi. These are the guys who, in those situations, are meant to control the match. In Arsenal, in that situation, We've seen City do it many times over the years. And whether they do it now is a different discussion. But you suffocate a team in that final 10 minutes.

8:17You know, you keep the ball and Chelsea hardly have an attack. And maybe they have one corner or something. But in that last 20 minutes, it's not the blue shirts pouring forward. And every single attack, you think, well, Arsenal are hanging on here. That just shouldn't happen. I mean, I don't have a kind of like a moral argument against Arsenal. They can do what they want. I think you don't have to be admired as champions. You know, it's about winning. and ultimately this game itself was about getting the win. But actually, if you look at it further ahead in the next 10 games, the way they played in that last 20 minutes against 10 men is not the most effective way for Arsenal to win a match because the most effective way for them to get through, the percentages way for them to get through that game was to keep the ball and to control the game themselves, not to sort of surrender all the momentum to Chelsea.

9:00In theory, yeah, but they were really good defensively. So you're more in the camp of both in terms of tactics and also Martin Samuel's point in his column this morning saying, just embrace it. Forget being this idea that you've got Eze and Zaka and all these players and that we're suddenly going to see a brilliant attacking team in the final stage of the season. Actually, flip it on its head. Set-piece FC. Don't care if you don't like it. We're going to win two, three, four trophies. They've already got a mural of Nicholas Jovo in the tunnel near the stadium. They sing set-piece ole-ole. They have embraced it, Tom.

9:35they might not enjoy the nerves that are associated with this kind of low margin football but if it gets them the title they will not give a damn and I just think that yeah we can all look at the embarrassment of riches they have available and think could we get more out of like Saka was pretty anonymous for most of this game like Izzy is obviously in fairness was on fire against Spurs last week but not really seen him kind of really come to the fore and we would have hoped. But... Yes, but the point is that they... OK, they're top of the league, so they're not doing too badly. But I think the point is if they could embrace a bit of variety, they would be better off.

10:20I think they're over... It's like it's a comfort blanket. And so, you know, instead of going out and enjoying the sunshine, they're staying in their bedroom cuddling the comfort blanket, which is their set pieces, instead of thinking, We've got the set pieces. We're very lucky to have the set pieces and we can ole the set pieces and we can have a mural of our set piece coach. But we've also got other things that we can dominate a game with. Is there part of it that in past seasons when they perhaps were, in my opinion, a bit more expansive and a bit less set piece that it didn't work for them?

10:51So they're kind of reverting more and more away from let's not take a risk here and go on the attack and get hit on the counter attack by, for example, one that springs to mind, Aston Villa and Ollie Watkins in that game where we lose points and that's where it all falls apart. Definitely. I think psychologically and also tactically, like I think Arteta has made, that's not just something that's in their minds that Arsenal are doing because they're nervous about what's happened before. I think Arteta has consciously developed this team to become a nastier team, a more physical team, a more robust team in his eyes.

11:21You know, the version of Arsenal in that first two or three years under Arteta was better to watch, but they were much more vulnerable as a result. But the counter to that is that there's a balance. And I think at this point, I take Gregor's argument, but there is evidence that we've seen in the last few weeks that this method isn't always effective. Against Wolves, they surrendered the momentum for the last 20 minutes against a team they shouldn't do that against, and they end up losing two points. That could have happened in this match. To me, it doesn't matter how Arsenal win the league. Football always has its bad guys, and Arsenal are perfectly within their rights to be the bad guys of this season.

11:58You can have Barcelona, or you can have Atletico Madrid. You can have Pep Guardiola, or you can have Mourinho. It doesn't really matter. Sport always has to have that variety. It's not up to Arsenal to supply an entertainment product for everyone. They can go in the league on their terms and they can do that. They might not be remembered as a legacy team in the Premier League, but the Arsenal fans, as Gregor says, they're not going to care about that. Their name will be on the trophy. That's all they need. And maybe in the next two or three years, they can develop and become a team that people remember because they love them.

12:25Right now, they don't need to be loved. They just need to get over the line. And that's completely fine. The question is, is it the most effective way for them to get over the line? and in my opinion it's actually not like these are the matches where they probably can just impose some control and they've got a better chance then of not surrendering the silly points they have done in the last few matches I think Arteta is scared of the unpredictability and the strength of the Premier League because they play properly in Europe where it's then you know most of the teams are not as good as the Premier League right they're also not playing low blocks against them they play more expansive football but there is no fear there there's no fear there it's worth actually mentioning that a lot of the time Arsenal come up against teams who aren't really allowing them to be free-flowing and expansive they might dominate position but they're not like giving them space to exploit so it's a bit of a give and take that's you know often you know there's a stat I think it's nine games they've made they've broken the deadlock from corners often that's been required to make the other team come out yeah that's fair it wasn't the case in this game but just quickly to you because obviously the guys have made that point to Tom's idea that is this the most effective where you're saying set piece ole ole like I mean clearly keeping the ball if you have like the composure and you know the ability which you would think Arsenal have to keep the ball and as Tom says suffocate a game when you're in the lead of course you should do it but it's not that easy either it's not that easy in a title race it's not that easy against even a 10 man Chelsea it's not that it's not that easy full stop if it was they'd be doing it do you think is it having any effect on the players?

14:01Because sure, will the players, some of the attacking players, you mentioned Saka being slightly anonymous in this game as we've seen quite a few times this season. Udegaard, Alisson, one of your favourite players for dictating and controlling the tempo of a game. Not as influential as before. Tom, you're talking about Zubimendi and Timber, I think, have both played the most minutes or games for Arsenal this season. You start looking at that defence, David Ryer I'm going to bring in in a minute, it starts being like back five, Rice and Zubimendi and the kind of guys up front, and one of them's Victor Gioconis yeah but they may be going oh god I wouldn't mind a bit more of the ball here lads but I don't know maybe that's maybe they won't care in the same way the fans won't care well I mean who will Arsenal's player of the season be their top three candidates will be what Gabriel, Declan Rice, possibly David Royer Zubermendi Zubermendi I mean I don't think all the defenders, the keeper and the new defensive midfield the front three don't get in the conversation really I mean Sacco probably will do but I mean and if you think about the team of the year in the Premier League do you take any Arsenal forwards?

14:57I mean probably not but you probably take all of the back six you know so I mean that says that kind of says where they're at right yeah I think that's probably fair I mean just quickly on David Raya he's someone that you've met before Tom and interviewed in the past he's making big saves again right at the end that one that was going in in the office it looked like from the TV angle I was like this is creeping in he sticks an arm out obviously it was a more comfortable win against Tottenham but he made a big save in that game he's a big save player isn't he we talk about big game players he's a big save goalkeeper isn't he yeah big saves and big moments in big matches I think he's been a super signing for Arsenal, actually.

15:30It was interesting because when he was at Brentford, there was an idea that he was sort of being linked with Spurs and you kind of look where Spurs are. They could really do with him, to be honest. I think he was good with his feet, but he's very agile around the box. Raya's journey is obviously really interesting. Probably people are aware of it. He started in Paloja, just outside Barcelona. Came over to Blackburn when he was kind of 16. Went out on loan to Stockport, went back to Blackburn. Southport, sorry, Southport. There were more down in Stockport. So he sort of almost come up the ranks of kind of English football.

16:03I think he sort of understands the physicality of the game. He knows what a kind of English goalkeeper is like. And I think you can see that in the way he plays, you know. And obviously that kind of Brentford education he had as well. I think, I mean, you know, the save he made even at the end where it was for the one that was offside, you know, he kind of claws it out. It was a great save. You know, he's absolutely key for us. I mean, when you think about it, he probably was slightly at fault with Gabriel for that Wolves equaliser. The fact that he's followed it up with some big moments in these big games maybe does talk to, is a testament to maybe this psychology that we're all talking about.

16:34Have they got it? He's showing that absolutely he's fine. Alison, sorry, I wanted to ask about Chelsea because it would be very easy to get lost in this. Very interesting season there, having more red cards for them. I'm starting to feel a little bit sorry for Liam Rossini, actually. I actually really like him. He's a great vibes guy, isn't he? you know he's the kind of guy that if you were like on a stag do on the second morning when everyone's a bit you know hanging struggling he'd be like come on boys right we're off let's go who wants some breakfast who needs a coffee who needs a tea on the touchline all the time there was misplaced passes really terrible like sideways passes straight out for thrones and he's there going good yeah yeah come on come on he's very very tactile as well he likes to give the whole you know hug and tap on the shoulder yeah well done come on all the time yeah he's really trying And I mean, Chelsea, there was lots to like about Chelsea in this game, I thought.

17:22What about you guys? I thought looking at them, once again, this team are too young to cope with being at the Emirates against a very rugged, ugly Arsenal team. They will be bullied and they weren't actually. They actually, in fact, they really kind of took it on, didn't they? We're going to do the corners as well. And there was good delivery by Rhys James for their set pieces. Really, really lovely delivery. and um yeah you can't you can't deny that they're too young and although the idea that it's youth that's causing the nine red cards is doesn't work because it's mainly the older players are being sent off on the whole so it's not that they're just being impetuous but there it might be just that that there's something about feeling you're on a part of a project and you've got room for growth that makes you quite relaxed and that there's a sort of maturity that creeps in accidentally almost because they they looked really relaxed and older than their years and all did their jobs more or less really well and when um you know Enzo Maresco called out David James Rhys James for not being um captain material yeah but I think I think he's one of those players that may not shout a lot but he shows it oh my goodness really shows it and he whenever there's an incident he will he will walk over to any incident very very calmly never raises his voice but he's he's letting his players know i'm there and i want to know what's up yeah and uh and you know the best captains just show through their consistency through a game that they're they're the right person to lead so he's he's a bit unusual in that and i think he's he's been called out and maybe took it lightly, the fact he was made captain, you know, with a shrug.

19:13And then he realized he had to take it more seriously. And now he looks mature and a proper leader. And I think Chelsea do have the possibility to grow under Resinia, actually. We've talked a lot about the limitations he might have from above, but he's trying really hard to create a camaraderie and a style of football. But the most impressive thing about them was you're right for the word vibe about their manager it was on the pitch as well there was a vibe they were comfortable there was a lot of strolling relaxed football in that game and they shouldn't have been given what sort of game it was yeah I mean unless Sanchez had the ball at his feet they looked very comfortable and they looked the better team yeah even at 10 men sometimes I was really impressed with the way they approached the game after the red card as well well they're not used to it yeah that's true yeah they were brave both full backs forward and forward I thought Joe Pedro was excellent he's really up for a physical battle with Gabriel and Saliba he didn't always win it but he was always there that was a good contrast with Goykeres wasn't it that he was the better player absolutely he put himself in a position to take a hit and win a foul but he's also really good at link and play and that goal that we mentioned before he was offside but the way he kind of controlled it with his head it was a real shame watching it because you're like he's offside but this is really cool actually that's such a shame when they signed him and it was like You know, another player, is he really, really a striker?

20:38Is he really a number nine? But I think the more I see him, the more I think he can do that. I also thought Chalabar was brilliant. Again, just out of all the players that come and go, he's the one. Just very quickly on the red cards then as a former player, like speaking to Pete Rutzler this morning, he's on his way to a Liam Rossini press conference now as we speak. Some of their second yellow cards, one was for dissent, one was for arguing with the ref, one was for excessive celebrations, one was for time wasting. you know you saw it yesterday Neto flying into that tackle you're thinking what are you doing mate there was even a moment where Enzo Fernandes I think got booked throwing the ball on the floor at the end and I get it it's frustrations but at this stage in the season of this many red cards like how what does Rosinha do does he does he start finding people does he start having a word like or is it the players responsibilities sort out amongst themselves no I mean he's got to do it there's a responsibility in the players too but managers got to try and do something about it I don't think finding modern day players is going to do much I always come back to that that thing that Nuno did at Wolves where if a player was late the rest of the he made all the players wait in a huddle until the player joined them and he said right okay we're ready to start now that would put you know what I mean that would put so Rhys James said afterwards we've discussed it we know that it's happening too much like this is an issue it'll be a bit of a peer pressure thing too it'll be like don't be the next guy we can't let this go on anymore because it's killing us well because they'd look at that game and go that's a missed opportunity there yeah I mean I just think it's true that you can't just put it down to youth but they do feel like a slightly sort of they don't play they rarely play for 90 minutes in the same sort of state or at the same level actually and they were in the ascendancy they just you know this was after the equaliser and they were you know I think it was four minutes afterwards and Neto was chasing chasing Martinelli down the line it was just just a head loss moment reckless head loss moment didn't Pedro Nessio didn't even know he was on a yellow yeah but then it looked like that it was kind of tackle where you're like do you know you're being booked or anything that's something you can nip in the bud in fact you could and you probably could start putting fines like strong fines in place for that for not knowing you've got a yellow no no if it's descent just on the first yellow there's pictures and video of him stood right next to the referee as the referee showing him a yellow card so I think he showed two yellow cards he might have thought it was not I don't know anyway listen it's an interesting problem for Liam Rossini to solve and Pete Rutzer will be writing about it on the Times website we mentioned City chasing them we've talked about the manner in which they're playing I just wanted to mention quickly Greg Antoine Semenyo six goals in 11 games for them we knew he was good I didn't think he'd start this well for City he's now like first name on the team sheet isn't he he's one of them yeah no it's always really interesting when a player makes a step up to that extent and relatively like late and he's in his prime but late in his career as well but he just he feels like you never see him playing with any sort of pressure or weight on his shoulders anything just looks like he belongs and he's struck up a bit of a relationship with Ait Nouria and getting kind of on the end of those crosses he's quite he's quite flexible too he can almost play through the middle he can he can drift in from out wide yeah he's been a big part of City's sort of resurgence of late I think he's in the conversation player of the season because what you don't often see is a player who moves from a team like Bournemouth where he was playing really well.

24:04I mean, he was playing really well for Bournemouth. Yeah. And then he makes the switch. And that's hard to do. You go from a team like Bournemouth, who I love, but they're not Man City, are they? And then, you know, it's not, they're not after the same things. And you make the switch up to Man City and that can mess with your head. It can take time to adapt. It took him 30 seconds. Yeah. And I think that is a factor when we all come to make our vote for who the player of the season is. I think that should be one of the factors. Wow, to make that transition so seamlessly. He looks like he's been a City player for three or four years.

24:39Especially the City. Because, you know, you often hear players, so they go to City and, you know, you need six months just to understand what Pep's telling you. I remember Calvin Phillips kind of saying he just felt dizzy the first couple of weeks from his training ground, you know. So the fact he's gone there and hit the ground running is impressive. other nominations for player of the year then Alisson's already given hers to Antoine Semenyu Dominic Sabozlai for me has to be played about three different positions and looked the best player in Liverpool's team in all of them and scored one of the best free kicks I've ever seen two of the best free kicks you've ever seen I think if if Arsenal win the league Gabriel because I think he's probably their most impactful I know people say about Rice and Zubomendi and like there are so many candidates for that without being a superstar he's like I've said this before like their sort of warrior spirit spirit and what his presence does for Arsenal on the pitch and also his presence in the opposition's box.

25:28Honestly, I was just thinking after watching this game yesterday, I can't remember anyone being better at attacking a football from a corner. I can't remember. I stopped and he's made first contact 11 times this season. There are a few players above him, the most 14, that's Van Dijk. There are a few people who are magnetic for a ball to cross into the box. But Van Dijk's a bit different. He sort of positions himself and they aim for him. He kind of, he's they isolate try to isolate M1v1 you saw Reestreams trying to mark him yesterday and it's just imagine he fell on the floor at one point just you know ducks and weaves always gets and I think that's 25 goals he's played a part in that's enormous that's had six seasons but like 20 goals 5 assists he's always always terrorising the opposition and at the back some of the battles he has yeah I think he'd be right up there if Arsenal won it I think it'd be Rice you know if Arsenal win it I think I mean Gabriela's a great argument but I think it would be Rice.

26:23Everyone loves Rice. If Arsenal would have ever not wait for Rice. Yeah. You'd have to take the vote until going on. But if City were to win it, would you go for Semenya? Donnarumma? Yeah, it's a good shout. Probably one of the better more important signings of the summer in the end. But it looks like you couldn't give him Player of the Year probably. But in terms of City's most important player. But I think Semenya is a great argument. I like the idea of being so good for both teams and making the step up. Listeners, if you've got views on who should be Player of the Year do get in touch with me, Tom.Clark, at thetimes.co.uk.

26:53We're going to take a quick break in a moment, but just before we do, we've got loads more still to discuss. Newcastle, Everton was a thriller, but mainly for Jordan Pickford. You're all finally coming around to the fact that Jordan Pickford is an absolute legend, as I've been saying on this podcast for years, Gregor. What a save. What a bloody save that is. I honestly think everyone's been talking about it, but not enough. Like nowhere near enough. That was a remarkable save. The reaction was great. Exactly. Tarkovsky's getting the fans in head. and his silly little celebration as well obviously don't celebrate anything not until the full time whistle but it was a terrific save wasn't it remarkable like how has he thrown himself and the strength of your hand to be able to tip that over the bar absolutely brilliant it was the speed of it when it's not slow motion just seeing it in real time because what a strike as well and just like yeah incredible reaction Davy Raya understandably getting lots and lots of praise but super Jordan Pickford is still the man for me.

27:49As I say, loads more still to come in part two, including Manchester United and it was another win for Michael Carrick. He now has 23 points from nine games, which is a Premier League record for a new manager, joint with who? Find out after the break.

28:13This is The Business. A new weekly podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times. With me, Hannah Previtt, the Sunday Times Associate Business Editor. And me, Dominic O 'Connell from Times Radio. From boom to bust, the business tells you the inside story. From the high street to the boardroom, we'll bring you unparalleled insights. We'll talk to unicorns, market movers and city CEOs. Join us every Thursday. Search for The Business from The Times on your podcast app. You're the business. No, Heather, you're the business. No. This is the business. The Business is sponsored by PwC. You know what's wild?

28:47most people are still overpaying for car insurance just because it's a pain to switch. That's why there's Jerry. Jerry's the only app that compares rates from over 50 insurers in minutes and helps you switch fast with no spam calls or hidden fees. Drivers who save with Jerry could save over$1 ,300 a year. Before you renew your car insurance policy, do yourself a favor. Download the Jerry app or head to jerry.ai slash acast.

29:21Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Tom Allnut, Alison Rudd and Gregor Robertson with me. Gregor wasting no time in getting back off the mark with the answer to the quiz question, which was? Big Ange. Ange Apostol-Coglu also getting 23 points from his first nine games as manager of Tottenham. What a long time ago. You can start that. What a long time ago. It's 90 days. That seems. Seriously, how long ago was that? Like two and a half seasons? Two and a half seasons, yeah. That obviously feels like a decade ago. Truly remarkable.

29:51Truly, absolutely remarkable. Anyway, let's speak about Tottenham. Fulham against Tottenham. Fulham getting an excellent 2-1 win. Tom Allnut, our Tottenham man, was there. Vibes-wise, it's a struggle for you this season. But speaking of vibes, let's start first with Fulham because we're not going to give him a mention at all, as is often the case with these kind of games and narratives. Another terrific performance. And speaking of saves of the season, players of the season, Alex Iwobi what a lovely hit that was what a goal it was a weird one though wasn't it because he sort of as a side foot the hardest side foot I've seen from 25-30 yards to generate the pace for that it felt like one of the I said he still managed to put a bend on it as well like a punching golf putt went down the green and snaked into the far corner it was that kind of thing it was super technique it was a great goal what a great player and great vibes as well Alex Iwobi I always think he's got lovely demeanour about him anyway Fulham that's all you're getting I'm afraid and that's probably pretty good.

30:45Well, except they should have scored three or four, shouldn't they? Yeah, they played well. The first half, they had more chances than 2-0. If anything, just shouldn't have let that kind of game unravel a bit in the last 20 minutes. But they were fully deserved the victory. And, you know, what, Knights now still in contention for the European places? I think I said they were relegation contenders in the early parts of the season. Tut, tut, tut. Anyway, but the fact that they could have won four or five is an indictment of Igor Tudor and his early start as Tottenham manager. Tom, this was a cracker's first half, wasn't it?

31:12You're looking at Conor Gallagher, new signings playing as a, was he a right winger? Was he a right wing back? Like you've got Pedro Porro as part of a back three alongside Dragasin. You're looking at it going, you are going to go down. This is absolutely atrocious. What is going on? To be fair, I think he thought the sort of 4-4-2, which is what I thought it was, was basically a way to kind of go back to basics, get some solidity and structure. So you thought it was 4-4-2 with Conor Gallagher as a right winger? Yeah, I think it was 4-4-2 with Gallagher as a right mid and Xavi Simon as a left mid.

31:40The idea, I think, was that Xavi would kind of push up make it more of a 4-3-3 on the ball. But Spurs had such a lack of the ball in the first half that didn't really materialise very much.

31:52And I think in terms of the back four, maybe it kind of gave a bit more structure. But I just couldn't really see how that system worked for anyone, really. Gallagher had a really difficult first half. So the first five minutes, he kind of played a pass back to Porro and it kind of went out all the way for a Fulham corner. It didn't really get much better for him. Xavi Simon's anonymous. to be honest on the left wing and it's one of those ones where I feel like as those of us who have been watching Spurs all year have definitely seen that Xavi Siemens doesn't play as a left winger in a 4-3-3 and definitely not as a left midfielder in a 4-4-2 both you and Alison on this podcast and in your articles have said the few very bright moments for Tottenham this season has been when Xavi Siemens is kind of on the ball in a central area trying to dictate play for a team that is lacking kind of creative force so don't stick him on the wing.

32:43No. Just seems crackers. Archie Gray at left back didn't give any balance and, you know, basically just kind of Gray bingo where a position I think he hasn't played that much for Spurs, just sling him in basically even though they signed Souza, Brazilian left back in January, seemingly not ready for the first team. I mean, you know, what was the point in that if he wasn't ready because they need a left back. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, sympathy with Tudor because obviously he's trying to kind of find a system that works with a team that is clearly deeply flawed. Let's not get away from that. The players in this team are lacking in lots of areas, as he said, after the match.

33:15But the system didn't work. It really didn't. And it sort of said after, you know, an hour, where he took off Xavi, he took off Gallagher, he took off Kohler Mwani. And, you know, Tottenham were better after that. They brought on Tell, they made a big difference. Richarlison got the goal. Saar brought a little bit more energy in midfield. So, I mean, if you're looking for some green shoots and, you know, they're very, very tiny little green shoots, perhaps those three maybe go into the team for the now crucial match at home to Palace on Thursday. But in terms of performance, I mean, I would like to say, I think I said this on the phone, Tom, I didn't ring Fulham away as kind of one of Tottenham's golden games.

33:52I was going to bring this up, so I'm glad you did. Tell us the golden game. This is what I want to know. They've got sort of five or six matches right at home. I can't remember off the top of my head now. They've got sort of Everton at home, Palace at home, Forest at home. Yeah, they've got Palace, Forest. They've got Brighton at home as well. They've got Wolves away. the only thing I'd say about Everton that's the last game of the season that's oh crikey they've got Leeds at home as well but they're away games Chelsea Aston Villa Sunderland Liverpool right but if they need let's say 9 or 10 points they've got 4 or 5 games there where those are the ones they need to win Fulham away here is a sort of a tricky test and it shows where you are in terms of Spurs you look at that match and think well actually that's probably not one you're expecting to get points from the concerning thing in my opinion was not that they lost 2-1 It was the performance for the first hour, the fact that Tudor came up with a system after a full week of training that, in my opinion, completely backfired.

34:44And then also probably top one of the most concerning things in the afternoon was his reaction to the match afterwards, where basically he said everything is not good enough. The midfield is rubbish, doesn't run. The attack is rubbish, can't score. The defence is rubbish, not prepared to suffer, not to concede a goal. And you think, yeah, mate, what did you expect? You took over a team that was 16th. your job is to make the team play better, you know? And it's, I think, quite concerning for Spurs that already the bounce man, who was meant to come in and provide the bounce, two defeats out of two, the team's not playing better, and he already looks like someone who is...

35:21Thinking, what the hell am I doing here? Why am I here? And I don't believe in these players. That's a problem. And also, because he's... I've talked a lot about vibes on this show already, and I do all the time. Like, surely as an... Essentially as an interim, whatever you want to call it, like you're a gun higher lift the mood just come in be like you're it you're a much better player than you bounce only works if you give him a bloody bounce the Bones guy's an arsonist they've hired an arsonist to put out a fire it's an absolute madness like every word he's uttered since he's arrived has like made your eyes widen and go what are you doing what are you thinking he's thinking about himself he's thinking about himself and his reputation rather than the team.

36:06Why are you doing that after one or two games in an interim position? Because all he has on his CV is the first two games. That's what he's good at. Well, more than, but yeah, a short period in charge. Yeah, he's got these short periods. But I mean, is he actually thinking there's an international break coming up in March, which Tottenham have got some pretty big games before then? Like, Gregor, this season, Nottingham Forest have had four managers. Tottenham can have three. That wouldn't be that surprising for teams at the bottom, would it? I mean he's not thinking that in my opinion but the club might you know if they go through If I was a fan of Tottenham I'd be looking at this listening to it and listening to you the Tottenham man for the times going I went to the second game he's had a full week I watched this and went I don't know what the idea is I don't know what the plan was that was worse than a lot of what I've seen already and then I'd listen to the manager come out and absolutely boot a load of you know demoralised players and think actually mate jog on like this is not what we need when we're scrapping down the bottom Yeah I mean I think there are two counterpoints One, the Palace game is huge.

37:04If they win the Palace game on Thursday, then everything is justifiable. And as I say, I think you looked at these games, Arsenal at home, Fulham away. OK, zero points is not ideal. But you think actually the one that you really need to kind of go and get the result in is the Palace match. And the other thing to say, I think, is a lot of Tottenham fans would say with some justification, I think that maybe some of the players needed this. You know, actually the kind of arm around the shoulder, nice guy kind of thing with Frank also didn't work, by the way. That's not entirely true, though. He made them work hard.

37:38He made them work hard where they had been spoiled under Ange. So he's going to be out going back the other way, though. It wasn't just that he was soft. I mean, I think Frank, I mean, Romero came out on Instagram and was slagging off the club and didn't get any punishment. And the players, for example, Van der Ven and Spence walked off ignoring Frank when he told them to go and salute the fans. There were quite a lot of instances, I think, where Frank, and I'm not saying he was wrong, but he decided to take the softer approach. And you can see the players in the team right now, look at the performance.

38:12Solanke doesn't track his man for a Wobie's goal. You can talk about Raul Jimenez's push on Dragussen, but Tottenham don't defend that properly. All over the pitch, you see players running off them and fingers coming out saying, yeah, that's your man, you go with him, I'm staying where I am. People aren't doing the basics of the game. So I've made the argument why I think it's a high-risk strategy for Tudor basically coming in and burning down the players. But equally, a lot of people might say, well, yeah, this is what the players need. They need someone to come in and tell them they're not putting in enough and they're not fighting hard enough.

38:48yeah I mean up to a point I think he's crossed that point he's gone beyond that point already that's the thing it's like part of it's his demeanour like you can say the things about you saying we need to show more personality like fair enough yeah they do they need to show more personality take more like personal responsibility and say this is my job this is what I need to do I need to every single one of us needs to help turn this around fine make that point but then don't like pan out and talk about the whole team and the whole squad as if it's wildly not good enough. I also don't buy that fact he's saying this is the hardest job he's ever taken.

39:24That's a bad take too. Twice he's had to save Udinese from the dropout and say, yeah, you look at the team. Because he should be privileged to be working in the Premier League. He shouldn't be working. Yeah, he shouldn't have had the job. How can he come in? I don't understand how he thinks it's a strategy, a viable strategy to come in to a job you should never have had in the first place and burn the place down. That's basically what he's done so far. So you're persuading me of my own argument that he won't be the manager at the end of the season, even though you were shaking your head at my suggestion.

39:57Like, are you shaking your head because it's so crazy to even contemplate? Yeah, but it's a weird season. Yeah. Look, if they keep losing, if they keep losing, and, you know, any sort of uplift at home, again, they've got a home game. You keep talking about these games at home. That's been the problem. Like, you're going to have to turn around your home form as well. So if the atmosphere was to turn toxic again at home and they keep losing, it's not beyond the realms. But he's only two games in life. Give him a chance. I mean, to some extent, the players have to take some responsibility. I think if you look at the Tottenham's team, I've always felt, and I said during Frank's tenure, that the squad is really flawed and they were struggling with injuries and they clearly still are.

40:38And that is another factor that could come into Tudor's favour is in the next few weeks, you get Kudus back, you get other players back who could make a big difference. but they're not a 16th place team. I still insist that. I think this is maybe an 8th to 12th kind of squad, but you look at Van de Ven, you look at Romero, you look at Palinja, Solanke, these are players that Burnley and Forrest and West Ham and Leeds would love to have. And I still think if you go into that squad as Tudor is, I think the better percentage strategy is to tell these players how good they are. And to say, you're going to the World Cup, You could play for these clubs.

41:16Look at what you've done before. Look at that game where you thrashed Manchester City last season. You won the Europa League. These are the things I think are the way to make these players believe in themselves. Not to say, you can't attack. Your midfield is rubbish. The defence is rubbish. I'm out of here in two months. You've got no personality. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah. It's a bold move. It's a bold move. We'll see if it pays off with that home game against Palace. Tom, you're going to be there reporting on it for the Times. let's talk about some of the teams around Tottenham near the bottom of the table but we're also gonna Gregor just to warn you here is coming I have to talk about VAR as well I'm afraid Burnley look like they might have got one of the most remarkable comebacks of the season against Brentford at Turf Moor but were denied by an offside and a handball call in this game a remarkable match really in lots of ways Brentford looked to be cruising in this one Gregor your thoughts as VAR and anger VAR correspondent about the offside the Jane and Anthony half a shoulder blade offside what more is there to say I mean I just I also hate the pretense you've not even said you hate it you just said I hate the pretense I hate the pretense that this is 100 % infallible correct decision like that the moment where the foot was made contact with the ball is 100 % accurate and the part of the arm that is deemed offside that is deemed a part of the arm that you can score a goal with remember is 100 % accurate it and based on all of that you've chalked off a goal that feels to anyone with any mind like any sense sorry should have been a goal it's i'm just really tired of it yeah and the handball the handball dropped onto his arm maybe later on that's the point maybe conclusive maybe maybe if it's not conclusive don't i didn't see it i didn't see it i didn't see it with my glasses off what what have they seen what have they seen i haven't seen maybe need to go did you actually see the ball?

43:08I thought it looked like he fell onto it. I thought that the handball to me was less offensive than the offside. The offside upset me a lot because of the nature of it. But Tom? I was sort of the opposite actually. I kind of felt if the line is there I completely take Craig's point that is the line the right point and et cetera. But at least that is a kind of black and white call and I think the handball was just the kind of decision that VAR should go with nowhere near. They should look at it and be like we can't see that. It's too close. We go with the on-field decision and that should have taken 20 seconds to decide that.

43:38Just very quickly on another incident this weekend. Tyler Adams not getting a red card for a quite aggressive tackle, some would say, in the Bournemouth-Sunderland game. After a push in the back. So I'm just checking. I just wanted to give you the full scope so listeners have got your full check on this one. I don't think that should have been controversial. Not in that one. That would have been a very var red card. That would have been a var red card. I slowed down. Stalemich, look, there's his studs in his ankle. But look at the context. You're happy not to see that one. Okay, fine. I mean, the Jimenez push in the Fulham game was a push.

44:08So I was going to then come back to that as well. Some pushes and not pushes that we've seen in recent weekends and things. But this is the problem, isn't it? This is when we then start going into the granular detail. And, oh, if you've given that, you need to give that. And if you've not given that, then you shouldn't give that. We're going to talk about it with Manchester United and Crystal Palace as well. With that pull on Cunha going into the box from Lacroix as a former defender, Gregor. He must have done that a million times in your career. Did you see him? Did you see him with his fingers?

44:32Yeah. like there's three fingers and he's almost he's like touching go touch go like he knows that he's in the box and he's like any if he really grabs his shoulder and he goes down it's a penalty so he's doing a very it's just a defender nowadays knowing that you can't do it but you've got to do something you've got to make some sort of contact just to like pull him back just to put him off I was I was quite stunned by this one I thought it was like that is a dive that's a dive and it's not a penalty I mean anyone else there was lots of people I was in there on the editing yesterday and a lot of people were like letter of the law pulled his shirt probably is a penalty but then a lot of people making the point that it's very similar to Mark Grahi on Salah a few weeks ago not quite in the box so not a red card I don't know where did we stand on the Lacroix Cunha I mean I I would rather that wasn't a penalty wasn't a foul a penalty and particularly because it's a red card it's not a red card it should never be there's no that should not be the word of a red card.

45:33Yeah, I've got to say I was very disappointed in my mate Harry Maguire steaming into the referee asking for not only the penalty and a red card as well and for his play acting when he didn't get kicked in the face. He's gone down in estimations, has he? He's upset me a lot, yeah. I mean, I've really been pushing the Harry Maguire to the World Cup campaign for a long time and he's not completely discarded it but he's really, you know, dented his cause, I've got to say. But anyway, that's a personal thing. It's just another example of VAR just giving us another opportunity to make a really subjective decision and there's not really a right or wrong decision to it.

46:02and we're just wasted a lot of time and someone's been sent off for something that wasn't that much. You must have been delighted then to read Martin Ziegler on the Times website this weekend talking about VAR, confirmed that they will rule on second yellow cards in the Premier League next season. The rule will also come into force for the World Cup. Other changes will include a crackdown on players who cover their mouths when talking after high-profile racism accusations in the last week. Lots of other mentions in there. Like any of these new rules, Gregor?

46:29I think the subs is okay. 10 seconds for a sub coming on or off the discretionary countdown for the throw-ins feels like five second countdown for goal kicks and throw-ins feels really because it's up to the ref when to sort of initiate that and so you know if someone's running from one side of the pitch over to the other side to take a long throw-in like when does that start when does the ref believe it's going to be there's time wasting happening like I feel like leaving that to the referee rather than having it black and white almost makes it redundant and hardly ever be used that's what my instinct is the two most interesting things are Pierluigi Kalina suggesting that there's going to be a trial for a challenge system like that would be infinitely better than what we have still, not what I want but that would be better than what we have so that's interesting that they're at least thinking about that and then Wenger's off site is just, I think it's absolute madness.

47:31I know our colleague Martin Samuel thinks it's a good idea, but I just think when you think about it, the leap, the scale of the leap that would be in favour of an attacker would almost... So just explain it. Sorry for listeners who maybe don't know. So at the moment, obviously, you have to be in line. Attacker has to be in line with the last defender to be on site. Under Wenger's proposal, there has to be daylight. So in theory, you could have an attacker's trailing leg or trailing toe in a stride being in line with the defender's forward stride. Static defender. So we're talking about six feet maybe.

48:13So from being level to an advantage of six feet. I think that essentially wipes out of the offside law. You can't play offside when there's potentially a six foot difference. the defenders will just drop deeper and deeper and deeper. Even more low blocks. Exactly. You'll have more long balls into the box. Yeah. Pressing will disappear. Yeah. It's insane. So the only kind of saving grace is it's been trialled in Canada. We go against Canada. Yeah. Well, you can deal with the shambles and we'll all look at it and go, told you so. Yeah. I hope that's what happens. If it doesn't, we're in trouble.

48:52Sorry, Canada, if you're watching or listening to us, but it's nothing personal, but just hoping Greg is hoping you can get it sorted for us before it comes over here I mean we're talking about this and we didn't even mention it with the Arsenal Chelsea thing as well with the goals and all the people in the box and things anyone like football anymore? We do still like football don't we? Love football but there are a lot of things that are testing here We've just been talking about how one two fingers on someone's shoulder results in us sending off on a penalty and yet in that Arsenal Chelsea game there was so much physicality, so much hauling to the floor, so much elbowing in the face, so much grappling, all of which was allowed to go.

49:35It makes no sense. The tiniest touch is punished really quite draconianly. And then something that's quite obviously wrong is just overlooked because it's happening at a set piece. I don't know how the game has evolved to that point. Does it spoil it? Because you guys go to lots of games, you sit in the press box, you're obviously looking for narratives as well, but you are watching the game. You know, it's a privileged position to be in. Does it spoil the spectacle for you? You know, Alison, you've done this job a long time. Are you going to games going, I'm just not, I'm not enjoying this as much as I used to in terms of the spectacle, watching football?

50:12No, no, I genuinely still feel privileged to do what I do. But when it comes to a corner kick, I can't see it all. My brain won't compute that I'm seeing what looks like multiple fouls, all of which allowed to go. Is it because it's Arsenal? Is it because referees just can't see it and VAR can't cope with it? Well, VAR is part of that because VAR only penalises for the penalty. So in a way, the defensive team are the ones who are... VAR is looking for the defenders to see if they are fouling. But in terms of the attackers, VAR is not going to intervene if someone barges over the defender, right?

50:53So in a way, the attackers have the advantage there because they can take the risk. I mean, to me, I mean, I watch Tottenham a lot. So in a way, the game has gone this season. But I mean, I see people sort of say, you know, he's changed the rules and let the game sort it out. Trust that the game will evolve because it will. Already, you know, you have City signing Donnarumma, for example. the game at the moment is packed with centre-halves who were sort of, you know, been brought in because they were good footballers which was the thing five years ago or two or three years ago even to play the ball out in the back.

51:26Trust now that big clubs are going to bring in big centre-halves who can defend properly you know, defend the air and defend the six-yard box goalkeepers as well. Don't start worrying about telling the referees that they need to kind of penalise more fouls or I don't like Alisson's idea of three I mean, good to watch but 3v3 in the box, you know like No, Alisson's was 2v2 it was a listener who got in touch with Greg I'd say 3v3 I mean, yeah It would be interesting, but I think just generally let the cycle happen and it will. I know I keep banging on it, but VAR is part of the cause of this too.

51:56If you're looking for perfection or you're looking for regulations that will try and take the game in the direction you want it, then VAR is a big part of that. I mean, I'll come back to the offside. If there's this daylight offside, how does a linesman without VAR see an offside? In 1990, that's when it became level used to have to be before the attack used to have to be before the last defender 1990 became level that made it really easy for a linesman to look I say really easy made a difficult job doable you look along the line and you see if a part of the body is sticking out that part of the body can score with is in front now you've got to try and see if there's like a crossover of two feet or whatever so the point the great joy of football has always been that it was really simple and that you know people playing it on grassroots are playing by the same rules as people you're watching millions of people are watching in the Premier League around the world that will no longer be the case like you can't you can't officiate without VAR with some of these even the countdown and stuff like someone made the point at the press conference I've had press conference in grassroots football what if I put a ball out and it lands in a river like you've got to get the ball back quickly and stuff you know it's just overcomplicating things the other thing that is always forgotten is that referees already have a power they have the yellow card they have the red card they can award a foul or a penalty like just empower them to do it if you feel it's necessary why don't Greg with defenders I'm wondering the massive advantage obviously with the corners is that the attacking team have the run that they can get higher because they're running towards the goal why don't defenders almost kind of give up the wrestling and drop off and maybe you have two kind of runners who start on the goal line and therefore they are attacking the ball and they have the run up as well.

53:49Like why wouldn't you have two runners who basically are not kind of stationary men, they're also attacking the ball from a run? Do you know what I mean? Like it feels to me like you're always surrendering the advantage to the attackers because they're running at the ball. Where would you have them though? Like off the pitch? No, but like just next to the post maybe? I'm not being daft, I'm saying that. In order to get the run, you then have that kind of mad New Zealand sport though, run it straight where you're just running into each other and then how do you try and officiate a penalty for that one when you've both battered into each other and also you say that goalkeepers try and run out of the six yard box somebody blocks them like it's not easy if you're you're not you're essentially the one that's reactive yeah not you know you're not you've got to wait to see where the flight of the ball is you've got to yeah you know the attacking team is always the one who has the advantage a typically big broad sprawling debate on VAR and it will not be the last time this season I'm sure let's wrap it up with a talk about the bottom and then the Champions League places is a brilliant win for Wolves on Friday night against Aston Villa.

54:45I really enjoyed. Happy with the celebrations after this one, Gregor, after the tough season they've got? Yeah, Rob Bedrock's done a good job. He is, quietly, but it's too late, right? Just checking. 13 points, too far behind. They are playing the best of all the relegations. It's mad, isn't it? They really are. They're playing really good stuff and you're like, ah, this really works. Quite remarkable. And the atmosphere is great there. They could be forgiven for being a bit meh and not turning up. Absolutely, yeah. They're in force and they sound happy. It's phenomenal. Really, really interesting.

55:14I mean, Burnley, this really was the kind of moment for Scott Parker, wasn't it? Where you sensed that they were going to turn it around. Because he had a win and a draw before this. But do you think they're too short now? Wolves on 13 points, I should say. Burnley 19. And then you've got West Ham 25. They were beaten at Liverpool. Nottingham Forest losing at Brighton on 27. Then Tottenham 29. Leeds as well, losing against Manchester City in 15th on 31. Then there's that little gap to Crystal Palace. are we saying that Burnley Wolves and then it's four into one kind of place? I think so, yeah.

55:43Six points is a lot at this point in the season for teams who have, you know, and that's almost a third of what Burnley amassed all season. So I think they're gone. I think it's one between those four leads, Tottenham Forest and West Ham. They've all got problems. West Ham are arguably maybe playing the best. I mean, Nuno came out after the game and sort of did the anti-Tudor and sort of told everyone how well they were playing and maybe that works. Spurs have got the best fixtures, I think. Forrest, Gregor, you worried about Forrest? I mean, I know they've made another change. Get the fifth manager in before the end of the season.

56:18God, no. I mean, he had a really good impact against Fenerbahce. They were really good against Liverpool. Don't know how they didn't at least draw that game. Should have won it, really. And then he's saying after this game that he feels that because they had the return leg against Fenerbahce, feels the team they're a bit fatigued and you just come back to goals it's like they're they're just really you know Chris Wood scored 20 goals for them last season and they don't have this season I think Gibbs White is the top scorer of a seven I think only Wolves have scored fewer goals so like that's a big issue for them I still he is the opposite to Tudor he's kind of been positive vibes man and I feel like he'll still be able to try and continue that for a laugh then pick 18th pick who teams pick who finished 18th West Ham I'm going to say Tottenham just for a laugh don't hold it against me Tottenham fans given how eccentrically Forrest are run I predict there'll be a manager for the home games a manager for the UA games and a manager for the European games but will they finish in 18th that's the question I suspect they might but they might it's good news for West Ham fans this.

57:35I think, I agree with Tom, I think West Ham are playing the better, they're in the better zone in terms of coming together as a team and having a trajectory. So you're going Forest? So, I think if it's not West Ham, I think it'll be Spurs because they're the opposite of West Ham at the moment. Their trajectory is going down. Gregor? I think, I feel Spurs could. Go down. I really feel they could. it was so much rest on who comes back like from injury and when because you look at the team and you look at what's you're talking about yeah you put in Taylor and Richarlison they started a lot of games and like looked just as anonymous as the people they'd be replacing yeah like I don't see where the improvement is there it comes down to the fans because both West Ham and Spurs have awful stadiums in terms of what those stadiums do to the team and West Ham have had protests organised throughout the whole season.

58:33If they put that on hold and give the team raucous support, they will give West Ham the edge because Spurs fans are incapable when it goes badly wrong of remembering that they're part of the story. Same difficult question to finish then around the Champions League places. Another good win for Manchester United, as much as I'm upset about Harry Maguire. Liverpool with a win against West Ham, as I mentioned. They all play each other before the end of the season. Manchester United currently in third. Manchester United are in third. Continuing the brilliant form under Michael Carrick, Aston Villa that slip at Wolves then Liverpool then Chelsea two places four teams who finishes third and fourth I'm going to say Manchester United and Liverpool I probably agree with that I think Villa are slipping and the injuries and they just look fatigued and it won't be a bad season if they finish fifth that's not a bad season it'll be a weird season though it started terribly we're in the title race I had them in the title race at Christmas and finishing not good either I think you're right I think United look like it's got momentum they're just yeah I think they'll get third and I think Liverpool probably and then Chelsea that's logical it's hard to argue against that and also Man United have nothing else to do but finish third straight shot one game a week it's a shame they're not a bit closer to Arsenal they might make things interesting at the top bit of logic to finish a game podcast episode Alison a wonderful thing Alison Rudd Tom Olnott and Gregor Robertson thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening me and Gregor will be back with an EFL Extra show and we'll be back with the regular show on Thursday we'll see you then

1:00:07This is The Business. A new weekly podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times. With me, Hannah Previtt, The Sunday Times Associate Business Editor. And me, Dominic O 'Connell from Times Radio. From boom to bust, the business tells you the inside story. From the high street to the boardroom, we'll bring you unparalleled insights. We'll talk to unicorns, market movers and city CEOs. Join us every Thursday. Search for The Business from The Times on your podcast app. You're the business. No, Heather, you're the business. No. This is the business. The Business is sponsored by PwC.