EFL Extra: Is ‘fancy’ football finished in the EFL?

0:04Hello and welcome to the game football podcast from the Times. This is our EFL Extra show every two weeks you've got me, Tom Clark, and the former Football League defender, Gregor Robertson, looking at the highs and lows of the Championship League 1 and League 2. Gregor, we are back. I said two weeks in that intro, but it's actually been three because I had a little holiday. I've got to say, I was quite sad that you didn't do an EFL show just on your own. I thought you might just sit, you know, get the microphone out, get producer Neil involved. Just ask yourself a few questions. Just ramble on.

0:36I think it's doable, you know. There's always enough going on that I could have just waffled for it. I'd back you all the way. You're lovely little Scottish. It'd be good for like insomniacs, maybe. Just you whittling on about the football league. Anyway, something to consider next time I take a little break. Now, I said highs and lows in that intro. It doesn't get any higher than Coventry City. Top of the championship. What a run they've been on. Unbeaten in the league. Played 9-1-5. Drawn 4. Last three results just for listeners who, you know, I like to think we cater for some listeners who just dip in and out of the Football League every now and again Gregor so for listeners who may be not been paying full attention Coventry's last three results 3-0 win against Birmingham 4-0 win at Millwall and a 5-0 win against Sheffield Wednesday on Saturday Gregor you've said on the show already this season that you thought they'd challenge but I'm not sure either of us or maybe even any Coventry fans thought it would be this good God no I mean yeah I think I was thinking back to that I think in the previews where we were kind of talking about obviously after last season reaching the playoffs Lampard have done an amazing job I was kind of I still remember saying they were like they were one of the best of the rest outside the parachute payment clubs because they have they have not really hit their stride yet or perhaps in a few in a couple of cases don't look like they're gonna they've got a real shot they've got a real shot this season because their firepower is just better than anyone else in the division 27 goals an average of 3 goals a game and no other team has scored more than 15 they have like look at some of the stats like about 100 more touches in the opposition's box than any other team as well like it's not just smash and grab even if you look at their XG it's like 20, 22 and a half so they're fired a little bit hot because there's been some great goals in there but they're also just creating chance after chance after chance and also they've had four clean sheets in a row so I think it's the second best defensive record in the league so they're at both ends they're absolutely outstanding and it's worth pointing out too that this is the team that really hasn't changed that much you know we talk every summer we do the previews and you're thinking who has everyone signed who is this guy going to be a game changer they really haven't signed a game changer Keane Kesley Hayden from Aston Villa right back right wing back was about the biggest outlay a couple million a few million maybe single left back from Granada though he's only played a handful of games Carl Rushworth goalkeeper from Brighton alone and Luke Wolfenden the centre half from Upswich that's it and Grimes came in January Grimes came in January and he's been a brilliant brilliant signing yeah the control he exhibits a sort of really interesting interview from him last week or the week before he was kind of saying that he feels now Lampard gives them the perfect balance of detail and freedom and like you know we're talking about Johnny Northcrawler wrote a fascinating piece recently about managers who are kind of micromanaging even their best players, their most sort of talented freewheeling talents to within an inch of their lives and so I think he's probably right there you see a kind of structure in Coventry's play but there's also when they're getting the ball forward quite quickly, they're not like a team that's playing expansive football and are committed to a certain way of playing And, you know, come what may, they're playing pretty effective football.

4:07If you look at a lot of their goals, they've been quite direct, balls into the box. Yeah. It's quite simple, isn't it? And I say that as a compliment, not as a criticism. You know, as a fan of a club in the Football League, like when you go and watch games, you want your team to create chances to score and ultimately to look like you're winning the game. And they always look like they're in with a chance. You know, they were very, very unlucky to lose to Sunderland in the playoffs last season. and you know I was watching those games and I was thinking this is great but it's quite simple you know balls out wide crosses into the box and as you said earlier with that touches in the box a lot of their goals when you're watching the highlights whether it's Hadji Wright or Thomas Asante they're not the only person in the box there's a couple of players around them so if there's a shot blocked or a shot saved there's rebounds there's opportunities there and I say it with full praise for Lampard I'm not saying it to be you know dismissive at all but it's quite simple but it's incredibly effective Yeah and you see like balls that widen cross into the box, it's often you know it's not just giving the ball to a wide man it may be a little combination from defence that get from back to front very quickly so you know there are players as well who have kind of taken a step on, Sandy Thomas has kind of not really hit his full stride at Coventry I think there was even possibility, you know a chance of him moving on I think in the summer but he's not and he's been outstanding Ellis Sims is another one who's not who hasn't really but he's coming on and scoring goals, Haddie Wright is one of the best strikers in the league then you put Efrem Mason-Clark, he went Sakamoto Jack Redoni who's injured unfortunately now but so many attack minded goal threats in the team But even that, like you're going through him there and I was thinking about looking through the squad as well you know you've got Bobby Thomas in defence who from reading a lot of the reports and things has been absolutely excellent at the back and you mentioned Carl Rushworth there he was on loan at Lincoln a few seasons ago he's one of those kind of modern players at a club like Brighton who has been on loan all the way through the pyramid and has gradually worked his way up and is now goalkeeper at the top of the championship but none of these players are like either in the category of like big signings you know we've talked in the summer about like Ipswich and people spending tens of millions of pounds on players and they're not in the category of like 19 year old on loan from Arsenal or Man City or something you know these guys are 27 25 players that you know Asante Thomas as you say Salford then West Brom Hadji Wright he's 27 one of the best strikers in the league yes but never talked about as like whoa wow Hadji Wright is going to blow it up this season type thing.

6:48That's to me as well is what's fascinating in line with what you said earlier about the team's not changed that much. The manager's the same. They had a great season last season. The continuity can be key sometimes. Yeah, I mean they've always actually, Coventry have always kind of landed on that kind of sweet spot actually in terms of their recruitment and they have kind of delved into the loan market and you know Eddie Vivash when he was there with Mark Robbins he had good connections with Chelsea and often he would get get kind of first dibs on some of their best talents in the academy but then when it came to it they would they would back Mark Robbins and they would someone like Sims I think he cost like maybe 6 million I think from Everton so like they would pay a lot of money for someone who would think it could be a game changer and look at Giocares he was although that was I think he was 1.5 million that was still a lot of money for Coventry and that stage and their sort of recovery they were at then so but they have as I say so they've had those kind of young players who are trying to make a name for themselves and a bit of experience but I think it's kind of been accumulation over a number of seasons now that they've been doing recruiting really well and Lampard has benefited from that like unquestionably but he's also put his own spin on things they're more it's easy to say they're more kind of attack minded but I think it's true I think I think Mark Robbins had a really effective team and he had a lot of power behind him because of where he'd taken the club from but Lampard's put his own spin in it now and like you know the job he's done is incredible it's been incredible because you have to remember the attitude that most of the people kind of most of the Coventry fans sort of welcomed him with if you can call it that and let's be honest the attitude we welcomed him with as well and a lot of people in the media going Frank Lampard from Mark Robbins.

8:45This is an absolute joke. It's never going to work. You know, owners thinking that the superstar names are what's going to happen. I mean, it's been absolutely phenomenal what he's managed to achieve so far, but it's whether they can keep it going. Do you think, you know, that's where I wonder whether he is maybe important in terms of, I've said this before on this podcast, clearly one of the things he does is create a positive dressing room, a positive atmosphere. And with a player, you know, a playing career of his standing, the players are going to follow him and listen to him. do you think that squad the players that we talked about are good enough to keep them and keep this run going I'm not suggesting that they keep winning every game 4-0 between now and end of the season but can they keep this going and punch their way into that category that you mentioned earlier of proper automatic contenders or do you see them dropping a bit further back down into that best of the rest that you maybe highlighted in the summer No I think they could well be automatic promotion contenders and I go back to and I'll say it again part of that is because we see Leicester kind of starting to pick up ahead of steam but they've still got a big question mark hanging over them about potential points deduction this is possibly more than one Epps which has started to start to get rolling a bit too but there's still question marks there and Southampton not impressing at all yet so that's a big change compared to recent seasons but also their firepower is extraordinary it's not just because they scored this number of goals they have a lot of strength and depth in attacking areas you would have questioned that a bit defensively but you mentioned Thomas Kitching has been brilliant as well Van Uick, the fact that he stayed was really important and still got Wolfenden Jake Bidwell is really experienced to come in there they have a pretty solid squad and that continuity I think has been after last year's experience because we spoke about it before they were the better team in the playoffs against Sunderland they were it must have been absolutely devastating the manner of that kind of conceding that goal right at the very death before penalties and there was a mistake in the first leg as well wasn't there to give Sunderland a goal as well yeah so I know it kind of feels like Brent Lampard's been able to harness the pain of that and say to the Tatev players let's go one better this season and they're certainly on track to that yeah they've also got a key thing for me this season Gregor an absolutely mental away kit have you seen this pink fuchsia kit it looks like they honestly look like one of those pink highlighter pens I absolutely love it I'm here for it as I've already said on this podcast this season more bonkers away kits needed in modern football Gregor you've mentioned some teams there below Coventry in the championship table you've got Middlesbrough still doing very well and Leicester in third but Gregor let's talk about the team in fourth who've gone five unbeaten in September and potentially a bit like Coventry something we perhaps wouldn't have expected it's Preston Yeah I mean very much unexpected look the season's quite early but they've been very impressive they're great defensively like as Paul Heckenbottom as a manager who I rate very highly I think the job he did at Sheffield United was vastly underrated and he was given an absolute hand grenade in the Premier League when he went up with Sheffield United and they've got a good blend going on as well they've made a few signings like Alfie Devine alone from Spurs scored an absolute screamer against Derby a couple of weeks ago Daniel Jebbesson alone from Bournemouth he scored at the weekend as well Lewis Dobbin alone from Villa actually these are guys who although they're thought of really highly at their clubs they've had a few loans in the Championship already and they've not necessarily gone very well so maybe Preston's like maybe one of the only clubs at this level that would take them on loan at this point so they've got a point to prove and I think they're doing it well and I think plus they've got a kind of a core of like solid pretty unfashionable sort of championship players who've been effective for Preston kind of either keeping them in division or like occasionally flirting with the playoffs in recent years Ben Whiteman for example I think is really good I remember watching him at Doncaster a good few years ago I think he's a really really good midfielder but yeah it's been it's been a very unexpected start Just on that as well I was looking they've got Jordan Story and Andrew Hughes I think who've been there for eight seasons which is like I mean basically unheard of in modern football I think like that's absolutely phenomenal consistency and maybe to the theme we were talking about with Coventry as well consistency and continuity no bad thing Yeah I mean Whiteman's been there I think since 2021 as well so that's it's there are as I say there are a few players who've kind of Preston have had a pretty up and down up and down time of it remember that kind of that ridiculous start under Ryan Lowe not so long ago and then they they tumbled away there had a period under Alex Neil where they were looking like they might get crashed the playoffs and kind of fell away as well so you know one of the kind of great underachievers in English football but it's kind of built on sort of defensive solidity I think they've been brilliant in the back they've only conceded seven goals which is the same as Coventry back three you know real solidity and also Iverson and goal has been outstanding I think he's kind of won them a lot of points already so but it was it was also quite a kind of spiky one at the weekend 2-0 defeat at Charlton and Thierry Small scoring against his former club left him on a free in the summer and he really celebrated it he really enjoyed it yeah it was one that I think he was getting booed by the Charlton fans and he kind of he gave it bad to them afterwards so that was that was that was a kind of an interesting part of the weekend but yeah I like really unsurprising there's really surprising sorry it's not there's no way anyone saw this coming and if you look at the underlying numbers I wouldn't if I was a Preston fan I wouldn't get too carried away about their attack they can have attack and output in particular but very very positive start Yeah below Preston you've got Stoke a great start for them but now four games without a win and then the surprise package Gregor I would say we've talked about some surprises already but this one is the one for me since losing 7-1 to Coventry this team have now won four and drawn two, including beating Stoke, QPR, up into six.

15:38Now, interestingly, just before we hear from what you got to say about them, I did hear from a QPR fan after our preview show. Paul Miller got in touch, quite rightly actually, and said, hey, where's the mention of QPR? Because we literally, in the preview show, mentioned them for about three seconds. I think I said, oh, and I'm not sure about QPR, because no one was sure about QPR, I don't think. Made some good signings, Richard Coney coming in from Wickham, but in a manager in Julian Stephan, perhaps that kind of slight, not quite Regis Le Brice territory, but a little bit of like, who the hell is this guy at football league level?

16:16But a really interesting background. He was interim manager at Round in France, but then won the first trophy for them in 45 years, beating PSG on penalties in the French Cup in 2019 was then at Strasbourg and then back to Rennes and then ends up at QPR and as I say has that terrible result 7-1 against Coventry early in the season but now on a brilliant run Yeah I mean and that was one of five games in all competitions that they failed to get a win in at the start of the season it wasn't just a one-off they started really really badly and then beating Charlton Wrexham Stoke as you say draws to Sheffield Wednesday in Oxford and they could have won both of them really and then beat Bristol City the weekend Kony getting his fourth goal I think it is since his move which came quite we should say it came quite it came like mid-August so you know getting him in the team and assimilated and up to speed was being big for them he scored a great goal against Wrexham a couple of weeks ago he's a like hugely impactful kind of physical he's still only 22 yeah he's still only 22 I mean are we do we think we're in Ivan Toney Oli Watkins Premier League territory here it's possible it's possible I mean he's not refined is he but neither was Ivan Toney you know Oli Watkins was a bit more he could he could see like a kind of classy striker or wide forward in there but it's the impact and Toney's the same it's kind of the way he could back into players and he's physical and he's great in the air and he kind of he's just always on the spot as well he had that goal score in touch and Coney has had it for ever since he got on the team at Wickham so yeah it's been a big sign for them but they've always QPR another reason why they speak about them is they've kind of felt like they've been a bit stuck for a number of years now they've not not really they've flirted with relegation a couple of times but you never felt they were going to go down like they've always got exciting attacking players like Elias Chair is still there but you know I think he's injured just now but they've still got he signed Kwame Poku from Peterborough in the summer he was injured did his hammy quite early on I think in one of the maybe first or second game Karamoko Dembele was like a prodigy at Celtic Koki Saito Japanese winger who kind of threatened to be brilliant last season at times and then came back this season and I think there's more to come from him as well that's always been the case Ruman Borel as well who had a ridiculous rise from like Cove Rangers to Burton Albion to QPR in the space of 12 months so there's a bit of uncertainty about how much how well all these guys will do Kony seemed actually the biggest certainty out of them all and then there's as you say the uncertainty about Julian Stephans he obviously got a rude awakening to the Championship but as you say the good things with Wren he took them into the Champions League actually I think he finished third that season it was curtailed by Covid but you know he's obviously no mug but I still don't know what they're going to do honestly they're running a bit hot now like I think if you look at their numbers as well they've got a decent attacking sort of output as you know I've gone through some of the talent they have at their disposal like you've used to see why but in every other aspect they look like a bottom half team like defensively in a build up play well I should just say finished 15th last season yeah Paul Miller who did get in touch and quite rightly pointed out why we didn't mention him on the previous show but he did then follow up and say I want to know what you and Gregor think because he said after the preview show that he saw a potential flirtation with relegation, though I think there are three or five worse teams he said very optimistically.

19:59So listen it's not just us who are unsure about what QPR are all about. But great turnarounds. But Paul, amazing turnarounds. You know, that looked like the first sack end of the season and he turned it around to be in the playoffs now, so yeah, great going into the national break with that kind of turnaround. Yeah, QPR fans, you've got a lot of hot takes from Gregor Robertson on this show but he needs a bit of help with working out where you're going to be at this season so do get in touch with me tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk Craig, Gregor other teams to mention other news stories to mention in the Championship that you want to bring up?

20:31Although it's not happened at the time of recording looks like Paul Pizzolano the Watford manager could be heading for the exit which would be Hang on Watford sacking a manager sure like what? The 15th manager sat by Watford in the last 10 years if it happens I read a stat somewhere that only AD Boothroyd has reached 100 games he's the last manager to reach 100 games anyway they've actually turned it around a little bit I think they've got 5 points from the first 6 games in the championship but they've taken 7 from the last 3 and they're actually 3 points off the playoffs so it feels like something that was maybe in motion already and he surprised them in all this couple of weeks so we'll see whether that goes on whether that happens or not who else?

21:20I think Ipswich as I said have started to kind of turn the corner and largely fired by Jadon Philogene he just keeps scoring absolute worldies absolute bangers did you see there was a great thing showed of someone had done a screenshot of Ashley Young on the bench reacting to his goal at the weekend and he's just Ashley Young is like he looks like the screen you know mouth open eyes bulging like what is that? there's some absolute crackers from Jadon Philogene and make sure you go and check them out. But in the same way, Greg, are you talking earlier about some of the big teams that maybe we expected big things from?

21:54Ipswich getting that big win against their local rivals Norwich, who are having a bit of a stinker of a time at the minute, in 19th, with only eight points from their nine games. Just another two teams just above them who I wanted to mention, Wrexham and Birmingham, gave them the big sell in the preview show. I even made the call that I thought Birmingham might be up there competing for a promotion. They're currently sat in 16th for Birmingham and 18th for Wrexham. after a one-all draw on Friday night. Interesting to read the Times football newsletter from our young reporter, Joe Harston, who was there, saying that the night had a bit of a feel of like, ah, the old Hollywood bubble has slightly burst.

22:29It's not as easy as you thought it would be in the championship, lads. Yeah, kind of storm passing through. It was like one of those nights you have to dig in in the championship as opposed to one that you want the Hollywood owners in town and the cameras rolling in. So, yeah, I mean, Birmingham the pressure shouldn't be on Chris Davies but you know the scale of their ambition is such that it's going to come around any time they fail to get a few results in a row they've only scored I think 8 goals which after last season is a big slump you know because of the enormous success of last season it's easy for records to kind of appear from nowhere like the first time he's lost you know not one in three games or something like that you know like yeah and then Wrexham as well their sort of defensive resolve the thing that's that's driven them through the leagues is has abandoned them they they've conceded 15 goals which is not a Phil Parkinson team and then you know they don't have enough going the other way to they kind of compensate for that so yeah they're both they're both finding this step a lot bigger than any of the others um I'm telling you come Christmas time we're going to see it that tweet with that corner flag you know that statement thanks for everything always a club legend I'm telling you it's coming I'm not sure whether it's coming for both of them or either for just one of them it's coming for one of these teams it shouldn't be it will it's our ambition mate that's where it happens that's where the Hollywood comes from you know you interviewed Tom Wagner the Birmingham Chief Executive who was in the stands as well this was mentioned in Joe Harston's chairman sorry chairman interesting videos of him circulating on social media of him doing a bit of a kind of more measured version of Delia Smith, Let's Be Having You, but saying to the fans, come on, we need to get behind the team.

24:21The cynic in me would say, oh, this is a good bit of PR for the Birmingham Mission. Good content for their documentaries as well. That's always the other thing. Good content for their documentary. I'm glad you said it, not me. But these guys, they want to be near the top of the table, don't they? I mean, I agree with you. I'm not wishing that Parkinson or Davies get sacked, but that's what these owners want. They want to be near the top of the championship because ultimately, they want to be in the Premier League. Yeah, I mean, Wagner's interview was interesting too in that he was kind of saying, unequivocally, we are behind Chris Davies.

24:57Completely put that to bed. But then he also said, when he was asked about, are you realising maybe this is going to have to be a season of consolidation? He's like, no, no, no. We've got to spend them. As he told me in that interview, he really is a numbers guy. he connects the financial power and might of any team with where they should stand in the league and Birmingham have the same kind of financial the same revenue figures as high as anyone in the league because of all the things we've spoken about Tom Brady and his global appeal and the documentary and huge commercial kind of sponsorship deals they've got, they're earning the same amount of money as parachute payment teams because of all that.

25:41So he thinks, why should we not be competing with them? And in some respects, he has a point, but football is not that straightforward. I'm telling you, there's a January transfer window coming up. There's a lot of potential changes that could be happening in the Championship. We've covered a lot of teams there, but a lot of teams missed out. If you've got a question for Gregor for next time on the EFL show, do get in touch with me, tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk. Gregor, we'd take a little break, but I have got just a little quiz question for you to ease us through into part two of the show when we're going to be talking about League One and League Two and League One is where the quiz question comes from.

26:15Which League One side has won in each of the last three games in which they have received a red card? Find out after the break.

26:34Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. This is our EFL Extra Show with me, Tom Clark, and the former football league legend, Gregor Robertson, talking about the championship, League One and League Two. We're into League One with the quiz question. And the reason he's a legend is not because he was any good at football, but because he's very good at quiz questions. Gregor, the answer to the question, which was, which League One side has won each time they've had a man sent off in the last three games? Answer was? Stalkport County. Stockport County. Yes, that's right. The last three times they've received a red card, they've still managed to win, including at Huddersfield at the weekend, getting a 2-1 win, important for their promotion hopes.

27:19It's not the action on the pitch, though, that we're going to start with in League One because the international break strikes again. Got a little break. Yes, the international break, listeners, does go down all the way into League One. Quite a few games called off this weekend due to international call-ups. and we've got two managers sacked already. Blackpool sacking Steve Bruce on Sunday after a 2-0 home defeat against Wimbledon which put the team's second bottom in the league. And then Luton sacking Matt Bloomfield on Monday just nine months in charge for him after he made his move from Wickham at the end of last season.

27:53Saturday's defeat to tabletopping Stevenage though meant that he got the chop as well, Gregor. I mean, I'd say Steve Bruce, not a massive surprise. Matt Bloomfield may be slightly surprising but you know Luton they want to get back in the championship it's a roofless business out there yeah and actually 10 days ago Gary Sweet the CEO said that Luton would have no qualms about replacing Matt Bloomfield which was quite a little bit harsh it's never a good sign no it's never a good sign normally normally you get owners going yeah back in all the way and then get sacked this time it was like yeah you're out yeah no he was applying the pressure and Bloomfield was asked about it and he kind of said it's fair enough that's the business we're in they're actually although they're 11th they're one win off 6th like it's very tight but that's always the case in League 1 I know that's always the case until like April the 20th that's what League 1's like you can be 18th and still in the promotion hunt in about February but I mean I was going to start with Blackpool but we've ended up talking about Luton so let's focus on them I mean it it I saw them play because they played Lincoln a couple of weeks ago and we beat them 3-1 and I was on the way from London to the game so obviously ended up on a train with a lot of Luton fans who were chatting amongst themselves and things it's always interesting to hear them talking and one thing that struck me that was quite interesting was that how many of them were not I wouldn't say harking back to because that's maybe slightly harsh because they're you know all football fans are realists as well as you know hopeful optimists but a lot of them were still talking about our last season and you know that player that we had in the Premier League and you know we're just missing that experience and stuff and you wonder whether because of the dramatic fall they're still feeling it a little bit maybe and it did look a little bit on the they didn't look like they had much of an identity on the pitch you know I was thinking you know Lincoln we have a certain style of playing Luton big team you know better bigger budget than us probably like just come down from the championship we were comfortably the better team so much so that we were 1-0 up had loads of chances to kill the game Luton scored and got an equaliser and me and my dad ever the pessimists are going oh god we're going to lose this 2-1 now we went and won 3-1 and we're walking out the ground going that never happens you never concede an equaliser in like the late 80th minute and then turn around and score two but you know Bloomfield was on the touchline go mental the whole game sent them out after halftime early it just looked like there's just too much there to be done and I just wonder whether there's there's still this slight hangover happening of we were in the Premier League two years ago we were everyone's favourite neutral team you know everyone loved us the story of Luton and it's like back in League One now this is actually quite tough yeah I mean there's there's definitely a legacy of that and we saw it last season and you've got to say Bloomfield did have an effect, it took him it just ultimately took him too long to get to I don't know, for it to actually take place I think they won only Leeds and Burnley won more points than them in the last 10 games of the season and then they had that kind of capitulation against West Brom on the final day, so it was just ultimately too little too late but they've got one of the most heavily stacked squads that there's ever been in League One undoubtedly looking at just the forwards for example they've got Elijah Adebayo Jerry Yates Ali Alhamadi Jacob Brown Naki Wells Milenic Ali who they've paid 1.5 million for Norwegian striker Lassie Nordis who's just not done anything since he arrived last January but of all those Nordas played at the weekend Naki Wells came off the bench the rest of them nowhere to be seen I mean they've got some injuries but like their squad is so stacked and they're just not, he's not ever been able to find the right recipe or the right chemistry or just just to just to kind of make the most of all the tools at his disposal but that's kind of been the case also some of these players are kind of big names but they've not actually been doing it for a long time I feel it comes back to your point if you think a lot of these guys were on the journey from League 1, some of them from League 2 but League 1 to the Premier League and then the extraordinarily sort of emotional I don't know, toll that that would have taken that season and to fall just short and then and after that the adventure's over you know so I think there is a legacy of that but there's also been a lot of turnover and ultimately you look at the squad they have and the squad that Bloomfield had at their disposal and what they've done so far is nowhere near good enough but you know I personally would have still liked to see him getting a bit more time because he's a good guy he did a really good job at Colchester did a great job at Wickham and he felt like a decent fit when he got the job but ultimately Luton Luton after being such a well-run club and going on that extraordinary journey from the National League to the Premier League in the space of a decade are getting a lot of things wrong now and they're scrambling around to try and turn that around I think they're a great example of how tough League One is and I think it's a good point you make about the players that sometimes haven't been doing it.

33:46And I think that a lot when I watch Lincoln play some of these teams that have maybe been higher up the pyramid and I'm saying to my dad, oh, they've got this guy, he used to be at this level. And then you watch them and you think, I wouldn't have picked you out as the best player in this team by a long way. It does require momentum, confidence, the right chemistry, as you said there. It's a very thin line, isn't it, between being Ivan Toney, who we said before, Ollie Watkins who play lower down the pyramid and work their way up and being someone who maybe has a heyday at the top and just because you drop down doesn't mean you're the best player in the league I think it's a very just quickly I had a bio I remember I interviewed him when he was in the Premier League and he'd scored like consecutive games I can't remember how many maybe five or something and there was like talk of him getting a call up for Nigeria and he was like the real man of the moment and now he's injured so like let's give him you know let's cut him some slack but he did nothing last season nothing last season couldn't get in the team a lot of the time and now he's like looking at trying to get in the team when he's fit in League 1 a struggling team that's how that's how quickly things can change in football Yeah very much so and it's really interesting to see who Luton go for with an appointment I'm not going to make any suggestions or names or things like that because I did that on the last EFL show and by the time we published it the team in question had already appointed a manager and I looked rather stupid So we'll just keep it out there in the ether and see who Luton go for.

35:16Let's talk about Blackpool. As I said, they're sacking Steve Bruce on Sunday. As regular listeners will know, producer Neil is a big Blackpool fan, but so dismayed is he by their position of 23rd in League One that he refused to come on the show. No, I'm only joking. But he did tell us before we started recording that it kind of been writing on the wall for a while for Steve Bruce. He said it had been interesting to note that at the start of pre-season, Steve Bruce had had a bit of a Mike Bassett England manager moment of saying we're going to play 4-4-2 this is how we're going to play this is what we're going to do guys nice and old school and it's just not worked I mean I saw Blackpool last season I thought they were one of the best teams I'd seen in League One again it just feels like a fit that maybe unlike Bloomfield who didn't get enough time maybe Bruce had had enough time and it just wasn't working Greg Yeah well it's strange because there was that kind of that period towards the end of last season where you thought they might gatecrash the playoffs yeah and of course you jinxed them in the season preview when you said they were certain for promotion I think hey one thing you can say again this has ultimately been his downfall is that he was blacked they signed 16 players in the summer they have a really good pretty high wage bill now and the defeat by Wimbledon was the 7th 7th and 11 games second from bottom like it's snowing you're good enough so yeah I'm a bit sad for Steve Bruce because I think I would have liked him to see a kind of flourish a late flourish in his career he's 64 I think he's had 13 jobs there was a couple of years out of management after he was sat by West Brom in 2022 but he wanted he missed it he wanted back in and as I say there was like there were signs of promise last year they were one of the best attacking teams in the league I think from open play they created the highest quality of chances in the whole division that's not something you immediately associate with Steve Bruce's team and then he was backed as I say in the summary George Honeyman, decent player for the level Danny Imre flying right back at the Brilliante with Bromley last season Niall Ennis joined permanently after playing well Sonny Carey and Rob Apter they left for Charlton so there was a bit of a blow there it's just not been anywhere near good enough and you look at some of the goals they've been conceded and they've been pretty shambolic it was starting to turn toxic so when that happens there's no way back really and it will be very interesting to see who they turn to next because there are a few people a couple of people who are kind of associated with the club one of them being Ian Evett who's out of work played in that team under Ian Holloway that reached the Premier League many moons ago had a really good managerial career up until the point turned sour at Bolton Wanderers I think he'll be strongly linked and that would be an interest he's got a good squad if he goes there he would have a good squad at his disposal I don't think it would be very hard for a new manager to see an upturn in performances and results quite quickly Yeah, interesting times for Blackpool and their next appointment.

38:33Let's finish the look at League One with talk of, we've said already on this show, what an amazing story so early in the season. I think this team might just trump all the contenders from the Championship. Stevenage, top of League One, eight wins from 10 games. They're top even with a game in hand on the other teams behind them. Some big hitters that we've already mentioned this season, Bradford and Cardiff in second and third. Gregor I mean this is unfathomable almost to me I think you know looking at the teams in League One this season if you'd said to me Stevenage would be top after 10 games I would not have believed you.

39:10God no yeah like last season what we've got to say is last season they had a brilliant defence and they still do and they still play the same way they do. I think actually we said in the previous show if they had Jamie Reid back in the goals a bit more firepower up front then they've got a good pretty solid foundation to build on and that's been the case if you look at the way they play there are only two teams in the whole of the league who see less of the ball, they average 43.8 % position they play the fewest number of accurate passes in the league 182 per game on average Cardiff by contrast by 415 that's the kind of polar opposite side styles of play but they put lots of crosses in the box they defend their box very very well scored 8 goals from non-penalty set plays and they have the best defence in the league still so it's like you looked at the game at the weekend two lovely finishes very clinical finishes by Jem Campbell and Jordan Roberts like just opportunities presented themselves one like beautifully kind of curled into the far corner and it could have possibly been 3-0 because Reid went through and like uncharacteristically slidded it away he slipped the ball wide of the post when he was 1-1 with the goalkeeper could have made it even worse for Luton in that game but again it's another one where if you're someone who looks at the numbers below the line, are they going to keep it going?

40:50Their attacking output is not great but they're a really effective team but it also speaks to that thing of it's too simplistic to link them to Coventry and Preston and some of those things but it does underline the importance of being solid first in the Football League and in all football but in the Football League recently in recent seasons we've talked about the Pep Guardiola way of football working its way down the pyramid and everyone trying to play the ball out from the back and every week you'd see clips on social media from a different organisation that had put out, oh, they've had a shocker and they've tried to play it out from the back and basically passed it into their own goal.

41:31Listen, Lincoln went through that as well. All teams have it. What are you doing? What are you doing? Just get rid. Being solid first and foremost. I was just having a brief flashback there. A few nightmares coming in, listeners. Just get rid. Honestly, the amount of times I hear that at Sinsel Bank. Just get rid. But the point being, if you're solid first, that can go a long way. undoubtedly they've considered 8 goals and there was already a solid foundation there Charlie Goode is a really good centre half to the level so Stan Sweeney was a really good player at Barnett for a long while he's a smart signing I really like Harvey White in midfield as well I think he's a bit of class he's the kind of guy who'll put his foot on the ball and pick out a smart pass it's not all about direct play and getting away and getting crosses in the box and look, Jamie Reid has been all over the place really strange career I had one season when he was really on fire at Stevenage and then last season he kind of fell away a bit I think maybe 8 goals or something but he's the main man and if he's in the goals then they've got a chance so it's not just him No, I mean, Jim Campbell's been really good.

42:53I also think that Dan Kemp is a player who's kind of, he's got that kind of creative spark. He's got a couple of goals and a couple of assists already. But undoubtedly, you come back to it, they're a team that are effective. They're really good at set plays and they're direct. And Alex Ravel has done a really good job because his managerial career kind of started too early almost. he got the job at Stevenage got the sack went to work in the youth team again kind of learned his craft a bit more and then he got another bite of the cherry and he's taken it so yeah long may it continue it's good to see we're going to come on to talk about also in League 2 as well and it's a very similar story so maybe save this but it's good to see teams that are playing in a different way be successful whether they can sustain it yeah yeah absolutely diversity throughout the pyramid.

43:47And as you say there, Gregor, let's talk about League Two because they're back. They're back. Walsall back on top of the League Two table. Regular listeners will know this was a big feature of last season. One of the more tragic stories of the football season last year. Walsall out in front for so long and then fell away from the automatic places, eventually getting beaten in the playoffs. But unbeaten in seven, three wins on the spin. They're back at the top. let's focus on the positives for now Gregor yeah let's continue in the same theme, they're even more extreme we spoke about this last season there was a point midway through last season where they were 15 points ahead at the top of the table and they this season they averaged 35 % position 35 % they played the fewest passes in the league, successful passes 145, they they just let the other team have the ball and they did this last season and no one could no one could like no one could beat them no one could no one could get no one could get like a decent shot at goal the chances the number of chances they gave up were so few and far between that like if they scored one goal they were winning and then it fell apart but this season like it was fascinating to see how Matt Sadler reacted to that not just on like a sort of human level because of the kind of scale of the you know in modern football parlance the bottle job it was like you know like nothing we'd ever seen before so there was that but there's also the way he was going to approach the season and he's very much done the same thing they've got the best defence in the league they've still got the back three back five if you like they put crosses in the box they like they hardly they hardly create any any chances they rank 22nd in the whole league for touches inside the opposition box this is the team that's top of the league this is you know just underline how weird this is and it was weird last season but they couldn't sustain it can they do it this year like can they can they I think they'll be competing again at the top of the league but can they actually you know see it through that's the question because the teams around them are so different like if if you look at the way Grimsby are playing for example like so expansive creating bad folds of chances scoring lots of goals Swindon actually the same under Ian Holloway so again it's this sort of singularity of their approach that is so fascinating and they obviously another part of last season was the fact that they lost Nathan Lowell scored something like 17 goals on loan from Stoke and then they recalled him like that was a huge part of it they've Aaron Presley started really well for them they signed him from Stevenage in the summer son of big burly Scottish centre half of Hearts renowned Stephen Presley scored both goals in this win against Bristol City Bristol Rovers at the weekend four and all Daniel Kanu on loan from Charlton scored three they're not neither like Nathan Lowe but they're they're getting goals which is hugely positive so fascinating I find this fascinating like it's such a because it's also also we should just say for you know as casual listeners that I keep mentioning there are and you mentioned it there with Grimsby this is a real trend of lots of different styles it's not just that the teams at the top of the table are you know harking back to more basic traditions for want of a very naive and simplistic way of phrasing it.

47:15There are also still a lot of teams playing very expansive attacking football and things. It's just that we're seeing a bit of a culture clash in all three divisions. And you could say maybe it's mirrored in the Premier League as well a little bit. Yeah, this is a theme. This is a trend.

47:33It's fascinating in League One and League Two in particular because it just takes a little bit longer for these sort of things to trickle down normally, ordinarily and seeing the way Grimsley play for example you know, Crewe are a club who have this kind of a reputation for playing that same sort of expansive football anyway. M.K. Donson did historically but they won the season under Paul Warren. Gillingham and you know, under Ainsworth we know how they're going to play, they're going to be very direct. So there is a real clash of styles at the top end of the table and then even Chesterfield bubbling away underneath, they're ninth in the table.

48:11They were thrashed at the weekends, but they'll be up there and they play totally buccaneering, freewheeling football under Paul Cook. So for me, it's just that this kind of ultra reactive conservative football is quite rare that it's a success at any level. Like when I say success, I mean actually kind of trophy winning, promotion winning, that kind of thing. Yes, it might keep you in a division, but at any level historically I would say the teams that try and score more goals are the more successful and not the ones who are just trying to keep them out but we might be seeing a bit of a bucking of that trend Listeners you've just been able to witness once again one of those great moments on this podcast where Gregor Robertson talks himself in to a feature that you will read on the Times website in the coming weeks I'll have 1200 words please Gregor by next Wednesday on the change in tactics we are seeing in the Football League.

49:07Greg, I just wanted to quickly mention Colchester, a big win for them at the weekend and for the Cowley brothers. They've been under pressure near the bottom of the league to table Jack Payne getting a hat-trick. And a final shout-out to Bromley forward Michael Cheek, Gregor, who I'll enjoy this stat from the weekend. He's now scored 30 goals in 56 appearances in the Football League. Since the start of last season, only Mo Salah, with 31, has scored more goals than that 30 for Cheek in the top four tiers. So there you go. Last season was his first in the football league. Exactly. Which proves that you should always keep your dreams going.

49:43Gregor Hudson, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you too for listening. As I say, if you've got questions for Gregor, do get in touch with me, tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk and I'll make sure to ask them on the next EFL show, which will be in a couple of weeks' time. And we'll be back with the regular show on Thursday. We'll see you then.

50:06Thank you.