EFL Extra: Outsiders Going Strong

0:04Hello and welcome to the game football podcast from the Times. This is our Football League Extra show every two weeks. You get the former Football League legend Gregor Robertson and me, Tom Clark, discussing the best and worst of the action in the EFL. Gregor, it's one of those jam-packed weeks of loads and loads of live action, including plenty of games in the Championship on Tuesday and Wednesday night. We're recording this on Monday, so the usual caveats. But let's look back at the weekend because the surprise packages, they keep going, particularly Friday night. I mentioned this in my Times football newsletter last week that I was fascinated to watch Middlesbrough against Ipswich to see how that panned out.

0:41Ipswich had been on a great run. They were going up to Middlesbrough, who'd been one of the brilliant early starters. Middlesbrough and Rob Edwards laying down a marker that they ain't going to be moved. Yeah, very much so. The thing with Middlesbrough's season so far is they've got a brilliant defence, one of the best in the division, but it's been balancing defence with attack. And I'd say in this game, they created lots of chances. They looked like a really cohesive attacking unit. Great for Morgan Whitaker to get his first goal for the club. You could see how much that meant to all his teammates.

1:08He'd been a big signing, hadn't he? Big signing from Plymouth, yeah. And it's just not happened for him. He's been a target of one or two sort of jeers from the fans. And that was a big moment. Like I say, you could see how much that meant to his teammates as well. He's obviously a popular member of the dressing room. And there's been quite a lot of change in the summer. So for him to lay down a marker and get his first goal as well is really important. But I think, given the context of the season so far, after a brilliant run and then a little wobble. This was actually probably one of the best performances of the season.

1:42Yeah, absolutely. And also for Ipswich as well, as I said, they'd been on a good run. They had that big win against local rivals Norwich. But in 12th, like nine games gone for them, 10 for lots of other teams. It's not exactly what we, you know, on this podcast in the pre-season, we were saying, oh, well, Ipswich, certain, dead certs to go back up. And listen, they might still be, the championship goes on for a long, long time. But it's not been the ideal start. and perhaps a sign that, as I say, some of these clubs like Middlesbrough have prepped really well in the summer, better than we thought, and that are giving some of the relegated teams from the Premier League a bit more of a surprise than they expected.

2:17Yeah, I mean, they had kind of turned things around. There was, you know, good wins, big win against Sheffield United, Jadon Filagene was banging on the goals, win against Portsmouth, win in the derby against Norwich last time out. And then, yeah, they just, I think Middlesbrough kind of ran all over them in this game, to be honest. They're slightly reliant on Philogene And Jack Clark as well Often stepping up the bench To get a lot of their goals Hurst obviously missed a penalty in this game It's just been kind of There's been actually quite a bit of change to their team They signed Kudus Kind of late on Brought him back to the club After his loan last season I think he's a really good midfielder But it's not quite They've not quite got the balance in midfield Next to Matusua And then Kupru Kind of Bit of a calamitous own goal Leif Davis as well has been interesting Like he still Offers so much getting forward he was one who won the penalty he's such a creative force for them down that left hand side but I remember saying last season when they were promoted that he could be in the England reckoning if he steps up but he couldn't do defensively and there's been some sort of little flashes of that again this season and that was very much the case for the first goal he was beating far too easily just kind of went to the ground and then the cross went in and Kipri couldn't move his feet and a bit of a calamitous own goal so yeah they've not been as good defensively as they were when they were promoted a couple of seasons ago.

3:38With Ciarán McKenna there and the squad, the strength of their squad, I would be surprised if they're not still in the reckoning. Absolutely. A lot of time still to go for Ipswich to get their season on track and in those promotion places. We're talking about Middlesbrough just in front of them in top place. Coventry City, 2-0 win over Blackburn. Gregor, there's almost nothing for us to say about Coventry until they cock it up, until they have a little bit of a blip. But just this one stat from the team at Opta after that win against Blackburn. This win, 2-0, took their goal difference to plus 22.

4:09After 10 games of a second-tier season, this is the best tally since Fulham in 2000-2001 when they had plus 23 after 10 games. That is a sign of how impressive Coventry have been, both at the back and with scoring goals. Well, yeah, at the back, it's five clean sheets now. I think that's the first time in the second tier that they've done that for 25 years. not really seeing any flaws at the moment it will happen it's a long season but we said in previous shows that the kind of the welter of attacking options they have is extraordinary Thomas Asante is having a brilliant season he was away on international duty with Ghana came back great finish with the volley Torp as well is just a goal machine from midfield that's his sixth of the season and as we said the solid foundations at the back they've been brilliant so So as Frank Lampard said in the build-up to this game, a lot of their challenge now is about battle of complacency.

5:08And there's no sign of it so far, but it's a long season. It will come. Yeah, Stoke in third after a 1-0 win against Wrexham. We're going to talk about Wrexham in just a second. A team I wanted to bring in, Gregor, in sixth, Millwall. Another brilliant and bit of a surprise package. They've done it before in previous seasons, flirted with a chance at the playoffs. I wanted to mention as well Mihailo Ivanovic scoring his first championship goal of this season but it's his 11th of 2025 only Josh Sargent with 16 and Hadji Wright at Coventry with 13 have more no player has scored more headed goals in that time than his four goals Ivanovic is only 20 signed from Serbia I like to always bring in fans of these clubs and Sam, my barber, who cuts my hair once a month I'm due in this week actually so I'll ask him how Millwall are getting on but he said this is another example of Millwall's good transfer policy bringing in players of this ilk and he's like Sam was saying he'll be off to Burnley for about 8 million quid in maybe two years time or something 13 in 40 games last season so after a slow start important for him to get off and running in this 2-1 win for Millwall what do we make of Millwall are they another team that can barge their way in?

6:17You're right in saying last season they flirted with Alex Neil I think he's an underrated coach at the level and there has been a bit of a pivot in their transfer policy they get younger players ripe for development and there's also been a bit of a flip in their sort of their sort of historical balance in terms of home and away form usually the Dennings have been a fortress this season their away form has been has been outstanding they're unbeaten their five away games this season it's their best start on the road in a decade and after losing that 4-0 trouncing to Coventry at home I mean in fairness it wasn't a 4-0 game but there's a lot of kind of conceding a lot lot of goals that characteristically Millwall don't a lot of crosses into the box and kind of Coventry played quite direct in that game but they bounced back brilliantly the 3-0 win against West Brom and then this win against a QPR side that were kind of resurgent as well lots of peaks and troughs from various teams but Millwall are like the resources this is the way you always have to frame it the resources are not the same or anywhere near the same level as not just the parachute payment teams but a lot of bigger teams in the division but they're always finding a way certainly since Neil's been there of like managing to compete and be difficult to play against that's what that was his kind of line after the game he says I think we're a very difficult team to play against and that's undoubtedly the case Always stands you in good stead just ahead of Millwall West Brom a big win for them at the weekend 2-1 against Preston Leicester in fourth denied a win by Portsmouth at home with a 1-0 draw Gregor I mentioned Stoke getting that win against Wrexham.

7:57I wanted to then bring in and talk about Wrexham. Wrexham fans, there's no agenda here. I just want you to be clear. There is no agenda here. I promise. I promise. It's nothing to do. It's nothing. There's no agenda. I've got producer Neil nodding at me through the window here going, I'm worried about you, Tom. Stop it. Knock it on its head. But this is another damaging defeat, potentially, for Phil Parkinson, Gregor. Ryan Longman, their player, did the rounds of the highlights on social media this weekend, missing I'd say a difficult open goal coming to me at the back post but it was there it's a good chance it's a good chance when the game was still at 0-0 and it's these fine fine margins that we keep talking about you've just alluded to it there you know we record this show every two weeks things can change all the time but Wrexham they signed so many players so much change in the summer it just isn't clicking for them in the championship no I mean building up to this game they had three draws there was you know a draw against Birmingham a draw against Leicester draw against Derby like on the face of things these are these are decent results and that was on the back of of the 3-2-1 at Norwich with a great kind of celebration on social media of that with a kind of Alan Partridge themed tweet Goal!

9:11But it's the games have all been really fine margin They are really tight really tight yeah and I don't know you just look at their team and there's been so much churning and turnover in the summer and the whole idea about Phil Parkinson stepping up to the next level and whether the football they play is going to be enough for them to take that next step I think it'll be enough for them to stay up and to grind out enough results and get enough points but I think to take the next step they're going to have to evolve but that's difficult in itself when you've just backed the manager to shape the squad in his image and thank you for more up front and several kind of attacking options to play off him you know some big defenders Callum Doyle for example so like I think I think they're going to be okay but I don't think it's it's certainly not going to it's going to be a sort of reality check for them this season after the back-to-back three promotions Yeah absolutely and it's not just Wrexham as well we should say Birmingham City who are a team that I suggested might even get automatic promotion from the championship this season losing at home against Hull losing at home at St Andrews for the first time since April 2024 I think it's interesting you talk about how close Wrexham's games are and that's very true but a lot of them this weekend all 1-0 goal scorelines apart from that Coventry 2-0 win or draws just shows you how tight the championship is you know West Brom winning 2-1 Sheffield United getting a big 1-0 win you know it's so so tight in there I mean you know we do this show every two weeks we should do it every day it can change all the time so that's what's fascinating about the championship always keeps you on your toes Oxford United getting a 1-0 win against Derby another team getting a 1-0 win Bristol City away at Norwich City this was an interesting clash in terms of the managers and who was in the dugout Bristol City former manager Liam Manning at Norwich City lots of suggestions this summer including from us that this would be a good fit an impressive manager last season did great things with Bristol City it isn't working though at Norwich it seems no I mean Liam Manning is clearly a talented coach there was a bit of synergy there in that I think it's you know he started at Ipswich he's from that part of the world it's a club with big ambitions Mark Atanasio finally completed his takeover from Delia Smith brought that era to an end he'd been kind of involved at the club for a number of years but this is now his show but it's quite telling that there were like I think the crowd the crowd turned quite quickly at Carrad Road in my experience but there's been some harsh words for Ben Knapper who's their sporting director even for Zoe Weber who's the chief executive wife of Stuart Weber who's had a long association there so I think there's an appreciation from the crowd that there's more wrong and more there's a bigger picture than just Liam Manning coming and not having the sort of effect and the impact that everyone hoped for the takeover and those upstairs and some of the decisions and the recruitment is all kind of all being questionable now so Lee Manning's a good coach there's no doubt about that he did a great job at Bristol City last year he had you know did a good job at MK Donzolo they fell away at the end he did a good job at Oxford as well so I don't think he's I don't think he's a problem but ultimately ultimately he's he's going to have to do something quickly because they've lost all of their home games this season and that's not something that can go on for much longer yeah And Southampton as well, we didn't mention them drawing 0-0, still in 16th place in the table.

12:52And as I mentioned, Sheffield United, a big win for them. Some big teams that we're talking about, not necessarily in the place in the table where they'd expected. Just looking down that table, is there anyone that stands out that you think, talking about Norwich and Liam Manning, they'll get it right that you could see in the next coming weeks before another international break, and then potentially again before Christmas, any that you're looking at thinking they'll get it right? or indeed that you're thinking they need to get it right quickly or there'll be some change coming? I think Derby need to arrest the slump.

13:24They lost to Oxford at the weekend. Again, a lot of low margins, three one-all draws in a row before that, one they'll defeat to Preston before that. When John Eustace came in last season, he managed to make Derby on the right side of those fine margins and they you know led them to safety and there was a lot of expectation this year they spent a lot of money on Adjumang centre forward you know backed them in the transfer market kind of almost feel like John Hughes is a bit of a cheat code at this level because of the work he's done at Birmingham and Blackburn and he just always managed to make a really sort of resolute dogged team that challenges for the playoffs despite like again the disparity in resources but it's not started well for them at all they're in 21st place only on 8 points so I think they need to turn it around very quickly I think looking up actually you're talking about how tight it is QPR down in 11th are 3 points off Stoke in 3rd the table is almost I wouldn't go as far to say it's irrelevant at the moment but it doesn't tell you that much that is a perfect way of summing up how we consume the Football League isn't it the tables are irrelevant I mean well clearly they're relevant but it's no no but I agree with you they've played 10 games they've played 10 games like three points between 11th and 3rd says it all yeah it's so tight Stoke had their best start in like well I think it was 27 years or something and then went four games without a win arrested that at the weekend like there's nothing to say nothing to tell you definitively that Stoke are going to be like challenging for the top two but they look a much improved team this year and yet they are only three points ahead of the 11th place team.

15:15Yeah, well Coventry, Middlesbrough and Stoke fans do get in touch with me, tom.clark at the time.co.uk if you think your teams can keep it going and we'll mention some of your shouts and suggestions on the next show. Speaking of leagues that are tight, we're going to talk about League One in the second half of the show but we're going to take a little break so time for just a little quiz question for Gregor Robertson. Which team this weekend kept their first clean sheet in the league away from home for the first time this year, calendar year 2025? Find out after the break.

15:55Welcome back to the Game at Football podcast from The Times. This is our EFL Extra show with me, Tom Clark and Gregor Robertson. He needed listeners approximately 20 seconds to get the answer to the quiz question, which was? Mansfield Town. Mansfield Town with a big win away at Luton Luton with their new manager Jack Wilshire Gregor strutting out onto the pitch big fanfare before the game and understandably so I thought his treads were quite interesting kind of between the like relaxed look and the suit look I thought he looked pretty sharp he did yeah he looked like the modern young manager yeah on the pitch less so a bit of a rude awakening for him he's got a big job on his hands hasn't he he certainly has yeah I mean yeah Luton's sort of spiral Has been bewildering really He's saying all the right things He says I want the players to feel the faith I have in them and like you know he's been in the building In a few days I don't know how genuine that would Feel to me if I was a player You saw the The club sort of filmed his first meeting In the canteen with all the staff And the players and that was the same message I wouldn't have taken this job if I didn't think You guys could be Promoted weren't able to challenge to turn this around we're not seeing any of that we're not seeing any evidence of that it's his first game it's not his fault but you know he also said after the game that something has clearly gone very badly wrong over the last two years here I'm pretty sure what it is but he didn't really tell us what it is yeah it's a bewildering mess and it didn't help that Naki Wales missed a penalty but I don't know I think it's a very tough job for them One of the more spectacular things that happened this weekend across all three divisions if you've not seen it yet Barnsley's Rhys Clary with one of the goals of the season so far in a 2-2 draw against high-flying Bradford scoring from his own half not even the halfway line well inside his own half if you've not seen it go and check it out that was in Bradford's 2-2 draw with Barnsley one of those pings that came down with snow on it as well it took a long time to go the keeper had a while to run back it was one of those ones for the Bradford keeper where you're going you maybe actually should have stopped that mate but it was just so high in the air that he's looking do you ever try that when you were a player?

18:13no let's move on you never tried it? no honestly just solid and dependable Gregor Robertson that's what we're learning from his playing days as I say Bradford's 2-2 draw with Barnsley just the third time they've failed to win at home in an EFL game in 2025 and the first this season having won each of their first five they've been on a brilliant run just below them in the table AFC Wimbledon recorded their first league win away to Plymouth Argyle since April 2016 they'd lost all of their four visits before so a really impressive start to the season for them Gregor which brings us to I've made us wait till the 20th of October which I think is fair isn't it that's fair sure I mean there's been lots of little references Tom but if you want to do a full segment on Lincoln City now's your time you just beat Stevenage who were top of the table top of the table Stevenage we should say take it away you have to paraphrase yeah producer Neil's ready to just phase this out at any point listen we're only in sixth but when you look at the teams around us and the teams above us we've mentioned all of them before and look it was a great performance and you were there you saw a goal and a win I saw a goal and a win listeners we met we had lots of you know poor old Tom you know chat last season about my terrible record I'm three from three three from three this season six goals have seen us score only one conceded honestly we are going up if you just judge it on the games that we are going to but no listen it's a really interesting one for a fan to go to this game and then the previous game that I went to was Luton where you go thinking oh it's Luton have come down they must be pretty good they must be pretty tidy a bit worried about this then you go and Stevenage and you're like they're top of the table we know what they've done I've researched them talked about how they're going to do a job on us we're doing jobs on them honestly seriously we look the better team we probably could and should have won this by at least two goals we had the better chances in the game Stevenage had one really good chance which was saved nicely by our goalkeeper but listen we looked so solid and I think the fascinating thing for us as fans of this team is that actually in the summer we lost some key players we lost our captain Poudy O 'Connor who was our totemic centre back he played literally nearly every game half of them he looked injured about 60 minutes you'd always be like oh my god Poudy's injured again and then he'd play he'd head at everything clear he's gone to Reading on a four year deal not played I think he's got injured as soon as he went all the Reading fans are thinking what have you sold us here you jinxed him but just really really good recruitment we brought in Sonny Bradley a former Luton player who's now plays at centre back in place of O 'Connor arguably an upgrade we've signed players like Adam Reach former West Brom and Sheffield Wednesday player who's playing at left back he's replaced Sean Rowan who was one of our young players who's gone to Huddersfield in the same league we Even early in the season, towards the end of the deadline day, we lost Jovan McCarma, who's one of our young, bright superstars up front, just before a big match.

21:04And then Rob Street, who's a player who'd been on our books, was out on loan, probably going to be sold, has replaced McCarma in exactly the same position, scored loads of goals. Listeners might have seen him score a goal against Chelsea in the Carabao Cup, scored the winner here. You're just as a fan going, they really know what they're doing. They actually know what they're doing. That's the thing that's really satisfying as a fan. And we talk about it so much on this podcast, on the Premier League one, fans being frustrated at the way clubs are run. As a Lincoln fan, I look at it from a coaching point of view and in terms of how it's run, and you just go, they know exactly what they're doing.

21:37And it's brilliant. And listen, we're not the best team in the league. We're not the most exciting team all the time, but it's incredibly effective a way of playing. What about Stevenage? I mean, obviously, they're just already the season in League One and they were leading the way for a long time. This is rare in that they had 54 % of the ball. They're normally down in the 40s. but that's what I mean about us doing a job on them well yeah but that's they only had four shots we scored that they only had four shots and we stopped them from playing and that whole other weird thing about the way we play as a team we're incredibly solid as well we work so hard Michael Skibala our coach has got the players drilled so well technically what's interesting is that technically from the outside if you were playing like football manager we technically play like four strikers technically on the pitch we have like four strikers we have a guy Ben House Rob Street Rico Hackett is more of a winger James Collins who's a very experienced player in the league as well we've got Freddie Draper who's a young forward real barreling forward he commits so many annoying fouls as a fan but he causes defences technically they're four forwards right but they just press and Harry and nick the ball back and then bang go try and attack try and get crosses into the box try and create turnovers and chances like that so very modern football you have Stevenage coming to us going right we're going to do a job on them lads and we just turn it around and do it to them and we scored the goal and then gave them the ball back.

22:56That's where those possession stats come from. I think before the goal went in, our possession stat, we would have had more of the ball because Stevenage had come to answer your question. They'd come to do the job. They were in a nice way. And I can say this because we won the game. Time wasting little tosses, basically. 20 minutes in, the keeper's swapping the ball over, moving to the other side of the penalty area. Fair play. They'd come to try and nick a point or play for the last 10 minutes and try and nick a goal. But so once we scored, it takes the game plan away from them. and we just sit deep and it's a very weird thing for a fan Neil's telling me to shut up now you tell me to shut up just because Blackpool conceded a 19 102nd minute equaliser Neil's telling me to shut up now anyway if you want more views on Lincoln City you can get in touch with me but the top of league the top of league one is pretty fascinating you've got thank you Gregor four teams four teams on 25 points from second to fifth and then Lincoln is sick the point behind that and Cardiff's top of the table so it's really you know it's pretty congested between those teams and then it was a great game as well between Bolton and Huddersfield and that was on Friday night was it?

23:59Absolutely thrilling last minute winner for Bolton Yeah, Cozy Duberey turned things around I think he's going to be a great sign in because they brought him from Brighton on loan came through at Arsenal before that he's a talent someone probably better than the level so yeah big win for Bolton and Schumacher Yeah, if you think there's been too many mentions of Lincoln City wait till we get to League 2 because I managed to shoehorn them in again because Harry Anderson, a former Lincoln City legend, scored a hat-trick for Colchester at the weekend. Harry Anderson's hat-trick for them, meaning a player scored three times for Colchester in consecutive home games.

24:37Do you know who did the one before that, Gregor? Go on. Jack Payne. Do you know who he used to play for? Lincoln City. Get it up, you Neil. How do you like that one, eh? How do you like them apples? Managed to work it into the League Two section as well. But a brilliant win for Colchester and Danny Cowley. I'm not sure who he used to manage Greg a few other thoughts in League 2 another amazing thing that I spotted in League 2 Salford City have signed Fabio Barrini absolutely mental Fabio Barrini who's played in like the Champions played for Liverpool played all over the place played in Italy played for Sunderland scored big goals in the Premier League is now doing his business in League 2 with Salford he was on the PFA kind of out of contract players camp over the summer so was Reach who you signed as well there were quite a few big names actually it's developing quite a good reputation for players who are out of contract who normally are training on their own are going on trial at clubs they play at this camp and they play against they range friendly so there's like a PFA team and then scouts come and watch so like there's been a few players picked up from that and he's one of them so yeah he's certainly an eye-catching signing big win for them against all of them here keep them in the playoff picture I'd say also MK Dons finally look like they're getting there was so much backing for them in the summer after the number of signings and some really eye-catching ones like Mendes Lang Paul Warren came in as manager but it was a stuttering start but now won four in a row 3-1 win against Kruitt could it be more yeah I think they look quite ominous now yeah picked up 24 points from their first 13 league games this season their most since 2018-19 and 2014-15 when they both also had 24 points and they went on to be promoted in both of those campaigns so good signs for mk dons gregor we'll have to wrap it up there thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening if you've got views on any of the clubs in the football league or maybe you just want even more insight on lincoln city do get in touch with me tom.clark at the times.co.uk we'll see you very soon with another efl show and we'll be back on thursday with the regular show see you then

26:52Thank you.