EFL Extra: Play-off final reactions and end of season awards

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0:54Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. and for the last time in this 2025-26 season. This is our EFL Extra Show with me, Tom Clark, and the former Football League legend, Gregor Robertson. Today, we're going to be looking at the three Football League playoff finals, but we're also going to be dishing out some end-of-season awards, so make sure you keep listening all the way through to see if your team get a shout-out. Gregor, we've made it a long way. We basically finished the season with shows every week. My intro used to say that it was every fortnight, every two weeks.

1:26Such a packed season. so many talking points that we finish with basically a show every week been emotional hasn't it

1:32Gregor Robertson: it has yeah it's been great to see some surprises in the championship we've spoken for a number of seasons about yo-yo clubs and teams coming up and down and the starting effect of parachute payments and we've got Coventry and Hull City upending the odds and yes Ipswich came through in the end but it's been I think it's been a really positive year for the championship in particular and Hull City what a story yeah absolutely Nothing sums it up better, does it? We've talked so much on the regular show. I keep calling it a remarkable season. We've brought in updates from the crazy Scottish premiership, but the Football League does also fit into that category.

2:08And probably one of the stories that sums it up is Hull City winning the playoff final against Middlesbrough. This most talked about playoff final, of course, because of Spygate, because of Southampton's expulsion. Olly McBurney getting a 94th minute winner, a tap-in after a mistake by Middlesbrough goalkeeper. Gregor, in terms of the football, let's just talk football. let's try and give it to football I'm going to ask you about the bigger picture and step back in just a second but in terms of the football an amazing achievement by Hull City in this season in itself to finish six and get into the playoffs but then to go into the playoffs not concede a goal and get past Millwall who finished third and Middlesbrough who at times played some of the best football in the league is a fantastic, fantastic achievement by everyone at the club

2:50Gregor Robertson: It's extraordinary, yeah they're a club that's kind of been spoken about throughout the season because when you consider everything that happened last season, staying up on goal difference, then over the summer, the transfer embargo, then the fact they hired a complete unknown in Sergei Yakirovic, who'd worked in Turkey, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina. And then there's the whole kind of narrative about the way they were confounding the underlying data and like everyone conceding bucket loads of goals and hardly creating any chances, but being ridiculously clinical in front of goal. Could this possibly be sustained?

3:22Gregor Robertson: Then they dropped out of the playoffs just before the final day of the regular season. Then they had to come from behind against Norwich on the final day. Then there was the whole Spygate saga and they were the forgotten party and all this. They didn't know who they were playing for certain until 72 hours before the game. And then they won it. Yeah, as you see, it was fascinating to hear Jekirovic talk afterwards about how he's been, first of all, spellbinded by the championship in comparison to all the leagues he's worked in in the past and the sort of relentless nature of it. So he spoke about all that.

3:54Gregor Robertson: They also spoke about how they treated this as an entirely new competition, the playoffs. Everything that went before was forgotten. And they changed formation. And a team that had conceded, I think, the third most goals in the league, which is ridiculous, didn't concede a goal in the playoffs and looked so solid. And it was just a remarkable turnaround in that regard. And as we said, all season they had match winners. And the ultimate match winner was Oli McBurnay, their talisman for the season. And it wasn't a pretty game. it wasn't we say this so often it's often one of the worst games of the season there's just too much on it now there's too much pressure too much weightiness and it becomes a bit of a tough watch a lot of the time but McBurnie was there when it mattered and yes Solbrin had an error he'll want the world to kind of swallow him up after but he was on the spot and he sent them into the Premier League so it's a remarkable story for Hull City Yeah and Olly McBurnie making sure to capitalise on the celebrations afterwards I don't know if you saw the images of him on the open top bus parade yesterday sarcastically smoking a flare which I think is one of the biggest flexes you could possibly have top off tattoos out smoking a flare on the top of an open top bus parade fantastic scenes and congratulations to Hull just stepping away from it for a minute then and I think there is a sense amongst football and neutrals that we're happy Hull won I think we mentioned this slightly in the preview show because of Spygate because of everything Southampton have done and we'll continue to hear about the ramifications of that I'm sure nothing against Middlesbrough but it was probably and for everyone at the EFL as well probably a neater finish for Hull to come up despite the fact that you know when you look at the table they finished 10 points behind Millwall you know 22 points behind Coventry it's a neater footballing story and a nicer finish to this remarkable saga isn't it yeah I think there were a lot of sides of relief pleased as you say in the EFL and in the football and sort of world more broadly because the Spygate saga will no doubt continue to rumble on a bit but it would have been a huge kind of question mark and an asterisk over the season and over this promotion if Middlesbrough had gone up and that's not to say it's not been a really difficult time for Middlesbrough I'm sure we'll get on to that but yeah definitely I need to finish that's a good way of putting it and a kind of a match winner who epitomized the remarkable nature of the story too and the fact that as their owner Atun Ilochali was saying on the pitch afterwards they were praying for Burnie's former team Les Palmas to be relegated last season because that meant there was a clause in his contract that meant he could leave for free and they could only sign players for free so he was someone they were desperately hoping to sign and he said to the owner before the game don't worry we'll win this and I'll score and he did it.

6:36Gregor Robertson: He's a really fascinating character at Bernie. He's obviously had some scrapes over the years but he's a totally kind of full-blooded wholly committed talismanic sort of figure for his team. I interviewed him when I spent a day at Hull earlier in the season before they played Chelsea in the Cup and he's a bit of a throwback too. We did the interview and he was good value and then we sat for 10 minutes in the canteen afterwards and chewed the fat and he spoke about how much desperate he was to play for Scotland and all kind of stuff and he gave some really fascinating insight about Jekirovic too and yeah it's just been this seems to be this kind of alchemy has been created this season at Hull and that'll go a long way what it will do for them next season is another question because I think this is the first team who's finished sixth to win the playoffs since 2010 and I think even Hull City fans would admit this is probably one of the weaker teams on paper and you know across the the landscape of the season to be promoted for quite some time yeah absolutely and congratulations to all whole city fans especially my mother-in-law marge well done you've done it you're back in the premier league where she will be taking on her husband sunderland and his team next season so that'll make family tensions nice and exciting gregor let's come back to millsborough then we hope that this doesn't affect them too much don't we we want kim helberg to stay i'm not sure hayden hackney will stay but they've got something good going, haven't they, with this manager.

8:03They can, to use that kind of cliched phrase now in football, go again next season. But this could be a bit of a hangover for them, couldn't it?

8:10Gregor Robertson: I mean, undoubtedly. They've had a tumultuous season, absolutely. If you think about the fact that Rob Edwards left after, I think it was 15 games, Helberg came in and immediately kind of made a really, really strong impression on everyone, not just as a coach, but as a person. And he sort of reinforced that during this whole saga as well. even after the game he was totally hard on his sleeve he talked about the kind of emotional drain of the last couple of weeks he said I wish I could have done better through this period I wish I could have found better solutions on the day in the final so he's kind of you know really honest and self-reflective and and we have to say we've said this a few times on this podcast this season for me Helberg's team at their best that period when they just after the turn of the year when they were on absolute fire and actually they touched the top of the table very briefly as well.

8:59Gregor Robertson: They played some of the best football I've seen in the championship for years. Brilliant team to watch. Brilliantly kind of incisive and progressive and the speed of their play, really exciting to watch. And then they spent 35 of 46 matchdays in the top two. As I say, they went top in early February. They won six in a row. They looked like they were unstoppable. And then that game against Coventry was where it started to kind of fracture a little bit. And then Hayden Hackney's loss was really crucial. I think they won two of the last 10 games. So yeah, they were kind of slightly, I think also this season showed they were slightly light in terms of their overall squad.

9:37Gregor Robertson: Their first choice team was as good as any. They need to invest a bit more in a sort of in squad depth. And clearly if Hayden Hackney leaves, that'll be a huge, huge loss and really almost impossible to replace. But with Kim Helberg at the helm, I'm sure there will be some hope after what has undoubtedly been a pretty dramatic season for Middlesbrough. Yeah, they will hope to come back fighting next season. Let's take a quick look at the rest of the league, Gregor, and dish out some end-of-season awards. I say end-of-season awards. It's slightly ludicrous, I would say, in all three divisions of the Football League to be doing so because there is no other contender for team of the season than the teams that finish top of each league.

10:13So brilliant have they all been. Indeed, for manager of the season as well, I don't think there will be any listeners to this show that would argue that Coventry and Frank Lampard take those two awards. And I think you could probably make the case for Hadji Wright, Carl Rushworth, a couple of their players being player of the year as well. So I'm going to take it away from the team that finished top. Any other players, teams, managers that you think deserve special mention? I've got a couple lined up as well.

10:36Gregor Robertson: Actually, I was thinking about this before and I think even since Hayden Hackney's been injured, I think there's so much focus on him that I think his kind of midfield partner, Hayden Morris, has been overlooked for a lot of the season and he's a brilliant, brilliant player. he made more accurate passes than any other player in the division he's metronomic in the centre of the pitch and he allows Hackney to move forward so they still have a fantastic midfielder there even if Hackney does leave Sorba Thomas, remember back in the early days when Stoke were touching the top of the table and we thought this could be finally their year and yes they faded and Mark Robbins was unable to keep that momentum going but Sorba Thomas created more chances than any player in the league and he, as a lot of players around him started to stutter and stumble, he continued to be creating chances and assists and getting goals as well.

11:23Gregor Robertson: So, you had a great season. We've spoken about already, but it's hard to look beyond McBurnie. For one player who's had such an effect on his team, 24 goals and assists, that's the second in the league. I think it's hard to look beyond McBurnie as well. Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to give a shout out to Millwall. We discussed them lots towards the end of the season. I'd say as well, Greg, another slight left field mention for manager of the season and a little bit of the Michael Carrick guys, but James Morrison at West Brom in terms of keeping them up, dealing with all the issues that were going on at the club when he took over.

11:56I always remember reading out on this show some of his comments he made about his players absolutely throwing them under the bus after a defeat that they'd had early on in his interim reign. Taking on the job, dealing with a late points deduction as well, throwing that at them in slightly controversial circumstances. Yes, they only finished 21st in the table, but I think he deserves huge, huge praise and I'll be interested to see what he can do next season. And I must say, Gregor, I've been slightly disparaging of the project but Wrexham finishing seventh, Phil Parkinson, I think deserves a huge amount of credit.

12:27I suggested rather cheekily many times earlier in the season that he might not last the full campaign but what a brilliant job he's done as well.

12:34Gregor Robertson: And one more in that vein then, I would have to say Philippe Clermont. The job he's done at Norwich has been nothing short of extraordinary. Consider they were threatened with relegation when he joined in November. and there was a brief moment where we thought they could have gatecrashed the playoffs and they fell just short but I've heard that he's had his players in you know the season ended they've not gone on holiday yet he's got them in for a couple of weeks getting them fit you thought they weren't fit enough this season and I think Norwich City fans more than almost any others in the championship should be really excited about next season with a full season of climbing on at the helm Yeah keep an eye on Norwich's spending this summer Greg we'll take a little break right there but we'll come back and look at the two final player finals and dish out some more end-of-season awards.

13:16We'll be back in just a sec.

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14:08Welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Gregor Robertson with me for our final EFL Extra Show of the 2025-26 season. We've been looking at the playoff finals and also dishing out some end-of-season awards and praise for some of the best performers in the Football League. Gregor, let's look at the League One playoff final. In our preview show, we said Hull would go up and we got that one right. We got this one very wrong. We both picked Stockport, losing 4-1 to Bolton Wanderers. Bolton that team I did warn everyone they always find a way they more than found a way in this game helped by an early goal Gregor it must be said Ruben Rodriguez scoring after just two minutes but a bit of a mistake I've got to say from Corey Adai in the stockpook goal and just thinking why not push it around the corner from a long range shot kept the ball in play helped give Bolton the lead Bolton also getting an own goal as well but this was always going to be a close game in terms of the ability of these two sides on scoreline it ended up not being very close and it's a great achievement for Bolton to get over the line as I said listeners to this show regularly will have heard me banging on about how worried I was that they were going to make a charge towards the automatic promotion places so well done to Bolton they got over the line yeah I mean it's

15:21Gregor Robertson: fair to say we thought along with a lot of other people this could be a really cagey game and it was it was the early goal helped in in that regard and it was it was action-packed there There was drama with VAR on two occasions and Stockport gave as good as they got in the first half. I think in the second half, Bolton just turned up a notch and as Dave Chaloner admitted, they were second best really in the second half and it was a second defeat at Wembley of the season for Stockport after losing against Lutontown in the Virtue final trophy. And, you know, there were just a few moments in the game.

15:53Gregor Robertson: You're right to talk about the error for the first goal. You think about Kyle Wooten's own goal in the second half, which made it a really difficult looking afternoon for Stockport. And Kyle Wooten's story has been pretty remarkable too. Yeah, crazy. I think he's the second highest goal scorer in the league. He's got 20 goals this season, only Don Ballard scored more. And he moved to centre-half in April, played the last 10 games there. He'd never been a centre-half before in his life. And he's obviously done a good job there, but this was just a moment where the shot came in and the keeper got a very slight touch in it and he wasn't able to move his feet and adjust and he scored an own goal.

16:25Gregor Robertson: That was a terrible moment for him. and then a great finish from Sam Dalby to make it 3-1 and then yeah like another hair pull in this season of I was going to say I thought of you as I so often do when I'm watching live football and think of all the various different takes you've had on this podcast throughout the season you and I slightly disagree on the old hair pulling you've been quite tough on likes of Michael Keane and people in the Premier League this one has got to be one of the harshest Josh Dacres-Cogley not even looking in the same direction that's the thing that gets me For some of the others, they're kind of facing the same way.

16:57They put the hand on the back. He just throws an arm out behind him in a normal bodily motion, as you would do, and just about pull. I mean, it's got to be one of the harshest. We should say as well, for people who aren't familiar, Bolton were 3-1 up at this stage, and it was in the very last minute. So it wasn't completely decisive. But I've got to say, as much as people are admiring this rule for it being a very simple one to follow in modern football and letter of the law and all that kind of stuff, I did really feel for Josh Dakers Cogley because you never want to get sent off least of all at Wembley in a playoff fight

17:28Gregor Robertson: Yeah, no, I do have enormous sympathy for him and yeah, we have to be glad that it wasn't a decisive decision or moment like that it was late in the game but you're right, he's not looking at the ball I mean, the first VAR decision was more important and it was a VAR goal chopped off as they are so often these days it was a coming together between the defender and Adam Asidibe as he kind of ran through to a ball in behind. I don't think it was like a foul. There was no intent in it. It was a collision. And as Chaloner said afterwards, there's no way that that decision is made if it's the other way around, if it's the defender on the striker.

18:06Gregor Robertson: So I thought they were a little bit unlucky in that moment. They did very well to get back on level terms. And ultimately, though, it was Bolton's day. And you've got to be really pleased for Bolton considering they've been, I think, been the players three of the last four years. And from the lowest ebb they were at in 2019 when Sharon Britton saved the club from ministration, when there were very real fears about their future. And I remember reporting there when the awful Ken Anderson was at the helm and threatening to take the club, to bury the club, basically. The sort of renaissance that's taken place there has been pretty remarkable, really sort of reconnected with their fans.

18:46Gregor Robertson: Ian Evatt did a lot and got them really, really close. and Schumacher in 18 months that he's been there. It's not all been smooth, but he's taken them on kind of to the next level, I think. And they've got a huge challenge now to try and compete in the championship because it's a different league to the one they left. But great for Bolton Wanderers, a great big club in the Northwest to be back in the championship. Yeah, absolutely. Well done to Bolton and all their fans. Let's finish the look at League One for this season, then Gregor, in the same way we did with the championship. There can be no doubt, listeners, and get ready for many gratuitous mentions of Lincoln City's brilliance this season as I can possibly fit into two minutes of podcasting.

19:24But there is no way, and to be honest, Gregor, I'll quit this podcast for good if you dare say that there's any way that Lincoln City and manager Michael Scubala are not taking both those awards. 103 points, I would just remind you, 103 points, top of League One. And I honestly, personally, would list basically every single Lincoln City player before any other player in the league when it comes to the player of the year as well. So, Gregor, I'm going to take... surprise. I'm going to take myself out of this I think. I have got a few honourable mentions from elsewhere in the league but who elsewhere in the league?

19:53Teams, managers players, do you think deserves a mention at the end of this campaign? Well, Alex

19:58Gregor Robertson: Revell at Stevenage undoubtedly does because that was a remarkable achievement and the kind of up and down nature of their season, having started so well and then gone through an awful spell and then sort of reasserted themselves and pipped a lot of teams that were coming up strong if you think about Plymouth and Luton Wickham until the very end and managed to hold on to that final playoff place, that was a brilliant, brilliant achievement and I'd say the same for Graeme Alexander because Bradford are such a big club at the level, you almost expect them to be competing at the top end but they were only promoted last season from League 2 and there's been a real sort of, I don't know a real kind of rebirth at that club I feel and the crowds they're getting are extraordinary again it was an up and down season and they ultimately fell short but I think they've got brighter days ahead in terms of players it's hard to I mean Don Ballard to get 23 goals for a team that you know could well have been relegated is extraordinary and another is I would say is Laurent Tullai who joined Plymouth and moved up a level and got 26 goal involvements and looks like he could move on to the championship too so too many to mention but I'd also mention Oliver Norwood I know he's on the losing side here at Wembley but just so consistent and so important I think of all So just going to name a player who's most important for his team, it's probably Oliver Norwood.

21:19Yeah, just going to sneak in an exact mention for Sonny Bradley and Jack Moylan, just in case you were doubting as to which Lincoln players exactly are definitely deserving of the Player of the Year title. Gregor, I have to mention, we always do it, I have to mention Gary Bowyer and Burton Albion in terms of this league. The teams they often get results against, they were one of the toughest opponents we faced in a match that I saw. It was at the turn of the year when I was so desperate for Lincoln to pick up as many points as they could. because I was paranoid it would all go horribly wrong. They set up so effectively.

21:47They've survived in the division, again, finishing 17th. They are so worthy of praise, I think, for doing a brilliant job on not very much. They play really effectively. It's not this negative. I'm not being patronising. They attack really meaningfully when they get the ball as well. So a brilliant job from them to stay in the division as well just finishing. What a wonderful achievement, 103 points. I'm going to leave it there, I promise, but 103, just in case you've forgotten, 103 points for Lincoln City in League One this season. Let's move into League Two. Notts County, Gregor, again, proving me wrong.

22:19I think you went for Notts County in the preview show. A brilliant achievement for them. Just before we come on to them, we have to couch it in Salford City. Falling short again, still in League Two. All the big names were there. David Beckham, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville was there. Carl Robinson talked about it after the game, but they were comfortably beaten in this one. does it start ever to get into your head as a club can it seep into a club that you know you're never going to get this over the line

22:45Gregor Robertson: it's possible I mean next season will be their eighth trying to get out of league too that's a long time when you think back to I mean I don't know whether you watched the documentary but I did certainly in the early days and you kind of I remember Gary Neville saying it pays to be really aggressive and to try and do back to back and back to back and you know they obviously did that in non-league and they have threatened to be promoted over those seven seasons, before this season, and reached the playoffs before, but they found it impossible to do that. And, you know, I remember him saying he spoke to other club owners who've kind of experienced this sort of rise with a really small club, a diminutive club, and he spoke to Fleetwood Town's owner and that's what he said, it's about being really aggressive.

23:28Gregor Robertson: And they have done that, but it's failed. And they've got one of the biggest budgets in the league and they've fallen short. and look, the margins are so, so small. You think back to Udo's miss again on the final day at Crawley and the penalty they possibly should have had on the final day at Crawley and, you know, that would have taken them into League One without the need for the playoffs. But what you have to say is they were completely outplayed and there was no question about who deserved to win this final and sometimes that's almost easier to take. You know, I lost a playoff final on penalties to Bristol Rovers in the National League.

24:02Gregor Robertson: That's really hard to take. There was nothing between us in the game. They were comprehensively beaten. Carl Robinson admitted as much. The players didn't turn up. They'll want to know why and they'll want to reflect on that. But it's possibly easier to take than a gut punch on penalties or like the way that Middlesbrough lost. Absolutely. It was comprehensive, as you say. I was watching it when I was on the editing floor at the Times Sports Desk. And I'd also say as well, interestingly, I always preview the playoffs, having been a fan of a team that has so consistently failed in the playoffs.

24:32playoffs being the kind of fans nightmare I'd say for a Notts County fan at Wembley this was the perfect procession of promotion a goal after half an hour a good goal to kind of cement you know we're the better team here then a goal just before half time so you go into half time 2-0 up and then a goal with 20 minutes left and you can start the party 3-0 jobs are good and I'd say in terms of enjoyment levels Notts County fans yes Hull get the elation at the end but they had to sit through 90 minutes of tense and fairly turgid football Lots of angles you could go out with Notts County, Gregor. I wanted to start with Jodie Jones, though, because I mentioned him in the preview show.

25:07One of the best young players I ever saw a good couple of years ago. The man has suffered three ACL injuries in his career, but bouncing back and achieving in this final some brilliant moments. I think he's got an assist, a goal, and I think he was awarded Player of the Match as well. Fantastic achievement for him to make it to League One. A brilliant footballer, as I say. I saw him playing for Coventry against Lincoln many years ago and thought he looked electric. So the fact that he's able to cope with those injuries and find success is really brilliant, isn't it?

25:33Gregor Robertson: Yeah, and there's some extraordinary stats came out after. I watched Jodie Jones at Coventry many years ago and I know all about his injury woes and his sort of renaissance at Notts County, initially in the National League. And in fact, the fact that Carl Robinson pushed him out of Oxford to go to Notts County was another sort of twist in this tale. Carl Robinson being the Salford manager, of course. But some of the stats, yeah. three in the operations sideline for a total of 897 days at Coventry missed 130 games between November 2017 and August 2021 and he went five years between starting league games that's extraordinary amazing and like you know last in 23-24 he made loads of headlines for the number of assists he racked up I think he got 24 assists which obviously blew out Bruno Fernandes or before him Fabregasso is it?

26:28Gregor Robertson: Yeah De Bruyne Foyne Fabregas, Thierry Henry. Blew them out of the water, yeah. And he's playing in a slightly different role now. They play three at the back with kind of wing backs and he's a winger. He's obviously had to knuckle down and do the defensive side as well. But as you say, his influence on this game was extraordinary. The ball threw for Jata for the first goal. I think he maybe even won the free kick that led to the second and then a long busting run and great finish to absolutely put the nail in the coffin for the third. And as you say, Nott's County fans could just enjoy the rest of the day in the sunshine.

26:59Gregor Robertson: So a great, great day for Jodie Jones and a great story and a great example for anyone to never give up and kind of hold on to your dreams. Yeah, absolutely. There's an advert in there somewhere. If someone wants to get behind Jodie Jones, the EFL Extra Show would be well behind you as well. A brilliant achievement for Notts County then, Gregor. Bromley finishing top of the table to continue this theme. I don't really think there's any way we can not pick Bromley and their head coach, Andy Woodman, as the manager and club of the League Two season. Any others that you want to pick out? We've obviously just showered Notts County and Jodie Jones with some praise.

27:31They would be worthy contenders. Otherwise, any other teams, managers, players that you'd like to highlight?

27:36Gregor Robertson: I think Neil Harris deserves a mention. Cambridge United manager. He had quite a tumultuous period in his career. He was at Cambridge before and then he left to go back to Millwall. And then he had left under a bit of a cloud after some probably ill-timed words in an interview. and when he went back to Cambridge it was also with Mark Bonner who was a former manager as director of football so that always just felt like a really weird sort of dynamic but it's worked brilliantly and I think he's a really good manager you know he did some really good work at Millwall in the past obviously but this was a great achievement at Cambridge in terms of players I think Jays Cabia has been a revelation for Grimsby plucked him from non-league scored 18 goals and I think there'll be suitors for him and for his services over the summer and Aaron Drennan at Swindon as well obviously has scored a bucket load of goals so I think it's been a brilliant season for him despite Swindon's sort of collapse at the end and look I'd see Dave Artel as well a lot happens in a season but just cast your mind back to that extraordinary moment where they beat Manchester United yeah that seems like a long time ago now but that was this season that was this season yeah yeah and that cup run probably took its toll a little bit for a period in the season and then they found a second win to get into the playoffs but couldn't make it to the final I think probably the future is still very bright for Grimsby Town with or without Jace Gabby at the helm because they like Hearts like Como who are in the Champions League next season the Teline Club and Union San Giloua who recently won the Tied League in Belgium they have the data Tony Bloom's data and I think the future is bright for Grimsby Yeah I would just like to give another shout out as well Gregor to Christian Fuchs at Newport County we were slightly sceptical and maybe even disparaging of his appointment and it took him a long time to get going but at the same time we do always say oh these big name former players they just think they can waltz into management he took possibly one of the hardest jobs in the country in taking over at Newport and getting them over the line in incredibly dramatic fashion as the listeners will remember from our end of season show so well done to Christian Fuchs and everyone at Newport County for staying in the league Gregor it's been an amazing season across football and especially in the Football League.

29:56And I think we've stumbled on this theme of the year of the upstart in terms of Coventry, Lincoln, Bromley finishing top of the table and some of the other stories of clubs who've made it up. I just wanted to finish with a word on that theme, really, as all those clubs, Coventry, Lincoln, Bromley fans will all be thinking, can we do it again or can we stay up? How hard is it going to be? What do you think about the lay of the land in terms of the footballing landscape for those clubs trying to do it again or try to survive because it doesn't matter which level you're going up to coventry and hull in particular will find it very challenging in the

30:31Gregor Robertson: premier league next season well i think it's shown that there is still a very much a place for a manager who inspires like you know there's been a lot of in this era of sort of data and such heavy sort of weight place behind that and what the kind of marginal gains you can find using data, it's sort of been diminished, this idea that a coach over a course of any elongated period of time doesn't really have that much impact. I've always been slightly wary about that. I think Frank Lampard's done an extraordinary job there with largely the same group of players. I think Michael Scobala has shown he's a brilliant leader and coach and is willing to think outside the box.

31:11Gregor Robertson: Yes, in Lincoln's case, they had a really good structure around them that helped him beat those odds. I'm not sure that's actually entirely true about Coventry I think that time will tell on that and we'll probably see how good the kind of structure around Frank Lampard is over the course of the summer and Andy Woodman is a force of nature he's got a big personality and has not been afraid to play a certain brand of football that kind of might not always be easy on the eye but it's very very effective I think it's been a season where you have seen how important managers are as well And clubs who are able to think outside the box and try and do things a little bit differently can still find success despite the financial might of others.

31:56Gregor Robertson: So that's one takeaway for me for this season. But we should also say the new financial rules in the EFL may make that more and more difficult as we go forward. But I think probably we're better talking about that at the start of next season instead of now. Indeed, there we are listeners. Gregor Robertson already excited about the season preview for 2021. 26, 20, 27 in the Football League, but there's loads more still to come on the game podcast between now and then. If on the off chance that you're a listener out there who only listens to the EFL Extra show, I promise there's loads of great gear in the feed elsewhere.

32:31We'll have Champions League preview on Thursday and then reaction next Monday. And we will be back for the World Cup with a show every single day of the tournament. So make sure you tune in. You'll have me very sleep deprived in the early hours of the morning talking to our team out in the Americas and speaking to the likes of Gregor back home as well. But thank you very much for now, for joining us throughout this amazing season. 103 points. I'll just get it in one last time on this episode. Sorry, Gregor, I couldn't help it. Thank you very much for joining us. And thank you as always to the wonderful Gregor Robinson for his brilliant insights on the Football League.

33:06We will be back very, very soon with the regular show and we'll be back in the pre-season to look at the next EFL campaign. We'll see you then.

33:41We'll see you next time. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions. You're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.