ENGLAND SQUAD: IMMEDIATE REACTION

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1:12Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. This is a very special episode having a look at Thomas Tuchel's England squad. I'm Tom Clarke and I'm joined by the Football Journalist of the Year and the Chief Football Correspondent for The Times and Sunday Times, Johnny Northcroft. Johnny it's 9.30 you're at Wembley you've tried to find a little quiet location for us to talk to me now as I say it's 9.30 when we're recording this we're getting confirmation of the squad at 10 o 'clock but thanks to the brilliant reporting from Times journalists such as yourself Paul Joyce Paul Hurst and Matt Lawton we are in a position where we basically know the squad I've got to read it out for you now Johnny shout if I've got any of this wrong but we've got Pickford Dean Henderson and James Trafford as the goalkeepers then we've got Rhys James Tino Liveramento Mark Guayhi Esri Konza John Stones Jarrell Kwanza Nico O 'Reilly Dan Byrne and Jed Spence as the defenders Declan Rice Elliot Anderson Jude Bellingham Jordan Henderson Morgan Rogers and Kobe Mayne who is midfielders and then Harry Kane Ivan Tony Ollie Watkins as your three strikers and the forwards and wingers we've got Saka Maddoweke Marcus Rashford Anthony Gordon and Ebereche Eze Johnny what do we make of it?

2:20Yes yes well that is that is our understanding of the squad I'm standing just outside the press room under the main stand at Wembley with generators going and you might hear the old forklift truck as they make preparations for today. But yeah, the initial shock, I guess, yesterday was twofold. One was Ivan Toney's inclusion. The other was Harry Maguire's exclusion from the squad. I have reservations about Maguire not being in. I'd have definitely kicked him. I think he's been the best English defender, apart from Graehy in the Premier League this year, and he's excellent with both boxers. But having woke up and thought about it this morning, I am talking about, I'm quibbling about a decision made around the fourth Tories-Befenda, in which Tuchel's gone for Dan Byrne instead.

3:05So maybe it's not the biggest call. Toney's very interesting. Nobody really saw this coming. But from what I understand, Tuchel's thinking about the heat, the fact that Ivan Toney scored 30 goals in the Saudi Pro League in similar conditions. And someone put it to me yesterday, you know, England have got to spend seven weeks in camp here in America. and when you're a player in Saudi you're almost living in camp full time, you know, you're in a sort of gated community focused on training and playing and you're living a very clean lifestyle so actually Ivan Toni, there's a lot of logic there and that's before you get to his penalty shootout prowess his ability to come on and change games it's a balanced squad it's Tupelo stuck to his promise to pick two players per position and three wild cards.

3:56And those wild cards maybe say a lot about his thinking. The wild cards would be Dan Byrne, who's kind of there for set pieces and vibes. Eze, who's the sort of difference maker, I guess, creatively to come off the bench in certain situations. And then Ivan Toney, who's the wild card forward for very specific reasons. Yeah, really interesting snap analysis there, Johnny. As ever with these England squads, You've been doing this longer than me, but I've been in this gig enough to have seen a lot of England squads. There's always contention. There's always shock. But I think one of the striking things about this squad is some of the big names that have been left out.

4:35Big name players with huge experience. It's not necessarily a shock when you put it against their form this season or their struggles that they've had at international level. But it is still a big call. Trent Alexander-Arnold is a Real Madrid player and European Cup winner. Phil Foden has won basically the lot in England. Cole Palmer. Many people were saying this guy's going to win a Ballon d 'Or this time last year. They're three players who have missed out. I'm going to ask you about some players who were in form and who've missed out in a minute, but just your reaction to some of those big names.

5:07Because, as I say, whilst it's not necessarily a shock, it's still a huge call from Thomas Tuchel and one that's probably in stark contrast to what Gareth Southgate would have done. Yes, it's exactly that, Tom. It's a huge call to leave out any player with the talent of any of those three that you've mentioned post-op. And then you think to yourself, would another country leave out Pan Alexander-Arnold? Would another country leave out Palmer or Foden? But this is reality, I suppose, of England having an embarrassment of riches in certain positions. Personally, one of my worries about the squad is that Tuchel has, I suppose, veered away from those players who represent the different passing option, who represent that ability to just do something the opposition haven't thought of when they get the ball.

5:51And I do see Trent Alexander-Arnold and Cole Palmer very much in that category. And Adam Wharton as well, actually, who's got the ability to pick a different pass and play at a different tempo. So I don't like the fact he's ignored that type of player. I'm happy, though, that he hasn't done what Gareth did at Euro 2024 for him just trying to take all the number 10s and more than that trying normal to play with all the number 10s yeah yeah absolutely what he has done go on johnny yeah sorry what he has done is he's given us so much debate because if things go wrong everyone will say why is Trent yeah why is Phil not there why is Palmer yeah absolutely just on the play you bring in Adam Wharton there and that kind of is my next question because as well as these big names he's probably left out a few players that other people are surprised on on form and finishing the season strongly one of those in particularly for me, and I think you agree, having interviewed him the other day, Morgan Gibbs-White, I am devastated about not seeing him here.

6:47Regular listeners of this show will know that. You've also got the likes of James Garner, not necessarily a superstar, but has had a very good season for Everton. Adam Wharton, as you say, is in a European final next week. Alex Scott at Bournemouth has had a very good finish to the season. And Miles Lewis-Skelly, you know, has just come back into this Arsenal team and played a pretty important role in this little mini-season as they've had a strong finish. So what do you make of some of those calls about some of those players? because I think they maybe fall into your category of potential difference makers off the bench.

7:15Definitely. And I like you, I am utterly gutted for Morgan Gibbs-White. I think he's been the best player in the Premier League in the last six months, maybe three months, maybe Bardec and Rice, you could say. He's the top scoring English player in the Premier League. I think he's got an edge to his game aligned with the creativity to make him different. and having spoken to him on Wednesday. Just such a good guy and so desperate to be in this squad, so desperate to play for England. He's hugely, hugely unlucky. I mean, look, the others, I have Wharton in. I love Alex Scott, but somebody has to make way.

8:00What he has done is gone for, instead of those players, he's gone for people like Jordan Henderson and John Stones and guys, I guess, who represent experience and the tried and tested, but don't necessarily represent recent form. Yeah, absolutely. And just very quickly, Johnny, Henderson will be one that probably might upset quite a few fans, but he was always going to be in, wasn't he? Just for that kind of experience, leadership, being around the dressing room. He might not play a single minute, but he'll play an important role, won't he? Yeah, if he hadn't been in the squad, I think he'd have been on the staff, actually.

8:37and from the start Tuchel signalled that Henderson's going to be a big part of this actually signalled Dan Byrne was in fairness to him, we always like to pick out inconsistencies in managers and there's no inconsistency here right from the start, those two were there as the sort of culture heroes from what I understand Henderson is in a really good place in terms of his fitness he has had an encouraging season at Brentford, a year ago he looked like he was just there on name. Now there is some form behind him. It's not one that I'd, you know, it's not a hill I'd die on saying he shouldn't be in, but I just feel that with the experience already there of people like Stones, Pickford, Kane and Byrne, that other midfield slot could have gone to a Lewis Skelly or a Wharton or even a Gibbs White who could play eight and ten.

9:29Yeah, absolutely. And just a final question, Johnny, I'm going to let you go and get ready for the official announcement and then the later press conferences and stuff. You can read all of Johnny's analysis on the Times website later today, of course. There is a separate side to this that I was contemplating this morning, Johnny, where actually the squad is a big debate, of course, and we're talking about difference makers off the bench. But actually the starting 11 that I think most England fans would agree with and would be happy with is in there. I don't know whether you agree with me, but I've got Pickford, Rhys James, Konza, Gwehi, O 'Reilly as a back four, then Rice and Anderson.

10:00and then you've got Saka, Bellingham, Rashford behind Kane and then you maybe look at the backups and you say Rodgers or Bellingham, Stones or Konza but they're all there, you know, Gordon for Rashford Watkins as a backup you actually go, well actually when it comes to the first game England play we've got, everyone's kind of got the starting 11 I think would you agree? I'd agree, I think the only one I sort of the two I ponder is Rodgers or Bellingham and Rashford or Gordon I think the rest are pretty clear that's one thing we've always demanded of England managers and they haven't always delivered that they'd go to tournaments knowing their team so I think Tuchel's done that, as I mentioned earlier, he's been very clear in this idea of having a number one for a position and a number two and you can go through the names and understand it from that perspective, for example Madueke, maybe not the greatest form for Arsenal but his job at club level is to understudy for Kai Osaka and he's just doing the same job here and then with a couple of wild cards so a lot of a lot of logic in it there is clarity in fairness and one thing Tuchel's very good at is providing clarity when he speaks so I'm expecting us to come away from the press conference with some very sort of clear and honest reasoning behind these decisions Yeah you can get that clarity and reasoning from Thomas Tuchel later on but some top notch clarity and reasoning from Johnny Northcroft on the game podcast Johnny thank you very much for joining us we'll speak to you very soon Thanks Tom Cheers Thanks to Johnny Northcroft there joining us from Wembley, that England squad for you again, Thomas Tuchel picking his 26 names for the World Cup we've got Jordan Pickford, Dean Henderson and James Trafford as the goalkeepers then we've got Rhys James, Tino Livramento Mark Gwehi, John Stones, Esri Konza Jarrell Kwanza, Nico O 'Reilly Dan Byrne and Jed Spence as the defenders, midfielders we've got Declan Rice, Elliot Anderson Jude Bellingham, Jordan Henderson Morgan Rodgers, Kobi Mainu and Ebereche Eze then as the forwards we've got Harry Kane, Ivan Toney Oli Watkins, Bukayo Saka, Noni Madueke, Marcus Rashford and Anthony Gordon.

12:02That is your England squad. As we understand it, recording now, we'll get confirmation later. And by the time you're listening to this, that will have been confirmed. Johnny Northcroft there joining me from Wembley. You can read his latest insights and analysis on the Times website. And Johnny will be joining us for two special game podcasts next week. We are doing a live game podcast in London. Come and join us. The final tickets are on sale now. Times.com slash events. You've got me hosting a panel of Johnny Northcroft, Martin Samuel, Hamza Kalikluna and Tony Cascarino discussing this upcoming World Cup.

12:34Come and join us in person. You can be part of the game podcast. You can find those tickets, as I say, at thetimes.com forward slash events. And then Johnny, Hamza and Matt Lawton will be joining me for a special show to talk about being in the England camp. Those three will be our Times team with the England squad and players for the tournament. they'll be joining me for a very special game podcast that you can watch on our times youtube channel to at timesport and you'll be able to listen in the feed later on and just in case you've tuned into this and thinking tom you did promise us a playoff final preview show don't worry it's coming me and gregor robertson will be previewing those three finals that'll be in the feed later on as well thank you very much for listening we'll be back very soon see you then

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