Hull's hopes, Tottenham's troubles and Mainoo's magic

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1:00rules and use of VAR has already peaked in terms of stupidity. Is it too early to make claims like that after just two weeks of the Premier League season? Or most certainly. Will we make them anyway? Let's find out. I'm Tom Clark and I'm joined for today's bank holiday bonanza by the chief sports writer and Sunday Times columnist Alison Rudd. The football reporter who covers clubs in the south of England with a focus on Chelsea is Peter Rutzler and the former footballer Turn journalist Gregor Robertson is with me as usual. Team, here we are. Everyone else is at home, chilling out. We are in this studio because there's loads and loads to discuss.

1:35Loads of hot takes already. Back. We're back and enthused. And do you know where we're going to start? Not Chelsea. Don't care. Not interested. Not all those big clubs that spend loads of money and are struggling. We're going to start with Hull City. Six points. Two games. One of the most brilliant and unexpected starts. Every single person wrote them off. not me but that's only because I'm not allowed to because my mother-in-law's a Hull fan so anyway Gregor Robinson you were there to watch them beat Coventry 1-0 was it a smash and grab or was it actually quite canny from Hull and Sergei Jekirovich I think both things can be true there yes we are back come on both things can be true already I mean it was a smash and grab but this is the way Hull played it's the way they played last season for large swathes of the season in the championship it's the way they won promotion it's the way that everyone kind of wrote them off by thinking how can a team who creates so few chances manage to get this output of goals?

2:33I think they were the fifth fewest number of shots in the championship last season yet they were the fifth highest scorers. But the quality of the chances they create were I think the third best in the league and they're the best shot conversion. So everyone thought this is sustainable, this is sustainable and they sustained them. So I know we're only two games in but you watch this game particularly in the second half and you kind of understand why those stats occurred last season because Coventry threw everything at them and they looked like they could defend their own box all day, their back three.

3:05That's what I was going to say on the smash and grab sense from watching the highlights was that it wasn't like save after save after save. There were a couple of one good save from that kind of header, good diving save. Sort of an instinctive leg out from a one year at the back. But there wasn't like chance after chance kind of smash and grab. Was it a smash and grab just in terms of being camped on the box being like, we're comfortable here? Yeah, I mean, Frank Lampard actually said afterwards, they almost incite you to cross. I've never heard a manager say that before. It's like, you know, they want us to cross.

3:33And so we have to get the right bodies in the blocks. We have to deal with that in a certain way. Because when they cross, they've got Semi Ajayi, John Egan, Nobel Mendy, who's been a really good signing so far. Harrington, when he came on, they just headed everything clear. And obviously, you know, they're not the first team to sit deep in counter-attack. But the more the game goes on, the more desperate Coventry got, the more the three people forward the more space there was for them to exploit and it happened a few times in the first half but there were three chances in the second half one of which Liam Miller scored from on the break in the 82nd minute he'd done almost exactly the same 10 minutes earlier and missed the chance bobbled it just wide of the post and he had another one where good exchange of passes quick, incisive Ryan Giles has got a great left foot across the back post Balumi just couldn't quite get on the end of it so they had the three best chances in the second half so you know I don't think it's right to say they didn't deserve to win this game.

4:28You look at all the stats and the possession and everything and the Coventry fans who turned up hoping to see a win on home soil in the Premier League for the first time in 25 years. Yeah, they'll feel it's a smashing grab. Hull just did what Hull do. What about Coventry then? Because we saw probably some listeners as well saw on your social medias the great fanfare before the start of the game. The enemies playing. Great. Raucous scenes and then they lose 1-0 at home to Hull. what went wrong here for them? They just lacked that kind of creative spark and the first 15 minutes actually they came out of the traps and they had a few half chances the one you had three half chances I would say in the first half one he headed over one he headed straight at the goalkeeper and then that one but it was a tough one and it could have snuck in at the back post but it didn't but beyond that not a lot and you're right they do like crossing the ball into the box Rudoni was back in the team this was his first start he was on the bench at Arsenal I think he's one of the players who can make the step up and make an impact in the Premier League Wum Chuana looks lively but the end product wasn't there they couldn't get him behind Hull and when they threw it in the box as I say Hull looked like they could defend their own box all day long So having seen them live in the Premier League do you get the sense that it is sustainable or it was freakish?

5:52Do you get the sense that this is how they're going to dig in and see out the season and finish outside the relegation places? I mean, this is the way they're going to dig in and try and see out the season. Whether it's sustainable is another matter. I mean, the back three are great. They'll come up against teams who are better at pulling them apart and finding spaces. And there's one-on-one battles like Giles is great. Got a great left foot and great going forward defensively and 1v1 him and Coyle a little bit suspect. I don't know if it's sustainable I don't know if it's going to keep them up, but it's going to give them a chance.

6:23I wanted to mention Oli McBurney because centre forwards are so important, particularly for teams that come up. You need someone who can guarantee goals. And I think with McBurney, there was certainly a question mark about how he's going to adjust to the Premier League. He's been there before, but can strap it down again. And I think from seeing bits of this game, and you'll have seen him much closer to hand than me, but the way he can link the play, the way he seems to have settled into the Premier League already, just knitting everything together, particularly in those counterattacks, it feels like he's quickly establishing himself as their figure point, their guy to play around.

6:56And just the contrast with Coventry, you do need someone to provide that sort of cutting edge. I want to bring in Ipswich as well. Losing at Manchester United, but not a 5-2 game in my opinion. It was actually very tight and they probably could and probably should have been 1-0 up at our time. But just thinking about the kind of promoted teams and maybe some of our preconceptions, not just ours, but I think everyone who follows football, fans and pundits alike. It's at least, the whole story does at least give us a little check, doesn't it, about modern football and what we think and what we expect on the pitch.

7:27Because I think, I'm not digging you out here, you said, I'm worried about the three teams this season not being able to do what Sunderland and Leeds did last season. And I think a lot of other people said in different shapes, basically the same thing. I think we all did. I think we all did. It at least gives us some belief that we might have some good storylines at the bottom of the table, a bit more fight than we expected. In my many, many hot takes that I listed in my intro, are we getting a little bit carried away by being like, oh, Hull have cracked it, they've done the Premier League. Yeah, no, I wouldn't get carried away like that.

7:59The one positive you would say is that my prediction were based on the fact that I couldn't pick the teams that they were going to finish above. And now you've seen two rounds of fixtures, only two rounds of fixtures. But I'd be worried about Palace and I'd be worried about Fulham. So they've got some hope. And I'd actually say that Ipswich look like they're going to give it a much better crack this time round. we kind of thought of that beforehand Coventry are the ones you worry about a little bit they yes it was Arsenal in the first game and the thing is they're such polar opposites these two games they play against the champions in their opening game and then they play against the team that everyone writes off and thinks are relegation favourites like their approach in the game has to be so different they were the dominant force and everyone thinks that Coventry came up being the dominant force that wasn't the case as you and I know from talking about the EFL they're quite a kind of flexible side they didn't have a possession dominance that so many champions have had in recent seasons.

8:49So they'll prefer being the underdog team. This was actually them out of their comfort zone a little bit. So nothing to get too worried about for Coventry yet, but certainly a really, really positive start for them. Yeah, we'll come on to whether Coventry needs some signings. Let's go on to Ipswich, Manchester United then because lots to like about Ipswich. It's a very strange thing to say, isn't it, when they've lost 5-2 at a big club like Manchester United. But I was really impressed, particularly with their first half performance and moments in the second half as well. Julio Nciso, I think, is a player that we're going to love watching.

9:18Having watched him run around and dive for Paraguay during the World Cup, you're like, hey, this guy can actually really play. Maybe you should have given him the ball a little bit more. Alison, what do you think about that and carrying that theme through of these promoted clubs, just offering themselves and all the rest of us a little bit of hope that actually it won't just be the kind of three straight back down? I mean, you hope that it shouldn't be that way because there's more at stake and there's more to feed into the narrative than the fact that you've just been promoted. If they're well managed, which I actually think all three new Premier League clubs are, I admire different elements of each manager, but there is something admirable about each of them.

9:56And if they're able to create a sense of self, a strong identity, that's probably the hardest thing about managing a club that's been promoted is making them believe that they belong there. And I think that was what was distinctive about Ipswich's first half performance at Old Trafford was they definitely look like they belong there. And CISO was expressive. You know, that was infectious for the rest of his teammates, I feel. They felt like, well, why not? Why not have fun at Old Trafford? Other people have. We can do this too. And then the momentum switched and the better team won. But the key is to maintain the sense of we're special because we got promoted, not we're lacking in something because we're a promoted team.

10:40Yeah, it's definitely a lot for Gary O 'Neill to sort of take from that game because, I mean, the swing in that game from the first half to the scoreline we ended up getting, pretty unfortunate. I mean, the second goal is the handball. The first one is just a slip. It's that slip from Nunes. And up to that point, it's Ipswich were creating chances. Senna Lamans, who's having to make all the saves. Slip is 1-1. And then the second goal is it should really be ruled out for handball because it's gained a decent advantage, in my opinion. But obviously, that's not how the law works. By the law, it's right.

11:13But it's a deflected cross that's gone in and a 2-1 down. And the momentum shifts in United. The crowd are up and the mood changes. but if you're Gary O 'Neill and you look at that and you take that yes it finished 5-2 it would do because the game the whole dynamic of the game changes but there's plenty for him to take for his players to be like look two games in we won the first one against a team that overperformed last season and went to Old Trafford and played really well for 45 minutes and gone unlucky I mean they're going out half time 1-0 up different story I think You need the new signings to work as well fundamentally that's probably the most important thing because they've all invested a lot of money now and the team whose signings make the biggest impact will have the best chance.

11:54And Nciso has clearly been the star boy so far. I'd say Fatahou and Maeda had glimpses in his media, feeling like positive, real positivity out wide. Maeda in the first half in particular, Fatahou kind of burning Luke Shaw. And Emerson actually putting himself about, he's young, he's a bit raw, but he had a positive start with a kind of tap in that would have given him confidence last week. I think he you know he certainly wrestled Harry Maguire a lot and Diop and Lukic look like you know what they are experienced at the level so there's definitely a lot to take for it I'm still slightly concerned about whether they can how many goals are they going to concede basically Leif Davis was someone again we spoke about in EFL we loved him at that level again defensively I'm not sure about him at that level they've moved Darashe out to right back he's not right back Graves had a really torrent skin a few minutes in the second half.

12:50I'm still slightly unsure about them at the back. But we're still sad. I mean, they've just signed a World Cup one, haven't they? Palacios, that unveiling video where he's driving a tractor. Yeah. But we're talking about teams getting promoted. They're decent quality players. NCISO is one of them. A busy couple of hours as well before the end of the transfer window. We'll come back to that in just a second then. On to Manchester United and it did all turn potentially on the slip and a brilliant finish from Bruno Fernandes. We'll have to do a little nodding. Bruno Fernandes quite good at football isn't he and seemingly getting better as well quite remarkable but this handball I mean we could we could easily spend the entire show just shaking our heads and verging on tears is there a more stupid rule in football than this one is the only question it's changed so much isn't it this is one of the things with VAR that the rule just it keeps being moved because we look at it like it's one of those decisions you look at it and go well that should be handball but I'm not completely averse to VAR not interfering as much like the referee hasn't seen it a different story but if you've seen it just is handball he's got both hands i think it's all this stuff about unnatural positions and does it cause anything further down all of those things and yes and then just because he shanks a shot and it's going wide is that oh well that counts actually it's also and i had this with the balagan incident in the world cup of where the commentators and it's not against them but there's this acceptance it's like we've all been fooled into going this is normal this is normal you had gary neville and i think peter drury go well i I think there is a case, isn't there, Gary, that this could be allowed because the shot was going well.

14:18Have you heard yourselves? What on earth are you on about? It's handball. Gregor, am I losing the plot? A little bit, Tom, yeah. We've known that for a long time. You're right. Yeah, I honestly don't know what to say. The technicalities of certain laws are just absurd. They create absurdities on the pitch. But that's because of VAR, isn't it? Things like this are because of VAR. Well, the laws change because of VAR. Yeah, that's what I mean. So they keep changing a rule. that isn't designed for things. This isn't black and white. It should be subjective to the guy on the field. But because of the existence of VAR, this is why it happens.

14:51Yeah, if he didn't give that ball, if he missed the handball, you can forgive a referee. I can for not giving it. I get what everyone's saying. Yes, it's blatant, but his arms were across him. It wasn't out of the body and it was like, I'm not sure he gave him an advantage. If his arms had been by the side, it would have hit his chest and probably fallen in the same place. I'm not infuriated or enraged by there not being a handball there. It's what happens after that. That is bizarre. How long have I been off? And what happened to you while I was away? Last week you were being nice about Chelsea and now you're not upset about this handball rule.

15:22Something very, very strange going on. No, in real time. When you have the benefit of a replay. Thank God for that. Of course you're going to give it. But if the ref doesn't give it, no problem. You've been brainwashed as well. Flip it around. Vaughn not intervening. I don't think... My issue with it is over interference rather than complete scrapping. But that's not even... It's just the like, that's handball. That rule that out. Carry on. So far, the first couple of game weeks, it's been fine, hasn't it? Yeah, fine, until this, when it's like... Yeah, but that's not VAR. Well, it is VAR, as I said.

15:51A fairly key moment in a game that Ipswich will be like, well, that doesn't go in. They didn't intervene. They shouldn't. They didn't change the rule. They left it to the referee. Truly, truly terrifying. I don't know what's going to happen. My issue is with the rule, but that is to do with VAR. So, yeah, it's complicated. It's all the same. Anyway, Kobi Maynou and Marcus Rashford, who was more impressive for Manchester United, do you think? Because I think it's a tight call. I was talking with Paul Hurst this morning about it obsessed with the second coming of Marcus Rashford at Manchester United.

16:15I want it to happen. I think it could be one of the great storylines of modern football. Well, he got fated by the fans. Yeah. So that's a good thing because I just really couldn't get my head around the fact that they wouldn't want him back given his history with the club. And I think that had an impact on him, the player, because he's looked a little bit inhibited, I think, of late. He shed that inhibition and we saw more than Marcus Rashford that we love. Yeah. I don't think he's quite there yet. Not yet, not yet. But if he started on the trajectory, that's absolutely brilliant. But I think Kobi Omenu was the star of the two.

16:51Yeah, okay. Because he was quietly influential. Quietly influential. Yeah, there's a thing about midfielders. Some of them have big egos and some do not. And some are quite happy to just be knitting everything together, finding those clever little passes, knowing when not to try and find a clever little pass, just to hold on to it for a second too longer, wait for things to develop try and control control the pace of the midfield he was very he's young and he was very mature in that sense he read the game very well yeah he's progressive yeah like he it carries it's not always about the way the progressive passes sometimes you'll get it and you'll you'll wriggle free of a of a midfield opponent and break the lines that way he's good really good at that and it's not all about using his body it's about kind of I know great technique a lot of the time he's a really like talented player so So, yeah, I was impressed.

17:42I think he was the most impressive player after Fernandes. You didn't like the midfield? No. Well, I think they played well. I just don't think the make-up going forward is great. So you don't think Maynard and Tielemans is? Not than last week. Yes, but still you had in that first half, you had runners just running straight through the middle of them. You need the Belieber type to be in there as well. I don't think Tielemans and Maynard together, they're not destructive enough. But you have that. Maybe in this game it's fine. I think you're probably right, aren't you, that it's Maynou and Tielemans on one side and Belaver and Santos on the other side, isn't it, in terms of the profiles of players?

18:18Yes, yes. And I think that worked, that you can get away with in this game. Yeah. But I don't think you... There's also a question about Michael Carrick and his coaching, because Middlesbrough are a team that gave up a lot of chances in that fashion when he was a manager. As in risks in the middle of the pitch? Yeah, but if you want to call it risks, I think it's just openness. Right, OK. so we didn't see that so much last season but that was probably because he was a bit fortunate that Casemiro came back to it and started to play like we all knew he could yeah Mane has also got that thing of like a brilliant thing to watch in a football earth where you go oh my god oh wow like there's a moment where he takes the ball and you're like he's getting mugged there was a moment in the second half where I think he had three Ipswich players around him and he just kind of just danced through the middle and you're like I can't do that a really really special What would we make of Manchester United?

19:07You're obviously beaten against Hull, winning this one, perhaps not quite 5-2. But you're looking at them going... You praised them on the show, Alison, last week. No, I didn't. Well, you said at least you could see them looking. Oh, yes. No, I could see there was a class team there. And what really annoyed me was that they didn't respond to how things went against them. There was no gear change. That was going to be my follow-up there in this one. There was a gear change. There were several gear changes. And that was impressive, to go from no gear change at all to them moving up one gear when you had to, and then another gear in which to show off and be rather brilliant and attractive to watch.

19:39So having gone into that game with a bit more pressure than they would have expected to at home against Ipswich and to go behind, you then felt they need a gear change. And we got more than one, which was wonderful to watch, having seen it just not happen the week before. And at least at that top end of the pitch, it makes sense, doesn't it? You look at that and that's why I keep banging on about Marcus Rashford on that left wing, getting the ball out to him as an outlet makes sense. you've got Mbumo on the other side whatever option in the centre you're looking at going this is good this makes sense this is all logical when you think about what there was last season they will at least be in games and cause teams problems even if they do give up some chances won't they Greg?

20:17Yeah definitely I mean we're skirting around Fernandes as well but like it's an extraordinary performance the ball over the top for the last goal was just sublime and the conditions as well yeah like I was thinking about watching this game I remember we had the conversation maybe a year ago or you know when there was talk about whether they were going to sell him and I remember I was quite strong I'd sell him there's often been times because it's been such a difficult period for Manchester United while he's been at the club where his attitude his demeanour all the things that you don't expect from your captain kind of been a real turn off for me and a lot of people I was like sell him I think take that money because it was a good offer at the time and reinvest it but you watch him and you think about his numbers and what he's done, as I say, in teams that have been so sub, you know, below the level of previous Manchester.

21:08And you think he could have been great, great Manchester United teams. He could have been in those teams. And he's really unfortunate that he's not been. So yeah, I think he's 32 soon. Just got player of the year. You're right, he is getting better. So while they've got him in the team as well, and those players around them that are now getting closer to his level, they're always going to have a chance to score on goals. Still got worries about them at the back. Yeah, really interesting stuff. Let's talk about the potential for some transfers, then mentioning the idea of selling Bruno Fernandes Manchester United fans.

21:36We'll be very glad that didn't happen. There's lots of clubs, I think, that could be on the brink of having good seasons if they are maybe busy in the next couple of hours before the deadline shuts. Sunderland winning crucially, I think, against Fulham, but Fulham losing, again, two defeats for Alvaro Alba Loa. Leeds drawing with Brentford. I would say that's the hipster derby of this season, isn't it? Everyone's got to love Leeds and Brentford. Leeds and Brentford. We love Leeds and Brentford. Could they make one or two more signings? Everton drawing at Bournemouth. And we should start with that.

22:07A remarkable win for modern football fans. Harrison Alston. Not being sold for the sake of FFP because Everton fans were up in arms. It's the best story of the transfer window so far, isn't it? Just how a club should be run, yeah, and how the football world should be operating. There are worse ways of it operating than clubs listening to fans more, though, in terms of the modern state. I like David Moyes' answer to the question after the game too. He's like, football fans aren't always wrong. I'm an Evertonian. You should remember that. So basically, fair play to you guys and I agree. Thanks, lads.

22:40Yeah, thanks. But hasn't that done his season the world of good? Because there were a lot of fans who were like, David Moyes again, boring. And now he's like a cult hero immediately. Just for saying that one word. Evertonian. Although if they're sell and die and sign the Charleston, and that will not do their season in the world of good. True, true. We will see. So then mentioning some of those clubs there, because I think like Sunderland are a club that you feel like, I was speaking to Martin Hardy this morning, they'd like one or two more signings. They've got European football. That was a key win, I think, for Regis Lebris, getting that win at home.

23:14Leeds, other teams. What kind of move, is there a move that we'd like to see happen before the end of the summer window? Or is there a club that you're like, I'd really like them to sign a player because they are a striker away or a midfielder away. Gregor? Yeah, that's been my take about Leeds since the start of the season. I just feel like looking at them, it would be mad to rely upon Dominic Calvert-Lewin staying fit again for almost the whole season as he did last season for the first time in years and years. I hope he does, but it would be mad to rely upon that. And if they sign, I know they're trying to sign another striker, but if they sign another striker, then I think they look like they've got a really good squad.

23:53They've got backup in defence and they've strengthened. Harry Wilson coming in is another one of the connective players. And I like Okafor as well in one of those positions behind the striker. And they look like last season, the journey they went on, they're kind of continuing it. They feel like they know they belong at the level now. Just relying on him is a risk. We talked about the teams that we should worry about. And they were mentioned, I think, at the start of the season, but now probably even more so. And both Palace and Fulham fit into that. Palace feel like they're being unpicked a little bit.

24:23I mean, you could say, I mean, Villa have been unpicked completely, but they are signing players to cover their position a bit. But you do worry a bit about Palace, particularly with Daniel Munoz potentially going to Nottingham Forest and how important he was to them last season. And both Palace and Fulham tend to do their business late. That's been sort of their trademark, really. They always end up doing things late. And they actually, I think, both need to do some decent work in the next 48 hours, really. I know Villa Palace are about to sign a centre-back who's joining Chelsea next summer, but they're loaning him from Atalanta because they can't loan him directly from Chelsea because they've already loaned Axel de Sassi from Chelsea.

25:04Make sense of that, if you can. So they're reinforcing at the back. Fulham need a right centre-back who's quick to fit in with this very radical stylistic change under Alvaro Abelola, and I'm reasonably concerned about how that adaptation's going to go, and I think losing to Sunderland won't particularly help. So I think both of those, without saying, oh, they need a specific thing. I don't know if Fulham were after centre-back and they might need a right-back because Kenny Tettis might be going to Everton. Possibly another forward and Palace, obviously, in different positions as well. But they do need to do something.

25:39Yeah. Alison? Well, moving on from that, I think actually one of the big, most important signings would be if Munoz did go from Palace to Nottingham Forest. because we've had the conversation here where I've tried to claim that we had an argument, didn't we? I don't know who's here, but Glasner was not wedded to three at the back because he told me his favourite formation was 4-4-2. And lo and behold, he seems to be now wedded to three at the back. And so maybe he was pulling the wool over my eyes slightly. But for that to work and for him to break the mould and to be a successful long-term, relatively long-term manager at Nottingham Forest.

26:15Last of season, Oliver. Yeah, exactly. That would be remarkable, wouldn't it? But I think Munoz was so key to that system working at Crystal Palace. If he was to get Munoz, which looks likely, I think, I sort of got the impression the Palace fans were applauding Munoz goodbye when I went to see them on Friday night. That, I think, would be the final piece in the jigsaw for Glasner to be a successful manager at Forest. Interesting stuff. We're going to talk about that just after the break. mine, Jack Grealish, anywhere. But why not Sunderland in the Europa League under the lights, Jack Grealish shimmying about scoring a late equaliser or something?

26:53That'd be really nice, wouldn't it? Anyway, loads more still to come in the second half of the show. We'll be discussing those big clubs with nothing wrong keeping you on your toes, starting with Hull and the little lads. We're going to be talking about the big clubs in the second half of the show. We've got a little quiz question to take us there. Virgil van Dijk became the oldest Liverpool player at 35 years and 52 days to start their first two Premier League games in a season since who in 2001-2002? Find out after the break.

27:28Hi, this is Brooke DeVard from Naked Beauty. I am always looking for ways to elevate our daily rituals, and the Kohler Smart Toilet is proof that design changes everything. It's this stunning sculptural piece that feels like quiet luxury for your bathroom. It totally transforms your daily ritual into something elevated with customizable cleansing and touch screen controls. It's functional art that makes your space feel cleaner and more intentional. A modern home deserves a modern toilet. Experience the difference of Kohler smart toilets. Find more at Kohler.com.

28:14Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clarke and I've got Peter Rutzer, Alison Rudd. I'm back with a bang, Gregor Robertson. Straight in. We barely made it to the break before he came in with the answer to the quiz question, which was? Gary Mack. Gary McAllister. 36-year-old Gary McAllister in 2001 too was the previous oldest Liverpool player before Virgil van Dijk. We're going to talk about Liverpool in just a second. But let's start the second half of the show with Tottenham 0-0, Newcastle 2. Very interesting game, this one. How far on the hot take-o-meter are we going?

28:50Because our colleague Tom Allnut in his match afterwards was saying, listen guys, don't get worried. Tottenham, it'll come good. It'll come good. Roberto De Zerbe, lots of new players, new signings still coming. Marmish has only just joined. Give it time. But the temptation is, it's happening again. It's happening again. Where are we at? Pete, start with you. I thought it was interesting after the first game of the season against Brentford that Deserthi comes out and talks about fitness. Having been there on pre-season and then just seen how cautious he was about basically playing anyone when they were in Australia, it's not particularly surprising that then they don't start the season particularly fit or as fit as he'd want them to be.

29:35I do agree with Tom. The problem is, yes, it will take time and they'll adjust to new players in a complicated system. You just, there's baggage, right? There's baggage of the last two seasons. And the longer you end up in a very slow start, the harder it is to stop the doubt creeping in. I think this performance wasn't as bad. It does feel like there's teething problems, right? Just in terms of the way they want to play. They're creating, but not creating loads. And they're creating lots of high-quality chances. They're being unpicked quite easily. That's what was concerning, and particularly how direct Newcastle were.

30:13It was very obvious that Jaesler wanted Alanga to just keep stretching that defence and doing it very successfully. That's the concern. That's also part of the problem, isn't it? Because I was thinking, trying to be measured and go, no, there's teething, there's time. And you're like, hang on a minute. The bloke in the other dugout has been there two minutes has sold all his players and has come here with a very simple tactical plan and it's worked beautifully and has got three points. The other thing with De Zerbi is that it is a few years since he was last in the Premier League with Brighton, with his style of play, which is about baiting the press.

30:42Everyone presses now. Everyone goes man for man now. That unique aspect to De Zerbi-ism isn't quite there in the same way. So you've got this adjustment and you've got a system that's going to have to evolve with a Premier League that's more physical, more direct, more intensive. So there's a little unknown there. about how this will work. So that's the other lingering. I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Pete's right, everyone does press. Particularly when it's goal kicks, you go for a man for a man. But they're less dogmatic about it now. They often sit off. So people aren't going to play the game that the Zerbe wants them to play.

31:17That's why Tony's written about this morning how Kinski was standing on the ball playing a five-yard pass to the centre-half, another one back, and they're doing it for a few minutes. Brighton used to do that, and they would try and, you know, there'd be moments, like periods where it was like nothing was happening. And then they would play the incisive ball. Like, as Pete's saying, the game's kind of evolved a bit in the last few years and how opponents are going to, you know, respond to De Zerbe's play is going to be interesting. Like having said all that, I think Tom, you know, Tom made me think about it differently with his analysis piece, because he's right.

31:51He just lists the four players they now have. Marmouche Solanke Kulisevsky Madison Odeber Savio Tell Kudus Xavi Siemens like clearly some of these guys are out for a while but they'll become a period in the future like not too distant future where you're looking at all their attacking options and going this is a lot different to last season or the season before On the other hand I mean why just because you're called Spurs just because of your history what's more relevant surely is that two successive seasons you finish 17th that is like an illness that is like someone saying I'm going to run the marathon and someone says yes but you you were seriously ill for a couple of years why do you think you can run the marathon well you know because because because my mother ran the marathon and I used to run really well at school okay but you've been seriously ill for a couple of years it's they are they it is there in the fabric of the club now that and you can feed you can feed from the even from the telly you could tell the fans were starting to get nervous they were leaving early not like at 70 minutes but they were leaving before the final whistle and you sort of think oh no it's going to start again they're going to start feet the negativity from the stands will feed into the players they their muscle memory is of defeat is of failure it is not a victory just before you come in greg i just want to bring in there because um chris who's a regular listener and often gets in touch, sent me a very long email, which was head titled, Spurs week two, am I in a dream or a nightmare?

33:26And he laid out how he'd often, as a Spurs fan, dreamed of these summers when they would finally spend loads of money, and it had actually happened. And then he said, but even though it wasn't a dream, it was a nightmare because the season started and we started playing football. And there is the problem. It's not fantasy football. This team actually have to play together, to fight together, just basic stuff really, and to try and stay out of the injury room, but we're actually worse than last season. He then goes on to make lots of other points, as he often does. But I mean, just before you come back, Greg, I wanted to bring in a Tottenham fan there to Alison's point, because there is a lot of baggage here, isn't there?

34:01Yeah, and I was just going to say that Bill Edgar and his column today pointed out the moment they contracted the illness. In November 2024, since November 2024, when they won 4-0 at City under Ange, they've picked up 60 points in 66 Premier League games. Wow. That's extraordinary. So Alisson's completely right. They've won three of their last 23 at home. They were a really bad team for two seasons. And, you know, De Zerbe came in and just kept them up. I didn't think he was going to for a long time. And yes, they've made a lot of sign-ins. A lot of them, you know, I look at a lot of them, almost all of them, and think that's a good sign-in.

34:39Like, we can talk about the values and we have done we did last week's show they've gone bananas Tonali 100 million Savio 75 gone to 85 crazy but they're upgrades on what they've had and they're filling holes massive holes they had in their team and they've done that at the back too so I think they've done a lot of good business De Zerbe is clearly frustrated already and he's asking for time and it might take a bit of time but I think Spurs are in a better position than they have been in a long time but another repeat from last season is that the away team go to this, what is widely considered the best, the best stadium in Europe.

35:20They go there and instead of being, they're not intimidated. Yet again, the visiting team, in this case, Newcastle, enjoyed themselves enormously. The acoustics were built wrong because you can hear the away fans really loud and really clear. There's a connection between the away fans and their team on the pitch. And it was, it's a bit, it's a bit like it's going to end up being the place that away fans want to go to the most because you have a wonderful time, the facilities are fantastic and you can be heard and the home fans do not drown you out and there's something about the way it lifts a visiting player walking out into that glorious stadium.

35:59Instead of thinking, you know, this is tough, they just think, oh, I'm going to have a really good time today. And that's on De Zerbi to change that. Well, they have a mentality problem. But again, Tom Walnut asked Deserby about this after the game. And he said that when you lose a goal, he still thinks they're fragile. Tom wrote about that all last season, how fragile this team is if they go behind, their heads drop. And it's still the case. A big part of that is the stadium. It's undoubtedly. So it's not easy to overcome. And Deserby keeps talking about the need for them to become a team. He's been saying that sounds like a broken record already.

36:31It's only two weeks in. And then you say, oh, how do you do that? And he goes around the houses. But that's not an easy thing to say. Tink's team. Yeah. In terms of Newcastle then, they do look like a team. Quite simple tactics, but very effective. It's been a good start for the new manager, hasn't it, Pete? Yeah, I needed it. Yeah. Because of how difficult the summer's been, I think there was a lot of negativity towards what the team might look like. Uncertainty about Geisler himself, but he's come in, he's got two very quick wins on the board, clever wins, I think, as well, in terms of the way he's set up.

37:07seems to have built quite a good bond with his players quite quickly I think you can see that by the way they sort of interact with each other and yeah I thought they were very smart in this game very very very direct not sort of wedded very pragmatic and there's there's some interesting players in that group you know we still haven't seen like the best of Johan Wisser though he was a fantastic player at Brentford and obviously first season with injury there's more to come from a few of them and a lot of them will be like well we don't need these guys we don't need the guys who've left I like him too I think he's got a bit about him hasn't he he's quite you know he's a bit of a who's this guy coming from Saudi I think Salzburg before that Red Bull 38 you know he's confident and that's that's a bit jarring at first but he's backed up and he's he's got a bit about him so I think he'll be an interest in addition to the Premier League and as Pete said yeah the kind of simplicity of the tactics and he's not you know he's explicit about it he says he talks about verticality and you know direct and intensity and all that kind of stuff and Alanga's the perfect player for that he kept doing that hand movement brilliant that kind of twirly hand movement it's like spin and get him behind every time that Nico Gonzalez in particular got on the ball and my goodness having Alanga running behind you is tough good start for Newcastle testing times for Tottenham where do we fall on the hot take on a with Liverpool and Andoni Iriola then a draw at home at Anfield in terms of other crowds and things that can have a big influence on the team.

38:36This is another one. Is it not, Alison, in terms of where they head into this season? Lots of questions, lots of enthusiasm, lots of hope with Andoni Arreola. And of course, we expect that Bradley Barkler will be joining them very, very soon in terms of actually you might have already joined by the time you're listening to this. Okay. But what are your thoughts in terms of the big, big hot takes from the opening weeks of the season? Are we quietly pleased, confident? Is that scoring? Hope or a few little doubts and thoughts coming in. Just for anyone not watching on YouTube, Pete and Gregor have just lent in across the table to stare intently at Alison to be like, is she going to go for him?

39:19Let's find out. Alison? I said all along it would take time and it is taking time. I mean, even when Izak was interviewed afterwards and asked what is it like playing under a new manager, he was like well it takes time and this is exactly what happened at Bournemouth the players have to get used to Antoni's very rigid in what he wants and where he expects you to you know it's like positional he wants you to every player to play slightly differently than they've ever played before and they have to get used to that so I am not first of all I'm not surprised at the start not being overwhelmingly brilliant but I you mentioned Izak I felt like Liverpool were playing with 10 men for most of the game.

40:03And it's not like people say, oh, yes, but Erling Haaland doesn't have many touches. But Erling Haaland has an aura and a presence and a threat and makes defenders really scared. Isaac has none of those. And I think the big city costs so much money. There is a pressure on Iola to try and make it work. When I think, honestly, if I rule the world, I'd say it's a write-off. It's not worked. which is why the signing of Barcola I think is really important. It's another big money signing but quite nice for a big money signing to actually have an impact. And so I really hope that Barcola does have an impact because Iseak has not had an impact.

40:42It's all very well a tap-in at the far post. That doesn't mean, oh, it's all over, it's all fantastic now. It doesn't mean that at all. And I think Liverpool have been hampered in their opening two games by, as I say, playing as if they've got 10 men on the pitch. Wurtz, I think there was some sign of improvement. Munoz, I think, looked fantastic. And this is like a repeat of last season where, you know, Eke Tiki. Eke Tiki. Eke Tiki. Yeah. He was the lesser, he was a player that cost less and therefore was less, compared to Isak, he cost less. So therefore less was expected. and yet he outshone the more expensive player.

41:27And I think Munoz has done something similar. He was a relatively modest price and his energy levels are fantastic. And clearly, Iriola really wanted him. And you can see why, because he works so hard defensively and attack-minded and he's got freedom to his play. So that was really heartening to see. So if anyone's panicking about Iriola, I would say don't but I don't think it's going to come good in the next two games it might take four or five Just actually disappointed you didn't answer my earlier question about the move you'd hoped to happen before the end of the window which is Alexander Azak out on loan to someone just to kind of get the vibes going I really wouldn't mind Gregor you look like chomping at the bit to get involved here I thought Liverpool were going to have a sticky season at the start of the season and I haven't seen anything yet to suggest otherwise they've got two fullbacks who can't defend they've got an agent centre-half and goalkeeper and a really good centre-half prospect alongside them but he's inexperienced and Jacque they've got no balance in midfield unless they drop Wurtz and they're about to sell the best player so far this season Gakpo and Isak is the only centre-forward they have until Ike Tiki's fit they talk about dropping him or shipping it alone but who are you going to play?

42:48So the problem was not Iriola there's a the conversation about managers making a move up and you know stature of club and style of play and all that but let's save that for another day give him the tools first he ain't got them yeah and you don't think Barcala is enough of a like Munos is another player on the left that is a huge transfer Bradley Barcala a player you love I love him you love him coming from the back to back Champions League winners in that French team that we all lauded I mean this is a huge huge signing for Liverpool probably the signing of the window in terms of size, star, name, money, all that.

43:26I can't think of a bigger one. And how protracted it's been. You know, Morgan Rodgers and Elliot Anderson, of course, but there's a bit of a glamour around them coming from PSG. This is a huge deal for Liverpool. You don't think, you need to think they need way more than that. Yeah, I mean, he's a great player. You're right in saying I love him. He's so quick, he's so direct. He's, you know, the question marks about whether he can play an entire season, he's young, but he's a brilliant player and I hope he's a brilliant signing for Liverpool. But that doesn't solve any of the other issues. Even if they signed him and, say, Minta and he was fit and they had two wingers on either side who you think they are like absolute A-plus and they're going to start and Isak surely eventually is going to come good.

44:15There's a front three. They still have the same issues. You still have how do you get your midfield balance right and have Virts in the team. I still don't see a solution to that because, you know, so Bozlaib, I'm not sure he wants to be one of the two like that. He's better as a 10. McAllister, the game seems to have got quicker in the last few years and he's not. I think the game passes him by a lot of the time. Graven Virts is a really good signing and one of the things that we praised Liverpool, Arnie Slott for with Liverpool was the way he got that dynamic right. but they've moved so far away from that because of Virts really and then I can repeat myself about the issues from the back they'll surely sign a fullback or two yeah the midfield will probably be quite a talking point I think you're right because even if you think about the midfield that Areola used at Bournemouth and the profiles of those players Christie Adams I mean Scott to a lesser degree but you know there was an intensity to what they were able to do and that reflects how aggressive and off the ball that Arayala wants his team to be.

45:21And it doesn't feel like there's... It's not a natural fit straight away for an Arayala-less style of play. Yeah, 70 % of the ball in this game. Yeah, which is just not... We're going to play the same way. Not the same thing at all. Virts is interesting because you'd think he'd be great at Man City, wouldn't he? Well, it's true. And there's Gagpo that's going there. And Gagpo's been... I thought I was doing all the hot takes. We're getting rid of Alexander Izak and we're shipping off Florian Virts to Manchester City. Absolutely love it. I mean, that would wrap up a mad end of the transfer window.

45:49But, I mean, Wurtz was at Xavi Alonso's, Leverkusen, and obviously they weren't a dominant possession team all the time. That's what learning a lot from Chelsea. So maybe that will fit. But Barclay is a fantastic player, a fantastic signing. He wasn't going to get the same minutes at PSG. He's got Kavaric Scali and Dembele and Dewey. They're not losing him because he's a bad player or anything. They're losing him because they're an unbelievable team and they've got unbelievable options. Watch the PSG play Villa at Villa Park. Was it the season before last? And see how I'm in the flesh in full flight.

46:20My goodness. Yeah, plenty to be excited about then for Liverpool fans, even though there are some teething issues for Andoni Iraiola. Let's finish with a look at Manchester City and Chelsea then. And have we got a title race on our hands? Only two games in and Arsenal haven't even played their second game, yet they take on Aston Villa tonight. But Alison, let's start with City, because you were there on Friday night to watch them beat Crystal Palace. And it turns out that if you do still have loads of good players in your team, it doesn't matter if Pep Guardiola's left. You can still be quite good at football.

46:49That was certainly my view before the start of the season. You lot told me I was wrong. Will I be right? Yeah, no. I mean, it's always when an iconic manager leaves in Pep Guardiola, you think, well, what's going to happen? Watching City in the flesh, what has happened is there's a looseness to City. they're not as minute attention to detail that you've got under Guardiola, they're a bit more, just a loose it's like the strings have been loosened and they're puppets and they're allowed to wave their arms around more but that's the negative side so you feel like they're get-at-able but on the plus side there seems to be more freedom of expression allowed so the ultimate expression of that was Rayan Cherky, who had a poor first half, I decided, I don't know, I decided that if Pep was still there, he would have hauled him off at half time.

47:50I mean, he admitted as much. And he admitted, but he knew that would have happened. And he could sense that Mareska was thinking about it. So he said, hey, boss, give me five minutes and I'll show that I can wipe that from your memory, that first half. And he turned it on in style. and was given the freedom to do that. And I felt that that applied to almost every player in the Man City team. They had more of a license to just be a little bit self-indulgent where they wouldn't have been under Guardiola. And it meant that they were really, it was really enjoyable to watch. Cherki in particular, his first goal, his delicate, close control.

48:33and then I'm not sure all season we will see a more gentle finish to him. It was like, I'm going to tap this so gently in exactly the right centimetre in the right direction and everyone will just be flummoxed. Everyone will fall over. When he turns it on, he is an absolute joy to behold. Balance. Extraordinary. So I do think what we've got with City is, as you say, a lot of very wonderful players who are going to be more expressive but perhaps more get-at-able. But there's enough there for them to be in with a shout for the title or to make the race interesting. Pete, having watched a lot of Enzo Maresca's Chelsea, you sat there listening to Alisson going, he's just not got his claws into them yet.

49:16He's going to suppress that all pretty soon. You'll see come November. Yeah, I think that's... Shirky's so interesting working on the Maresca because Shirky, as Alisson was saying, when he's at his best, it's just a free spirit, isn't he? He plays the game at his own tempo at his own pace. When you allow him to do that, he can run a show. Maresca won't. I just don't think he can allow that to sustain continuously. He is very methodical, very structured in the way he wants his teams to play. Now, he's spent time out of the game, so I don't know. Maybe he's loosened. But he has loosened his chest.

49:49But he's not Pep Guardiola. And even if he may want to have that control, he can't impose it because he hasn't got that backstory. Well, that's, yeah, whether he can impose it or not, I don't know, but in terms of what he wants to do, in terms of his style, he's probably... Pep seemed to loosen up a little bit in terms of like change the way he'd approach it. He was willing to go a bit more direct to accommodate Haaland. That was one of the things you were throwing at me last time I was on, like how will Pep, how will Enzo Mareska deal with Haaland because Haaland is a different type of forward.

50:19So how he adapts is interesting, not just for Haaland, but also especially for Cherki. And how influential Cherki is will reflect how much I think Maresca has evolved from what we saw at Chelsea. Because Chelsea under Maresca started fantastically. Lots in November, December, and we were saying the title race, it was so brilliant going forward. And then it just slowed down a little bit towards the second half of the season. And it was always a little bit more staccato. I don't know if that's the right word, but just a bit more at a measured pace. The chessboard that he wants to see. So, yeah, I mean, he's 100 % the player I'm watching to see how he evolves.

51:00And Phil Foden a little bit as well, because I thought the same about Foden in the second half. Similarly with Rashford, I was seeing him pick the ball up and carry it and you're like, there he is, that's Phil Foden. There he is, we've not seen that for so long. He's back. I just wonder, you know, Marescu's got a new wardrobe, hasn't he? Let's be honest, he's had a bit of a glow up, hasn't he? He's got a few new jackets, he's like, I'm post-Pep me. He's got an opportunity with this squad though and I just wonder whether he'll be a little bit less of the things that you saw at Chelsea because he's like, I've got a chance here.

51:30I've got a chance to be the guy that follows Pep and doesn't cock it up. If I just let him, actually, Harlan, Cherky, you're all quite good, actually. You'd be all right. Gregor, where do you fall between the two categories, camps having seen City a couple of times now? Yeah, I mean, ultimately, he'll do what he thinks is the best thing to win games of football and win the league. That's not always the case with modern managers, though. They want their DNA, their style, which is what Pete's suggesting about him. But the thing that they say is ultimately true. I mean, we might doubt it, but they do it because they think it's the best chance, the best way to win.

52:11And that's what Maresca and everyone else will be doing. The thing that just struck me when Buaddy came on, still if they were to sign Enzo Fernandes, and if they were to sign Gakpo, So he's going to be, it was always the case, he's going to be supplied with a hugely talented group of players. So really the question, still the thing for me was that they've lost all the serial winners. So there's still a group of players who don't have the same sort of experiences as most of them, through this glorious City era have. That's a problem. And then, you know, how Maresca decides the best way to win us.

52:52I don't know. I think he's back on the fence, lads. It's fine. It's all right. It's all right. He's completely back on the fence. Midfield still needs work though, right? I mean, yeah, he's twice as played in the midfield. Yeah. Great player, but... What a world to be in, eh? Midfield still needs work. 100-odd million on Anderson, 80-odd million on Bouadi. Maybe Enzo Fernandes still needs a little bit of work. We'll see if that bit of work comes off in the final hours of the transfer window. Pete, let's finish with Chelsea then. We've all fallen for Xabi Alonso. Well, I haven't. I haven't. Not having it.

53:20Chelsea's still exactly the same. They're still shipping loads of goals, still could be losing games, but you're all excited. Alisson thinks they're going to win the league. What have you made of this game? Another bonkers game. My opinion hasn't changed about Chelsea. They're still, you know, their attack is great. It's going to take time for them to adjust to the way Xavi Lanzo wants to play. But what is so interesting is that it looks very different already. I mean, first game against Fulham, what, 38 % possession. This game, 26 % possession. It's the lowest they've ever had at Stamford Bridge since Optus started collecting the data on it.

53:54This is a big shift. And it didn't feel watching that game where you're, God, they've just been absolutely dominated by Brighton here because they were just consistently creating chances. They were consistently creating turnovers. That fluid attacking from three, you knew as soon as they got the ball back, it's like, oh, something could happen here. Palmer was drifting into spaces on the right. A little bit quieter compared to against Fulham, but Rodgers was just as influential. Joao Pedro had a brilliant game. He missed an absolute sitter and scored an own goal. So it was all over the place. Maybe the Brighton fans got to him a little bit and celebrated in front of them when he did score.

54:27But they've just got that potential to score. And this was a Brighton team that were missing a lot of players. Minty, Mitoma, Ruta, Hinshelwood. This was not full strength Brighton. And they created a lot of chances and scored three goals as well. You come up against better opposition, better strength. so Arsenal next weekend and I think we might see maybe that the gaps that they've got at the back be exposed a bit more because they are conceding chances but I do think that is as much to do with just getting used to a new way of playing you know the back three is new to each other they haven't played as a three together I know Laquise played in the three but they're not quite on the same wavelength yet Does it look like he's going with the three then?

55:10We talked to I mentioned with Glasner and some of the questions we had over this season are these managers wedded to this system? Yeah, you played with a four against Luton, but I think it's, when we say it's a three, it is quite fluid because you have, so take the game against Brighton, you had Giorgio Hato as left wing back, you had Pedro Neto as the right wing back, and it's sort of a hybrid, so Neto will cheat a little bit, he won't do the same recoveries that Hato does. So when they're out of possession, it's a 4-4-2, so I'll swap that around. But interestingly, I think it suits Neto quite a lot because it just gives him space to run into, And that's what Neto was always so great at, was just being able to run at a defender, be incredibly direct.

55:47Obviously scored in this game as well. There was a bit of speculation about his future, but it seems like Xavi Alonso really wants to use him and keep him. It does feel like he's certainly settled on that kind of system. Their midfield was weird. Obviously, Caicedo was injured, came back, came on and then got injured again. It was Lavia and Malogusto playing central midfield. so obviously there's uncertainty about Enzo Fernandes and Chelsea don't want to lose Fernandes without bringing someone in basically so yeah there's a few aspects of it that do feel not quite set yet but the goal scoring potential is fantastic My fumbling answer about City there I think fundamentally it's because I've not seen much of an influence from Maresca yet there was like a lethargy in the community shield they were lucky to get a win against Bournemouth and they were good against Palace but I think Palace were poor they moved the ball quickly and stuff I've not really seen that much that's Mureska's team you have with Chelsea he's absolutely right you look at those stats are jarring but they were in the lead almost all of the games that changes things the game state's important and they look like they close spaces really well they pack the middle and centre of the pitch the only thing this is true for both City and Chelsea is that there will be a legacy of things that were issues last season and one of Chelsea's is, you can't keep a clean sheet.

57:08This is 18 games now without a clean sheet. Emi Martinez doesn't change that. And they don't look as convincing as Hull City at defending their own box. Yeah, Emi Martinez, World Cup winner, doesn't change that? I don't know how much of an upgrade Martinez is on Sanchez. Now everyone else is going to disagree on that because what Martinez does do is he changes the mood, right? They have border keeper who has won things. He's experienced. He's got fantastic presence. You know, Sanchez's presence, he didn't have that presence. If he makes a mistake, it goes within himself. You're not going to get that with Martinez.

57:42But in terms of his actual output, he's still prone to mistakes and things like that. So, look, it's a good signing. I think it does help them. I think it's experience again. I mean, he's become the first starter who's over 30 for 77 games or something silly. So, like, there is clear change here. And Alonso spoke about this afterwards. Like, it's the aura he has. It's the character he has. I think that was equally as important as to why they signed him, as opposed to just ability. Yeah. Final word for you, Alison, then on your predicted title winners. More or less confident after watching two games of Xabi Alonso's Chelsea?

58:17I'm incredibly confident that Chelsea are coming to the side of the ball. Because I think he's inherited an unbalanced squad and I think he's done the best he could possibly do with a defence that is deeply flawed. and he's had to put it together the way he can put it together. And I think we will see him adapt. It wouldn't surprise me if he played four at the back against Arsenal, for example, and decided to try and pack the midfield a bit and compete in midfield because that's going to be one hell of a test for his team. I think he's a highly adaptable manager who's been dealt an amazing attack, a less than amazing defence, and he's just doing it game by game to get the win.

59:02And who isn't? You say, oh, everyone's fallen in love with him. Of course they have because he's producing entertaining football. He's not going to be your mate though, lads. So just get over it, all right? Yes, he makes good passes. Yes, he won loads of things. Yes, he looks good in knitwear. It's still the same thing. No European football. Finished 10th last season. Get that bloody World Club nonsense off you. That was a year ago. Grow up. Leave it behind. Which was the match of the weekend. whole one commentary mill and that is why we that is why we started the show with it and that is why we'll end it as well Peter Rutzler Gregor Ruppsen and Alison Rudd thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening make sure you keep up to date with all the latest transfers news with our live file on the Times website tomorrow me and Gregor will be back with an EFL show too and we'll see you with a regular show on Thursday

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