Managers, Transfers and England update

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0:36Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. This is a two-part show catching up on the latest news in the domestic game and looking ahead to the World Cup warm-ups this weekend. I'm Tom Clark and in the second half of the show, I'll be joined by Hamza Khaliq-Lunat in America. But joining me now to discuss the latest managerial moves and transfer rumours is our favourite former footballer turned journalist, Gregor Robertson, joins us from a mysterious location. Greg, I don't want to tell the listeners exactly where you are and what you're doing, just because, in case anyone gets the same ideas that you're going to brilliantly produce for the Times website, just to clarify, you are going to be delivering the definitive read on one of modern football's great performers, and you met one of your heroes.

1:24I did, yeah. I mean, that's quite a billing, Tom. I've got a lot to live up to now. Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly what this podcast is for. that's the plan in the coming week and I'm currently sitting on a lovely terrace overlooking a beautiful city in Europe with the sun on Mick so it's nice exciting a little tease for you there make sure you're keeping your eyes peeled on the times website and app Gregor will be delivering some brilliant brilliant pieces in the coming weeks Gregor let's get your reaction first of all to some of the managerial moves we obviously discussed Andoni Iraiola's impending confirmation at Liverpool in detail on Monday's show Paul Joyce has written brilliantly about that on the times website we believe and understand that that will be confirmed at any point by the time you're listening to this in fact it might have been confirmed but one of the big news stories in the managerial sense marco silver departing fulham set to join benfica this is something we'd muted with some of our colleagues pete rutzler alison rudd on the regular show throughout the season a massive massive blow for fulham and really interesting for silver that he's getting a big big job in europe but your reaction first on the massive blow that this is for fulham The first thing you'd say is it's probably not that much of a surprise The longer it went without him signing a contract the more likely this was going to happen I feel like he felt that he'd taken Fulham as far as he could and he's probably right He's done a remarkable job when you think about it in the five years winning the championship in his first season finishing 10th, 13th, 11th and 11th in the Premier League never really like Fulham never really fearing relegation under him, even flirting with Europe, you know, regularly and just often kind of tailing away towards the end of the season so he's done a brilliant job and yeah, it's a funny one Benfica's a huge club, it's back in native Portugal you know it led them into the Champions League just, you know, possibly a bit of a Premier League centric view this but it still feels like the Premier League is the place to be but when you when he's we often spoke about is he going to be in the running for one of the big jobs where he can go that little bit more ambition and it's not quite happened for him so it is a really good move and for Fulham it's kind of throws their their future into the unknown a little bit.

3:44Yeah Fulham joining the raft of Premier League clubs looking for a new manager you do wonder as you say slightly teased it there Gregor the idea that maybe Marco Silva thinks well I'm not going to get any of these jobs Chelsea Manchester United Liverpool Tottenham as they come up but you do wonder whether if he has a couple of good years at Benfica maybe that serves to enhance his reputation proves that he can do it in the Champions League maybe that's what he's thinking this again a very Premier League centric view as you say but maybe that's part of his thinking with all due respect to Benfica of course yeah absolutely I mean I would what I would say is fulham have been good for him too he look back his record between 2014 and 2019 he had six clubs he never really lasted more than a year he started started out esteril as this bright young thing i think he was 36.

4:28sporting for a season olympiacos for basically a season hull watford ever and back to back and like showing flickers of a real promise at most of those clubs but but not actually achieving what he set out to, particularly in Hull's case, with not being able to avoid relegation. So there was still a bit of a kind of... We have to remember when he got the Fulham job, they were in the Championship. And yes, he's done a great job, but I think they have been good for him too. They've sort of re-established his reputation as a really, really good coach. But I think having said all of that, you're right.

5:06Benfica is a really, really big club. and if he is successful with them in Europe, which is no mean feat, we have to remember, because of the financial disparity now with a lot of clubs, despite our great history, in comparison to some of the super clubs in Europe and the Premier League teams, it's a big task. But if he does something special there, then yes, that might well propel him into the running for the jobs that we've been talking about. Yeah, really interesting to see who they maybe make moves for Fulham in the coming days to get prepped for another big summer ahead. One club may be making moves to replace their manager Crystal Palace, of course.

5:50Oliver Glasner, after all that success and trophies, leaving the club at the end of the season that's just finished. Gary Jacob reporting on the Times website on Wednesday that Pierre Sage looks set to leave French club Lens just days after being interviewed for the vacant job at Palace. Gregor any reaction to this it's kind of a very Crystal Palace-esque appointment I was speaking to Joe Hare our colleague on the desk you know who's a Crystal Palace fan who was saying well I don't know anything about him but then I didn't know anything about Oliver Glasner either so maybe it's the perfect appointment yeah I mean I'll be honest I didn't know a great deal about him too but I've looked into his career and he was an amateur player he's not got any real playing career of note, been a coach for more than 20 years, working in various clubs and often in French lower leagues in various capacities, worked in Lyon's academy, became their interim manager when Fabio Grosso was sacked in November 2023, qualified for the Europa League that season, got the job and then he was sacked six months later.

6:51So like what is season, last season is the season that's propelled them to this sort of stage. One full season in top-level management, as far as I can see. He had two half-seasons with Lyon, but in that one full season, they kind of gave PSG a scare until April. They were in a title race with PSG until April, and then PSG ran away with it in the end. But finished second in Ligue 1, and he won the Coupe de France for the first time in the club's 120-year history. So it's a pretty impressive solitary season, but it is one full season in top-level management, and he's 47. So it's quite a bold appointment, I think.

7:33And I think there are some kind of possible parallels to be drawn with the style of football he plays. A lot of reading about the fact that he plays a similar formation to Oliver Glasner. Really kind of direct and incisive. I think they've had the most fast attacks in the French League last season. So, yeah, you're probably right. I mean, when you look around at the kind of names that Palace were throwing their hat at, I mean, Iriola was wondering, and that was ambitious, but it would have been a great appointment. There's links with Frank Lampard and Kieran McKenna. It's going to be someone who's not really proven at this level.

8:07That's the likelihood. And I think that's true of Pierre Sage, and he's obviously had a really exciting season. So, yeah, it'd be fascinating to see how it goes. Yeah, really interesting one to keep an eye on in the coming days and weeks. How much more football news will we get before the World Cup kicks off in a week's time? It could be absolutely chaos. else we'll keep you up to date with it all on the Game Podcast and on the Times website. A bit more news away from managers into playing moves. Edison, the Atalanta midfielder, set to be one of the first of five new signings for Manchester United this summer, Paul Hurst reports on the Times website.

8:39But also that Michael Carrick has made it clear that academy players will be used a lot more next season. In terms of Edison being the first of five, Gregor, Paul Hurst goes on to say that he is not the star midfielder that they want. He is seen as a good squad player, would be playing a big part, but is not the superstar midfielder signing that they want. Aurelian Chouamani and Elliot Anderson would be top of their list. News then breaking late last night that we understand Nottingham Forest turning down an initial approach from Manchester City for Elliot Anderson and putting a price tag on him of£120 million.

9:14Lots of ifs and buts and maybes in there, Gregor, so I just wanted to hone in on that£120 million price tag for Elliot Anderson. he's about to start at the World Cup for England alongside Declan Rice Declan Rice,£100 million to Arsenal a couple of years ago widely sung about as being good at half price by West Ham fans Elliot Anderson, inflation hype, a stick of £20 million extra fee on top of what Arsenal paid for Declan Rice do you think that's fair? It's a big amount of money for a player whether he goes to City or United isn't it? It's a punchy figure isn't it? I mean£100 million would be a punchy figure.

9:50I know we're talking about a crazy market and it's inflation has something to a greater effect every year, but crikey, that's some price for... Look, I love Feli Anderson. I've said that many times in the podcast. I think he's a great player, great all-round player, you know, biting the tackle, great vision, great passing, creative. He's an outstanding player, but that's a really, really that's a huge sum of money and actually I think the likelihood is it will put off anyone if really Evangelos Maranakis is sticking to that kind of price or whether it's just like a bargaining tactic, I would hope for Eli Anderson's sake it's the latter I mean I know we're saying that Ederson's a kind of a score player but he's actually the profile of a player that United really really need, he's dynamic that's the thing that they've been crying out for legs, running power that kind of energy in midfield, a ball winner.

10:49That's what he is. I think three or four really good seasons with Atalanta, played a big part in their Europa League triumph. By all accounts, not the best season in the last season. Atalanta really struggled post-Gasparini's departure. He's not in the Brazil squad. Actually, you look at the midfielders Brazil have called up. Pancelotti's called up. Bruno Goumereis, obviously, a great player. but then you go Casemiro, Fabinho and Danilo, there's a lot of nostalgia in those names and it's interesting that Ancelotti has called them up ahead of Ederson, but he's 26 he's entering his prime and from my perspective I've said this in relation to the point where Carrick, United don't need to be signing these megastars and superstars, they need players who really want to come to the club and progress their career and players who fit a profile and a mould and actually something that they need, a hole they need to fill and I think all the signs are that Ederson is that, so particularly when you think about, we'll try and move on to Garty and yes, they've got some prospects coming through, Tyler Fletcher's one of them, hopefully he has a good World Cup and that advances his hopes of getting some more minutes next season even Matthias Fernandes from West Ham has been mentioned, but they're all big, big prices and it's one of these things where getting someone in early now or confirmed now would be really good because a lot of these other sign-ins, particularly when they're from clubs in the Premier League potentially, can drag on right through until the end of the transfer window and that's the last thing that Man United need.

12:26Yeah, absolutely. Really interesting to see what happens there. And as you say, potential for him to be a great buy for United next season. Another story going back to managers now that I wanted to mention, Gregor, Tonda Eka at Southampton. The statements that he released, genuinely quite scary. I thought quite remarkable in terms of his stance and his pose, just staring down the barrel of the camera back at you, really remarkable stuff. But Dragon Solak backing him, Tondareka asking for forgiveness, it's the kind of final remarkable chapter in this story, isn't it? Yeah, and I think Siftan didn't think that that's it.

13:02That's the bit closed. Final chapter, as you say, time to move on. I'm not entirely sure it's going to work like that. I really am not. I think the idea, I've seen even some supporters saying if they win a few games at the start of the season, they'll be forgotten. No one's going to forget this. Certainly no opposition are going to forget it. No opposition supporters are going to forget it. It's going to be an anvil around their neck for as long as he's the manager, certainly going into next season. And then there's obviously an investigation by the FA as well. I mean, it was astonishing. Some of the things Dragon Solak said were pretty astonishing.

13:39and the idea that the intern who has now been revealed in the WhatsApp messages and whatnot showed that he was heavily pressurised into doing something he knew and said was wrong that Dragon Solic has kind of thrown the sort of emphasis onto the intern saying that he should have expressed his concern more strongly that's an astonishing thing to say he said we've offered him a full time job I mean, really? no one's seen or heard from the guy and they're going to offer him a job and have him photographed in the dugout every week next season don't think so and some of the details more details that have emerged about the kind of context of the spying missions too, it was when Gary Rowett was sacked and Craig Short took on interim control of Oxford they wanted to know, that's a potential change of ideas and formation they wanted to know about that, that's important stuff, them switch were training at Eastleigh nearby when they played and someone was wearing an Eastleigh outfit and the whole session was filmed.

14:44And then obviously to find out whether Hayden Hackney was fit or not was the primary reason to go up to Middlesbrough as well. And then they tried to wash their hands of it all and conceal it and it's been a really, really awful episode for Southampton. I think if they think these two sort of appearances one from the owner and one from the manager are going to close the book I think they've probably got another thing coming definitely I'm for one many many reasons I'm excited for Lincoln's season in the championship next year but definitely getting my binoculars down for Southampton away is one of them so yes you're quite right Tonda and Dragon Soul like I'm sorry this story is not going anywhere fast Gregor just to finish up you've got plenty to do you've got to fly back as well we're going to be speaking to Hamza Khalid Luna about the World Cup in the second half of the show but I just wanted to ask you various stories already coming out from the preparations for the World Cup uh Martin Ziegler reporting on the Times website a FIFA U-turn fans banned from bringing water bottles into stadiums don't worry lads it's not like it's going to be really hot but more important than that Gregor I wanted to ask you finally Haiti 4 New Zealand 0 are you getting worried about that opening Scotland game?

16:00I mean, I was worried before, Tom. Do you remember when we said what was our wishes on the show at New Year time? And I was like, just pleased that we beat Haiti. That's still my wish for 2026. Yeah, I mean, I watched the highlights of this and my goodness, the first goal was something special, really. You know, it'll jink into the box and I'd jink over the keeper. The fourth wasn't bad either. yeah and I listened to Michael Grant and the Time Scottish team with Craig Levine that episode this weekend and Michael Grant was kind of expressing I think what a lot of the nation was saying when he feels that while this should be set up for Haiti to give us the great start that we really yearn for given that we've got Morocco and Brazil to come you know the cynic in him and the Scotsman in him is terrified given some of Scotland's past performances against relative Minos and look I have to be honest them beating New Zealand 4-0 has probably made that even worse so yes, great to see confidence is sky high as you can tell Tom bring on Haiti yeah, don't worry we've got another Scotland preview show with Gregor and Johnny Northcroft we can turn it into a full therapy session mate don't worry we can get you all prepped nice and calm for that opening game gregor robertson thank you very much for joining me as always we'll leave it there plenty more to come from the game podcast building up to the world cup in the coming days and weeks and there'll be plenty more in this show in part two i'm going to speak to hamza khalik lunat but we're just going to take a quick break we'll see you in a sec

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18:48Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. I'm Tom Clark. And for the second half of this show, I'm joined by our football reporter and one of the three top journalists following England at the World Cup. It's Hamza Khalid-Glunat. Hamza, for many of us, the season's just finished. For Arsenal fans, there's probably still a hangover from the parade. For you, the World Cup is here. It's ready. You are over there. You are stateside. Tell us where you are exactly and, more importantly, how you are. Hello, everyone. Yes, so myself, Matt and Johnny are here in Miami. Well, just north of Miami.

19:21We're in West Palm Beach. That's where England are staying. They're at a hotel a bit north of us. Very nice spot. Palm Beach, which is adjacent to West Palm Beach, obviously, is where Mar-a-Lago is. So this is, as one colleague suggested to me the other day, this is the plastic surgery capital of the world. But yeah, you've got Mar-a-Lago. You've got the PGA National just a bit north of where the players are staying as well. Very nice facilities where England are training. In fact, those facilities were used by Real Madrid at the Club World Cup last year. When England move out and go to Kansas City for their base camp, that'll be where Portugal will move in.

20:04So yeah, really nice facilities. But the key thing here as well is Miami at the moment is very hot and very humid. I think the official start of hurricane season, even though the hurricanes have actually moved to this part of the US, is June 1st. So when I arrived the other day, I got off the flight, I got to the airport, went towards a taxi rank and it was just torrential rain. Yeah. The day before yesterday, I crossed the road and I was soaked. And these roads are quite big, right? Then you get drenched completely through. And that's the key thing. Right. So you've got quite high heat and extreme humidity.

20:40And England are coming here for that because they want to acclimatize. So, yeah, it's pretty hard work if you go out and try to run. Matt Lawton went for quite a long run yesterday I didn't go with him anyone that's read his course on the super shoes knows that he's very brisk but I think he's suggested or threatened that I should join him so I'll probably go with him today or maybe tomorrow so yeah we'll see how that goes but yeah it's really tough work exercising these conditions Yeah I'm really excited for the update on that Hamza arguably more so than some of the insights you can provide from us on the World Cup but just give that's a great insight into kind of day-to-day life of a reporter on the road from the kind of logistics side and obviously the weather which is going to be a huge part in this tournament in terms of access to this England camp then you've been out there for just short of a week now a good three days or so give the listeners a sense of you know how many how much interaction have you had with this England squad so far have you spoken to Thomas Tuchel have you spoken to some of the players and what can we expect what can you expect to speak to them and hear from them between today's show on Thursday and the game on Saturday so the official access has been a little bit limited um so far that changes as we get close towards um friendlies and then the actual tournament itself where there's a lot more access so uh on tuesday in so england landed on monday they had their first training session on tuesday uh this was a community session so you had local fans a few uh family members and friends and it was around sort of 11 o 'clock midday uh out on those pitches um and after it was quite intense stuff um usually uh thomas tuple isn't too too sort of fussed by the players warning up let's see he he was focusing on them uh in a way that he usually doesn't do usually he just sort of chats for his coaching staff wanders around takes it pretty easy but uh you could tell there's a bit more intensity from the manager here um so yeah after that we had the opportunity to speak to Jordan Henderson, Ollie Watkins, Jordan Pickford, Alex Scott.

22:42Alex Scott's stuff should be released by the time listeners are listening to this podcast. There's a few good bits about Andoni Arayola, obviously, who he plays for at Bournemouth and who's moving to Liverpool. So, yeah, in the following two days, we haven't had official access to the players or the manager. however tomorrow uh we have a pre-match press conference uh with thomas tuckel uh and there should be a player as well that uh that might be put up uh so we'll get the opportunity to ask him a few questions then and then as we get into the tournament itself um so there's two warm-up batches new zealand first and then uh costa rica uh the first one in um tampa the second one in orlando uh after that we get into the tournament and then there's a lot more access so then i think listeners, readers, anyone that's following England will get a lot more England content everywhere and especially from us.

23:37You mentioned Alex Scott a couple of times there. Is he perhaps slightly symbolic of the fact that maybe listeners and England fans shouldn't be putting too much on this New Zealand game in terms of things that we can learn and things that we should take? Obviously, as I've already mentioned, we're off the back of a very intense league season. Are you expecting that on this game on Saturday we're potentially going to see Alex Scott who is of course not even in the World Cup squad playing a part, making his debut and are we going to see a very heavily rotated team and an awful lot of substitutions what can we expect?

24:12I think with this these two friendlies the key thing is conditioning, so getting players up to speed, equalising their loads, so for example some players such as Jordan Henderson, Jordan Pickford, Harry Kane have come from holidays they actually holidayed around this sort of area Bahamas Caribbean in here in Miami in order to acclimatize to get their bodies used to the time zone all that sort of stuff so and then you've got players that have just finished the season and players that haven't played for a couple of weeks so the key here for England is to equalize their playing load and then get them up to speed and condition to these these conditions uh so yeah that's going to be the key here so don't expect any brand new tactical ideas given what we've seen from thomas stuckel over the past year he's got a pretty clear tactical identity anyway uh 433 with a clear number six number eight number ten wide wingers that are designed to dribble and run up their opponents and uh and provide width for harry kane and kane has a pretty loose role um but yeah return to um alex scott so don't expect any change on that front there might be a double 10 at some point and with a six but that's the rough framework and the roles are pretty clearly defined but yeah alex scott um there's a good chance that he might make his debut um he was including the november squads um he was uh overjoyed to be included then but he wasn't called up so he didn't play uh in the matches uh uh against serbia uh and the other team who's at the moment um but then in the march internationals uh he wasn't called up which would have been a bit of a blow to him because thomas tucall named an expanded 35-man squad he in my opinion alongside with adam wharton and jack kingshut were the three best performing young england midfielders in the premier league at the moment uh so none of those got called up um and the interesting thing is uh there is a very small chance that he could still play at this world cup uh because of the four training players that were called up to um add a few bodies to the squad while the arsenal players and dean henderson recover from their um european exploits uh so ethan monary alex scott josh king and ria angamoa um alex scott is the only player of those on thomas tucall's 55 man shortlist uh long list sorry and the 55 man long list um if you're named in that you can theoretically be called up to the squad if there's an injury so yeah there's potential here if someone gets injured fingers crossed no one does get injured obviously because it would be emotionally crushing to to think you're playing at the world cup and not have to miss out at the last minute um but yeah there is a small chance here that Alex Scott could be named in the actual squad should something happen but yeah he's gonna be thrilled to play and I think he represents some of the best qualities of young English players I remember watching him at the under 21 euros last summer and he was fantastic him Tyler Morton Elliot Anderson the way that they played I think we there was a match against Spain actually Morton was brilliant in that match but Scott was fantastic in farming against Germany, which in them won 3-2.

27:28And against Spain, there was a question to Lee Carsley saying, these players look like they were the Spanish ones, the way that they moved the ball around and how effective they were and how silky they were. And interestingly, Carsley sort of bristled about it. He said, well, why would you say that? Why can't they? He hoped that actually one day people would say, well, that looks like an England player. There's a clear identity of combining physical traits with elite technical skill. So yeah, I think he is one of the model players for the future in terms of the type that English football wants to produce.

28:05But yeah, a brilliant player. He should get some minutes. Fascinating position to be in. He's in an own category on his own, just a one-man waiting squad. Really interesting to see. I wouldn't be surprised if he puts in some very good performances and there's a bit of an outcry. Why isn't he not in the squad in the first place? as so often England fans and media do. Just very quickly, Hamza, this could be a very quick yes or no, Tom. Obviously, you mentioned there about, you know, no hoping no one gets any injuries. I've already mentioned several times the long season. There will probably be England fans listening to this thinking, well, you know, it's New Zealand, guys.

28:41Don't be playing Harry Kane. You know, don't be playing Mark Graehy. But with your point about equalising their kind of physical load and stuff, will we expect to see kind of everyone playing, all the big names? um it depends on their individual playing load coming into uh this was like i said so different players are on different plans and that's something we're not privy to during the season actually it's quite easy to guess because when a team's playing three times a week you've got a really good idea of their playing load you can go oh well he played 60 minutes and in game in the first game he played 75 in the second game and then he played 75 again and then you can literally work out his playing load because in between uh the the rest days and they're not really training that much so you can go oh that's his acute chronic workload ratio and see if the player's in a red zone or not however when they're not playing uh you don't see the training load so we're not privy to that there's a little bit of guesswork going on here so i can't tell you which player is going to play 60 minutes or 45 but i think um like i said the key bit here is to equalize the player set the players have different plans at the moment and so their minutes will be adjust accordingly and with friendlies as well the good thing is um when it comes to playing generally you want to do everything in training because it's a controlled environment if you've seen a pal do 10 sprints you go okay that's enough we'll end your session here for example in a match that's different if it's an end-to-end match and this happens all the time in the normal domestic season a player returns from injury it's a high intensity match they do a few too many sprints and they get re-injured a friendly is a little bit different because you could just go that's enough there we'll slow that down it's a bit more like a training session uh so yeah um i think we'll see quite a lot of changes uh it might just be um full rotation uh at halftime uh but it will be pretty bespoke yeah are there any players or positions that you're particularly interested to see on the field um you know we talked to in the big england preview show with matt and johnny about those kind of two or three positions, the number 10, the left wing, and the second centre-back.

30:48Are there any that you're particularly interested to see? Are you interested to see who he starts on the left wing? Any players that you think could make a case with a really good 45 minutes or hour? There's a few interesting dynamics. I mean, you mentioned left wing there. Of course, Marcus Rashford and Anton Gordon are competing for the same position. And ordinarily, even though that's pretty normal, maybe Rashford is ahead, but the the added sort of um dynamic here is that gordon has moved to barcelona and marcus rashford might not be getting his move to barcelona which is a a terrible thing between teammates because it feels like to marcus rashford but his girlfriend's just been nicked right he's gone over to barcelona loved it there and then the club said we don't quite want to pay for that but we will pay for anthony gordon so as in um the fa did put out a picture of the two chatting yesterday on their their instagram uh but it'll be interesting to just see which of those two starts because um whilst they have simple semi-similarish profiles they do specialize in different things marcus rashford's goal threat in particular is directness uh well um yeah directness in terms of shooting compared to um and getting in the box compared to gordon who's a very direct dribbler um yeah the number 10 dynamic of course is really interesting um most people expect morgan rogers to start the first match of the tournament at number 10 jude bellingham um actually to be fair him and marcus rashford in particular when we saw them on monday they looked in really good condition those two jordan henderson as well um looked in really good shape um you're right to pick out the center back uh spot as well i've got a feeling that the first game of the tournament might have a mark gay and um ezra conser at center back um the numbers came out the other day cons are at number two i never read too much into the numbers um i gotta say i was upset about konza having two i don't know about you i'm one of those weirdos that i don't like a number two at center back that really really upset me there's a chance that he might feel it right back he has done it for tuchel before i'm gonna i'm gonna need him to play at least 45 minutes at right back to make it okay maybe you could have a word with tuchel about that that'd be great the only other interesting thing to see i think might be um ivan tony and uh dan but the spec ops players uh just to see how they perform and then how uh if there's any sort of hint of how these special ops will work because um i think as we discussed on the podcast uh last week the evening special um or did i mention i can't remember if i did um but there was a little insight into how england will play uh in in these moments where they're chasing the game uh when you look to the uh japan match and the uruguay match when england tried to score their goals and it brought Dan Bear and Harry Maguire and were swinging corners in that was an insight of the plan if England need a goal um given they scored the set piece Ben White scored the set piece in the first match and then they have a lot of chance in the second there's logic to it it doesn't look pretty but it can be very effective but it'll be really interesting to see how Ivan Tony fits within that um especially on long throws and long balls if there's it'll be really cool to see as well how he might link with Harry Kane if they play together and Harry Kane told thomas tuchel that he likes playing with tony uh so it'll be really cool to see how that dynamic works um last week we also did a piece looking at um with mark gay uh talking about the art of defending and he mentioned his assist for jude belegger with the slovakia match at euro 2024 the the equalizing goal the bicycle kick um and that was a pre-rehearsed routine uh so um they had uh discussed the day before and worked on it that um if they had a throne in that position and Kyle Walker, who's along for a special assist.

34:28And with that group, we'd take it, Gale would try and get the flick on, and then there should be some attackers in behind him to attack it, which there were. So there'll be lots more of that stuff, I think. I don't think they'll reveal all their big plans in one of these matches, but it'll be interesting to see what they do have. Yeah, I think you're quite right to highlight the Rashford-Gordon scenario. You could just see it, couldn't you? Marcus Rashford starts, scores two goals, camera pans to Anthony Gordon, sat on the bench, the only one not clapping. Then on comes Gordon. He just takes the ball on every single time.

34:55watch I'm better than him I'm better than him it could be a fascinating dynamic as you mentioned there with the lovely little bars there was a funny moment in the training session the other day they were doing a little sort of there's a little goal that they were trying to score in and there's a nice little combination play and Anthony Gordon finished it off and Dan Byrne was like that's so Barcelona

35:18maybe that's what Dan Byrne's in there for just to keep everyone nice and measured even if they have got a£69 million move to Barcelona. Hamza, I'm going to let you go because you're a very busy man. I just wanted to finish by asking about the vibes, really, what it was like when you landed, what it's like out in the streets, whether World Cup fever has taken over America yet. Lots of interest before this tournament about whether Americans and Canadians and Mexicans would really buy into this tournament. We're obviously about seven days out now. What's it like? What's it like out there on the streets and in the communities of what you've seen so far?

35:53So in West Palm Beach, which is quite a well-heeled area, you haven't really noticed it too much. At the training session, like I said, there were locals. A lot were very keen. There were a lot of English people as well. I couldn't tell if they were expats or just visiting as tourists. However, yesterday, Johnny and I went to pick up our accreditation. So we actually went into Miami, went to the stadium there. a few more people than you'd expect already picking those sort of things up and you see the world cup 26 banner there's a bit of expectation there um i think as we get closer you will begin to see and feel the builder but as i i don't know what it feels like at home but i think the focus today is probably on the cricket right i've been using this moment as a as a little breather from football um i mean this in a general sense we're not of course but i think uh people back home are probably using it as a breather from football just get themselves ready they might catch a bit of the friendlies uh and see what's going on there but usually just with a um just one eye on it rather than fully committed to it i think um when we get a bit close to the tournament remember england's first matches is on the 17th it's a long way away still uh so i think that feeling is going to amp up a bit later at the moment still a bit sleepy but like i said we're in quite a well-heeled area that I don't think is known for its love of soccer.

37:20But there are loads of, especially the Spanish-speaking people around here who are very keen on their football or soccer, as some call it. And the other thing as well is we just had the first match of the NBA Finals yesterday as well. That's what the US focuses on right now. But yeah, it will turn pretty soon, I think. Yeah, quite right to highlight the Times readers focus on cricket although given the fact that England are currently 61 for five in their first innings that focus might not last too long given that disastrous start for Ben Stokes' side hopefully the footballers will fare a bit better at the weekend Hamza will leave it there for now thank you very much for joining us you can hear more from Hamza and Johnny Northcroft and Matt Lawton our Times team with the England camp in our big England preview show that's already out in the game feed and you can find it on YouTube as well at Times Sport coming up next on the show we have our big preview podcasts looking at rather ambitiously the rest of the world i was joined by tom allnook james gearbrown and paul hurst to talk mbappe ronaldo messi yamal trophy contenders and dark horses and loads loads more make sure you check that one out that'll be out in the game feed and on youtube in the coming days we'll be back on monday with a regular show and then we'll be up and running with our daily world cup shows we hope you join us for all of it we hope you're enjoying these shows do get in touch with me with any thoughts or questions tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk and we'll be back again very soon.

38:44We'll see you then.