North London on top: Can Spurs keep pace, and is this finally Arsenal’s year?

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1:17Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast. From the Times, North London are top of the Premier League after two games with Arsenal and Tottenham both producing impressive performances in their second match of the season. Can Thomas Frank keep up the good times at Spurs after an assured win against Manchester City? And surely, surely Mikel Arteta can have no more excuses for not winning a trophy as his squad strength is shown in a 5-0 win against Leeds United. On today's show, we'll also talk Everton and Jack Grealish, Manchester United, Chelsea, Brentford and Burnley and loads more. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today, we have the senior sports writer and Sunday Times columnist Alison Rudd, the football reporter Pete Rutzler and the former footballer turned journalist Gregor Robertson is here.

2:04Rudd, Rutzler and Robertson, it's like a law firm in here today. Ready to go. Three laughs, get in listeners. We've got them. Oh, maybe we can sponsor our own stadium because Everton Stadium is sponsored by a law firm. Yeah, exactly. Whose would we sponsor? Someone like really low down, probably, hopefully. If you're a very, very, very small, small football club, get in touch with us because Rud, Rutzler and Robertson want to help you out. Let's get straight into it because, as I say, there's loads and loads and loads to discuss on this show. We're only two games in, Gregor. If you think we got carried away last week, listeners, we're two games in now, the game's gone.

2:40North London, top of the league. I was in the office yesterday. Alison, you'll enjoy this. We work with quite a lot of Tottenham and Arsenal fans on the desk, on the production desk and on the editing desk. And I was in yesterday and they were all being so nice to each other. They were being so nice. Oh no, I thought you played so well. Oh no, I thought you did so well. No, so good. And it was so nice to see Gokkeres scoring. Yes, I know. Fantastic. Oh, and I'm so pleased for Thomas Frank. It's all going so wonderfully well up in North London. but it will not last. But it's very interesting, and to be fair to them, they've both got the two types of win that you need, don't you, to do very well in a season.

3:18Got the comfortable win at home against a newly promoted side looking completely dominant and scoring goals. Tick. And a good win away. Tick. So they're flying. We've got a title challenge in North London. Gregor, it's all going off. But let's start with Arsenal, because I think that's the more genuine one. I was watching this game, parading Ediveric Chiazza before the game. injuries but then more strength off the bench goal for a Gokures at last and then a second one Daumann coming off the bench 15 years old they've got it all haven't they? is anyone not looking at this and going I don't know how they don't at least definitely win something surely Gregor?

3:59Well you were struck by the strength and depth and the sort of contrast from last season and even with the injuries to Saka and Odegaard like, Dowman is a joke, it's incredible just to like, just pause for a moment and think this kid's 15 he won't be 16 until December and he goes on and he's just like running leads ragged and the sort of pace and fluidity of movement that he's got it's incredible and this isn't like a one-off moment he's been wowing everyone in pre-season he obviously won the penalty in this game he won the penalty against Newcastle in pre-season he won a penalty against Villarreal in pre-season he's been making cameos that make people go wow all summer and like you feel like this is going to be a a major breakthrough season for him and they've got Mwanyeri as well and then Eze before the game comes in just like this injection of joy into the stadium his face was like just pure happiness with a hint of disbelief as well that was just a lovely lovely sight and as you say Giocare is scoring an absolute carbon copy of you know scores of goals he saw and scored for sporting just that run into the channel cut inside boom goal it was a very very happy day for Arsenal and made happier by the fact that the two injuries don't appear to be as serious as was feared I was just with Dalman just the psychology of being a left back an experienced left back Goodmerson's coming to Leeds first game was really quite positive I'm obviously throwing this at you Greg but you're coming up against a 15 year old and you just wonder like please don't do this to me and then he does within minutes just sort of skips by him.

5:39How do you process that? It's going to be tough. There was the bit at the moment, wasn't there, after about 15 minutes of it, and Goodmanson was on the floor, and I think he got booked, but he was almost on his knees going, why? Why is this happening to me? Like Saturday afternoon, why is this happening to me live on telly? Why did this have to happen to me? This is an absolute nightmare. Is that a point, though? Is it extra humiliating if the person making you look a bit of a fool is 15 years old. It's a bit humbling, yeah. Is it like being beaten at Scrabble by your four-year-old niece? Is it like that?

6:13Probably, yeah. That's probably a good parallel. Well, there's a bit of therapy there for Alex. Yeah, I mean, the 15-year-old kid's coming on and, you know, there's a lot of hype about him. I think probably... Your first instinct, I know this is the modern Premier League now, would be, even though he's 15, probably lay one on him. And, like, Leeds will... I think if you can catch him, then good luck, you can try that. But he's not in awe of it at all. When he was running past Goodmanson, he was wrestling with him and trying to hold him off and then he tangled legs and he bought the foul. And his little turn as well in the half way, they gave him the ball and he looked to go inside and he just sort of checked back on himself to go outside.

6:51It's like as soon as he gets the ball, he wants to do something that is going to hurt the opposition and he's going to be a joy to watch. And what I liked about the whole package of that match was there is this theme developing of managers saying, need you to buy, need you to buy. Why aren't you buying me more? But at Arsenal, they're doing both. They're buying big and also they're nurturing, which is exactly as it should be. It shouldn't be one or the other. It shouldn't be only one. You know, it's nice to see a club that feels that in some respects, it's easier to bring through someone who's 15.

7:26Of course, Arsenal have a good track record in bringing through very young teenagers. But it's easier to do that when you also know you've got the comfort blanket of being able to go into the market and more or less buy who you want, more or less. But then going back... I suppose the only thing for them is that, you know, Juan Jeri, part of this whole, the whole kind of machinations in the summer of, you know, even the Eze deal and how they were delayed was they wanted to make sure that Juan Jeri was signed up to a new deal. There was like clubs, I think Dortmund were floating around. We got him done.

7:57Maduecki has come in and Eze. so they had these two talents coming through but you do wonder what someone like Wanieri's thinking when you see another wonder kid coming through on his shoulder and the same two wide players But that's not what the best and the very top teams do Of course it is That's what City have done for years I mean this is the point going back to it obviously you're understandably excited about Daumann and quite rightly giving him praise but even if you take him away you know watching it and the idea that Saka and Odegaard were injured but then you'd go right well Rice and Zubamendi in midfield Zubamendi by the way I think looks absolutely class then you'd have you know Let's say Madueke, Wanieri and Eze behind Jokeres, that would give any team in the Premier League a good game, especially if you've got that back four, which looks incredibly solid.

8:40And then even behind them, you have the likes of Luis Skelly, Mosquera coming off the bench. I mean, are we not slightly missed in our pre-season previews that actually Arsenal have got the best squad in the league? It's right up there. It's right up there. I mean, the players you're talking about there, if Saken and Odegaard are lost again, you're still talking about players who aren't of their stature and their sort of proven sort of calibre I'm not denying it wouldn't be a blow we're talking about huge enormous potential and like future superstars but if you know they go to Anfield and it's a title deciding game or whatever then it's not the same two games no goals conceded best back five in the league yeah but we knew that already yeah but then you've already added to it that's what I'm saying so it's best squad in the league it's the best keeper as well now David Raya I mean the number of errors we're seeing Alison and he did a piece recently on that.

9:29I mean, Raya seems almost consistent now. I know he's always talked about his stature, but not the tall, but still six foot. Giocares is still the only question. Yeah, it's great for him to get off the mark. As I say, great goal. Well, there is another question. There is another question, isn't there? Is whether Arteta has it. This is the Arteta question. You mentioned going to Anfield, which is imminent, and the whole putting up the speakers to recreate the atmosphere and playing You'll Never Walk Alone, you can argue whether that is a good or bad idea. And I'm open to it being a good one, although I personally think it was stupid.

10:05But it's possible it was a good idea. But the mere fact that you overthink it and there is an innate sense of being the underdog when you do that, given what we've just listed as the assets that Arsenal have, surely you have to behave like a team that believes it's going to win the title. and that's the step change I don't think I think is the most important one Absolutely and we will see that as you say with that huge game coming up and obviously we'll see more about Liverpool when they take on Newcastle tonight but I mean I still this is am I the only one getting carried away am I getting carried away Gregor you're looking at me with that sounds that way chill out son it's only two games they're only big leads yeah you're getting there I mean yeah look it was a dominant you're right after the first week we were like crikey Arsenal's relationship with risk is still a bit uncertain this is what I mean we can't score goals they look like they could have scored about 8 yeah but they played Leeds yeah but Leeds Leeds were good in the first game but there's still a promoted team who like were miles off the standard and that's a shame in itself we've had this conversation many times there's Leeds United coming up from the Championship and they get smashed 5-0 by Arsenal I don't think the imbalance should be that stark but that's another conversation yeah I wouldn't get too excited by a 5-0 home win against Leeds I think you know it's a long season they do look like they have the depth to cope with the season there are question marks that we've raised about Gheokres about Arteta's sort of disposition only time will tell on those two things well Arsenal fans if you're getting carried away get in touch with me tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk and we can just have a little chat because I'm getting carried away I'm convinced I'm going to change my entire fantasy football team based on that one performance Tottenham fans a lot of them all saying in the office I'm not getting carried away.

11:55I'm not getting carried away. But it was great. Oh my God, it was so great. And it was great. Alison Thomas Frank doing what Thomas Frank does. I know. Well, I mean, I'm not. This is the least surprising thing to me. When you consider that it's a club with odd history and a manager who has no experience of managing a club with huge aspirations and are in the Champions League, I didn't really think that he would have a hiccup and he hasn't. and I just what I love most about it is the contrast between what came before and what you have now so you've gone completely from Tottenham being managed by somebody who didn't think set piece practice was worthwhile who kept his hands in his pockets throughout a match didn't seem didn't seem didn't seem interested in tactical tweaking maybe he's got cold hands no I mean it was all about kept his hands in his pockets I didn't see that freedom It was all about freedom and, you know, just go and play, mate.

12:55That's not how you organise top-level football. And Thomas Frank is the polar opposite. He thinks about not just who the next opponent is, but the individuals in that opposition team. He thinks about what he has, how he can get the best out. And look at the way Richarlison looks like a complete world beater and he looked like a southern nobody for half the time, didn't he, beforehand. It's about relationships with your players, knowing what they're capable of. he's incredibly humble Frank he keeps relating it back to I inherited a team with great camaraderie and so on but he's instilling it it is awesome to see someone who works hard getting the points he deserves I think we've moved on I think we've moved on from the idea that you can just truck up and say I just go out and play I don't think you can do that anymore he didn't truck up he also won a trophy Tottenham's first in 17 years the problem was that everyone knew how Spurs were going to play.

13:50They knew with absolute certainty that they were going to play suicidal passes out from the back from the goalkeeper and you could press them Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. I have a point. The point is that you don't know with any certainty how Spurs are going to play under Frank. So they can play direct. Although, you know, you have to say that the first goal there were echoes of Spurs under Ange there. They always played that ball down. They always played out from the back. played that ball down the side, it was flicked on. They also nearly conceded a ball, faffing around with it at the back, passing it out, and nearly did a terrible pass.

14:26Yeah, but they mix it up. I'm just saying. Or they play like they did against Burnley, and then they play in a different way in this game. Or as Alison said, they look at the opposition, and they know that they can press from the front, mark man to man, and Hound City. It's just like more adaptable, more serious, more like grown-up football. That's what it looks like already. It's realistic. It's realistic. You go to the Etihad and you're unafraid to say, OK, for 20 minutes we might look out class. That's OK, I can accept that. We stay in the game for those 20. We do what it takes. Be as defensive as you like, as diligent as you like.

15:02Don't have to show off at all. If we can frustrate them for 20 minutes, then we can start to cause them problems. A lot of managers of top teams don't feel that they can be that humble and accept that they have to take what's on offer against them into their thinking. They think they have to dominate from the start. You earn the right to dominate a game, and I think that was a classic example of a team that was almost deferential, but cleverly so, and then by the end were dominating because they earned the right to. I think there's still, as you mentioned, there's still like a defensive injury away from not near crisis, the same sort of vulnerabilities that we saw.

15:44But what I agree with is the degree of pragmatism you get with Frank. Even just the change in the midfield from first game of the season against Burnley to the one we saw at City, Saar, Palinha, Bentancur, a very viciously strong midfield three that were really, really effective. And obviously Palinha's come in and we know how good Palinha is and he's made an immediate impact. That kind of interchanging between games that you wouldn't necessarily I think have got you would have had a bit more dogmatic approach last season that that might be the difference that gets certainly far more points than last year and again the difference is a defensive injury would influence the way Frank approached a game yeah it didn't influence Ange it's like okay I'll put Archie Gray at the back and ask him to do the same things that Miki van der Ven can do you know play the high line and be you know the quickest player in the league and be able to cover Spurs defensively so that's what I'm talking about, there's just, there's more pragmatism and even, you know, they don't have Kulusevsky or Madison to play as a number 10, like big absence, like dearth of creativity there so in this game he played Sar and like, that was almost an attacking weapon in itself because not just for the goal, his sort of front foot press and the way that he won possession back in the final third created chances, created opportunities and ultimately created...

17:04So can we agree that pragmatism is not a dirty word then. I think it's often, when we discuss elite football, it's often seen as a negative in some way. We talked about this a lot last season. As though you haven't got quite enough, you're making up for deficiencies. I think a top manager, no matter who is in or out of his team, no matter how much it costs, can benefit enormously from pragmatism. But for some reason the word I think has negative connotations. Actually what it does mean is that you're quite clever. I think it's losing those connotations I think we spoke of this quite a lot last season don't we?

17:40About managers who are completely wedded to one way of playing are increasingly finding great difficulty because teams are so intelligently set up, they prepare brilliantly now they've got loads of analysts and what not who prepare right down to every finest detail about how the opposition play and they can counter that so if you know exactly what you're facing then it makes it easier to face. Yeah. Top four for Tottenham? Why not? Yeah, I don't see why not. I think if they'd signed Eze then that would have been the real game. It's like, oh, I actually think they could do that. I think one of the key things with any coach is in player improvements and we're seeing that immediately with Richarlison.

18:21Yes, it's the new fresh start and that can be a big change but immediately you're seeing a coach have an impact on a player and that's always a good barometer of who's actually a good coach and who's actually going to make a difference. Yeah, I think when you actually look around the squad, when it's fit, yeah, They could easily compete. And I think it will be tighter. So maybe they can get closer to the football. For Tottenham. Manchester City then. We bigged them up last week. Poor in this game? Or did Tottenham do a job on them? I didn't think they were terrible. What's going on with the keepers?

18:46This is really interesting, isn't it? Like they signed James Trafford. He's a great goalkeeper. Put him straight in. You still have this whole dilemma about what they're doing with Edison. Is Edison staying? Is he going? There's talk of Donnarumma, which doesn't make any sense. Doesn't make sense at all. Luis Enrique wants to move him on because he's not good with his feet. So why does that work for Pep Guardiola? It did underline how much of what we regard as a fluid City performance starts with Edison because he wasn't there and it did feel like when you're trying to light the fireworks and you have to keep going back because it just won't take.

19:21It felt like that with them. It wasn't quite working and they weren't getting that instant ignition. But as much as he made a mistake, Trafford is good with his feet. I don't think in the games I've seen, I don't think he's bad with the ball at his feet. No, it's about personality as well and confidence. Yeah, there were quite a few of those sort of shaky moments in the season in the Premier League with Burnley. There were fewer of them last season, but then who pressed Burnley in the same way as Spurs pressed City? That's another thing. Ederson's almost like Spurs in microcosm. When he's got the ball at his feet, you can press City, but you always know he can just zing it over your head.

19:55And you've got to be really aware of the other side of the game, the other alternative. so he's a weapon in himself like good luck replacing that Very interesting, we'll see what Manchester City do about their goalkeeper situation and whether Tottenham can bring any players in before the end of the window, Pete and Gary Jacob and the rest of the Times team will be keeping you up to date so make sure you keep your eyes peeled on the Times website. Two other games on Saturday, Gregor, a word for Burnley all three promoted sides off and running with three points each Sunderland fans, huge apologies last weekend we said you were basically safe you were going to finish in the mid-table you'd have nine points before September turns out it's not actually that easy in the Premier League but Gregor, a great win for Burnley yeah, great win Burnley I still think that they're going to struggle for goals like Josh Cullen was do that bit after do the nice thing first and then do the okay, Josh Cullen was inspiration great goal great pass for the second goal lovely goals two lovely goals brilliant as well as all the other side of the game he does, you know, the defensive stuff and leadership, all of that.

21:02He was brilliant. But yeah, I stand by it. I think goals are going to be an issue for them. When they give themselves something to hold on to, we saw in this game that they're going to be adept at trying to hold on to it. But getting the goals to take the lead will be an issue. And Sunderland went bad. Sunderland had chances as well. He did. Had chances as well. And I think Rufus as well, again, another classic flip-flop. Last week he was great and making brilliant saves. I'm not sure what he's doing for the second goal where he's kind of half come and then just thought, oh, I'm all the way out here now.

21:31I might as well keep coming. If he just run back a little bit, he makes, you know, I always remember watching like Peter Schmeichel interview where he talked about the thing you do as a goalkeeper is don't make the striker's decision for them. And then Roos comes and Anthony is just like, well, I'm just going to walk it around you, mate. Obviously what I'm going to do from here. But yeah, very interesting time. I have to hope Dan Ballard's injury isn't too serious. That was massive for Sunderland. But it's good that all three teams have got three points by August. yeah very early August when it teases up fantastically for Sunderland against Brentford next week because Brentford also last week down and out complete crap Keith Andrews doesn't know what he's doing 1-0 win at home Brentford are back it's going to be fine Pete Rutzer you were there yeah firstly I'm interested what were the what were the vibes like after last week very difficult summer losing star players and you know the massive massive figure of Thomas Frank what was the crowd like the first home game of the season were they all looking at Claudia Schiffer Wow, there was a lot that kept panning to her on the screen.

22:28But no, there was a general, I think, it's not an uncertainty, but it's like, well, where's this going here? That first game was quite difficult. We had so much change. It wasn't the same sort of new season excitement you normally get. But I think that's why the result was just huge. Absolutely massive for Keith Andrews. Huge for the team. Dango Watara scores. I think if your eyebrows raised, how much they're spending on him. Yeah, it was a lot of money. Did he look good? He did, he did. And what's interesting is Brentford, I mean, this is what set them apart for so long, but they always like to think that they see things that others don't.

23:01And in Watara, they think that if he can play consistently every week, you're going to get a level that's not been seen yet. Time will tell on that, but he fitted in perfectly into the way Brentford wanted to play. Igor Thiago, the centre-forward, offers them something a little bit different. I mean, the team that Andrews fielded was different to last week. You know, you had Shada coming back, Mikel Damsgaard obviously missed the first game of the season. He's a wonderful player. Completely changed the way that they play in the final third. Jordan Henderson. Henderson's come in. He had an hour.

23:32Still getting up to speed, I think, a little bit. But what was encouraging is that it felt like, it felt really familiar. This felt like a Brentford performance that we'd seen under Frank. It felt like it was the same ilk. And Keith Andrews spoke about that, like trying to make sure we keep our identity. And that's what pleased him the most about the performance. I think obviously the flip side with Villa was that they looked incredibly stale really stagnant it's an interesting start to the season yeah it is not great at all in the final third not very creative even some things the set up was strange we had John McGinn playing out on the wing which I'm sure would have distressed Gregor if he was watching it John McGinn can do anything he hasn't seen once the only winger except run quickly can't do that Come on, it's only two games in.

24:21Let's all just get along, shall we? Don't wind him up about John McGinn just yet. But, you know, Emery wants signings. Obviously, he complained about PSR. But you also looked at the setup and, you know, they had Donnie El Marlon on the bench. They spent 20 million on it in January. He was a winger. And you just think, well, even, you know, Bubakar Kamara went off injured. Massive blow for them. He's a really important midfielder. Brings on Buendia, a player that everyone sort of expects to go and leaves John McGinn on the wing again. And, you know, they're playing against a Brentford team that was sitting very deep in a very Brentford way, dogged, committed.

24:53Didn't stretch them at all, not until about a 15-minute spell in the start of the second half. But you've still got Olly Watkins in that team starting a top-level Premier League striker. Morgan Rodgers is just one young player of the year. Tielemans had a great season last season. You say stagnant. These players just look like they're tired already, like not refreshed or what we're talking about. It's exactly that. There's nothing that feels refreshed about it. It's been the same sort of... I mean you could say it from a narrative perspective, it's been very similar. It's that frustration about, you know, we can't, we're not investing, we're not doing all these different things.

25:24And then on the field, it just felt the same way. I think it was more structural. It just felt very, the lack of width was so obvious within the game and particularly in a game like this. And all of their chances seem to be stemmed around set pieces, which is never really a good thing. And yeah, they're in an interesting position because they seemingly can't invest because of their PSR limits. They'll probably look at loans and things like that. but you also think I mean we looked at the numbers I think seven seven of the players who started that game were there under Gerrard and they've made 25 signings in that time so you also yes there is a PSR limit but you've got to make sure that they're spending wisely Gesson was a new signing obviously you can understand him being on the bench but there was Mattson was on the bench as well a fullback he likes to provide a lot of width and this is it just felt a bit off this is a challenge for Unai Emery isn't it if Pete's right that you know they can't bring in the players that they talked about, that injection of Asensio and Rashford in January had such a big, this is going to be a challenge for Unai Emery this season Gregor if they don't bring any other players in Absolutely yeah I mean it's just keeping the mood positive too because I think everything Pete's spoken about there does just it will seep into the squad and the players they want to see the squad refreshed Even the reactions of Jacob Ramsey obviously losing an academy player going to Newcastle and the other players coming out and be like John McGinn saying it's the way football's going and it's not wrong but it sets the mood doesn't it?

26:48You do wonder about the sort of the logic of coming out and you know addressing the PSR issue quite so you know strongly In what respect? I just don't know what that does to the vibes It becomes an excuse that covers everything right? It's like excuses everything Yeah Everyone's aware of the situation I don't know whether you have to what did they hope to gain from it? What was to be gained? I don't know So So I've still no doubt that Villa, whatever their squad looks like when the Transawando shuts, Unai Emery will have them competing for Europe. Yeah, I've got faith in him. Faith in Unai? Yeah, I think so.

27:26Because you were at the first home game, obviously, 0-0 draw with Newcastle. It's weird, isn't it? They did so well and came so close to doing brilliantly last season. And we were left thinking, well, they're in the Europa League. That's Unai Emery's thing, isn't it? So it's going to be a marvellous season. And just the mere fact of not having any excitement in the transfer window seems to have meant that the whole team feels a little bit low. And that's illogical, actually. It shouldn't. They should be thinking, we've got consistency, we know each other, we know how to rely on each other, we've got a great manager.

28:05But it has cast some sort of initial... I think once we got over this sort of annoyance of the transfer window for them, I think they'll go back to being very well organised and lethal when they can be. It's not just no excitement, it's also a bit of uncertainty. I mean, Oli Watkins has been spoken about all summer. Martinez looked like, you know, he was crying his eyes out at the end of last season. He looked like he wanted to go. There have been a few, Ramses another. And Rodgers has been linked with other teams as well, even though he's told Charlotte Dunkey he's very happy at Aston Villa in an exclusive interview last week.

28:37Very interesting times for Aston Villa. Can they bring in a few players before the end of the window? Though Wolves too, their fans will be hoping to make some signings after another worrying defeat against Bournemouth. So as I say, make sure you keep up to date with all the latest transfer news on the Times website. We're going to take a quick break. No kazoos on this episode. But as Pete Rutz is here, it's a little quiz question courtesy of Bill Edgar. How many players have Chelsea used in all competitions since the start of last season? Find out after the break.

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30:40Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Alison Rudd, Gregor Robertson and Pete Rutzler with me. Pete, you requested a quiz question. Your answer to the quiz question, how many players have Chelsea used in all competitions since the start of last season in Bill Edgar's column? Your answer? It's 42. 42, agonisingly close. Gregor, the answer was? 46. 46. 46 players used in all competitions since the start of last season, all of them under the age 28. Remarkable statistic. Name them, Pete. List every single one of them. I probably could do that. Don't, don't.

31:17But let's talk about Chelsea. A huge win for them at West Ham on Friday night. A much needed win after that draw with Crystal Palace, Pete. Just what Enzo Marescu would have wanted. Yeah, really exciting as well. They played really, I think we saw some of the football that got everyone quite excited towards the end of their club. World Cup performances, very fluid, high intensity, higher tempo. Obviously coming into the game and losing Cole Palmer in the warm-up, it's a straightaway like, oh, Cole Palmer. But then you bring in someone like Esteval Willian, who was fantastic. He's such a fantastic player.

31:53Just the way he sort of demands the ball would drop into such deep positions, which, you know, as a young player coming into a new league, you think, well, is he going to take time to sort of build up the confidence to be demanding the ball off his teammates in this way but wave after wave of Chelsea attack just started with him taking possession of the ball distributing it left right brilliant assist as well they have so many attacking options I don't think that's necessarily a surprise considering the way they've done their recruitment but yeah a real yeah I mean West Ham will get on too about how poor they were but they certainly exposed their weaknesses João Pedro's had a brilliant start I mean he was quiet against Palace that felt like Chelsea of last season but the fact that he played in the 10 just playing off the lap and the two of them could work together that's why I thought he'd be such a good signing because you can basically he's that classic modern forward isn't he that basically play anywhere which for this Chelsea team that rotates and twists and turns and changes all the time have João Pedro in there he's going to be a fantastic asset isn't he yeah he's done far better than I thought he would initially like coming in and making such a swift impact but mention the big problem with Chelsea very annoying because they didn't try and break the record why didn't they go for 10 they gave up it was there it was there they did but I think there's also an element of you know actually they should have done it trying to keep balanced and measured here Pete Rotson he's like nah sorry what am I on about they definitely should have scored 10 but just very quickly on Chelsea's squad strength we keep referencing obviously the window coming to a close we've already mentioned there that amazing stat from Bill Edgar 46 players used do you sense more changes a foot before the end of the window they obviously need to get rid of uh christopher and kunku and nicholas jackson is that what we understand yeah so sales they've actually sold pretty well and i think they've kind of got a bit of respect for how they're able to sell some of their players um but they do because of the uefa settlement agreement they do need to have a positive transfer balance to register players for the champions league so which is why we've seen sort of jackson and kunku be available but they want a permanent sale you know there are people willing to come in like we mentioned villa but they're never going to pay money for Jackson up front in that way.

34:06But even just mentioning Pedro and the way he played, Chelsea still want to make additions. Xavi Simons of RB Leipzig, Alejandro Garnaccio, Man United. They could do with another left-winger option. They prefer to have two in each position, so that would make sense. But Simons, he's a kind of player who likes to play in those central positions. and you just wonder is it worth spending another 50 million on a player when you've got Jao Pedro who's quite versatile can play in the 10 and just keep Jackson yeah it's a very weird thing that's happened to Nicholas Jackson he's suddenly become a completely crap player when actually last season no it's not that sums up Chelsea's no but that's what I'm saying I'm not saying I think he's crap I'm saying that this is a perception now that no one wants him and Chelsea don't want him and last season you had everyone talking about how important people want him it's just they can't pay the money that Chelsea what would that be?

35:0060 at least 60 that might change but Jackson's Moresca spoke so highly of him last season he made a massive difference to the team when he played you know he was signed having had a season at Villarreal he's thrown in to be the leading man at Chelsea with no competition even last season we spoke to Moresca I remember asking him saying you know do you think Jackson would be a better player if he had competition in the squad so you could just take him out and rotate him not relying on it didn't say yes but he basically did in his response and then we've gone from a position where he's gone and said, oh, I want two Jacksons in my squad to none.

35:31Now I'm picturing Marevski singing, we all dream of a team of Jacksons. Well, there was an element of that. But yeah, it's a big change. And that's the kind of aspect that you think, well, why are they doing, why do they need a Simon's Burks? Come on, Gregor, come on. You've been sat here like, quietly shaking, rocking in your chair. No, no, I'll just repeat it. Like, I hope I don't sound like a broken record, but I can't honestly envisage myself have ever given Chelsea credit for any success because of things like this Jackson was signed and performed pretty well last season, like better than expectations probably and like for almost no reason he's disposable, he's gone like even looking at Chalaba as well Chalaba last season was loaned out to Palace they would have sold him if he hadn't had an injury crisis and now he's playing, he's one of their best probably their best defender like there's no logic or like any I said it before any consideration of like the human side of of this like factory farming for want of a better word at all it's absolutely insane oh my god I can now see I can picture Gregor wearing a balaclava going in behind a fence at Cobham and freeing all the players who are being mistreated well everyone there everyone takes a piss like that and go I know they're being paid really well and like they sign players from South America and they change their lives to give them money that will change them and their family's lives that's a big thing but these kids are like 18 or whatever some of them and they also want to like make a career for themselves and have a successful football career I agree with you the nature of the way that PSI is working it's turning the commodity nature of the players of where you're just going well yeah no actually move him on a bit and no one ever seems to like try and work out whether players are any good anymore I don't know it's just all a bit like oh you'll shuffle him over there and we'll get an extra 40 million over here and stuff and as you say Pete you make a very good point like why not just work with what you've got and play Jackson as a striker and play Jao Pedro behind him Maduiki was another one you know he was like so many times last season you think he's developing brilliantly and Maresca was yeah he had some some little criticisms for him saying he has to do more and what not but he played him and he was Jao Felix was another one wasn't he he's gone how many clubs has he played for and two since now he's now already left yeah there's never any certainty that the players they're bringing in are upgrades either it's just like a churn absolutely mad anyway let's move on because we could talk about Chelsea and their players till the end of time because as I say there's so bloody many of them but let's quickly mention West Ham bottom of the table rooted to the bottom of the table and our Sunday Times sports columnist Alison Rudd was writing in that paper this weekend saying that the longer Graham Potter spends at West Ham the more confused they look and I have to say I completely agree with you.

38:23It's not looking good for Graham Potter. It's looking awful. Really awful. And I think... It also looks worse as each game progresses as well. You're watching this game and they get worse each time and the subs make it worse. This is worse than it was last season. And it gets... And you're like, what's the plan here, Graham? I don't know what the plan is. And I think before anyone says, oh, come on, this is two games into the season, West Ham traditionally lift themselves for a game against Chelsea at their home stadium. even the new one. They really are up for it. And Sky Sports were desperately out and about trying to find fans saying, oh, Potter out.

38:59But they wouldn't. They wouldn't do it ahead of a game against Chelsea because they felt this was going to be a great night. You know, we've done it before. We've lifted our game against Chelsea. It doesn't matter how many stars they have. They always wobble when we're up for it. So the fans were ready for it. But Graeme Potter was not. He was not. because he's got it in his head, the sort of team he wants to play. It's called Possession Builder. So that's a shorthand for what Arsenal are in a way. But why on earth would you have that as your mantra when you've got the resources you have at West Ham?

39:34And it's not like it's a shock to the system. West Ham are what West Ham are. They don't spend a lot of money on elite level players. So he's trying to instill some sort of technically gifted vibe where Juan cannot exist because he doesn't have the players for it. He neither has the personality for it. Sometimes a manager can have a vision and they push it. They actually push it forward a bit because they've got that force of personality that make players think, yeah, I can do this, I can do this. But he's very downbeat. Again, before kickoff, he was asked what sort of game he expected and he said, I'll tell you afterwards.

40:12I mean, that's not inspiring because what you need playing Chelsea is a bit of inspiration. He wasn't giving it to them. It was, it's drab. It honestly felt at the end that Jared Bowen is like somebody standing up at a Losers Anonymous meeting because he brought into the fact that they'd shipped eight goals. The interviewer didn't ask him about shipping eight goals in two games. He brought it up. Like, I need to let the world know I understand how rubbish this all is. And he's your talisman player. And he's bereft. I mean, it seems ridiculous to say his job is on the line. But given he's had the summer to work out, he doesn't have his dream line-up.

41:00He has a line-up. And we're going back to that pragmatism word. Get pragmatic. Tap into the good things at West Ham and try and navigate away towards mid-table for now. but no they look on the slide and the players do not look like they know where they're supposed to be or what they're supposed to be doing yeah well you're a bit cautioning and saying oh you know there's only two games gone and things Martin Samuel our colleague writing on the Times website now that West Ham have eight days to save their season fail and they are down so there you go if you think we're getting carried away our colleague Martin thinks the relegation could be a candidacy for West Ham their midfield is just not well equipped for the league it's just not it's also not equipped for what Potter wants to do Well, even more so.

41:43I mean, his record, I think, is similar to Lopetegui after a similar amount of games. So it suggests, you know, the squad is clearly not designed for, as Alisson's saying, the way he wants to play. Lopetegui's style in a similar way. Lopetegui's was particularly enamoring. But, I mean, it was what, Ward-Prowse and Suchek was the two pivots in midfield. That just doesn't make sense. There's no speed in there. The balance isn't right. They're not bad players, but you put them with someone who can do that running. And particularly the Premier League now, you need those players in the middle of midfield.

42:12and the fact that they don't have that. I mean, Chelsea just ruined them in those areas. And it will happen again unless they do make those changes. Do need to make some signings. Let's talk about some of the games on Sunday then. Gregor, we're going to start with you. You were at Crystal Palace against Nottingham Forest. Second time in a number of days at a Palace game for you. Also, you've seen Forest twice now. So you're the ultimate person to get carried away about both teams and tell us exactly what's going to happen for both of these teams this season. nothing happened the pitch mattered much compared to what was going on in the stands it was all about let's be honest it was all about what's going on in the stands certain very colourful banners which I'm sure you will have seen we can really talk about that much is that because you're scared?

43:01maybe well I'm actually glad that Evangelos Maranakis didn't go to the game because I don't think he would have enjoyed it let's just say that that was made very clear from the Palace fans and that's clearly to do with the summer of angst that's going on about there. And the excellent either tweet or someone on the radio yesterday which called this game El Casico, which just in case anyone didn't see that joke, absolutely wonderful, maybe my joke of the weekend, definitely top work whoever came up with that one. Seriously, that overshadowed the start of the game. But in case you're going to move on from that, do you think that Nottingham Forest were immoral in what they did?

43:37No, I wouldn't go as far as saying they were immoral, but let's point out let's lay out what they did as soon as it became clear that Palace had earned the Europa League spot, nothing for a sent a letter to UEFA seeking clarity over their multi club ownership structure because Evangelos Maranakis also has a multi club ownership structure he diluted his shares before the March first deadline it's a token gesture but this is what you have to do to comply with the rules. Palace would have had to have done that. I think it was the FA Cup 5th round. It was earlier than that, wasn't it? It was the Millwall game anyway.

44:16I think that was, whatever, it was early. You know, you're being pretty bold if you say we're going to go all the way and win our first trophy in our history and that's going to get us a place in Europe so we better dilute our shares. Anyway, so clearly I said in my piece that if the idea among Palace fans is that Maranakis kind of edged open the door to them being able to replace Pallas then Maranakis kind of booted the door down off its hinges because as soon as it was like an option a possibility they were very keen to walk through that door and Pallas then went to the Court of Arbitration for Sport which is Cass and their appeal Forest had to go as a sort of and represent themselves and they sent a five-man legal team and they were apparently pretty they defended their interests very forcibly, shall we say.

45:11So, but Palace fans are not fans of Maranakis. I don't actually, it felt like quite confected this whole idea of it being like a new sort of grudge match slash rivalry. They don't like the guy who owns Forrest. They've no problem with Forrest. They don't like the guy who owns him because as Martin described in the last week, he's elbows out. And, you know, as I joked to you after the news broke after Thursday's episode, I think I went a bit too quickly. The news, of course, that Nuno Espirito Santo went into his press conference on Friday. But that was the other thing around this. The relationship's not great, and you will suddenly start going, poor Charlotte Dunker had written a piece about Forrest's great start to the season and brilliant summer.

45:50That got canned, that's never going to see the light of day. Yeah, and I said I was starting to believe that Forrest could be a success because he's making all these moves in the transfer market, he's backing up his bold words and all this. But he's so combustible, and the environment that he creates at that club, is so elbows out again, as Martin's phrase was, that this is always possible. It can always blow up in their face as well. How was Nuno yesterday? He seemed to have calmed down a bit. There were so many reports emerging from various sources saying things like, Nuno's trying to engineer his own exit now.

46:28He said that was absurd. He said that narrative is absurd. I will never quit. we all need to get around the table him, Edu who's the man who he's clearly had a bit of a falling out with, he's the global director of football I think for Maranakis' football empire and Maranakis, they all need to sit down and sort out their differences after actually he's basically saying after the transfer market closes because we still need to sign a goalkeeper and two fullbacks, he said first of all we need to complete the squad, his biggest bone of contention has been he always wants a squad in place for pre-season that's what he puts the success last season down to the whole squad went to Spain were drilled in his very sort of you know clear tactics and philosophy and we saw the proof of that he wanted that to happen again it's not happened they signed four players at a cost of nearly 120 million in the last week good players strengthened the squad but he's like it's going to take them time to integrate them so I mean even Glasner threw a bit of a bomb into proceedings after Thursday night as well so saying that we've failed to prepare for the obvious possibility that Ibreche Eze was going to leave that Mark Gahey was also going to be coveted we've failed to prepare like it's no one's fault but ours that's what he said anything happened in the football by the way this is what I'm saying this is what I'm saying it was felt like that before the game so in the football no no it's a one all draw nothing really the most interesting thing for me was watching Adam Wharton against Ellie Anderson yes because England's two future midfield pivots alongside Declan Rice yes it's coming home Gregor Robertson week two on the podcast Alison talking up England's midfield chances seriously Thomas Tuchel can shoehorn a bigger name alongside Declan Rice he can invert Miles Lewis Skelly or Rhys James or maybe play Rhys James he can do all these things or he can just play a really, really good young English midfielder who has developed enormously in the last 12 to 24 months or whatever.

48:39Either one of them. That is the thing that England have to do. There you go. It's coming home. Gregor Robertson, week two on the Game Football Podcast. We move on now. Great atmosphere though. I was going to say, yeah, I was going to say. It was. I mean, even for all this, you know, the vitriol and the spite and stuff. What were the Forest fans giving back then? Aren't they not slightly embarrassed? I don't think so. We don't like you either but we don't care. One of those friendly chants. This is modern football and the tribalism. They were saying in Maranakis he does what he wants. Ah, okay.

49:12They were also saying about Nuno. There are some fans who are uneasy about Maranakis but look at what they've done. Look at where they are now. A lot of politics, a lot of transfers. Let's talk about some actual bloody football because this was my favourite moment of the weekend. Jack Grealish back on a football pitch again which allowed me to do this on the cover of the game just put a big picture of Jack Grealish's legs there we go holding that up for the camera in case that makes the video clips the most famous shins in football the most famous shins and calves in football what a wonderful sight though absolutely brilliant to see Grealish back out on the pitch just getting the ball in any sort of space you think something's going to happen Gregor as a defender you must sympathise with this that touch he does when he takes the ball down that just slightly touches it out of his feet that says to a defender, go on, I dare you.

49:59Go on, I dare you to think I've overrun that. He has one of the best cushion touches. Yeah, it's just like, he doesn't trap it right in front of him. He puts it like two yards in front of him that say, go on, go on, go on, try. And then he keeps nudging it as well. He keeps nudging it. See, it was just wonderful to watch. I absolutely loved seeing Jack Grealish out on a football pitch. And again, the series so far, you know, we're flip-flopping episode to episode. On Thursday, Greg, Everton struggling, in, lose to Leeds. Now it's all wonderful. They're going to sign Tyler Dibbling, Grealish, Dibbling and die behind a striker.

50:32That's not a David Moyes forward line. New Moyes-y. New Moyes-y. I'm not sure about all of them in the same team. Stick them all on the pitch, see what happens. But it was like everyone knew it was going to be Grealish time. It's really because the cameras were on him as he came out carrying his little girl. And she was waving and he was grinning like, Like, oh, I'm enjoying it. This is nice. I'm glad I did this. I like this atmosphere. I like this new stadium. I think I'm going to be all right here. And the camera was on him. It was really strange. It was as if they knew this was his moment. And he played like he was playing for Villa, basically.

51:11And I know he's had everything with City, but there was something boyish about him. Yeah, it was. And it was also that sense that Everton will give him that happiness. And it was interesting him talking about it quite movingly afterwards about at City kind of saying I'd stopped enjoying football because he is one of these mercurial talents isn't he who just wants to just play football very very simply just do what he does best he just wants to be in a team where he's loved and with a manager who says go on Jack go on do what you do and which just seems what it was going to be he's going to play off that left wing his teammates are going to give him the ball and he's going to make things happen it seems very very simple he's very you have to have like Jai I mentioned Dibbling coming in Grealish that kind of width with Everton I smell it's exciting but even like the stadium it just feels big obviously it is big and Wilson Park was always quite intense everything feels like condensed and emotional and whatever this is expansive so some of the things expansive Everton football but in Jai and Grealish two of the best wingers in the league very very exciting times Jordan Pickford with another penalty save now made the most penalty saves for Everton in the league Gregor Jordan Pickford the most underrated goalkeeper in the Premier League why is he underrated?

52:15because no one thinks he's good everyone takes the mick out of him all the time everyone's making jokes about him oh Jordan Pickford oh he plays for Everton oh he's a bit crappy oh if someone will come along and take him out the England team no one takes him out the England team even we were talking about in the start of the season oh James Trafford he's pretty tasty isn't he he'll get a move to Man City or Newcastle and then he'll kick Pickford out of the team Hamza's on banging on about how great he is no one can touch super Jordan Pickford and it's about time he got some respect okay well you've given it and done well done let's move on good good fine glad we're all in agreement with that one Jack Grealish is wonderful Everton are going to finish in the top half and Jordan Pickford's the best goalkeeper in the Premier League.

52:52Good. Just very quickly on another growing theme, Alison, we talked about this last weekend. We've mentioned Forrest there playing in a lovely cream away kit. Brighton in a little lilac number. I'm really pleased about the renaissance of the slightly bonkers away kit in the Premier League. We said about Fulham's slightly JJB-inspired luminous green number a few weeks ago and now we've got some more. I'm really excited to see what more comes for the rest of the season. Yeah, they're beautiful. Absolutely lovely stuff. let's finish with Manchester United against Fulham. I don't really know where to start with this game because I watched the first 10 minutes and I, because I was quite excited to watch Manchester United properly.

53:29I'd only seen the extended highlights of Arsenal, but lots of people, Hamza on this show had said, no, it was good, shows positive signs. For the first 10 minutes, Alison, you were there. I thought, hmm, okay, fast paced, Nick in the ball back, Bumo, Cunha, looking good. And by the end of it, I thought, Amorim doesn't get till Christmas. I don't know whether that's too strong. But like, seriously, I thought it's just, I don't see what's changed since last season. But you were there, would you agree? As this is the end of the show, we have beautifully come full circle because it's about lack of pragmatism.

54:06Because Marco Silva said afterwards, he knew exactly how United were going to play and they weathered, And it was a sparkling opening 20 minutes. It really was. And I thought, wow, this is Man United being thrilling. And Kunja, I defy anyone not to enjoy watching him. He is a joy to behold. But Fulham knew what to expect and they dominated midfield. United did not surprise them at any point. So, yes, United have some star players who can run at you and cause you problems through their individual skill. But as an entity, you're able to get to grips with them and then impose your own personality and style on them because they're not going to give you anything to have to calculate madly at halftime or whatever.

54:53So they're just going to keep going down the same path, the same path. Amrim said they forgot to play football after they took the lead. We wanted it so much that we forgot how to play football. Isn't that rather pathetic? How many games of football has he been in charge of? to know that you tell your team what to do when they take the lead. They do know not to stop playing football. You mentioned that Marco Silva said, oh, we know what to expect. I thought it was also quite damning Alex Iwobi in the interview with the sky cameras as well, just kind of very simply picking apart the Man United game plan and said, yeah, they started quite well, but we knew we'd get space in behind their midfield and in front of the back three because we know the back three won't step out.

55:35So we kind of thought it would be fine. You know, there's just no, as much as they started well, and I thought, oh, here, front foot Man United, just Fulham were like... Who's he talking about? He's not talking about some team in the EFL Cup from League Two, is he? He's talking about Manchester United. We've had ding, we've had our first, this is Manchester United. So damning, really, when you think about it. And the contrast made it more damning to me because they did start so well and you thought, wow, they've fought well. I mean, no one doubted that Brian and Bumo and Tis Kuna were going to be amazing players.

56:07They are amazing players. but they slowly sort of lost their way. I think Kunia has some odd walking stats. Doesn't he walk more than any other player in the Premier League? But anyway, he started walking and Mbumo, I mean, me and Gregor disagree on this but I don't think he's playing in the right position and he looked a bit lost as well. You can't have two of the most exciting players in the Premier League looking a little like, run out of ideas, don't know what to do after 20 minutes of the game have gone. but you've got to give credit to Fulham who could have become like Aston Villa they've not been refreshed at all they're playing against a team that spent over 200 million in the summer they've spent nothing except on a backup goalkeeper and they've also had a manager who said I would quite like to refresh the team actually but instead he made a virtue of that so that they kept their patterns and their relationships he's the master I think he's the best manager in the Premier League making substitutions Marco Silva so 17 subs scored goals last season two already this season he just knows when to bring them on and how to balance the team up and what he can and he keeps everybody happy so you sort of I don't think he does that because you know if you're not starting you're going to come on and he's going to set up the team so that you can shine as a a team who spent nothing against a team who spent a lot again and have the history and the size and it's little old Fulham who ended the game really.

57:39If any team was going to nick it, it should have been the home team really, which does not bode well. And also Fulham, talking of Kitts, look like Real Madrid and they're all white. Fulham look like Real Madrid, there you go. There's a big hot take for Fulham early on in the season. But just coming back to Manchester United and Ruben Amarim, I cut just a couple of stats. There was one that's been doing the rounds on social media. So I've just, you know, for its absolute certainty, maybe go and check it, but it is absolutely remarkable. Gary Neville at Valencia, 28 games, 11 defeats, 39 goals scored, 38 goals conceded.

58:09Ruben Amarim, last 28 games, 14 defeats, 30 goals scored, 45 conceded. I mean, because the other thing for me watching this game, I was thinking, right, this is, you know, we talked about Arsenal and Tottenham, the two types of wins, you know, beat the team that you're supposed to be stronger than, then play quite well against the team who are better than you. United play quite well in defeat against Arsenal, then play a team that, as you say, Alison, One of them spent£200 million, the other one hasn't. And just looking at it going, yes, you've got Cunha and he's incredibly exciting. Yes, you've got Bumo and he's a brilliant player.

58:41But the most, I was following Hamza's analysis on Twitter as he was there with you, Alison. He was saying like, Dugu and Diallo were the highest players up the pitch, the two wingbacks, like miles, miles high up the pitch. And then you're going, how are you getting the best players on the ball in the most dangerous areas? I just Pete I actually come back to something you said on this podcast about like Amarim seems like a good bloke great in a press conference you know obviously a talented manager potentially the biggest example of a square peg in a round hole by putting him at Manchester United even the recruitment I was just thinking like 200 million pounds right the game was not rocket science yesterday Fulham had three in the middle they had two and one of the two in United was Fernandes and the other one was Casemiro Fernandes is playing in the wrong position because they've signed two forwards and Kunia and Buema and they've got Sesko coming in.

59:31They've got Mount. Mount's looked quite good actually. Mount played well. He's looked quite good. But he took him off. Casemiro, fine. We've talked about him endlessly. Yeah, Kobi Maynou can't get in the team. What's going on with Kobi Maynou? Then Amarim said afterwards, I was reading that, he said, oh, he's competing with Fernandes for the same position. I said, okay, so he can't play with him. The heart of that team is that you have a two in there and if you're going to always play a two because he's playing this system, it's not going to change, it's going to be a two, they've got to be good they've not signed anyone yeah another stat for you the goalkeeper Alta Bayern Deer was the only Man United player to create a big chance against Fulham it was a good chance it was a good chance but I mean good punt as well I mean but also that's another situation as well where you've got Onana not playing Bayern Deer who's got to be one of the weakest backup goalkeepers in the league starting I mean the only certainty at Manchester United is that they will play 3-4-2-1 yeah which makes it really easy for the opposition again yeah again that comes back to what they said at the start that's the only certainty everything else Fernandes is also a problem right this is a problem he's your best player playing it's like he thought how can I make this even harder for myself ah I'm going to take my one the best player who by the way who got in a lot of people's teams of the season last season Bruno Fernandes even though Manchester United was so poor was their best player their talisman I know I'll put him in his worst in not his best position You go back to the fact that he could have left in the summer and you do think maybe that would have been a good time.

1:00:59Because he's been so important. He's been so important to them. You can't really criticise his impact last year. I mean, without him, that would have been a real bummer. But now you're in a situation where you're playing him in the wrong position. They need to reinvest in their midfield. And they talk about, you know, not having the money to do it. They've spent in other areas, haven't they? Careful what we say, though, because he's very sensitive. and if you bump into him and you don't say sorry he will miss a penalty. That was nonsense wasn't it? But it was less I mean because he didn't come out and say all that but it was just the fact that you watched him after it happened he just couldn't regain that composure and just redo your routine again.

1:01:38It's just sullen and moody. Yeah it's too. We've got Burnley at home Manchester United next weekend. Burnley at home newly promoted side. They've got to get like a couple of goals from Cunha or something. I reckon Scott Parker knows what system he's facing. But genuinely, we're in, you know, we don't want to go too, but if they don't win that game, he's in bother, isn't he? Going into the international break? They've got far more attacking quality than they did last season. I think they'll pick up more points, they'll score more goals, but they're not going to make the steps they need to make this season.

1:02:10But everything else is uncertain or amiss. Interesting times for Manchester United. As always, I'm sure Manchester United fans have got views if you do get in touch with me. tom.clarkatthetimes.co.uk. We'll leave it there. Alison Rudd, Pete Rutzler, and Gregor Robertson. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you too for listening. We'll see you later in the week.

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