Premier League is Back with a Bang!

0:00You're probably multitasking right now, right? Commuting, working out, crossing things off your list. Worth asking when check-in on yourself landed on it. Grow makes the booking part fast. The rest is between you and a therapist who actually gets it. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans.

0:38Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Quick question. When was the last time a display ad changed your mind? Now think about the last time a friend told you about something they loved. Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice.

1:17It doesn't interrupt the experience. It's part of it. With Acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format. Then watch the data tell you it worked. You're not buying impressions, you're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

1:45Hello and welcome to the game podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. The Premier League is back and if the opening weekend is anything to go by, this season will be more unpredictable than ever. Thrilling wins for Hull City, Brentford and Brighton. Humbling defeats for Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur and Aston Villa. Late drama in wins for Manchester City, Leeds United and Ipswich Town. And even later drama as Liverpool nicked a point against an impressive Newcastle United. I'm Gregor Robertson and joining me on today's show to discuss what it all means, we have the Times senior sports writer Alison Rudd.

2:19The Times London football reporter Gary Jacob and The Times columnist and feature writer James Geerbrandt. Guys, great to have you all. So much to pack into today's show. We need to get straight to it. And I thought we'd approach it in order of shock value. First of all, though, I'll ask you all, would you agree that Hull's 2-0 defeat of Manchester United this weekend was the shock of the weekend? It was because absolutely everybody, every single canvassing of opinion I read, everyone had Hull to go down. It was getting a bit kind of disrespectful, actually, wasn't it? And for Man United to continue the great end of the season they had when Michael Carrick was appointed.

2:55So there was zero expectation that the match would unfold the way it did. You guys agree? Well, I think on results, it's definitely hard. I think if you bring scorelines into it, I think, or just the circumstances of the match more generally, I think with Villa losing 4-0 against Brighton, 95 days after they won the Europa League final, 11 days after they pushed Paris Saint-Germain all the way in the Super Cup was pretty remarkable. James was at that game so we'll come to you to discuss that very shortly. Gary, do you agree? I'm going for Brentford. You're going for Brentford? Not because I didn't expect that from Tottenham.

3:34The fact that they just didn't compete at all. He's had them in for pre-season, they hadn't in the last season and that was a real shock to me. It could have been a lot more, couldn't it? The deciding vote's with me so we'll start with throwback to days of Ruben Amaram raises questions for Michael Carrick that's the headline in Ian Whittle's piece in the game today it's one game, it's the opening day but Alison, Michael Carrick did not need this kind of result and performance did he? No, it was very one-geared it would be quite easy to lump Spurs and Man United into the same category there, I thought United showed a lot of glimpses of class and quality actually I think you could tell they were a good team.

4:15They occasionally purred, but they were always in second or third gear. And they did not respond to what was in front of them. It was as though they refused to accept what was happening to them. So they were being bullied in midfield. They were physically in our hole. They were hugely confident. Their set-piece delivery, I think they'd said that they'd spotted that as a potential weakness in the way Man United set up. Balls whizzed into the box. United just played as if they wanted to snub Hull and pretend they didn't exist. It was really strange. They didn't make any changes that made any difference.

4:54It was so one dimensional. There was stuff there that was nice, but what was overwhelmingly arresting just from watching it was that they did not shift out of... Third gear was the best they got into. You mentioned the word disrespect. It was as if they disbelieved that Hull could have been quite that good. I was overwhelmingly impressed by the atmosphere at the stadium. I think in a lot of those pre-season predictions about who will go down, I don't think people factored in that if your home form is going to be influenced by riotous, loud, overwhelming fandom like that, that's just relentless, you will get results that people don't expect you to get and it will be enough to save you from relegation.

5:43It was an eye-opener, but this idea that teams that play five across the back act as a thorn in the side of Man United. All you can do is say, well, well done Hull for identifying that and going for that system. Because another reason why a team might escape relegation is because they take each team as it comes and adapt accordingly. That's what you do when you're the smaller club. You try and find little nicks and ways to get through them. and that's exactly what Hull did. James, I think Ian Whittle's reference to Ruben Amram was largely about the lack of intensity and drive looks like their will to win in an open day of a Premier League campaign.

6:25As I said at the start, that's exactly what Michael Carrick does not want when you're someone who has been given the job on a permanent basis after a positive end to last season but there are still the echoes of the Oligon of Solskjaer era and how that eventually unraveled as well. Well, and also because looking at the fixture list, I mean, we were asked in our pre-season predictions which manager might find themselves under pressure. And I went for Carrick on the basis of United have a very tough looking sort of October, November stretch, sort of run of eight games. Obviously, we're getting quite far ahead of ourselves.

7:01But the point being that they, you know, they begin with games against two promoted teams. And I think everyone was expecting them to have six points on the board. And of course, now suddenly they find themselves on the back foot. It's about basics, isn't it? I think Alice and I were sort of Arsenal-Coventry. That newly promoted team comes up and I thought Arsenal were really, they were strong at the start when they put their foot down and they weren't going to allow, I know they're at home, so it's different, but they weren't going to allow the newly promoted team to be physical, to do with the things.

7:31And you just got the impression that United allowed Hull to do what they wanted to do. And also, I mean, Luke Shaw's mistake was a poor mistake. The goals were poor, weren't they, to kind of concede when you look at it. It's a free kick and he drops back in. And also there was lack of pace in midfield. You know, obviously they've got Balaba going to come in, so maybe that will make a difference. If you lack of pace in midfield, they're just saying two midfielders. Thielmans is a class player, but he hasn't got any legs, has he? So you think Balaba would make a difference in midfield for them? He obviously thinks, he was obviously going for Hill or Lewis Skelly, one of the two and obviously they've gone for Belaber and I think that may make it.

8:08I'm not sure about Heaven at centre back. Obviously he's a young kid who was at Arsenal. He's had, you know, a little bit. That's quite a chastising experience for him. It's quite, if you look at the sort of central defensive spine of United, it's quite a callow kind of, you know, you've got Lamans in goal who is obviously still very young for a goalkeeper for that position especially. Obviously he did have a very good season last season. Heaven starting at centre-back who as Gary says is another very young player they've now brought in Andre Santos to start in central midfield it's quite a sort of that sort of central kind of spine of five players there's a lot of youth in there obviously you've got Maguire started as well kind of you know sort of compensating a little bit for that although did we see as Louis clutched Masraoui in the penalty box in the build-up to I think it was Ajayi's goal.

9:03He's marking his own player. It's the kind of bizarre thing that turns into a bit of a meme. Have you been in that experience before, Gregor, where you've come up against a newly promoted team where they're really at you in that first game? Yeah, I've been that team as well. The thing with Hull is it did kind of tilt into a bit of disrespect, I think. And they've used that as motivation even last season in the Championship because the context is quite important with Hull. There's a good reason why they have been written off. I mean, they finished, they stayed up on goal difference at the end of the season before last.

9:39They had a transfer embargo last season. So they're a team that's been cobbled together on free transfers. The managers are complete unknown. And it was a revelation. They snuck into the playoffs, scored in the last minute. So it's not really disrespect then, is it? I mean, when you list where they've been and the problems they've had, it's not disrespectful to suggest they're going to struggle in the Premier League. because logic dictates that they would. Absolutely. You expect almost every promoter team to struggle. I think it was just the idea that they'll just finish bottom and they'll be swatted aside.

10:12Let's talk about Hull. They were fantastic. Their energy, their, as you say, their up and at them, their desire and the two goals from set pieces. I think attitude-wise was spot on because there's two ways it can go on your opening match. match they've not been there for nine years and you can approach it in a way where you can look naive oh you know we're at home and we don't care what anyone thinks about us and we don't care how much money man united squad costs we can do this and then you end up looking incredibly naive and you're you're just torn apart but they had they had so much self-confidence they were bristling with self-confidence it was it was amazing to see that they kept their shape really well they were very disciplined, but they were also aggressive and very happy to attack.

11:02There was no nervousness about them. The speed of the balls they whipped into the box, especially from set pieces, was really hard to defend. And ultimately, they were enjoyable to watch. This wasn't like a really gritty, dour, backs-to-the-wall performance. And if a team plays five at the back, you sometimes think it's going to be like that, but it wasn't. It was also front foot football, which you don't You don't often get a team playing five across the back and front foot football, but they did it. Hull's first league win against United since 1974 in the old second division. Brilliant start for Hull.

11:33Just finally, Gary, what do you think Manchester United need to do between now and the end of the close of the transfer window? Certainly. Odorgoo on the left. Rashford's got the number nine jersey now coming on at halftime. As you say, there's... They were in the market for a left winger this summer, weren't they? As well as a midfield player. So, Balebo is obviously the one they've gone for there. but you still think they still probably need another left winger probably. You know, they looked at Rodgers, obviously he'd worked there but he knew Wilcox from his City days, he knew Carrick from Boroughlet but they obviously don't want to spend the money.

12:05It was very clear United this summer have got a budget for players, you know, they didn't want to spend the money on Fernandes who went from West Ham to Topham. So it's clear they've got a framework they want to work in and yeah, I think they're a left winger. You know, Ruscha is an interesting one, is he going to be there next week. Does anyone really know for certain he's going to be there or some are going to take a punt, some are going to make a loan bid for him at the end of the window? One other thing that struck me about United was I know quite a few United fans weren't overwhelmingly in favour of Carrick getting the job because they felt he lacked something on the touchline.

12:47He's a very quiet individual, very measured, and we've seen a sort of increase over the years in managers being personalities in the dugout and he's not one of those he's very very steady and calm and doesn't really seem to react and this game did feel like United needed a manager to exude something from the touchline to get over across to the players that they needed to react to what was in front of them but he was just very quiet and measured this is the fear they have the United fans he hasn't got any oomph he was asked about that afterwards It was kind of like, you know, he said, I'm being very calm to you guys, but I'm feeling the, you know, the anger inside.

13:27So do you think that's just a kind of cool, calm exterior he's trying to show on the touchline? And I'm sure it's different behind closed doors. But if we can't tell, how can his players tell? Are the players supposed to look and guess that he's angry on the inside? He should be showing it. He was that type of player, wasn't he? He was a very calm player. He didn't get annoyed as a player, did he? No. He was pretty measured in what he did. If you saw your manager going ballistic on the sidelines would you think that's a positive or a negative? No, I'd say it's a negative It doesn't have to be ballistic it could be emotional it could be demonstrative you could be exuding some sort of energy to transmit to your players Well, it didn't do Roberto De Zerbe much good at the weekend and the first line he's always one of the more emotional managers Alison I thought he was quite quiet actually Brentford 3 Spurs 0 Alison, how worried should Spurs fans be by this awful start?

14:22It was an awful start. I'm torn between saying, well, look, their injury list was so long that this starting XI isn't going to be their starting XI again, assuming they get players back from some minor injuries. Some are just niggles. Some are more serious. Players like Maddison, for example, are fit enough to play but not play for 90 minutes. Presumably his match fitness will increase and he's a really important player to them, as one example. But then you think, well, hang on. One of the big problems last season was their injury list and lack of fitness. So why is that carrying on? Why have they not?

14:57They've meant to have made changes there. Why have they not come through? Why can't we see more players out of the physio room and out ready to play? It just seems like this is going to be a problem through the season. They can't afford for that to be. And the other thing was, I think a lot of people were expecting this to be a good season for Spurs because they finally loosened the purse strings. And they were a team that underwrote their own destiny by not keeping up with the big six in terms of splashing the cash. So they're finally spending money. But then you look at the team and you think, well, they've spent close to 100 million quid on Tonali.

15:34Sorry He's not He's not worth it And I actually think That was lauded as Ambitious But I don't know of anybody Who started At the start of Transfer window Was saying Oh I really hope my club Buy Tonali I hope my club spent 100 million quid on Tonali They weren't I think a lot of people think The value was maybe overblown Horribly overblown But he's a good player He's an upgrade He didn't touch the ball For the first 20 minutes No he had a tough Tough afternoon I just I just think there's another debutant playing, Sangare, who touched the ball all the blooming time. It was strange that De Zerbe piloted Tonali, wasn't it?

16:13And also saying about fitness. Well, I didn't quite understand the Tonali fitness thing, given that he wasn't at the World Cup. And the move was done relatively early. Tom, all that writing in the game today is suggesting that the kind of extensive travel that they embarked upon during pre-season, when Roberto De Zerbe saw the state of some of the pitches and didn't even allow the players minutes on them suggested that, again, they're prioritising the commercial rather than the footballing side of things. But all clubs have to deal with that. Fundamentally, James, they've spent, I think, about£230 million in the summer.

16:47Andy Robertson, Sinesi, Van Hecke, Tonale was£100 million. Four of their big signings all started and it was this bad. The nature of the defeat was a surprise because a lot of those players that you highlighted, but what they've really brought in in Van Hecker and Sanessi and Tonali they brought in sort of very technical sort of control particularly the two centre-backs very sort of good passers players that you sort of might have thought would add a bit of control the tempo of the game through passing and for the game to sort of get away from them as it did I think was a surprise they clearly though I think it's interesting because if you looked at the score at the end of the end of the last season, if you'd said to me, where do they most need reinforcements?

17:36For me, I think it's the attack. That to me, that's the weakest part of the squad. And obviously now they've, Savinho, Marmouche has also been linked. But the nature of the transfer market, I think is also interesting where, you know, you're paying these huge fees really for players who are not sort of first teamers. There's a lot of, we're seeing a lot of Premier League to Premier League transfer activity. And obviously, a lot of the time, you're not buying, you know, the other club's kind of core players. You're buying players who haven't quite done it. I think, you know, there's a lot of Savinho and Marmouche kind of have enough pedigree or have kind of shown enough, maybe, you know, especially in Marmouche's case, his previous club for them to sort of be exciting signings.

18:23But they're also, I think, they're certainly not slam dunks, are they? Well, that's not to say they won't be good, but they're not dead certs. But I think Tottenham are starting from a low base, aren't they? This is a team that finished 17th. I think a lot of the, for me personally, a lot of the predictions which have sort of had them, people sort of say, well, they don't have European football. De Zerbi is going to get them on the training ground each week. They could go Champions League. Well, it may happen, but for me, that just seems unlikely. it's rare to see teams go from 17 to I could be wrong but it just a few of the players to come back Pedro Porro James Madison Fernandes played the second half Kudus Kulisevsky as you say Savinho and Marmush likely to join Mickey Van de Ven who's been named captain it's all yet to start so there is it's unlikely as Tom will mention in his report it's unlikely we'll see this team this iteration of Spurs again that's possibly one positive or hope to cling to if you're a Spurs fan Yeah, no, I mean, it was, this isn't an accident.

19:28This isn't something you just happen to have to put up with. Spurs have consistently now, as part of their problems in finishing so close to the relegation zone, had the fact that they can't call upon their best players regularly. Something needs to be done there. It's ridiculous. I think it's interesting their strategy is to buy everyone from the Premier League. As James says, that's a strategy from a lot of teams. Yeah. But I think for Spurs, you know, because in the past it would be value, but you pay that premium for the Premier League and they've clearly decided that's… which is a model that Arsenal went down a few…

20:02Alteta likes and also he obviously he nicked Gabi Jesus and Sinchenko from City and it's almost like Tottenham are trying to do that similar thing, getting that little bit of the rub off you get from maybe a better club and to try to kind of catapult them the extra bit, you know, maybe it will. I think they're all big fees, aren't they, as you say James, they're all… but you pay a premium in the Premier League, don't you? Don't you think that's laziness? I know it's a model with the big clubs. They prefer their players to be tested at smaller clubs first rather than buy them directly from a non-English club.

20:34It's a really interesting phenomenon, I think, in the Premier League in general, which we're seeing. We're almost seeing now the sort of, I don't know what the right term is, but the sort of the kind of non-big six Premier League clubs, if you will. They have a bit more, they're the ones who sort of take on a bit of risk in the transfer market. And you sort of have a phenomenon where they kind of like de-risking some of these players. And, you know, let's say, let's pick, you know, Balaber as an example. That's not the sort of signing that Manchester United make anymore. But once Balaber is signed by Brighton and has a couple of good seasons there, then he sort of becomes an acceptable proposition for a team like Manchester United.

21:19And I think, I do think in general, we are seeing undoubtedly the big Premier League teams it's a much more kind of conservative approach to recruitment in the sense that leagues have styles players, styles, tempos, levels players who have played in the Premier League yes logically inherently are going to be a little bit less risky than players who have never played in the Premier League before and in that sense I feel that don't see a lot of punts from the big Premier League teams anymore and in fact it's not just a big six phenomenon anymore even some of the other top half Premier League teams now are taking from other Premier League teams That's a perfect segue to talk about Mamadou Sangari and Brentford because my god £39 million in a midfield with up against a£100 million midfielder and one in the second half £85 million midfielder in Matheus Fernandes and they're both really good players but as James says Brentford are you know famed for thinking outside the box a little bit this is a guy who's gone from I think Rapid Vienna to Lunds to Brentford in the space of 12 months my goodness you look good he looks absolutely fantastic but crucially he's arriving at a club that's in a good place you know when his post-match interview he was like he's already in love with the club he loves them and they love him and that makes you automatically a better player and you're enjoying yourself.

22:53Whereas, you know, just to be blunt about it, Tonali's joined a club that's in flux and had a terrible season last season and has still got to face playing at home and seeing if that problem has been ironed out that that stadium, that wonderful stadium can offer the support that the players need. Brilliant, brilliant start for Brentford. Not a good start for Aston Villa though, James. That's the game you were at. 4-0, win for Brighton against Aston Villa. Another team in flux. Unai Emery faces greatest test as patiently assembled Jenga Tower. Wobbles was the headline in your piece today. Lovely analogy there.

23:30A lot of change. 4-0 down in 31 minutes. Reduced to 10 men five minutes before the break. A disastrous start for Unai Emery's side. Well, I mean, this is match day one of the Premier League, as they say. but I don't think there will be many more extraordinary minutes than that sort of five-minute spell before halftime when Villa were already 4-0 down. Joao Gomez then got sent off and they were down to 10. And in that five minutes before halftime, it was like it was shooting practice for Brighton. Brighton had, I think, four shots in the space of three minutes. And if one of those had gone in and it had been 5-0, you know maybe it could have been we could really have been looking at something you know quite extraordinary because honestly at that point a 7 or an 8-0 crossed your mind it didn't so Thanton's 9-0 the record well it didn't feel outlandish because obviously they were down they were 4-0 down and then they lost a player as well to a red card ultimately of course I suppose you have to say they did well to hold it to 4-0 and indeed Emery spoke about that afterwards saying, you know, he was really pleased with the maturity that they showed.

24:46And it is important because, you know, there's a massive difference between losing 4-0, as bad as that is, and losing 7-0, which could easily have happened. 4-0 is a bad day and can be written off. Had it been as bad as it could have been, things could have taken on a whole different momentum. But I think a lot of what Villa, what the kind of Villa story is about at the moment, It's about, as it often is, it's about the kind of the feel and the mood around the football club. Teams can lose 4-0. And indeed, Villa, you know, this team, as good as it has been, has had a, you know, they have conceded four goals in matches in the past.

25:27I think it was the home game against Chelsea last season where they lost 4-1. And I think conceded four goals in roughly kind of as short order as they did here. So it does happen even to good teams. But clearly the fact that 95 days ago they won the Europa League and they've lost or haven't quite lost, but have lost four of those first team players and another two in Martinez and Oli Watkins, who maybe we'll come on to talk about. They also appear to be going. It's a huge level of change, turnover. I mean, Oli Watkins was kind of hovering over this game as well because he'd been linked with a move to Saudi Arabia's Al-Halal.

26:05and Emery was quite pointed afterwards. Two separate interviews. I think the first one, he said the word silence in response to a question about Watkins and another one, he basically said, ask him why he's not here. Well, he actually said, call his agent. Right, okay. It was quite an extraordinary press conference. As you say, he was asked what's going on with Ollie Watkins, why wasn't he in the squad? And he said both before the game and after the game words to the effect of I can't answer that question I can only answer with my silence you know he's the one who has to answer that question and then even you know went as far as to say you know look Oli has to explain the situation call his agent find out what's going on clearly reading between the lines you know it's obvious that Watkins not even reading between the lines he hasn't been training with the team it's fairly clear that he wants to go we should point out Villa didn't score a goal until their sixth game last season and they didn't win a game until their seventh game.

27:05So Emery's been through worse than an opening day for a final defeat. But as you say, the change is different. And, you know, if you step back a bit and look at some of their income in Manzavi still to come back in, do you think the rebuild can work? 100%. I do. And I think two points that I've made. One, I think what's interesting to see from Villa, related to what we just talked about, at a time when there's a lot of Premier League to Premier League transfer activity, Villa who have had a lot of success with that type of recruitment they seem to be moving away from that and and you've got these slightly younger signings from some of the other European leagues like Suzuki, Manzambi two players who are both very impressive in the World Cup Manzambi has been really really good for Freiburg in the Bundesliga, Ruggeri from Atletico who made his debut yesterday.

27:59The counterpoint to Villa, I was, you know, you look at a team like Leicester a few seasons ago, the season that Leicester won the FA Cup and finished, I think, fifth. So kind of a comparable season to what Villa had last season. And they didn't, I think I'm right in saying they didn't lose any of their team that started the FA Cup final that summer. And then I think they only lost two players from that team the following summer. But the team just kind of got a bit stale together. They all sort of got a bit stale together and obviously ended up getting relegated. So I don't think what Villa are doing in terms of refreshing the team is the wrong thing at all.

28:37I think there's quite a lot of sense to it. But I think it's the extent of the transformation I think is really, is decidedly unusual to have, to get rid of six first teamers at once. It's a lot of change And I think it feels like this season might be a hard season as they kind of enter what is kind of a rebuild, really. Just finally and quickly, Villa shot themselves in the foot with a lot of these goals, clearly, and went down to 10 men. How good were Brighton? Yeah, Brighton, I think, were really good. It was one of those first halves where easy to kind of fixate on some of the errors that Villa made, which were obvious.

29:23but also I think you have to give credit to the Brighton press, which was really, really good. You know, they played with that kind of relentlessness. It was notable, I think, that one member of Fabian Herzler's backroom staff, I think it's one of his main assistants, one of the first team coaches, was up out of his seat at every single transition, was kind of up out of his seat and sort of really kind of, you know, urging them on and shouting, giving his instructions and whatever. It's a new trend, like the set-piece coaches stepping up. Transition coaches up. Well, you know, I mean, no, I think they played really well.

30:04The intensity went out of the game. I mean, they did continue to create chances, but just obviously not playing with that same kind of relentlessness that they had in the first half, which is understandable. Obviously, Hutzler kind of handed out a few debuts as well. It became sort of that kind of a second half, really. OK. Still loads more to get into in the second half, including some almost shocks for Liverpool and Manchester City. But it's break time now, which means quiz time. Quiz question is, since Preston won the inaugural Football League season, at least one league manager has, until now, been in charge for how many years?

30:42I'll give you three options. Is it five years, seven years or ten years? Find out after the break.

31:19Thank you. and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow helps you find therapy on your time. The therapist you want takes your insurance on Grow. Grow accepts over 125 insurance plans. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. Visit growtherapy.com slash start now today to get started. That's growtherapy.com slash start now growtherapy.com slash start now availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Here's a tip for you. There's a podcast out there with fans waiting to be your next customer.

32:06They tune in every week. They trust the host and that host wants to talk about brands like yours in their own words to their audience. The problem is you just haven't been introduced yet. We're ACAST, where that introduction happens. As the world's largest podcast marketplace, we let you browse shows, see who's listening, and book host-read sponsorships or run your own ads all from one platform. Transparent pricing, real-time data, complete control. Start advertising on podcasts by visiting acast.com slash advertise.

32:48Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from the Times and Sunday Times. I'm Greg Robertson alongside Alison Rudd, James Gerbrandt and Gary Jacob. An apology, no one understood the quiz question before the break. Let me be really simple about it, OK? In the history of the Football League, at least one manager has always been in charge of their club for a certain number of years. Until now. And I gave you three options. Five, seven or ten years. Any guesses? I think seven. Gary? I'm still struggling on the question. All right, I'll throw it in a bit. You're right, James, it's seven years because Pep Guardiola left Manchester City this season.

33:27This is a really interesting point in Bill Edgar's column this morning in the game. There's a kind of chain of managers, a lot of them, great names as well. Sir Bobby Robson, Brian Clough, Joe Royal, Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger. Then you go to Morecambe's Jim Bentley, Wickham Wanderers Gareth Ainsworth Jurgen Klopp and finally Pep Guardiola the ending of the latter's 10 year spill at Manchester City means that the longest serving manager is Mikel Arteta he's the longest serving manager in the 92 not just in the Premier League he is yeah and we're seeing a whittling away at the kind of length of time there's nine changes that's also a record I think in the Premier League was that a good question or was it a bit too much a very interesting question but phrasing needed a bit of work okay thanks I'll learn from that do better we go again okay let's go to the almost shocks now and it was almost would it have been a shock?

34:16Liverpool have had a bit of an interesting summer as well Alison Dominic Subozla's 99th minute penalty rescued a point for Andoni and Raiola's side was it deserved? Yes no genuinely Did I ask the wrong person there guys? No no no no genuinely I I have consistently said Liverpool would get off to a slow start Andoni and Raiola is very meticulous and very specific about what he wants and it takes time for players to get to grips with it. I wasn't expecting it to be a wonderful start to their campaign at all, but I did think that they would be vulnerable to the counter-attack, which is a hangover from last season, I feel.

34:55Newcastle at home when the crowd are behind them and it was a very emotional day at Newcastle. I think that meant the atmosphere of sort of the tributes to Kevin Keegan, the atmosphere carried on being very heightened. that helps a team counter-attack at speed and with purpose. Liverpool look a little bit wobbly when they're faced with a counter. But I felt overall, if you were to take away the emotion of the fans, Liverpool had a lot of control in that game and looked the more grown-up team and didn't fashion as many chances as you'd hope. And there was various disappointing performances. But a draw felt really fair, I think.

35:35I would say Liverpool winning that wouldn't have been right. The only thing to say to that is that Newcastle, clearly have had a tumultuous summer as well. They've lost a manager, lost a raft of big names, and no one really knew what to expect from them. So this was a very, very positive start for Matthijs Yesle. There's quite an interesting contrast, I think, to be drawn between Newcastle and Villa. Two, I think, quite comparable clubs in that they've both been sort of, that over the sort of last, let's say, three, four seasons have been the sort of best challenges to the sort of big six, if you like.

36:10And they've both probably out of any club had the most upheaval this summer, but maybe not entirely through sort of their own conscious choice because obviously Howe left and maybe that was his decision. But the point is, it feels like Newcastle kind of really embraced the fact that they're in a rebuild, or they have now anyway. Got a new manager in, new captain in Tior, started three of their new signings, Stoja, the young Dutch midfielder, and they've kind of really embraced youth in what they've done in the transfer market. And it sort of feels like they've, though there's obviously a lot of uncertainty around Newcastle, it feels like they're kind of moving into this new rebuild era with a sense of conviction, at least.

36:58And, you know, a kind of identity that they're going to go youth energy. They've got the new manager in, in Gaisler, who I think will be good, which is a bit of a contrast with Villa, who obviously are kind of having a rebuild sort of forced on them. but it sort of feels like a bit more reluctantly they sort of feel a bit caught between two stools at the moment. Dedic, the fullback, was one of the other new signs and the goalkeeper, Hornik, as well. There you go. But there's actually probably one player who wasn't a new sign who caught the eye the most and that's Johan Wissa who was part of this whole Alexander-Isak departure, that whole saga, brought in as one of the replacements for him and it didn't go well for him last season but he was involved in all the positive play for Newcastle in this game, Gary.

37:42No, he was very, very sharp. And he actually showed the form that Alisson probably saw quite much more often than most of us at Brentford. He was quite aggressive, sharp in front of goal, quick. And I thought Langer as well did well as well. And I hadn't realised that was his first league goal for them, which is quite something. He's another player who underwhelmed after the last season's chance. Who underwhelmed because he'd had a really good year before that. So he was underwhelmed. But I think, going back to Jane's point about Newcastle and Villa, I think that's a really good point he makes about the fact that they've actually kind of so much more turmoil this summer than Villa with the manager going as well.

38:20And actually they've come through it and losing their midfield is kind of, and they actually sort of come through it. But it's still early, isn't it? I don't think, you know, with the Villa thing, I think once Villa get a few signings in, they will be a completely sort of different team. And I wouldn't want to judge Newcastle on one performance where they've got emotion helping them on the thing, give it three or four and see whether they're kind of still the same team. But credit to Dejicel, because he didn't seem to get credit for the first goal where he hooked it, sliding and hooked it, and that pass created the first goal.

38:54Searing counter-attack. Two passes down the other end. Speed of a line, that's incredible. It wasn't only the counter-attacks, which you mentioned, just the simple slide passes through, Liverpool seemed to be struggling with those. That was a really, and they weren't necessarily counter-sacks they were just sort of balls in and around curves around the centre-back and that seemed to be quite a fundamental thing That is a hangover from last season Liverpool have conceded more goals via fast breaks in all competitions than any other Premier League team since the start of last season A lot of after seeing games in pre-season a lot of onlookers felt this was an issue that hadn't been resolved by Antonio Raiola so there's a lot of work to do, Alisson and also you maybe We bring in the fact, like, how long are we going to give Alexander?

39:38It's one game, again, starting the season. How long are we going to give Verts and Isak to actually step up and do something? That's another weight for Liverpool. Even if you forget the fact that they cost so much blooming money, that is relevant because it means that the manager feels obliged to field them. You can't just keep that amount of money on the bench week in, week out, because they're not quite working. Iriola said he felt in pre-season that they were forging a relationship and it was quite a productive one. But it didn't look like that at all against Newcastle. And again, I mean, as Gary says, it's one match with a lot of emotion.

40:17That was a factor for maybe you could say Isaac being booed consistently might have impacted on his very underwhelming performance. To answer your question, there's a part of me that just thinks, just bench him. Just bench him because he doesn't look like he's enjoying it. Sometimes a player, his backstory is a really difficult one to, he needs to start playing brilliantly for that backstory to stop being mentioned. Going on strike, costing so much money, not hitting a stride when you first join, then getting an injury. It's just, he just doesn't look comfortable. What other facets does he bring to a team that under Indira Ola requires hard work from everybody and input from everybody?

41:06James? Wirtz is a really interesting one for me because, you know, clearly no player when they transfer to the Premier League is ever an absolute sure thing. but Florian Wirtz is a player of the caliber that I just thought he would be brilliant. I thought he was an absolute slam dunk. You know, this is a player who was the crown jewel in a Bayer Leverkusen team that, you know, went within one game of pulling off an unbeaten treble of a season. You know, they were an absolutely brilliant team and he was the best player in that team. And I think also if you look at the data, the Bundesliga is thought to be the league that is most similar to the Premier League in terms of style and tempo and the pace of the game.

41:56Because as you say, that's one thing that a lot of people think he's struggling with, the physicality of the league. And that's been turned up a bit in the last couple of years. I don't think he's been terrible, but nonetheless, I'm surprised that he's struggled to the extent that he has. I also wouldn't rule out him having a great season. And we have seen players come into the league, struggle in their first season and kind of find their feet in the second season once they've kind of made that adaptation. But I do think he is a big kind of unresolved question mark because he hasn't looked like the player that I think we all thought he was capable of being for Liverpool yet.

42:39Alison, do you think there are problems at centre-back or in midfield for Liverpool? Full-back. Full-back. Right wing. There's problems everywhere when you look at it like that. We're talking about very expensive attackers who aren't pulling their weight. We're talking about a defence that Areola would like them to press but they don't. So what are they? There's a lack of identity to the defence I would say. Full-backs can't defend 1v1 either. They didn't have a great game Against Newcastle I think they're just not quite there yet Liverpool in terms of executing What the manager wants They didn't look anything like Bournemouth Did they?

43:18No And he had a slow style Which people always forget The players actually said at Bournemouth We didn't understand it to begin with It takes time to get used to it It takes time That's the precious commodity all my new managers want. Enzo Mareska would be one who agrees with that sentiment. Another almost shock against Bournemouth. Marcus Tavernier gave Bournemouth a 26-minute lead and it took goals from Gehi and Guardiol in the 84th and 91st minutes to give Manchester City the win. A strange team selection in this one, James. Six players who've played almost all of their minutes for City as defenders, named in the starting XI.

44:03Mark Gay as a holding midfielder. What did you make of that? As you say, I thought it was an odd team sheet to look at. I mean, it was one of those team sheets that when it sort of dropped, the BBC Sportographic wasn't quite sure what to make of it. It wasn't quite sure who was actually going to be playing in midfield. As you say, it turned out it was Gay who was playing alongside Anderson in the midfield pivot. And Nico O 'Reilly, who obviously we know who was primarily a number 10 for City's youth teams, but has been really almost exclusively a left back for Man City and England at senior level.

44:41He was playing in that more advanced kind of number 10 role. And also you look at the back four and it's a back four of kind of back four of four centre backs. Although we have seen a lot of Kusnov at right back and Gvardiol at left back. They're both kind of what you call centre-backs by trade. I mean, not that that's necessarily a problem. And I think Vardial is actually a brilliant player and he's great at left back. But yeah, it just, it feels like a sort of, yeah, it just, it felt like a bit of an odd team. And, you know, they've, they're clearly at the kind of beginning of that process of Mareska working out what his best 11 is going to be.

45:31Pragmatic though, wasn't it? And he got the win. So in his defence, he got the win. But I thought there were some problems last week at fullback against Arsenal. Kuzinov played right back against Arsenal under Community Shield, and they got in a few times. And the goal yesterday came on the right-hand side where Rico Lewis is playing right back. So they've obviously got a few little problems they need to iron out at the fullback level. I do think when I think about City and how they'll do this season and what are my kind of reasons to be optimistic about City, see, number one is Erling Haaland, although he didn't play brilliantly yesterday.

46:06I still think he's, you know, the kind of their best player. And I'm increasingly thinking that actually the second biggest plus for City is Ryan Cherky. I think he's a great player. And I think he's someone who I think will establish himself as an undisputed starter in that team. The way he unlocked the door for the second goal was just a thing of beauty. I think he's a brilliant player. He's come, haven't he? I was just going to say that, Gary, yes. The two midfield players are going to bring in, but Daddy, we assume he's staying and not going to go back on loan, which has been some sort of conjecture.

46:40Well, you'd hope not for 86 million. Well, there's a suggestion in the prices accordingly because he might go on back on loan. Okay, okay. Do you think he'll make a difference? Obviously, we saw a lot. He looked very good in a World Cup, didn't he? And obviously Arsenal Everyone's been talking to him He looked so impressive At the World Cup Didn't he? He did But I think It's also asking a lot Of a young player Clearly It is And you know The World Cup And Ligue 1 Are very different Kind of tempo-wise From the Premier League But I think Everyone was looking at him Even before Like you know Over the winter And obviously Fernandes will be A very good I think a very good signing If they sign him Only 18 years old So it's a big A big move for him But Fascinating It was a political line-up as well, wasn't it?

47:24As well as Pragmatic by Mareske. He's sort of, oh, I've got to put Mark Gay in the field. I've got nobody. Kovachiv was probably their best player at the community, she would last week. And so Bill on the bench was a little bit of a surprise that he played very well last week against Stiles Tom. Just quickly on Bournemouth, I mean, of all the teams that made changes, this felt like the most continuity sort of choice in terms of Marco Rose replacing and on Iriola in the summer. What were your thoughts on Bournemouth's first performance under him? Well, yeah, there was continuity for a start. They didn't look different.

48:02And they identified Mark Oroz as someone who would play in the mould of Iriola so that there wouldn't be any change. So they looked like a very seasoned team. They were confident. They have trouble going to the Etihad traditionally. So they did really well to keep it. It looked like they were going to get the win till the end. And I think they will have left Manchester feeling really halved on to, actually, because they played with a maturity and continuity. They were nice to watch, but maybe if they take one thing away, it's that even when you're playing a club of the size of Manchester City, when you're on top, you can just be a little bit more aggressive, perhaps.

48:46it felt the longer it went on they were happy with the 1-0 you can't be happy with 1-0 at the Etihad so I think they'll regret that attitude Just before we round up the rest of the action as I said at the outset it feels already like this could be a really unpredictable season in the Premier League Liverpool, tricky start Manchester City still yet to convince Manchester United who a lot of people tipped idiots like me for a good season that was a very difficult start still to see Chelsea tonight but does it feel more up in the air, Arsenal are out on their own, that's the caveat, among the elite for you this season as well, James?

49:23Well, we assume Arsenal are out on their own. I think they do look the strongest team. I think it would be a surprise if they stumbled. I think it does, clearly, for all the obvious reasons. But having said that, City ultimately did win You know, for all that's been said about Maresca, I think Maresca's career to this point, his CV is pretty impressive, really. Clearly, Guardiola is going to be a very tough act to follow. But he's, you know, from what I've seen, his teams have, you know, generally got pretty good results. And we haven't seen Chelsea. And I think I'm fascinated to see Chelsea under Alonso.

50:14I think Alonso for me really did show glimpses of kind of a generational coaching talent by Leverkusen. The things he did there were extraordinary. And I don't think his reputation has been dented too much by what happened at Real Madrid. because I think everyone just kind of thinks, well, Real Madrid just kind of chews up and spits out managers. That's kind of just how it is. And clearly there was a lot going on in the dressing room there. I'm really fascinated to see what he does with Chelsea. I think they could be really good under him this season. But yeah, clearly I think it does seem that Arsenal are a step ahead.

50:55Chelsea play Fulham tonight, of course. We'll be back on Thursday to discuss all of that. Quick roundup for the rest of the action. Ipswich great start 2-1 win against Sunderland Jack Clark's late winner at Portman Road to get Ipswich's return to the Premier League after a winning start but Julio Nciso was the star James ex-Brighton forward we've seen scores on absolute world days for Brighton in the past had half a season at Portman Road then spent last year with Strasburg and Gary O 'Neill do you think he could be the difference maker for them this season? I think he could be yeah I think just looking at their lineup, it just feels like they're taking a slightly different approach to the Premier League this season.

51:39The starting XI looks stronger. It just looks like there's a bit more quality in the team. And CISO is obviously an obvious example. They also had Dazen Maeda playing at number 10, who has done some really impressive things at Celtic. Maybe I would say a slight question mark for them at centre forward. Obviously, they had Emerson starting. He could be really good. But yeah, I think Nciso is a player who's kind of shown his quality in the Premier League. As you say, he had moments at Brighton where he looked really, really impressive. And they've also signed two sort of very solid, experienced Premier League campaigners from Fulham in Issa Diop and Sasa Lukic so it just looks like a team that you know could be you know could stay up basically I think they've got a chance Everton 2 Crystal Palace 0 Gary John there's kind of a lot going on in the background for Crystal Palace difficult start for Pierre Sarge the new manager result for Debbie Moyes excellent result needed a kind of little bit of a good start a few little murmurs about him towards the end of the season both various players over the summer and it was a very good start for him.

52:59I think Sage is going to have a tricky little opening period. When James sort of mentioned about which manager could have, he could have a tricky opening because of the flux that's going on. Lots of Lacroix on the back of losing various players last year under Glasner. Although he plays a similar to Glasner, he likes a bit more possession. So I think it's not going to be quite Glasner, which can be bang, bang and you're, you know, three passes at the other end. It's going to be a lot more with the ball. A little bit of noise about Wharton. Obviously, Mateta is going to go in would have gone in January but for the knee injury at Milan probably was you know still maybe go this week because being offered around and you know maybe or someone by and Palace probably being their model will probably take it with a year to go um so it feels like and obviously Saar who's had an office just feels a little bit you know they feel like they've been unsettled and that's you know as Glasner sort of managed to kind of get through all the unsettlement that he had with Eze and other people, it's going to be relatively, it's going to be new to Sage to have all that kind of thing.

54:00So he may have a little of a tricky start. Plus they've got European football. Sar feels key to me. I sort of feel like, you know, you could maybe lose Mateta, but Sar, I think, is their best attacker. 21 goals last season. Hanging on to him feels crucial to me. Yeah. I mean, I think Mateta, when he was out, they didn't really, you know, like you said, they kind of got around it. I think they obviously don't want to lose Wharton. I can't see Wharton going this summer. I think it's probably now they'll put the hatches down. But I also think they're going for the centre-back. They've gone for De Sassi.

54:37I think LaCroix had a bit more pace than maybe De Sassi. And I don't know if he's going to play a high line, whether he needed someone a bit quicker. It does feel like the quality they have at centre-back has just kind of gradually sort of been eroded a little bit. I mean, I think Tanvo and Riyad are good players, but it's not quite, you know, where they were with Lachlan. Riyad got on the injury as well in this game. Plus, obviously, they're trying to maybe phase out Munoz. Maybe they'll sell him, you know. I think he's been excellent for the amount of money they paid for him. But he's getting to the age now where it's like maybe we'll take an offer on him.

55:14Kamardas, they obviously resigned. Lerner is there, but I kind of think they probably still need. But Palace historically like to deal late. Parrish likes to deal late. it annoyed various managers and you'd imagine they'll kind of do something late some sort of loans obviously they bought McNeil and Huntley which they changed with Johnson just quickly any other deals you think could happen this week Gary? Jackson we probably expect to go somewhere then with Fernandes we expect to go Martinelli from Arsenal probably go obviously we're thinking that like you've mentioned already that Savino and Mammish will end up at Spurs Gakpo is still up in the air Jack The people cannot afford to lose Gap though he was their best player yeah fantastic goal against Newcastle fantastic goal yesterday Jackson to Aston Villa is that a possibility that's a possibility yeah obviously Minte is still up in the air isn't he whether he goes to Liverpool there's going to be obviously Forrest will probably do some stuff won't they Forrest need to Forrest amazing this is the game I was at didn't have a single new signing in the starting 11 this is Nottingham Forest we're talking about.

56:22Underland has taken what, two defenders this summer? Probably, you know, maybe with them got European demands as well. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be a busy week. Yeah, okay. So were you impressed with Glasner in his first time? It wasn't a great start for Oliver Glasner, no, I mean, it was a 0-0 game, very physical and all, you know, set plays were always going to win it. It's one of those games that the Premier League has become known for recently. Anton Stag struck an okay free kick in the 88th minute that the goalkeeper should really have saved you. So it wasn't a great start from Glasner. And he had a good line at the end where he basically said, I can't put my hand on the player's shoulders and make them play like Real Madrid.

57:01So, you know. Makes him sound like Jesus. Yeah, I don't know what I expected with Jesus, but I think Maranakis will expect a bit more than this quite quickly. So not a great start for Glasner. Only one game. Yeah, we've left the champions to last because it seems, you know, a walk in the park, Alison. Well it was all about them being champions Gary was there with me as well it was just fireworks and they kept saying coming onto the pitch now they're champions and it was that sort of occasion Are Arsenal going to walk it? No, I honestly don't think they will walk it I just don't think Anyone will be very close

57:45We're recording this on Monday So I might look stupid and Fulham might beat Chelsea, but I think Chelsea are most likely to challenge them because for all reasons, we've been through another podcast, but I think they are. A big fan of Alonso as is James by the sound of it. But no, they were very compelling. There's always a potential banana skin, isn't there, if you've just won the title and there's a newly promoted team coming. You've got nothing to lose. Sometimes something could go wrong, but they were in control throughout, looked really comfortable, smiling still. So we saw them smiling in the community shield and we saw their players smiling at the World Cup.

58:32They are still smiling. There is a really... Arteta denied it afterwards that his players are behaving differently. He says, oh, they look exactly the same to me. They do not look exactly the same. There was a tension there last season as they had this bridesmaid tag that was really weighing heavily on their shoulders. That's gone now. It's not like the Champions League was a disaster. They lost on penalties. It was a great campaign in Europe as well. They are playing with literally, I mean, not just as if they're smiling. They are playing with smiles on their faces. and I think that will be their greatest asset through the season is that lack of weight of will we come second again?

59:17They know they can do it so for that reason if only that reason alone they will be up there they will be good. Okay, the tough start for Coventry City they have a chance to get off the mark though when they host Hull City next weekend as we say we've got Chelsea against Fulham on Monday night we'll be back on Thursday to talk about all that and we've got an EFL show Tom and I this week as well. Hope to see you then.

59:49While every other channel is fighting for your customers' attention, podcasts are where they've already given it. No one accidentally listens to a podcast for 45 minutes. They choose to be here. They trust the voice in their ears. And when that voice talks about your brand, it doesn't sound like advertising. It sounds like a recommendation from a friend. Acast gives you that trust at scale. Digital precision, post-read authenticity, and performance data that proves it worked. Don't fight for attention. Buy it with Acast. Learn more by visiting acast.com slash advertise.