Premier League Predictions

0:04Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times. Manchester City top, Sunderland 7th and Nottingham Forest avoiding relegation. What does the Premier League table look like if you try to predict all the results this season? On today's show, we'll be looking ahead to the return of the Premier League and trying to predict how things might play out. We'll also discuss the other stories that caught our eye during the international break and check in on any Scottish hangovers. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today, we have the senior sports writer and Sunday Times columnist Alison Rudd and the former footballer turned journalist Gregor Robertson is here, not wearing his Scotland shirt.

0:41I'm still buzzing though Tom you were specifically asked to wear your Scotland shirt and you're not you're in admittedly nice grey jumper but still it's cold as well it's not cold give over you're forgetting your roots here you're still buzzing though I was taking the little one to nursery in the morning after and it was snowing asleep I was toasty inside Tom toasty inside with pure joy still buzzing I mean we did our Scotland special yesterday which listens I hope you've checked out and please do go do so if you haven't already but still overwhelmed with joy I imagine still can't believe it? No I mean there's a lot of disbelief I've still been watching the goals back on loop really like the celebration with the players in the changing room when Kenny McLean's goal is just going over and over and they just keep celebrating over and over they go oh hey hey hey and then they show it again and do it again and again that's basically been me for the last three hours You in your living room and everyone Have you tried showing have you tried to engage your eldest daughter in it saying look at this this is Scott McTominay this is an overhead kick no not yet not tried any of that come on it'll come it'll come she's you know she's got a lot a lot of you know glorious feeling to look forward to still probably no it can't not now I mean as Gregor says Alison this is completely unscotland like wasn't it it was remarkable to watch these amazing goals going in and a turnaround victory from the jaws of defeat like this is this was not Scotland but it was fantastic but weirdly that's what they wanted I mean I think under Steve Clarke Scotland have been okay I mean they've qualified for the Euros and they were on track sort of to qualify for the World Cup it was looking a reasonable possibility and yet the undercurrent seemed to be oh there's no identity and I'm not sure I'm not sure they're entertaining enough I mean what are we watching here there was a sort of underlying sense of bleakness and it's as though you're stacking it down here no no no No, but then I can't believe they planned that it would be quite so thrilling.

2:46You think they needed the jeopardy and drama to produce four brilliant goals? It was a bit, I call it tantrum football. It was a bit like, if this is what you want, this is what you're going to get. Because you were outplayed, Gregor, for a large chunk of that match. Yeah, we don't talk about that. Oh, I just realised, Gregor, the reason Alison, it's because it was Denmark. This is why she was out. I didn't think about this. How stupid. How stupid of me. Erickson was on the bench. Because Alison, you're not in a Scotland shirt. Alison is in a Denmark shirt. She sat here, tears streaming down her face.

3:20But I mean, it was very, very special. As I say, listeners, if you're wondering why we're not going into great depth talking about Scotland, it's because we've already done it with Gregor and Michael Grant on a show that was published on Wednesday. So do go back and check it out. Alison, you're talking about that kind of tantrum football. with no tantrums from England, a clean, easy progression to the World Cup. And it made me think, as a lover of a bit of drama yourself, every now and again, I was going to say tantrums, but decided not to, listeners. A bit of management there. Would you rather, as a fan though, a little bit more jeopardy or are we happy as an England fan?

3:57Are you happy going 22 goals scored, no goals conceded, eight wins cleanly through to the World Cup? Or would you have liked a little bit more drama and jeopardy in there, thinking of our Scottish and Irish pals. I mean, there probably are fans of England who like how smooth it's been. I mean, I'd rather I was from Uzbekistan or somewhere, to be perfectly honest. I want to be the underdog. Yeah. Why are you a Liverpool fan? It looks so... I can't... It's Scottish, isn't it? Why are you a Liverpool fan? Because I was conceived and born in Liverpool. I have no choice. Ah, OK. You could swap. No, you're not allowed.

4:32You've had a long time of being a Liverpool fan. Come and be a Lincoln City fan, I'm telling you. The only downside to being a Liverpool fan in my whole childhood was that we won a lot and I did sort of think, I wonder what it feels like to be the underdog, where those moments of joy are fleeting and few and far between and therefore what do they feel like? They must feel astonishingly good because as a Liverpool fan you get rather a lot of joy. I mean, I felt the pain. I felt the pain when you did lose something. But there was always the offset of, you know, next time it'll be fine. So with England, it's like, I don't feel any obligation to be an England fan just because I'm English.

5:13And if you're appointing an overseas coach, you know, you can take that away. So I wish I could. I wish I was Welsh. I wish I could feel that sense of going against the odds and upsetting the odds and summoning performances that are greater than the sum of your parts. Why do you not wish you were Scottish? I'll tell you why. There's quite a lot of you in journalism, I'd say. It'd be good, actually, Alison, if you were Welsh, just to balance it out. I said, don't answer that question, Alison. You may fear me. No, I was asked to play for the Wales international team. So you could qualify. But I could only qualify if one of my grandparents wasn't English.

5:56Oh, how interesting. That's what the rules were then. I think, why not? Just for the sake of the rest of your journalistic career. So I could have been a Wales international. Yeah, you could. Well, you can be a Wales supporting journalist from now on if you want. You don't seem that bothered about supporting England, which is absolutely fine. The reason I'm not a Scotland fan is I, Euro 92, I did Euro 92 on my own hitchhiking. So I met fans from every country and had an absolute blast. I have to tell you, most of it can't talk about on the podcast. An absolutely wonderful time except with Scotland fans who won fans of the tournament and everyone was going on and on about the Tartan army.

6:39They were bloody boring. Did not engage at all. When they weren't on show, when they were not on camera, they were really quite dull. That is like what Gregor's like on this podcast. This is taking a really disappointing turn off this episode. Just bringing you back down to... I'm going to stand up for the Tartan army here. There's a reason why Maybe when fans of the tournament... You could have changed this attitude by having your shirt on. That would have changed it all, I think, if you'd come in with your Scotland kit on. Something to remember for next time. There you go. Proof. Proof.

7:10Let's move on, Tom. I love it. Let's move on. Let's talk about Wales there, because, Alison, you're saying you wish you could be a Wales fan. I'm sure lots of Wales fans are very happy after their 7-1 win against North Macedonia. Well, they've already basically secured their place in the playoffs. so they're there in pot two. By the time you're listening to this, you will have found out who Wales have got in that playoff place. But Gregor, some of the goals in this game, we've talked before on the show about Craig Bellamy and what he's done to this side in terms of the confidence and style of play, but we really saw it in this game.

7:40The goals were terrific. Incredible, yeah. Harry Wilson was on fire. Brennan Johnson playing with a smile on his face as well. That's been one kind of slight mystery recently. He's not been able to get a place in the team. And ultimately They've fallen short of Belgium They lost to Belgium last month And that was a decisive game for them But it's been a really positive Group for them And start to life under Craig Bellamy So they're going into the playoffs With optimism, I think They should, absolutely And they've got a lot of talent, a lot of pace A lot of dynamism in attack And actually now, a lot of experience at international level that's the thing we spoke about with Scotland in the previous episode like Steve Clarke chose to build a team around like a core of players and like make sure they got as many caps as possible and eventually you've seen that they got over the line after kind of having some disappointments and you know very much hope that can be the case for Wales too Yeah Wales in there as well Republic of Ireland of course we discussed then with Tony Cascarino on Monday's show Northern Ireland also in there as well How good would it be if all the nations went.

8:53It would be great, but as I say, there is a chance you'll be listening to this show and they'll have drawn each other. That is a possibility. Well, yeah, that would be it. I would certainly hope it's not, but also you've got all the big teams in there. Italy, Ukraine, Turkey, Allerton's favourite team, Denmark, might not be at the World Cup. I presume you'll riot if that happens, Allerton. Yeah, it would be a bit disappointing, wouldn't it? There are 48 nations at the World Cup. Not only should it be, you know, Ireland and Scotland and Wales, it should be Canterbury and Gloucestershire. She got for the wrong sake to fit this morning.

9:28It's because she knows we're going to talk about the return of the Premier League and it's not been going that well for Liverpool, but there is time for that. Talking of teams that are smaller nations that have qualified, Curacao, the tiny Caribbean island of Curacao, the smallest nation ever to qualify for the World Cup. Basically, a cocktail has qualified for the World Cup. I'm sure we might get some listeners from Curacao who are very offended by that. But just to say the record, previous record for Smallest Nation was held by Iceland who reached the 2018 finals. But the population of Curacao, just over 150 ,000, similar to Cambridge or Huddersfield.

10:05There you go, Alison, from the article that I'm reading. They've got the same landmass as the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man. An amazing achievement though. Also for Dick Advocat, by the way. Age 78. Another cocktail.

10:20very good I mean I should say listeners it's not often that we get much response from our producer Neil who is a fan of very kind of slapstick comedy and I've just had a double thumbs up through the window at that joke Alison you could retire now you've made producer Neil very happy with that one but congratulations to Curious Out I should say the drama as well after the VAR penalty overturned in like the 94th minute Jamaica and my goodness scenes absolute scenes yeah amazing like there's you know it's true 48 teams there's going to be look there's four debutants now Kurosawa Cape Verde Uzbekistan Jordan these aren't nations you're used to seeing at a World Cup but it's playing havoc it's playing havoc with my window display because the rule is that's the real reason she's upset she doesn't own the flags that's why I do know for my birthday present this year I got a flag from Uzbekistan a flag of Jordan flag of Cape Verde your birthday present you're making this up no no it's true swear swear on I swear on my cat's life, yeah.

11:19You've got your birthday present. Well, not my only birthday present. Oh, thank God for that. Goodness me. So listeners who might be just new to the show, Alison Rudd decks her fairly sizable house out every year with the flags of the World Cup or the Euros. And there are rules. And there are rules. You have to have hosts. There's a hierarchy. So there's three windows taken up by the host. Three of the 12 windows. Yeah. So I might have to change that rule. I'm not that keen on having the USA flag on my house. Politically dicey these days, yeah. And then another dead fast rule is debutants get a space.

11:50So the real, but you haven't got a Curacao flag. Yes, it's true. Put them on the front door. I can guarantee you a stocking filler will be Curacao flag. Oh, that is actually really sweet, isn't it? Wonderful. And a Scotland flag. Quick tangent, did you see there was a headline in a Scottish tabloid, Donald, where's your boozers? Donald, where's your boozers? Sorry, that just popped into my mind with a USA flag. Yeah. But as well, just talking about the Curacao, that meant that Jamaica falling into the qualifiers and Steve McLaren, a tearful Steve McLaren, resigning as Jamaica head coach after the game.

12:27But you would, wouldn't you? They've still got a playoff place, but there is something humiliating to going out to somewhere the size of the Isle of Mount, isn't there? When you're not expected to. I can see why he got emotional over that. Yeah, but just also for his standing in his career, He's already the wally with the brolly who didn't get England to a Euros. He's now the guy who couldn't get Jamaica to a World Cup when it maybe couldn't have been easier and then quits and cries and says, one love Jamaica. I mean, poor guy. This was Alex Ferguson's assistant when they won the treble. This guy's had a good career.

13:05And he's completely ruined it, the poor lad. Honestly, absolutely terrible. Poor, poor Steve McLaren. But maybe, as you say, he only had one choice. so we should just say as well I always wanted to mention guys and it's a bit of a sprawling show already we're talking about Alison's flags and some of her previous travel arrangements whether Gregor's got his wardrobe right or not we're back in our regular studio today we've been sharing the studio with our pals at the Rook our rugby podcast and Will Kelleher the deputy rugby correspondent on the podcast on Monday had quite an interesting hot take about international rugby being the best of all the international sports Now, he had his pal Owen Slott, the chief sports writer, with him, who I think if listeners listen and watch the clip that you can see on our social media channels, you could see Owen squirming, thinking, as chief sports writer at the time, saying, oh, my God, he's backed me into a corner here.

13:57I'm on a rugby podcast. I'm going to have to agree with him. But actually, it's a World Cup next year in football. We've got the Ashes starting this week. Will, what on earth are you talking about? And then we also had Ireland and Scotland games. Greg, a little baffled by our good colleague, Will. clever lad nice lad but he let himself down his family the paper he's really let everyone down quite badly there with that statement yeah I mean of all the weeks to pick as well we've got Irish excitement Scottish two of the most exciting games ever in the history of international football and then we've got the Ashes starting as well we've got Mike Atherton the chief cricket correspondent and former England captain reporting for the Times and he's banging on about the Autumn Internationals I mean we like Will we like Will a lot we think you should go and listen to The Rook whenever you can.

14:43Search The Rook wherever you get your podcasts for more hot takes. But Will, if you ever want to come on the game and just, we can try and explain to you the excitement of football. There's this little thing called the World Cup coming up next year. We think it might be pretty good. I kind of admire him though. That's devotion to your craft. Maybe he's never watched a football match. Maybe. Maybe we could watch it with him during the World Cup and see how much he enjoys it. Anyway, do make sure you go and check out The Rook. They've got lots more considered takes as well as Will's hot takes on their show.

15:10Search The Rook wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, it's time to take a break because we want to leave plenty of room to talk about the return of the Premier League when we come back. So let's have a question from Bill Edgar's Premier League quiz. Gregor, I don't want to put too much pressure on you, but if you don't get this right, I don't think I can bring the quiz back because it's going to get in your head too much. This one is linked to the North London Derby, which is happening this weekend. Both clubs have used Wembley for their home Champions League matches in the past. Which team beat both of them 4-2 at Wembley Stadium?

15:40beating Arsenal in October 1999 and Tottenham in October 2018? Find out after the break.

15:58Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Alison Rudd and a triumphant Gregor Robertson with me. Thank goodness he's back. we're back up and running with the answer to the quiz question which was Barcelona Barcelona thank goodness for that it did take you a while but I gave you the space it was a bit of a punt to be honest yeah it doesn't matter you're off and running and listeners you can take part in Bill Edgar's Premier League quiz every week on the Times website Alison we immediately went to a break and you said the immortal words that you often say to me on this podcast Tom you didn't let me tell my story so go for it listeners I should say me and Gregor do not know what this story is just sometimes when we're warming up, we're doing like mic checks.

16:42We're like, you know, waffling on about something. Gregor sometimes says what he's had for breakfast or that he's quite tired. Apparently parenthood is quite hard. You know, I say some nonsense about Lincoln City. And Alison sometimes tells us a very whimsical story. This time she said, no, no, I'll tell it on the show. So Alison Rudd, over to you. This might get us cancelled, Godness. Oh, I mean, that's outrageous. Anyway, no, no, my dear friend Sarah and I are planning to go to Helsinki in the spring to look at their noted array of Art Nouveau architecture. Right, okay. So far, so normal. We met up on last Saturday.

17:25I said to her, go away and think about which dates would work for you in April because we probably should avoid Easter. Maybe it'd be more expensive to go in Easter. and she said, well don't we have to wait for your friend who's giving us the tour to tell us when he can make it? I know where this is going. I know where this is going. I said, what friend? She went, you know, your friend who's going to do the tour for us. I said, you don't mean Yari Littman, do you? She went, yes, that's his name. Yari Littman. I said, Yari Littman is a god. He doesn't do tours of Art Nouveau in Helsinki. She was quite disappointed.

18:01She got the wrong end of the stick. Hang on. Are you sure you haven't convinced all your friends that Yari Littman is best pals with you? Is that what this is? No, to be completely honest, I had said to her... I feel like she might have given that impression. I had said to her... Couple of wines, I love Yari me. I had said to her, I will let the world's greatest footballer know I'm coming and offer to buy him a drink if he's in the vicinity. Right. But somehow in her head, this has become him giving us a tour of his home situation. Should explain that you spent how long trying to get an interview with Yari Lippman?

18:35Ten years. Ten years, yeah. And then you finally got it. Yeah. I mean, he's a friend. He's a friend. He's a friend. If you count the odd emoji, a text. From you. If you call stalking friendship. Fantastic. Okay, let's move on. Gregor, how did we not see that coming? There's a story. It must involve Yari Lippman. I can't believe I didn't see that coming. Anyway, the Premier League is back. I feel like we've managed to talk for about 20 minutes and barely talk about football. so let's do it now the Premier League is back absolutely huge games this weekend Liverpool at home to Nottingham Forest is a big one Fulham at home to Sunderland I think is really really interesting we've got Newcastle against Manchester City on Saturday evening and then we've got Arsenal Tottenham the big one the North London derby Alison you're going to us I am to that game sorry for us on Sunday excited apprehensive that it could be 0-0 I'm slightly worried it'll be 0-0 as the person editing on Sunday you always want the big game to be loads of drama and loads of incidents.

19:33Yeah, yeah. No, well, I mean, you know, let's just say it and then you can all laugh at me next week. I'm convinced this won't be nil-nil. I know I could make an argument for it being nil-nil. Really good. But I've just, I mean, Tottenham are better away from home for a start and they seem to find scoring easier away from home, strangely. So they're an ideal team to play a team that are very good defensively but without Gabriel, who's injured, you wonder what the knock-on effect of that might be. When a single player gets so much good publicity and is evidently so integral to the way a team performs, it almost is a self-fulfilling prophecy that it will be an impact on their defence, even though in practical terms it shouldn't be.

20:20You can club the size of Arsenal with their resources. I mean, they've got strength and depth and that's why most people are tipping them to win the title, they can, in fact, absorb the loss of Gabriel. But, in fact, I mean, when I've watched Arsenal live, I've always come away thinking, wow, he's the defender of the season, isn't he? Wow, he does... Just his presence at a set piece, let alone if he's involved in it, is, you know, he might not get the assist or the goal, but his being there seems to make other teams wobble quite a lot. he's just so influential so I do feel that it's set up that's a long winded way of saying I don't think it'll be nil-nil I don't think it'll be nil I think there's a possible there'll be a glimmer of a chance for Spurs because they're good away from home they won't be nervous about taking it Gabriel is the first chink in the sort of armour because we've said that already any player they didn't want to lose really it's probably him or Saliba because they have got great depth now like greater than they've ever had before even like you could put Calafiore in there but he's injured as well well he's doubt and put Louis Skelly you could play Muscari you could play Piero Hincapi like they're two players who are like serious signings and have really they've kind of they've not really made their mark yet so it's an opportunity for them but you still feel at the moment anyone is a step down from Gabriel so that is that is the first chink and the first sort of real test for Arsenal because you know losing Odegaard even Saka briefly they're so stacked in forward areas it's like they've been able to completely ride that out no problem So Alison you're saying quite confidently that you don't think this North London derby will be 0-0 and we're talking about some of the players who might be missing injured who do we think will be the key players then Van de Ven has been excellent for Tottenham so far this season but they've lacked some creativity Well maybe we were talking in the first part of the show about Brendan Johnson having a smile on his face I mean you know what you want to what you want to see as a club manager you don't really like internationals and you don't want to see your players go off because they might come back with a, as we've just been discussing, they come back with a knock and so you think, well, okay, I've lost the players and I hate getting the gang together after an international break, it's broken up our rhythm but Thomas Frank will look at Brendan Johnson and think, ah, I like this, I like this version of him and he'll be, he'll be, you know, he'll be feeling fantastic, won't he?

22:52He's come back with a good news story So I think players who've come back from the international break feeling with a little bit of extra sparkle, I think that might be a key for Spurs because the problem Spurs have had has been that their more notable creative forces, Kulisevsky and Madison and so on, Solanke, have been out. But if the ones you've got have got an extra spring in their step, that might count for something. Do you not think? Yeah, I mean It could be unexpected Leo Trossard has been someone who's stepped up From the shadows and been really Impactful in recent weeks I wonder whether it might be someone off a bench Because I agree, I hope, you're right Alison, that it won't be a 0-0 game but I think It might be tight early on and that we might Then get breakthroughs in the second half, I hope I'm wrong I hope it starts fantastically and Incredibly excitingly from the opening minutes But Trossard's a player who has Nearly got sold in the summer of course But he's come off the bench a lot of times both in Europe and in the Premier League and shown what he can do so yeah that could be a good shout what about Tottenham?

23:58could it be Brennan Johnson off the bench? could be I mean the one thing is like as Alan said Spurs have been better away from home because when they're not really expected to be the main protagonist it's okay for them to sit in they've even mixed up in their approach as well I remember them going to Manchester City and doing a completely high press and being very successful and they got the win that way but I can't see them doing that against Arsenal I think they'll try and sit in and frustrate them and like it's been the season of the set piece but these are two of the best teams at set pieces it could well be that this is a game decided by another set piece Yeah or if we could score some goals from open play lads let's change the narrative Yes please Let's mix it up a little bit we've had a two week break for the internationals let's come back and score some screamers from long range any other fixtures that are particularly grabbing your eye as I said Fulham at home to Sunderland is one that's catching my eye Fulham having had that win at home against Wolves and oh panic over everything's fine then lose again oh no we need to win at home but except they've got Sunderland this time Gregor this is a quite intriguing one isn't it yeah Sunderland's start has been outstanding but the one for me is Liverpool Forest actually I mean if you're talking about I've spent a long time talking about how like Slott has kind of beamed out to the entire world what Liverpool are struggling to deal with this season which are teams that play long balls against them and they're coming up against Sean Dyches Forrest.

25:23Like, I think this could be another test for them. I have to admit, if I was young Sean, I'd be licking my lips about this one. Really? Because Slott has said, I mean, I'm a bit surprised he said it, but he has said several times now, oh, you know, teams are trying to play, use long throws against us, use set pieces against us. The ball's in the air too much. we're not playing proper football anymore well if you're coming up against Liverpool what do you do? Do what annoys them if you know you're getting under the skin there go for it, so he will he won't care, Sean Dyche, go for it What do we think Liverpool will do in terms of their team so many different changes that Arna Slott has made this season?

26:06Andy Robertson will be drunk some issues there it's really hard to say that I mean he You still feel like He's going to want to try and get You know He's gone back to Kind of reverting to To the core of the team From last season Yeah yeah And I felt he could rely upon But still there's got to be An urge to try and get You know Verts on song And new signings on song And To sort of See a way into a future That is not looking Towards the past And that's That's the challenge That's the challenge for them For the rest of the season And we don't We don't know We don't know I mean Maybe Paul Joyce, who reports on Liverpool for us a lot, does know.

26:49But I don't think we know quite what pressure slot is under in terms to make those signings look good quickly. And what sort of pressure he's under every time he doesn't start one of them. And how many minutes they get. If you're an executive at Liverpool and you've signed off on over 500 million worth. Yeah, 450 million around. That's roughly what he's saying. Yeah, whatever. Rammed up. then you know in stark terms you're going to look at the team sheet I think that looks very peculiar I think from a business point of view that's odd you can get away with changing it if you need the results to kind of because also I mean I think they'll qualify for the Champions League when I talk about our predicted tables in a minute I think they'll easily do that but you start looking at are we going to keep them in yeah the income coming in from Champions League qualification and things like that so I think you can rest some of these players if your justification is no let's get some momentum going, let's get some consistency going and let's get some points on the board.

27:49Fair enough but I think he's just looking around to find the team that's going to win the next game for him because it's been a desperate run and that's why he's gone back to the more familiar and tried and trusted and the more familiar look in midfield and the only question is whether Verts comes in on the left I think but I wouldn't be that surprised although there are all those pressures to see him kind of sticking with that until he can ride out this sort of rocky period so i'm going to do the thing that you don't like now but we've talked about two of the big games i'm going to ask for some predictions for both these games the north london derby and liverpool forest as two of the bigger games this weekend uh i'll go first because it's easier when i make myself look stupid but north london derby i'm going to go 2-2 oh i like that 2-2 draw i think that'd be really exciting game and liverpool forest i'm going to go for a liverpool 3-1 win with some goals from some of the new signings a bit of a statement Arnest Lott's had the international break to think about a few things it's going to be a good start Gregor predictions on those two I'm going for an Arsenal win I think quite comfortable actually interesting yeah 2-0 maybe 2-0 Arsenal and I wouldn't be surprised if Forrest nicked a point like yeah I think Sean Dyche will kind of relish going there and knowing that the football his approach is what Ruffles Ruffles failures and I think they could well sneak a point I'm going for Spurs win narrow Spurs win yeah got a feeling yeah narrow Spurs win and Liverpool Forrest narrow lucky Liverpool win narrow lucky Liverpool win some bold predictions for us there's only three of us in the studio we covered off basically every result possible speaking of bold predictions let's end with a look at Alison's column in the Sunday Times last weekend which was headlined sorry Arsenal fans Arsenal for the title question mark not in my predicted final league table the international break has left the Premier League on a cliffhanger I've gazed into my crystal ball looking at all 20 teams and the effect of everything from injuries to AFCON do you want me to read the table first or do you want to give us some justification before I upset lots of fans of teams in the Premier League Alison what would you like?

30:00OK well you know first rule of journalism don't just give people what they've already got so I haven't gone for the existing table necessarily I actually think that would have been an absolutely big hot take if you've just gone, hmm, actually exactly as it is now. Nothing will change. Maybe go up and down, but it'll basically be as it is. Well, you could do that, and it would be the safe thing to do, would it not? I don't think that would be the safe thing to do. I think that would be the renegade thing to do. That would have been the really baller thing for you to do. I don't think anyone would have published it.

30:29250-word column. I think it looks about right, actually. Bang, done. Send. I'm off to Helsinki. See you later. So explain to us a bit more about your rationale behind this league table before I tell listeners where you've got the league table looking. Well, I felt I probably maybe gave too much significance to it, but I felt the 2-2 draw between Arsenal and Sunderland was quite significant in terms of what it means for the rest of the league when they approach playing Arsenal. I think so far, up until that game, they'd had a little bit of an aura about them. Yeah. And what Sunderland did was treat it like it's a knockout and a bit of fun, pulled in the advertising hoardings, made it difficult to unleash a long throw.

31:17Just the attitude of doing that is max of fearlessness, really. And we're prepared to take what we have and have a go at you, actually. And if we can be a bit silly about it at the same time, fantastic. And the fact that Arsenal weren't able to lift themselves above that and be as imperious as they would have hoped to have been at a stage which was rocking and so on. I don't think it would have knocked Arteta particularly, but I think it will make other teams feel that actually they're not that imperious. Let's have a go at it. And if we can move the hoardings, let's do that. I think people will do that now if it's physically possible.

32:02And also there's now the, we're now, you know, we thought we never would need to talk about injuries with Arsenal, but inevitably it will be a factor if that imperious defence does wobble a bit. Someone's missing. So the point of not having Arsenal finishing top was if they're going to look more mortal, who doesn't? And generally when they're on a run to a title, it's Man City who don't look mortal. They look like they could do it in their sleep sometimes. And also I figure, isn't it counterintuitive not to have the team with the best striker by a distance in the division, have that team winning the title?

32:49Because I think we've all wasted quite a lot of time talking about Erling Haaland's touch maps and what he doesn't do but what he does do is always score a goal Score a bucket load of goals Shall we do the table Gregor? Would you like to hear Alison's predicted final end of season table? Let's do it Man City top Chelsea second Arsenal third Liverpool fourth Arsenal third's bold Arsenal third is bold but listen you can have your say in just a second my son Liverpool fourth Tottenham fifth Bournemouth sixth Sunderland seventh Manchester United eighth Aston Villa ninth Brentford tenth Brighton 11th Crystal Palace 12th Crystal Palace are always 12th aren't they?

33:30Always 12th than everyone's predicted league table at any time of the season Everton in 13th Newcastle in 14th Fulham 15th West Ham 16th Nottingham Forest 17th Burnley leads Wolves complete the bottom three What's interesting is that as much as you were joking about oh I could have just done the same league table the biggest change I think looking at this is Liverpool up four places up to fourth from eighth where they are at the moment and other changes Bournemouth up three places no but I actually agree with you because I'm going under some of our predicted tables in a second where we think people might finish I've got Liverpool even higher we've got Aston Villa down three places Sunderland down three places but still in seventh Leeds down three places but not loads of changes and you've still got Tottenham, Brighton Everton, Newcastle and Fulham and Wolves all in exactly the same places they are now Newcastle's an interesting one.

34:23Yeah, that's law. That is, that is, that is. They are competing in Europe at the same time. So are they going to win the Champions League? No, I'm not saying they're going to win the Champions League but it does seem to affect them. Their results post a European week and I've seen them, as you've pointed out in the past, I've seen them on successive weeks playing away from home and being really quite abysmal. If they're going to carry on like that, they'll be looking not to get relegated. So it's quite a generous placing, to be honest. Based on your evidence in front of you, I respect that. Gregor, your initial reaction, as you said, you jumped in on the Arsenal point, but is that the main one for you?

34:59Yeah, that's probably number one, yeah. Because you'd have Arsenal first, would you? Yes, yes. How does your top four differ then to Alison's top four? In every way. I think it would be Arsenal, then City, then Liverpool, then Chelsea, Probably just about So the same top four The same four teams in a different order Interesting And I think Newcastle are low I've said it for a long time It happened the last time They got in the Champions League They struggled They're having a weird Away from home Sort of I don't know Kind of nightmare But I don't think that'll go on forever I think I think Palace are maybe a bit low I think Palace could Well again I don't think they've got quite the depth to do their European adventure 12th to win the Conference League also as much as I would love the chant again they can do it again this season can't they as much as I would love Bournemouth and Sunderland to finish 6th and 7th I don't think that's going to happen either how much lower down do you think they will go like I think Bournemouth will finish in the top 10 I think Sunderland may not not top 10 come on don't go breaking Sunderland fans hearts when the Premier League is just returning see I actually think Liverpool will go even higher my top three would be Manchester City first sorry Arsenal fans I agree with you Alistair City are starting to look like a juggernaut that could keep going with Erling Haaland provided they keep in fit Arsenal second I'd have Liverpool third I think it will click they've got good good very good players there but in my piece and I think when you look at Liverpool's fixtures even Liverpool could be they could they could turn this around quite quickly I think they will win on Saturday and then they've got West Ham Sunderland Leeds Brighton at home Brighton are a good side all these sides are good sides but until they play Tottenham away and Tottenham are rubbish at home apparently until they play Tottenham away on 20th of December they could be right back up there Liverpool if they get it right with these good players there's four points off City in second yeah like there's there's four points between second and ninth yeah like I said I think I don't think it's going to be there's going to be big gulfs between you know there's usually sort of tiers in the league I don't think that's going to be quite as pronounced this season so undoubtedly you're right things can change very quickly and yeah Liverpool still have one of the best squads in the division that will click yeah just before we finish looking at the relegation places and Alisson's predictions I think AFCON I mentioned that in the analysis as well I think that is an interesting point and you make the point about Brian Bumo at Manchester United we've said recently it's all clicking it's all together for Ruben Amarim you've got an 11 that works the 11 doesn't work during the Africa Cup of Nations when Brian Bumo is not there Sunderland I think have got the most players going away seven so yeah it's true that's a big thing that's a big and Wolves have got quite a lot missing as well and they seem at least need to have another interruption yeah Africa Cup of Nations taking place at the end of December through to January so a lot of players missing for some big games Gregor just on Alison's bottom of the table what do you think about what she's got there down the bottom of the table like she's got Forest and West Ham just sneaking out I feel like that's maybe where a lot of neutrals were heading towards at the end of the break last time.

38:17Yeah, I think we got giddy, didn't we? I think probably you're right. I think it'd be a miracle if Wolves pulled away and Burnley and Leeds were. I think it will be tight. Which of those two, if there was one that would keep Forrest and West Ham honest in terms of a relegation script? I think either of them. Burnley are really competitive. You look at anyone going to Turf Moor and it's Chelsea this weekend in the lunchtime kick-off I don't feel confident Chelsea will go there and win Burnley are really competitive and it's been a difficult place for anyone to go this season so far it's not like in the previous season in the Premier League so I think it will be tight and they could well survive but I've said for a while now I can't look at the table and see who's been dragged in West Ham have had their uptick with Nuno and I still don't think they'll pull clear but they look like they've found something now.

39:15Forrest the same. I don't think it'll be a comfortable season for them but I think they'll survive. And then you're looking at Fulham would need to kind of capitulate. I think Brentford would need to fall apart. I can't see anyone else. Newcastle as much as Alison's saying she's being generous they're not going to get relegated. It's very, very hard to choose who goes down this year. You've got to be happy with that as a reaction to your predicted Premier League table Alison. Other than Gregor being upset about Newcastle and Arsenal, I'd say we're... Gregor did faux upset there, I feel. He more or less agrees with me.

39:46Gregor's not upset about anything really this week, is he? No, I'm not a bit. He basically say anything to him this week. We'll leave it there. Gregor, it's our fourth show in a row this week. It's been a big week. Yeah, it's been a big week. No wonder you're... Many levels. No wonder you're a little bit tired. But thank you very much for joining me. Listeners, I should say, if you want to send me your predicted Premier League tables, we can revisit them on Monday's show because we will be back then with Alison and Gregor. So thank you very much for listening. We'll see you then.