PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM BY TEAM SPECIALS: Part One

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2:14Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and welcome to the new football season. This is the first in a special series of shows looking ahead to the new Premier League campaign. Over the next 10 days, we'll be speaking to our reporters across the country to focus on all 20 clubs in the league. And yes, we'll be previewing the Championship too. Today we start with a close look at Arsenal, Crystal Palace, Brighton, Tottenham, Brentford and West Ham. And joining me, Tom Clark, we have the senior sports writer and Sunday Times columnist Alison Rudd, the reporter and tactics analyst Hamza Kalik Lunat and the reporter and transfer expert Carrie Jacob.

2:53Team, welcome back. We're here together in a studio side by side. Alison, it's wonderful, isn't it? It is lovely. It's really nice, isn't it? We're all so excited for the new season. Hamza, you're buzzing. Bit distracted by the cricket, aren't we? We are a little bit distracted by the cricket. And when you asked me last week, are you ready to go in the podcast? What did I say? Already? Yeah, already. I couldn't believe it that we're back already. the football season is eternal it's here and Gary it doesn't stop does it Hamza as you learn from covering a wonderful tournament in the summer exactly yeah yeah yeah but it was nice it was very nice to have some time off and then watch the cricket but now we're back we're ready for football you won the trophy I wouldn't go that far Hamza's triumph it is two wins out of two two out of two yeah some things never change Hamza is clinging to his fountain pen Jesus yes that's true he's ready to make notes Alison because this is going to be an in-depth fountain pen A lucky charm, Hamza, for them.

3:46Maybe you can go to the World Cup next year on the back of this. That's a fantastic idea, Gary. I've just said that in front of the bosses. I see a little bit of teamwork going on, but Hamza is ready and poised with that pen to make loads of notes because we are going to dive deep into these six teams today. And let's get started. Let's get straight into it and start with Arsenal. A massive summer for them. I'm just going to quickly run through their transfer dealings, ins and outs. They've signed Kepa Arizabalaga, Martin Zubamendi, Christian Norgard Nani Maduweke Christian Mosquera and the big one they finally got it over the line Victor Jocherez from Sporting Lisbon that striker that the fans had been crying out for Kieran Tierney Nuno Tavares Jorginho Marquinhos Thomas Partey and Tommy Asu have left so Gary start with you lots of business done already for Arsenal just give us a quick sense for their fans do you expect many more ins or outs I think there still is a still a strong possibility and are still a left winger if Trossard goes.

4:45And I think anyone who's watched him in pre-season can see they need a left winger. They want someone who's a little bit more direct on there. And Eze would probably give them something a little bit more unpredictable in midfield. The one caveat to that is they've played down in pre-season. He's a kid, but he's looked fantastic. So obviously he can't play. He's 15 years old. And Arsenal clearly want to keep him because in time, obviously, other clubs and actually sign him until he can sign a proper contract. So he'll get minutes this season. He cuts in off the right. He can go both ways. And he's just looked like a complete brush of fresh air.

5:23So it'll be interesting to see whether actually they go. I think they will go ahead with the SA deal because you can't expect a 15-year-old to kind of carry you and you can't expect about a minute. So I think, but they obviously need to get some outs out the door. Who else would be looking at getting rid of? Out the door. So Kivio to get out. Still Lukonga. They've still got Zinchenko. So there's a lot of clubs in the Premier League who've got people they want to get out the door. It's a kind of old age story. It's like people on good wages who don't want to go anywhere. Do you expect them to get those outs to get done in some way or do they have to happen before Eze can happen?

5:56I think Tross will have to be out the door or on the way out the door before they sign a left winger. I think Eze is a slightly different one. I think that could happen regardless. But certainly the left winger. And I wouldn't be surprised if they go back in for Rodrigo from Real Madrid. but only on loan at the end of the window because the argument will be he's not going to play at Euro Madrid we can take you on loan for a season we can all feel each other up see how we all kind of get on and then if we kind of get on then we can go from there interesting well that's huge that will be my guess but it's only a guess it's alright don't go to the world basketball fans will not hold you to it don't worry I'm not available on Twitter he is business he really is he's fantastic he just never checks it give him a follow but the most see I think the most fascinating signing of all the people you've listed.

6:42And he did that off the top of his head, people. He did. It's very good. I think we need to talk about Nonny. Nonny Madweke. I have no idea why they've signed him. Really? And if you look at, oh, how might Arsenal line up the first few games of the season, most people would put him on the left. Why would you? Why would you if you've got Saka on the right? But he doesn't play on the left. And when he has played on the left, he's been rubbish. But he's quick and direct. See, I disagree. He doesn't look quick and direct on the left. A lot of my friends who are Arsenal fans completely agree with you.

7:10Why are we signing Madweke? Why are we signing him? And, you know, I remember a show at the end of last season where there was a few of us and we were talking about how Arteta likes these forwards, doesn't he, Gary? He likes versatile forwards. He's not versatile. I think he is quite versatile. What evidence have you got for that, Tom? To the point about Saka, just very quickly, I'll come back to answer that question in a sec. The problem with Saka was that they rely on him all the time. You know, Hamza did lots of excellent analysis, how teams double up on him, and it's always on Saka. If you have Madueke, you can rotate them.

7:40He doesn't have to play every game. I also think Madueke running in behind. Arsenal don't have many players who actually run in behind defences with pace, with direct running. And I think he could do that. I just think he could be a really good option. I don't think he's going to shock everyone and score 15, 20 goals or anything. I think he could be a really important squad player. I agree. He's a reasonable backup to Saka, who when injured, Arsenal have struggled. and it's good to know you've got someone that can do similar stuff. But I mean, that's not a grand plan, is it? But he's also quite young to say this is exactly what he does.

8:14This is someone we've got for when Saka's injured. This is exactly what he does just on its own. I agree with you. It's a fascinating signing. I am just slightly more in the can. We had this discussion a lot. We have had it over the Arteta managerial era at Arsenal. is, is he somebody who thinks, I can get more out of that player than the managers he's had so far? Yeah, I think there might be a bit of that in it as well. And Madwecki has been, at Chelsea, one of those players who does knock on the door of the manager a lot, whoever it is, and says, I should be playing more, I should be playing more, why aren't you playing me more?

8:48And they've sort of fudged a bit about attitude and needing to show it regularly. And he is, he's an up and down sort of player and managers don't like that. They like to know that, you know, they're going to see something in training and they're going to see something in matches and it's not going to vary wildly from match to match. So you would see Madweki looking like the best player in the universe for 20 minutes. And then for the next two months, you wouldn't really notice him very much. And managers hate that. And so Arteta's thinking, I've seen how brilliant he can be, albeit on the right and not the left.

9:20I've got the skill as a manager to make him consistent. But I think it's a bit of a risk and I predict now I don't think he'll be a huge success at Arsenal I like Madoeke I think he's a good player I liked him when I first came across him a few years ago I thought he offered quite a bit to Chelsea in terms of directness and he's a good player and he's definitely top four quality the thing is when Arsenal signed him I get a sense that they are bringing in a player in a similar situation to the way that they brought in Marina a really good player but one that doesn't necessarily move the squad forwards or when I say forwards I mean literally up the table.

10:02I think when you're in this position where you finish second or let's say you finish fourth, you want to sign a player or sign players that literally move you up the table and I'm not quite sure Madweke, he'll be able to give that impact to Arsenal. If he's a rotation option, that's great but you shouldn't usually sign players for the sake of them being rotation options. The idea is actually that you bring in a better player and then the existing player that you have in your team then becomes a rotation option and that's how you sort of refresh and update the squad. I think they personally, I think they needed elite players like Hamza says to kind of raise them to the next level.

10:36But I think they've looked at it and thought we had so many injuries last season. We need this, and our bench at times was too thin. We need, and we've only got a set of budget. We need to have a much deeper bench. And I think if you look at all of the players they've sort of signed, they're all similar value. But Madwecky doesn't like being a bench player. But then he'll have to deal with that because that's kind of par for the course that was going there. That's kind of, you're not going to be a kind of first choice. I think he wants probably 60 or 17 players. I don't necessarily think it's right, but of a similar ability that can kind of change to change positions, change players, change this, change that.

11:14So when you look at it, it's easy. He had 14 draws last season. and he probably thinks, well, if I could have turned those into X number of wins through Gorkes or through someone else to kind of convert some chances, I would be a lot closer to Liverpool and a lot more pressure on it. Now, I think there are a lot of Arsenal fans like you, Alison, who would say all the signings were a bit, we were expecting a little bit more. We were talking to Nico Williams, who's meant to be this amazing left winger. We don't get him. We don't get this one. We don't get one. And so I think the Arsenal fans are going to be a little bit, I think they're holding on to judgment for now.

11:45Do we think that even about? Sorry Gary But what really I think Will kind of be the crux of all this Is that if Isak does move And Sesko moves here Arsenal have got it all played out In front of their eyes Because if Isak shines at Liverpool And Sesak shines somewhere else Everyone's going to go You've made a mistake here You've gone for the wrong players Which is based on the idea That Victor Jokeres is not going to be The player that they want him to be I mean the interesting thing about Jokeres Is that at the start of the window they were like, he's too old, he's in the sense that he's too expensive for the price of his age.

12:2027, isn't he? 27. But then clearly Leipzig weren't moving the dial on Sesco. So you're saying you think at the start of the window they preferred Sesco? At the start of the window it was Sesco, I think for the fact he's younger and he's got more options. But I think ultimately they couldn't move the price with Leipzig. If you look at all the Arsenal prices, they're all quite similar. and I think they've kind of taken the decision that the wages and fees, the combined number of that, has got to be in a certain band. And Nani wasn't an expensive player on wages by all accounts. So I think they've taken that decision and I think Alisson and Hamza are right.

12:56Is it going to beat PSG in a semi-final? Probably no. You don't think any... I don't think there's one player they signed who's going to get into the start in Leverend, actually. You don't think Jokras starts ahead of Havertz? Because he loves Havertz. he actually loves Havertz Hamza Alisson I mean even as a we often I often bring this point in about you know the PR side of football it's a hell of a move to sign Victor Giocherez and have his you know the celebration and everything and this long protracted drawn out thing and give him Thierry Henry's shirt and then go you're Kai Havertz back up isn't it I mean I'm not saying you're wrong Gary it would be very Michael Arteta but that is that's a bold move for a bloke desperate for a trophy Havertz might have to play a slightly different position because you think he really loves Havertz in the team It's just fascinating, isn't it?

13:40I mean, that's... Alison... He'll get a chance, but I can equally see him again disappearing from view. It probably depends on what sort of season Havertz has, to be honest, to begin with. Because I think Havertz... There is an absolute star inside Havertz. Really? And we haven't quite seen it yet. So, hang on a minute. I honestly thought we were going to come in and talk about Victor Giocarez, and now we're saying he's a backup striker signed for nearly 60 million quid. This is an outrageously good hot take to start the season previously. The rest of the reporting staff are going to do well to beat that one.

14:15So I'll go through them again. So Kepa, backup goalkeeper, signed. Zubamendi, I mean, he's a starter, right? They have signed one starter. He's probably the only starter, yeah. Because that's the point Hamza just made a minute ago, wasn't it, about Madweken? He's Spain's holding player. So they've signed at least one definite starter. And then Norgard from Brentford, squad player, for those moments when they're missing midfielders. that's the key signing she said putting her I love Brentford hat on we'll come to Brentford in a bit Alison Arsenal have signed him why have they signed him I mean he's got he is a proper leader and no matter what's going on as Gary has pointed out there have been a lot of matches that Arsenal have drawn and if they'd won them the title race would have been different a different sort of race maybe there's been a lot of matches where you think a bit more character a bit more good sense on the pitch getting those rhythms and right at the right moment, they've just sort of fallen short.

15:09I do think Norgard has that captaincy and ability to rally the troops and just be what is needed, whether that is to make them fly forward or to be more defensive. He's a great under-the-radar signing, I think. I wouldn't have signed Norgard. At no point last season was I watching Arsenal in a match where they were, let's say, losing or drawing and going, you know what they needed right now Christian Norgard I like him he's a good player but as in not even to close a game out no again I think this is going to be a theme for all teams when you think about spending your money it's far better to save your money and go for the player you really want than spending some or a sizable amount on someone that you're not too sure on just for the sake of filling a gap the upside of filling a gap is negligible the upside of getting who you want is so much more, I mean, you'll come on to other clubs who have gone after who they want later in the pod series, right?

16:12But as in, when you get players you're not really keen on, and you spend, and Norgaard isn't like this because he wasn't too expensive, but if you spend in that sort of 30 to 50 million pound range, if you do that two or three times, there's a real cost to that in how you can then operate in the market. And I think Arsenal have done this a few too many times on Giocares. given that they had reservations about him I wouldn't have gone so firmly in on him because he's really good at what he does and what he does is breaking behind on transition counter-attacks that sort of stuff when there's loads of open spaces fantastic having watched Arsenal for the past three seasons that's not something they really do anymore if they change their style if they tweak it if they become a bit more attacking a bit more direct playing for those spaces a bit more then that would suit him I'm not sure we get that sense from Mikel Arteta that he likes that sort of stuff.

17:02We'll see. If he does change that, then I think it'll work really well. If he doesn't, then I think you're just going to have a good striker just in the wrong sort of team, in my opinion. But yeah, Eze would help him. There were a couple of things against Tottenham that suggested he was going to try and change his style to be a little bit more... This is a recent friendly where they lost 1-0. Yeah, like Hamza's talking, to kind of be a bit more direct and a bit more to kind of play into his strengths and to play into what... Right. So it will be interesting to see if he does, if Mikel does change it because he has been fairly predictable Nassar are now quite a functional team so that that'll be one of the things to kind of look out for very interesting I mean I'm amazed you're dissing the Norgaard signing you're basically taking the soul of a club that has overachieved more than any other club in Premier League history and you've grabbed it for a very negligible amount of money and plonked it in a team that has sometimes struggled for character you can just transfer like souls you can though can't you do you not think that comes back to that PR point though that you know Hamza touched on it with the Arsenal fans and I keep referencing them you learn from your mates like what?

18:03They were like oh no God Well then they're idiots All your mates are idiots Tom All your mates are idiots Tom Listening to you guys is fascinating I think what Mikel Arteta has done previously as a first time manager has been wonderful I do know that he goes into this season under huge pressure I was looking at it going they've made some strong signings here they've finally got a striker listening to Gary talking about them maybe bringing in Eze I'm like this is the big one and I've just listened to you guys talk for 15 minutes and thinking they're not even going to challenge for the title here I mean where are we at here are we in like Mikel Arteta under pressure at Christmas type territory or do we think they're they're capable of challenging with Liverpool and Manchester City they're capable absolutely they're capable my gut feeling is they'll they'll just fall short slightly fall short slightly having been in the race and finished third or never look like being in it no I think they'll I think after eight weeks we'll think there'll be someone in this room saying I think Arsenal are going to win the title and after 20 weeks there'll be someone saying why did I say that interesting probably both me are knowing my track record of predictions Hamza what do you reckon about what we said and where we're heading with Arsenal into this season yeah there should be roundabout types of challenges I think you don't necessarily I'm not getting the sense from anyone that they think last season finished and it was like right next season Arteta has to win something I think he's got a big enough squad now you think Samoa's 14 draws will be turned into wins but if you're playing them against PSG or Liverpool and if Liverpool get Isak you won't be saying, I don't think Liverpool are going to be looking at the Arsenal signings and going we're really worried about those signings and that really is going to be different I think in the really crunch games but maybe Arteta thinks there's other 14 if I turn 7 or 8 of them into wins I'd get on Liverpool's tail I think there's probably two things, it's the style thing and the other thing that I forgot to write down and I will remember in a second they just need to tweak that aspect of their game to become a bit more attacking to get a bit more output from the attacking guys oh the other thing is fitness sorry the key thing I think for Arsenal actually this season is to make sure that their players are fit and that means not overplaying them if Mikel Arteta can keep his squad fit and not overplay his players and not lead to the point where some are getting injured so okay last season they did have a few which were genuinely unlucky injuries but a lot were soft tissue injuries and you really shouldn't be having soft tissue injuries especially in training because you're able to control the workload in those sessions so just being able to rotate a bit more well he has the ability to rotate more if he does that then they should definitely improve just by having the players available and them hitting their level but yeah I think that's a key question for him can he resist playing Saka all the time even now that he's got Madaweka I agree with that I think he hasn't shown much willingness to rotate over his past few years.

20:59He trusts a certain amount of players, and then beyond that he goes, I'm not really sure about them, I'm not sure I want to play them in that game. Now he's got perhaps a slightly deeper squad, so is he actually going to rotate? Is he going to take Saka off for 60 minutes? Is he going to not play him against Burnley away, for example? We don't know, and it's down to him. you feel like sometimes Mikel Wolves goes back to that quote well Messi played 80 games it's like well but you know that's Messi and Bakayo's got lots of problems with his has lots of problems with his legs so you know perhaps you need to play him less interesting only one team in guys and we are already dishing out the fascinating analysis and probably infuriating a few fans out there as well but please do get in touch with me with your thoughts tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk we're talking about Arsenal needing to win a trophy one team that did win a trophy there's going to be some ropey links in here guys I'm not going to lie Crystal Palace Crystal Palace winners of the FA Cup last season in fantastic fashion Gary start again going to whiz through their transfer dealings or lack of lack of as the case may be Walter Benitez in from a free from PSV Eindhoven Borna Sosa from Ajax for 2 million Joel Ward has been released Jeffrey Schlupp Luke Plange Joe Whitworth David Ozzo and Rob Holding as well not a massively exciting summer for a Crystal Palace fan you've already teed up the idea that they might be losing Eberha Jayazay shouldn't they be worried?

22:22It's part for the course of what they've done under the current owners in terms of leaving things late but I think what's really interesting is that Glasner's already complained via the Austrian press and I think that's quite telling. He complained last autumn about why were we so slow to make transfers and that's why I've had a slow start to the season and he ended the season saying we need to be better and Steve Parrish is saying yeah we need to be better than what we did and actually they're not. So they might say, well, it's all down to Cass, and if we get in Europa League, we'll have more money, and we can do more things.

22:54But not only are they not signing players, they've also got in the background the fact that Gahy's got a year left, and Eze's got this demand from Arsenal want him. Okay, they're probably part of the Wartom one. Mateta have still been eyeing, looking, seeing if there's a possible thing. So they actually do need to get on. I think above all, they need to kind of satisfy Glasner, really, because he's proved to be a really good manager, and he wants his players, he wants some centre-backs, he wants another attacking player. And I think for them, obviously, in the short term, the cast judgment, which is later in the week, they go to cast and try and argue they should be in Europa League, not in the Conference League.

23:33That decision will be made by Monday, next Monday. So perhaps we'd expect Palace from then to kind of move and actually sort of, OK, we know where we are, we'll kind of go a bit. but obviously I think Liverpool Newcastle are still looking at Gay he is a possible so they would need something for that but that has been as well just on the players you know a bit of the kind of model of they have these excellent players that they give a chance to they build them up they give them Premier League experience and then they cash in kind of one at a time don't they you know Elisa is a good example of that so the idea of them losing one of those players but are you suggesting they could all go I think the interesting thing is that they Elisa had the clause so there was a very easy way for him to get out Eze's also got a clause so there is a way to get him out but they dug in when it was Zaha and they really dug in and actually in the end he never got his move so if you're Eze now or you're any young player like Warton you go well I'll come here like I'll go to Brighton if there's an opportunity for me to be sold and sold on somewhere else and you're actually going to do that but if Palace are going to always put their foot down and say sorry we're not going to sell you then you change the way a player would kind of come to you as a club and think about you as a club and also they might just say well sorry we want a release clause otherwise we've got no way of definitely getting out and also at least had that.

24:45So it'll be interesting to see what happens with it, because that will affect, I think, what happens going forward with players who are looking to go to Palace. They are the most dispiriting right now. I mean, if the judgment goes their way and they are in the Europa League, we'll all feel a bit more excited for them. But right now, the contrast between the mood after winning the FA Cup, the things Parrish was saying, the things Glasner was saying, the things the players were saying, you felt, oh my goodness, they're going to be in Europe. they're going to they're going to bat Glasner they're going to make signings they're going to this is so exciting they'll hold on to all their stars water nets as they say so on it's going to be amazing and then slowly there's been this sort of it's like watching a balloon slowly deflate you know well literally a balloon at the party you know and it's just become negativity negativity and they do have a get out because I mean you can imagine behind the scenes how angry they are that so much is up in the air and it all it's very hard to they didn't you know I'm sure even lawyers practiced in European football couldn't predict which way it's going to go and we sitting here now don't know which way it's going to go because there's precedent and there's precedent for both sides so what do you do?

25:56But there is this is the slight contrarian's view and I'm very upset about them not getting in the Europa League and the slight hypocrisy of it They might still but you're saying oh they're in Europe they will still be in Europe they will still be in Europe in a competition that a man of Oliver Glasner standing white look at with a good squad and go we can win this guys we could win a second trophy but it's only worth it if you win it and it's so debilitating on your Premier League campaign you Chelsea did it because they had two complete separate squads Crystal Palace really don't have it West Ham did it West Ham did it with a good squad with a couple of very excellent players if they keep some of them they can win the Conference League it might I agree with you about the analogy about the burst balloon at a party but you know they can have another party again at the end of the season if they get it right but there's a lot of Glasner has won the Europa League.

26:43It's a step down for him if he's having to juggle with no signings in the Conference League. It doesn't have the same cachet. What do you think about him and his standing, Alison? Obviously, having interviewed him before that Cup triumph and watching him and watching his team, does he look like Gary's talking about players they might lose? He's got one year left, Glasner, on his contract and I think he's deliberately allowed that to happen because he's basically, I mean, maybe it's not so hidden a message, but it seems to me the message seems to be I'll be loyal to you if you back up what you tell me you're going to give me by actually doing some business and so I think they're going to have to be very busy and imaginative in the final weeks of the transfer window for him to think this is a club I'm going to plan long term for Crikey I mean the Crystal Palace fans are very sorry for you having to listen to this but I'm sure it probably echoes a lot of your own thoughts I mean if you were looking at this with the players that they've got Wharton, Mateta, Eze, Mark Gahey and then the Glasner himself doesn't sound like they're going to keep all of them.

27:45Who are the most important people for them to keep hold of for this season out of that collection of players? I think Gahey would be difficult for them to keep unless they just decide whatever's offered on the table is not enough and we'll just let him ride out the last year of his contract or go in January. Eze is probably the one they'd really want to keep but I think it all goes back to then are you sending a certain sign about your club you might argue you're sending a sign we don't sell our best players but then the counter is like well if you're a young player why do I go there and this is probably Eze's last chance if we're last time it felt like it's probably his last chance he's had a brilliant season Wharton I think I believe is staying because he obviously had the injury and he wants to kind of and he's very important but Mateta as well is hugely important Mateta was hugely important I don't really see there's a market maybe for Mateta at the moment I think a few months ago he was probably hoping there was but I'm not sure where the market is for him he's not a young player but you're right he was hugely important, Sal was hugely important in the way they played as well so I think they've got a really important few weeks ahead Crystal Palace and I think Alice is right I think if you're Glasner you're saying well you know I'll be loyal for the next few months let's see where we are but I'm hardly going to sign anything you know I'm going to see where we are over the next few months after that I'll just play it out because there'll be plenty of teams who want them next summer Hamza, thoughts listening to the guys and the points there?

29:08Would you be worried if you're a Palace fan? Yeah, I think the biggest issue is the sporting director problem. Obviously, Dougie Friedman left, and that's quite disruptive. Ideally, when you think about transfers... Where did he go, Hamza? He went to Saudi Arabia. Exactly, just thought I'd point that out. But with Palace, with clubs, when you have a signing, usually you want to sort of do a little bit of background maybe a year out, maybe even two years out you're thinking about this player might be suitable for us and then around six months before you're going to re-engage with the player, the club the people around them just make sure that you've got everything in order but when you don't have a sporting director who can't sort of think long term and think about the next five years and how you're going to get your players in and which players you're going to monetise over that time in order to buy further players down the line it makes it really, really difficult.

30:02So I think having some sort of permanent resolution there is actually more important than individual futures of certain players. This could have been the rebirth of Palace. It sounds like the complete opposite. This could have been the moment. I was so positive about them. Got to ask the question about relegation. Just yes or no? Oh, no. Palace, no. No, no, no. There you go, Palace fans. There you go. There we go. It's a quick no, no, no, no to end on. I suppose a positive of sorts. Let's finish part one of this show with a look at Brighton. I'm going to start outs and ins, because I think that's the better way round to do it, given some of the players that have left.

30:37They, honestly, they're very good at selling players, aren't they, Brian? God love them. João Pedro on his way out. Simon Edingra, Valentin Barco, Odilego Ophaya, James Beadle, Yon Du Jong, Evan Ferguson, Pervis Estupian, Kjell Sherpen, Carl Rushworth and Aaron Cashin have all gone out, either on loan or on permanent deals. and in come, here's the list of players Francis Ford Coppola in come, a list of players who you've not heard of but by Christmas they'll all be in your fantasy teams and we'll all be talking about how great they are and they might be on their way to Chelsea Tom Watson we've got Shara Costoulas Diego Coppola, Olivier Boscala and Maxime De Cooper pronounce that better Francis Ford Coppola Francis Ford Coppola, yeah, not quite exactly that, I think it's Diego Coppola but anyway, we'll come back to him in a minute Gary, more business expected?

31:27Or do we look like... I think they saw a couple of defenders and another attacker. They can't be selling anyone else, surely. I don't think so. They're looking for a couple of defenders and another attacker. Kostolos, I'll probably pronounce that completely incorrectly. Looks good to me. Looks very good, yeah. Where does he play? He's a forward. He's a Olympiacos. So will he be the Jao Pedro replacement? He's only a kid, yeah. Right. And he's only a kid. But from what I gather, he's a really exceptional player. The interesting thing is the fact that Tony Bloom's got this wonderful relationship with Chelsea, who just keep giving him money.

32:02Whether it's Potter or whether it's the backroom staff or whether it's some players, it's fantastic, isn't it? Jean-Petro is a hell of a loss, isn't he? I think when we talk about Chelsea in a few shows' time, I think he's a great signing, but it's a big loss for Brighton. Well, no, I would say. They've kept Danny Welbeck, so all is fine. No, a bit, but also, step forward, Mr. Reuter, who I think, if you're talking fantasy football, I think he's down as a midfielder and he's literally you can see the pitch opening up for him the goals are going to be his and he just started to play as a centre forward hadn't he Gary?

32:34hadn't he? Hamza I think just saying So you wouldn't be worried No I think it was getting clogged up I think they're looking a bit sharper in terms of where they might be shape wise where players fit in I didn't do an awful lot of Brighton matches but the ones I did I found them slightly confusing because they seem to have too many slots to fill and the changes made were like, oh, shouldn't he have started him? It was all a bit like, almost like too much going on. I think it's good to have a bit of a, take a scythe to the wheat field and then work out who you've got existing at the club who might shine better for a bit of a cull.

33:17And I do think Ruta might be one of those. But where do we think, where do Brighton go? Because they've had so many successful seasons, but in terms of finishes, going back from last season, 8th, 11th, 6th, 19th, 9th, sorry, then 16th and near the bottom half of the table while they're establishing themselves. But that's four very good Premier League season finishes. No, no, all I'm saying is when people look at who's left, they might think, ooh, losing a few stars. But actually, I think it looks like good business to me. And history there suggests that... They know what they're doing. They know what they're doing.

33:51And he's always, you know, the thing about Tony is that he's always got the names ready in his draw, isn't he? He knows he's two steps ahead of the game already. So I think, you know, when they signed Pedro, they knew he was going to be sold. I think that was kind of, and he obviously was quite keen to move on by all accounts and around the club. So I think they prepare for these things really well. Any pressure for Herzl? I feel like with Forest and the Europa League and other teams, you know, maybe, and Palace and Europa League, there's, again, there's a chance for them to kind of break in top nine, top eight again, isn't it?

34:24That's a good point, actually, with all the teams in competing in Europe. With the people of Tottenham also got demands of that, I think there's a good chance for Brighton to actually kind of break in there this year. They won't have the extra demands. But Herzl, you kind of think, hang on, he was like, what, 14 years old and he was made for Premier League manager. He'll have learnt so much. I think this might be the season where we see more of him and his personality as a coach. And they weren't that far away last year, were they? He might do 3-4-3 or something. They weren't that far away. They and Brentford weren't that far away from just breaking in.

34:55It was just, they... They had a few... It's just in the running, the few, they let themselves down. Could be the season with Brighton to get a trophy. Who knows? There we go. There's a nice prediction to end part one on. After the break, we'll be talking Tottenham, Brentford and West Ham. But first, time for a little quiz question. Jin will obviously be talking about Tottenham after the break. Departing Tottenham legend Son Heung-min has made the second most appearances for Spurs in the Premier League. Who holds the number one spot? Find out after the break.

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38:25Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Alison Rudd, Hamza Khalid Luna and Gary Jacob with me for the first in our series of Premier League previews looking at all 20 clubs in the top flight. We're going to carry on after someone tells me what maybe is we think the answer to the quiz question, which I thought was Hugo Lloris and then everyone else in the room thought wasn't Hugo Lloris. So anyway, not the finest start to the quiz question aspect of the show. But thankfully, we can dive straight back in with analysis of the teams and let's talk about Tottenham.

38:57Gary once again I'm going to run through those transfer dealings Kevin Danso in from Lanz for£21 million Luka Vuscovic Matthias Tell who obviously was on loan last season his movement made permanent Mohamed Koudas and Kota Takai all coming in out go Hoiberg Forster Reguillon Whiteman Vélez Mikey Moore on loan and Son Hung Min obviously on his way out too some of these deals are already in the often like Danso and Tell I don't think Till pulled out many trees to be honest last season but it sounds like there was some sort of obligation in the contract if they won the Champions League or if they qualify for the Champions League so it sounds to me the interesting one is Kudus because he had quite a good first season at West Ham I think he's terrific signing and he's very direct but he chucked his toys out a little bit in the second season at West Ham and I think he was a bit of a pain at times so can we said it on there and I think probably they were quite happy to sell him I think they probably were expecting much more of a profit if he'd had the better second season so it suited all parties and he looked really good last week against Arsenal in the pre-season friendly he gave Skelly a really difficult game and he's got a bit of an ish to him I think he would be quite a good player for Frank in the way he plays so that's an exciting one but obviously Madison's injuries Yeah, that's what I was going to say and obviously they went for Morgan Gibbs-White Morgan Gibbs-White It didn't happen Do we think that and Sond leaving they need another big signing up front don't they in a forward area?

40:36They need another attacking player yeah definitely maybe not a winger but definitely a central attacking player you know don't hold me to this it'll be interesting whether they go to someone like Grealish just because he's available on a loan they've been quite cute we're going for Paulino he's played in a Premier League he ticks a box he will be a great sign I'm so glad he's back in the Premier League. What a treat. I don't get the polimia thing. You don't get it. You don't get it. If you've not watched him live, if you've not watched him live, Hansel, amazing. This is when everyone was like, oh, he's going to be amazing at Bayern Munich.

41:05He is amazing. He does something really well. He wins the ball really well, but that's all he does. I don't think he'll be really great. I don't think he's Bayern Munich level, but I think he could be a brilliant player in the Premier League for Tottenham. I think the key is that Bayern Munich, he was signed by Tuchel, not by Kompany, and Kompany clearly wanted a completely different player to play in that position than him. But he would be fine for Frank because he's had Norgoth. Sorry, Alison.

41:30So he'd be fine. But yeah, they probably need some more attacking players. And probably he's another defender. And I think Frank's going to want maybe one of his own signers. I would have expected him to have actually signed Norgoth had Arsenal not pipped in there with the whole pitting with hard. Don't think they'll nip it and get Wisser? We're going to come on and talk about Brentford shortly. I think Wister's pretty much going to Newcastle once Brentford sort their replacement out. Obviously one of the biggest, most significant signings of Tottenham have made is not on the playing staff. It's in the history of their history.

42:04In the history of their history. Alison Rudd, I'm still not over it. I can't believe we're not talking about Antipas Tocoglu, but I'm going to leave it. This is the final therapy session. We're moving on. Thomas Frank, Tottenham manager, Alison. Well, aren't they lucky? And to be fair to Spurs fans, they know they are. and they love every word the man utters. So they're going to win the league, is what you're saying? Could do, couldn't they? She loves Thomas Frank so much she's prepared to say it, Tottenham might win the league. I mean, on the one hand, the whole thing's quite hilarious. On the one hand, they have signed somebody who's never had to juggle Europe and the league, let alone the Champions League and the Premier League.

42:42He's also never had people shout at him ever. Because he's clearly a very good bloke and a very good close. He was a Brentford legend. he's never had the entire Tottenham Stadium going you don't know what you're doing mate so on that level it is you could argue you know you could actually write an essay and say this is the most ludicrous appointment in the history of football 800 words by tomorrow please but having interviewed Thomas Frank a lot and watched him in action a lot and seen his teams play a lot I do think it's more on the side of it being an inspired master stroke and what they've got to do though is because his history is he tends to lose or at least not win his first eight games so they need to be patient with him in the short term You set yourself up there I don't know if they will be patient if he has a bad start but he might well have a bad start but long term if they let him let him take a deep breath and do what he wants to do and creates the culture he's so good at creating a culture it's that balancing act isn't it where everyone feels they're part of a journey and they love each other and there's so much camaraderie, but there's also the hard work and he has his no bullshit policy.

43:52And if he's allowed to put that together, and he probably will be able to because he's taken half of Brentford coaching staff with him. So it's not like he's on his own. He's got his mates with him who will help him create that. So this is where I think you're wrong, Hamza. I think Paulina, it does actually give a sort of focal point to that is that we're not here to be airy-fairy Spursy. we're here to be a proper team and we're not going to try and win a certain way we're going to win but we're going to do it with integrity, that's what you'll get with Spurs I think under Thomas Frank, lucky them With players like Paulini I guess the key thing is, another example is like Agate as well at Manchester United the key thing is to pair them with someone that can do the other stuff that they can't do so as in, at Bayern Munich it didn't quite work because he was just trying to win the ball and they wanted him to be a normal number six an all-round number six that would be able to progressive ball forwards.

44:49If Spurs can reconfigure the midfield so they have a bit more of a creative player alongside him, I don't think Sar quite does that or Bissouma or Benton Coeur, so I'm not sure how that's going to work at the moment if he just slots in as a starter. What do you think of the Kouda signing? I think that's a wicked signing, I really like that. Wicked signing, that's a great sign, Tottenham fans, if you're getting a wicked from Hampton. That's a good signing. Alison just mentioned the coaching staff. One of the guys was really well regarded at the FA and Brentford when he was there was Justin Cochran as well at the FA they're like this guy who's going to be well they already believe that he is top level he was going to be Brentford's manager yeah so yeah it's one to keep an eye on just to see how he develops and what he will learn from from managing in the Champions League and top tier Premier League team as much as we're all backing Thomas Frank and everyone loves Thomas Frank this is a huge challenge like Champions League I didn't say that that's how I started it but I've been there's no guarantees for me with this and I mean I'm obviously saying this as much as all the team talks are nice we need to be aggressive win your duels be brave test yourself it's not as inspiring as Ange Postacoglu is it let's be honest he's a safe pair of hands but the interesting thing is that after that Conte and Mourinho who were trophy winners they've gone to Ange's exciting football and a trophy winner Gary do not forget that and a trophy winner but not okay he arrived as a trophy winner and left as a trophy winner and left as a trophy winner sorry Alison but the question is what is Frank to them really and I suspect they've looked around and there really wasn't anyone else out there that they perhaps could have I'm not sure which other manager they could have gone for who would have ticked their boxes so he's probably a safe pair of hands I think he's got a lot more ability than perhaps he would have had the licence to at Brentford because he's got a small squad he needs to keep in the Premier League he's completely different now he's got better players to work with and I think he was unfairly pigeonholed a bit at Brentford, wasn't he?

46:46Yeah, but the clincher, I think the clincher is Brentford always did incredibly well against the top six teams. Yeah. I mean, their narrative has been, if only they could beat the teams you sit back and defend against them, they would have easily qualified for Europe. So the fact, if you're watching him as a candidate to be your next manager and you see how he performs against Liverpool and Arsenal and Man Utd and so on and Chelsea, well actually if he can do that with Brentford he can do that with stars shining for us what is obviously I'm slightly jokingly pushing the Postacogli narrative but they did win a trophy and then still change the manager after admittedly a terrible league season what is success for Thomas Franklin is it about changing the culture at Spurs is it about winning a trophy is it Champions League qualification is it playing good football Spurs still finish Spurs I know the fans had a great day out the Europa League final but they still finished the season a laughing stock and the owners do not want their club to be a laughing stock so what's the what they want is a team that people respect when they play Spurs they're a little bit scared they you know no one takes it for granted they can get points off them that they're they look stable more likely to win than not win able to handle the Champions League and this is where it's a bit off having Frank because he's not got a record of doing this but they need to be able to look like they can because Ange Postacogli was completely unable to juggle Premier League in Europe even though it wasn't the Champions League he could not do it I'm not being horrible he said it himself he said I cannot go well sort of he said his wife was struggling so they need to be I don't think in Thomas Frank's first year they need to win silverware they need to bring back the sense that Spurs are a big European club I think it needs to challenge for the Champions League and the league they need to be in the top six seven places What gives you respect?

48:40What gives you respect? Challenging for the top four, I think back to where they were a few years ago, actually challenging for that. And then having some good cup runs. The thing about the Champions League is like, now the top 24 teams qualify, you pretty much have to be pretty bad not to qualify. So you'd expect they would get into the knockout phase, the playoffs at a minimum. What happens after that, who knows? So the juggling perhaps is a bit less when it was a four-team group and there was more jeopardy. It doesn't seem much jeopardy. I mean, we watched the Champions League last season how many times are the games you're going oh this game's really important PSG nearly went out before we watched them play but then coming back to then we started talking about the squad and what they've got have they got a good enough squad to be challenging for top four top five so we then come back to it they're a bit short aren't they so a busy couple of weeks ahead to Hamza that there is probably the framing that people should think about when judging performances over a season the squad I've been thinking about this is it the team with the best squad or the best 11 that wins the league and I think it's usually the best squad the squad is usually what determines more than anything else more than the manager where a team finishes this is like obvious right but when you think about that and where a team should finish that means that you are judging on the quality of their squad and where it is relative to other ones and what you think the manager could add I think Spurs' squad is probably around 7th, 8th best in the league actually I'd take it down a bit because that's how I saw them last season they had Son so maybe around 9th best in the league what would be like two positions I'm not going to ask you for players but like two positions that gets them up to 6th, 5th, 4th an attacking midfielder I like the two starting centre backs are they going to keep Romero sorry that's the other thing I think Romero's probably there for another year now I think that's kind of I suspect he'll be captain and I suspect it's like he'll play in the Champions League play in the World Cup and then go next summer when he's got a year left but yeah yeah and attack him in his field Morgan Gibbs I was interested I thought that would have been a really interesting move I don't know if it would have been like super successful and when I say super successful I mean like oh he would have got like 15 goals and 10 assists I was just really interested to see how that might sort of work

50:54and maybe another goal scoring winger I think and possibly there are others you know Solanke can he play he's going to struggle to play with both competitions because he's had injuries in the past Rakarlson is he going to be back to the play he was he struggled under Ange because he can't do the running at Ange I'll tell you what if Thomas Frank manages to get performances out of Richarlison then he really is that really will be the sign of success for Thomas Frank loads of more still to come for Tottenham you would expect in the coming weeks easiest link of all this entire series of your whole life probably Brentford Thomas Frank Brentford Alison we're going to come to you in just a second but Gary keeping the formula we'll go through the players they've signed Michael Coyote Romel Donovan Kelleher from Liverpool has come in and Tony Milambo and Jordan Henderson on a free transfer fascinating that one out go Ben Mee Ben Winterbottom Mark Flecken Christian Norgard of course who we've mentioned Josh De Silva Brian Bumo to Manchester United and Jim Su Kim on loan to Kalsaslautern they need to make some signings especially if as you said a minute ago Jan Visser is off as well they signed they signed one forward Milambo from Feyenoord but yeah they do if the one's saying is the Vista will go once.

52:06They've found a replacement, obviously. I don't know how many goals that Vista and Mboma would have got last year, but it must be a very sizable proportion. I think it was like 1980 or something. Proportion-wise, yeah. So the proportion-wise must be very, you know, in terms of, they're definitely going to need to cover that. But like Alison said, they offered Cochrane a job and they've gone inside. So they obviously have a very confident in Keith doing the job. Keith Andrews, this is, yeah. And they're obviously like Brighton as well and they have their players they want to go to. very unseen players so But is this not more actually what we were just talking about what could happen to Crystal Palace has happened to Brentford they've lost their best manager ever in the history of the club absolute legend everyone loves him Norgard and Bumo maybe and Vista set to leave as well I mean this is a disastrous summer for Brentford isn't it?

52:54But they would have been aware of this three four months ago with Vista's contracts running down and obviously there was speculation in January and Bumo's probably been wanting to go for a period of time I think they've probably been banking on this. Perhaps maybe the Thomas Frank one was a bit more not certain if he was go. No, Thomas Frank's been tapped up at the minutes since he beat Arsenal in the opening day of their Premier League campaign when they first got promoted, basically. People saw that he was special. But what they weren't probably prepared for was everyone going en masse to Spurs.

53:26They probably thought they could keep a few of the backroom staff in City, which is what worries me the most about it, actually, is I don't think Keith Andrew was first, second or third choice probably. I mean, I hope I'm wrong. He seems very confident though. From reading his press conference that Gregor went to and watching all the videos that come out these days on social media that they do from pre-season training camps about things like that. But Alison, it's a huge job, isn't it? No, it's massive. It's massive and everything, most of what you love about Brentford is gone really apart from the ownership and the philosophy.

54:02so you hope that they are as clever as they are at Brighton. They're always lumped together, aren't they, Brentford and Brighton, as having owners that work the system and are always 10 step ahead of anybody else because they're crunching the numbers, they expect to have to sell, they expect their managers to be poached. They're always, in terms of chess, they're looking four or five moves ahead, not the next move. And so I really hope for Brentford's sake that that's what's happened here. but it just feels like there'll be huge, I don't know, a huge sort of loss of personality to the place. And you kind of think what they've got left, there were glimpses last season that Kevin Shard, who's very fast, by the way, couldn't finish, started to find shooting boots.

54:47If he has a great season, then you'll soon stop talking about Brian and Bumo, maybe. But I just, it's a lot to take on at once. So if they do not flirt with relegation after a few months, if they're not in that sort of pack, I think they'll be on track to be the story of the season if they manage to somehow absorb these losses. That is the slight framing that you come to, and this is me being mischievous sports editor trying to find narratives all the time. But the last two seasons, who can the teams coming up look at and think we might take their place? Are Brentford not the obvious one of the candidates that they start going, they've lost all these people and the manager.

55:27Yeah, you would, yeah. And Leeds, Sunderland, you know, start going, hmm. And so it's about, what it's about is just how well run is that club. And this is the season we find out. We already know they're very well run, but this is like, this is the absolute proof of how well run they are if they absorb all these high-profile departures. Yeah, I think they'll be okay. You think they'll be fine? Yeah, there's one question, Mark, that's sort of like a wild card. is Igor Thiago, the striker that they signed but we haven't seen very much of at all He was signed to replace Ivan Toni, right? Yeah, but he was injured so he just, I think he played a few minutes last season but that was about it It's going to be hard for him to miss a year essentially and then hit the ground running, but maybe he will and I think there's he was a player that I remember doing a little bit of scouting when he moved on, so his underlying numbers are alright I think he was in the Belgian League first and yeah if he works out then that will assuage many of the sort of questions that we have about Brentford but yeah I wouldn't bet the house on him I wouldn't bet much on him but it's a wild card that can be that should be considered might be surprising and the back line's still intact isn't it I thought maybe Spurs might have looked at Collins from Brentford I thought had a really good season but the back line's still intact so I don't know much about Keith Andrews apart from seeing him once against Bournemouth away where he changed that game and Bournemouth were winning and he was a set-piece coach and he was on the sideline clearly very vocal and he changed it with two goals from set-pieces so obviously he's not got that role in him and that wasn't his background he became the set-piece coach, he wasn't like a standard set-piece coach for 10 years so I think he's a very confident guy, he was Ireland number two for a period of time, he had some clashes when he was Ireland number two so I think and also the flip side is that most of us would say well when are we going to give younger people other people at the club a chance it's a fair play to Brentford they've gone for it if it doesn't work out they'll have to make a quick change we'll see what the future holds for Brentford another fascinating narrative to play out this season we finish with a look at West Ham speaking of fascinating I honestly have no idea what's going to come out for West Ham this season Graham Potter in charge obviously taking over halfway through last season.

57:51Gary running through some of the signing Jean-Claire, Todibo, sorry, El Hadji, Malik Jouf and Kyle Walker-Peters have come in. Kudus, of course, who we've mentioned. Kufal, Ings, Fabianski, Cresswell, Zuma and Antonio not there. That's quite a number of established, experienced players no longer in the squad and not many brought in. They're going to be wanting to do more business, aren't they? Absolutely. I mean, Kudus went to give them money to do more business. Their big problem last year is they just didn't have any legs. they were a really ponderous slow team and I think Potter needs to get some midfield energy and they've still not signed that.

58:27He's going to move to a wing-back system and I think the fact that they're getting a Gerd back who was on loan, he's coming back and he's staying. Tadibou, who wasn't really very happy last season, seems to be staying and Kilman will be the third. And Wan-Bissaka had a pretty good season, an underrated season. And they've signed a very good interesting left-back in Diouf who Palace wanted in January and he created the goal in the friendly yesterday and actually he looks quite good. I think the bat line might be quite good but their problem is going to be in midfield but they still don't really have any energy there.

59:01Interesting what happened with Fulcrook because he looked so slow and ponderous last season but have they worked on him in pre-season? Is he going to be a little are they going to play to his strengths which they didn't do before? Bowen's going to be Bowen and then can they replace and they've got Pacqueta obviously that's obviously going to be a big plus the fact that Will they keep him though? I think they will because I think the City ship unfortunately has sailed from his perspective and I don't think anyone's going to pay £60 million and I think who's going to pay it in the Premier League I don't know he's been linked with two teams supposedly with Newcastle and City where City's ship has sailed and I don't really see how Newcastle need him so I think he's probably going to have to stay there probably have a good season go to the World Cup if he does well with Brazil maybe he gets his move next summer and you know it's very sad on the boy that he didn't get the big move he wanted but he's got a chance in a way he's got a chance to repay West Ham and say thanks very much you stood by me are now delivering he's obviously a really good player Guardiola loved him you know he holds the ball he's aggressive Moyes always thought he was signing a Brazilian you think you might actually sign a guy who's a bit of a fancy down but actually when you watch Paqueta the guy's really aggressive you know he's very very determined mind.

1:00:16That's a huge boost for them having him but I mean this is also couched this season I think in the fact that Tottenham and Manchester United stole the headlines with disastrous seasons but West Ham's was a shocker really. 43 points finished in 14th, they changed manager, made a load of signings this was a new version of West Ham after thanks very much David Moyes, thanks for that Conference League trophy, those special memories but we're really kicking on now into this, whatever this version of West Ham was which turned out to be completely rubbish. They were the most boring team. There's a lot of pressure on Graham Potter here, isn't there?

1:00:48Yeah, because he's he was off the hook a lot because he had the, I haven't worked with them in pre-season card that he played. So he's in the same boat as Ruben Amarim now. He's had the whole of the summer and he was hired on the basis of giving the fans something more entertaining to watch. This is a big deal. The whole relationship between the club and the fan base has been toxic for quite a long time assuaged by being back in Europe but even so it's not been considered attractive enough so they bring in Potter gets even more dull honestly some of the most wasted moments of my life Did it look dull because the players didn't understand or did it look like a manager in transition because Potter has a certain way of playing that we all hear about It was join the dots, but with the pen running out, no one knew what they were supposed to be doing.

1:01:44It was very disconnected. And when you are disconnected and the message isn't getting across, you get very defensive football and scared football. There was no free-flowing. Occasionally, there'd be a move, mainly because Jared Bowen's a great player. But otherwise... I mean, Jared Bowen literally carried them, didn't he? Exactly, exactly. And sometimes you'd think, oh, that looked like a lovely move from West Ham, but it was really just Bowen having the ability to rise above the stodge, really. So he's had all summer, Potter, and I think he'll be under pressure very quickly if they play anywhere near like they played at the end of last season.

1:02:19Because it was unacceptable for someone who'd replaced someone who'd won new silverware. And so we're saying with what Gary was talking about with this squad then, that unless they make a couple of big signings... They need signings, they need energy. How many are we talking here, Gary? Like, what, two in midfield and an attacker? probably two in midfield yeah they signed Callum Wilson as another attacker but probably two in midfield yeah interesting I think I think Alice is right but I think Potter rightly or wrongly looked at it and he thought we shipped loads of goals under Moyes and Lopetegu I need to change that and he's kind of almost trying to make him really defensive and boring and I think he's trying to he's sorted kind of that out rightly but yeah going forward they were pretty poor If they don't get those players then I tease this idea with Brentford are they another club that you know Leeds Burnley Sunderland are looking at going we can take points Hamza you don't agree?

1:03:14Do you think they'll be alright again? They might think that they could but as in at the end of the day they've got Paquitar and Bowen who are just better players than the other teams have I don't mean that in a disrespectful way but it's when you've got that quality player I mean Jared Bowen and Paquitar are superb players but Yeah they can probably carry you through the tough times I think one of the issues they have here is that and Gary's mentioned this, they're just not fast and strong enough. And over the past few years in particular, we've seen how the Premier League has become even more physical.

1:03:43It already led the way in terms of sort of high-speed running, sprints, most intense, sort of all those figures, right? But in order to compete, you probably need a squad that has those qualities. And when you look at the front three, you go, whoa, when they had Kudus, you go, whoa, they've got all those qualities. And now you look at the team and you go, even with the additions, the few additions that they made, it still doesn't have that punch that they need to be able to be effective if they're counter-attacking or to robustly defend against teams that dominate possession. They can try and play a way where they've got loads of possession, but even then they don't have the snap that they need to get the ball to forward.

1:04:19I think you made a good point about Potter because he's sat on the sidelines for nearly two years post-Chelsea. Yeah, waiting for this job, waiting for this job to rebuild myself, my reputation. Yeah, absolutely. He turned down opportunities at Leicester and at other clubs. I'm not sure West Ham was the right one for him to go but he did it and now actually he needs to do it he's got I think one year and then he's got an option next summer after that so actually for him it's an important year for his own career he turned out Ajax as well remember he was linked to Ajax so he's kind of for him himself he needs to show well this is the Graham Potter that I was at Swansea and Ostersunds and at Brighton so for him it's an important year Big pressure on Graham Potter we'll leave it there Alison Rudd No Liverpool no Liverpool no Liverpool mention no Liverpool to come with Paul Joyce in a few shows time but Gary Jacob Hansa Cleveland and Alison Rudd thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening as I said if you've got questions you want to ask the team or points you want to raise get in touch with me tom.clark at the times dot co dot uk me and Gregor will be back with a championship preview on Wednesday and then this series will continue with three more shows as Pete Rutzler Paul Joyce Martin Hardy and Charlotte Dunker discuss the rest of the clubs in the Premier League.

1:05:33We'll see you then.

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