PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM BY TEAM SPECIALS: Part Three

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1:36Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. This is part three of our club-by-club Premier League season previews. On today's show, we'll discuss and analyse both Manchester clubs as well as Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest and Wolves. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today, we have the former footballer turned journalist Grego Robertson and the football reporter who helpfully covers both Manchester clubs, Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest and Wolves, it's Charlotte Dunker. Hello, Charlotte. Hi, you all right? Yeah, good, thank you. Just back from the tour, back and acclimatised, back from America.

2:09Delighted to be back in Manchester. Yep, delighted, not feeling too jet-lagged, so dead touch wood I've hopefully got over that. So, yeah, back was a good tour, actually, to be fair. I think the main word was calm from it, which is not something we've associated with Manchester United in the past few years. So it's going to be interesting to see how that goes on. Yeah, all with modern sports journalism or football reporting. Yeah, yeah. All these podcasts generally. Yeah, so Gregor, you're enjoying the shows. I did spot a very good, you know, I always like to hear from listeners and sometimes they're not happy with what we say, sometimes they enjoy it.

2:45But someone pointed out in the comments below one of the articles, there's absolutely mad order to this. And I guess I probably should have explained that the reason for the order of clubs is because of the journalists that we've had on, as explained with Charlotte, but someone clearly wanting a bit more of an alphabetical order type runner, but we're just keeping them on their toes. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. No, good to have people who actually know what they're talking about, you know, covering their patch. Yeah, rather than me and you. Just chatting nonsense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It helps if you can tick five clubs off in one podcast with someone who just covers half the country in one go, I guess.

3:18There's Charlotte's pitch. Charlotte's pitch for a pay rise, everybody there. Just a little, if it had fired my way, you'd all get more money, but it's not my job. Let's get stuck into it then. And there's only one place to start. We're recording this on Friday morning. And with that in mind, we have to begin with Manchester United. We're going to follow the same format, listeners. I'm just going to run through their ins and outs of the transfer window so far. Diego Leon has joined, as has Enzo, Kanye, Bic, but the two big ones already through the door, Mateus Cunha and Brian Bumo. out have gone Victor Lindelof, Christian Eriksen and Johnny Evans.

3:52Kanye Biak has gone out on loan, as has Daniel Gore and Marcus Rashford has as well. Charlotte, the big name missing from that list, obviously, technically I'm reading out the definite transfers, but there's a big name missing from that list, isn't there? What else can we expect from Manchester United in the window? Yeah, Sesko is the one that we expect imminently. He should be having a medical in due course after they agreed. a fee it's around 66 and a half million up front or not up front that's the first one and then with add-ons after it um so they are finally they are getting a number nine so we expect him to be the next signing through the door I think it's interesting because that takes their spend to over 200 million and I think if we went back to the start of the summer when we were discussing how much money Manchester United had to spend and how active we thought they were going to be Everyone we spoke to was saying they were going to have to be cautious, PSR this, financial fair play, keep within the budgets.

4:54And they've gone and already spent over 200 million. So they really need to be a focus now on trying to get money back. So get some players out. Obviously, Chelsea are interested in Garnaccio. That looks like maybe that could happen. Malassia should go, Anthony, Sancho. They've got Marcus Rashford's wages off the book. So there are ways they are looking at saving money. They generated 15 million from add-on sales. So the likes of Alanga going to Newcastle, they got some money from that. So that's where they're at in terms of incomes at the minute. The word is, they're not saying they're fully done, but the players that's currently being linked with after Seska are going to cost a lot of money.

5:34So it would surprise me if they went out and bought even more players in. They talked and Amarim and a few of the club hierarchy talked about once Marcus Rashford left, oh we don't need to get rid of the rest of the so-called bomb squad some of those players that you list there Anthony Garnaccio and things it does this sesco transfer change that and they now in a position where they've spent a bit of money that they're banking on getting from player sales no from being in America and speaking to people associated with the club the word was that they didn't they don't need to sell to bring a number nine in so like Rasmus Hoyland for example he came out in the mix zone and said he wanted to speak to journalists which never normally happens unless they've got a point to prove us something to say.

6:19He clearly has something to say and that was that he wants to fight for his place. So they are open to offers for him but the word from inside the club is they don't have to sell him and the same with those four players that you mentioned in the bomb squad. They don't have to sell them but obviously it would be really helpful if they did mainly to add more profit but also because you've got four players there. I know Armourin came out in his first presser in America and said he would welcome them back if they were still here on September the 1st. It's not really an ideal situation when you've got four players there who've supposedly said they want to leave and have been training on their own all summer and haven't been integrated into the group.

6:58There's a reason why they've been separated. So in an ideal world, yes, all four of them would leave whether the best thing's going to be on loan, whether it's a sale. In the ideal world, it would be a sale and Man United generate as much money as possible. But we know it's going to be difficult to get the money that they want, given all the buying clubs know that Manchester United want at slash need to sell them. Absolutely fascinating. We'll come back to those potential sales in a minute. And you mentioned being on their pre-season tour. I want to ask you a lot about that, Charlotte. But Gregor, this is a hell of a statement from Manchester United.

7:31They ended that season with us talking about, they can't seem to score goals they've gone out and spent£200 million on three forward players whatever we make of Manchester United's transfer dealings and you know the chaos that has surrounded the club off the pitch this is a big club making a big statement this summer isn't it? Yeah I mean it was it was much needed as he pointed to their 44 goals in 38 league games last season that was you know I think the worst in about 50 odd years for the club so that was the obvious starting point and they've got you know in Emblemo and Cunha they've got two players we know can cut it in the Premier League and in Cesc you have someone who's 22 who is a bit raw but is powerful leads the line, has been coveted for a few years now by some of the biggest clubs in Europe he's actually quite experienced too he's played like 250 games for club and country he's played in the Champions League it always seems that he's fit and available real athlete, so someone who will lead the line and that's a positive move as well.

8:33I just came to speak to Charlotte about what's next because everyone's talking about the next thing is they need a midfielder who can get around the pitch a bit more because that's a fairly clearing hole. I'm still not entirely sure about wing-backs. I've heard that Dorgoos had a pretty promising pre-season and I'm not entirely convinced at the back either. We said this at the end of last season, there's a lot to do at Manchester United. yes this is obviously the first first area to tackle and they've done it and I think they've done it pretty impressively but it will be interesting to see how much more business they can do because they need to do it in my view Charlotte Greg is still worried despite 200 million I think you hinted at it there I get what he's saying but do you agree with some of his worries but do you think United fans might get a few of those players Greg is talking about or might this be it I can totally understand I think if you watch them well last season even on pre-season in the last game against the first two games they actually played really well me thought oh are the is the tactics finally working as things starting to take into put to slot into place and then the game against Everton the sort of old habits crept back in defensively they didn't look as strong but to me I think it's they're screaming out for a number six I just think they need someone who can carry the ball they need some legs in midfield they just need some pace they need I know every team could do with a rogery but if they had that profile of player within the team, I really think it would elevate them.

10:01They've brought goals in in terms of we know that Kuna can score goals, we know that Mbwemo can score goals. I'm not saying that a number nine wasn't key, it definitely was. But I think just as important is bringing in a more defensive midfielder who can change the way that they play. With the wing-backs, I think Dorgou did look all right on tour. Obviously, it is only pre-season tour and everything you have to say is caveated by that. But I just think they're in a position where they would want to strengthen everywhere all over the pitch. If you look at the goalkeeper, in an ideal world, would they want an upgrade on Andrea Nana?

10:36Probably. But have you got the budget to go out and then buy a new goalkeeper, buy new wingbacks, buy a new centre-back, buy a new defensive midfielder and spend 200 million reinforcing your attack? I think they've looked at the biggest problem last season, which was the fact that they just did not score enough goals and they're looking to resolve that. And then they're going to look at the other pieces of the puzzle and it just comes down to how much Belieber has been mentioned. But then so has 90 million for him. Are they going to go out and spend 90 million on a fourth player and take their spending to nearly 300 million?

11:10To me, that seems unlikely. Obviously, nothing is being ruled out and the transfer window is crazy and we've still got over three weeks of it left. So anything could happen, but it just seems to be spending that level of money seems excessive when everything going into the window was. We've got money to spend, but we do have to be cautious as to how we do it. Really interesting. I want to hear more about the Manchester United tour. Tell us a little bit more. You mentioned calm as a catchphrase, which, as you say, not often associated with Manchester United. And you wrote a brilliant piece on the Times website detailing some of the findings from that tour.

11:48Tell us a little bit more about it, but mainly about this idea that Manchester United for once were calm. Yeah, so we actually had a sit down with Ruben Amarum and spoke to him about things that had changed. and he's instilled some rules, but not the sort of rules where it's like, you must be at breakfast for half past seven. He said he doesn't want to treat his players like babies. And I think the main part of it was before they went on pre-season tour, he sat them all down and said, you're my squad that I want for this season. You're the players that I want. You're the ones that are going to be involved the most.

12:21This is notwithstanding new signings coming in, obviously. And they've all bought into everything that he's got to say. He started a new leadership group, which has got Bruno Fernandes plus five others in it. So they're all supposed to be holding the other players to account. They all want, Amaran basically wants them to hold each other accountable for their actions rather than him having to get involved, like teacher kind of style. Who else is in that group, Charlotte? Oh, now you're testing my memory. Harry Maguire's in there, isn't he? Harry Maguire, Masraoui, Tom Heaton, Mdalo. So it is more the kind of senior players.

12:56it's not necessarily based on like, oh, you know, notoriety or things. As you say, with Tom Heaton being in there, it's about characters. Yeah, some of that is about how long, obviously longevity and that sort of stuff and the experience that they've got. But then Maz Rawi's not been there that long and Amram did bring him up when he was talking about it. He said he likes him as a character and that's why he's included him within the group. So they've got this six strong group and the whole atmosphere just felt different. like they weren't doing double sessions they were only doing one and then in the afternoon where they were staying there was like loads it was a really fancy street with loads of designer shops so you'd see them like pottering around the street together they organized a team meal didn't have to I think in the past there's been like little clicks so on days off or afternoons off you'd have players they'd all still do stuff together but they do stuff together in smaller groups whereas they were choosing to do stuff together as a whole squad we spoke to Luke Shaw he said it's the best camp that he's been on he's been at the club for 11 years so him to say that is quite telling and it just every single person he spoke to from the club I know them they've realized they're talking to journalists and they want a certain message putting out there but they were all saying the same thing in that it was very calm everyone was having a great time I think it helped they were in one place for a really long time as well their base was Chicago they flew out to New Jersey for one game but that was just like doing an away game and then they stopped in Atlanta on the way home whereas previously Mourinho's complained about it, Van Gaal wasn't happy about it, Christine Erickson I think complained about it last summer and the fact that they had to move around so often that it just really disrupted what they were trying to do so they had this main base everyone felt chilled out, everyone was buying into it, enjoying their time there and yeah I think to be honest it felt really positive as well I think he was you know it was a really interesting interview and you're sort of reminded that like the the sort of charisma he has and you know when he first arrived that was a thing that it was immediately kind of smacked you in the face and then obviously the football was kind of quickly went even further downhill and everyone was like who is this guy he's not you know a lot of people were thinking is he is he cut out for this I don't think it'd be much for that kind of profile it would take much for that kind of profile, his profile to change again because he is very, very, very, very persuasive in these interviews and he's asked about, I think he's very open as well, he's saying things like, it wasn't just I think he obviously asked a question about how we felt after defeat, after defeat and he kind of flipped the question and said no, I actually went into games fearing defeat you know, that's quite a remarkable thing for a manager of Manchester United to say, like I was going into games knowing that we were going to lose basically and even like when he was asked about the pressure and stuff and he's saying I remember pressure being when his career ended at 32 and he sat down with a spreadsheet with his wife to kind of plan out how much money they've got and what he had to do and you know he has got charisma, he's very good on that side of the game and I don't think it would take much for his kind of profile to change again sort of this season if Manchester United just show a bit of improvement and a bit more sort of evidence of understanding his system because the system has always been the big thing that it's been a stick to beat him with as well.

16:21We have to see, no matter what business they do, evidence of the system working, progress, and the players know what they're doing. Yeah, and in those first two games on tour, it seemed that that was happening. Iriola even said after they beat Bournemouth, He said they're one hell of a team. You would never have said that about Manchester United last year. But on the pitch, he's literally walked them through the tactics. So two days before the game, they'd have all the mannequins set out and he'd be walking them through what he expected from them. Then they'd do the same the next day and they'd just speed it up.

17:00And then the day after in the game, you'd see exactly what it was that they'd been working on. And they're able to take that into games, which obviously last season, we weren't seeing any of that. We weren't seeing evidence that they were practicing anything on the training pitch or being able to take it into the games. To be fair, they didn't have as much time to practice what he wanted. And he was trying to change the whole system midway through a campaign, which made it quite difficult. But I think it was Deleu told us he only wants them to do two to three things a game. So he's not trying to overload them with information.

17:32So I think the hope is that if he gets these basic things into them now, that throughout the season, they'll be able to pick up different things as well that he wants. And the biggest thing I can say about them after those first two games is that they played like a team. They knew where each other were or were supposed to be. They were connecting. They were playing a lot quicker. They were pressing like they should. The forwards looked like they had some description of relationship, especially that Everton game wasn't great. But Cunha, Mbwemo and Bruno Fernandes seemed to be clicking together quite well.

18:03And that was the first time that they played together in a game. So there were lots of positives to take, but from the Everton game, Prunifin came out and called the parts of the performance lazy. Just a reminder that it's obviously not all perfect and there still is a long way to go. You've both teased it, but this is the big question then. What is this season for Manchester United? What could we expect? I think listening to you and looking at it with the no European football, I think there's a good chance of a positive season for Manchester United. What positive is, I'm not quite sure, whether they need to qualify for Europe, whether they need to get up into that top six.

18:42But it feels like at least Ruben Amarim has got the foundations in place for what he wants to deliver, listening to you, Charlotte. What is a good season for Manchester United? Is it about, as I say, positivity? Is it about vibes and the camp and the squad and the club being more together? Or is there a reality check here where actually this is all nice and I'm glad you're all having meals together. but you need to get Champions League football. I think Champions League might be a step too far as an aspiration when you look at what the other teams have done and how they've strengthened and how far behind the Manchester United were.

19:19I think if you look at how bad last season was, Europe, any Europe is the aim. Obviously Europa League would be better than Conference League for them but yeah, the positive vibes won't stand for anything. They won't mean anything if they can't translate that into better performances on the pitch and pushing up the table. And Amram is going to be under pressure to deliver those results. And really quickly, they've got a difficult start as well. They play Arsenal, City and Chelsea in the first six games. So it's not going to be easy. But given how bad last season was, if he gets off to a bad start again and there's no indication that there's been any progress or anything like that, especially with all this money that's been spent as well, the pressure is going to be on him.

20:00But yeah, I think European football is the minimum aim for them this season. And then I suppose they hope they go on a cup run as well. Gregor, do you see that happening? Could you see a top seven, top eight finish for this Manchester United team? Absolutely, yeah. I mean, anything lower than that has got to be a disappointment. I think they should be aiming for the top six. I think not having European football is a big thing, particularly when Newcastle and Villa do. Charlotte's right as well. the amount of money being spent in the summer is pretty eye-watering and Liverpool have spent £270 million Arsenal £200 City £150 as well as on top of January Chelsea£250 there's still time to go in the window and Man U are starting at a far lower base so it's still going to be an uphill battle but I think they have to they have to be aiming for the top six Very interesting Manchester United fans if you've got views on what this season might hold for your club get in touch with me Tom Doclark at thetimes.co.uk.

21:03Let's move across the city to Manchester City. Then another club, as you say, Greg, are spending a lot of money, but doing so very early in the window with obviously that Club World Cup competition in mind. Tajani Renders, Ryan Aitnori, Marcus Bettinelli, Ryan Cherky, Sven Naipan and James Trafford in. Jan Kutog, Kevin De Bruyne, Scott Carson, Juma Bar has gone out on loan, Kyle Walker and Maximo Peron. Charlotte, as I say there, a lot of their business being done very, very early. James Trafford, the most recent signings. Do we think there'll be any more business for City in terms of players leaving or players coming in?

21:39I think players leaving, yes. Obviously, the big one at the minute is Jack Grealish. Where is he going to end up? Everton's obviously a possibility. It's not guaranteed that he'll end up there because I doubt that they're going to be able to afford his wages. So maybe that's one that's going to drag on until later in the window to see who else comes in for him and what the other viable options are. But it's clear that he needs to go and play his football somewhere else, especially if he has aspirations, which he does to get in the England squad for the World Cup. And you've got midfielders like James Bakatee.

22:12There's interest there from Nottingham Forest. I think we all expect him to go. So there's a few that we expect to leave. In terms of incomings, I remember after that spending spree at the start of the summer, I was like, surely you're done now. And it wasn't a no. I think ideally they want to bring in a right back and Liveramento's someone that they've liked for a long time but whether that's possible or not it doesn't seem to be at the minute but if you look at the money that they spent and the players, the profile of the players that they brought in in January and then the players that they brought in this summer I don't think it would be a disaster if we don't see any more incomings at Manchester City before the window closes they've done quite well good for themselves yeah they've done some very good business very interesting business City are a fascinating one for me I can't quite decide I feel like it could be a season of two different extremes either they're back to winning ways Pep Guardiola does Pep Manchester City 2.0 or 3.0 I'm not sure which version we're on now and actually challenges for the title or there's part of me that thinks it's just not there yet that actually this rebuild is a bit bigger the players they brought in will need more time and maybe maybe just maybe this might be even the last season we see of Pep Guardiola at Manchester City.

23:29Gregor, I'm going to come to you first because this is a theme we've discussed throughout last season and it's one that you changed your mind on. Where are you at on Manchester City and Pep Guardiola heading into this season at the moment? I share that conflict, Tom. I read Pep Guardiola gave an interview in GQ recently and just how exhausted he sounded and it was kind of really striking. and it was evident last season too you know you just kind of pan out for a minute he's been a manager for 17 years, he'll be a decade next year at City not many managers stay right at the top of the game for usually more than a decade at most and he's approaching two decades and it will happen although he's the greatest manager of all time really or certainly one of them there will come a point in time where his powers will wane and it's not as easy to pinpoint why that is sometimes it's about evolution of tactics more broadly sometimes it's just he's spoken about how whether you can have the same impact on a group of players all these things are going to be fascinating to watch this season because I'm with you it wouldn't be that surprising if City and Guardiola are back and if I challenge for the title I'll possibly win it it wouldn't be a huge shock but my gut tells me that I'm not sure he sees out the full two years of the contract that's just my gut instinct and it's going to be fascinating to watch because you kind of look at the recruitment they've done and it all looks great on paper and there's some players that we know really well and others like Cherokee who are really exciting Marmouche was the hit from January though there's not so much you just realise that you do have to have a lot of hits out of this expenditure for City to really be back challenging for the title because Liverpool have been such a such a force last season and they've gone again and Chelsea the same so I'm not entirely convinced that the recruitment they've done is all going to happen overnight there's so many players who are coming to a new league as well fascinating to watch I think it's not just a recruitment though is it?

25:56I think one of the main points is going to be having Rodri back I think that obviously made such a difference to them last season so bring him back in a fully fit Rodri I'm not saying he can win them a title single-handedly but he is that good that he changes the whole dynamic of how that team play so once you've got him back in with these new signings around him as well, yeah it's going to take them time to bed in, isn't it? And it's like when Haaland first got there and they were thinking, oh, how do we now service this guy who can score all these goals after we've been playing so long with the false nine or without a proper striker?

26:30So there are going to be times of adaptation, but I just think they are still at such a good level, aren't they? Even the last season was really bad for them in their terms. They finished third and they finished the season 10 games unbeaten. But it's not too bad, is it? If they can bring their best player back in and have some new additions, I think they'll push the others a lot closer this season. So you're in City are back camp, Charlotte, for want of, you know, you're more nuanced than that, but you're more in the camp. I mean, given we're writing headlines, I'm not going to say that. You might put that on the top of the podcast.

27:10Never. It'll come back to haunt me. Me and Neil would never do a thing like that. That is an outrageous accusation. But you are more in the camp that we might see one more final fling from Pep Guardiola and that it might be pretty successful. I just think it's Guardiola you can never, ever write him off. And yeah, he sounded tired, but I think the fact the last season would have hurt. For them, it was embarrassing. For him, it was embarrassing. The levels that they dropped to, which, like I said, the saying they've dropped levels is ridiculous. but I think he has still got something in him and maybe Greg is right maybe he doesn't see out two years there but that could depend on if they win the season if he turns his team around and they win big again this season maybe that's when he walks away and he's like do you know what I've done it now that I've mission completed I feel like I can walk away I don't think he would walk away with a team in transition I think he feels like he needs to get them back to that winning point again and the squad that they've got, the players that they've got, the quality they've got, the manager that they've got, there is no reason to think that he's not capable of doing that.

28:21Very interesting. We'll see what happens with Manchester City and United. Charlotte, Dunker and Paul Hurst will be keeping you up to date on their Times website. Gregor mentioned Liverpool and Chelsea there. They are two of the 11 clubs that we have already previewed in this series. If you're just coming to this podcast, just go back in your feed to find those two previous shows And next week, we've got Gregor and Martin Hardy discussing Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds and Burnley. But there's loads more still to come in this show. After the break, we'll be discussing Aston Villa, Nottingham Forest and Wolves.

28:52We'll see you in a sec.

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30:08Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. These are our Premier League club-by-club season preview shows. This is part three and we're about to dive in to talk about Nottingham Forest, Wolves and Aston Villa. I'm Tom Clark and I'm joined by Gregor Robertson and Charlotte Dunker. Charlotte, we're going to start with Forest, one of the stories of last season, of course. just run you through their summer business so far. Jar Cunha, Igor Jesus, Dan Undoy and Angus Gunn are for the four signings in. Out, we've got Anthony Alanga, Jonathan Panzo, Harry Toffolo, Ramon Sosa, Taylor Bindon has gone out on loan, Wayne Hennessy has been released, Danilo, Lewis O 'Brien and Matt Turner.

30:50One of the names not mentioned there is Morgan Gibbs-White staying at the club, signing a new contract after interest from Tottenham. obviously that was a huge bit of business for Forrest. Not huge signings been brought in there, unless you can tell me some of those players they're particularly excited by. Obviously got Conference League football at the moment, or is it Europa League football as we record? Who knows where that Crystal Palace court case will go. What can we expect from Forrest in the coming weeks when it comes to signing in and signing out? I think we can expect more signings for sure because they definitely haven't done enough.

31:25and Angus Gunn's upcoming as a backup goalkeeper so not to discredit him but if we take him out of the equation they've then signed three players so they've got a right winger, a centre-forward and a centre-back there is some excitement around the two Botafogo players so in terms of Igo Jesus and Giacuna and how they're going to fit in I think there's lots of potential there but the main thing is that they need more experienced players through the door as well if you look last season And Nuno, I think he had used the smallest amount of players. I think he only used 23 players. And they're going into European competition, whichever competition it is.

32:05They're going to need to be able to rotate. They're going to have to have a bigger squad. So I think I've been told they're looking around at least five more players coming in. Wow. Another winger, some fullbacks, central midfielder. so yeah out of all the teams that I cover I am expecting them to be the busiest before the window closes because they need well as much as anything need bodies but I think when you look at the players that they brought in and the fact this is the first time they're in Europe for 30 years they also need some experience as well because at the minute their squad hasn't got that So Traore is one, obviously, Nuno's worked with in the past.

32:45He's been linked with a move to Forest this summer. There's a few other players like Makati. Is that Adama Traore from Fulham? Yes. Sorry, yeah. And then Makati from Manchester City is someone that they've been speaking to City about. So there are conversations ongoing on players that they are interested in, but they're just going to need to get them over the line before the deadline because they do need they definitely need more signings Gregor would you agree with that your former club obviously a huge season ahead for them you would agree with Charlotte's assessment there about the number of players and the quality that needs to still come in yeah I mean the one thing to say is that Nuno kind of doesn't want a huge squad he never has and even when Wolves made it to Europa League quarter final I think it was it was the same story he kind of didn't do huge rotations he, you know, a lot of focus on sort of rest and recovery and that kind of thing so I think for us really they need to try and improve the start and the living and like, you know a lot of players have been brought in in the last couple of years who haven't done that I think that's the sort of diplomatic way to say it you know, a lot of waste and they have improved in terms of a bit more kind of focused recruitment.

34:11There are areas of the pitch that need to strengthen. They need a left back. I mean, Nico Williams was brilliant there last season but he's right footed and he's, you know, I think they definitely need someone there. They brought in Moreno from Villa and he didn't really play regularly on loans. That was last season. So they definitely need a left back. And I think, as I say, I think it's about probably another wide player. And Doi is a good signing. I've always been impressed with him when he's been for Switzerland. Quick. Very direct. But I think it's about trying to push and challenge. You know, you looked at Forest's team last season, you could name it.

34:54You could name the 11, possibly with a change in midfield. Maybe Ryan Yates or like Sangari or, you know, there was slightly different makeup in midfield, but you could name the starting XI I think they need to be pushed I think when Hudson-Odoi was out or when Wood was out or when Alango was out or when Gibbs-White was out the team suffered so they need to push and improve the starting XI and that's what Maranakis is going to do he's hugely ambitious it's an enormous boost to keep hold of Gibbs-White amid the interest from Spurs so that was hugely important because he's the fulcrum of the team he's the guy who connects defence and attack but for me I think it's about trying to push the start of the living because last season was like they overperformed I think trying to really push those players and not let them be complacent about having a place in the start of the living is the most important thing you're talking about quality there and depth from both of you then it should this you know double header with Europe having to contend with that and a desire to presumably hit the same heights in the league that's going to be a real challenge isn't it Charlotte should is there a worry for Forest fans that we're at this stage and we're talking about need for quality for depth and they've got an extra competition to compete in I don't think it's a worry I think there just needs to be a management of expectations I think excuse me when if you take Asimilla for example when Unai Emery went in there they were favourites to get relegated and he took them to Europe and then your expectations rise and then why shouldn't they you think right well we need to be competing in Europe every season we should be going they if they're in the conference league they should be thinking they can go and win it and the fan expectation then rises regardless of what how many players they've brought into the squad.

36:53So it's about tempering that expectation because then last season, Villa finishing sixth, missing out on Champions League, it's disappointing. But then if you look at it in the grand scheme of things as to where they've come from in the last few years and where they're at, was that really a terrible season for them? If you think of all the Champions League nights they had as well, probably not. So I think Forrest can look at, I'm not saying they should learn from Aston Villa, but I I think one season of being really good, the expectations rise so much. I think if they can be consistent in the league again and enjoy a good run in Europe, I think that would be a good season for them and their fans.

37:33Because if we go back to the start of last season, if we probably played back these podcasts, we were probably talking about them being in the mix for getting relegated. That's exactly what we did. No, we don't talk about that. That's exactly what we did, Charlotte. we did an entire predicted Premier League table and we had them 17th and that was even with having a former Nottingham Forest player on the show, we still put them in 17th I mean I've got to say, I'm not suggesting they'll finish 17th this season, I'm not doubling down, but I'm not listening to you both and thinking about the challenges ahead and you know, you've mentioned clubs like Aston Villa and Newcastle is another club that we've talked about the challenges of suddenly having European football I don't see this Forest squad as strong as either of those two squads when it came to those challenges.

38:17I just, I don't know whether, you said there, Charlotte, or if they could, you know, have a cup run, you know, enjoy themselves in Europe and maybe kind of get in the top half of the table. I think we could be talking bottom half of the table for Nottingham Forest here. Am I wrong, Gregor? Say yes. I think that that's entirely possible. I think that, I mean, the pre-season games have been interesting it's also worth pointing out they've scored one goal in six games 0-0 with Chesterfield 0-0 with Monaco lost 3-1 to Fulham 0-0 with Estoril lost 1-0 to Birmingham 0-0 with Fiorentina not many goals there like no Jesus I think Jesus is exciting you know he obviously was someone who made a big impact in the Club World Cup and it was possible that possibly you know Forrest were going to be gazumped there but he he's made the move to Forest that's an exciting signing but it is so hard to not only you know get into these to get into the European spots and then compete on both fronts but then to maintain that league form it's so hard it's so hard but you mentioned you mentioned goals there as well I mean is Chris Wood not the slight embodiment of what we're talking about here an amazing season last season but like you know 33 I don't see the Chris Wood trick happening again you know I'm not sticking him straight in my fantasy football team going Chris Wood's going to be banging in the goals again.

39:44He overperformed, didn't he? Absolutely. It was amazing. And this is not me digging out Nottingham Forest last season. It was an incredible achievement as much as they fell away at the end. I'm just saying, I'm worried this season. I think, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but there could be looking at 14th and maybe, you know, the Europa League or the Conference League, whichever it is, a bit of a run, some great nights at the city ground, but that might be as good as it gets for Nottingham Forest. I think the positive thing you could look at is the experience of Nuno. Like Gregor mentioned, he's been here with Wolves before and they weren't dragged into a relegation battle.

40:18So, I mean, the players might not have the experience, but the manager does and he knows how to get the best out to the best bits of business they've done this season, haven't been in this closed season, sorry, haven't been bringing players in. It was getting Nuno to sign a new deal and also somehow persuading Gibbs White to sign that new contract as well. so I think both of those as in Nuno and Gibbs White are going to be the key for them and I don't think we can write them off as a one hit wonder because they've got time to work on stuff and they are going to bring in new faces as well but I think the recruitment of these next batch of players that they decide to get in the next few weeks could be the key to that No way we should write them off I'm doubling down 17th again I'm doing it No I don't I mean like No me and Greg aren't writing them off we'll come back to you Tom at the end of the season and remind you of these comments if they keep hold if they keep hold of the two centre-halves and the goalkeeper that's a brilliant little trident as a foundation all I know was one of the best fullbacks in the league last season yeah all these people who have question marks about them maintaining these levels like Elliot Anderson was an outstanding signing I don't have any doubts about Gibbs White I don't think I think Callum Hudson-Odoi has found a home if he can stay fit like great player at the top end of the Premier League like challenging at the top end of the Premier League Ilang has a big loss that's why I say bring in another winger maybe as well as Ndoi and Jesus they need them to be successful they need whoever it is the way they play whoever it is leading the line they need them to be clinical and Woods was like ridiculously clinical for the first two thirds of the season so like I have no reason to say that they're going to fall off completely but they're facing enormous new challenges this season and that's just Do you both think they will be in the top half?

42:10Because I'm thinking like 12th and they'd be glad of it. I think top half. I think top half. Greg is going top half. Charlotte? Yeah, I think top half. You wavered though. I could tell when I said 12th, you were like 12th sounds good. I was thinking 10th. So that's top half. Top half it is Nottingham Forest fans. Get in touch. Tell me how wrong I am. Tom.clock at thetimes.co.uk. We're talking about Nuno Espirito Santo. We've talked about Wolves. let's talk about them now I said there'd be some ropey links on these club by club previews and so it has proved Charlotte I'll run through some of the ins and outs Fer Lopez has come in John Arias and David Moller-Wolf have come in as well Jorgen Strand-Larsen's permanent move being completed too Pablo Sarabia Matthias Cunha Craig Dawson Chem Campbell Ryan Aitnori Tommy Doyle Naisa Giga Chiquinho Nelson Samedo Joy Hodge Bastian Meopo Bubacar Traore and Goncalo Geddes.

43:07A load of those players I didn't even know belong to Wolves, but they've all left this summer. A strong finish to their season, really, as much as the table perhaps didn't suggest that, Charlotte. Are we got another club here that are hoping for a good summer and a bit few more signings? I think they definitely do still need signers. They need someone else who can help contribute with the goals. So another centre forward would help. That would put not only just push John Larson, but bring more goals into the team. They've lost Cunha and Aitnori and they contributed, I think it was, to 55 % of Wolves' Premier League goals last season.

43:44So when you lose that out of your team, you've really got to find somewhere else to get it from. They've signed two right wingers in Fairlopers and John Arias. So it'll be interesting to see how they fit in. But as I understand it, they're looking for another forward, a central midfielder to compete with, Andre and Giao Gomez but they did some really good business in the January window Adbidou and Maneci were really good and they were key to that run they went on towards the end of the season so there are foundations from that to build on I think the concern would be the players that left and have they been replaced yet and how does this obviously Vita Pereira's first full season in charge what does that look like how do they build on the good momentum that they picked up at the back end of last season.

44:36I think there's been a few unhappy fans within the fan base at pre-season. They've not had very many good results. I don't think they've won, actually. Not that that counts for anything. But yes, some new faces through the door might just change the feeling. And hopefully, they've got a difficult first game. They've got Man City at home. But a little baptism of fire to start the season off. No bad thing to test yourselves. as you say, losing to Girona and Lons in the last two pre-season games. Gregor, what do you make of Wolves going into this season? Yeah, I think Vitor Pereira is the main interest for me.

45:13I was looking at his 11th job since 2010 and only in Porto, where he spent two years in Shanghai, where he spent three years, has he been more than a year at a club. He's done an extremely itinerant career. like I'm not quite you know he did an outstanding job last season outstanding I think he's got a 48 % win record at Wolves which is brilliant and you know his impact was brilliant and he's got a very clear system very clear way of playing but he has lost a really important player in Cunha and it's going to be how these new signings land because John Arias 27 he's not played outside of South America Colombian white player Ferro Lopez has played seven La Liga started seven La Liga games came from Celta Vigo he's 21 they both look really promising but are they going to hit the ground running?

46:11I'm not sure and the left wing back as well David Moller-Wolf from Eze Dalton really good track record of producing talented young players but again it's a big step up

46:27it's very hard to place them there's been a bit going on in the background at Wolves as well over the summer they've appointed Domenico Tetti as Director of Professional Football and he previously worked with Pereira at Al-Shabaab and I think Pereira does seem to be starting to get a bit more influence over recruitment and you know that's not always been the case at Wolves there's always been you know George Mendes had a big influence it's not always been the manager's job but he seems to be getting a bit more influence at the club and he deserves that he's definitely back don't worry about that well yeah but yeah I mean clearly there's a you know be something like there as well I think but I just think his second season is going to be really interesting our first full season as Charlotte pointed out there it was you know he came in and made a big impact and there was a clear goal of survival and they tailed off a bit towards the end of the season but they were safe.

47:28They were safe early doors and there was a lot of good vibes, you know, points then pints. It doesn't last. It doesn't last. The reality returns. Well, yeah, I was going to say, I'm looking at and listening to you guys and yes, you know, he did really well but they've lost their best player in Cunha, probably their second best or most consistent player in Ike Norrie. Certainly, everyone stuck him in into their fantasy football teams because he was always quite reliable but I mean, they finished 16th. Gregor, on recent shows, we talked about other clubs that finished higher than 16th, having had difficult summers.

47:59Are we not looking at these teams that have come up, Sunderland and Leeds and Burnley, are thinking, how can we book the trend? Are they not going to be looking at Wolves and thinking, well, they've lost two of their best players. They can be in the conversation for relegation. Yeah, I mean, if the bottom three or the promoter trio last season weren't so bad, Wolves would have been dead and buried, really, when he came in. and you know I also look around at the Premier League you know look at the Premier League table and I think if there are any it's going to be hard again we've discussed this many times for the promoted trio but if you're looking around it it seems to be drawn in Wolves are one of them undoubtedly so yeah I'm not as bullish as some people about Pereira's you know he had a huge impact but I think part of that was the circumstance and when that all you know you have a pre-season and a new season begins and everyone's strengthened around you Wolves have been chronically under-invested in for a number of years and that's because they had to comply with profit and sustainability regulations now they've lost two more of their best players and they have to sign well they have to recruit well or they're going to be down there again Yeah I think they're relegation candidates without signing Charlotte final word from you on Wolves Yeah I think well I think their fans would love a season where they're not dragged into the relegation conversation, but the way you've laid it out there wouldn't surprise me if they're in and around the scrap.

49:26I think they're good enough to not get fully dragged down as the bottom of it. One of the main points about Cunha was when he was suspended for all those games last season, they actually played better as a team, I think, because he was such the star man. When he's there, they were obviously, for obvious reasons, looking to pass him the ball all the time and he was involved in all the play, Whereas as a unit and as a team, they actually played a lot better when he wasn't there. So they have proven and shown last season that they can. I think they won three and drew one when he was suspended. So they've proven that they can pick up results when he's not there.

50:03But it's just how do they build on what Pereira did last season and become a better unit. And I do think they still need some new signings. But saying that, I do think that Jao Gomez, the midfield is a key for them. And I think they went slightly under the radar last season. They played really well, Jao Gomez and Andre as well. So they've got potential there. But I think just given what's happened in the last few seasons, it wouldn't surprise me if they are in and amongst the relegation chatter. But I think they're good enough to stay up. New signings needed. And speaking of new signings, let's end with arguably the most fascinating club going into this Premier League season for me.

50:43Aston Villa Charlotte I'll run through their transfer business or lack of Yassin Oskan and Marco Bizot are the two players who've come in so far some recognised names going out and some players on loan including Robin Olsen Courtney House Philippe Coutinho completing a move to Vasco da Gama Enzo Baraneca out on loan Philippe Martial and then Oskan has gone back out on loan as well so one of those two players who's come in has then gone back out on loan this is not what we're expecting from Aston Villa given the last couple of seasons, nights in the Champions League, brilliant performances, Unai Emery, what a great manager.

51:19What's going on? They have just announced while we've been on this podcast that they've signed Evan Guzand. So they have got someone else through the door, luckily for them. He's a striker, right? Yeah, cost him about 30 million, come from Nice. He was their player of the season last season. So he scored 12 goals in League One. So that's definitely going to help because at the minute, the only centre forward they've got is Oli Watkins. And clearly there's interest from other Premier League clubs from him. But Villa's very clear on their stance in that he is not for sale. So they do need, when you look at their incomings, obviously, it's just a backup goalkeeper at the moment.

52:03And Gesante, we've just mentioned. So they do need reinforcements. But I think possibly one of the key things is keeping the group together as well, because there's been interest in Morgan Rodgers. He's obviously a really good player. Watkins, John McGinn, we heard there was a bid put in from Newcastle yesterday. Jory Tielemans has been interested in him he was their player of the season last season Will Emi Martin is staying or go and I think if they can keep the core of their group together the group that's been so successful over the last couple of seasons I think that is going to be key for them as well and so far they're managing to do that but in terms of what they would want at the beginning of the window I was told that they wanted a right back slash right sided defender because Emery likes those versatile defenders that can play anywhere across the back line.

52:56Another striker, which they've obviously brought in and a right-sided attacker because he's still expecting someone like Leon Bailey to probably leave the club this summer as well. So they do really need to spend, but they're treading a really fine line when it comes to their finances, especially when it comes to the UEFA rules as well. They've already been fined by UEFA nine and a half million. so I think one big sale would need to come and that hasn't happened yet. Who could that be? Could that be Morgan Rodgers do you think? Because that would be a big sale wouldn't it or is Watkins more likely?

53:30To be honest I was thinking someone more like Ernie Martinez he switched agents at the back end of last season he had that bizarre moment on the pitch when he was crying on the final home game of the season and everyone was like, why is he crying? Is he leaving? And then you speak to people at the club and they were like, well, there's not been an offer from him from anywhere. So we've got no idea if he's going. And obviously he's still there at the moment. So maybe he's one that could leave. Leon Bailey keeps being linked with a move to Saudi. So that wouldn't be a surprise. And if he goes to Saudi, they could get some money from him.

54:10Buendia, I think Buendia's had an all right preseason, but he's not one of Emery's favourite players. They could get some money for him. But the big players in terms of the ones they could generate the most cash for, like Rodgers, Watkins, they're the players when you speak to people, they're just not for sale is what they say. Obviously, every player is for sale for a price. If someone came and offered something stupid for Ollie Watkins, like over 100 million, they're not going to turn it down, Ollie. It's a business. But if you look at the dynamic of that team, they need Watkins so why it would have to be a really good offer to let him leave and that's why I understand what their stance is that he's not for sale so they they need to improve from last season no top team in the top half scored fewer goals from them and that defensive solidity that we'd seen in the first two seasons under Emery disappeared at times as well they need to improve with their record away from home they were really good at Millapart but away from home I think they've been blossoming like nine times, which if they want to be in the Champions League, which they do, that's something they turn around.

55:19But then they could have ended up in the Champions League if they didn't have that really poor performance on the final day of the season. And obviously the refereeing decisions didn't help them with that either. So I don't know, they're an interesting one because like you say, we all expected them to have, we were told there was money. I don't think that anyone didn't think they wouldn't spend. and I know they've just spent 30 million on a forward but I think we thought they would have done more than what they have done. Gregor, what do you make of that? And try not to talk exclusively about the future of John McGinn.

55:49I know he was mentioned in a big part of your life. Understandable, he's, you know, highly coveted. Who wouldn't want John McGinn? Absolutely. But am I right to be a little bit inquisitive and worried about Villa this season? Yeah, I mean, it's the same sort of conversation about how hard it is to break in and sustain it and build when you're trying to get into the Champions League places, I know they fell just short agonisingly short last season and then it's a different sort of wage to turnover ratio in UEFA they've got to get down to 70 % and that's a challenge another challenge to add on top of that yeah I think they've been quite smart let's be honest about it They had some imaginative sales and purchases last summer, getting rid of Douglas Luiz.

56:45And then I wonder whether someone like Jacob Ramsey, they would be loathe to sell him, but he'd be pure profit in accounting terms. They are going to probably have to move people on before they can spend big.

57:03But they have assembled a really strong squad, I think. I think they've made some smart signings last January as well. Daniel Mallon coming in. Rashford is only on loan. But I think they've operated quite shrewdly given all the restrictions hovering over them. And I think it could be another one where you go down towards the end of the month and a few players have moved on and they might make another signing. It might be if they line someone up to replace Watkins that they allow Watkins to go because... How on earth are we not lining up an emotional homecoming for Jack Grealish, by the way? Like, you know, last season they took a play...

57:46The money. The money. The money. Would have stopped it, wouldn't it? Not even a little deadline day loan move to Aston Villa. Possibly, which is why the Everton thing, I don't think he's going to get done like anytime soon because if we talk hypothetically, if he's on around 300 grand a week, Villa aren't going to pay them those level of wages for, well, they need to get the squad cross ratio down anyway. But Everton aren't going to either. So if City are in a position where it gets to the end of the window and they're having to negotiate with clubs to take Grealish on loan and they're going to partially pay his wages, then maybe that is a conversation Villa can get involved in because why wouldn't they?

58:32But then at this moment in time, that's not an option that's on the table. So if you're not going to try and sign a player who's on 300 grand a week when you've just been fined by UEFA for breaching regulations to do how many wages your players are on, and they've really got to reduce their wage bill, they know they've got to do that. So bringing someone in on such an obscene wage just wouldn't make any sense. So I think, I don't think, never say never, but I just think that until things, I think it's a later on down the window in the window thing when City are having to haggle and negotiate with clubs just to try and get part of his wages paid.

59:16would be but Gregor mentioning Marlon as well is an interesting one because we haven't really seen much of him because they brought in Asensio on Rashford and they were favoured to him really in the last few months of the season so he should feel like a new signing for them I think again you pan out this is a squad that made the Champions League quarterfinal that came within a whisker of making despite all the challenges we've just spoken about for a number of clubs of getting into the Champions League in successive seasons they came so close to it and I actually think their depth after the additions in January their depth was brilliant going forward in particular and a lot of the players we're talking about who aren't going to be guaranteed starters like Malin like possibly Buendia if he's fit like Ramsey who doesn't always seem to manage to hold down like Barkley when you're playing against a bottom half team in the Premier League and you've got to rotate they're good players to be bringing in I think they've assembled a really good squad I think I put them in the same bracket as Forrest.

1:00:18They need to be making signings to take them forward onto the next step. The impact of starting a living, that's what their focus has to be. But it's tough for them with the spending restrictions they have. But you look at the table though, and we're talking about Aston Villa and the demands, both from the hierarchy and the fans and the expectations, those great Champions League nights. They want Champions League football. Dare I say they need Champions League football, but it's a great squad, I agree, if they keep it together, but they're not breaking into that top four Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester City or Chelsea.

1:00:48So are we looking at win the Europa League, Unai, do it again as a way of into the Champions League? What do we think? Because I'm looking at them thinking six, we're talking about Manchester United, maybe Tottenham under Thomas Frank, getting back in that conversation. Newcastle might be there, depending on whether they can keep hold of Alexander Izak. It's going to be tough to get into that top six, top eight places. Are they better off taking seventh and winning the Europa League, guys? how do they get Champions League football? I don't think we can just write them off because there's not been anything there's not been a massive decline in them I'm not writing them off I'm just saying I don't think they can get I don't see them getting top four so how do they get Champions League football?

1:01:28They finished three points playing Chelsea and we went into the final day not knowing what that make-up was going to be it was on such fine margins and that was after making it to the Champions League quarterfinal you know, bloody in the noses of the eventual winners PSG I do think we do need to pan out and think this club under Emery has taken enormous strides and they're battling to stay in the mix for competing with the top four actually, not just the top six Can they finish in the top four then? I don't see why not I think they need to improve to do that because for the same reason I've just said you look at the top four and how much money they've spent both Newcastle and Villa I've had sort of more challenging sort of you know under the radar summers so far there's still time to go but you look around this is the thing this is what makes it so hard the kind of established elite always go again they've got bigger resources and that's why it's so hard to keep up with them or break in and stay there Three preview shows done and the season is already set up to be a very enticing and exciting and unpredictable one.

1:02:41We hope you're enjoying these pre-season preview shows. Do get in touch with me, tom.clark at thetimes.co.uk with any questions or queries. Guys, we'll leave it there for now. Charlotte Dunker and Gregor Robertson, thank you very much for joining me. As I say, we've got part four, the final show to come early next week. I'm Gregor Robertson and Martin Hardy chat about Sunderland, Newcastle, Leeds and Burnley. We'll see you then.