PREMIER LEAGUE TEAM BY TEAM SPECIALS: Part Two

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1:46Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. This is part two of our Club by Club Premier League preview shows, taking you round the country, talking to Times reporters about teams on their patch. On today's show, we'll be covering Liverpool, Everton, Chelsea, Bournemouth and Fulham. And joining me, Tom Clark, we've got a show of two halves. Later on, we'll hear from the football reporter, Pete Rutzler. But first, we are joined by the Northern Football Correspondent for the Times, Paul Joyce. Joycey, good morning. Morning. How are we doing? Good, good, good. Ready to get stuck in.

2:20Ready to start. Ready to get stuck in. Let's start with the champions then. Now, listeners are going to keep the same format that we did for part one. So let's whiz through Liverpool's very busy summer of transfer dealings so far. Just to recap you, we've had Florian Vert sign Jeremy Frimpong, Arman Pesci, Milos Kerkhez, Freddie Woodman and Hugo Eketike. Out, we've seen Trent Alexander-Arnold. We've got Kelleher, Jaros, Nathaniel Phillips. Harvey Davis has gone out on loan. Gerald Kwanza has left as well, Luis Diaz and Tyler Morton. Paul, that's obviously a very busy summer of transfer dealings already for the champions.

2:57But the big question, of course, all fans are asking is what, if anything, might happen next? Well, I think there's certainly going to be a push to bring a defender in. They have been looking at a young Italian centre-back, Giovanni Leone, who plays for Parma. He's only 18 and Liverpool have, over recent seasons, tried to make a point of recruiting an up-and-coming centre-back with so far very little success. Right. If you go back three summers, they tried for Levi Colwell. He was at Chelsea and that proved a no-go. Two years ago, they were in for Lenny Oro, but couldn't guarantee playing time.

3:37And he went to Manchester United. Dean Huyzen at Bournemouth was a big target this summer, but obviously they got trumped by Real Madrid and it feels like a similar situation could be unfolding with Leone in that he's 18 he was managed by Christian Chivu at Parma last season Chivu's just taken over Inter Milan this summer and I think there's a feeling now that because the the 18 year old wants to play at that age staying in Italy carries in the peel as well that that Inter are favourites for that deal at the moment so that would leave Liverpool you know Liverpool are short on centre-backs that was seen on Monday in the friendly against athletic Bilbao they only had one recognised centre-back because of illness to Van Dijk and injury to Gomez right and that was Ibrahima Canata who's in the final year of his contract and Real Madrid's sort of shadow is looming on that situation.

4:37The other one to probably watch is Mark Gway at Crystal Palace. There's a definite interest in him. A lot will depend on Palace's asking price, even if they're willing to sell towards the end of the window. He's probably a£50 million player for Palace, even with a year to go on his deal. Liverpool wouldn't value him at that price. I think it would need to be probably considerably lower than that for them to move now. The only caveat is there is, as I said, a need to get a centre-back in. So I think that's a situation worth watching. And then we've got the saga with Alexander Isak and what happens with him and whether Newcastle are able to sign one or two replacements and whether they then are willing to sanction his departure and again at what price.

5:28Yeah, very interesting. And you've obviously, you mentioned the admiration for Isaac in a brilliant piece you did towards the end of last season and have then reported on the transfer since then. The most recent one of those being that Liverpool were kind of staying firm at the last bid that they made. Interesting to hear you there talk about both Isaac and the centre-back situation. Liverpool, obviously, fantastic businessmen in the transfer window. do you sense that I'm kind of getting a sense from you that they will hold firm on both a centre-back and the Izak deal and it'll only be right for them they won't be forced their hand won't be forced in either scenario would that be fair to say?

6:06Yeah I think that's the way that these tended to do the business and it's been successful for them I mean if you go back 12 months they didn't do anything other than Federico Kez who set up the deal for Marmadash Philly to come in this summer and it was very much the case of well if the players aren't available we're not just going to buy players for the sake of it which I think is a mistake that other clubs have made and by holding firm and doing with that stance and adhering to that strategy you then have the money to do what they've done this summer which is obviously at the moment £295 million spending which is a lot by Liverpool standards Although I would say that is going to be offset by a lot of sales.

6:56If Nunes goes to Al-Hilal for 46 million, which I expected him to get permission to do his medical today, that would bring sales up to about 190 million. And you have to look at the two columns together, not just in isolation. I would say there's further possibility of players leaving in terms of Harvey Elliott. There's a bit of interest from RB Leipzig. Probably a little bit surprised that there's not been more from the Premier League that may be to do with how Liverpool are pricing him. That's meant to be around£40 million. But I would say that other than the sort of maybe Liverpool's Arsenal's, Manchester United, Man City did a lot of stuff early.

7:41It does feel like a lot of the clubs in the top flight haven't really done too much yet. So maybe that will heat up in the last few weeks. Chiesa could go as well. That would leave Liverpool probably a number of attackers down from last season. You add in the unimaginable loss of Diego Jota, and I can see why people are saying there may be a little bit light in attack. I've got to say it didn't feel like that when it was at the Athletic Bilbao game on Monday. the sort of fluidity that they played with, the rotation of different players. You have worked in between Salah and Eketike at one point, Gapko dropping a bit deeper.

8:26Frimpong was almost a right winger at some points with Salah cutting inside. Obviously, it only takes a couple of injuries and Liverpool will want to go deep into the Champions League this season. I think the fact that Slott has referenced that PSG game so often since it took place shows a sort of appetite to make greater inroads in that competition this time. So there will be a lot of games to be played this season. Have they got enough striking options? I can see why people will say maybe not. But I don't think that would then lead them to go into ISAC at any price. I just don't think that's how Liverpool work.

9:09I think the emphasis still has to come from Newcastle. I personally said in this or mentioned in the sort of transfer roundup that's in the paper today that at some point in my view the risk of trying to integrate Isak back into the Newcastle squad is surely less than Newcastle going out and buying somebody who is effectively sixth choice and spending 50, 60 million pounds on that obviously I'm not privy to the sort of the atmosphere around Isak, but for a club that's gone from Liam De Lack to Joe Pedro to Eketike to Sesco to Kunyur Mbwemo to now be looking further down the line. If that was Liverpool, Liverpool would and did in the case of Philippe Coutinho say, no, it's too late in the transfer window now.

10:07We can't do what we want to do to the best of our abilities. you're not moving in this window. They then used six months to sort themselves out, get the ducks in a row, and then the first week in January, Coutinho went and they brought in Van Dyke. The Van Dyke situation was more complex because they wanted to sign him in May and then fell foul of Southampton claiming the illegal approaches and stuff like that. So it was a little bit more complicated, but I just think that Liverpool are the model club at the moment in terms of how they're run. Newcastle are, in the absence of a sporting director, which is remarkable in this day and age, are doing things on the hoof and I think that shows in the two clubs and how they've gone about the business so far this summer.

11:02Yeah, absolutely fascinating insight as ever from Paul Joyce. Make sure you're keeping up to date with all his latest transfer news on the Times website, on the Times socials as well. You mentioned Newcastle's situation. We'll be hearing from Martin Hardy on the Newcastle position early next week. So make sure you stay tuned for that. Paul, you talk a lot about the players coming in there. There's one player that you touched on pre-season there that's captured the imagination of a lot of Liverpool fans. 16-year-old Riho Numoha, an attacking player. He's made his name for himself in this summer.

11:34I want to come back to talk about some of those new players and how they might be integrated and how this new look Liverpool might look. But just in the sense of him being a new player, I know he's not a new signing, just tell us a little bit more about him. And obviously there'll be a lot of Liverpool fans listening to this, all fans of clubs when there's a young player coming through, going, play him, play him, everything like that. What do you expect from him? And what have you seen from him having watched him a couple of times? Well, he came from Chelsea at the start of last season. There was a big fallout because Chelsea recognised him as a potential star.

12:05John Terry posted on social media. He is and will be a top player, so it's very much the emphasis was on the present. He made his debut against Accrington in a FA Cup game, went back to play with the 21s at the end of last season because he's not 17 until the end of the month, I think. Yeah, end of August he turned 17. Yeah, end of August, yeah. I think they worked on his finishing quite hard. The former Liverpool under-21s coach Barry Lutis did a lot of sort of work on his end product because I think they felt very talented in one-on-ones situations, but it needed to be translated into benefits for the team.

12:54And I think the fact that he's sort of shone in pre-season shows that he's taken that out on board. Very quick, very tricky, but there has been a couple of goals as well, two or three goals in pre-season. He scored one against Athletic Bilbao on Monday where he basically picked the ball up and just inside the Athletic half ran on checks and just casually sort of found the corner of the net. I think he will be earmarked for sort of bits off the bench in the first instance. And I think that's realistic with the options that Liverpool do have in the squad. You know, Carabao Cup games would be an obvious sort of route for him.

13:39But it was interesting yesterday, there was a report came out in, I think it was Le Keep, about Bradley Barkler, the PSG player, and that Liverpool were interested in him and it would take£100 million to bring him in. And when we were checking out those stories, they were very much downplayed by Liverpool. And one of the reasons was because they want to keep the pathway open for Rio, which I thought was quite a statement, really, in terms of... Listen, everybody has to keep this in context and not get too carried away. But the reason why he came to Liverpool was because he probably thought that the pathway was blocked to Chelsea.

14:28if you look at all the wingers that they've signed there and young wingers as well. The attraction for Liverpool was that there was a pathway and I just thought that was quite revealing that they even introduced Rio's name into that conversation when the links came out about Barclay. So he's obviously sundew the rate highly. I think Arna Slott showed last season that he's capable of improving players or some players. And yeah, I think his progress is one to watch. I don't think we'll finish the season with him playing 50 appearances, but yeah, I think he could be a useful asset for Liverpool at times.

15:12Yeah, fascinating, hugely exciting player. Let's just wrap up Liverpool with two points I want to mention. You talked about some of those signings coming in. Will we see a new look Liverpool? You know, they've got new full backs, No Trent Alexander-Arnold, of course, who was so integral to the way that they play. Florian Verts is a fascinating talent going forward, can play across the front line, as can Hugo Eketike. Regardless of whether they make more signings, this is a much-changed champion starting XI, isn't it, that we're going to see at the start of this season? Yeah, I think so. I think we did an article towards the end of last season.

15:49We discussed it and it was about how this was basically going to be a title that was won by a team in transition, which is obviously the opposite to what not, to how it normally happens, that the champions win the trophy and then there's maybe one or two tweaks, but we're not seeing that with Liverpool this summer. We're seeing a pretty unprecedented, I would say, sort of situation. And there's risks that come attached with that in terms of, you know, bedding in all the players at the same time. I see pre-season was horribly sort of disrupted at the start by the loss of Jota. You know, that shouldn't be forgotten either.

16:29But the absence of tournaments means that Slott has had his players together more than he did last season. And I think you could see in the game, certainly on Monday that I saw, I obviously wasn't in the Far East. But I think you could see some of the combinations already evident. I think it's, as I said earlier, sort of fluidity of how they're all going to line up was really interesting. And in the second of the games, it was a much stronger Liverpool line-up. So the front six was basically Sir Bozli, Gravenbirch, Salah, Gapko, Ekotike, Vert. Within that, you've not got McAllister, Curtis Jones.

17:17it feels like they've got a few options and I just think it will be interesting I think Slott will rotate a lot more this season I think he didn't do last season because he didn't fully trust the players he basically won the league with 14 players but that week where they did suffer the loss to PSG on penalties and the loss to Newcastle in the Carabao Cup final I think that left an impression on him in terms of we were in a good moment then. We were a little bit feeling the pace of the season at that time. The intensity of the French League just isn't the same. So PSG can get away with maybe playing at higher intensity or matching English club's intensity in the Champions League because they don't do it every week in League One.

18:06I think Newcastle were just probably more motivated on the day in the Canabou Cup final because it was 70 years and this great milestone, landmark. But I do think Swat thinks that if he'd have rotated more, maybe they could have come through that week in better shape. So I think he will rotate more. I think we'll see more. Yeah, I mean, what you said there about where Verts plays, I think that's going to be the interesting thing because he basically had freedom to do what he wanted from an attacking point of view on Monday. And when he wasn't in possession of the ball, what was really noticeable was his desire to get into the penalty area.

18:47So I think he's going to be somebody who is a real attacking threat. But on the flip side of that, he was also dropping deep and he works hard off the ball. So I think, yeah, I know I was impressed with sort of the impression Ekotike made as well. I think there will be variations in Liverpool, how Liverpool play this season. Yeah, absolutely fascinating. and I can't wait to see how they line up in the early weeks of the season. Let's just finish Liverpool with Arnie Slott. I mean, absolutely incredible achievement last season to come in, take over from Jurgen Klopp and win that title, as you say, with a team in transition.

19:24This summer, he's had to navigate lots of changes to his squad and obviously, as you mentioned, the tragic loss of Diogo Jota. You talked there twice now about the scars, if you like, of the Champions League defeat against PSG. That to me suggests a manager at this incredibly high level who is just relentless and ruthless in his pursuit of success. You know, he's not resting on his laurels. He's not thinking, hey, I've come in and won the Premier League. But this will be a different type of test, won't it, for him? Because he's going into this season with Liverpool as favourites for a lot of people, particularly with some of the business that they've done.

20:03And as you say, with an expectation and a desire to do well in the Champions League and other cup competitions. How do you think he'll navigate that? Obviously, you'll be hearing from him in a press conference on Friday that you'll be covering for The Times, so make sure, listeners, you check out that. But just a final word from you on Arna Slott as Liverpool manager going into his second season and some of the challenges that he might face. I think in a lot of ways he'll be embracing it. I mean, the PSG references, because he's referenced it a lot, which I found interesting, really. He said that was the best game he's ever been involved in as a manager, which...

20:44And if you do go back to that night, I mean, I think Liverpool had a couple of chances from Salah in the first 15 minutes. And if they've got those having won their first leg in obviously strange circumstances, 1-0, I do think Liverpool, with Anfield right on it, I think Liverpool would have taken... would have been hard to shift by PSG in that tie if they'd have taken those opportunities early on. So the margins are very fine. I think he will think that there's an opportunity to sort of kick on now. I'm a little bit, not against the Diaz signing, but I just think Diaz had done well. Sorry, the Diaz sale.

21:32But I just thought Diaz did well for Liverpool. last season. I'm not really sure in my own mind why the contract situation couldn't really get resolved with him. It obviously came down to finance and there was a big disparity between what he wanted and what the club was prepared to offer somebody who's 29 in January. I think Slott will believe he's got a better squad than he had last season, more options than he had last season. And if you look at the amount of times that he sort of influenced the game for Liverpool with like a tweak or a substitution, then I think he will feel probably a bit emboldened by the hand that he has now compared to last season.

22:22But as you rightly say, there will be challenges within that. The target is on Liverpool's back now. They've not won back-to-back titles since 82, 83, 83, 84. So it's a long time. Slott didn't win back-to-back titles with Feyenoord. Yeah, I'm interested to see how they sort of cope this season with that increased expectation because, as you said, They've not probably been favourites for a title since 1990-91. Absolutely fascinating to see what happens with the champions this season. Let's move across the city to another team under a lot of pressure, I would say, perhaps with a new era starting with a new stadium, Everton.

23:07They finished the season with David Moyes with a farewell to Goodison, but it's not been necessarily the summer that perhaps most fans would want. Let me just, as I say, recap some of their dealings. I'm going to start with the outs first, Neil Mopé moving to Marseille, and then a big list of fairly experienced players, all leaving the club. Adulé de Coré, Ashley Young, Asmiv Begovic, Mason Holgate, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, and then also Billy Creelan and João Virginia have gone as well. Carlos Alcarez has come in, Mark Travers, Tierno Barry, Adam Asnow and Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall. Lots of some experienced players left there, Paul, and some signings come in.

23:47I mentioned there Kiernan Dewsbury Hall just at the end there he was a player and a move that you teed up in a piece that you wrote for the Times over the weekend in that same piece you also mentioned the interest and moves that they have made for Southampton youngster Tyler Dibbling and in that piece you also mentioned an interest in Jack Grealish just give the listeners a sense of what might happen with Everton in the rest of the summer window well I think the sort of the immediate priority is being or is to recruit a right winger and that's been one of the targets all summer and they've had a bit of frustration in that they originally went for Francesco Conceição at Porto he finished last season at Juventus on loan and he basically wanted to go back to Juventus permanently and that's what's transpired now the fact that that didn't prevent Everton from sort of trying to bring him to the Premier League sort of reflects a policy this summer in that they're trying to be as ambitious as they can while operating on a sort of budget which allows them to spend probably£35 million on a winger.

25:01If they go above that, they probably don't have the money to go above that because, as you outlined with all the outgoings, outgoings they need to still do quite a lot to the squad but if they if in addition if they were to target a prior group of players above that sort of value then most of those players would want European football and that's one thing that Everton can't offer them this this season and I think that has been a bit of an issue especially as nine Premier League clubs can the Dibbling one is interesting because they have sort of tried to push the boat out for him. My understanding is that they've recognized as long ago as last weekend that that was going to be a very difficult deal to do.

25:46There was a bid that went in initially for 27 million, 27 million pounds with some add-ons, then 35 million. And then last Monday, there was a bid of, or the Monday of this week, there was a bid of around 40 million plus a sell-on close but the two clubs are far apart on their valuations Southampton countered with a deal which would be in excess of well in excess of 50 when the when a complicated sell-on deal was was factored in as well and I mean well in excess of 50 so you know the Dibbling one despite some of the noise I think Everton feel like it's going to have to take Southampton to really climb down on that now for that to get done and I think they will be looking elsewhere which which isn't ideal and maybe that's where the Grealish thing Grealish interest comes in what was surprising about this one yesterday was there wasn't it was presented as though Everton have contacted Manchester City on Wednesday.

26:52That wasn't the case. There wasn't contact between the clubs on Wednesday. There had been contact previously and Everton know the situation with Grealish in terms of Man City are looking for as much wage recoupment as possible. Everton would believe that the deal would be about£12 million to take him on loan for a single season. The numbers don't necessarily put them off, but there's other factors that need to be put into that. Namely, does Grealish want to go to Everton? Yeah. And that's not certain. You know, was, were these latest stories, you know, to sort of flush out what, what is to try and flush out what might else, what else might be there for him.

27:38There were 10 days before the start of the season and he's not got a club in a year that, you know, he's said to be wanting to go to the World Cup with England. So he really needs to get his situation sorted out. There's also the fact that he isn't necessarily, he hadn't necessarily been what Everton needed when they were trying to do dibbling. Obviously he plays on the left and Everton have got Ndi on the left now and they've had Dwight McNeil as maybe a number 10. They could move Dwight McNeil onto the right, use Grealish as a number 10 if, as seems likely, Dibbling isn't resurrected. So I think the Grealish situation was always going to be one that would come late in the window, and I still think that would be the case.

28:30But there's a lot, I would say, there are a lot of hurdles to overcoming that one if that is to come off for Everton. And then it's basically they need another midfielder, maybe a right back. David Moyes has said that he wanted sort of eight signings, eight to 10 signings. They've got five in now, but that includes a backup goalkeeper and a 18-year-old left back who came in from Bayern Munich in Adam Asnu who would initially only challenge Vitale Mikelenko at left back. He's not come in to start the season, so to speak. So I think there's still a bit of work for Everton to do. I think, you know, it's such a new sort of era for them with the move into the new stadium.

29:20The final test event for that is on Saturday when they play Roma, which is the other team in the freaking groups or one of the other teams in the freaking groups umbrella of clubs. so yeah Everton sort of stand on the brink of this new era but I think from Moyes' perspective he's desperate to get a team that the fans can sing about together and there is still a bit of work that needs to be done on that between now and the end of the window. Lots of work to do you summed it up quite nicely there I'm going to ask the final question which is quite a big broad question but I think you slightly summed it up nicely there with that line about Moyes wanting a team that the fans can sing about in this beautiful new stadium.

30:04But more specifically, what do you think for David Moyes and for Everton success would look like this season? Is it that, that getting a team that they can be proud of and that maybe it doesn't quite matter as much where they finish? Of course, it always matters, Tom. That's a stupid thing to say. But, you know, what do you think success looks like for Everton? Is it about growth? Is it about moving up the table? Do they want cup competition priority? Do they want Europe? What is the priority, do you think, for Everton? What does success look like? I think a little bit of everything that you said there, really.

30:37I mean, Europe is a big statement at this stage of the season when we look at where the squad is, but they'll want to push on from last season. They played very well under Moyes in the second half of the season, and he will again. And I think he, when I look at the signs they've made so far, I don't see anybody who is a surefire thing. I think the best asset Everton still have is David Moyes in terms of driving standards and pushing the players and demanding more from the players. So I think he will want to push on. He'll want to establish the new stadium as a difficult place for teams to come to, as Gunsson Park was, which, you know, that's a challenge in itself because as we've seen with other teams, moves to new stadium become a bit fraught.

31:35I mean, the one time Arnie Slott lost his keel last season was at Gunsson Park when the fans are on top of you and the rage and it's not, I mean, the stadium has been designed so it is very steep-sided. So the feeling is that you are looking down, but it isn't going to be Goodison straight away. So I think that's going to be a target. I think they will be desperate for runs in the cup competitions. You know, it's 31 years since Everton won a trophy, which is, you know, obviously far too long. So I think that there's a list of ambitious targets that they'll want to reach. But I'm loathe to say just staying in the Premier League should be a target for Everton because they're too good a club for that.

32:26I think it's going to be maybe two or three years before the benefits of the new stadium are starting to be fully realised in terms of the revenue that will generate. There is a sense that it would bring in£65 million more per year than Goodison did if Everton are playing lots of home games and in cup competitions and so forth and maybe in Europe. So you can see straight away what a sort of transformative sum of money that is for a club that has been constrained by PSR rules in recent seasons and to an extent continues to be in this window. That's why they can't just go out and spend£50 million five times on different players.

33:18They've got a budget whereby if they spend£40 million on X, they might only be able to spend£15 on Y. That's part of the jigsaw that they're still trying to put together. A really interesting season ahead for all Everton fans. I can't wait to see that first game in that new stadium. Paul, just before I let you go, I understand you've got some updated news to bring listeners about Liverpool regarding what they may do before the end of the window. Let us know. As of Thursday morning, Darwin Nunes has agreed to the Al-Hilal deal for£46 million. He's been at the AXA training ground today saying his goodbyes.

34:00He'll now fly to probably Germany where Al-Hilal are holding the training camp to have a medical and to undergo other finishing touches on the deal. It's our understanding that Liverpool will look to sign an attacker to replace him. but there's the as we sort of explained in the first part of the show it's not just going to be there's criteria attached to it basically in terms of is the player really attainable which is obviously pertaining to isaac will will newcastle actually let him go or is their situation so dire that they think they have to keep hold of a not happy player and also another factor will be the fee you know when Newcastle rejected the 110 million pound bid last Friday there was still stories that their valuation was 150 million which is probably realistic in a lot of ways you know he scored a lot of goals over two seasons for Newcastle now in the Premier League but I don't think Liverpool would go to that much for a player I don't think that they see that in their view as being market value so yeah they will try and sign somebody to to fill the void that Nunes Diaz and all the others that we spoke about earlier has left but whether it's ISAC that'll be dependent on whether Newcastle are actually allowed are actually prepared to sell and the price and if that is the case the price that they would sell at another installment in the saga we're not really that much further on.

35:35Liverpool will have alternative targets. That's just how they work. It's interesting that we obviously spoke about Bradley Barkler earlier in the podcast. That doesn't seem to be a goer. So they will have targets. It's just, let's see what happens next with Isak. And in many ways, the whole Isak saga has always been in Newcastle's hands. They're the ones who have the player, regardless of them being unhappy they're the ones that determine what happens next Liverpool are there but as we've sort of tried to explain it won't be at any cost and that's just not the Liverpool way of doing things Really interesting proof as you say Paul of this ongoing saga changing all the time in the time that we have spent recording this segment of the podcast already news changing and updating all the time a reminder to keep up to date with the very best in the business from the Times Sport football team, including Paul Joyce.

36:35Paul, thank you very much for joining us. Listen, stick with us. We're going to be back after a short break with Pete Rutzler to talk about Chelsea, Bournemouth and Fulham. We'll see you in a minute.

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39:12Welcome back to the game football podcast from The Times. These are our club by club Premier League previews running through all 20 clubs in the top flight. In the first half of the show we heard from Paul Joyce talking about Liverpool and Everton and now we're joined by the London football reporter Pete Rutzler to run through clubs including Chelsea, Fulham and Bournemouth. Pete, hello. Hey Tom, how you doing? Very good, thank you. All the glamours of journalism exemplified by you today joining us to record this podcast from your car, am I right? That is correct, I am in the Citroen C1, it's doing a good job, soundproofing everything.

39:48Excellent, the kind of modern studios that only the top level of journalism can provide let's dive straight into it and talk about Chelsea a team of course who we have talked about on the podcast this summer of course with their exceptional performance in the Club World Cup winning that title out in America just going to follow the same format for all teams listeners so I'm going to run through Chelsea's very busy summer in terms of incomings and outgoings in they've brought in Liam De Lapp Estavao, Willian, Dario Esugu, Kendri Payez Mamadou Saar João Pedro, Jamie Gittins and Jarrell Hato, the latest signing from Ajax, out go Bashir Humphries, Lucas Bergstrom Marcus Bettinelli, Kepa Ariza Belaga Mattheas Amugu Noni Madueke, Jordi Petrovic Mike Penders João Felix, Kendri Payez has gone back out on loan Mamadou Saar has also gone out on loan Kiernan Drusby Hall has gone to Everton and Mark Mark Gouy has gone to Sunderland.

40:47Pete, they're never dull, Chelsea, are they, when it comes to in-goings and out-goings? Always busy in the transfer market. Just firstly, can we expect many more signings coming in and many more players going out? Firstly, thanks for reading them out. That's actually very helpful to just keep refreshing the memory. You might need to do it again halfway through just to make sure we're on the right track. But yes, they might do a bit more. They're still in talks with RB Leipzig about Xavi Simons. The interest in Alejandro Garnaccio has not gone away. either both of those though probably need more sales and i think what's sort of characterized this summer a little bit was their uefa settlement agreement for breaching their financial rules uefa's financial rules uh which came out earlier in the summer uh which basically requires them beyond the fines uh to register a positive transfer balance on their a-list squad which basically means to register more players for the champions league they need to read they need to sell players and make a profit based on not just transfer fees as we see, but also salaries.

41:48So there's definitely a bit of pressure on them to sell and they've actually done that pretty well so far. I think a few of them have been a bit unexpected in terms of Joao Felix comes to mind. I mean, that deal could be worth with the add-ons about 44 million, which considering his poor season at Chelsea, his poor loan at AC Milan, that kind of fee is a big thank you from Al Nasser in Saudi Arabia for that. Keenan Jusby Hall has recently just gone to Everton, 25 million as well. They paid about 30 million for him last summer. So those are the deals that they're trying to get through to open up more space.

42:20But yes, your initial question, they could do more. And the timing is interesting because the reason I'm in this situation is because I've just been to see Enzo Mareska for a pre-match press conference ahead of their friendlies this weekend. And he's revealed that Levi Colwell has suffered an injury. We don't know the severity yet, but from my understanding they're pretty concerned about it so that again could change things at centre-back too really interesting so so just just it could be signings anywhere there's no particular area I always get that impression with Chelsea that under this regime that if there are talented players out there to be signed they could well be in for them as long as the money's right and the finance and the balance of the books is right is would that be fair yeah I think that's fair I think for what they want to do the rest of the window is certainly another a wide player or creative player hence the the pursuit of Xavi Simons.

43:08He's sort of a winger, but can also play inside. He's that kind of profile, probably maybe to sort of fit the Christopher and Kunku position in the squad. It's never really worked for him, but he's a player that Chelsea would like to sell as well. And then also Garnatio. So you get the sense that it's that end of the pitch that they want to sort of work on. Centre-back has always been a topic. And I think if Colwell's injury is as serious as, which I think it may be the fear, then maybe that they'll revisit that as well. really interesting I mean it all comes down to all these players coming in and as I mentioned already that great success at the Club World Cup winning that tournament with the brilliant victory in the final against the mighty PSG showing the rest of Europe how to beat Luis Enrique's Paris Saint-Germain side it comes back to a question that we asked a lot of you and the rest of your colleagues on the Times football team last season what is success for Chelsea last season it was all about that big debate, getting into the Champions League, winning the Conference League, that is the bare minimum.

44:06Surely the expectation goes up a notch now, particularly with that Club World Cup win. We've talked about this before in the summer, but now they've made more signings and you've had time to reflect and obviously just spoke to Enzo Morescu himself, as you say. Are we starting to suggest or should we be suggesting that Chelsea should be challenging for this Premier League title? I think so. I think they should be in the conversation, at least for a significant period of the season. I think that's the natural next step. I think obviously securing consistent Champions League qualification is a positive and it's something that the club will want to get back to.

44:40And I think that's probably a sort of a bare minimum now. But I think considering the steps that they made at the end of last season, one, getting back in the Champions League, winning a trophy, then winning the Club World Cup and playing as well as they did in the final. Yes, there are all the caveats about it being whatever end of season, everything else. But they still played PSG who were undisputably the best team in Europe probably the world and and beat them and comfortably beat them so you'd think now with the additions that they've made the squad does look stronger I think they've upgraded positions particularly in the forward areas as you mentioned you would say that they should be in the conversation for a strong part of the season ahead um obviously the big unknown is what this turnaround time is going to do it's an exceptionally short pre-season um it's pretty unprecedented to be honest and how that will impact the team I think maybe later in the season you know not having done the heavier work the heavy lifting the the more physical aspects of of off-season you know strength and conditioning work that you can't do during games how much will that be a factor as the season goes on you know I did a piece that's on the times and talking about what some sports scientists think about it and it may not be too different and they think that you know they may not be rusty they might have have a good start because they've got you know they're coming from competitive competition going into the league it is just that sort of unknown about what what may happen further down the line the thing is they do have a deep squad and they will need to use that and the substitutions rule and being able to rotate as much as possible and that that will be key to seeing how well they do yeah interesting you mentioned they're talking to Enzo Mureska just now from that press conference did you have anything else to say how did he seem how was his mood we were fascinated as we always are with hearing from you guys being in the room.

46:23You learn so much from being actually there talking to these managers. Mareska, quite a coy figure at times last season. How did he seem heading into this new campaign? Yeah, probably similar actually. Pretty low-key to be honest. He's probably a bit fed up of having to see us again so quickly. Yeah, nothing too exciting. I think it's ahead of these friendlies they've got this weekend in the Visit Malta Weekender. so playing by Leverkusen and AC Milan deflecting questions on transfers interesting on Nicholas Jackson in that he didn't exactly make a big show of wanting him to stay he just kind of said well you know let's see we've got two other strikers like anything else anything could happen which doesn't look particularly great for Jackson obviously but yeah nothing no particular excitement I think it was very low-key it was very subtle other than bringing up the Coldwell injury which he did on a question about the transfer window.

47:20So that suggests that it's, yeah, about the severity of it. Interesting. You mentioned before about Liam De Lapp and Jao Pedro coming in and doing well in that Club World Cup. We've talked about them on previous shows. You mentioned Jackson there. They've also signed Esteval, who can play up front as well, Jamie Gittins. And you mentioned that pursuit of Xavi Simons. What might this Chelsea forward line look like? Because at times last season, they looked fantastic. Obviously, Noni Madueke is gone. you talk about Nkunku may be leaving as well what do you think the new Chelsea 2.0 under Enzo Mareska's attacking line-up might look like with obviously Cole Palmer being the superstar at the Fulcrum still would that be the case?

48:01Yeah absolutely I think I mean the general sense from Chelsea is that they want to have a very flexible front line they want Enzo Mareska to have a lot of options the ability to rotate the ability to cope with the multiple competitions without necessarily taking away from the strength of the team And I think when you look at last season, I mean, there were two months after January where they didn't have a centre forward with Nicholas Jackson and Mark Gu both injured. They're now in a position where Jackson may go. Mark Gu's already gone and they've got two other very good centre forward options who are different in profile.

48:33You know, De Lapp has a bit more of the Jackson about him in terms of his presence, whereas Giao Pedro is much more of an intricate player, likes to bring others into play. And we saw that really impressively at the Club World Cup. and the same goes in the wide areas you know it was trying to find consistency from those players Jadon Sancho, Noddy Maduweke and Pedro Neto that was hard to come by and I think what they've done is they've added Gittins who will impact from the left Esteval is a really exciting player obviously there's a bit of a you know Maresca was keen to say today look he's a brilliant top talent but he's going to take time to adapt he's got to get used to the country the league and everything else but fundamentally they want to get to a point where there is that fluidity and that flexibility in their front line that makes them a bit more unpredictable.

49:15So I think that's probably what we'll see and it won't be a set, but I think the one constant, and maybe actually it's reflective of the whole of the midfield, but obviously Cole Palmer is there as the constant alongside Enzo Fernandes and Moises Caicedo, players who, yeah, firmly established themselves now as the sort of untouchables within the Chelsea squad. What do you think are the challenges for Maresca this season? Is it expectation? Is it managing that rotation? or is it maybe an understanding that, you know, I'm talking them up here, I think they really will potentially challenge for this title, take on the enthusiasm and confidence from that Club World Cup win.

49:53If they can get these players to gel, I think they'll be right up there. But what do you see as the challenge just to finish this segment on Chelsea? What do you think for Maresca that the challenge is this season? I think it's always with expectations in Chelsea and I think it was harder last season because he wanted it to be the message to be much more of a reset, that this team is much younger, we're starting from a lower base, it's going to take time, you need to be patient. I think that will apply again. And I think where more of the focus will be will certainly be on style and how they look and have they progressed.

50:23Are the team looking like a stronger side? And I think during the Club World Cup, we felt that, particularly in the final game, a game that actually saw Mureska tweak things. He trialled a different system out there in America. So, you know, it was much more of a, I'd say a 4-2-2-2, but it was a way of getting Rhys James into the team along with Fernandes and Caicedo and Lavia when he's available. And that was a sort of a conundrum for most of last year. And what Maresco will need to do is sort of show that the team have taken that step forward because the biggest criticism from supporters, particularly as we got into the second half of the season, was how the team looked and the nature of performances.

51:03It could be a lot slower. It's a lot more controlled. and just sort of marrying those two things together while achieving good results. It's fine if you're winning, but then obviously if you're not, then it becomes a much more difficult thing. And I think if there are those sort of slumps like we saw in the middle of last season this year, the pressure will be a lot higher because the expectations have naturally risen because they have taken a step forward. Expectations nice and high, but I think well justified. I'm excited to see how Chelsea get on this season. Let's move to another club in London.

51:36And if Chelsea are a team with loads and loads of players in the ins and outs category of the article that I'm reading on the Times website, which keeps you up to date with all the transfer goings on, then Fulham, quite frankly, are the quietest. Just one player brought in so far, Benjamin Lecomte from Montpellier, out go Willian, Carlos Vinicius, Steve Bender and Luke Harris. Those two last players have gone out on loan. Pete, Fulham are a fascinating team. They're a team that we often praise on this podcast, particularly our colleague Alison Rudd for their very efficient, not quite frugal, but very logical way of doing things.

52:12They've made lots of signings in the past from Premier League rivals, players that maybe have been seen as discarded or unwanted by some of the bigger clubs and made a really effective team under Marco Silva. What do you think about the lack of business so far? Are you hearing or expecting more business from them between now and the end of the window? I don't think it's going to be massively busy. I think you're right. Fulham have sort of carved this niche of, I say, recycling players, rejuvenating players. Yeah. Recycling has a different feeling. Recycling's a very positive thing, Pete. We're in 2025.

52:47There's not wrong with a bit of recycling. But yeah, rejuvenating is perhaps more the word. Yeah, definitely. And they're in a position now where I think the club feel they've got a good squad. obviously with the way they've done their recruitment it's naturally been older so last summer we saw you know signs of slightly younger players coming in obviously Emile Smith-Rowe being at the heart of that and I think they want and they feel the important thing is not losing key players so they managed to persuade Kenny Tete to stay the right back they've kept some of their best young academy players as well Josh King's had a was around the first team last season I expect to see more of him this year Seth Rijin Luc de Fugero so they're trying to marry these things together, ensuring a player pathway, and then also the fact that they are a club of their size.

53:32And this also applies to Bournemouth. Their revenue only takes them so far. They don't have the revenue on top of Premier League broadcast money. And when you actually look at their accounts, most of that money that comes in goes straight onto wages. They do have quite a large wage bill. I think it's about mid-table. It reflects where they are in the league. But then when you think about what it means to then spend money and the limitations of PSR, and you can only lose a certain amount per season, about 35 million, you're suddenly constrained about how much you can spend and how much you can do.

54:02And so if you're not making sales, in the previous seasons they sold Palinja, they sold Mitrovic and they adapted brilliantly, then you're limited in what else you can do. And I think, you know, Marco Silva, he always wants to improve the team. I get the sense he wants new faces as well at the moment. I think they want to add a winger, as you said, you know, they've lost Reece Nelson and Willian Reece Nelson is in talks to come back. so that may be an option how that's structured I don't know Samuel Chiquese at Milan's another option for them so that I think they will add but I think they're also in a position where they can't do a lot and they feel like they need to protect what they have you know they've got some great players like Anthony Robinson Calvin Bassi is another one who could attract interest and obviously Rodrigo Munez at Premier League number nine he looks like he's got much further to develop as well he's attracted interest so holding what they have is key and if you don't then add extra the extra money somewhere then you can't really do much else so they feel they've got a good team it's just how they complement that and probably keep marco silver happy because he's in the final year of his contract he's done a brilliant job taking them back into the premier league stabilizing them no questions of relegation you know he's keeping him happy is the other side of the coin.

55:15So it's an interesting dynamic, but that makes for a not particularly busy summer at the moment. No, but I mean, it is fascinating, isn't it? Talking about Chelsea there and even with Paul Joyce in the first half of the show, we were kind of recording added segments at the end, talking to him because the Liverpool situation has moved on again. I actually, honestly, I think I'm going to be a Fulham fan this season. It's just so wonderfully refreshing to hear you talk about them and then look at their squad and be like, actually, we've just got a really good squad. We did well last season. Let's try and do well again.

55:44It's almost like completely old school, but just looking at their squad, Bernd Leno, a very good Premier League goalkeeper. Some of the players you mentioned in defence, Tete. Calvin Bassie was one of my stars of last season. Joachim Andersen is a great player at Premier League level. And yeah, as you say, they've got great players going forward. Muniz, Iwobi, Pereira. You know, these are incredibly good, solid players. Smith Rowe, I would expect more to come from this season. And Anthony Robertson, obviously, as well, a real star in the Premier League. What do you think, let's say if it was a quiet window, but if they had to add two players, where would you be looking?

56:19Would it be in the attacking areas? Because to me, that defence looks quite solid. Yeah, I'd certainly think they need to add a winger just because of who they've lost. Someone who can provide a bit more unpredictability because that's what Willian sort of provided. That was Rhys Nelson as well. They do miss that. Harry Wilson's looked incredibly bright in pre-season and he had a similar pre-season, I think, a year or two ago and then suffered a knee injury and he's never quite managed to click into gear. He plays very well for Wales. So maybe it could be a big season for him. But I think that's the area.

56:49And I think they'd also want to maybe add a number eight type midfielder. Again, you'd probably say if they do do that, maybe that means Pereira could go. I mean, Pereira has been always linked potentially with leaving. No signs of that at the moment, but it is always that sort of case of someone comes in, someone comes out. But I think those are the kind of areas that would take the team forward. And certainly I think where Marco Silva would want to take the team forward as well. Fulham and Fulham fans, I'm sure, listening to this, have got to be kind of maybe looking at the examples of Newcastle and Crystal Palace last season with those brilliant Cup successes.

57:21They've got to be looking for a League Cup or a FA Cup run. Obviously, they did quite well in the FA Cup last season, but they've got to be targeting one of those trophies, haven't they, this season? Because if they can, they've got a team capable of winning it. Do you think there's a balance to be made, though, between Premier League stability or maybe going for Europe. It comes back to that question that I've asked everyone. What is success for Fulham? Is it more challenging for Europe or would it be finish maybe 12th, 13th, but target a cup success instead? I think both. Last season there was disappointment because they fell off towards the end of the season and there was the scope to maybe get eighth.

58:01And obviously Crystal Palace took that position and it never would have worked that way. but they also had a fall off of the previous season as well. I mean, they've got to the League Cup semi-final, they've got to the FA Cup quarter-final a couple of times. There is certainly, those are the things that they think they can achieve and they feel very close to achieving them. Certainly Marco Silva will want to do that, something to sort of crown his sort of tenure at the club. And if you are a club of Fulham size, never won a major trophy, you know, last FA Cup final was in 1975, that's massive.

58:29You know, it is the same things we saw with Palace. Like these are the club defining, you know, era defining, history defining moments. And that's what you've got to sort of be chasing. And they had a brilliant run in the Europa League in 2010, 2011. And I think trying to get back to that would be incredible. It's obviously incredibly difficult when you look at the nature of, I mean, you could pick seven, eight teams with astonishingly bigger budgets than what Fulham have. but if you can stay in that conversation and maybe nick a place with those falling off United Spurs type seasons then that's great I think that's less likely over the longer term so you are looking at those cups and they would fancy themselves to beat any team on a given day so again I think they'll take them seriously they have done always under Silva and I expect they'll do the same this year Yeah really interesting to see how Fulham get on Fulham fans if you've got points you'd like to make or questions you'd like to ask the team in future shows get in touch with me tom.clark at the times.co.uk and of course that goes for all other supporters of the other 19 clubs in the league as well let's finish this part 2 episode of our club by club guide with a look at Bournemouth quite quiet again in the transfer window but with some massive massive outgoings they've signed Adrian Truffaut from Rennes and Jordi Petrovic as we mentioned coming in from Chelsea the goalkeeper but out go Dean Hewson the centre-back who starred last season he's gone to Real Madrid Milos Kerkes as well, the left back, of course, has gone to Liverpool.

59:53Jadon Anthony, Daniel Jebberson has gone out on loan, as has Max Ahrens, Mark Travers and Joe Rothwell as well. Pete Bournemouth, like Fulham, very similar, a team much praised in that bracket and in the teams in the middle of the Premier League, if you like, with aspirations to break into Europe. Did absolutely brilliantly last season under Andoni Iraiola, a manager as well as the players who is looked at by other teams. What do you expect from them? As I mentioned there, two players signed, but some big names out. Will Bournemouth fans be worried about maybe more outgoings or should they be excited about some incomings?

1:00:28I think Bournemouth accept this as well. That's just part of their model, right? And I think it's interesting because Fulham and Bournemouth, similar sort of profile in terms of stature and revenue and all those things. Bournemouth are obviously going after these young, promising talents, quickly polishing them up and selling them for big money. That's half the story you do have to sell them. And I think this summer has been bruising defensively. as you mentioned, you know, three of their back five have gone, if you include the goalkeeper. And it could be four if Sabani goes to PSG, which is looking increasingly likely.

1:00:58So it is all on how they sort of reinvest it. And I think they've done okay so far. I think George Petrovic is a great upgrade on, well, a great replacement for Kepa. I think he could be an upgrade actually, because of how well he did at Strasbourg. It was some surprise, really, he didn't really have more of a look in at Chelsea, you know, considering the goalkeeper issues that they've had, and maybe even just a look a bit more. who didn't go to the Club World Cup. Adrian Truffaut is really highly rated, as you said. He comes in for Kirchges. They'd also brought in Julio Soler, an Argentinian young left-back in January.

1:01:30So they're always looking ahead and sort of more following the Brighton way of doing things. They haven't got the centre-back. And I think centre-back is key, right? They've lost Dean Housen. They've got Marcus Senesi, of course. But if they lose Sabani as well, then you probably would be a little bit more concerned. The good thing, and obviously we're talking about these outgoings and they're big and they do need to do a little bit more in the window is that they've kept a lot of their attack. Antoine Semenyo signed a new contract. There was a lot of talk about what he might do this summer. Keeping him is huge.

1:02:02They've still got Justin Cliver. Alex Scott's had a brilliant summer, obviously with England under 21s. There's a bit of excitement about what he can do coming into this season. Evan Ilsen, they've signed this very exciting young striker from Lorient, Eli Kruppi. so he's come back after being alone there so there's a little bit of there are positives for Bournemouth to take I think and it hasn't been as much of an upheaval I think as you might fear they do have to strengthen defence so I think that's clear because of just how big those changes are and I think that's the balance with those models right if you do too much in a window it can really unsettle you and you could fall off but if you get it right obviously there are big rewards for them and the ownership are very ambitious and I expect that they'll still have a strong season this year and particularly under Iriola who's obviously been brilliant for them since he's come in.

1:02:54Yeah, you mentioned Iriola there. You talked a little bit about Fulham having to keep Marco Silva happy. Bournemouth have definitely got to keep Andoni Iriola happy. He was a manager, much lauded by everyone in the media last season including us on the game podcast. How do you think he'll be approaching this season? Because he did brilliantly last season then ends the season with lots of people touting him for a potential move to bigger clubs with respect to Bournemouth, of course. The pressure will be slightly on him, though, won't there? Because, you know, all his tricks and his tactics, we've had a season of them now.

1:03:26Opposition will know how he's going to play. Will he be looking to change it up or will it be about consolidation this season, do you think? I don't think he would change too much about his style and his approach and how successful that's been. I think it's widely seen this way, that the way Bournemouth play, how direct and intense and aggressive they are, particularly off the ball, pragmatic at times, is sort of the modern direction and certainly the hallmark of the Premier League and the excitement that the league brings. He's in an interesting position. He's liked Silva. I think he's in the final year of his contract as well.

1:03:58And Bournemouth would love to extend that for longer. I think for him he has done quite a lot and I think it'll be about maintaining that and I think you obviously want and this is the other balance right what applies to players and their progression will also apply to coaches when you're at a club of this size so Bournemouth will be well aware that you know other clubs will be looking at him and the work he's doing and what kind of interest could materialise and in order to keep him happy is just to keep providing him with these exciting young players that he can then polish and then help to flourish going forward.

1:04:33So in terms of the way they're playing, I don't think we'll see too much change. Obviously, there's going to need to be some adaptability because of who they've lost and where they've lost them within the team. But there is that sort of progression and they have still kept a good amount of their squad. So they'll certainly want to back him and I think that we'll see that as the rest of the summer goes on. Yeah, given that attacking talent that they've kept, I'm just again looking through their ranks. You know, they've still got Clive, as you say, Eva Nielsen I'm too very excited to see what Alex Scott can produce in this midfield a real young talent do we think that maybe just comparing them to Fulham in lots of ways as we've already done should they be aiming a little bit higher have they got a slightly better stronger squad or is it just that they've got more exciting players maybe that burst onto the scene last season is that why I'm looking at it like that there's something about them that suggests that maybe they should be thinking could we be breaking into Europe or should we be part of that cup conversation I think they want to get there I think the same as like I mentioned with Fulham it's almost I'd say it's a ceiling but it's a very difficult bridge to gap until you start building other revenue sources obviously Fulham have redeveloped their Riverside stand Bournemouth have plans to redevelop their stadium they've done a lot in terms of trying to bring in more hospitality and just generating money beyond just what was on the field without that particularly with PSR if you're a club of that size you you are very limited in terms of what you can invest so for Bournemouth it is a case of buying buying cheap selling for big money and they've got to try and get as many of these signings right as possible so far they've done that so you go on what's for the precedent and you expect them to to continue doing that now for them to continue to fight against the European places it is it is exceptional and it should be seen as being exceptional I think there's certainly disappointment that they fell off like they did last season considering that the bulk of their key results and really strong positive results mid-season were achieved when so many in their squad were injured.

1:06:33When they got some of those players back towards the end of the season, the results sort of tailed off a little bit. So they'll be looking at that. They'll be looking at putting in the building blocks at the start of the season to try and maintain that consistency throughout our campaign. But that doesn't take away from how difficult it is to get into that top seven, eight bracket because you can easily name seven, eight teams with much more resources available to them that can defeat Bournemouth. So you've got to be smart. It's the smart clubs that can try and break that sort of ceiling. And Bournemouth certainly have the ability to do that.

1:07:04I think after a summer which has seen such a key amount of their defence change, you wonder how much this year could be a little more transitional as opposed to going straight back in and punching well above their weight like they did last year. But we'll see. I think a lot depends on who they get in. And I know they're still looking for a centre-back and they've looked at Loic Bade at Sevilla and Bafferde, Bafferde, Diakite at Lille. So they are looking for these bright young central defenders as well. So we'll see if they can land one. Yeah, Bournemouth and Fulham definitely hoping to punch above their weight.

1:07:37As you say, Pete, we'll see what's to come in the transfer market for both those sides and indeed Chelsea. Pete Rutzler, thank you very much for joining us on this part two of our Premier League Club by Club preview show. Thank you two for listening. We'll be back with the next installment in this series with Charlotte Dunker and Gregor Robertson talking about both Manchester clubs, Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa and Wolves. We'll see you then.

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