The BIG Football League season preview

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0:46Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times and Sunday Times. The football league season is here and it is time for our biggest EFL Extra preview show ever. Who is going up, who is going down and who are the surprise packages in the Championship League 1 and League 2? We'll talk transfers, new stars, managers to watch and the fallout from Spygate. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me for all of that, we have the football reporters who cover clubs across the country. It's Kit Shepard and Joe Harston and back from his son, Lounger. And pumped and ready for the new season, we have the former footballer who made more than 300 appearances for clubs, including Nottingham Forest, Rotherham and Chesterfield.

1:27it's game podcast regular Gregor Robertson cut your holiday short actually to make this show didn't you of course focused it all around being here for this the big start yeah the kickoff the big start the big kickoff we've got reinforcements here in the studio Kit and Joe here with us stop you and I just waffling on all the time bring some real knowledge to proceedings can I just ask as well for you Gregor I think we're all wondering this at this stage in the season I've definitely asked you this before would you rather be on a training pitch doing shuttle runs or in a studio with three journalistic luminaries like kit joe and myself no offense guys

2:06Gregor Robertson: uh i street i was maybe a bit of a sadist i strangely enjoyed pre-season because you're you know after the although it's painful you're in the best shape of your life and it feels good being in that kind of nick and i'm definitely not in that nick now so uh yeah i I miss it a bit and, you know, the freshly cut grass and all that kind of stuff, the cliches, the sun. And now I'm stuck in here in a dark room with you guys. But it's good to be here, though. Pumped. It was me, too. Still excited. In terms of being prepped and ready, Joe, you've written a brilliant guide to the championship. That's on the Times website now.

2:39You can read that and in the Times pages as well. We're going to base it around a similar structure. And I think it's probably best that we start with looking at the relegated sides, because all the chat, isn't it, in the Championship, and Joe, I'll probably start with you, is around West Ham. We have this so often in all leagues, don't we? But particularly in the Football League, everyone's saying, oh, well, they're going to walk the league. Everyone forgets how difficult the Football League is. How would you assess that assessment of West Ham as walk-away favourites? Yeah, of course, it's never that simple.

3:10And they're obviously a team full of players that haven't been in this division for a long time. But when you look at players, like one in particular, Jared Bowen, The fact that he is playing the championship, I can't remember the last time there's been a known best player in the league like that, come back down again and stay there. We've seen players come from abroad and surprise everyone how good they are, but we all know how good Jared Bowen is, and he has to be favourite for top goal scorer, for example, straight away. And player of the year and things as well. Would you agree with that, Greg?

3:39It's a good point Joe makes, isn't it? The last time we had a player that we knew was as good as he is, being like, no, I'm just going to take this league on, actually.

3:46Gregor Robertson: Yeah it's hard to think of The last example That's someone who's really You know Was unfortunate Not to be an England player In some part Yeah it's a big surprise I'm surprised Nuno's still there as well To be really honest And You know I'm not entirely sure Whether he's going to be The best fit Given The way that Most teams who win The championship these days Are really dominant And that's not really been His His kind of mode of play His sort of style of play Throughout his career But you're going to have to Play like that If you're West Ham Playing at London Stadium and everyone's coming there to take a scalp.

4:18Gregor Robertson: So, yeah, they're two big surprises. And there are a lot of players there who will have their phones on loud and like double vibrate until September 1st. And I don't know what that does about the atmosphere and the environment. That's before you even come to the fans and what's going on in the boardroom. So still a lot of uncertainty, but absolutely, as Joe says, that's an enormous plus for them having Jarrod Bowen committing himself to the club. Okay, thoughts on West Ham? Very strong. I think Nuno's a really interesting one, not only with his style of play. We know he, ideally, especially in the Premier League, would prefer to have less possession, or he's had success with having less possession at least.

4:57Not going to be able to do that so much for a team like West Ham in a championship. And also, yes, he's won it before with Wolves. One of the strongest teams we've probably seen in that division for a decade. Was that purely down to him or was that just Wolves with the George Mendes connection coming at that time? or was it Ruben Neves, people like that? Was it more down to the players? I guess we'll find out. And I think with the thing Gregor was saying as well about the kind of transfer uncertainty, you talked about what it's like in pre-season coming back. What's it like at this time of the year where the transfer window is still open and you don't know who your teammates might be in a couple of weeks?

5:35Gregor Robertson: Yeah, I think it's actually almost unique for the teams who come down from the Premier League to the Championship in that there's usually so much uncertainty and there's such a big churn you think of I remember Southampton a couple of years being in this league and Sullivan James Ward-Prowse playing in the team at the start of the season against Sheffield Wednesday and they go through something Mavropanos Todibo Juuff Alvarez Corny Castellanos Pablo Fulcrook still there Juan Bissaka even Arreola the goalkeeper a lot of players there who will not really want to be playing the championship so So this is a kind of challenge that these relegated teams have to navigate.

6:18Gregor Robertson: And the fact that it spills into the start of the season makes the job for them even harder. So it's not necessarily going to be a straightforward kickoff and they know what their squad is, their team is and the land. There's still a lot of tumult to come for them. Yeah. I mean, Joe, what do you think about that idea that maybe the pressure, as much as Jared Bowen, and I agree with you, I think a lot of listeners and viewers would say the same thing, but the pressure you mentioned it and Greg I meant people coming for a scalp as well everyone I think when the fixtures came out when's West Ham when's West Ham away when's West Ham at home because they are a big club in that league with respect to Wolves and Burnley and some of the other clubs down there that comes with a pressure as well doesn't it do you think they can handle it and do you think that squad of as Greg I said maybe players who are thinking do I want to be here do I want to be playing Millwall on a you know the cliches on a cold Tuesday night in November etc I think the cliche's Lincoln though Tom yeah I'm just glad you brought them up first I'm just pleased you mentioned them first but what do you reckon to that idea Joe that the pressure that West Ham will feel as well yeah absolutely I mean this is going to be over 50 ,000 or you'd expect that if it keeps going well for them there's 50 ,000 in that stadium every week that's something that a lot of players in this league haven't experienced and yeah so they do on that scalp I know that it's Wolves playing first but you see pretty much every season you'll you'll always have a newly relegated team versus a team that's probably going to be down then the first night and you expect it to be a walkover and it never is I remember Southampton in that game where James Boyd Prowers played I think they only just got past Sheffield Wednesday that night and last year I went to in League One Luton versus AFC Wimbledon and Luton only just squeezed past that so actually immediately from from day one the teams are looking for that scalp and that is something that I guess yeah that West Ham players even though they had a very good end to the last season it's a completely different kind of mindset to tap into we should also just flag the kind of off-field uncertainty with West Ham as well that's the whole situation with David Sullivan but then you've also got the battle for takeover potentially by Daniel Kratinsky at Amanda Stave at least investing into the club which I guess you could read either way you could say that's going to create more kind of uncertainty and chaos behind the scenes or you could say oh look you've got these different business people very different backgrounds still seeing West Ham as a club with real potential and what I've gone for.

8:31I wonder if fans would maybe look at it and be like, I wish this was all kind of sore. You know, the league starts now. It starts right now. These are points to be picked up. And yes, because of the World Cup, it's not an ideal pre-season. But as you say, Kit, there's uncertainty in the boardroom. Gregor and Joe, you both outlined a playing squad that you're like, is this exactly the playing squad we'd want for this season ahead? I think some fans maybe would have liked to see a clear out and then some people brought in as well. Maybe some players that are used to the championship, maybe some young players, some exciting players that are going to take on the championship.

9:02Let's bring in Wolves and Burnley then and then look at the three teams as a whole. How are we looking at those two sides as well? Changes in managers for both of them. Two managers that I think a lot of fans maybe haven't heard of before. Differing success in their careers, Nicky Hayen taking over at Burnley after Scott Parker, managing Belgium with Genk and Bruges, had decent success there. Cesar Pecito, I think is how you pronounce his name, but Wolves, another Portuguese manager, stunned to see that one one of his big claims he's one manager of the month in Portugal I saw probably the most successful thing he's done managing various teams in Portugal you just don't know what you're going to get Gregor do you with these two teams and they've both had different approaches in transfers as well haven't they?

9:43Gregor Robertson: Yeah I mean I think they've got the same challenge there's still a lot a lot will change between now and September 1st Burnley in particular have got an enormous number of players they've still got a lot of players who I think will be looking to leave, someone like Zion Fleming they've already sold Maximus Stev to RB Leipzig, Jadon Antony to Brentford Florentino to Ipswich so they've still got some really good players for this level and players who actually, you've got to remember they've won promotion in four consecutive seasons and have been in the championship now so they've done this before, they know how to navigate this challenge, they've still got Brun Larson, Josh Laurent, Conor Roberts, Ekdal, Josh Cullen, Nyle Foster.

10:29Gregor Robertson: That was the core of a really good team that were promoted. So I'm not entirely sure about Burnley because I'm not sure about the manager. I'm still not sure what the team's going to look like. They could play in the Championship with Amanda Broya up front, who I think there's a good player in there. He's just been crippled with injuries. They could still have Marcus Edwards, who could throw shapes and absolutely tear up the league, but he could go as well. There's still a lot unknown about this team. And actually, there's the same battle that West Ham are possibly going to experience about toxicity.

11:06Gregor Robertson: The Burnley fans are sick of being this yo-yo club. They're sick the way that the club is being run and the player trading model that's doing a good job in the Championship on the whole, but when they get to the Premier League, it's leaving them way short. So they need a good start, much like West Ham. Wolves, I think. Good that they're playing each other then. Perfect. Yeah. Wolves in the other hand, I think they've got some absolute stars and I don't think they have to do the trading that the other clubs might. I know West Ham have moved on. Somerville and Fernandes raised about 140 million, so they don't have to do it.

11:42Gregor Robertson: But I think they have more players, Wolves, who look like they'd be willing to stay and get the team immediately back into the Premier League. Yeah. Thoughts on those two, Joe, when you were writing your preview to the season? Yeah, I'm definitely kind of bigger on Wolves than I am on Burnley. Like you said, those players that have gone as well, Jadon Anthony, I think he was contributing to more than a quarter of their goals in the Prem last season, was a massive part of their last promotion campaign. Maximus Dev is a huge, huge loss. I remember watching him play and just thinking he was like the kind of Van Dijk of the Championship, that physical presence that he has.

12:15I think that would be a huge loss and he would have been probably the best defender of the Championship had he stayed with Burnley. whereas yeah with Wolves I think that they've got some really there's a few kind of shining stars that came out of the back end of last season when they were I guess already preparing for relegation even though they changed manager after that Matthias Mane in particular is one that I'm very very big on whenever I've watched him play I've been really impressed I've seen him play across the midfield the first time I watched him play it was just in the new year when they got their first win of the season against West Ham and he completely ran the show Nuno took off both centre mids at half time to try and deal with Matias Mane, basically.

12:55And I think he scored twice that day. Yeah, he can play behind the striker, play midfield, very strong, fast going on the ball. And I think he's only about 19. And they've got all the old boys back as well. Jose Sarr, signed Kieran Trippier, Raul Jimenez is back for a kind of farewell, you know, finish, top of the championship, goal-scoring charts. It all feels like it works. And there's part of me that therefore means in my head that it won't. I don't know why, because you look at it and you look at it on paper and all those players, Adam Armstrong, not even mentioned, Hwangi Chan, you go to Sasa Kalidzic as well.

13:24I think he's a good signer. He could be really good. I agree with you about Mane. Andre in midfield. You're like, this is a stacked team. And I just think it could be chaos. I don't know why. I could be completely wrong. Kit, what do you reckon? It should work. It should all work in theory. They've got the players. They've got the kind of... They're a club that you feel is at least big enough to be in the Premier League most of the time, certainly at the top of the championship at least. I think the fact that they've been preparing for this for quite a while isn't a bad thing either. I do think the question is the manager.

13:57Rob Edwards, it would have made sense if he was still manager and we were talking about him being in charge, someone who's got a proven track record at the top of the championship. So that is the one big question. But on the other side, Wolves and Portuguese managers, Portuguese league usually works pretty well. Usually works pretty well, yeah. Kieran Trippi are just whipping in crosses and Jimenez heading them in. So are we heading down a route where Wolves out of the three promoted sides are stronger favourites, do you think? Because we're going to now broaden it out. We've obviously got this bigger playoff category to talk about.

14:29But it is the top two that everyone's going for. You don't want the playoffs, which we're going to come to in a minute, talking about a couple of other teams. But are we in agreement then? You've all convinced me. I think I went into this thinking West Ham were the outright favourites of the three who came down. You've all now slightly swayed me that it's Wolves. Greg?

14:48Gregor Robertson: I think it's Wolves, yeah. I think they're most likely to be kind of looking like this when the transfer window closes. Yes, true, yeah. You could throw in Bellegarde. I like Hugo Bueno, certainly in the Championship.

15:06Gregor Robertson: Yana Hoover. They've got some good players. Maybe slight uncertainty in central defence and goalkeeper, I doubt Josie Sazgan who's going to stick around. but I think they'll probably fix those holes and I think they're probably just about the favourites. Joe? Yes, just about. You're still about the Bowen factor? Yeah, that's exactly it. The Bowen factor, the Nuno factor. When I originally put my predictions together I said West Ham and now kind of as we've spoke about it I realise that there's far more players than Wolves have that I particularly like. So yeah, I'll just about say Wolves but I think those two.

15:41I think Gregor makes a good point to keep reminding everyone that we've got two more weeks of the transfer window and I think there is a world in which West Ham at the end of the transfer window could look as strong as Wolves. There's also a world in which, as Kit mentioned, it's been complete chaos off the pitch and maybe West Ham haven't got what they wanted. Kit, Wolves for you? I think Wolves, yes, right now, they're looking at the most settled and that would be my answer, not to sit on the fence. But I think it's worth just reminding with West Ham, having said Wolves have been preparing for relegation for half a season, the other extreme is West Ham got 39 points in the Premier League last year and while Nuno was far from flawless, they weren't terrible when he came in.

16:15So this is a very good team in that sense to drop down to championships. So if they can get all that uncertainty sorted out with Bowen's goals and assists, I think they could have a really good season and maybe have a higher ceiling than the other two. But right now, yeah, Wolves would be my answer. Interesting. Well, let's broaden it out then and bring in some other teams. And two teams in particular, Southampton and Middlesbrough. Spygate, one of the most remarkable stories of a remarkable season last season. And the real reason that Kit and Joe are here with us in the studio, because Kit is a Southampton fan and Joe is a Middlesbrough fan.

16:53And we've sat them next to each other, but they're highly professional. I've assured me that you don't need Gregor Robertson to sit between them. Kit, I want to start with you with Southampton. Not only a club that you support, but a club that you cover as well. You wrote a brilliant piece in the Times pages last weekend from their big game at Colchester. I decided to send you down there straight after his holiday. What a wonderful, wonderful editor I am. But it was interesting, wasn't it, to speak to Southampton fans, both before the game and then hear the attitude that they had to their status as the kind of championship pariahs, if you like.

17:26Yeah, Southampton, as a writer, are in their villain era now, which when I went up to Colchester on Saturday, wasn't the case initially. So I kind of had a walk around before kickoff, went to a pub that was about 20 minutes from the stadium it was all very chilled out you know the fans of both teams mixing together I spoke to some Southampton fans like how's it feel being being a club that suddenly everyone dislikes and then and people quite reflective they're obviously like maybe we feel the punishment's a bit harsh but you know we they cheated so they're kind of they held their hands up in that sense yeah get in the ground teams are walking out you and the tribalism of an away end and it's very different.

18:08You hear in Wolfsby when we won, bleep the EFL, at least imagination, what it actually said. And yeah, and then they were very much embracing being the villains then. And I think that's going to be the way the season on the pitch. I think they're going to have the siege mentality. I think that's reflected in the club, the comments from the club. Chief executive said, we're going to be the team everyone likes. No, we don't particularly care. yeah um Flynn Downs made some comments a couple of weeks ago in the midfield uh just saying sort of are we kind of almost playing down what happened last year saying oh well we got punished for one reason or another and not going into the precise reasons so yeah it's um they're kind of adopting that siege mentality as I say and that's reflected maybe in the fact that they've managed to keep so many of the players which we might might get yeah we'll come back to that and the things hanging over Southampton, of course, as well, with that charge for manager Tonda Eckhart as well.

19:06But Joe, thoughts as a Middlesbrough fan from the Middlesbrough camp because you were the club who were wronged and then had that hangover hanging over you for the whole heartbreak in the playoff final. You know, it's just about as disastrous an end to the season as could possibly be. But despite selling Hayden Hackney, Championship Player of the Year last season, you've made some very, very good signings at Middlesbrough. And I think after those relegated sides, I think a lot of people, myself included, would be looking at Middlesbrough and going, fancy them for those top two automatic spots.

19:36How is the Middlesbrough fan base approaching this season? Yeah, it's very much like that. I'd like to think that most fans aren't thinking about Spygate at all. When I left Wembley that day, I just thought, well, we've missed our chance at autos, we've missed our chance in the semis, we've missed our chance in the final. We can't say fairer than that. And I think that everyone has moved on quite well. Hackney, the fact that Hackney was sold nice and early, I think is really big because we all saw the scenes at Wembley with him in tears. We all knew he was going to be leaving. So yeah, there's some really, really interesting signings.

20:06I also think it's a very gutsy transfer window. I've not seen, maybe it's because it's 150th year anniversary, but I've not seen this from Steve Gibson in a long time. In that, where were the problems last season? Like, well, our goalkeeper made quite a few mistakes. So let's replace him with a player who was Bristol City's, I think he was Bristol City's player of the season last year, Radic Vitek in goal. Up front, we weren't taking enough ball chances. and watching the Millwall game in particular and the first Southampton leg as well. Chance after chance after chance and none of them go in. So you replace them with a player who's got 11 goals in a relegated side in Will Lancashire last year.

20:41£10 million going up to potentially 20 mil if Borough promoted. I think that it's not the worst business. It's very, yeah, gutsy business. I've seen so often kind of a bit of a scattergun approach to transfer windows and bringing a young player here, a young player there, and you don't know what their position in the squad is going to be. Whereas this feels like you've got Vitek, who will go straight and goal. Lancashire will go straight up front. And Sebastian Berhalter, who looks like a great bit of business to replace Hackney, he's come from the MLS. Set-piece specialist. And we've seen that already in the friendlies and in the game against Wrexham, putting in crosses.

21:16Ford, Lancashire was an aerial threat. It just feels like those three players in particular feel very focused and very, yeah, to come in and be a first-team star immediately. Gregor thoughts on those two sides

21:28Gregor Robertson: yeah we thought you mentioned Kim Helberg I mean I think he Borough last season played some of the most exciting football I've seen in the championship for years and years so incisive and fast and penetrative like Hayden Hackney was a big part of that so how much that loss will be felt only time will tell and the other question Mark I have as Joe just alluded to there they lost a lot of the big games high pressure games so you think of even the Coventry game when they really had the wind in their sails and you thought this is it Coventry are going to be knocked off the perch they lost that and had a bit of a dip they lost the big games at the end of the season so those high pressure games haven't gone their way but still I think Helberg is really really exciting like one of the most exciting coaches outside the Premier League so I agree they've done some good business and there's still a lot of really good players I thought Milanda was like a Rolls-Royce at the back last season.

22:26Gregor Robertson: I think Aidan Morris is one of the most underrated. He was kind of a partner to Aidan Hackney. He's one of the most underrated players in the league. Tommy Conway is a handful up front. So, yeah. I'm sold. I'm putting a tenner on Middlesbrough for automatic promotion. You two have convinced me. It's a done deal. A lot of people have them as favourites. Or certainly a team that will be challenging for the automatics. It certainly feels at this stage, listening to you and doing the research before this, that we keep coming back to, you know, there's two weeks to go and there's things hanging over clubs and we'll come back to Southampton in that theme as well.

22:59But Middlethrough feel the most settled and sorted right now. Before kick-off, they feel sorted.

23:05Gregor Robertson: Yeah, and one other thing I would say is, I may be slightly disagreeing. All these guys know their clubs better than me. I still think the Spygates could be a bit of an albatross for Southampton. I think the weight of the animosity they're going to feel throughout the season, and there's still actually, obviously, an FA charge hanging over Tonda Eckhart I'm not sure how that's going to, it's true that players have come back, Kyle Aaron's come back, goalkeepers come back, so you get the sense that, because there was a lot of anger I think amongst the playing squad actually, their chance at the promotion being torpedoed so that suggests that they're willing to put that into the background and move forward together but I think they're going to experience a lot of hatred really and I think Middlesbrough possibly will be able to use it as more of a sort of unifying motivational sort of tool so you know Joe says that there's going to be no thought about that moving forward but it was some experience to go through and there's still a core of the players there I think the thing could affect the two teams differently Thoughts on that from a Southampton point of view Yeah again not to leave the point too much about this we'll spy when we want which we made a big deal about last weekend But to your point, Greg, if the fans are going to sing that every game, then it's going to be very tough for the team to move on.

24:28They're going to be reminded of it all the time. And it will be different, isn't it? It's all well and good in a League Cup game against Colchester earlier in the season against a League Two side. But then when you're playing, they've got Watford away on the opening Sunday, in the opening day of the season, when they go to these grounds that are bigger, raucous atmospheres, and they're going, boo, cheats, cheats, all the time, all the time.

24:48Gregor Robertson: And when does Eckert stop getting asked questions about it? whenever there's clarity on the FA charge, which doesn't seem to be happening in the immediate future. You asked him, didn't you, in the press conference about the chance and stuff, and he seemed already like he's bored of it. And I'm like, mate, it ain't going anywhere. And you understand why they're bored of it, but it's this weird contrast between, they obviously say they want to move on, but a lot of the narrative, whether it's from fans or the fact that the charges are still, the FA investigation is still going on, it's really, really tough for them to move on.

25:23It's very small sample size. They didn't play particularly well against Colchester, especially in the first half. They really relied on Daniel Peretz in goal. He's one of the players they somehow managed to keep hold of. And again, small sample size, but I don't think in the playoffs against Middlesbrough, once this whole Spygate thing had come out, the Saints played particularly well either, certainly not as well as they played under Ecker up to that point. So yeah, I think you could certainly make a case that Spygates affected them negatively on the pitch. Do you think he should still be the manager?

25:52No, I don't. I think, look, that famous picture of the intern peering around the tree, or not even peering around the tree, it was ridiculous, wasn't it? As comical as that looks, that picture, and football clubs have done worse things in history, but as we say, it was blatant cheating. It's in the rules. You cannot do what Southampton did, and they did it. and I think that there just should have been more significant ramifications. Maybe something else come out in this FA investigation but from the facts we know right now, I think, yeah, at least the head coach should have gone. Do you think, is there a world in which until he is not with the club anymore, whenever that might be, after promotion to the Premier League or whatever, this will always be, I think it probably will be, won't it?

26:39This will always be attached to Southampton now as long as Tonda Eckhart is the manager. Yeah, yeah, well he's the manager for sure obviously time heals all and if there's a world where the FA charge gets done and he gets whatever and the club gets whatever punishment they do that will then be the chance to draw a line under it but it was one of the darkest days certainly the darkest day I can remember as a Southampton fan and that's for a team that's been in administration in the not too distant past so yeah this is certainly going to linger for months if not years

27:13Gregor Robertson: What we should say as well is that if they do manage to put a line under it and as well overcome a four-point deduction, which we've already mentioned, and win promotion, it would be an incredible achievement. It would be. I mean, they've got a great squad, so they still have, you know, Tom Fellows, Finozaz, Leo Sienza, Archer, Howard Bellis, Yander, Flintowns, like great squad to the level. So they should be challenging and they should overcome the four-point deduction, but there's a lot of baggage. Yeah. Let's broaden it out then and let's talk about some of the other teams, maybe some of the outside chances that we've mentioned five of the big teams there.

27:45I think teams that people will be expecting to be near the top and making the headlines one way or another. Who have we got as kind of intrigue, interested teams? Joe, as I keep mentioning, coming back to your piece that you can read on the Times website, what are the teams, just very quickly, just to mention a few to kick us off, that you've got as a kind of playoff shout, outside chances that you're interested in? Yeah, so I've seen quite a few people tipping these now to be right up there. Norwich for me, some interesting signings. Andre Brooks is a fun signing that happened. Right at the start of the window, it showed that there's some intent there to spend quite big.

28:20And also under Philippe Clermont last season, the job he did to overcome Liam Manning's tough start there. I think there were points won under him, I think there were top five in the league last season. So I think feet under the table now, you can see that they have a much more settled team now. And you can see them being right up there as well. And then you can't write off Millwall either. because they did finish third last season. It's easy to forget that, I think, because obviously the Spygate drama took over the playoffs. But yeah, Millwall did finish third last season and they've got a team there that are very efficient.

28:56They've bolstered it a little bit with depth, probably not so much with improvements, but definitely with depth. And Alex Neal is a manager that knows how to get out of this division and has done it before. And then you've also got Wrexham and Birmingham and those are the other two that will always be up there. But they've definitely had more understated transfer windows this summer compared to last time. Kip? We've got an eye on Swansea City. So because they've signed Ross Stewart, is that what? Yeah, well, one of the few players that has moved on from Southampton. They've signed Ross Stewart.

29:27They've partnered with James Tan Analytics, which is Tiny Bloom's company, which seems to be a sensible thing to do if you look at the Hearts or Brighton in recent seasons. Intriguing transfer window, young-ish signings, Joseph Apoku, Musio, Thiago Parente, not loads of EFL experience there. But again, with Jamestown Analytics, you probably think they know what they're doing. And I think Vito Matos is a really interesting head coach as well. And somebody could push them up the table. I do think as well, I'm sorry, Tom, if we go stay out west, but coming east slightly. Bristol City's worth a shout as well.

30:07Why, Kit? Why? Why Bristol City? Is it because they took the best manager in League One last season? Go on, tell me why. Well, he did have a fantastic year, didn't he, Michael? Skibala. How many points is it? 103. Thank you for mentioning it. 103 points of Lincoln. They've been in the Championship for a long time, Bristol City, kind of in mid-table. But I think some of the players they've signed, again, it feels quite simple in their recruitment strategy. They've signed two of the best goal scorers in League One last year, Don Ballard and Lauren Toilage from Orient and Plymouth. Skibala as well.

30:40Sorry to mention him again. Also proven in League One. So, yeah, there's certainly, again, with the eight teams as well, or the third to eight making the playoffs, certainly one to watch. Big pressure on Michael Scabala. Big pressure if you go to these big clubs, these big moves. Gregor, thoughts on the outsiders? This bigger playoff pool that we've got now, six teams can make the playoffs this season.

31:04Gregor Robertson: They double down on Norwich. I mean, the turnaround under Philippe Clement. We should say as well, I think the stats were, if the season had just kept going, Norwich would definitely have made the playoffs and might have even just carried on going to the automatics, the form they were in at the end of the season. But weren't they beat by Hull on the final day, which got Hull up into it? Yeah, it's true. Other than that. They're responsible for it. I haven't seen what they made the Champions League. The place was toxic. I mean, I think it was seven home games in a row or something. They had nine points after 16 games.

31:34Gregor Robertson: But they've devastated Ali Ahmed, who had an incredible impact after joining from Toronto in January. He did his ACL last week. So that's a big blow for them. But they've still got Mo Toure, if he can stay fit. Jovan McCamma, as well, you know very well. A player with one of the highest ceilings maybe in the league, I would say. Already been linked with a move to Leeds, even after an injury hit season with Norwich. He's got all the ingredients to be a top championship player. Paris Magoma, Anisben Slamani, Schwartu, Keller Fisher, the right-back's brilliant. so many players just kind of took a huge step forward when he arrived and he's got such authority like it was just you know even the way he handled John Sargent's kind of desire to leave was just well this is my way or the highway this is it and he just completely sidelined them and I think they could challenge for automatics actually interesting there's a few clubs like that who even when we come down to League 1 and League 2 that ended last season really well and that kind of makes you think that they're just going to continue.

32:39Gregor Robertson: It doesn't always work that way, but the turnaround was so remarkable that you do feel that Norwich will be up there this year. Yeah, yeah, really interesting. I'm interested in what QPR do now that they've signed Dennis Sirkin last night. Did you see that? Yeah. What a bloody signing that is from Sunderland. Yeah, great signing. They've got a lot. Roman Burrell and Kony up front, a great duo. Lots of exciting players, Kwame Poku, if he can be fit this season. Karamoko Dembele, Koki Saito Ryan Coley who's like got such swagger saw him at West Ham in AFC Cup last season he was brilliant Ilias Chair they've got some great Piers Charles in goal as well this season as well which is a great man city on loan like they were just so weird last season they're always weird aren't they they're always like I remember doing pieces in the past where they're like mid-table with like scored the highest number of goals and conceded the highest number of goals like that's the way that QPR seem to be and you know one week they're brilliant the next week they're woeful and that kind of continued under Julian Stéphane.

33:39Gregor Robertson: So, you know, I like the business they've done and I like their squads, but you don't really know what you're going to get. No, no, no. Derek Lamptey is another one. Yeah, yeah, really interesting. I'm interested to see as well what West Brom do with James Morrison as manager because what a job he did in keeping them up last season. Remember, they had that points deduction right at the end of the season, that quite harsh EFL charge for financial irregularities that was like in extremity pennies that they viewed it as. Really talented coach, clearly. one of their own etc etc I actually ended up watching last weekend their win in the league cup against Rotherham Jimmy J Morgan a young player that they've got looks quite tasty Chelsea yeah from Chelsea playing it playing it through the lines look really intricate stuff I'm not saying that they're going to like blast it all the way to the top because I don't think they're playing squad strong enough don't think they've necessarily made enough signings but I think they could be interested so let's wrap up the championship then brace myself for this bit who are we worried about at the bottom of the table Shall we just start with you guys?

34:37Gregor Robertson: I just say a little prayer Shall we? Over to you Tom Shall we just say a little prayer? Look It was an amazing season And I'm going into this one With deluded positivity I think we'll be alright I think we're going to survive I think Lincoln City are going to survive Despite the fact As Kit Sheppard mentioned We lost our manager Michael Skubala Basically even before the season had finished He moved to Bristol City Very interesting for listeners and viewers Who maybe haven't spotted though His two assistants have been made Joint managers which could be the most inspired move in the history of football could also be a car crash, let's be honest.

35:09I think a lot of people are looking at it going, that's a bit naff, what are you doing that for? But listen, everyone at the club feels that keeping the squad together, momentum from last season, we have largely kept the squad together. However, last week we sold Jack Moylan, our best player probably, most creative player, to Cardiff for around£5 million, a club record, hugely exciting. but it's not great on paper to lose your manager and your star player. Kit, you look like you've got thoughts. Well, we should say first of all that Lincoln, due respect Tom, probably shouldn't be here at all. Like being in a championship is an amazing...

35:44That's the talk we want. Pin it on the dressing room wall. Kit Shepard, you shouldn't be here. In the sense that they've defined the odds already. Why can't they keep doing it? Yeah. And I think Michael Scobal did a brilliant job last year. I don't think anyone would have said he was the sole reason for their success. A really smartly run club from above and below him. Yeah. This joint head coaches thing, I might come to Gregor as the former pro, just feels really interesting. No one ever does it. They've done it for a very long time. Gregor, why don't teams do this? What would it be like in a dressing room when you've got two people?

36:22Don't say because it always ends in disaster.

36:24Gregor Robertson: Yeah. Because it always ends in disaster. Look, they're both... I know Chris Cohen. He's a really, really good guy and he's a well-respected coach. And Tom Shaw's someone who played against during my career as well. And he's made a good career as a coach as well. I think they've both been an important part of the journey. But it's just a different role being a... Luke Scobal wasn't your typical manager. It was a team effort. It was, yeah. At games, all three of them would be on the touchline at different points. They would defer to them. This is the idea that they were part of very much the core reason for promotion as much.

37:03And by all accounts, he would have taken them with him to Bristol City.

37:07Gregor Robertson: And he has a background as a teacher. He's a far cry from your authoritarian manager. He's all collaborative. And so they'll try and continue that. But the dynamic will change. So I have my reservations about that decision. I should say that. Put it on the dressing room wall. Come on, keep it going. This is what I want. This is what I want. like assistants often can take over at well-run clubs and I think that if there's ever a club in the championship that you can see is punched above their weight because they're so well-run it is Lincoln so I think that maybe slightly disagreeing That's far too complimentary Joe That won't go on the dresser Cool and has experience like he was part of Nathan Jones' backroom team Southampton and Luton I believe as well so like you know he knows the level and he played there for a long time with Nottingham Forest but it's bold like what else would that's the way you want it to be if you're linking absolutely I love it and I think a lot of fans are enjoying it as well the fact that all these season previews are coming out listed bottom in everyone's prediction tables it's fantastic that's exactly where we like it I think we'll always give everyone a game and like the home games will be class we're talking about atmosphere they'll be amazing every single home game will be a party and I think every away end will make a party as well Joe in your piece give me some reasons for hope then who else is worrying you near the bottom of the championship table um yes Blackburn for me is not in a great position um which is a shame because I love Tony Morbury as a as a teesider and former borough captain great interview with him on the Times website now very good yeah um but yeah they're just they've not done very much business um there's always something going on behind the scenes there with the ownership and and yeah that it worries me kind of not replacing players that have left at the end of their contracts things like that and then Bolton in a similar position but obviously as a team that's just come up um there Mario Cosa-Dubri was a fantastic uh loanee for them last season um you wonder whether they can replace his contributions I saw that a couple of days ago they signed Ryan Hardy which isn't a terrible idea um he has shown form in this division with Plymouth um to to score double figures but he hasn't I think last season or the season before um he hasn't had um kind of a starting in place anywhere so you wonder whether he can have the same effect um so yeah i think that those two clubs probably aren't in as good a position as lincoln but that's only two there's three relegations i need one more from anyone else anyone got another one kit i got you some wild cards tom yeah okay go on i like that we need a wild card we need a like three so these teams finished quite half the table last season to be in the relegation battle i just got mine derby after last week's news.

39:44I mean, John Eustis is a really good head coach. Yeah, finished eighth last season, so it'd be a big old drop. But that Turkel Shaik takeover falling through this week seemed to really take the club by surprise. And so you'd think that at least start making plans for Tav, his money being a factor in the club. So just have an eye on them, see what kind of impact that has. and then everyone's favourite basket case Watford they've got a new Italian manager funny that he's managed 10 clubs since 2014 which fits with Watford yeah well he's the 24th amazing manager or head coach Watford have had since 2012 it never stops being interesting that stat when you read it out loud it never stops amazing so yeah who knows what's going to happen with them it can work out amazingly the manager Alessio Dionisi had some success in Italy clubs like Empoli and Sassuolo he did well Palermo not so much so it feels like it could go either way it could be one that goes very wrong I think

40:54Gregor Robertson: I think five of their six signings are from Udinese who was obviously the club that was owned where did they get that from and they sold Ciac Vittazzi who we love to Udinese yes very good player which is you know he's a great player so So, yeah, still some unease there. They could be anything. There's still some good players. Plus on Charlton, they had a bit of a free fall last season towards the bottom of the table. Don't know if they gave Lincoln a bit of hope. I don't know. I just think that Nathan Jones' zeal always gives them hope. And actually, they've got some not bad attacking options.

41:30Gregor Robertson: Tyrese Campbell, Miles Labour, Rob Apter, Kelman. I think even if just one of them has a good season, because goals are their biggest issue. I think if one of them has a good season, and they've got Carlin Grant from West Brom, who's got a point to prove probably. Mellan Ek-Chali from Luton as well. So, yeah, they finished 19th last season. I think they'll be okay. I think Cardiff need to sign some players. Yeah, really. I think Cardiff will be quite good. I think Cardiff had that about them last season in League One where they were deliberately playing like we're a championship team. Brian Barry Murphy likes to play possession football, move the ball around.

42:08But now they're in the championship. I know, but I think they'll want to show that. And I'm really excited, as much as I was heartbroken to see him leave, to see Jack Moylan in the championship, in that team, by all accounts, it was that relationship, the Irish connection with Brian Barry Murphy who got him that move. I agree they could do with some bolstering, but I think they'll be all right. I think Cardiff might do quite well.

42:27Gregor Robertson: That's a big step. I mean, I agree. I like Brian Barry Murphy. He was a smart, quite brave appointment. Manchester City's elite development squad background been at Rochdale in the past play good football they'll try and do it again I think they played 13 homegrown players last season so they've got a really good academy they've got the Colwell brothers Ruben and Joel Salish up front I really like Joel Began the left back Dylan Lawler great centre half but like none of them have played really played in the league before maybe a bit towards the end of their demise but in that division but they're just they never sign any players they need to sign some players they sign Trot the goalkeeper permanently Moylan but no one else they've got a few experienced players like Callum Robinson Chris Willett Callum Chambers probably have a point to prove as well but they need to do some business Final note then to wrap up this bumper opening half on the championship Arlington City getting relegated Gregor?

43:28No No you're supposed to say yes you're supposed to say yes no you don't actually believe that I don't think they will Joe? I'm saying yes, but not Barton. Yes. Thank you, Kit. Put it on the dressing room wall. Kit Shepard, Joe Harsin, Lincoln are getting relegated. Chris and Tom, you can do this. I can't wait. Already excited. Time to take a quick break. I was going to ask a quiz question about who finished top of League 1 last season with 103 points, but we've already established that. We'll be back just after this.

44:32Well, it's easier than you think. welcome back to the game football podcast from the times and sunday times this is our efl season preview show with me tom clark i've got joe harston kit shepherd and gregor robertson with me in the studio it's time to look at league one and league two we've not left ourselves loads of time so if you've got views on either the championship or league one get in touch with me me and gregor will be back after the opening weekend with another show get in touch with me with your thoughts tom.clark at the times.co.uk but let's have a look at league one promotion contenders and it is hard to look past leicester city isn't it gregor that big team big club bristle martin loads of signings i have got a feeling it's going to be chaos and isn't going to work but i could be completely naive with that one what do you think i mean they've just got some incredible individual players they have they've got some serious talent but mavi didi bobby de cordova

45:29Gregor Robertson: Reid, 150 Premier League games not so long ago. Oliver Skip was 20 million quid not so long ago. Wout Fesh, the centre half. Tommy Watson signing him on loan from Brighton, who scored the winning goal in the Championship League final. Absolutely ludicrous signing. In 2025 for Sunland. Brilliant, brilliant signing, yeah. Connor Chaplin and Wes Burns, slightly range, but you can see the logic behind it. They were promoted with Ipswich and good players to the level Russell Martin I'm sort of conflicted about his reputation has taken a battering absolute hammering at Rangers if you think about the turn away from Pep's football position heavy building from the back all that kind of stuff Russell Martin is like the caricature of this guy that's willing to die on the hill because of what happened at Southampton in the Premier League and then what happened at Rangers too it was like toxic so I actually think it's a good move for him and it could be good for Leicester in that if he's got the best resources his team will dominate games and they'll win a lot of them I don't know what the fans are going to think about because they actually didn't take that well to Enzo Maresca if you think about when they were last when they were down in the championship and they dominated the league but they weren't overly enamoured by it so that's interesting but I think they have to be up there because they've got some areas that they need to strengthen centre half particular but they've got some incredible players for the level Kit just asking on Russell Martin Greg I mentioned there managing at Southampton that was kind of his successful spell until he got him into the Premier League and stuck with my way or the I way and that's when we first saw the kind of strength of his character and personality should we say will he be a success at League One level?

47:20I think so I think if there's a place where that possession hoarding style is going to work it's with a there's one of the strongest teams on paper we've seen in the third tier for a while you think they'll dominate the ball and and and that'll really suit a russell martin style team i think in his defense with his previous jobs look at rangers at the moment or since since he left them exactly really improved even southampton that that whole season in the premier league was a was a disaster the 24-25 season and martin was was It's gone by December, so he wasn't the only problem at those two clubs.

47:58So I think, yeah, I'd be cautiously optimistic for a Russell Martin Leicester team. And I think, again, as a fan of Southampton, who were a big club in League One in the not-too-distant past, there's something to be said for a restorative season in the third tier for a club of that size if you get promoted quickly. Big pressure, though. Big pressure.

48:18Gregor Robertson: I just think you can coach. You can get the players on board. I'm not sure you can do that with a fan base. That's been an issue for them. It was a major issue at Rangers. So that has to happen for it to be a successful season. I think they need a good start. They will want that swagger as well though. Birmingham City did it a few years ago where all the chat from all their players and they were a championship team in League One. Every week they were like, yeah, yeah, we're just going to win this league and then we'll get back to the championship where we're supposed to be. I don't know if that works all the time and I don't know whether there's a bit more chaos around Leicester.

48:51I'll be really interested. Sheffield Wednesday we're all I mean come on for the love of God please let them have a good season Barry's back Barry Bannon is back in terms of people pulling the strings at League One level Barry Bannon in League One could be the Jarrod Bowen of the Championship couldn't it really I mean they've got Louis Barry in front of him as well gives them a chance doesn't it

49:13Gregor Robertson: Harry Gray yeah brother Varche another one of the dynasty on loan from Leeds he had a good spell at Rotherham last season on loan I think he's still only 17 but he's got great potential. Mason Burstow from Hulls, he had a good loan at Bolton last season. Yes, he did. Santos from Swansea, and he knows the league very well from several years with Bolton. Billy Mitchell from Millwalls, like a good experienced player. I think they've done some good business and there's great positivity now. Simon Wilson, they brought in as director of football from Stockport. He's got a really good reputation. It feels like it's a new era, new owners, everything, although it was so shambolic like last year and they're just happy the club survived.

49:53Gregor Robertson: I think you can just consign that to the past. Everyone's looking to the future, looking forward now and the team they have looks good. In terms of going all the way and going for promotions, it still feels quite a leap in my opinion. I know they've dropped down in division and got all the chaos is hopefully behind them. They made loads of signings. Is it still a lot to go from a team that's losing every week to suddenly going to have to win most weeks? Yeah, although there are a lot of changes. They've still got some restrictions from the EFL, I think, and the kind of business they can do. Henrik Pedersen, the manager, navigated everything that went on last season brilliantly.

50:32Gregor Robertson: How he can win games week after week in League One, there's a big question mark about that. If he doesn't start well, it wouldn't be that much of a shock to see him move on. So there are question marks, gets right, but I think they've made some great signings. Outsiders then for promotion, who could do a Lincoln City? Another Gratua just mentioned there. I'm interested in what Leighton Orient do. Richie Wellens, after those comments last season, at the end of the season, I mean, he sounded like he was trying to get sacked throwing the entire playing squad under the bus. They've made some really interesting signings.

51:05Yes, they've lost Don Ballard. Jace Cabia, someone we were excited about in League Two, is the kind of incremental signing. You know, Don Ballard has gone to Bristol City in the Championship. Jace Cabia comes from League Two into League One. They've made some good, solid signings in defence as well. It feels like a kind of Ritchie Wellens final fling here. I'm going all out. I'm going in. It could work really well. It could be sacked by November. I'm interested in them. I'm really interested in how MK Dons might do. Paul Warn, the definitive we talk about these cliches of done it at the level type thing.

51:35This guy knows how to get out of League One. Charlie Good from Stevenage is a really good signing at centre-back. He was fantastic in every game that I saw. I think he made it into the League One team of the year. Really, really impressive. So they're the two I'd be interested in outsiders. Gregor, thoughts?

51:51Gregor Robertson: Yeah, definitely with them. Like Luton as well. Luton will be right up there. It took a while for Jack Wilshere to get them going, but they really did at the end. They missed the playoffs by a point. They won the EFL Trophy. Casey Palmer made a huge difference coming in January in the same time permanently. I think he scored eight goals in 20 League One games. He's kind of too good for League One. And seeing a couple of young strikers from West Ham. They're part of their kind of FA Cup, FA Youth Cup winning team in 2023. They've got Callum Marshall, Gideon Kodua. Be interesting to see how they do.

52:29Gregor Robertson: Still got some really good players to the level. If you think about Hakeem Adolphin, Josh Keely's in goals still, William Walsh, Jordan Clark. Like, I think that's another one of these teams and actually I'll throw in Plymouth for the same reason. Such a turnaround last season, so much momentum, so much positivity some good transfer business they're going to be in the mix I think for Automatics Big expectation on both of those sides though worrying you in League 1? Worrying quite a few I mean Burton Albion you have to say I think without Gary Boyer they would have been relegated twice the job he's done is incredible they lost like 8 million in their last financial accounts owners are trying to sell the club it's been a bit of a disaster lost a lot of players I think Wimbledon are always just kind of struggling to stay Wimbledon are mine they just feel like they're standing still completely I saw them at the end of last season and you don't want to take everything in and things can change but they just look so passive in the way that they play and it feels like they're just kind of clinging on to a league that is becoming increasingly competitive all the way down you're getting big clubs and actually quite big money you know I mentioned some of those Leighton Orients you know Leighton Orient selling players for millions of pounds and buying players reportedly for high six figures, low millions of pounds.

53:51It's such a tough league, League One.

53:53Gregor Robertson: Yeah, and for the same reason, I would even say Peterborough. They were one of the clubs who were seen as really smart and intelligent. They traded players. They got some rough diamonds from non-league, polished them up, sold them on. Everyone does that now. And a lot of teams do it better. And actually, there are teams who are willing to commit more money to doing it than Darren McAnthony seems to be at the moment. so I feel like Luke Williams got a bit of a bounce last season but then they faded again I think their models are starting to crumble a little bit I think Notts County coming up like they're always interesting the Reeds brothers data led recruitment you know they'll do it their way but they sold Alessandro Jata to Casa Pia in the Portuguese top flight he scored a goal every other game for them for the past two and a half years he's their main main man and no one's really replaced them so I'd be slightly unsure about them so there are a few there are a few I'd even say Barnsley possibly really interesting Daniel Stendhal's back in the dugout but the fans have had enough of them as well the owners in terms of their kind of their trading model signing kids all the time this conveyor belt so a bit of toxicity in the stands there at Oakwell too yeah really interesting let's move into League 2 and it's the question guys that everyone's been asking for years and years now it feels like a long long time especially for Salford City fans can they do it is it their year is it finally their year you know they were the Wrexham before Wrexham but where Wrexham are now uh Gary Neville in the class of 92 really interesting managerial appointment this one isn't it Peter uh Klamovsky former assistant to Ange Postakoglu has gone in at Salford City we've got an interview with him uh by Dominic Akiboy that is in the Times pages in the coming days.

55:38Really interesting quote. I said to Dominic, I was like, make sure you ask him, you know, the and quote, make sure you ask him. He's delivered. He's delivered, old Peter delivered. He said, look, why not? We'll win something in the first season. There you go. I mean, he's walked in and gone, let's have it. Let's go for it. Klaxon. It's all geared up for them, isn't it though? You know, they've got a new kit. They've gone back to the old orange that Salford used to wear. Everything is like geared towards this. They've made some interesting signings.

56:07Gregor Robertson: interesting is one word I mean they've chucked an enormous amount of money at it this summer I always use interesting when I mean they've spent a load of money and it might not pay off that's the capsule that's the capsule Macaulay Langstaff from Millwall my goodness yeah I mean the money he's reportedly earning is extraordinary scored a bucket load of goals from Notts County at this level obviously didn't quite do it for Millwall but you know that's a big statement Luke Molyneux from Doncaster great brilliant creative player possibly one of the best in the league Joe Powell classy midfielder from Rotherham and they've still got Woodburn, Udo and Mai, Grant like yeah I feel a bit sorry for Carl Robinson, you know what the job is he got all the way to the playoff final last year and Klamovsky's another one of these they've kind of moved from one end of the spectrum to the next this all for donors in terms of hiring the managers they've gone for kind of former Manchester United youth coaches to kind of someone who's got a lot of experience in the EFL and now someone who has an association with Ange Bostokoglu and they want to dominate every game in League 2 it's not always that easy What about outsiders then?

57:23I'm interested to see how Rochdale do back in the Football League after not too long a break and also this is the point in the show where I always get in another mention of a former Lincoln City manager of the Cowleys at Colchester. They've brought back Sean Raggett, another former Lincoln player. It's a final throw of the dice for the Cowleys at Colchester. They could be sacked by October, November or they could be in the playoffs. Greg, other outsiders that you've got here on?

57:46Gregor Robertson: I don't know if they're outsiders but I would say Bristol Rovers undoubtedly are one of the favourites. Beyond outsiders then, yeah. Okay, yeah. Grimsby as well? Always got to get his former team in there, make sure he gets that gift basket at Christmas from the Grimsby supporters. We mentioned with Swansea, the Jamestown Analytics Association, Grimsby are the team in League 2. They only have one team in each league, Tony Bloom's data model. And they've signed players from Kidderminster, Bray Wanderers, Sutton United, Brentford's B, that's very on brand. They've also signed Andy Cook permanently, which is a big, more obvious, but important signing for them.

58:26Gregor Robertson: yes they lost Jays Cabia but I think their cup exploits last season were brilliant were a brilliant story obviously beat Manchester United at home but it kind of derailed them a bit and they had a slump around Christmas I think without that they would have possibly been promoted last season I think they're one of the best teams in the league Worried York City it's not been an ideal summer has it for York City after all that drama of promotion no I mean change of manager and the new manager incredibly unpopular with the fans already and the season's not even kicked off yet. Yes, sacked Stuart Maynard who won 108 points and won promotion in that dramatic fashion in the last season.

59:05Gregor Robertson: Hired Scott Lindsay, who's Crawley, Tame Kedon's back to Crawley and not had much success since the initial success at Crawley. And as you say, he had some fairly caustic chance in his direction in his first game. In friendlies, in pre-season friendlies, you're already digging out the new manager. Like, what a world we live in. absolutely cracks the one thing I would say about York and Rochdale is that York won 108 points Rochdale won 106 points they've both changed the manager Jimmy McNulty's gone to Stockport Ian Watson's coming from South Shields that's the one question mark but you know teams who do really really well like that in the National League tend to do well in League 2 they're too good for the National League and you have to be really bad to be relegated from League 2 so it's not a big leap it's not as big a leap for a team who've been that good in the National League so I think both of them will be fine in fact there could be playoff challenges interesting it just depends the managerial change is the one kind of wild card Accrington Stanley always a worry about Accrington Stanley and Newport as well after the way they finished the season last season let's finish with just a general question about the return of the Football League three of us in here support teams in the Football League what are we most excited about or interested in this season from a fan point of view I am going to be really interested being in with the Lincoln fans when we're 3-0 or 4-0 down against someone.

1:00:26When Will Lancashire, or maybe what the vibes are going to be like at the Riverside at the weekend when we face Middlesbrough and we're 3-0 down at half-time. This is a team we've been unbeaten since November last year. It's a long old run. Got a lot of support and a lot of enthusiasm. I'm excited. Hopefully, Lincoln fans, I'm excited for the chance and support that is still happening when we're 3-0 down or when Jared Bowen kills one in the top corner to break our hearts with a 3-2 winner. That will be very interesting, but I'm also just buzzing that the football's back. I think it's class. Kit?

1:00:56I think I'll steer away from Southampton. We've obviously got an R &M. It could go either way because they were fantastic last season, as you said before. Everything happens. I'm just seeing new managers come through in the EFL, especially young managers when we're talking about League One, some teams that might be up there like Plymouth with Tom Cleverley, Oxford with Aaron Ramsey I don't know how that's going to go but these kind of names that we know more as players now having to go as managers I think that's always a really exciting thing to watch so yeah there are a couple of names but there are plenty as well as all the old guards your Steve Evans I don't know like your David Artel at Grimsby but yeah keeping on the dugouts as well as on the pitch yeah absolutely Joe other than winning the championship with Millsborough I can't tell what are you excited about I'm looking forward to seeing that kind of mid-table take shape because I just think there's teams, especially in the Championship, where you've got sixth down to 16th and I just couldn't order them.

1:01:57Every single team, I think there's been higher spending this year. You've seen teams breaking their transfer records or breaking the transfer record for seasons where they've not had parachute payments. And you're just seeing a few teams like Norwich, like that, and like Middlesbrough, just go like, that's really to give it a go this season. I think seeing that take shape, I think will be really interesting for future seasons as well. With those extra two playoff places up for grabs as well, will make it even more intriguing. right the way to the end. Gregor, final word from you on the return of the Football League.

1:02:23Gregor Robertson: I mean, there are some really intriguing, like as Kit said, individual things, like Steve McLaren, the director of football at Rotherham. Yeah. Alex Bruce is the manager. Alex Bruce is the manager, yeah. Like, even doing research, you know, Colin Kaz and Richards came in last season at Crawley. Yes. Vito Manoni is in goals, brother. 38-year-old former Arsenal in Reading. And like, it's just, that could be really interesting. Crawley are always quite interesting, but that could be, just more broadly, I think the playoff change in the championship is going to be very interesting at the end of the season.

1:02:52Gregor Robertson: Like, I was... I'm a bit of a traditionalist. I think I like that. If something's not broken, don't try and, you know, have to try and fix it. But it will make the end of the season, you know, it will broaden who's a team in 14th with, like, 10 games to go. Still got a chance. Like, so it will be even wilder, I think. And actually, the fact that there's going to have a quarterfinal in the playoffs is going to be... I mean, those games will be wild. one-off game. You know, the playoff games over two legs are notoriously entertaining, particularly second legs, but a one-legged game like that will be wild.

1:03:29Gregor Robertson: So I'm interested to see how that goes, how it affects the sort of end of the season as well. You know what's going to happen with that. A team's going to finish third with about 95 points and they're going to get pipped out of the playoffs by someone who finishes eight from about 60 points. It's so slow. Kit already anticipating Southampton heartbreak again all heavy before the season has even begun. we'll leave it there we'll be wrapping up all the EFL extra action with our special podcast throughout the season and keeping you up to date but do get in touch with me tom.clark at the times.co.uk with your thoughts on your team or players that you've seen but for now thanks to Kit Shepard, Joe Harston and Gregor Robertson for joining me we'll be back next week we'll see you then

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