Transfer latest: Manchester United, Wolves, Villa and Forest

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1:53Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. Chelsea and Manchester City are busy sweating it out at the Club World Cup, but what about their rivals back home? On today's show, we'll catch up on what Manchester United, Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa, Wolves and other clubs have been up to so far this summer and wonder what deals might they have on the horizon. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today, we have the former footballer turned journalist, Gregor Robertson and the reporter who, helpfully for the topics on this show, happens to cover Manchester United, Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa, Wolves and more.

2:25It's Charlotte Dunker. Charlotte, hello. Morning. Nice to hear from you. I mean, great to be hearing you at all. I was having lovely flashbacks to that pre-season show we tried to do with you and Paul Hurst last season where we couldn't hear a single word and we had to abort the whole thing. So this is a serious upgrade. I could hear and see you. You could see me and I was just a mute. So maybe it was for the best that time. But yeah, you can't see me this time, but you can hear me, which is the main thing. That is the main thing. Absolutely. Let's start with Manchester United, making probably one of the more interesting signings of the summer so far with Matthias Cunha coming in from Wolves.

3:00That deal happened quite a while ago and all the talk since then has been about Brian Mbumo and other players that might be coming in. Just give us a kind of overview, a bit of a summary of where we're at with Manchester United at the moment. Yeah, so obviously they moved quickly to get Cunha in, which was an easy deal for them to do because he had a release clause. So they initially tried to, as everyone knows, get out of the terms of that release clause in terms of paying it over five installments, five years rather than three installments over two years. Wolves said no chance. Come back when you meet the agreements of what's in his release clause, which they swiftly did a couple of hours later.

3:36So he became the first summer signing. Like I say, that was an easy one to do. who Ed Woodward historically used to love dealing with players who had release clauses because the negotiation side wasn't really there. He knew what you had to do to get that sort of player. I think Amarin believes that he can mould him into the sort of player that he wants for the team. Omar Barada, the chief exec, came out last week and said he thinks he can have a Cantona-esque impact on the team, which, I mean, if he can, then I think he'll scoop every award that's ever been made, given the impact. Hansen had it at United probably, what was that, like 30 years ago now?

4:15So I think there's obviously lots of excitement around him coming. He's quite versatile, like we saw at Wolves. What I'm interested to see with Cunha is at Wolves, he was the main guy. He was the one. He was the one mile, the best player in that team. And the team adapted to him, whereas he's going to have to adapt to this team because it can't just be the Matthias Cunha show. So he's got a lot of flair. He's got a lot of creativity. He can play well as a number 10, which we know he plays with them two split 10s behind the striker. So that will work well. It's going to be interesting to see how he fits in, but I think he'll fit in better when he has a good strike partner, which is where United are up to at the minute.

4:57Everyone knows that they had that first bid for Mbwemo rejected, which I think was about 45 plus five. Brentford want around 60. United haven't as of yet gone back in with a second bid. That's not to say that they're not interested, that they're not still keen, that they don't still think they could get him. I think there's confidence there that they can. They've also been linked with every striker in the rest of the world in the rest of this time, which isn't too helpful when you cover the club. Just on that topic, Charlotte, you obviously linked those by saying that they're kind of looking for a central striker.

5:31And I mean, for a lot of people, Mbomo doesn't necessarily tick that box. It's the idea that they're going for, but potentially Mbomo having signed Cunha and then might go for a more central striker with obviously links to Victor Gokkierez and things. Yeah, someone told me that once they'd lost out on Liam De Lape, that the focus was then going to be Mbomo. And to me, like you say, they're two very different players because Mbomo's not a natural, he's not a number nine. Yes, he can play there, like Cunha can play there, but he's not an out-and-out striker, which is what Manchester United have been lacking.

6:06so I think it's a case that they could do him and a striker but it depends who that striker is Jocares is obviously being pimped around the whole of Europe by his agent there's clear problems with his team he doesn't want to play for them anymore so I don't know at the minute with his comments and everything that's going on that situation just seems a bit desperate there's also interest from Arsenal Semenyo is someone that they're interested in Eketi, how do you say his name? Eketi K Eka Dike Eka Dike yeah he's also one that's on the list but there's absolutely in no world are they going to sign all four of those forward players because that had cost so much money and it's just not realistic so I think what they're trying to do is Mbuevo seems to me from who I talk to seems to still be the next target for them after Cunha but there doesn't seem to be this push at the minute to get things over the line but I don't think that's just Manchester United if you look across the board there's not there was that flurry of signings at the start especially for the club world cup teams and manchester united took advantage of that to get cooney through could have got emblemo through it if brentford had agreed that cut price deal they didn't but now there seems to be this little bit of lull and maybe we'll see more in july which is when the new financial year opens gives clubs more scope to do different things so i'm expecting more things there maybe another quiet week but yeah they've got absolutely tons of forwards on the list and we'll see where they end up with that but I think they need we know they need a striker look how many goals that Rasmus Hoyland scored last season it was not enough so it's all well and good bringing Cunha in but he needs someone in front of him as well.

7:43Charlotte you sort of referenced there the start of the new financial year and that was going to be my my question to you there how much are Manchester United going to be able to spend because you know it wasn't that long ago Jim Radcliffe was talking about the club going bust at Christmas if he didn't make all these cuts and you know there's the financial picture hasn't been that healthy for a long time but they seem to be making moves. How is this all going to work? Yeah, so we were told that they'd have about 100 million to spend. Net. They've obviously bought, yeah, they've obviously bought Cunha, but I'm not sure at this point whether, you know, because this payments are split over three different installments.

8:19And so the first two would be in the next financial year, the next one will be the year after, whether they're going to knock 20-odd million off that for their finance reasons. But then on top of that, I think the hope is, and the need, is that they've got a list of players that are assets that they want to sell. And obviously in terms of PSR, if you look at Rashford and Garnaccio, for example, they're homegrown talents. So whatever money they make off them, in an ideal world, they'd get between 50 and 60 for Garnaccio and they'd get 40 for Rashford. So that's another 100 million, which would be pure profit.

8:54They then say they could then invest back into the squad. So at the minute, it seems like they're in a situation where they've got this group of players that they want to sell. The problem that they've got is that the buying clubs know they want to sell as well. So if you're a buying club, why are you going to want to pay the first fee that Manchester United ask? And then you've got the players that they want to buy. And it's just balancing that up at the minute, because like you said, Jim Ratcliffe came out back end of last year, wasn't it? It's talking about the dire financial situation. and he's made all these cuts and the latest financial figures that were dropped last week or the week before they basically said we're able to invest because of cuts that we've made staffing and because of this and because of that but part of it boosting that transfer kitty a lot of that is going to be to do with how successful they are at selling which historically in the past decade even 15 years they haven't been very good at that so there's going to have to be a big turn this summer in them getting better at something that historically they've been terrible at.

9:56Charlotte, in terms of some of the players that we're talking about, and even as Gregor says, you know, where's this money coming from? And you've outlined there the ideal situation for Manchester United with sales for Rashford and Garnaccio. But there'll be some Manchester United fans looking at this business and listening to us talk here and going, well, hang on a minute, we need wingbacks, we need fullbacks, we need another midfielder. Like, how does it stack up the prioritisation of forwards and strikers. You know, let's say in a world where they maybe only make £80 million from Garnaccio and Rashford, you're then looking at, okay, do we need forwards then?

10:30And we'll go into another season of Ruben Amorim with this fated 3-4-2-1 formation, and he still hasn't got any wing-backs. I mean, how is that stacking up? Or are they on the list as well? Wing-backs are definitely on the list, but I think if you obviously go back to the beginning of when Amorim took over, defensively there are shambles. I think if you go towards the end of the season, if there was any tiny positives to take, they did start to look a tiny bit more stable. But one thing they couldn't do is they couldn't score any goals. So I think the biggest problem in that team is that they can't score.

11:03So that is the biggest issue that they've got to try and resolve. That's not to say that they think the defence is set and it's great and anything like that. That wing-back's definitely on the shopping list, but there just doesn't seem to be that urgency in the same way that they're just to get a striker in. Maybe they thought Emblema was an easier deal to get done. Because why would they put that bid in in that small transfer window if they didn't think they could get it over the line in that time? So they're trying on that front. Also, historically, number nines are hard to come by, aren't they?

11:33I remember we've sat with people at United for season after season, talking about them negotiating. And Harry Kane was on the table obviously this was years ago, how much money is he going to cost? Actual, proper, proven Premier League goal scorers are going to cost you well over. Look at what Liverpool have supposedly been quoted for ISAC. 200 million, 150, 200 million. Manchester United cannot operate in that ballpark at the minute because like you said, even if they made all the money in the world on those four or five plays they want to sell, they've got to spend all that money then on a striker.

12:09Then where does that leave the rest of the team? like you say, as they're still trying to adapt to Amarim's tactics. So it is a balancing act of where do you spend most of your budget, especially when they've spent£62.5 million on Cunha. So it's going to be interesting to see in the rest of the window what they go for. Yeah, wing-backs are definitely what they... Well, they're crucial to Amarim's system, aren't they? They brought in Patrick Dorgue and we'll see how he gets on in his second season. So Gregor, lots of interesting factors there in Charlotte's analysis. What do you make of Manchester United's plans and targets so far and this idea of what they need to sell to spend where they're heading this summer?

12:46Yeah, I think the first thing to say is that they were never going to be able to complete the overhaul in one transfer window. So they have to prioritise. And Charlotte's right. They were so woefully inadequate up front. And there was a conversation about whether that was partly to do with the system, Amram's system, but it's also to do with a chronic lack of firepower and reliance on Rasmus Hoyland, who I think is another one potentially who could be moved on, if possible, this summer. So even if they can recoup some money from that, then that would be a bonus. So that's the first thing to say.

13:23But what Charlotte was saying about historically how bad they've been at sailing is true, but what's different this year is, as she said, they've got some younger players who still have pretty decent reputations and their relationship with the club has broken down a little bit. And Garnaccio and Rashford are the main figures there. Even Kobe Mino's name keeps coming up sometimes too. And that would be probably a tough one for some supporters to see happen. But they're in a pretty perilous situation in terms of complying with spending rules. And I wouldn't say that's impossible either. so that's the one difference this year Manchester United for so long have been buying players right at their peak for huge money putting them on massive salaries and then like everyone they get sucked into the vortex and there's no resale value at all they're slightly better off in that regard this summer and I think that will give them a bit more wriggle room but they're not going to be able to do everything we could talk about if they can't sign a forward should they turn their focus to wing backs I also love the way Charlotte Abbs is not the only one but everyone talks about it, yeah he's on the list they're on the shopping list that's the kind of that's the lingo at this time of year and I'd love to see these lists they've just got a whiteboard in the recruitment room just working their way from one to the next and seeing how much they are Manchester United have a lot to do that would be a big list it's when they put really obvious people on the list that makes me laugh the one that's on everyone's list we really like Harry Kane no really, I've never heard of that guy what a good find that is I'm not saying that he's obviously on United's list this summer but it's when you talk to people at clubs and they're like yeah really good player it's like yeah I think someone who's watched about three games in their life could probably tell you that Harry Kane, Messi or someone like that's a really good player so I'm not sure he needs to be on anyone's list so they need to hack into some it's easier said than done unknown pool of talent where they can get someone but then the difficulties if they're raw and they need developing.

15:29Look at Hoyland. I think the problem with the striker is they need a proven goalscorer. That's going to cost them loads of money. So it's going to be interesting to see who they end up with, if they end up with anyone. Johnny wrote an interesting piece, didn't he, about the sort of pivot towards more proven Premier League players. And there are clubs like Fulham who've had a track record doing that for a long time. But this is slightly new for United. If they were to go for Cunha and Mbwemo and maybe one or two others, maybe there's some merit in that. we do know that they are really good players at the level in terms of playing for teams that are in the middle class and really excelling and getting numbers that suggest they can make the step up.

16:09I think that there's some merit in that. Charlotte, just finally on United, firstly on Gregor's point about Rasmus Hoyland and Kobi Mainu, just your reaction to that, the idea that they might be moved on this summer. And then also finally, I've got a good pal of mine who's getting slightly bizarrely excited about Manchester United's prospects next season. I think it's mainly because he's just had a new baby and he's slightly sleep deprived. So I just wanted you to give a sense of whether he's right to be excited about Mateus Cunha and the rest of them coming in. And what, you know, it's very, very early stages yet, but what like a good season for Manchester United might be next time around.

16:45Cunha is obviously, he's a really exciting signing because he's a really exciting player. But I think you've seen exciting players go to Manchester, not to like totally dampen his spirits, especially if he's just had a baby. You've seen really exciting talents go to Manchester United in the last 10 years and I don't know, their flair's been dampened a bit and it's not been exciting and they've not fitted in as well. I think he will fit in well there. I think the system will suit him. He played that system at Wolves, so I think he is a signing to get excited about. I would like to reserve my predictions as to how excited he should get until after pre-season tour because I think it'll be interesting to see with a full summer of pre-season with a squad that he wants with his methods.

17:32Obviously, there's no excuses then for him, isn't there? See what they look like after that because this coming in midway through the season, that was a big excuse for him. I'm not saying it wasn't a right excuse. Obviously, if you're chaining the system halfway through a campaign, it's always going to be teething problems. But obviously, progress for Manchester United would be not finishing just above the relegation zone. It would be finishing in a European place, wouldn't it? That's the minimum requirement, expectation for this club is to finish within the European places. Probably not the Conference League, although they'd take that given the season they had last season and ideally win a trophy, League Cup, FA Cup, something like that.

18:13That would work out to be a good season for them in Amram's second season. On the other two players, Hoyland, And obviously if someone came in with a great fee for him and offered to take them off his hands, I think they'd accept it. But I think there's this sort of reluctance in that they genuinely think that he's a better player than what everyone's seen. So I think there's a hope that maybe they can polish him over the summer and that we're going to see a Hoyland 2.0 next season. From what I've seen of him live, I'm not too sure about that. And when you hear the stories about how he got to United and who was interested in before and who he was linked with.

18:51I'm not sure if this level's just a bit too much for him. So he's definitely going to be an interesting one, but whether or not he stays or goes, they still need someone else. Who else were we talking about? Could it be mine who was the other one I wanted to know about? Yeah, he was obviously mentioned because of PSR reasons initially, because he's another one who's obviously homegrown talent, but then he's not featured as much under Amarim as he did under Eric Ten Hag. So I think he's another one where someone said to me, basically, the whole team is up for sale in inverted commas, because if someone came in with the right offer for them, they would listen to it.

19:27And if the player wanted to go, it's like if Fernandes had turned around to United and said, I actually really want to go to Saudi and they were offering 150 million, they would have had to have let him go because what's the point in keeping a player who doesn't want to be there, wants to go somewhere else when all that money's on the table? so I think Maynard, if the right offer came in and he was keen to go they would listen to it but can you imagine the world where they sell Rashford, Garnaccio Garnaccio, Maynard, Sancho Anthony, Hoyland possibly Andrea Narner although it looks like he's staying, he's talking seven, eight players there they'll have loads of money much to the delight of the owners, it'll be interesting to see where that money goes so yeah, I just think It's like you said before, Gregor, it's not a one window fixes all the problems.

20:18All those players on that list, would you be surprised if all of them go in the next two to three windows? No, I'd be surprised if all of them left this window because the rebuilding job would be absolutely massive. But the ones that they definitely want to go are Rashford, Sancho, Anthony, and then Garnaccio, who put some nice fuel on the flames yesterday by putting a picture of himself in an Aston Villa shirt on his Instagram page. So that's gone down really well with lots of people. With Rashford on the back, we should say. It was Rashford on the back. Maybe it was a gift, you know? Honestly, these kids have lots more to sort out at Manchester United this summer.

20:59Now, we talked a lot about Matthias Cunha there, Charlotte. I wanted to talk about his former club, Wolves, Obviously, losing him and Ryan Aitnori going to Manchester City as well. Two huge players for them last season. Where do they stand? They brought in Fair Lopez, who I was just reading his arrival signing article on the Wolves website. He looks great. He looks like he should be in a boy band who were on X Factor or something. Go and check him out. Honestly, he looks fantastic. But where are they at in terms of under Vitor Pereira? Had a strong finish to the season. The vibes were high. You went and met Vitor in a pub, had a pint with him.

21:34you know what he was getting the press pack round then they lose Kuna and Aitnori and you start to think oh that's not ideal where are Wolves at? So I think I'm not saying it was always in the plan to lose Kuna I think the realistic expectation from everyone at the club including Pereira was that he would go so I don't that didn't come as a big surprise they got the money they wanted for him he'd signed that new deal earlier this year as well to give them that security as well to make sure that they got enough. So they got that, whatever we said before, 62 and a half million for him. So that's obviously helped them.

22:08Fair Lopez, they brought in the first signing of the summer for 23 million euros plus 2 million in add-ons. So he's a 21-year-old versatile attacker from Celta Vigo. It's going to be interesting because like we were talking about proven Premier League players. Not only is this guy not proven in the Premier League, but he's only really had half a good season in La Liga. So it's going to be a big step up for him to try and fill a void of someone like Cunha, who has been the best player in that team since he arrived there, is a massive, massive job. So it's going to be what are the expectations on him?

22:48Is he going to be given a season to bed in? Is he going to come off more the bench? What is expected of him? Because if he's expected to step up and be that Kuna player straight away, then I think that's a lot of pressure on someone who's, like I said, only played half a season in La Liga. I've been reading lots of things to come out of the people who obviously do the same job as us in Spain. Some of them were quite surprised that it's this summer that he's gone. I think everyone knew he was the talent in that team and the one they could cash in on. But I think they were maybe expecting him to have another full season impress even more and then go the season after.

23:24So is it a move that's potentially come a summer too soon? But Mendes is very much back in at Wolves with his feet under the table and he's been instrumental to this deal. He's close to both clubs, it's in Wolves and Celta Vigo. So is it a surprise that he's there? No, apparently Celta Vigo are in a bit of a financial mess so they needed a cash injection and Uncle George Mendes has come along with a magic solution to some of their problems and managed to get one of the players out to Wolves for a healthy fee, shall we say. So it's going to be interesting. Wolves have done this before. When Jota and Neves came over, they weren't proven Premier League amazing talents and look at what they went on to do.

24:09So I'm not just discrediting the transfer or saying it's going to be rubbish. I'm just saying there's going to be a lot of pressure on a 21-year-old relatively unproven, unknown quantity to come in and fill the void of Cunha, which is where he can play. He can play in the turn, he can play. Everyone says his best position is behind the striker, but he can play out wide as well. So yeah, big pressure on him. But I think it's already a signing that loads of people are getting excited about. So I've done lots of reading on him and I'm looking forward to seeing how he fits in there next season. Yeah, interesting.

24:41Gregor? Nice story about him. over to go to school in Suffolk for a year in 2018 and he trained with Norwich City's academy but I don't think he enjoyed it so he went and played for, well trained with Bacton United like a 7th tier non-league team so I was reading a piece on this guy's website earlier about speaking to some of his old coaches and he was like this little kid would kind of nutmeg and take the mickey out of all these grown men for a year and have kept in touch so he's only played 21st team games he's like, he is very unproven but it's been quite an exciting kind of breakthrough left footed, really skilful creative, as well as like a goal threat, so yeah I think very interesting one, but Charlotte's right I don't think, Wolves even if they'd kept Cunha and Ait Nouri would have needed to invest in their squad because it had been kind of cut back and you know, this is a team that they could and had to, to comply with PSR and that affected them.

25:41So they need a bit of investment this summer undoubtedly. Yeah, we'll see what that investment holds for Wolves this summer. Charlotte will have all the details on the Times website. Stick with us. Up next we're going to talk about Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest but it's time for a quick break so it's time for the quiz question. Who am I talking about when I say a former footballer who played for Aston Villa and Nottingham Forest as well as for Rangers, Tottenham and Sunderland and was capped 50 times by Scotland? Find out after the break.

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27:53Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've got Gregor Robertson and Charlotte Dunker with me. It might be preseason, but Gregor Robertson, no messing around straight in with the answer to the quiz question which was Alan Hutton Alan Hutton no messing about from Gregor there a fellow Scott wasn't going to get that wrong now as I said Alan Hutton playing for both Nottingham Forest and Aston Villa a long career at Villa so let's start with them in the second half of the show Charlotte a great season a good season for Villa a season of fantastic moments certainly but ending in disappointment for them as they didn't qualify for the Champions League just give us a little summary like you did with Manchester United about where Villa are at in the summer at the moment and some of the maybe deadlines that they've got with PSR and things coming up yeah so I don't know if everyone remembers back to last summer but they in the end they had to they definitely had to sell by June the 30th Douglas always went through at the last minute for 42.3 million and Damian Vidigani came out and said who's that who sorry is their director of football operations said that they avoided a potential points deduction by seconds last season.

29:01We know they're not in the same situation this season in terms of needing to sell again by the 30th of June, which is obviously next week. Someone said to me they'd expect someone to go, but it wouldn't be anyone massive in terms of like a Douglas Louise type of player that would need to be sold before then, which is why you've not seen them do anything at the minute. There was a lot of trading with like, not academy kids, but lower profile players last season as well around this time of year that we haven't seen. But I think one of the biggest issues that Villa have got at the minute is in UEFA, they have this squad cost ratio rules that means that a squad can have, it's a maximum of 70 % of the club's revenue can be spent on player and coach wages and transfer and age of fees.

29:47The last figures released for Villa showed that they had one of the highest wage bills in Europe and they've already been in negotiations with UEFA because that first season they were back in Europe in the Conference League. They breached the limit, which was 80 % then. So they're already expecting a settlement over that. Their wage bill is still really, really high. So that's something that they are going to have to address. So PSR, they still have to be clever. Vidagani has already come out and said it's going to be a difficult summer in terms of staying within the financial rules and regulations.

30:19And also they've got this UEFA ruling that they need to keep an eye on as well in terms of getting the wage bill down effectively. So that's not saying they're not going to spend. They do want to spend. They want to bring in a right back. They want to bring in a right-sided centre-half. They want to bring, this is all ideally, they want to bring in a right winger as well and potentially competition for Ollie Watkins. But at the minute, there's lots of question marks as well over certain players. It looks like Leon Bailey, at the minute, is probably the most likely to leave. I think he's got lots of interest from Saudi and he seems to be keen to make a move over there.

30:58So he's one that could go. Watkins, I obviously just mentioned, he was subject to transfer interest from Arsenal in January. Boyhood Arsenal fan would have been open to the move, but then John Duran left. So that meant that Villa wanted to keep hold of Oli Watkins. If a substantial offer came of him again this summer and he wanted to go, would Villa listen? They'd probably have to listen a bit, but they would need a replacement as well. and obviously Emi Martinez. Everyone thought when he went crying off the pitch at the last game, home game last season, that we'd have already said our goodbyes to him by now.

31:34He's also changed his agent recently, which suggests he's looking for a move. He's another one that's been linked with nearly every single club in Europe so far. Manchester United was the most recent one, I think. They've all got their lists out again. They have. Charlotte's outlined a slightly unpredictable sounding summer for Aston Villa. Where do you see it for them in terms of how they finish the season? I mean, under Unai Emery, they've been praised so much for how they've set the club up. You've talked on this podcast consistently about their ambitions. Where do you see them going now with all the things that Charlotte's outlined there?

32:07I think it was just remarkably fine margins last season. I think they won eight of nine games until they went into that last game at United. And obviously, Martinez sending off and gift of a goal, and then the controversial goal that wasn't as well was a pretty tough way to end the season for them. So very fine margins. And it was another, I've said many times on here, when teams are trying to break into the Champions League places and then have to compete in the Champions League, there's always a fall away in terms of league form the following season. And they kept it going right to the end. So I don't think it's right to say that they took a step back last season in any way.

32:48and I think they strengthened the squad. I think they did some really smart business last year, particularly in January, bringing in Asensio and Rashford and Doniel Mallon to really boost them and give them more attacking options. But they also had a few players in on loan, like De Sassi was another one. So you're right, uncertainty is the right way to sum it up. And then there's the whole issue of, as Martin would call it, having to plead poverty when they're one of the richest ownership groups in the league. so it's very hard for them to balance all these things up but I think they've been run really shrewdly so far and although bringing the waste bill down is going to be difficult as you try and improve the squad they've been far more hits than misses in the transfer market and I think it's kind of a case of improving improving across the board not just adding squad depth as they did a bit of last season I think they need to try and raise the level a little bit if they want to really compete because ultimately this is a football club that want to compete for the Premier League title now.

33:48That's their aim, that's their goal. So they've got work to do to do that, but I think it's going to be an interesting summer for them because, again, they're going to have to be boxing really clever. Charlotte, Greg is right just on that point, isn't it? I think it's important to say for fans, not Villa fans, but the wider football public, that that is Aston Villa's goal, isn't it? They want to be right up there competing for the title regularly in the Champions League. This is not this just like, oh, it's nice that Villa are up there, isn't it? That's a bit different. They don't see it like that.

34:14This is their real goal, sustained goal, to be right up there consistently. Yeah, of course. And then if you look at the job that Emery's done since he replaced Steven Gerrard, why wouldn't that be the aim? I know there's still that gap to bridge to the top, but that's what they're trying to do now. They're trying to look at the squad, look at what they need to do to take this team to the next level. Last season was all obviously about new experiences. A lot of those players had never played in the Champions League before. So to deal with the mental tax of playing in the Champions League on a Wednesday and then playing at home on a Saturday lunchtime, all that sort of stuff.

34:49I know they had the Conference League the season before, but the level just wasn't the same. So I just think it's all about them learning. It's about them improving as a group. And you're right, winning the Premier League, that's obviously got to be their aspiration and continuing to qualify for the Champions League if they turned up in that game at Old Trafford. they would have got their goal for the end of the season, which was to qualify for that competition. They didn't. So like Gregor said, it was fine margins. It definitely wasn't a bad season for Villa, but it just shows how much they've grown and how much the expectation from the fans has grown as well, that they walked away from Old Trafford disappointed.

35:27They've got another season in Europe. Yes, it's not the European competition they wanted to be in, but this is a team who on these podcasts a couple of years ago, we were talking about them potentially getting relegated again. So it's all about perspective, isn't it? But once they've had a taste of it and they've been so close to the top as well, then yeah, the next goal for them would be to close the gap and try and win the Premier League title as well. Balancing the books, but big ambitions for Aston Villa. I mentioned there those clubs that break through in a season and have annoying people like me on podcasts going, oh, isn't this great?

35:59What a wonderful story. And no team epitomises that more than Nottingham Forest last season. Gregor, how often did we talk about them? can they do it will they do it where will they finish what a fantastic story it was and in some respects not quite exactly the same as Villa but a slightly disappointing end for some of them although I imagine now maybe Forest fans will have reflected on that brilliant achievement last season qualifying for the Conference League Charlotte again I'm just asking you for a kind of summary to tee us up for the final segment of the show on Forest where they're at because it's all gone quite quiet they were the story of last season where are they at in terms of their summer preparations for next season?

36:34So Nuno was given a new three-year deal over the weekend. That's the first big piece of transfer business that they've done. There was interest in the manager from other teams. So he had just over 12 months left on his previous deal. So to secure him for another three years is really positive given the work that he's done. They're expected to bring in a couple of players from Botafogo. So a forward called Jesus and a centre-back called Cunha. They're supposed to be the first incomings of the summer, but this is Nottingham Forest. Evangelos Maranakis obviously has huge ambition. And to be fair to him, all the criticism that has been aimed at him in terms of like the sporadic transfer activity, they seem to, they've calmed that down in the last few windows.

37:20The transfer activity they've done has actually been, well, last summer transfer activity was exceptional, wasn't it? The amount of money they spent for the talent they got was remarkable. So this summer, they're looking at a couple of wingers, central midfielder, a left-back and a back-up goalkeeper. Just a few positions that they want to be in. So I wouldn't expect them, I know it's been quiet so far, I wouldn't expect them to have a quiet summer. But also key to that as well is retaining that group. I think they're looking at giving new deals to Nico Williams and Ola Aina. so they want players who have been key to that success last season and a lot of that was about people we spoke to said about the togetherness the harmony at the training ground and it was a good group they described it as so they want to keep that group together but then obviously they've got European football they need to add strength in depth, they need to add more bodies, they need to add more competition so I think that is the goal for them this summer.

38:19Igor Jesus is quite interesting actually, they tried to sign him They tried to sign three players from Botafogo, I think, before the Club World Cup. And Jesus was one of them who said, I'm going to stay and play in the Club World Cup. And he scored the winner against PSG on Friday. He scored against Seattle Sounders in the opening game. He's been one of the kind of, you know, for the people who are actually paying attention to the Club World Cup, one of the sort of breakout stars. So they might actually have real competition for him now. If he makes a name for himself in this tournament, it's a bit like, you know, when someone's playing for the country in an international World Cup and you think you've got to sign and then they have a world, they have a tournament and then everyone wants them.

38:55That's a possibility with them. But as Charlotte said, there's another couple of players from Botafogo that are interested in. It's interesting that in itself, I know Forest have signed Brazilian players already, they've signed Mario being the biggest, most outstanding example, but Edu having left Arsenal as the head of Evangelos Maranakis' sort of multi-club football group, I can't remember his title, like president of football operations or whatever I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a focus on Brazil and South America Forrest have done that already but I think that might be ramped up a bit more and then there's also finally they kind of got the green light to begin stadium redevelopment which has been a big thing going on last year in the background there was kind of almost veiled threats about leaving the city ground which the fans got really upset about I think there was a bit of an issue with the council about getting the freehold to the ground but that's been resolved and Maranakis is kind of, for all you could say about him, he's shown his ambition again.

39:57He's got a plan to totally redevelop the city ground and grow the club even further. So I don't think that season for Forest is going to be an outlier. I think that they're going to be looking up again. But it will be more difficult, won't it, with this added competition, with competing in Europe. And also with that comes pressures as well, doesn't it, Charlotte? because you talked about New Deal for Nuno Espirito Santo, trying to keep all these players who were brilliant last season, then that big shopping list of players that they need. The fans will also be looking at Chelsea and West Ham previously and going into this tournament now that they've maybe made peace with the idea that they're in the Conference League and not the Champions League or Europa League, and going, well, English clubs do brilliantly in this, we should do brilliantly in this and then still be competing.

40:42But that's going to be incredibly hard, isn't it, both of you? I mean, it doesn't strike me that they've got a squad at the moment that would be able to do that? Charlotte first. No, at the minute, they don't have that strength in depth. I think the concern towards the back end of last season was obviously Forest were flying high, weren't they? Everyone was like, how high can they finish? Champions League nailed on sort of thing. And the people you spoke to at the club was like, look how many injuries we've had. They were so not necessarily lucky with injuries. They obviously managed their players' workloads really well and managed to avoid serious injuries.

41:14And they started to pick up a few injuries to key players in the last few months of the season. And that's when they started to drop important points. So it's like if they had that strength in depth and someone to step in and fill the void, if Chris Wood had to have a couple of games rest, that sort of thing, then that's what they need to help. So I think if you look at the squad as it is at the minute, it's not enough to compete in both of those competitions and keep flying high in the Premier League. But that obviously isn't the plan for Forrest. The plan is they've got money to spend. And the word coming out of the club is that PSR isn't a problem for them this summer.

41:49So they have got funds there that are available and they do need to strengthen and bring in more bodies. So I think maybe that's more of a conversation for once the window's closed, see where they're at, see who they've managed to bring in. What does that do to the quality level in the squad? Have they brought in starters? Have they brought in just players to bring off the bench and give players a bit of rest? so I think it's going to be a really interesting summer for Forest because obviously they exceeded expectations last season but how can they build on that and like you said, the Conference League everyone will think they can go and win it Greg, a final word from you on your former club Yeah, I think the other thing is Nuno Forest play a kind of style that in itself, Forest's style in itself is going to be interesting how teams know or being reacquainted with Nuno and what it's like to play against a team that basically doesn't press and conserves energy.

42:41But the fact that they do conserve energy is interesting. I think back to Wolves in the 2019-20 season when they made the Europa League, they got to the quarterfinals, they still finished seventh in the Premier League and he always operated then with a really tight-knit, low-number squad. He's been here and done this before, that's all I'm saying. He knows how to handle Thursday night football followed by a Premier League campaign. But Forrest, with the owner they have, are undoubtedly going to invest in the squad and try and add numbers as well as quality. He's hugely ambitious. So I think this is just the first step.

43:18Some confident words on Forrest from a former Nottingham Forrest player. We've missed that on the game podcast. Greg Robertson and Charlotte Dunker. Thank you very much for joining me. Thank you too for listening. We'll be back later in the week. We'll see you then.

43:58We'll see you next time. grab a$150 gift card as a thank you. Terms and conditions apply. See offer page for details.