Why players get booed and best ever solo goals

0:28Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from the Times. Mickey van der Ven's Barnstormer. I'm Tom Clark and joining me to discuss all of that, we have the Chief Correspondent for the Times and Sunday Times, Martin Samuel, the Football Correspondent for the Sunday Times, Johnny Northcroft, and the former footballer turned journalist, Gregor Robertson is here. As usual, team, we're on a tight schedule today because, you know, train woe for Johnny. I'm speaking at three times speed. So listeners, in case you think you're on fast forward, you're not. I'm just speaking this quickly to make sure that producer Neil is happy and that we're all tied in nice and neatly.

0:57So let's get going. Champions League's pretty boring, right? completely rubbish everyone enjoying it it's all over already it's started has it yeah yeah yeah someone someone said to me the other night that this is all just content isn't it and when they said it I was like yeah they're kind of right I mean the games have been really good well that's the thing it's quite good content it's good content that's the thing about it yeah but what do they mean you know like I mean you look at the the big sprawling 24 team table is it 24 that go through they go through yeah and and you notice there's like there's teams in that 24 that have got four points out of four games, but they're not really in massive jeopardy because there is a team, there is a tier at the bottom of the Champions League that are kind of fodder, aren't there?

1:40Well, Napoli, the Italian champions are, as you say, Johnny, 24th with four points from four games, but are still technically going through currently into a playoff situation. Loads of other big teams in that middle bracket as well. Chelsea are one of them. I mentioned them in the intro there. We don't need to dwell on it massively, but I do find it interesting Enzo Moreska's approach to this competition so far this season, making changes that aren't quite working. I mean, I made a jokey kind of slightly disparaging reference to Carabag, but Carabag were all over them in the first half. He was playing a conference league team.

2:09Yeah, I mean... And they're not. It's as simple as that. When you look at the changes he made, he made the sort of changes you'd make if you were playing in the conference league. Yeah, I mean... And they're better than that. When you think about Newcastle, for example, who got a win and have got, I think, nine points from the four games. And we've talked about them, Gregor, on Monday's show in the league. It's kind of the opposite. Maybe Eddie Howe's going, let's go full throttle for this, get the points on the board in the Champions League and make sure we get through. I think it tells you where that club stands as regards the Champions League, actually.

2:41For Newcastle, it maybe is the highlight of their season. But for the rest, it's still, at this stage anyway, it's the Premier League. So you're actually seeing, like Chelsea, coaches using it almost the way coaches used to use the League Cup it's to give players minutes it's to give players that you've bought and sold the project to proper time on the pitch and then we saw that with Chelsea when it goes wrong you take three of them off and put three sort of more main players on and redress the result but that's what this phase feels like they're not bad games though they're not they're not terrible games it's just last year we were all a bit in love with the new competition and we felt there was more jeopardy and I think what's clear now is I don't think it's more jeopardy but there are just better games as in there are more big clashes.

3:31PSG have already played Bayern Munich and Barcelona and they're going to play Newcastle. That's fantastic seeing that. Yeah, I mean, obviously Liverpool beating Real Madrid which we'll come on to in a second. I mean, Chelsea have got Barcelona, Atalanta, Pafos and Napoli to come. I mean, any worries? I mean, are they going to... No. No, they'll be absolutely fine into that. They might not get into the top eight, but then for us to get, for English football to get six into the top eight would be extraordinary. That would be serious domination. No, it would be extraordinary. But no one's in any jeopardy.

4:03Whereas you look at Italy, Juventus are in the relegation zone at the moment, Napoli are bottom of the 24. Villarreal are in the relegation zone as well. Whereas you look at all of the English teams and you're not thinking anyone's in any trouble. I mean, Tottenham have made reasonably hard work so far of probably the easiest run of games of any of the team. It was a very favourable draw. I mean, you say six out of eight, Martin. There's four out of eight at the minute. The top eight is Bayern Munich, Arsenal, Inter Milan, Manchester City, PSG, Newcastle, Real Madrid and Liverpool. I mean, that's four English sides alongside Real, PSG, Inter and Bayern Munich.

4:48they're seriously big dogs Tottenham are 10th and Chelsea are 12th yeah not far behind yeah we've been discussing this for a long time Premier League spent 3 billion in the last transfer window which was as much as the other big four leagues put together it's inevitable this is going to be the case apart from a few major European forces yeah we should say as well Bayern Munich and Inter Milan are both 4 from 4 as are Arsenal I think Bayern Munich have won every game or 14 games this season or something like that and they look incredibly stronger 16 I think you might be right yeah I mean is this part of the competition as well where we may be at this stage after three or four games it kind of there's a little lull and then it all gears back for that big mad night that UEFA want of where it's all on the line and everyone plays at the same time and the journalist is an absolute nightmare we just delayed that that's what we said last year the jeopardy is being delayed for content yeah purposes yeah yeah and as we said It is good content.

5:46I mean, the Bayern PSG was really good. The Liverpool game, what we're going to come into, was really good. But it's delaying the inevitable, which is that you get to a point where you run out of games and you've got something to really play for and the jeopardy arrives. Yeah. Go on, Martin, sorry. No, I was going to say, and the other problem with it is that you look at it and there's far more chance now of, because the big teams end up playing each other, there's far more chance of a fixture like that coming at a stage in the season when you're looking at it and going, yeah, but it doesn't mean anything because, you know, come back when it means something in March, you know, which is what happened with Arsenal and PSG last year.

6:35Arsenal beat PSG last year around about this time of the season, you know, come back in April when it actually means something and, you know, you didn't get the same result. So the Liverpool-Real Madrid result is great for Liverpool because they've been going through a slump and beating Real Madrid is never going to do you any harm. So that's fantastic for Liverpool. And they played well and Verts' new position and all of these sort of things. But there is a little bit of a comeback when it's all on the line. I remember Rafa Benitez once telling me about Sergio Ramos who was quite a poor trainer at times and trying to get on to him when they had him at Real Madrid and Ramos just saying, I'll be ready in April.

7:18And that's the mentality of Real Madrid, but that's what this Champions League's about. Yeah, really. Interesting, talking about being ready in April. There are some big games to come, of course. Before we go on to Liverpool, Real Madrid, we've got Arsenal, Bayern Munich in the next set of fixtures. They're two of the teams that have won all four games so far. Arsenal, only two, just a few stats on them, sorry, only two English sides in European Cup slash Champions League history have won their first four games of a campaign without conceding a goal. Leeds in 1969-70 at Arsenal this season. Max Downman as well, becoming the youngest player ever in Champions League history at 15 years old and 308 days.

7:53Absolutely remarkable. Going ahead of Youssef Moukoko at Dortmund and Lamin Jamal, of course, at Barcelona. I mean, just quickly, Johnny, on Arsenal and heading into that Bayern game. Seems an obvious thing to say, but that'll be a good test of where they're at winning this competition, won't it? Yeah, and for Bayern, those are the two best teams in Europe at the moment, without a doubt. And Arsenal have been even more imperious in Europe than they have been in the Premier League. They've been so superior at times. They don't seem to have got out of second gear in those games. And it will, I don't know, they'll be tested, but maybe they won't be.

8:34they're so good at the moment I'm not sure they'll dismantle Bayern though that's the other thing so yeah bring that one on and although it doesn't have a bearing in the competition now like we're saying it could be one of those games that returns in the later stages so this first game will be an interesting marker could have a few learnings but as I say let's go back to one of the big games of this round the biggest game undoubtedly Liverpool 1, Real Madrid 0 loads of strands to pick up here so I mean no Izak for a second time two wins in a row for Liverpool Florian Wurtz I thought looked good looked better a bit of bite in his play Conor Bradley excellent of course Johnny Martin any strong thoughts of any of those take it away I saw Liverpool against Villa on Saturday as well I think we talked about it recently on this pod removing Kirkus and bringing Robertson in has been a real starting point in restoring stability and that's not an attack on Kirkus but it's just that extra reassurance and experience Robertson brings.

9:36I feel they've got the foundation right and then on the other side Bradley's no longer being asked to be Trent they're more stable, they're also staying a little bit more compact in midfield so he's not having to do too much, he can just focus on being Bradley, he was amazing against Vinnie Jr. concentrating on what he's good at which is against tackles, winning duels getting the Anfield crowd going physically he is. He's that player isn't he so many defenders just try and kind of marshal or direct or you know keep someone going down the line or like you know just shepherding the opposition the opponent particularly for someone like Evanny Junior he's like he wants to wrestle him and fight him and grab him and like he knows that even if he gets his arm across and he's kicked the ball down the line he's not getting past him like it was joy to watch there's an art to that isn't there absolutely it's braver because it's easier to try and keep someone going in one direction and then just like you know marshal him and say you've got to do something when you're the one that actually engages it's brave because he might wriggle under he might play 1-2 and be past you it's like when you're actually trying to engage the opponent it's brave or defending and he was outstanding at it he looked like the player that came into Liverpool's team can you remember when he first came into Liverpool's team and everyone's going right oh this is interesting because he plays in Trent's position now could they play him there could they move Trent into midfield and all of this sort of stuff because he looked so accomplished Bradley and I thought it was fantastic the other night absolutely fantastic and taking Vinny Junior the other way as well yeah like so many times he doesn't want to do that he doesn't want to be doing that and he's like giving him foul has he got that in his game though and again he's not asked to be Trent but you do as a modern fullback you've got to have threat going forward has he got enough of that yeah very different well that's his threat isn't it it's not the passing although he did play a lovely pass didn't he but it's that isn't it it's steaming forward yeah either you know often it's that underlapping run as well that was the way they did it a bit in this game where he would kind of I think like Subozlai or someone would drop in and then play it wide and he would make the inside run and sit in the inside channel again just like Vinnie Junior's like I do not want to be doing this he's a galloper isn't he he's a buccaneer in fullback and that almost kind of makes the defensive side a bit easier, Vinnie Junior's knackered when you're taking him that way the whole time he gets the ball and he's like oh I'll just pass it back inside instead of trying to take you on next day would anyone have called you a galloper well I was about 21 and then I became a donkey yeah it's good I mean Sir Bosley as well I have got to mention him there's probably three players of the season at the moment Martin you wrote about Dettlin Rice didn't disagree with that and Gabriel obviously Jamie Carragher's picked him out but Sir Bosley has just been astounding this year just absolutely an everything player technically brilliant taking the set pieces boundless energy almost playing floor inverts into the Liverpool team with the way he connects with them and again he was just and he spent time at right back solving problems also when Liverpool have been really poor he's still been excellent he's been one of the few players who's actually kept that high level I think this is a game where you look to the midfield again he just looked at everything and it was the same against Villa and you just saw a bit more familiarity you saw a back four that was recognised OK, Connor Bradley was in and out last season but they all know each other and then the three in front of them they know as well and he just reminded about all the things we spoke about last season about the balance and how multi-talented all those players are they could all play 6, 8 or 10 almost and they just rotate and they stretch Real Madrid at times and in other times they were really compact all of them were getting on the ball deep or picking up buckets they were great Brilliance and familiarity then but what does that mean for Alexander Isak who's not been in the team looking at this spent a lot of money on him One thing I wonder is at the moment does Eketiki suit the team better than Isak because Eketiki is one of those one man forward line players he's awkward he'll run into channels he'll occupy defence and if your talent in the team is in the line behind then it kind of makes sense to have a player like that as your number nine rather than an Isak who's a different type who's waiting for service and all that kind of stuff.

14:00So at the moment, there's a nice problem that I have to use that old cliche. I think you'd pick Eketiki, but you wouldn't want to put too many of the new players on the team. I think that's a lesson. Would Wurtz get in based on, you know, you said you saw the Villa game. I'd play Wurtz. I love Wurtz. I can see why he plays Gakpo. I'm not sure Wurtz comes in at 10 anymore because of the midfield balance we're talking about. No, there's no 10. No, no. So, but I mean, the guys, speed and IQ what he does is fantastic especially when you see people on a wavelength with him like Shabozle he's great off the ball as well yeah a lot of kind of backtracking runs and really good kind of in terms of their pressing and stuff that was a bit I think that was one of his that was probably his best game so far yeah really interesting it's interesting what Wenger said wasn't it you see the quotes from Arsene Wenger and he was asked about Liverpool's front line and about Virts and he said and he seemed to speak with some authority on it, so you presume he's spoken to someone who knows, that was a condition of Verts going to Liverpool, was he plays number 10.

15:09This is where he doesn't want to play wide, he wants to play number 10. I do. You know, exactly. And that has now basically changed. If you want to get in the team, mate, you need to play where we turn and listen there might be a future in which this time next season versus Flake 10 behind Izak and who knows Arnie Slott will I'm sure probably sort that out but it's interesting that in this kind of mini crisis that we're in this is what it's gone to Martin I wanted to ask about your column this week which you wrote before this match that was very kind of excellently headlined with what we're about to talk about levels of animosity in the game now beyond reason booing is the new cheering and this was of course before Trent Alexander-Arnold returned to Anfield and got booed again.

15:56I mean, I agree with you on this sentiment, but tell the listeners a bit more. It's just about the negativity that you see at a lot of clubs. There's now four teams in the Premier League who are better. Well, there's one that's as good, which is Wolves. It doesn't matter where Wolves play, they're equally useless everywhere. But West Ham, Tottenham and Chelsea are all better away from home than they are at home. Tottenham's home record is quite remarkable. Tottenham's home record this year in the league is worse than West Ham's. When you consider that everyone thinks the London Stadium is the worst stadium in football, oh, it's a terrible stadium, Tottenham, everyone should have a stadium like Tottenham.

16:42Tottenham's record at the Tottenham Stadium, they've got one point less in the league than West Ham have got at home in 2024. Are we saying it's less hostile than the London Stadium? No, I'm not saying it's hostile. But what I mean is, it was a negative experience at Tottenham, wasn't it? West Ham had their best performance, I would say, of the year, probably. And yet there was still a protest after the game and stuff. Trent comes out and gets booed and you just think, look, I know about loyalty and this and that. But, you know, Jamie, after Jamie Carroll, I really like Jamie. I think he's a smart guy, but he's talking about, you know, none of those fans would do what he did.

17:27Now, I'm looking at a geezer who's kissing the badge when Trent Alexander comes on, who's four stone overweight, and I'm thinking, so when would he have got the opportunity to go to Real Madrid? When would that loyalty actually have been tested, you know, for all of these people? Even for Jamie Carragher, by the way. Even for Jamie Carragher. you know when would that loyalty to Liverpool be tested what say you know there's no better club for Jamie Kerrger they're really because he doesn't want to split the Manchester United or anything like that and Real Madrid weren't coming in for him they've come in for Trent you know it's you can turn something down it's a lot easier to turn something down I saw a headline in one of the papers the other day Idris Elba why I'm not playing James Bond I'm thinking because you haven't been asked, mate.

18:19That's why you're not playing James Bond. You can't just turn up and go, right, I'm here, lads. You know, it's you know, there's a lot of things that I'm, you know, I'm not going to do, but it's not because you know, I'm not going to front a reformed Beatles or anything like that, you know. I reckon you'd give it a crack. I'd give it a crack, but you know, on the kazoo, yeah. I'd join them on the kazoo. Nobody would ask. Do you know what I mean? You just look at this and you just think, look,

18:53I'm not mystified why they boo Trent I know why they booing Trent I just don't think it's right Is it modern football? Is it modern society? Are we all just angrier? Like what are we without going too big picture here because you know you think about Liverpool players back in the day and it was mentioned at the time but like Steve McManaman went to Real Madrid Yeah Without a much good luck go and win the European Cup Although my clones relationship was never the same was it no no no no leaving the tent tent aside slightly um but is related no i think we live in a performative world yes social media's caused that maybe the way we bring up our kids and applaud them every time they bring them a scrap of paper with a spaghetti stuck to it that they've made in school you know i've done that myself like growing up kids and they still want to close anyway sorry um but yeah i think we do live in a world where everyone wants to demonstrate their feelings all the time and that's me sounding like a really old man and it is but i know it's a big difference actually anfield being in the stadium at the villa game compared to what you see on social media in a very positive sense like the backing that slot and the team got on saturday was 100 incredible read social media you think you know what lovable fans on about they want to get rid of arnie slot no they don't there's people on social media who are saying that it doesn't mean that that's Liverpool fans I think the Trent thing is complicated and it's part of I suppose Liverpool's identity to to be as sort of fiercely loyal to the badge and the cause as that I don't get it personally because it's not like Trent played five minutes for Liverpool on the left he played for ten years he won the lot he won everything it was possible to win but all I would say is I'm conscious of being a teenager absolutely booing Davey Robertson when he went to Rangers from Aberdeen and still haven't forgiven him.

20:55So, you know, maybe we're all hypocrites when we're talking about other people's clubs and we get a bit of that ourselves. I think that'd be a good catch line for most football podcasts, actually, we're all hypocrites. I think that'd be a good standing point to start with. But what John says there about the performative nature of it, that was one of the points I made in the column. You've got this, at the end of every match, If a team loses now, they get booed. It doesn't actually matter whether they deserve it or not. You can play well, get beat, but if you're losing at 1-0 and you could have murdered the other team, you're going to get booed.

21:32And so that's very performative. This thing of players come over at the end of the match and they applaud the fans. That's all very performative. watch any football from 70s, 80s, 90s no one goes and applauds the fans you play it again, you go down the tunnel no one goes now you can say that was wrong and this is a mark of respect for how much football costs now or maybe in the old days there was less gap between the players and the fans I think that's true as well and I think the flip side is that when it's good the combination of you know even if I go to a Lincoln game when we win the manager goes to where the ultras are and they give it the like three arms in the air thing you come along then the ultras the Lincoln ultras here he comes one minute one minute he's moaning about football being too negative mate I'm not I'm just I love the idea of ultras is that what used to be called fans you're very welcome they'll have TIFOs next won't they is that what used to be called fans Mark made a good point I don't know it was just fans you were fans that's what you were you were fans Mark made a good point in the column too that what Jed Spence and Van de Ven's reaction was was more natural it was more it was more real it was like actually like the truth is fans players kind of don't like the fans a lot of the time that sounds like there's something that's never said for obvious reasons but if you're getting booed after having a bad half like we just discussed or like you're on a little bit of a bad run and probably and the fans aren't making the atmosphere or your job any easier in fact they're making it harder why would you want to go over and clap them you don't you think they're a bunch of fickle so and so's so like that's the truth but then you obviously deep down there's an acknowledgement that like their presence makes the job like infinitely better and everyone saw what Covid was like and how football was greatly diminished but there is like a bit of a uneasy relationship there between players and the fans and that's the truth of the matter maybe this country is a bit different as well I was speaking to Konstantin Echner our German correspondent about England and the England team have been getting booed quite a lot over the last couple of years Wembley especially and I was asking him does that ever happen in Germany because the German national team has been far worse than the England national team or the England team's been much better in the last couple of years.

24:11And he said, no, I mean, it doesn't, they haven't really been, bad as they've played, they haven't really been booed at half-time or booed at the end of the game. So, mate, I don't know, is there something here that's different? Yeah, it's strange things. Italy. Booing at Hampton the other day, Johnny. I know, I know. Never seen that before in my life. We're in the middle of qualifying from the group and they're getting booed. Playing rubbish, though. Italy, yeah. Italy sort of go further south, don't they? Italy go, you know, you can always tell if Italy are doing no good, it's the further south they go in the country.

24:44What, for where they play? Yeah, where they play, where they play their home games. If they're in the boot part of it, if they're down there, they're in trouble because they go south to get a better response. Spain go to Seville for the same reason. Not that in recent years Spain have needed too much. convincing the fans but if they're in trouble they'll go to somewhere like Seville where the support is where they're not as spoiled by it I suppose it could be like England going to Newcastle or something like that where the fans aren't maybe as spoiled as the Wembley fans and that's not having a go at Wembley because England's attendance is for international football against teams that it's not really a contest are quite astonishing.

25:40They're just brilliant. Absolutely amazing. Well, if you've got views on what the situation is with booing or supporting your modern team, do get in touch with me, tom.clock at the time.co.uk. Loads more still to discuss, including Newcastle and Tottenham and some brilliant individual goals. We're going to take a quick break. So there's a question from Bill Edgar's weekly quiz that you can find on the Times website. Who began the 1995-96 season with Liverpool, but ended it playing for Manchester City in a 2-2 draw at home to Liverpool on the final day, a result that meant City were relegated? Find out after the break.

26:25Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clarke and I've got Johnny Northcroft, Martin Samuel and Gregor Robertson with me. A fiendishly difficult quiz question, it turns out. even Gregor Robertson was struggling, the answer was Nigel Clough. No, no idea. Gregor's fuming. We've lost him for the rest of the show, ladies and gentlemen. Well, we mentioned two of the clubs that I want to bring back in to the start of the second half of the show, Newcastle and Tottenham, both getting important wins. Two kind of differing atmospheres in home games. Newcastle have been doing brilliantly at home this season.

26:53Martin, as you mentioned, Tottenham less so. Just quickly on Newcastle, they're sixth, as we've already mentioned, in the Champions League table. Three wins from four. matches to come they've got Marseille Leverkusen PSV PSG so maybe there's a bit of front loading going on here from Eddie Howell Johnny maybe thinking let's make sure we get through this time and get into the latter stages of the competition yeah actually I just think Newcastle the Champions League is so special that every game they will go all out in every game in that competition so I don't think it's strategic I just don't think they've been playing as badly in the Premier League as their sort of results suggest until they played West Ham and of course they were dreadful.

27:33But I just think they've been getting more like the rewards in the Champions League than their football deserves. I know we're about to talk about an incredible Spurs goal, but Dan Byrne, I mean, I was going to say. What a header, yeah. Wow. Got Tony Cascarino, the only man to ask about headers. He's writing on the Times website. You can read that later. But it was incredible. I mean, how do you even do that? Is it the pace of the ball? Has he actually put curl on it? like how do you do that with a header I suppose it's got to be the angle he's kind of made contact with the ball at if it's coming that way I know I'm on a podcast and you can't see but you're sort of heading across it a little bit and that's how it that's how it swerved in but I mean I've never done that remember remember we are on YouTube you can you know you know do a full demonstration of it if you want to okay let me stand up now yeah it's an absolute beauty like he's he's just a man mountain of a human being isn't he and it's great to see his journey he's magnificent you know sort of brought brought back to mind the Carabao Cup final as well but yeah I can't remember seeing a header curl like that also the distance of it as well it's absolutely everything about it he had so long to watch it too that's actually something that makes it harder you know if you're just up and challenging to make contact you're not even sure you're going to win it it's sort of more instinctive whereas he had so much space he was watching the ball come for so long didn't even break stride either as well Well, there's everything about it.

28:59Continual movement. Absolutely fantastic. Tottenham, as I say, we've talked about them a lot on recent shows. Greg, I mentioned a couple of listeners who got in touch a few weeks ago, very upset that we hadn't mentioned their win against Everton. So I got back in touch with them to ask what they think of the current situation and the criticism of Thomas Frank. Sunder, who is one of the listeners who got in touch, said Thomas Frank's doing a good job with what he has available and he's trying to figure out which players to get the best balance team out there. He does need a couple of Premier League home wins to get the crowd back on board though.

29:27Man United next at the weekend will be interesting. Chris said, can we play like that in the Premier League, please, Tom, in reference to that Champions League win? Not convinced by the quality in the Champions League phase, though, obviously PSG, Bayern and Barca aside, I wonder if a mid-table team in the Premier League is a more difficult task. Just quickly on Tottenham, they've got PSG to come, Dortmund, Frankfurt. I mean, how are they looking, Johnny, do you think, in terms of this competition? And just quickly on their season in general, because as Martin touched on, the home crowd, the atmosphere already.

29:57Yeah, they're looking reasonably well set to at least get into the last 24, aren't they? I mean, Dortmund weren't so great last night against City. I think they need more football in midfield. I think that would be a very general comment about what they're doing and how that relates to how Spurs want to play culturally as a fan base. And I thought that was a big problem against Chelsea. you know they're trying to play a kind of quite a I suppose quite a direct transitions based game and that's not a club that like doing that but I just think the balance when you're looking at midfield of Pelinho who's a great tackler but not a great footballer Benton Kerr I'm not quite sure what he is great at but he's not a silky player I think Bergvold was in the front line, Farr you're just looking at it thinking that doesn't feel like a Spurs team I think they need to play a bit more football, to be quite honest.

30:58There wasn't much finesse against Chelsea. I've never seen so many... Sanchez isn't great coming off his line and I've never seen a game in which he's looked more comfortable coming off the line, catch this, come off the line, catch this because there wasn't the sort of quality in the delivery that was going to test him. Maybe they need a bit more Mickey van der Ven just bursting out from defence. Greg I mean speaking I've asked you once already about an amazing goal from a defender and how the hell do you do that I mean you're not going to ask me this no what I'm going to ask is everything we know about Mickey van der Venn and his pace is this a new attribute to his game he does these runs he does these runs quite frequently he does burst out but he just doesn't keep going the full length of the pitch and then produce like the best sort of most clinical finish you'll ever see could you do that I mean I don't want to take anything away from it but it's funny It's funny because there was that quite allowing that.

31:54There was that kind of clip that was shared that was showing his and Son sort of juxtaposed together and it's like in both occasions there was one defender that just made this wall-y run like stepped out to him and to Son and to Van Venn and just like gave him the easiest sort of bypass where if you back off you've got to make him do something. I'm not taking anything away from it. There was like one defender that should have done better he completely seared past the rest of them. like the guy trying to keep up and he's got the ball as well he's just kept accelerating away from him and as I say the finish you can get there you can get to the box and then like you could have squared it and he just picked out the near post the near corner, brilliant absolutely fantastic, well we used it for a good excuse to go through some of our favourite solo goals on the Times website that article you can find now but let's run through them now Martin I want to come to you last because yours is perhaps the most unique tale to tell.

32:51But yeah, best solo goals then after Mickey van der Ven. We've had some good suggestions from our colleagues. Pete Rutzer said Lionel Messi against Athletic in 2015. Tom Allnut Messi against Getafe. We've had Ryan Giggs, of course. Ricky Villa, John Barnes against Brazil. My suggestion was Gareth Bale, Real Madrid against Barcelona. Any goal where a player runs off the pitch and still is quicker than the opposition player has got to be worth a vote. Johnny, your nomination for best solo goal. Yeah, Scottish child of the 70s has to be Archie Gemmell against Holland in the 78 World Cup. And I mean, it is probably the most iconic goal in Scottish history, rightly.

33:28So what's amazing about it is watching this wee sort of combative Scottish midfielder doing it. And it's a reminder of how we used to produce players who were hard as nails, but also skilful as hell. You know, you have Dame Mackay's and Bremner's and stuff like that. but yeah you watch Gemmell slaloming through the Dutch team who might have been the best team in that World Cup and then picks out a beautiful finish and David Coleman says that's a brilliant individual goal from this hard little professional which that's Scottish kind of and of course cult status by making it into train spotting as well of course that's all I think of when I think of that goal an absolutely brilliant goal Gregor your suggestion I went for Brazilian Ronaldo there was just one goal against Compostela in 1986 there's a little drag back he does he gets the ball on the halfway line and there's a defender trying to kick him and literally pulling his shirt and he's like running away as his shirt's being pulled behind him and there's another defender coming to him and he steps on the ball, drags it back and then pushes it away and just completely flummoxes both of them and then races away and then does that little drop of the shoulder jink to cut inside and finish like just when you think of him in his prime in full flight the kind of marriage of extraordinary like raw power and technical wizardry was just like I don't know he made him unique you've never seen anyone else like that I don't think have those two things together at the same time so I picked that goal yeah absolutely and as I say you can go to YouTube to see Gregor Robertson's impression of R9 it's well worth it it's a lovely little shimmy that you've just done in the studio there Martin, let's finish with you.

35:13This is actually a story that you have mentioned on the podcast before. Have I? It's a goal that no one can ever see, so it's worth you mentioning twice. No, it's true. No one can ever see it. It's Paul Gascoigne against Switzerland B, for England B in Winterthur, I think it's called Winterthur, and in Switzerland, just outside Zurich, 1989, so it's a year before 1991. World Cup. I've got nothing other than what I remember so that's part of the beauty of it. You know there's no YouTube where you can go oh he didn't actually pick up in his own half. He was just outside or he didn't beat eight players.

36:00As I remember it's like Royal Rovers or Escape to Victory picks up the ball in his own penalty area and he starts running and he does the entire Swiss team. In your memory he obviously won't but he beats the entire team and he just goes slamming them the length of the field gets into their penalty area Steve Bull is screaming for it he's just got to roll it into the net that last bit almost happens in slow motion where you can almost you can almost see the cogs working of him thinking no I've come too far for this and he takes it round the keeper and scores and it remains an absolute one of a kind goal and i don't know how anyone got this press box number or whatever phones were ringing from newspapers that weren't there offering your money offering your money to file for them because they'd heard they'd heard that they'd been this goal scored and it was brilliant and then we all went back to the zurich hilton the team and and three or four of us from the press and drank champagne until they ran out of champagne in the Zurich Hill Sounds like a brilliant goal It was a brilliant It was one of the great trips I'm sure it was Loads of great goals suggested I should say as well in that article Diego Maradona's goal was suggested Second best in the football We've overthought it though haven't we?

37:30Everyone has gone I'm not going to do Diego Maradona because everyone will do Diego Maradona and then nobody's done Diego Maradona so that's absolutely ridiculous George Weir as well for AC Milan against Verona as well from one penalty error to the other is also worth a shout out with the Maradona goal there's a guy called Hector Henrique who gives him a three yard pass and he's got a whole after dinner speech based around the fact that it was all about the assist that is excellent excellent work in your post footballing career let's come back to us talk about some football then and talking about a kind of mercurial English talent in Paul Gascold.

38:08And let's quickly mention Phil Foden, two goals for Manchester City in a 4-1 win against Dortmund. Johnny, we've got an England squad being announced in the next 24 hours. Maybe if you're listening to this late on Friday, the squad is already out. But recording this now on Thursday morning, it is quite fascinating that we're going into this squad thinking, is Phil Foden going to be in it? And is Drew Bellingham going to be in it? Well, feel free to say, yeah, it is fascinating. I don't know what the answer is. It's really fascinating. I think they will be, but I'm also conscious some people might be listening on Friday after they're not.

38:39Look, we can't forget about Phil Foden. That's one of the big takeaways of this season. But in particular last night when you're watching, he's unique the way he can finish quite so regularly and easily from outside the box. So fluidly. and when you think about what Tuchel's trying to put in that number 10 position how well Morgan Rodgers has been playing and then the challenge that Bellingham's got which is to be similar but better actually you look at Foden's characteristics and you think well he's got to contend for that position just as strongly because Tuchel wants speed he wants people to move the ball quickly he wants them to be quick in that area and you know if there's one criticism you might have a Jude is he wants to dwell on the ball a little bit quite often he'll turn someone and do something great with it but if it's about speed and connection I mean, I feel Foden's playing, my goodness City are really benefiting here as well you can tell, I'm not suggesting that it's just because he's not in the England set up and that people are discounting but he seems to be playing with a bit of added fierceness to his game him and Cherky is just a joy to watch, that's two people completely on a wavelength and then him Cherky and Harland who's in the form of his life I've enjoyed watching City more this year than for a few years to be honest they're just playing such great football and seeing those connections between the players maybe a bit more space like you know they're playing more kind of direct and transitional and in those moments the opposition aren't set up in quite the same way he's obviously great too at doing the stuff around the box it's really tight and intricate when you're breaking down a little block but there have been moments this season more moments where City are trying to exploit the period of time where the opposition aren't set up like that and so I think maybe you'll see the benefit of that as well but you can't fundamentally I'm smiling when John's doing this don't do this to yourselves again you can't play them all you can't play them all you can look at who the best player in the world is but if Tuchel thinks he's not going to fit into the team the team that's the big thing that was being an improvement and Martin's made the point which is very valid that they've not really been tested yet but the team is the most important thing that's the thing you messed up at in the last Euros Yeah, we'll read Johnny's analysis of that squad when it's announced on the Times website on Friday Gregor, on Monday we talked about Wolves sacking Vitor Pereira and I said we would return to it so let's return to it now It's quite interesting I was looking at the Premier League table after 10 matches last season and this season trying to see if my kind of theory about chaos theory stands that it's all kind of changed at the top and actually the top of the table looks even more boring than it was last season.

41:24There was only two points between Liverpool and Manchester City at 10 games last season. There's six between Arsenal and City this season. One common theme though, Wolves, rock bottom, both seasons. Last season they had three points, this season they've got two. Gary O 'Neill seemingly ruling himself out, linked with Rob Edwards, Eric Ten Haag. I enjoyed that kind of story this week. I'm not sure I fancy that. I'm like, I wouldn't either, Eric, actually. But this is looking bad for Wolves, isn't it? Yeah, well, you'd think if, you know, to make that decision, you would think that they had a thought straight away.

41:56And maybe the thought was Gary O 'Neill, because by the sounds of it, they were surprised when Gary O 'Neill turned them down. They thought, you know, they thought they had Gary O 'Neill. Do you think he'd just noticed that Cunha had left? Do you think he was like, oh, God, no, Cunha. Hang on, Cunha and Ait Nori have gone as well. Actually, lads, sorry, I'm not sure I fancy that. Yeah, I mean, I think he probably looked at the reaction as much as anything else and just thought, which comes back to your point about... Yeah, absolutely, people getting booed into the job. Booed into the job. You know, that's one of the big changes.

42:31People used to get booed out of a job, now they get booed into a job as well. I mean, I think Gary Megson was the first one ever saw that happen. He was actually booed in, can't remember which one of his clubs, was it a Sheffle Wednesday or Coventry? I've got a nice one all for myself. So Gregor started it. But Gary Mason got booed into the job and everything. It was interesting. That piece that someone put at the bottom, that there was a guy that signed for Preston this summer and there was this massive negative, because we hear about that, we see the non-imitore key thing, but you don't necessarily see the nuances of what's going on at Preston.

43:12and he said that this guy was, you know, there was a big sort of backlash against this particular signing and everything like that. This has been our best player all season. If you look at where press nine the league, I mean, they're doing very well. But back to Wolves then, I mean, do we, Johnny Martin, have they got the squad there that if they get the manager right or in this season when it looks more competitive at the bottom? I mean, I'm not writing them off just yet. I know there's lots can change. another 28 games but they don't look like they've got the squad but I'll be honest I would have said that last year and then look at the improvement they made they did make a couple of good January signings didn't they it just it's felt for a while like it's the end of a project that's the problem at Wolves and I think maybe we'll look back and Pereira will be the last sort of throws of it what he did last season but you know they were in a terrible state before then discontent from the fans lack of investment and And we know from history, when a team flirts with relegation enough, it eventually gets it in the end.

44:16So it just feels like it's that season for Wolves. All you'd say to try to give people hope with Wolves is, I would have said a few weeks ago here, and probably did say a few weeks ago, that I can't see how West Ham can possibly get out with that group of players. I just can't see how they can get out. And then you see them play against Newcastle and you think, okay, and I know Newcastle were far from their best, but West Ham were good. West Ham were genuinely good. And you look at that and go, right, okay. Maybe there is a way out. I don't know. Maybe there is a way out. But the competitiveness, it's just interesting looking at the bottom of the table.

45:01Last season, you had Everton in 16th on nine, then Palace on seven, then Ipswich with five points Southampton with four Wolves with three this season that kind of bottom five Leeds have already got 11 Burnley have got 10 West Ham have now got 7 Forest have got 6 and then Wolves on 2 so there is a suggestion that there'll be more points further down the table than the last couple of seasons so that does make it more competitive well isn't there a statistic that no one has got two points after whatever number have stayed up in the Premier League either I think there's a statistic that they've already you know they've already ticked all the boxes for for getting relegated yeah um yeah i you know i thought they would have a manager in place for the chelsea game yeah um and they haven't got a manager in place for the chelsea game and they're now talking about the international break and and you know and then we'll come back and regroup but when you're in that when you're in that probably that state at the bottom there you really haven't got too many games you can just sort of leave it basically yeah we'll leave it we'll start playing when you were a little kid and you went 2-0 down or whatever you suddenly all go right we'll start playing properly now as if you hadn't been playing properly from the start Wolves with a huge game at Chelsea Tottenham Manchester United and of course Manchester City Liverpool this weekend so loads more still to come for us and you can read about it all on the Times website we'll leave it there Johnny Northcroft Martin Samuel and Gregor Robertson thank you very much for joining me thank you too for listening me and Gregor have got another little EFL extra show coming out on Friday and we'll be back with the regular show on Monday.

46:38See you then.