Wirtz to Liverpool and Cherki joins up with Manchester City

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1:55Hello and welcome to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. The Club World Cup is underway with games including a dismal 0-0 draw between Inter Miami and Al-Ali and a farcical 10-0 win for Bayern Munich against Auckland City. On today's show, we'll hear about the opening of the controversial new tournament from Our Man in America. We'll also discuss Manchester City's summer spending and look at another side making moves as Liverpool agree. A huge deal for Florian Wirtz. I'm Tom Clarke and joining me today we have the former footballer and journalist Gregor Robertson who is back home in London and we have our football reporter who normally covers the Manchester clubs but is currently out in America at the Club World Cup.

2:36Paul Hurst is with us. Hurstie, hello. Hello, how are you doing? Yeah, very good, thank you. Whereabouts are you exactly? I'm in Miami. I've just been rollerblading down Ocean Drive. this morning just to kind of just to get warmed up so oh that picture image hair tied back you know wind throwing through the hair you know so yes um honestly please can we like this is where you you guys shouldn't make jokes about this kind of thing with one of someone who's responsible for coming up with ideas because now i don't care about anything else other than making that happen that's what i really really want that's what ai exists for you know it can happen it's possible.

3:15There's an idea well speaking of entertainment like you rollerblading down the boardwalk that is a big part of this Club World Cup and the opening stages and your brilliant piece that's on the Times website now Paul before we get on to the football and we're going to ask you about Manchester City in particular just give us a sense give the listeners a sense of what you've found from the tournament so far and reference some of the things that were in your excellent piece from that opening game and that opening ceremony Well, this is, you know, this is the Club World Cup, you know, 64 games in four weeks across America.

3:48Gianni, Infantino's brainchild. And it is, you know, bringing clubs from six different continents to this championship. And it has been billed as such a big thing. It's Infantino's big kind of project. But, you know, just walking around here, you just wouldn't know that it was going on. It's such a non-event, really. there's been a couple of advertisements knocking around but nothing really huge promoting the tournament and the opening fixture as you said was against, was Inter Miami the local team against Al-Ali of Egypt and it was a 0-0 draw which is probably you know, it's probably not what they wanted, they don't like a draw over here, the Americans they don't like a tie so So I wondered whether they were going to have a penalty shootout afterwards from 20 yards or whatever it was.

4:43But, yeah, it's a very strange event. Lots of fireworks, you know, lots of celebrities there. Sir David was there in a very nice blue suit. Obviously, Pat Horner, Bex's of Inter Miami. Infantino was there, obviously. Ronaldo, a couple of YouTubers. That guy, Eyeshow Speed, he was part of this halftime show. which involved trying to hit the crossbar which he failed miserably at but Del Piero landed his first time which is that's nice to know still a bit of class still a bit of class class is permanent etc so it's all been a bit a bit of a strange build up to the first game the first game was pretty pretty dull to be honest it's very poor quality at one point one journalist in the press box said can we put another game on please it was just such a It was such a...

5:38So drab. And Al Ali should have won 4-5-0. They missed a penalty. But in terms of the security operation was huge around the stadium. There were a lot of people from ICE, you know, and the counter-terrorism group as well. So it all felt very... I didn't feel on edge, but I just felt it was a bit maybe... It wasn't exactly welcoming. No. and they threw this huge ring of steel around. It doesn't sound like the kind of joy, you know, you've done international tournaments before with, you know, for countries and things and, you know, I've been to them as a fan and there's this such huge excitement.

6:19It doesn't sound like, you know, you're getting off the plane at airports and going through terminals and things with posters. Is that not what's happening? Is that not the feel that you've got? Exactly. I do get you have to have a ring of steel, you know, security is paramount at this kind of event, but that seemed a little bit over the top on Saturday. And you are right, in terms of the general atmosphere, went to the Euros last year and it was just absolutely fantastic. You know, walking down streets in Germany, you'd have, you know, Scotland fans, the Dutch, you know, and England fans and Germans all like mixing together and having a good time and just generally talking about football.

6:56But here it's very, there's been very few fans, you know, clearly kind of buying into it. And over the last couple of days, We've seen more Boca Juniors fans. They're playing here in Miami a couple of their games. So maybe that'll change. But the ticket sales haven't been great either. They started off for the opening match at$300 and then they knocked them down to$20. So that tells you how those ticket sales went. I think it was a bad idea putting it into Miami on as the first game here. Or it sounds a bit silly given they are the home team. but if you are a local person who wants to see Messi, you will have seen him already, you know, because he's been here two years.

7:40You know, he's played for Inter Miami for two years and they played in a smaller stadium in Fort Lauderdale, which is about an hour from here. So, and Al Alhi weren't the big name that everyone expected, even though they're actually a far better team on the opening night. So, it has been a bit... FIFA seem to have done everything they can to get Inter Miami and Messi into this tournament. And that's the price that they're having to pay, that no one's actually that interested in this tournament. Hirstie, I'm just going to play devil's advocate here. Even in the World Cup, a team like Qatar or whoever was hammered, there's going to be teams there.

8:19Any part of you feels like it's likely to gain momentum when the bigger teams progress and we see who it really is going to mean something to? Yeah, definitely. I do realise I sound like I'm moaning a little bit No no this is the general sort of attitude for swathes of Europe but as you said teams from South America supporters from South America I'm sure people in the stadium there'll be enthusiasm but I'm just wondering whether it's going to spread No it will take off I'm sure that I think when it gets to knockout stages it will be a lot more interesting for people here and back home as well I think you're right particularly when it comes to the I mean, this is a 32-team tournament, so it's not like the expanded World Cup here next year, but even in the Euros last year, some of the group games were so boring, weren't they?

9:12And you just had to kind of get through that and get ready for knockout stages. It was the same in the last World Cup as well. Some of the group stage games were just so tedious. So we are going to have games that aren't going to be exciting, they are going to get a Bayern Munich winning 10-0 against a part-time team from New Zealand in Auckland. It's just going to happen, isn't it? But once you get, for example, in the second round, if City don't win their group, they'll be playing Real Madrid here in Miami and that will just be a huge game. So, yeah, no, I think it will take off. I think it will gain momentum in the end.

9:53I just think it might be a slow burner. Paul, I'm going to ask you in a sec just about City specifically and players and the kind of approach that the teams are taking. But Greg, I kind of was thinking about this show and we're not really touched on in too much detail the idea of being a player at this tournament. And we talked so much, even before this tournament happened, about the amount of games that people play. I mean, there will be a lot of players, won't there? Or to correct me if I'm wrong, that will be thinking, why the hell are we here? We're kind of saying it as a given that there's this perception of this tournament, particularly in Europe as we've said that oh this is a bit of a joke what's going on but as someone who played the game the idea and now players play even more than they did when you were playing and then adding this tournament in there's going to be an apathy from the playing side as well surely Yeah I think it's probably going to be a bit divided I think as we've said there are different attitudes towards this from different parts of the world I mean the idea that Auckland you know whose players are all us as we're still saying are part time and you know are coming out to have to take time off work to come out here and you know this is a kind of once in a lifetime opportunity really and then teams from South America their players will see it as a kind of shop window and actually there's always been a kind of different a different attitude towards this competition you know even smaller guys historically from teams from South America and in Europe I watched the PSG atletico game and it looked competitive, you know, it was competitive but it did also just have, I don't know whether it's the context around it I think that was at the Rose Bowl it did look like a bit of a pre-season competition and let's be honest, they're competitive too they have a slightly different vibe but you know, it's the start of the season, teams are preparing, these are the best players on the planet and they're always competitive so when you put them on the pitch it will be that way and I think it will probably build some momentum as it goes on because it's the first of its kind as well and it's kind of it's still always you know remember when Liverpool won the the Club World Cup it meant something you know it did so it will it will it will eventually mean something but I think in these early stages we'll definitely see sort of very different attitudes from from teams from different parts of the world yeah Paul how does that tally with your interpretation generally being out there, but also with Manchester City.

12:23They're the reason you're there. Obviously, our colleague Pete Rutzler's out there following Chelsea, who are playing tonight. We're recording this pod on Monday. Chelsea play LAFC tonight. How does that tally with what Gregor says, with your perception of how City are approaching this tournament, how Pep Guardiola's looking at it? Well, I think we've been up to the Manchester City trading ground in Boca Raton a couple of times now. And what the most interesting thing for me is that they are treating this you talk to people around the club and they say that they are treating this as their pre-season this is the start of their season so that for me is interesting and that is probably a lot of that is to do with the mindset isn't it you can't just because otherwise you treat it as a you know a bit of an end of season jolly really and so they they are treating this you know very very seriously and you know you look at the prize money and you can see why you know if they win it i think you can win up to£117 million.

13:21It's just ridiculous. It's like winning the Champions League, isn't it? So they are taking it seriously. They are. We looked at them. We've been to a couple of training sessions, like I said, and they look really sharp, the City players. Maybe it's the fact that we got really close to them because we were pitch side, but some of the passing moves were just really slick. The rondos that they were doing, The one-touch rondoers were really animated. Everyone was diving in and trying to win the ball back. And they look in really good Nick City. You look at people like Rodri looks in great condition, Ruben Diaz as well.

14:03So, yeah, in terms of the physical preparedness that they are there, it will be interesting to see if City do allow us to speak to Rodri. Because I remember a few months ago in that press conference, one of the press conferences he was asked would you consider striking if if if the workload got too much because he's been one of the players who's been most outspoken about you know an increased workload for the players players playing too many games etc so it'll be interesting to see whether he'd he's quite a straight talking guy Roger he probably would answer that quite straight he probably would say in an ideal world I wouldn't want to be here but you know again it comes down to money doesn't it money talks you know the City's accountants and the Chief Exec Ferran Soriano will be looking at that match against Wydar Casablanca the first one on Wednesday thinking that's an opportunity to bank I think it's 1.5 million for a group win just for that group win so I've got the full details here by the way Hurst just to say reaching the round of 16 it is worth a further 5.5 million the quarter finals another 9.74 semi-finals 15.5 and then advancing to the final is 22.28 and as you mentioned at the top there if they win all three group stage games and go on to win the tournament it's a total of 117 million as you say which is absolutely massive Gregor but it's not it's also not as straightforward as that the appearance fees going to the dozen teams from Europe are on a sliding scale owing to sporting and commercial criteria so that just adds to the sort of stink of it a little bit and how much this is about you know is about money and that just another, I saw there was, I think it was the Seattle Sevenths, but it was definitely in a US one of the US teams, and they wore like a t-shirt saying like, you know, basically they're really upset, I think I said we want our fair share or something they're really upset that they're kind of they've got another competition wedged into the calendar and they're not actually, you know going to see any of the money that the clubs are going to make or not much, it would be interesting, I would actually be interested to know as well what the bonus would be for for winning this if you're a Man City player or a Chelsea player.

16:18That's true as well. There you go, Hersty. There's something for you to find out. But in relation to coming back to City just very quickly, because obviously an interesting season for Pep Guardiola as a manager and for him. But the idea, listening to you there talking about how fresh and sharp they look in training, there'll be a part of him that will want to add the Club World Cup to his long list of trophies, won't there? He might say, oh, it's quite a few games, but at the end of the day, if he can say, I've won the club World Cup, then he really can say, I've won it all. Yeah, it's another one for him to win.

16:53Like you said, well, technically they are world champions, aren't they? But it was like the shortened version. They only had to win two matches last time. So yeah, definitely it kind of feeds into that. You know, it feeds into the hunger that he's got. And again, just looking how, just talking to people around the training ground, they were saying that he's really had a spring in his steps since he came back. He's really energised, even after a short break. So he wants to win it. I remember when they won it last time, when they won the shorter format, they lined all the trophies that they won up in the dressing room.

17:32And that is, you know, that picture for them kind of sums up, you know, the Guardiola kind of project. this is what we got him here for, this is why we appointed him as manager and this is what he brings to the club and obviously with the investment in the players as well. That's what they're seeking as a club. Especially after such a bad season, a trophy-less season last year, this will be something that they're really desperate to get their hands on. Yeah, obviously part of that excitement for Guardiola might stem from the fact City have made some early moves in the transfer window. And as you say, with wanting to treat this as a pre-season tournament, that makes more sense.

18:15Ryan Aitnori, Rayan Cherky, Tijani Rinders, three of the players coming in. Just very quickly on Ryan Cherky, on the back pages of all the newspapers today, very quickly trying to endear himself to Man City fans with a few comments about Manchester United. Yeah, really making an understated start to his Man City career. He's a bit of a character. which I thought I'd read about him before we spoke to him, and I thought he does sound a bit of a firebrand, really. He's not afraid, basically, of saying controversial things. And then we spoke to him for five minutes, and he insisted on speaking English, which shows how confident he is.

19:01And his English was okay, to be fair. and someone asked him about the fact that he'd scored twice against Man United last season. And he'd celebrated by grabbing his crotch in the direction of the United fans at Old Trafford. And he said, yeah, that match, I was gutted to lose it. So I can't wait to kill them next season. So like you say, he's already got the brownie points. He's got brownie points for me as well as the person who was editing on a quiet Sunday yesterday. when I woke up to an email from you to say that the City knew sign in and had a pop at Man United, I was like, perfect, thanks very much.

19:39Excellent stuff. Also, by the time listeners are listening to this, they'll be able to read also some words from Tijani Rinders, the new midfielder. Tell us a little bit more about him and about what your experience was chatting to him and also how you might think he might fit into the team or indeed how he thinks he might fit into the team. Well, it was interesting when we were talking to him that he said that City, that Pepa told him He needs a number eight. City really missed, obviously, Rodri last season, playing as the defensive midfielder, but they didn't really have a consistent number eight played alongside him, played alongside the defensive midfielder.

20:16Gundogan wasn't a very good last season. He came decent towards the end of the campaign, but for most of the season he wasn't very good. Bernardo Silva as well was used there, but he wasn't at his best either. So that role is basically open for him if he wants to take it. And he thinks he can add goals to the squad, which is important because you look at last season, there were only two players that made double figures for City. And the second one, Foden only just scraped in. Obviously, Haaland was the top scorer. But I was just thinking back in time towards the previous seasons under Pep, you used to have six or seven players getting 10 goals a season, getting double figures.

20:58So that is what he wants to do, Rangers. I think he got 12 goals last season for AC Milan. And looking at some of the footage of him playing, he's the kind of guy that is box to box. He's very creative, very energetic. And he contributes with goals as well. So that is exactly what Pep wants from him this season. And he's just got to adapt quickly. And if he does, that slot is open for him. Firstly, just one more on Cherokee. In your report, he was saying that Pep, you get a wee insight into Pep's conversations with these players before they're coming in and he's saying when you have the ball you're free like how many players is that being true of like Jack Grealish free when he gets the ball and think he's in for a rude awakening well it did sound a bit like a Harry Rennapp instruction didn't it you know just run about a bit like he's also Van de Vaart off the bench yeah just get the ball and run mate that was it was illuminated for me that I agree, it is very interesting.

22:01And I just, that to me, I think he was mainly talking about, not in a positional sense, it was sort of like giving him responsibility. I just think he's, Pep is really excited about, judging from what we heard from Cherki, he's really excited to be working with him. Maybe this is, you know, as a result of Cherki's self-confidence, you know, he's really excited to be working with me. but I just get the impression that he will probably slot into that number 10 position he'll play just off Harlan's shoulder and he was very quick to say I'm not Kevin De Bruyne and obviously they're different people different players, different styles but he can play that I think he played on the right when he played at Old Trafford he was devastating then but since he's got plenty of wingers as it is I just think I can see him playing in that role just behind Harland.

22:57So that is, you know, it's another string to the bow. And I'm saying that here, you know, God knows, we might get to the game on Wednesday and Pep will line up in like a 2-7-1 or something like that. You know, we just don't know. And last season, he ended up playing, you know, 4-2-2-2. And that's another possibility with Cherky playing alongside Harland. so it's he definitely adds a lot of he gives them a lot of possibilities and he's got that pace he's got that creativity as well so and he's got an eye for goal and he's like I say he's a bit of a character as well so it's for me he's the most interesting interesting signing they've made this season Just thirsty with it being a World Cup year I'm just listening to you talk there and thinking about Harland and Marmouche obviously were signed in January then Cherokee sounds like real potential I mean obviously impossible to predict As you say, we don't know what the line-ups are going to be during this tournament.

23:53But are we teeing up for quite a big season for Phil Foden here? Just after maybe not hitting the heights last season that he had done previously. I don't want to start into speculation, but I'm going to anyway. Just with Jack Grealish going off the ball at City, is there a bit of pressure on Phil Foden to step up to the plate here? There is, and I forgot to mention him earlier, actually. When we turned up to the training ground the other day, he was there. and we said hello to him as he walked past and he was saying hello to one of his colleagues and he looks in good, Nick, as well. He looks refreshed.

24:26He looks as if he's spent a bit of time in the gym. And he looks... Speaking to him towards the end of last season, after the FA Cup final, he just really... He looked as if he needed to get something off his chest. I remember he was walking through the mix zone and I just said, oh Phil any chance of a chat and he I had absolutely no idea that he was going to come over but he did and he I didn't think he'd come over at all and talk but he did end up spending six minutes talking to us like opening up about how he'd had struggles off the off the pitch last season um and he was trying to get over them and he was he said then I need a rest I need a rest so he was left out in the England squad wasn't he so he had those couple of weeks and I think I think that has done him the world of good just by looking at him.

25:15The other thing that City have been very good at here is they've allowed the families to come over. See, that to me is a very clever move because they could be away for five weeks. So that really helps. So that will help him and the other players with families as well. But going back to the original point, yeah, it's a huge season for him. People don't realise he's got two years left on his contract as well. So it's getting to that point where it's stick or twist really. and he was just lacking that bit of spark last year. You could tell that something was affecting him. And then he said in that interview after the FA Cup final, I've had a niggling ankle problem for the last three months and I feel it every time I go back on the pitch.

25:55So maybe that's cleared up a little bit now. He certainly, like I said, he looks very fresh and we were talking about all those new signings. Maybe he's, that number 10 slot could become his if he, I think it would probably be him and Cherky vying for that role so it is a huge season for him and we went for Verts, he was the main guy that they were trying to buy City so that should be a bit of a warning sign to him really, he was the main target and he was in the position that Foden plays but when they didn't get Verts City said, look don't forget we've got Phil and he can we saw what he did the season before last so they're counting on him to come up with the gloves again this season there's no doubt about that Very interesting, we'll see what the summer holds for Phil Foden and Manchester City you can keep up to date with all the latest on them and the Club World Cup by following Paul Hurst and his work on the Times website Hurst, thank you very much for joining us we'll hopefully hear from you again soon Cheers guys, thanks Paul Hurst there with the latest from the Club World Cup and the Manchester City camp it's time for a little break which means it's just Gregor for the quiz question this week.

27:05Pressure on, mate. Who am I talking about when I say a former footballer who played for Newcastle, Tottenham, Marseille, Sheffield Wednesday, Bradford City, Burnley, Worksop Town and many others and in 1989 was the third most valuable player in the world. Nice and easy for the off-season. This one, find out after the break.

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29:46For the ones who get it done.

29:57Welcome back to the Game Football Podcast from The Times. I'm Tom Clark and I've just, just, just for this one moment, just got Gregor Robertson with me. We had Paul Hurst with me for the first half of the show. We've got another Times journalist joining us in a second, but thankfully Gregor had the answer to the quiz question, which was... Chris Waddell. Chris Waddell, absolutely. Now, speaking of players who are very, very valuable, we discussed in the first half of the show the big spending of Manchester City, but it's the Premier League champions who look to have made the biggest statement in the transfer market so far.

30:29Liverpool agreeing to sign by a Leverkusen star Florian Wurtz in a deal which could be as much as£116 million. Earlier, I caught up with The Times' Northern football correspondent, Paul Joyce, to tell us about how the deal came together and what it might mean for Arnie Slott's side. Paul, welcome back to the game podcast. Now, lots to talk about with this transfer, this huge, huge transfer from Liverpool. Tell us a little bit, you've written in your piece on the Times website about how the transfer happened and the key role that Liverpool manager Arnie Slott played. Yeah, well, I think Virts has been a player that Liverpool, like every big club, has known about for a long time since he sort of, you know, was doing big things as a youngster at Cologne and that all the major clubs were sort of on to him.

31:16So it's not a case really that they had any sort of head start in that sense. I think obviously the player was considering his future this summer and he was open-minded enough not to just be sort of press ganged into a move to Bayern Munich. And that's really where the opportunity came for Liverpool in that he was prepared to listen to a few clubs and weigh up their pitches. So one was Manchester City, one was Bayern Munich, one was Liverpool. And there was talk of Real Madrid as well, though I think they maybe had other priorities. But I think there was almost a perfect storm where the Liverpool sort of pitch came from.

31:58I think it was a more straightforward pitch from Arna Slott to the player, you know, come and be the sort of hub around which Liverpool moves forward now. Now, that's probably a little bit more difficult for Bayern Munich because they've got Musiala and I think maybe Manchester City would say otherwise, but they said that it was a cost of the deal. But there's also doubts about how long Pep Guardiola will stay there. And really, if you go to Man City, you're probably going to work under the best manager of the modern era. Whereas I think Liverpool's appeal was probably a bit broader, really. I think Slott is a big part of that in the way that, as we said in the last podcast, that he's been able to improve players.

32:46And not just younger players, but established players like Van Dijk and Salah. I think he's got a very clear sort of vision of where he wants to take Liverpool. I think the fact that Liverpool had just become title winners was big. the best team in England. And also I do think other supporters might think it's a bit of a cliche, but I do think the sort of passion and mobilisation of the fans and the team around those title celebrations was quite an alluring prospect for a new signing, looking in from the outside. I know every team will say that and it's often said about Liverpool, but I do think that those sort of images that we saw at the end of the season would be maybe intoxicating for a player.

33:35So I think all those things came together and yeah, it was described to me as sort of Liverpool's persistence and also their ambition. Yeah. I sort of think it's probably a little bit of opportunism as well. But yeah, and then they've managed to pull off the deal pending the medical now. And one of the things I've found really interesting is the level of anticipation for this signing is amongst Liverpool fans is obviously huge, but you hear some things within the sort of football industry that people think within the industry feel it's a major coup for Liverpool. I think if people read Johnny Northcroft's piece from the Sunday Times at the weekend, he spoke about somebody at a football club saying it's an unbelievable signing.

34:25some people I've spoken to away from Liverpool described it as sort of sensational which I think that's the sort of true sort of barometer. You know, obviously when these things get announced everybody always looks at the YouTube clips and the little packages that show everything that the player does well but when you get in front of other people outside of Liverpool who would potentially want to knock this sort of signing that they seem to think that Liverpool's conviction is well placed. That's the interesting thing for me. Listen, he has to go and back it up now. And I think it was Philip Lahn, the Germany fullback, said that he's got to prove he can be, his quote was physically durable.

35:13So that's going to be interesting. Maybe there'll be a little period of adjustment. that's been quite common for other players coming into England to deal with. And also, because the build-up's been so huge, you can't imagine many teams allowing him to have too much time on the ball and things like that. So there is going to be a little, you know, it'll be interesting to see whether he can hit the ground running, but the feeling outside, you know, supporter-wise but also the feeling within the game indicates that he's going to be a player to watch this season most definitely. Yeah, absolutely.

35:55I mean, you touched on it there and in your previous appearance recently talking about that title win, we talked about how this was almost the plan because they kind of wrapped up the title quite early and did it incredibly efficiently, if you like, that it was almost like this was the rebuild summer. How significant do you think it is? You touched on it slightly there, but as a statement for title winners to make early signings and also to make a signing of this stature, as you say, one of the most sought-after players, 22, attacking player, and it's a deal that could become 116 million. I mean, that is huge.

36:31This is a massive statement from Liverpool, isn't it? And not always something that they've done before. Just how significant do you think that is for the Arnie Slott era taking off as chapter two, if you like? Yeah, I think that's a good point. I think it shows how well the transition from Klopp has been. I'm not sure Liverpool maybe would have thought they'd be in this position where they'd be spending so much money on a player. I think they have shown in the past that they've been prepared to spend the money when necessary on players that they think can be transformational. The two obvious examples are Van Dijk and Alisson.

37:07I think what the deal shows is that Liverpool is probably the Premier League's model club in a way in terms of how the club is run so if you go back a year ago they've done the homework on slot they wanted to see they thought he would improve players yeah and they wanted to see how he would work with the the existing squad that had just fallen short and in 23 24 i mean Liverpool was still five points clear going into the start of April then so it was the the sort of last six weeks of the Klopp era where they fell by the wayside. I think they're reaping the rewards of having that disciplined vision and strategy whereby they don't just decide, okay, well, there's a new manager coming in.

37:57We need to support the new manager with two or three signings that would cost£80 million. They obviously bought Federico Keiser, who was£10 million. But when Zubamendi collapsed, for example, they didn't think, oh, we need to do another transfer because it's highly probable if they had done transfers then. Or even in January, I mean, there was that clamour in January where it looked like they were on course for the title, you know, and everybody said, oh, they need to strengthen now just to make sure they'll get across the line. If they do those things, they probably don't have the money to do Verts now.

38:34So I think when you look at how the club sort of shuts out the noise and sticks to its strategy, whether that comes from sort of Michael Edwards and then, you know, into Richard Hughes. When I look at sort of other clubs, probably Man United is the, you know, big example. It just seems less, it just, it almost seems like on the hoof at times, a little bit at Man United. And I think there's a bit more of a strategy at Liverpool and that's sort of the reward of that strategy is a signing like this and being in a position to, as you said, go early in the transfer market because I think a big part of last summer was they didn't really have a pre-season to train because of Copa America and the Euros.

39:22I'm pretty sure that Slott will want all of his – no, he'll want a number of his signings in by July the 8th, which is when they're back in pre-season training. and then he can really sort of hammer home the sort of commandments that he wants to go into the season with. Yeah, you mentioned earlier about Verts kind of fitting in and being seen certainly the sell from the club to him as you can be the fulcrum of this team for the future. Just in terms of that team for the future then we mentioned potentially other signings and Slott wanting to do more business. What do you think the club's transfer strategy is going to be now once they get this deal completed as you say once the medical is sorted?

40:04Other players coming in, players going out. What can Liverpool fans maybe expect? I think obviously the next one is probably going to be a left-back and they've been heavily linked with Kirkes and that's ongoing at Bournemouth. I think there will be an element of trading if they can trade some players and in that sense what comes next for Liverpool is maybe a little bit dependent on what happens in terms of outgoings. centre-back is potentially an area because Canate's into the final year of his deal there was a reporting marker over the weekend that Real Madrid want to sign him on a free which given everything that's just transpired won't be well received there's been talk about Jarrell Kwanza who's with the under-21s at the moment whether he moves on because he wanted a bit more football and then there's, we mentioned him before Chiesa, Harvey Elliott, Darwin Nunes, Luis Diaz, obviously there's a bit of noise around him.

41:05There's a report this morning in Sport, the Catalan paper that Barcelona has set a limit of 60 million euros to buy him. My gut feeling is that will be nowhere near enough to get Luis Diaz out of Liverpool this summer. so for a team that won the title sort of so convincingly last season there is you know as we've spoken about before quite a lot of uncertainty still swirling around the team I think Liverpool will have a lot of plans in terms of where they move if certain players leave but I think it's important for them from their self-sustaining model which has sort of underpinned all the Fenway Sports Group's reign that there is some trading going on.

41:53Obviously, they've sold Kelleher. They got some money in for Trent. But if they get Kirkes, then I think the spending goes over 200 million already with Fring Pong and Marmadashvili, the goalkeeper who is coming in this summer. So, yeah, I think it's been a busy sort of start to the summer. And I think that will continue at Liverpool. But lots of sort of opportunities for slot now, I'd say. I think it's funny. You sort of introduce one player in Virts and then there's sort of maybe multiple ways in which he can play as a number 10, as a false nine maybe. We saw in the Manchester City game away when they won 2-0, that was the sort of day that everybody thought, well, that's the title, sort of wrapped up where they played two 10s in Curtis Jones and Sir Bosley.

42:43Is that something that he does more often? There really is. It does feel like there's a lot of different permutations. And obviously we saw one of Slott's great strengths last season was how he was able to affect matches within games, not just in terms of starting lineups. I think there was a lot of times in the second half of matches where he made little changes and that helped Liverpool get over the line. So you think for a coach of his sort of tactical acumen that he's got all these options now. I think that's quite exciting for Liverpool supporters. Yeah, absolutely. Some big moves from the champions and lots more still to come, you sense.

43:25Paul Joyce, thank you very much for joining us on the game podcast. I'm sure we'll be hearing from you again during the summer. Speak to you soon, Paul. Thank you. No problem, thanks. Gregor, loads of interesting insights from Paul Joyce there. When you think about what City have done, and we were talking with Paul Hurst in the first half of the show, and hearing from Paul Joyce there about Liverpool, and then you think of Tottenham changing manager, Man United have already made a good move in signing Cunha and linked with other players. We're only on June 16th and I keep banging on about this narrative in football that it never ends, but these clubs are being pretty ruthless and getting deals done early.

44:00What do you make of the kind of layout of the Premier League so far, whether it's the teams that are making the moves or for some worried fans out there, the teams who aren't making moves? Yeah, it does certainly feel like it's going to be a summer of big change I think the Club World Cup has thrown something interesting into the mix in that there was that sort of small pause in the window and in that first week or so I think about£400 million was spent it's like people were ready to go and I think as the summer progresses there'll be a lot more I think it could be a very big spending summer and also Manchester United and Spurs two very big anomalies last season in terms of the depths they plumbed and understandably they're going to be doing everything within their power to turn that around Frank's move has thrown the spanner and it works with Brian Mbwemo potential transfer to Manchester United he looks like he'll have a decision to make there now and just listen to Hurstey's talk there as well about the way Manchester City's attitude towards the Club World Cup and it's going to be like this is the pre-season for them and actually when he was talking there about Phil Foden and looking refreshed I kind of thought how can he be refreshed they've not had the break yet but then I look back and the FA Cup final was actually like a month ago now it was a bit earlier this year and so you can see the logic there They have possibly had a little bit of a break already, some players like that.

45:43And then they did their business early. They're all together to go out here for potentially four or five weeks. And then they'll have another little break. It's not going to be the normal procedure, but you can see the logic there for a preparation. It's going to be more difficult for Chelsea to do that, obviously, after their season went a bit longer with the Conference League final. But again, they've already spent 90-odd million. and they were ready to go with some like Liam De Lappe and more young players thrown into the mix. And then you've got Brighton as well, another who were clearly ready to go.

46:21They signed an 18-year-old Greek forward, Kostoulas from Olympiakos, and they signed another Greece under-21 player in January who's going to join up with them this season. So they've potentially seen another sort of market there to delve into so I think there's going to be a lot of interesting things. The one kind of quiet area, really quiet area is the promoted teams I mean Burnley lost CJ Egan-Riley to Marseille that's like a great move for him he was part of the best defence in championship history former Chelsea Academy player but he's offer Champions League football under De Zerbe so not much happening at Leeds they signed a Germany forward Lucas Nemecha but I don't know if they're going to hang their hat on him to get them goals, Sunderland not done much yet so it's early, it's early it's just that the World Cup has kind of thrown a big spanner in the works and made it a sort of different, a very different sort of context for the teams involved there and also the clubs that they're trying to sign their players from so yeah strange summer but I think it's going to be a very busy one Yeah, very busy one indeed lots more deals to come and you can keep up to date with all the latest transfer news by following all the movements on the Times Sport website Gregor Robertson thank you very much for joining me as always thank you too to Paul Hurst and Paul Joyce for coming on the show we'll be back on Thursday with more updates from the Club World Cup and the latest transfer news we'll see you then

48:13Thank you.

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