WORLD CUP 2026 - LIVE PREVIEW SHOW

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1:22Hamza Khalid Luna and Johnny Northcroft, and me, Tom Clark, as the host. We covered England, Scotland, the wider tournament, what we can expect from the conditions and some of the old stars, hoping to deliver on the biggest stage for one last time. We hope you enjoy it. I'll be back at the end to tell you about our other specials we've got coming up. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Well, it's all done.

1:54Who clapped? Bonus points for the gentleman who over clapped as we were walking out. Hello, everyone. Welcome to this Times event to preview the 2026 World Cup. I'm Tom Clark. I'm the sports editor at the Times. I'm the host of our football podcast, The Game. And I've got the pleasure of being your host this evening's event as well. Just to give you a quick layout of the evening, me and the guys up here will have a bit of a chat, which is also going to be an episode of The Game podcast. So congratulations. you're all part of the team now we'll then open it up to some questions from the floor and we'll be milling around afterwards as well if you've got any further questions and if anyone wants to just chat to me about Lincoln City's amazing season I'm right here for you Martin's had enough of it it's almost like I'm a West Ham fan everybody we've started early we've started very very early if you are a Time subscriber thank you very much for being with us for this remarkable football season and if you're not, hopefully this event might persuade you to subscribe.

2:53Come and have a chat to me afterwards and I might try and get you to sign up on the spot. Now, to introduce our brilliant panel, next to me we have the Chief Correspondent for the Times and Sunday Times and a journalist who is heading to cover his ninth World Cup. It's Martin Samuel. Next to him we have the Chief Football Correspondent for the Sunday Times and the Times and the two-times Football Journalist of the Year, Johnny Northcroft. Next to him we have the Football Reporter and two-times Sports Data Journalist of the Year, Hamza, Khalid, Luna and on the very end the Times columnist and former footballer who played for many clubs from Millwall to Marseille and went to two World Cups with the Republic of Ireland.

3:29It's Tony Cascarino. Now we're going to get well stuck into loads of good topics and deep debate but I wanted to just start. It's very hot outside. Thankfully we've got air conditioning in here but let's just take the temperature, sorry excuse the pun, about England's chances just so we know where we are. But before I do that, how many Scotland fans in the audience? show of hands one two Johnny that's your guy that's your guy but firstly on England then Martin just a quick where are you looking at it before you head out to the US must make the final semi-finals at best what are you thinking it's very hard to say with England because we haven't really played anybody and everybody that we have played keeps beating us which is a little bit boring.

4:18So you don't really know. Look, the players we've got, we should win the group. Then if you win the group, that round of 32, you should fancy your chances in that. After that, it then becomes tricky because you could end up playing Mexico in Mexico City, which is tough just because of the heat, because of the conditions, then you could end up playing Brazil in the quarterfinals. I don't think Brazil are necessarily what they once were, but it's still Brazil in the quarterfinals. And I've seen us play Brazil in the quarterfinals, and it didn't end well. And it was in Chisroca. And I didn't even think it was that hot.

5:09And we've never stopped complaining about the heat in Chisroca, so we've got to go to Miami in July. and Thomas Tuchel has picked a team that's an athletic team. If you look at everything that's been prioritised, it's all to do with athleticism. But other teams have got athletes as well. That's the one problem with athleticism. It's the thing that you can all do, basically. You can all get fit. You can all run about. You can't all be Lionel Messi. So.

5:42Not confident. I tell you, look, I don't want to be... Look, you good people have all come out here and you've actually spent money on this and thank you for that as well. So I don't want to start off on a massive downer because everyone wants you to say, here we go. But? But I think it will be tough. I think it could be tough. It will be tough. Johnny, would you agree with Martin? What do you think is the base level before we get into squad analysis, players that they've got, players that they've left behind? What do you think the FA, what's the minimum expectation, do we think? Well, I mean, England are ranked in the top four in the world, so that tells you semifinals should be the expectation.

6:28And then you also think from an FA point of view, they had a manager who got them to two finals. and when they parted with him told us that they were going for that guy that was going to put the second star on the shirt so that's what Thomas Tuchel's there to do the FA's expectation should be and is I think to try and win the tournament but when you look at the as Martin's outlined some of the challenges of the draw I mean it's I was looking at it again today and it's maybe at the time it hadn't really sunk in how difficult it is, but before you even get to Mexico and Mexico City round of 32 could be Norway or Senegal neither of which would be easy I think this generation of England players has got tournament know-how, have reached two finals I think should be making the last four and after that it depends what happens but there's the conditions there is things like there's a couple of key areas in that squad that if there was an injury you'd really worry Harry Kane the most obvious but I'd say Declan Rice maybe even Rhys James who's quite fragile, you look at what they do with the back up in certain positions the fascinating thing with Thomas Tuchel and it's the joy of covering him is he can win it but he could also be a disaster and that is what he brings, that's what he's brought throughout his whole career.

8:01He's been that kind of manager of extremes. I think we've seen that already. I felt covering England in the autumn, I was there with Martins in Serbia with the 5-0 away, backed up by the performance against Wales and away to Latvia. I thought for a brief time, England were as good as I've seen at any point of covering the England team. And that goes back to 2002. and two but they were awful in March and as Martin points out they've lost every top 20 team they've played so going into this thinking that this is a team that can win but the wheels can fall off we're getting a bit of fence sitting aren't we here guys need some semi-final need some youthful exuberance from Hamza to bring what are you going Hamza base level semi-finals final I think semi-final should be the minimum expectation as Johnny mentioned the rank 4th in the world given the finances behind England and English football it would be embarrassing to go out before the 16 I think yeah that's what we like punchy opinions that's what we want on the game podcast Tony I'm optimistic yeah purely because if you look at the forward line there's three forwards there that have been selected and we've all got loads of goals yeah and I think if England could be brave look there's knockout football which is the group stages.

9:29Once you get to the knockout stage, you play against the elite sides. That's the test in World Cups. You know, we, with Ireland, we made the quarterfinals. But we came out of a group of Egypt, the Netherlands and England, which was a really tough group. But when you got to the knockout stage, it kicked on again, which we ended up losing to Italy. But I think, go on, just a question. How useful were... Questions are at 7.45. How useful were But the qualifying matches you had against good teams, are you actually gauging your quality? They were... Our games were all based on the climate. We went to Turkey and played.

10:11We played in Malta as well for World Cup 90 because Jack was so bothered about the conditions with the weather. Then we got to America and he was even worse. Chad Shulton, he wouldn't let you walk outside for five minutes. He'd say, get back in, wear a cap, He screamed at me one day, saying, get back in, you'll be no good to us. I said, Jack, I'm not even playing. I'm not in the squad. And he went, I don't care. Get in. Which was funny. That was him. But the conditions were a big issue in America. And a lot of people remember the Aldridge, Jack Charlton screaming. By the way, I had this conversation over a bit of lunch today with some friends.

10:51And we were saying, they couldn't believe that 94, that Walter wasn't allowed on the pitch. which it wasn't. You know, and I think we played, it was 112. We played Mexico and Florida. It was 112 degrees at 12 o 'clock. Crikey. Well, I want to come back to the temperature and some of the conditions, because it will be a big factor. We've talked about the physicalities of these squads. But, of course, we've laid out the England parameters, and I'd say kind of caution with a little bit of worry as well. Johnny, the big question for Scotland, can they beat Haiti? Oh, dear. Too far? No. Too far. Too far.

11:27Too early, too early. Too early. Oh, too early. Sorry, sorry. I mean, there's can and there's will, isn't there? Yeah, Scotland. You've got big budget pairing at Wembley last time out. So, you know, we're in no position. Absolutely. No position to start making jokes about hating. But that's the key moment, isn't it, Johnny? That's the key for Scotland too. The draw's been set up for Scotland. It couldn't be better. You've got the... One win will probably take you through. It's in the opening game. I don't really fancy getting much out of Morocco or Brazil, but win that opening game and you've got a great chance.

11:58I think it could be one of the worst games of the World Cup. It's going to be pretty grim. And Steve Clark, he's been incredible for Scottish football. Incredible record of bringing us back to tournaments. But you have to be honest in saying tournaments he hasn't done well. He's been too cautious. He hasn't risen to the occasion. I'm still traumatised by the opening game of Euro 2024, which I was with the English press and stupidly wore my Scotland jersey and watched it in a German bar with English journalists and it was 3-0 to Florian Virts after about five minutes. I'd like to believe, I'm giving you another long answer, in my heart of hearts I don't think we will, that's years of pessimism.

12:46I think somehow the Scotland scenario would be a no-no draw with Haiti, lose to Morocco and then get a result against Brazil that doesn't count. That's the ultimate triumph and disaster encapsulated in one. I want to come back to England and the squads. A remarkable squad. I feel like every time I've worked in journalism and there's been an England squad for a major tournament, it's provided lots and lots of controversy and conversation. But I'd say this one is definitely right up there for the players that they've left behind as much as anything. Johnny, I'll come back to you first as the man who kind of wrote two contrasting pieces at the end of last week.

13:25We were talking about this, the initial kind of fury that was centred around Harry Maguire and a lot of fans and pundits being upset at some of the players left out. And then maybe a greater understanding once we heard from Thomas Tuchel. What's your assessment now of the squad that he's picked? Yeah, I mean, Thursday last week was a really dramatic day for us. We were getting all the names were starting to get leaked from basically players that were left out of the squad, starting with Harry Maguire going on social media, followed by his mum, followed by his brother followed by his wife not happy and on that Thursday you're digesting that Cole Palmer was out that Ivan Tony was in and it seemed I remember thinking oh my goodness where's this heading waking up on the Friday and then going along to see Tuchel at Wembley and reflecting on it I think Harry Maguire should have been in the squad I think he's had a fantastic season but he wouldn't be going as a starting centre-back he'd be going, we know what Tuchel's peck in order is it's Gehi and Konza so you're looking at, he's choosing a different fourth choice centre-back, the one I'd have picked same with Ivan Toney which makes sense when you think about it he's been playing in the heat, playing, almost living in a camp the entire time in Saudi which is very good at penalties as well good at penalties so that's a third choice strike and it doesn't seem so controversial there.

14:49I think what he's done, Tuchel's a very logical bloke. He's told us all along there's going to be two players per position, it was going to be a wild card in each department and he plays 4-3-3 so he's going to have a 9-7-7 squad, nine defenders, seven midfielders, seven attackers. And those three wild cards are Dan Byrne. Dan Byrne's your cheerleading centre-half. Eze to be a kind of wild card in midfield and Ivan Tony to be a special operations man, right? My issue with the squad is I don't think he has to he didn't have to take all of them but he's left Cole Palmer, Trent Alexander Arnold, Adam Morton behind and those are three players who can all just play that different sort of pass who can do that thing that the opposition aren't going to expect go outside the box a little bit and Martin's right, it's a squad based on physicality, it's quite a functional squad.

15:49I just wonder if it's lacking that little ingredient. And I asked Tuchel about that on Friday and he gave a fairly unconvincing answer where he said, oh, Rhys James can play a special pass and I can play John Stones in midfield. And that all started to get a bit nebulous. So yeah, that's my worry is, knockout game, England are struggling to break someone down and they don't have enough to send off the bench to change the game. Martin, Johnny talks there about Thomas Tuchel's justifications for this squad. Very striking in lots of his comments, as he often is in his press conferences, and as journalists we love that, so we hope he doesn't change.

16:26But he's set himself up in a way that if it goes wrong, there's going to be lots of fans, lots of people on this stage and in this audience who are going, why on earth did you leave Cole Palmer, Phil Foden, Trent at home? I totally get what Johnny says. I'm in quite a privileged position where I don't actually have to go and listen to the England manager. No, I know what you mean. Because there's not an England manager that I've ever seen who doesn't make sense when he's in front of you. It all makes sense when you're in front. So I didn't think Roy Hodgson should be England manager. I'll just go back a few years.

17:05I thought Roy's way of playing. I'm not sure Fabio made much sense. No, no, no. But sometimes he did. But what he did with, anyway, what he did with Giard and Lampard, I always thought was quite smart. But anyway, so I didn't think Roy should be the England manager. I think he's great for your life. I think he's great for Crystal Palace over there. It's all about a billion. Yeah, but I didn't think he would make a great England manager. But when you're sat in front of Roy, he's an old football man. And I like old football men because old football men have been around a lot and they talk a lot of sense.

17:40everything Roy said made a lot of sense you sat there and you looked at it it actually does make sense what he's saying and then and then and then

17:552016 we get beat by Iceland and you're sitting there thinking I was right all along I was right all along you know so since then I've been very very sparing on how much I sit there in front of England and just go, right, now, I'll just look at this from there. I won't necessarily... I'll read what the fella says. And you go, right, OK, that's your view, and this is mine.

18:23So, Sunday I was driving to... I can't remember what I was driving to, and there was a band. I was listening to a piece of music. It was by a group called Guests, an Australian band, a very good band, I'd highly recommend them. And there was a song called Make Something Happen, and the singer talks a lot of the lyrics and she said that there was a woman walking down the street, she had a T-shirt on and it said, make something happen. And I'm thinking, yeah, that's what I think is missing. That's why I'm not as keen on this squad as perhaps I would have been if I'm sitting in front of Thomas Tuchel, hearing him explain it, because I'm thinking, make something happen.

19:06who's going to make something happen and by make something happen I'm not thinking get Dan Burnham and we'll stick it in the mixer in the last two minutes and see if he can get his head on there, I'm thinking Cole Palmer Club World Cup in July, whatever you may or may not think of that tournament, I was there at that match PSG were playing seriously, they weren't a testimonial they were playing seriously and that's the best performance by an English player I've seen in the last year he scores the first two goals, he makes the third one and you just think, I know he hasn't done that much this season.

19:39I really do. We've got a month before we play our first game. Thomas Tuchel actually said that. And so you think, well, that's a month. He can rest. He can get used to your ideas. And he can get in the swim of this. And then maybe if he need it, he can make something happen. Martin, do you think Venables made sense? Because I've always thought Venables was an incredible... I always thought he made a lot of sense. I thought Gareth made a lot of sense. I know it's not everyone's favourite. I thought Gareth made a lot of sense because actually he was Terry's man in many ways. And so a lot of what he said was the same sort of logic you used to hear from Terry Venables, you know.

20:23And anyway. Tony, on Martin's point about the kind of make something happen versus the kind of pragmatism that Tuchel's talked about that Johnny's outlined, where do you stand on this squad? it's a really because I'm not quite sure what's the style of England I'm sort of going to wait and see I'm going to see it in the group stages they'll go three up front you know most definitely and who if it's Morgan Rogers or Bellingham who plays in behind so I sort of know the formation but I don't know how ambitious they're going to be with that formation because for me when I look at England because England are in a luxurious position they've always had great players always I could name two or three England teams that are exceptional from 1919 90 to going back to the 88 euros and beyond england have had great sides but i always feel like there's a pragmatic side to england where if you take the croatia game which england lost in 2018 that was a game that was to me typified england where they had the game a half time in the palms of their hands it was comfortable and if they kick on because all the best teams all the very best teams whether it's club football international football find another gear during a match and I don't see England doing that in the international games enough.

21:35Yeah, perfect time to bring Hamza in then because Hamza Martin suggested that maybe we'll be desperately turning to Dan Byrne and throwing long throws and long balls into the box. Tony says he's not sure about what England's identity will be tactically. Got any ideas for us? I think Tickle's been pretty clear about what he wants tactically. As mentioned earlier, athleticism is a key part of it and I think at that point it's also worth reflecting on the two Premier League teams that sort of really leaned into athleticism this season Arsenal and Tottenham. It can go both ways. If you over-prioritise one certain thing, as in anything, if you make a sandwich and you put too much cheese in it, it's not that nice because you don't taste your tomatoes in your lettuce.

22:14So if you over-emphasise physicality, then you are going to lose out on technical ability. So I think he's been very clear in what he wants. He wants a conventional number six, number eight that can do a bit of both in midfield, and then a number 10 that's close to Harry Kane. bring us that stay wide and are very direct. This is a key part. And if you go back to the March internationals, the first two matches, he criticised Marcus Rashford and Phil Foden for not running at their opposition fullback enough. So he has very clear principles. He wants the centre-backs to be fairly proactive in bringing the ball forwards, and Kane can do what he likes.

22:54So you have that there. I don't know if that will suit the World Cup just because these things are complex. You get trends and all these sort of things, which mean that you could have a body of work that is perfectly primed for 2025. But 2026, the picture has changed. And that sort of stuff we only learn when we're out there. Sorry, what was the... Sorry, just into... Because you left it open there as well. You're talking about some of the positions on the pitch. I think one of the interesting ones, maybe just to go along the line, is Morgan Rodgers or Jude Bellingham. Hamza, you talked about wingers there.

23:26Harry Kane can do what he likes. there is probably a question mark still over that key position, isn't there? Jude Bellingham or Morgan Rodgers. Tony? Well, it's easy. When you're out in the camp, you see who's playing the best football. Yeah, but who would you pick now, Tony? Well, it changes. I mean, how many times I've got, a few times I've been to World Cups. No, I went to Italy and Bialy was the number one sent forward. Two games in, Scalacci's playing. You know, so you've got to look at players and how they're performing in training. If you said to me today, it's obvious that Morgan Rodgers would be in front of Bellingham.

23:58But that might not be the case you'd get to America. You'd play one game and suddenly the man is just thinking, I might have to change this around slightly. Because you don't get two or three games in a World Cup of not playing well. Johnny, Martin, quickly on pick Morgan Rodgers or Jude Bellingham. Look, I think he will pick Morgan Rodgers, first of all. I think if I was him, I would do that too. but for the reasons being that, as I said earlier, England in the autumn were as good as they've been. But they haven't been good either side of that. And I think he needs to go back to what that plan was, make that work.

24:35Jude Bellingham's a better player. Jude Bellingham's got a higher ceiling, much more special player. But I think actually because the March International didn't go too well, England need to get back to that peak Thomas Tuchel, England that we've seen so far. Rogers with Rice and Anderson work really well together start with that but throughout the tournament I think your ambition is to upgrade and get Jude Bellingham into the team and he is we've been talking about moments make something happen Jude Bellingham is that player This is fascinating because you have most people that follow England believe that Morgan Rogers will start but also believe that Jude Bellingham will start later on in the tournament which makes you sort of why bother with this whole pretense right just commit to what we expect is going to be the line up but yeah it's bizarre Is that a loyalty thing then do we think he's been loyal to Morgan Rodgers so far is that a problem with Jude Bellingham why would that be the case Well it's the seasons as well they've had Tom Jude's unfortunately for him been injured and it's been difficult around Madrid and Morgan Rodgers had a great season with Villa and they've won a trophy and he's shot at that period We can't hide from the fact that Bellingham and Kane haven't played very well together.

25:51We saw that in the Euros they hardly passed to each other, they were in each other's space One of the things I would have expected Tuchel to figure out was how to play them together and he hasn't done that two years have passed and we're nowhere nearer to the answer but Morgan Rodgers does work very well with Harry Kane and this is Harry Kane's team we can talk about other players but Thomas Tuchel's man is Harry Kane his second most important player is Declan Rice if he was here that's what he'd tell you so he's working the team out on that basis and the player in between Declan Rice and Harry Kane I think in the first off is going to be the one that connects him best which is Morgan Rodgers

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28:20I think that the problem When we were talking about Where do you think England Should get to Or what What we haven't What we're getting away from it Is the point that John made About why the FA Appointed Thomas Tuchel And they appointed Thomas Tuchel Because they thought they had a World Cup winning squad or World Cup winning team in all but name, in all but actually holding the trophy and saying, look, we've got the best players in the world, best players in the world. So they didn't think they could get over the line. They've appointed a gun coach. They've appointed someone to come in and that was the job, short-term contract, win the World Cup.

29:06We've sort of moved away from it now because they've extended the contract and now we're talking about what would constitute success. Well, actually, that wasn't the remit. The remit was what constituted success is that there's a trophy and it's ours. And you do wonder if when they had sat down originally with Thomas Tuchel and said, we think we've got a World Cup winning squad, what would you do with them? And if he said, well, I'd drop most of them, that's what I'd do. I wouldn't take this one, I wouldn't take Cole Palmer, I wouldn't take Trent Alexander-Arnold, I wouldn't take Phil Foden and Drew Bellingham's on the bench.

29:50Whether they would say, Gareth, hello, Gareth. We've made a terrible mistake. Do you know what I mean? Look, I just thought, I'll tell you what I thought would happen with Thomas Tuchel. I thought that I would do what I always do when England appoint a former manager, say that this is not what international sport is meant to be about, it's meant to be the best of ours against the best of theirs, and that's what I've always thought, that's what I really strongly believe. And then what I thought would happen, is what often happens, is the guy would turn up and I would actually like what he did. I wouldn't agree with the appointment necessarily, but I would like what he did.

30:35I did like a lot of what Fabio did. He lost his mind when we actually got to the World Cup, which was strange because until then, he'd been fantastic. What he did with Heskey and Rooney, what he did with Lampard and Gerrard, where he played them in the field, but not in a way that they were under each other's feet. We qualified, as Thomas Tuchel has done, fantastically, got to the World Cup, lost his mind. But most of the time, I was thinking, this is a guy, this guy's smart. I don't agree with the appointment, but that's a FA criticism. Don't blame the guy for it. And that's what I thought would happen with Tuchel.

31:15So I am more surprised, I can assure you, that anyone in this room not to like the squad, not to like the direction it's going. I'm really, really surprised. And my worry about the earlier internationals is if you look at our qualifying group, the next time there is a European qualifier, a UEFA qualifier, Latvia and Andorra won't even be in it because they're changing the format and that very bottom tier wants a separate competition. Albania, I think, will be the third tier. Serbia will be the second tier. So if you would join a full line, if anyone hears a racing into their horse racing or whatever, if you were drawing a form line, the form line from our qualifying group to now, you wouldn't be putting anything on those races.

32:15You wouldn't be looking at those races and looking at that field, seeing the favourite and who it's beat and thinking, oh, well, this is a good horse. But in terms of that form line then going even further back then and talking about Gareth Southgate and the past Euros as well, that was maybe the best example of Gareth Southgate losing all of those things that Thomas Tuchel is talking about, clarity of thought and vision and that was the ultimate Johnny, wasn't it, of that Southgate era where, you know, losing his mind, to use your phrase Martin in terms of, he had all the stars, Gareth Southgate at that World Cup, he had the Euros and he threw them all on the pitch and he hoped for the best Trent Alexander-Arnold got number 8 and suddenly became a central midfielder Phil Foden, Jude Bellingham and Cole Palmer all on the pitch and he went, come on, this has got to work hasn't it and it didn't so that would be the counter to Martin's point and to a lot of people being upset about these lack of stars yeah I mean and Gareth wasn't always like that but that's the point he ended up at just try to play all the best players and in fact try and play all the best number 10s and work out a position for them in the middle of the game and if it's not working just play them again and I don't know what I mean I still don't know what happened to Gareth I've bought his book been to a stage show and I still can't understand what his thought process was during that tournament.

33:30So I think that if the one thing that Tuchel has done really, really well is this clarity, and he has got away from the idea that all the stars have to play all the time, and I felt that's been, you know, going back to Sven and Lampard, Gerrard, Beckham, Scholes, you know, four brilliant midfielders but not a midfield, not a brilliant midfield. So I think some England manager had to come along and do that, and Tuchel's done that. But to Martin's point, I recognise that if you do have Jude Bellingham and Cole Palmer and Phil Foden, you can't not play any of them. You do need to play some of them.

34:09I mean, as ever with England debates, we've managed to talk about just the team selection for most of this event already. Let's broaden it out. Tony, you've been to two World Cups. In terms of some of the other teams, I was thinking rather ominously about France when I saw their squad. You followed French football quite a lot, having played there yourself. When you look at the French squad, you kind of start going, actually, England might be scary. Yeah. I'm loving the fact that N 'Golo Kante has made the squad. Yeah. I think it's really interesting, and this reverts to, you can go to England as well and Brazil, that they've all selected a big centre forward.

34:43Like Ivan Toney, the target man, Mateta, has been selected by France. Thiago's been selected by Brazil. Pedro was left out in Chelsea. I find that really interesting. and they've all opted for that direct centre-forward leader line. So it's not just Dan Byrne. We are going to all stick it in the mix. I've made that really interesting. But the French have got a scary team, especially in the forward line areas. And Dwayne's a great player, Baccarlo, another one. I don't know how Dembele is at the moment because there's a talk that he's had a bad injury, but we'll see. They've got great players all over the pitch with the French team.

35:18I think Spanish could have had them in as well as a really dangerous side, especially from the European perspective but the French will be a danger I mean we ain't even mentioned I don't think I've heard and this is a conversation again you had on the side not many people have talked about Mbappe he's been sort of the forgotten man even though he's a world star but he was the guy that got a trick in a World Cup in 2018 and he should be at his peak had a goal of game record at Real Madrid and yet there seems to be all problems at Real Madrid and Mbappe's the biggest problem he can turn up for France and Deschamps made him play in different positions over the years he's played him as a centre forward and he's played him as a left winger and that's been a bit of an issue between the two of them Hamza you're going to be with Johnny and Matt Lawton in the England camp but when you've got a second in between your busy working days what other matches and other teams and other players are you excited to watch?

36:16Oh I didn't get much thought of that all my focus has been on England That Lionel Messi works quite good actually that is one of the so I everyone here has actually had the privilege of watching Lionel Messi live Cristiano Ronaldo live players like that I've never seen Messi live I've watched him on TV but I've not seen him in the flesh if I that would be the one thing that I'd really like to see getting up close to Messi or Ronaldo when Ronaldo returned to the Premier League he was meant to play at Anfield but he couldn't because of a personal family issue. So he couldn't play that day. So that meant I've still not seen Ronaldo.

36:57So yeah, I'd like to see Portugal though, to be honest. It was really interesting Euro 2024 watching them play with Ronaldo and him not meshing with the rest of the team. In some ways it reflected quite poorly on him. But they do have a fantastic group of players. You've got the PSG midfielders, you've got Bruno Fernandes, you've got Bernardo Silva. Immense technical quality, physical quality as well good set piece coach I think they're a really well-rounded team and I think they could pose a lot of problems for most other opponents Johnny you are allowed to say this is the Scott McTominay World Cup but as well as Scotland and Super Scott what about the other teams that you're hoping to catch a glimpse of?

37:38Yeah I mean I was going to mention Portugal because I mean they have got an abundance of talent some stinkers though I mean some really bad groups so there's a lot I'm not looking forward to Group B if you haven't had a look at it that's when you go make a cup of tea I mean Norway I'm fascinated to see how Haaland will get on obviously I think Japan from what we saw at Wembley if you're looking for a side that are a proper team not stars, Matoma's not going to play but what a good team they are, they could do well and we are excited for Scott McTominay on the world stage aren't we, come on, the guy's been put on a 20 pound note this week yeah he's scored one of the great all time qualifying goals in football ever in that overhead kick one of four amazing goals that night yeah John McGinn you know bossing a World Cup it's going to happen Lauren Shantland's had a good season yeah Craig Gordon you know still going 43 is it 43 did Grant Hanley make the squad Grant Hanley has made the squad the only reason I ask you is because there's one narrative that I love across all sports it's the older veteran trying to roll back the years and you do have that with Messi and Ronaldo and Ingeco as well for Bosnia but I always love trying to see those players eke out one more World Cup and of course Neymar as well being selected for Brazil is an amazing story I was going to say I mean Ancelotti and Martin has a great insight into Ancelotti but him with Brazil is going to be fascinating either way people have written off Brazil just because you look at the names and they're not the Brazilian team of the past but Carlo Ancelotti in charge of a team They're forward-loving.

39:18Vinicius Junior, Rafinha. You know, you look at them two, they're two element strikers. Paquetta's in that squad as well. I mean, Martin's rest of them with Paquetta. But they've got some element of players. And it'd be interesting to see where Neymar plays, because you can't play him, I don't believe, now at 34 on the wing, because he'll probably play the 10-roll if he gets in. It'd be an impact sub, like Jude Bellingham. All the superstars would be impact subs. Martin, Johnny mentioned it there, Carlo Ancinotti, a man you know well. It's fascinating to see him at a World Cup. because we know so much from the club game.

39:48Will he be able to maintain his cool on the touchline? That's the key thing. One eyebrow raised and the ball comes flying to the walls, he will kill it in the air and just roll it back, as he always does. Absolutely fantastic. See, the great thing with the World Cup is that it can come from anywhere. You can sit there going, oh, I'm looking forward to this player or that player, this team or that team. But it can come from anywhere. The first one I did was 94, so it was 32 years ago now. And I was like the afterthought, basically. I wasn't meant to go. I wasn't going. I got offered a job at another newspaper and, you know, they wanted to keep me.

40:28And I said, well, it's pointless. You're not even sending me to the World Cup. Do you want to go to the World Cup? You can go to the World Cup. Of course you can go to the World Cup. But there was absolutely no matches left at all, really, that were any good. So I was like the afterthought and I just did whatever anyone else didn't want to do. So I spent a lot of time watching Bulgaria. And the great thing was, Bulgaria were fantastic. They knocked Germany out of the quarterfinals, if you remember that World Cup. Stoichkov, Lechkov. And they were great fun as well because the players just wanted to hit Manhattan and just have a session.

41:06And suddenly the federation realised they could actually win it. and so there was this massive barney about where they stayed because they wanted to stay in the centre of town and the federation wanted to put them out in New Jersey next to the stadium. They were brilliant fun to watch Bulgaria. So it was a sort of lesson, really, that you can't judge it. You can't judge it. It could come from anywhere there, like when Senegal beat France in 2002, it could come from absolutely anywhere. Yeah, talking of good nights out at World Cups, Tony Cascarino is grinning at me from the other side. Had some good times with Ireland, didn't you, down the years, Tony?

41:45Yeah, probably more so in Italy, because Jack was really relaxed in Italy, but he was very stressed in America. He always used to say, we arrived in Palermo in Sicily, and we all said to Jack, oh, Jack, we're going to go and play Paul and Billiards. And he looked at us and said, in Palermo? You can have a snook of war? yeah Jack he knew he knew we was all going out for a drink oh that was Covid was it right yeah Jack didn't mind Jack would say if you came up to you sitting at the meal table and you were sitting and you had a glass of Coke he'd say get rid of that I'd rather you have a beer and he meant it you know he was that he was that focused on he thought all the fizzy pot drinks were disastrous but he didn't mind you have a beer he always used to say to us you turn up fit you'll go back fit but in between you're going to enjoy it as well sometimes it went a bit too far quarter final of the World Cup night before we played Italy he called a meeting and he said he said right you're playing Italy in Rome in their own backyard he said the referee won't give you a thing and you'll get knocked out that was his team talk so have a few pints of Guinness tonight because two kegs of Guinness turned up at our hotel so we all ended up playing games and we got the police out the Italian police were all having this really great fun night but his argument afterwards because I said to him years later about why did you do that before the court final Jack and he said I didn't want you taking sleeping tablets I knew if you had a good few beers you'd all have a good sleep you'll play an 8 o 'clock the next night you'll have a good walk in the morning blah blah blah that was Jack and he got the best out of us in some bizarre way sometimes it was too much it was incredibly funny yeah He never bought a drink, Jack.

43:38We'd go to Ireland, we'd go to the Currah, and on the way back, Jack, we'd start singing, we love you, Jackie, we do. We were all at the back of the bus, we love you, Jackie. And he'd get on the microphone and go, we're not stopping at the pub. We'd all go, we love you, Jackie, we do. Then he'd go, all right, but I'm not buying a drink. And we was in the pub. Sky in the World Cup before the World Cup. Safe to say, Johnny, the England preparations will be slightly different. It wasn't the preparation I'd recommend. To Tony, Cascarino and Ireland back in the day. And so much will be put on the climate, the conditions that we're going to see across all three countries as well.

44:21This is going to play a big part. And England have been doing, and all teams have been doing a huge amount to prepare for that, haven't they? Yeah, I mean, they never have gone full on British Olympics, marginal gains on this one. that sounds good we were the best prepared team we were the best prepared team it was under Roy we were going to be the best prepared team at the World Cup we fly into Florida, it's hurricane season it's the only thing we haven't really factored in the first game the training session gets called off because it's a tropical storm the match gets delayed for two hours because we're the best prepared team but we hadn't factored in hurricane season in Florida.

45:06A good six days of that World Cup. Six days, yeah. Oh yeah, we were home before we'd finished taking our malaria tablets. Well, we'll be hoping to avoid that this time. England are going to be the best prepared team in this World Cup. What could possibly go? I mean, Tuchel, he's been thinking, talking about this since he took over, basically. He's had them in heat tents pedalling bikes in Spain, swallowing biometric pills, which have got a little thermometer inside a pill, and you swallow it and it gives the data of what your internal body temperature is to the sports scientists. Did you help your pass?

45:48Well, the idea being that every player is different and this is going to be bespoke for every footballer. He's set great store by the base being in the middle of America, Kansas City minimises the amount of time you're crossing time zones. The hotel is going to get kitted out in a home-from-home way for England. They think they've got a great advantage because they've found one of the small hotels in Kansas and not a big American 400-room place with elevators. So they think by having a homely place where players can go for a walk in the garden, it's going to help them. And I mean, you know, it's not going to...

46:32Tony's laughing at you down the end. Well, just give him a pint for God's sake. Can I just get... No, John, it's quite weird sometimes because it's... The players, and I've spoke to a few that have played World Cups of different countries, and it's quite bizarre that we always think the English team or the British Isles or the island do things the wrong way sometimes, which is true. But when Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia, the night afterwards, and they lost, they had a party, like a gathering and getting together, a bonding, and said, we're going to have to try and make the very best of it. You know, enjoying the experience.

47:09I mean, it flashed by. The two World Cups, being there, it just flashed by. But you must be. And these boys will remember South Africa or England. Awful. Awful. And the lads just hated it. And we might go, well, you don't want to be a prison. You want to be free and just feel like you can play your best football. I was just about to say that 2014 in Brazil, the hotel that I was staying in was, I think it was Team B. Whoever was in Rio, it was the Team B stayed at this hotel that I was in. And the huge cavernous room that was the restaurant just off the main lobby, big place, quiet, very, very quiet most nights.

47:54Came down one night, I'd been working in a room, came down one night, the lift doors opened and it was like everyone's got kids or a wacky warehouse or you've been in a wacky warehouse or one of those like adventure park ballpark type thing it was like one of those but on laughing gas and it was mental absolutely crazy and and that's the restaurant and it was chilly and chilly in the restaurant all their wives and girlfriends are in there gorgeous looking women, sashing up to the bar to get another caiprina. There's kids going mad, doing somersaults and tricks and riding each other like horses and stuff.

48:35The coach of Sampooli is in the middle of it with about four mates. He's got the biggest lardy on you've ever seen. He's got his feet on the table. And it's madness around him. They've had a team meeting in level minus one. has gone midnight this team meeting Alexis Sanchez is running for the lift still eating dessert it's like 5 past 12 and I'm looking at this and I'm thinking this could never be us, we would never ever feel so relaxed in these surroundings and being here this would never be us they beat Spain 2-0 the following night the world champions they beat them 2-0 not saying they won the world cup but they beat Spain 2-0.

49:21And at the same time, I think we were having that sort of organised fun that we have, where we have a march along the beach, supposedly relaxed, surrounded by photographers, at the end of it, Gary Nibble tells someone to f-off, and it ends in utter chaos. And I just looked at the two cultures and just thought, no matter So how much we try to create these sort of, it's not us. It's not what comes naturally to us. It's a great shame. Absolutely. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll have to leave it there. We will be milling around after the event. But thank you so much for joining us for this evening's event.

50:03Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

50:12That was a recording of our live World Cup preview show here at the Times Building in London. our thanks to all of those of you who came along in the audience and to Martin, Johnny, Tony and Hamza we have our Big Scotland preview and then on Friday morning the first of our daily World Cup briefings we'll be with you every single day of the tournament looking at the games from overnight the performances, the injuries, the news stories, the tactics and the atmosphere and looking ahead to the games to come make sure you join us for your regular morning update we hope to see you then

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